who's raising money for the 1.2 million massacred iraqis?

We drove past Fort Lejeune on our way to the beach last week--there were a couple miles of sheets and posters on the fence for loved ones in Iraq. It choked up a cynical person like myself.

Of course, I can't even imagine 1,000,000 dead. How big would that memorial have to be?

Agree 100% with you on that John. All GI's need to be allowed give their voices on the war, whether they support or it not.

I hope C&L will have the video.
Pelosi to Blitzer: ... adding condescendingly "for those who pay attention" the Democrats will "hold this administration accountable, time and time again for the conduct of this war."
http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=7673

hadenuf @ 7:

I hope C&L will have the video.
Pelosi to Blitzer: ... adding condescendingly "for those who pay attention" the Democrats will "hold this administration accountable, time and time again for the conduct of this war."
http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=7673

...by sending a strongly worded email to the White House.

They are very brave men who spoke on behalf of all of us.
Thank you.

Unlike Cheney who spoke recently to graduates at the United States Military Academy commencement, referred to the soldier's oath, and did not even know the words to it.
http://antiwar.com/henderson/?articleid=11047

Make no mistake, the Soldiers do not support Cheney.

They are doing their own investigations too.
They are keeping track for when the Dick Cheney trial starts.

Just look who is still supporting Cheney - and they will find some more co-conspirators to the worst policy and events in American History; Blackwater, American Enterprise Inst, Pat Robertson, Family Research Council, Project For a New Century, etc...

Heres "another one" to add to the list

Cheney is preparing to speak to a fake political front christian group in Utah on Friday
The Council for National Policy was founded in 1981 by
--> Rev. Tim LaHaye (author of the “Left Behind” War Killing Game series)
and Paul Weyrich (who helped found the Heritage Foundation).
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/26/cheney-bunker/

ysbaddaden @ 10:

Blue Buddha @ 9:

hadenuf @ 7:

I hope C&L will have the video.
Pelosi to Blitzer: ... adding condescendingly "for those who pay attention" the Democrats will "hold this administration accountable, time and time again for the conduct of this war."
http://rawstory.com//printstory.php?story=7673

...by sending a strongly worded email to the White House.

The WH will just lose it.

No, they will DELETE it. The media will claim that they lost it.

Thank you so much Logan for giving this endeavor your support.

I also want to thank everyone who has donated so far, I've just got word from Mike that in the last half hour alone we've pulled in about $210, which is simply awesome. After only having this drive up for a little over a day, we're already about a third of the way to our goal, so you people are really making it happen!

Support people that kill in our name? NO!

We were accused of spitting on the soldiers returning from Viet Nam. Despite that being a lie, too many anti-war folks have bent over backwards to support the troops and oppose the war. I cannot do both.

You cannot have a war without soldiers.

If your parents lived through Buchenwald and Auschwitz, you have a hard time calling the 'service' by Wehrmacht soldiers 'honorable', 'heroic', etc. Participating in a war crime of massive proportions isn't 'heroic' despite all the gung-ho jabber about 'seeing the mission through'.

The 'mission' is imprisoning over 20,000 Iraqi males in concentration camps. Oops..sorry. 'Detention centers'. No charges, no suspicions, just that good ol' Ariel Sharon-style 'living while Arab' charge hanging over their heads. Nice mission our 'heroes' are worshipping.

The 'mission' is carpet bombing from 30,000 feet. Children are vaporised, their parents given a $500 check for the loss. 'Heroic' indeed.

Uh, are we going to idolize the bomber pilots, too? Remember the guncam videos of farmers being blown apart by some Texan moron with a snootful of uppers and a moral compass the size of an amoeba? Are the helicopter door gunners (who spray anything living with .50 cal, when a roadside bomb goes off below them) 'heroes' too?

Let me get this right, so I know where to arrange myself in the Nancy Pelosi/AIPAC/DLC lib'rul conga line. The CO's who go to jail rather than fight in an immoral scheme of genocide....they're 'heroes' because they sacrifice themselves rather than kill Iraqi civilians or help The Machine do so via their participation in support roles. The soldier who refuses to shoot at the Russian partisans, or the Ukrainian village's terrified Jews, or the Yugoslav hostages...he's a hero because he's saying no to crimes against humanity.

