October 06, 2007 01:02 PM
Face The Nation: Schieffer Blasts Bush Admin Over Lack Of Contractor Oversight
On this morning's Face The Nation, host Bob Schieffer's commentary was on the recent Blackwater massacre in Iraq and the Bush administration's lack of oversight and accountability. Schieffer is dead on with this one, also pointing out the use of huge numbers of contractors, who work outside the law, instead of our military is a cheap shortcut that yields disastrous results and gives the appearance that our footprint in Iraq is much smaller than it actually is.
It's not cheaper, is it? it's just a way to funnel money to loyal bushies like Eric Prince.
Once again Schieffer falls a day late and a goes few generalizations too far. Oh hell no it isn't cheaper at all. Waxman pointed this out. A sergeant's year of service in Iraq costs the US a lot less than 3 months of private thug security.
Psammy @ 1:
And he in return funnel it right back to Con Candidates so the merry cycle keeps "spinning away".
One Year Wonder @ 2:
Maybe he didn't mean monetarily cheap, but ethically cheap, as in a "cheap shot".
When i send in my Absentee Ballot I send it by registered mail. Pieces like this make me feel almost like it is necessary to actually come the 12,000 miles to make sure the vote is in and counted.
What a bunch, Failed President, Failure in NOLA, Failure in the principle of War, Failure to take care of America's Infrastructure, Our kids are some of the dumbest on the planet when it comes to our past history. It is so fucking disheartening.
The Secret Service protect the US President. How come, they can't protect the diplomatic corps? Simple. Bush's minions get a chance to earn millions, whereas the real protectors of the American nation died for a meager $1200 a month. In other words, enrich the Neo-cons, fuck the American soldier. Additionally, Black Water is nothing else than a new millenium version of the Nazi SS. The plans that Rice and Bush have for this private army and the American people are in gestation stadion. We haven't seen a thing yet! There's more to come.
Why Private Security?
Funnel money to political cronies.
Deaths of "contractors" are not added to the 3800+ military. Lower casualty count easier to rationalize.
Since soldiers are already in short supply, postpones necessity for a draft which would likely bring a prompt end to this occupation.
Well-trained, well-equipped, private army loyal to one political party-somebody to oversee detention camps, quell uprisings, stifle dissent, patrol New Orleans.
One Year Wonder @ 2:
As I understand it, once the lifetime liability of pension and health care is taken into account, Hessians are cheaper than government soldiers over the long run. Same pricing logic as "temp" or "contractor" hires in the normal corporate world.
Bob-in-Northern-Thailand @ 5:
I don't know who's going to solve all the technical challenges this country has to start dealing with. And by technical I don't mean fixing "windows xp or vista" or the latest ipod or cell phone craze.
garcia @ 6:
Yep, how long will it be before they are in our streets taking weapons against us.
They already have made a move to put in that huge Mercenary Training Facility down by San Diego.
Mercenaries Gaurding our borders, then they just have to turn 180 degrees to come after us.
I've never been in the military, so I can't speak from personal experience, but to me the worst way to "dishonor our troops" is to be fighting next to a guy making 5 times your salary for the same job.
Blue Buddha @ 4:
They say its cheap because they dont pay benefits or medical. Thats a another lie. Almost to a man these are ex-GIs and are going to get Va and other bennies anyway. They just get quintuple plus income, after being trained on our taxdollar.
Here's the ADMINISTRATION’S ULTIMATE OUTSOURCING: ‘BLACKWATERBOARDING’
Over the long term it may be cheaper if you consider the benefits--such as health care, retirement, etc.--that accrue to members of the military. I'm sure there is a study out there, done by the Defense Department (or a DoD contractor) that provides at least a shaky rationale that mercenaries are cheaper than members of the uniformed military.
Which is not to say that cheaper is better, of course.
On a somewhat related note, the proposed Blackwater facility in San Diego County would be built on land that is a current travel route for illegal immigrants. Not hard to imagine that, if the Blackwater plans comes to fruition, illegal immigrants captured by Blackwater trainees will be treated less than courteously.
Honestly, as a hedge against the sort of loons that may one day crawl from under their rocks and threaten the stability of our nation, I wish more of my fellow liberals would become comfortable, if not proficient, with the use of firearms. Chances are slim that we'd ever need to use 'em.