But then we have some elements inside the anti-genocide movement who want it BOTH ways...support the troops who don't kill, and who don't work to prop up the killing machine, and then support the troops who DO.

How does that work, exactly? I guess Ron Reagan was right when he placed the wreath at the SS boneyard at Bitburg? Funny...the B'nai B'rith didn't think so, at the time.

Tell me, 'Logan Murphy', can you really look at the photos of lakes of blood in Iraqi streets, and read about U.S. snipers 'baiting' their victims with valuable goods that any impoverish person would take in order to sell in the souk, and still bring yourself to call the perpetrators 'heroes'?

You can read about the c-h-o-l-e-r-a that Herr Bushler has finally brought to B-dad, and the misnamed 'depleted' uranium dust that covers Iraq and causes horrific birth defects....you can look at all that carnage, and you can lavish your fawning, love-to-be-loved adoration on 'the troops' who've BROUGHT that mass murder and torture to their victims?

I wonder how many Code Mauve trewpluvrz can even remember the names of the Abu Ghraib torturers? How many from the 'support the troops' brigade bother themselves with Sy Hersh's warning that crimes even more ghastly than mere murder-by-beating and murder-by-asphyxiation occurred in Abu G? No doubt one can have a more pleasant, Pollyanna life, though, if one forgets that according to Nuremberg everyone who obeys an illegal/immoral order is a war criminal.

I suspect that 'Logan Murphy' and the rest of the enablers would have showered LT. William Calley (My Lai) with their adoring kisses, too. That's what makes going to war so attractive, for the hormone-addled 19 year-old kid. The Lancet can tell the Uninformed Left that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died because the USA has invaded and occupied their country, destroyed the water and electrical infrastructure, and the Loving Left will still tell Junior Gunslinger that he's their 'hero'. Yes, we're really going to stop the Pentagon's killing machine THAT way....

The Amy Goodmans will always make themselves forget the Hadithas and Fallujahs and Abu Ghraibs, so that the Mushy-Centered Left can go on pretending it's friends with everyone. Kumbaya, Lord, Kumbaya....

They are very brave men who spoke on behalf of all of us.
Thank you.

Unlike Cheney who spoke recently to graduates at the United States Military Academy commencement, referred to the soldier's oath, and did not even know the words to it.
http://antiwar.com/henderson/?articleid=11047

Make no mistake, the Soldiers do not support Cheney.

They are doing their own investigations too.

Just look who is still supporting Cheney - and they will find some more co-conspirators to the worst policy and event disasters in American History; Blackwater, American Enterprise Inst, Pat Robertson, Family Research Council, Project For a New Century, etc...

Heres "another one" to add to the list

Cheney is preparing to speak to a fake political front christian group in Utah on Friday
The Council for National Policy was founded in 1981 by
--> Rev. Tim LaHaye (author of the “Left Behind” War Killing Game series)
and Paul Weyrich (who helped found the Heritage Foundation).
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/26/cheney-bunker/

Domino @ 16:

Support people that kill in our name? NO!

We were accused of spitting on the soldiers returning from Viet Nam. Despite that being a lie, too many anti-war folks have bent over backwards to support the troops and oppose the war. I cannot do both.

You cannot have a war without soldiers.

You can't start a war without propaganda. Spoonfulls of lies and distortion about phony 9/11-Saddam links fed to our nation's soldiers who signed up to protect the country. They never wanted to be foreign occupiers. Most of them don't want to be in Iraq. They don't have a choice. Don't you understand that?

equilibrio @ 22:

joe @ 21:

Domino @ 16:

Support people that kill in our name? NO!

We were accused of spitting on the soldiers returning from Viet Nam. Despite that being a lie, too many anti-war folks have bent over backwards to support the troops and oppose the war. I cannot do both.

You cannot have a war without soldiers.

You can't start a war without propaganda. Spoonfulls of lies and distortion about phony 9/11-Saddam links fed to our nation's soldiers who signed up to protect the country. They never wanted to be foreign occupiers. Most of them don't want to be in Iraq. They don't have a choice. Don't you understand that?

Where did Lt. Watada's choice come from?

Ok you have a point.

He had a choice to either serve his mission in Iraq or face 10 years behind bars, have his honor stripped from the military, and be shamed for life by all the people who ever knew him and respected him.

Choosing on whether to finance or mortgage your estate is a choice. You could say he pretty much threw his life away to stand up for what he believed in. It's disengenuous to say he had simply had a choice.

kudos to the bloggers

Deighved H Stern MD @ 26:

I do not wish to honor their service, nor do I feel compelled to do so. I am however ashamed to admit that I carry no moral authority to do such a thing, and I am compelled to offer my deepest and sincerest apologies to these soldiers and their brethren at home and abroad for this failure. I am deeply sorry to admit that I am among the throngs of American Civilians who have failed to muster the kind intelligence, courage, and commitment that would even come close to earning theirs.

Had I personally committed to this country on that level, had the vast majority of peace-loving and truth loving Americans committed to this country, we would have found a way to stop the madness of this war before it started. It was obvious that the entire charade was based on lies from the start, and had I/we recognized and admitted that, and committed to doing something loud, forceful, and risky to stop it, perhaps this sad thread would not exist.

This failure is not limited to this war; it did not even start in this century -- it goes back at least 40 years, and amounts to a voluntary abdication of responsibility and authority to the rich and powerful in exchange for a shrinking dole of creature comforts, the illusion of security, and a temporary reprieve from the "heavy lifting" of democracy. We have fallen for the same lies over and over, then acted surprised when we can no longer run fast enough to avoid the truth -- if we can even muster the courage to admit that, even to ourselves.

I am saddened deeply by the loss of these young soldiers, and the death and disfigurement of so many others in this illegal and immoral war into which we allowed "our" leaders to throw them. I am sickened and ashamed to say that I am not worthy of their devotion.

But I am compelled to state publicly that I will keep trying and I hope one day to earn that sacrifice by restoring the idea and reality of the nation they were so committed to.

It all starts with asking myself -- asking ourselves -- am I doing enough? If soldiers willingly put their lives on the line, is it too much to ask that I risk making people uncomfortable at a dinner party, or losing a little business, by making my own commitment clear and unambiguous in all facets of life?

Am I willing to make it clear to those who seek my vote that not only does the cost of "a little bit of liberty for a little more security" not fly with me, but it is repulsive in the extreme?

Am I willing to make a statement with my wallet, with my travel, with my own activities that reflects sufficient honor to warrant this gift?

Am I willing to exercise the kind of intellectual discipline necessary to relentlessly pursue these goals, and do I have enough courage to confront power with the truths that discipline unveils, without flinching? Do I have the attention span necessary to keep my eye on the ball, and help others do the same while the oppositions seeks to obfuscate, intimidate, and distract me with non-sequitirs, threats, and all the various tools of the trade?

To put it in perspective, if we allow soldiers to die ostensibly for our freedoms, is it too much to ask that we live, eat, and breathe with a commitment to those freedoms every day, and to take small risks in our lives toward making and/or keeping them real?

It is not, and I will.

did you write that yourself?? it sent chills down my spine..

awesome post

Deighved H Stern MD @ 28:

joe @ 27:

did you write that yourself?? it sent chills down my spine..

awesome post

Yes - on the fly with feeling, which is why it kind of rambles And thanks.
I'll keep trying to find a way to help better than I have been.

The way it reads sounds like speaking out of the heart instead of the ego. I think only a dying breed who can harness that ability anymore. You should be a writer, that's for sure. C&L needs to post that on the homepage!

I don't support the troops. If they protected and defending the U.S. Constitution by bringing every Republican and Democrat in the Tyrannical U.S. Govenment to justice, then I would support them. There is no freedom without the freedom to say no. regards

Also, as Lt. Watada was about to give his speech at the VFP convention, much to the lieutenant's surprise, about 50 members of the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] went on that stage to stand behind Watada to express their solidarity for the stand that he was taking against this most unnecessary war. One can bet the farm that he has their respect and others in the military also for refusing to be a part of the occupation and brutalization and terrorizing of the Iraqi people.