Blue Buddha @ 4:
Nope. He thinks that "its a bargain, alright, until" something bad happens. He also tries to use the "you get what you pay for" meme conservatives love so much. So if we paid them MORE and regulated them things would come out alright? Oh hell no Bob, you should have been saying 1) remove all $ for private security contractors in Iraq 2) prosecute crimes committed by private contractors.
Bob makes this sound like a bad experience he had with contractors who were supposed to expand his mansion.
castanea @ 14:
Retirement benefits for military people are only applicable for the people who stay in 20 years. If you are in for four years and then get out, you get no retirement. I would say that most people who go through the military never stay in long enough to get retirement benefits.
Plus, when you are out of the military, most people will stop getting military healthcare and get private healthcare instead. Unless you are a lifer and retired, in which case you get a different plan than active duty that you pay more for. Or you are injured, and in that case you would get VA disability benefits.
"You get what you pay for" That's a blast?
For Chrissakes....He low balls the death count, fails to mention how much we are paying. Ignores what incredible harm these butchers are exacting IN OUR NAME. You call that a blast?
Blue Buddha @ 4:
Perhaps "shoddy" would be a better word to use.
Shoddy came into the vocabulary during the U.S. Civil War (or if you insist, the War Between the States) to describe the poor quality of supplies given to the troops by those wanting to make a profit. And the only way companies like Blackwater survive is by cutting corners and using excessive (i.e. wasteful) force.
George Bush, Halliburton, Blackwater and all those guys don't represent the interests of America. They support some other entity entirely that is somewhere between world domination and international corporate profits and greed. True story. America and her destruction if necessary, are just means to an end for these rat bastards.
Bob-in-Northern-Thailand @ 5:
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/
http://www.fairvote.org/
Here's some resources that might be better economically speaking than a 12,000 mile trip. Although I respect your determination.
navyswan @ 16:
What you say may be entirely accurate, but you miss the point I was trying to make, which is that, based on my own experience with the federal government, I'd wager that the DoD (or some federal entity) did a study that concluded going the Blackwater route was cheaper than using uniformed military. Naturally, that was the conclusion they knew they'd reach all along; they just had to find elastic data and stretch them to fit the conclusion they wanted.
Kudos to Bob for bringing this into the MSM but to say "we are just learning" that the BW mercenaries have no oversight is, to put it mildly, a bit of a stretch.
I'm not the brightest bulb on the Holiday Day Tree but I've known that for literally years.
Come Together to STOP BLACKWATER!!! www.couragecampaign.org www.truemajority.org
The US government contractor oversight problems are fair warning: What the results might be should contractors, as is expected, are used to implement the Continuity in Government plan, or martial law. Please ensure the lessons about Blackwater are not narrowly applied; rather, the lessons need to be injected into the planning to implement martial law. We've seen repeated abuses at GTMO, Abu Ghraib, and Katrina. Blackwater abuses are fair notice to the American leadership what US contractors, left to their own devices and poor leadership, are capable of doing to Americans: Not respecting the law, human rights. The issue will be to look at the contractors the US government has contracted with, and get a sense of the immunity clauses the US government has granted to US contractors. Where immunity has been pre-emptively been granted, that's a green light by the US government to contractors to have marginal training, and poor supervisory control during implementation of the continuity in government/martial law plans.
- Which contractors, as was done with the telecoms/FISA violations, have been put on contract to provide "emergency" support and promised immunity as a condition for theer participation?
- Which lessons learned in re Blackwater/Iraq have or have not been effectively applied to contractor planing and oversight plans related to implementation of martial law and the continuity in government plan?
- Which lessons from Katrina by way of implementation, oversight, command and control, and security compliance with human rights have or have not been effectively institutionalized isnot contractor poerational plans, procedures, and ongoing training as would be required to implement martial law and the continuity in government plan?
- How effectively have IGs with DHS, DoD, and DoJ been in reviewing the lessons from Blackwater, and evaluating how the various departments have or have not effectively applied these lessons to various continuity in government/martial law plans?
- GIven the abuses with FISA violations, Abu Ghraib, NSL, GTMO, and Blackwater, what is the plan of the WH Legal counsel to ensure that all operational plans required to implement martial law and execute a continuity in government plan glean the lessons of Blackwater and ensure that contractors effectively complyh with all legal obligations to ensure human rights?