Erroll @ 34:

Joe @#22-

You claim that Lt. Watada will "... be shamed for life by all the people who ever knew and respected him." That statement, my friend, is simply garbage. You may want to try doing a little research before spouting such fiction. You can begin by reading David Cortright's classic work "Soldiers in Revolt-GI Resistance During the Vietnam War" which, as the title and subtitle state, details how and why the GI Movement took place and by whom. Those who took part in that most noble activity were chronicled in the 2006 documentary Sir! No Sir! which explained how the Movement began and what motivated those courageous military personnel to speak out against that illegal and immoral war.

If you had actually bothered to see this incredibly moving film, which undoubtedly inspired Lt. Watada to speak out, you would have seen and heard former Green Beret Donald Duncan quietly state that "I was doing it right but I wasn't doing right." You would have seen and heard David Cline, who just recently passed away from the effects of Agent Orange which he suffered from while in the jungles of Vietnam in 1967 [Dave was also a long time member of the VVAW-Vietnam Veterans Against the War and former president of Veterans for Peace] say "Your silence [referring to those in the military] is keeping that lie going." One would have seen and heard Dr. Howard Levy explain why he served three years in jail rather than be part of American militarism. It is extremely doubtful if he would believe your drivel that "... he pretty much threw his life away for what he believed in." You would have seen and heard other courageous soldiers and sailors, marines and airmen explain why they had the bravery to act upon their convictions. You would have seen and heard from a former black soldier why he and other black soldiers were beaten outside a military installation for extremely specious reasons because they had the audacity to question authority.

You seem to naively and bizarrely believe that Lt. Watada is not somehow aware of what may happen to him because of the stand that he has taken. You may try reading the speech that he had given in front of myself and other veterans in Seattle in 2006 at the Veterans for Peace convention who, despite your misguided belief, had nothing but respect and admiration for the lieutenant for speaking out against this idiotic, illegal and immoral war. As the lieutenant told the veterans that night:

"Today, I speak with you about a radical idea. It is one born from the very concept of the American soldier [or service member]. It became instrumental in ending the Vietnam War-but it has been long since forgotten. The idea is this: that to stop an illegal and unjust war, the soldiers can choose to stop fighting it."

He went on to say "Now it is not an easy task for the soldier. For he or she must be aware that they are being used for ill-gain. They must hold themselves responsible for individual action. They must remember duty to the Constitution and the people supersedes the ideologies of their leadership. The soldier must be willing to face ostracism by their peers [and, apparently, by people like Joe], worry over the survival of their families, and of course the loss of personal freedom. They must know that resisting an authoritarian government at home is equally important to fighting a foreign aggressor on the battlefield. Finally, those wearing the uniform must know beyond any shadow of a doubt that by refusing immoral and illegal orders they will be supported by the people not with mere words but by action [but not, presumably, by pseudo liberals like Joe]."

Watada reminded we veterans that "The American soldier must rise above the socialization that tells them authority should always be obeyed without question [absolutely correct]. Rank should be respected but never blindly obeyed [see Sir! No Sir! for confirmation of this fact]. Awareness of the history of atrocities and destruction committed in the name of America-either through direct military intervention or by proxy war-is crucial. They must realize that this is a war not out of self-defense but by choice, for profit and imperialistic domination."

Watada recalled the words of a former literary icon: "Mark Twain once remarked, 'Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country...' By this, each and every American soldier, marine, airman, and sailor is responsible for their choices and their actions. The freedom to choose is only one that we can deny ourselves."

The lieutenant went on to remind us that "The oath we take swears allegiance not to one man but to a document of principles and laws designed to protect the people. Enlisting in the military does not relinquish one's right to seek the truth-neither does it excuse one from rational thought nor the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. 'I was only following orders" is never an excuse.

There is not one superfluous word in that above excerpted speech that the lieutenant gave. It is instructive to remember that claiming they were only following orders did not prevent German officials and soldiers from being hanged at Nuremberg following World War II.

This is why, despite what Joe believes, many veterans and others have greatly admired and respected what Watada is doing. Because they simply realize that the lieutenant is doing, like those who participate in the GI Movement during the Vietnam War, the right thing, in spite of the consequences that it may entail which, as he stated, he is most fully aware.

what you are really saying is the soldier makes a sacrifice either way, He says no to the war, he goes to jail, he says yes to the war, he makes it thru, and its another person that purchased the right to say "HEY ITS SUcks Over there, and you civilians still ain't done Squat to change anything"

Heinlien discussed in the book Starship Trooper, that the only people who deserve to vote are those thaat purchased their franchise by service to the country, by putting the ideas of sacrifice for the common good above personal gain.