- Which draft orders and laws has the US government drafted that would provide blanket immunity and bar American citizens, as was done in Iraq, from taking legal action against contractors who violate the US Constitution, human rights, or other standards of conduct?
- Given the nexus of "no Iraqi nor US laws nor the UCMJ were applicable to Blackwater", what is the plan of the US government, contractor, and the public to ensure that US contractors are subject to some sort of legal standard when implementing martial law and the continuity in government plan in the United States?
Because of the unfavorable weather, Congress does not appear interested in ensuring the Blackwater lessons from Iraq are applied to American contractors. This is more than unfortunate: It is reckless and an abandonment of standards of conduct that the American public should reasonably expect of US government officials, bordering on criminal malfeasance and negligence. This has been foreseeable, and not a surprise, as Rice claimed of 9-11. Address the known problems with these contractors and the bungling US government oversight. This is not an impossible problem. It is a leadership problem.
One Year Wonder @ 2:
thats an oversimplification of the "cost".
Every soldier "costs" a lot more than his or her salary, there is the cost of the 3 support soldiers for every combat soldier, there is FEEDING and CLOthing the soldier.
His vietnam era flack jacket, bullets,on and on and on. So I would say its a little disengenious to imply that the cost of having a soldier in the field is covered entirely by his salary??
Do they have to feed themselves and pay for gas too??
The FACT is Bob is right about the cost. But he is also like the other post said, a little late to the punch.
But the most important point wasnt how much a soldier vs. mercenary cost ratio, it was that the Bus administration USED the contracted mercenaries to distort the facts. To make it look like it would cost less, and take less resources(thats what the military calls human beings) too accomplish the goal.
Or at least the goal at the time.
keep movin them goalpost Dumbya,ya know cause you support the troops.
unfrozencaveman@11
Says: I’ve never been in the military, so I can’t speak from personal experience, but to me the worst way to “dishonor our troops” is to be fighting next to a guy making 5 times your salary for the same job.
________________________________________________________________________
Who says they fight side to side with our soldiers? These fuckers spend their days doing nothing. Down time for these people is very expensive for the American taxpayers. When they venture into the city, they shoot Iraqians, because it's a pastime.
Anybody've seen the pick up truck from where they shoot and kill Iraqian drivers in the streets, just for fun? I bet they are the ones who started the insurrection just to guarantee employment for themselves. Well, they did a hell of good fucking job?
.
.
.
Again, what now sounds to be a sympathetic voice in the corporate media misses the big picture.
This illegal invasion NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED!
THAT is the "shortcut" tragedy. Bypassing international law.
And this is NOT a war, Mr. Scheiffer. It is an "occupation".
Jeezus!!
.
.
.
This illegal invasion had to happened, no matter what, because it was planned long before Bush got into the White Hose, long before the Florida fiasco. In fact, the Florida election disaster is a child of the preplanned Iraqi invasion. Black Water is been behind all their plans since 1996. Nobody could stop the train of events to arrive to where we are today. Furthermore. Without Black Water, Iraq would have been a sucess. Bush and their did not plan for sucess, because that would have meant to get out of Iraq in less than three years.
Do you actually think the industrial complex would have agreed to that kind of shit. No sir. To let go such a profit making opportunity. Hell no!! We invaded Iraq planning never to get out of there. That fucking simple. And the Democrats are beginning to acknowledge the money making future ahead of them.
.
.
.
And may I add -- don't let people like Bob Scheiffer fool you. These propagandists are a big reason America is in this position. Where was Scheiffer when other Blackwater tragedies happened years ago.
Tragedy waiting to happen?!!
Yeah, with the help of the American corporate media.
Putz.
.
.
.
Intercontinental Balistic Missles: Peace Keepers
Lieing: Mis-speak
Civilian war deaths: Collateral damage
Blood thirsty mercenaries: Contractors
Illegal occupation of a soveriegn nation: War for Democracy
Depeted Uranium: A one million year 'gift' to our desert friends
NewSpeak is here...I told you so, didn't I. But nooooooo, you wouldn't listen. Well look what we have coming up:
Laws to take away your right to a lawyer, camps to keep protesting civilians, arrests for reading the constitution out loud, torture of children for not cleaning up cake crumbs, tasering a blind woman to death in her wheel chair....
Psssst, George...
What?
It's already here.