Right now its up to you citizens to get a court ruling that the war is illegal, that the war is a cause of impeachment, that the war violates the resolutions created by your government.

Until then the military is following the orders of civilians...who still don't "Get it"

Watada sacrificed himself in the hope that a legal system any jurisdiction in the U.S. would declare the Iraq war patently illegal.

He could have recieved an administrative discharge, and faded away quitely, but he went to that martyr spot in the sky, whish is why soldiers are waiting after they pulled thier time in Iraq to speak out.

If they did anything other than that, they would get crushed by the system.

Just Like LT W.

#35-duncanidho

I certainly agree that "... its up to you citizens to get a court ruling that the war is illegal..." But the Democrats, that alleged antiwar party, seem unable or unwilling to make it happen. But you are wrong when you say that "... he [Lt. Watada] went to that martyr spot in the sky..." The lieutenant's second court-martial is set for Oct. 9, because his first court-martial ended in a mistrial, when the judge tried to claim that Watada did not somehow understand the stipulation that he had previously signed with the court. You make it seem as if he has already been convicted, which is not the case at all.

You go on to say that "... whish [sic] is why soldiers are waiting after they pulled thier [sic] time in Iraq to speak out." That statement is also incorrect, as evidenced by the members of the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] who have, despite your assertion, indeed been speaking out against the war. A case in point is Camilo Mejia, who spoke out against the occupation because of the atrocities that he witnessed and courageously went to jail for nine months because of his beliefs.

You also say "If they did anything other than that, they would get crushed by the system." Did you actually bother to read my comments at post #34? The GI Resistance was instrumental in bringing about an end to the Vietnam War. Those who protested consisted of both those in the military and those who had left the armed forces. The same thing is happening today, albeit in smaller numbers, regarding the Iraq occupation. A book that you may wish to avail yourself of which focuses on this issue is Mission Rejected subtitled U.S. Soldiers Who say NO to Iraq by Peter Laufer. Laufer showcases the stories, often from the soldiers' perspective, of how and why they decided no to obey, like Lt. Watada, the illegal orders that they were given by the military. It is a moving and powerful story of those soldiers who have had the courage to say NO to American imperialism. As during the Vietnam War, those in the military today recognize that the best way to halt a war/occupation is to have it happen from within.

errol.
the GI resistance was successful because it had civilian support, you had the protests in the street, you had the network getting draftees to canada, you had a better civilian support system to get that done, and you had objective media coverage from ww2 veterans such as walter cronkite.

In contrast, today you have a few soldiers onesies and 2 sies being encouraged to fall on their swords with no significant support system like V-nam. nothing like the stockade 7 or those that refused to fight holed up in LBJ, (Thats the Long Binh Jail to you uninitiated) nor do you have the situations like those that had their weapons locked up in the conex at the patrol base camp to ensure they weren't fraggin lifers (congressional inquiry occured around 1971 in response to a drafted college student writing his congressman)

Your para on meija is confusing me as I dont recall saying soldiers don't speak out, but to clarify I am referring to choices of going thru the felony convictions and the like, or using the system to get an administrative discharge that damages your credability, or take your chances on soldiering on, make sure you affect things in a positive manner in your 50 meter zone, and joining a group such as Vote Vets or IVAW when you get back. ( BTW IVAW is the the concept child of VVAW. )

IVAW's effectiveness is based on the fact that here are personnel who did thier job, and came back to educate others on whats going on over there, and what are positive ways to deal with the situation so you at least make it thru , accomplish the mission, and help others thru it.

Meija didn't have any organisation like IVAW to turn to, so he ended up making a choice of going AWOL, with all the other ramifications and doing 9 months on top of it. Again its servicemembers helping service members. (course the Quakers are out there...but I suspect they don't have the romantic cache of rebellion)

Thanks for highlighting "mission Rejected" I'll get back to you on what I think about it (ie stories of courage vs romantic collection of stories of individuals fighting "the Man")

We don't even have an Abbie Hoffman or a chicago 8, and people keep quoting "Sir no Sir" whats up wif dat??

Good cause.

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