Well, glad I'm already dead. You people are soooo screwed!
garcia @ 28:
Would have been a success?!
It was a failure the minute the first American soldier set foot in Iraq.
It was a failure the minute these war criminals decided to invade a sovereign country for no justified reason.
This is what the corporate punditry wants you to believe. The next illegal war will be better! Just you watch!
.
.
.
There is another reason to use Blackwater besides economic ones: Soldiers can be prosecuted for war crimes, but Blackwater was supposed to be immune from either U.S. or Iraqi laws. They never reckoned on a day of reckoning.
the sound is off, I can't here what he is saying.
With the Blackwater mercenaries making $10-20 thousand a month and Blackwater higher-ups making millions more, where is the incentive to get out of Iraq? THERE IS NONE. There was a short interview with one of the Blackwater guards recently on the evening news who basically said 'why take a job in the States when you can work in Iraq and make money hand over fist'. Does anyone have link to a Utube clip of this or another citation?
Found this interesting site about other concerns with contracted-security-oversight: Many cases generate Congressional interest. Wondering if there's a similar site related to Iraq and/or Blackwater.
I wonder if there is a site like this for Blackwater-related complaints; or other things that relate to allegations of illegal activity in re Blackwater?
The more I read about security concerns by members of Congress, the more I wonder: What kinds of security contractors/oversight does the US government plan to use for domestic situations including martial law? I see many questions; but very few straight answers from either Congress or the Contractors. The blackwater situation sends a cleaer signal: There's a problem not only in the Executive Branch, but also Congress with oversight.
Here's something I found, and am wondering -- given the glacial movement by Congress on Blackwater -- whether Blackwater was doing the same kinds of things: Phony companies, tapping employees phones, and attempting to dissuade reports to the media and Congress about abuses in Iraq. Consider the abuses by one security firm to retaliate:
Are similar things going on with Blackwater? All this misconduct in Iraq by Blackwater, and only now -- many years later -- does Congress move. Is Blackwater doing other things we need to know about; and have there been employee complaints which were settled out of court?
One thing we haven't heard much about are the employee-reports from Blackwater. Ever notice that: We're only hearing the mangement comments; but there's nothing from the employees at Blackwater: Morale, training, procedures, directions. I would like to hear more ground-level reports from Blackwater employees, not just in Iraq, but from those who left Blackwater, and are now working with other firms.
OK, go with me on this one: Consider what happened with Plame -- she was outed -- for "rocking the boat"; but look what happens to security firms in Iraq who do the dirty work for the President: They get outed. I'm wondering if Plame-Libby issue isn't the other side of the coin on this Blackwater issue. If someone doesn't play nice and remain silent about war crimes, US Security firms target them; but if people remain silent about war crimes, they get contracts.
Wondering how much VP Cheney's shredding has to do with coverups related to illegal activity in Iraq by security firms; and how Cheney's relationship with the Plame-outing relates to the reason we have such poor oversight of Blackwater. Did Cheney tell someone to backoff in overseeing Blackwater?
Blunt question: How many firms related to Blackwater-like entities have had subpoenas issued to target Americans who are daring to talk about war crimes committed by the US government; and which security firms conduct intelligence operations to target American citizens who dare discuss how illegally captured information has been used to support torture, prisoner abuse, and FISA violations?
To what extent are firms like Blackwater relying on NSLs not to engage in domestic security, but to gather intelligence about AMerican citizens who are discussing the Blackwater-related abuses in Iraq; or other abuses by contractors in the US?
Sorry, I re-read this, and this is confusing: I've rewritten it below, sorry: Here @ 40:
ReWrite
One way to get information required to issue an NSL, target AMericans, identify who to target for FISA violations is to send a firm like Blackwater to find out information; and then forward it back to DHS, DoJ, or others in GOP who need the political information. Who inside Blackwater or other contrators has information in how their personnel were used to gather intelligence in the US, and target American citizens?
Actually it's not a "cheap shortcut" to use private contractors, far from it. It would be cheaper to have the military do this work, whether it's body guards or cooks... what the privatization of war is good for (besides making multi-millions for your cronies) is avoiding a draft. If a draft was in effect there wouldn't have been a war in the first place.
lordkoos @ 42:
I'm wondering if the real reason to use contractors has nothing to do with cost, but something else: The ability to conduct illegal activity which the UCMJ forbids. Who oversees where Blackwater-like contractors go in Iraq; and if contractors were used to engage by design war crimes, would anyone be in a position to notice, much less do anything about it?
This could be one of Gonzalez' programs he referred to before the Senate Judiciary: Use of contractors to engage in illegal activity which US government officials wanted done, but did not want connected to the US government. In exchange for committing war crimes, it appears Contractors won contracts that promised them immunity, in effect acting as US government agents, but calling them contractors. There's no telling what kind of DoJ-DoD memos have been shredded; or what was going on inside Cheney's mind when he wanted to use contractors instead of the US military.
Goddammit there's no way to do a war right if the initial premise is not justified.
Read Sun Tzu's Art of war. I thought most military commanders in the US had read it. I'm sure the Neo-cons would never touch it. This war never was winnable.
It would be interesting to learn more about any alleged threats that Blackwater or other companies providing security may have issued against bloggers; or whether there have been any secret agreements to remove information of interest to the public related to allegations that Blackwater or other security firms were doing something improper.
Curtilingus @ 44:
That was the idea Grasshopper...the never-ending war with the world...this has never been a few degrees from the absolute heading of world conquest, the New World Order.
Keep the people in separation and conflict: Republican/Democrat; Gay/Straight; Christians/Muslems; Black/White; and meanwhile lurk in the shadows with oppresive legislation and actions to kill 80 percent of us (their words) and start all over again with a micro-chipped, beat to submission, compliant working class, 24/7 surveiled society with plenty of crops and water for the upper class controlers and Blackwater 'contractors' to keep the masses in line.
No, it is not a sci-fi movie plot, it is our reality.
I don't think that Schieffer is right when he says that using private firms is "cheaper" than using the military.
These functions used to be performed by M.P.s.
Their training was more thorough, M.P.s were more honest and humane, and it cost less.
Blue Buddha @ 4:
Well, then you have to give that combat veteran a lifetime of benefits and those benefits must be included in a cost analysis.
Too bad CBS didn't stay with this gentleman and went instead with fluffy Katy Couric. Maybe their ratings would be better.
Creepy youtube guy @45
This is called "Divide and conquer". Invented and applied by the english to subjugate Ireland. It was very succesful and continue to be used in every corner of the world. That's how they became an empire. The same procedure has been applied in Iraq. It's not working.
L.A. Confidential @ 3:
Yes, this is government subsidizing a political party. I hope some good investigative journalist would discover how much of what we pay Blackwater goes straight to political campaigns. Halliburton wasn't brought up by this old guy, and should have since they charge $100 for a bag of laundry in Iraq.
"What we have now learned is that these contractors operate outside of the law..."
What the fuck? We've known about that for years! Some years ago, a 1st year college student asked W to comment on the fact that the contractors were operating outside of any law.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0c0_1188545432
I'm just sick and tired of hearing media say, "Oh.. we are JUST NOW hearing about..." when what they are reporting on is COMMON KNOWLEDGE! do these fuckers not bother to read the fucking blogs? the innertubes?
There should be a story about the fact that a 1st YEAR COLLEGE STUDENT has more insight into our government than the president does and that the PRESS IGNORED THIS! How is it that a 1ST YEAR COLLEGE STUDENT knew about this story years ago, but the media have "JUST FOUND OUT!"
PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION!
This is why W can get on TV and say, "No one thought the levies would give way..." and it's the reason why right wingers can say that EVERYONE "thought Saddam had WMD..."
sounds off on both quicktime and wav when it gets to schaffer
L.A. Confidential @ 3:
Um, I think he keeps a small finders fee like a couple billion or so, but otherwise you're correct on the funneling part. I'm sure Eric the Hun will be donating to many dem. candidates this time around. Like many "loyal" bushies, Eric swings both ways.
Money laundering 101. That's what it is allright.
phuKKK bob shoeshine!
now he's upset that the neocons have crossed the rubicon?
like he could not see this coming.
sorry! no credibility here! even as a liar speaks some truth, so shall he be known still as a liar
While reading about Blackwater in Iraq, I was reminded of a bit of Irish history. In 1919, while Great Britain was busy repressing yet another Irish rebellion, the British turned to English mercenaries to deal with the uncooperative Irish. These mercenaries were typically ex-British soldiers and quickly became infamous throughout Ireland for their thuggish behavior. They were known as the Black and Tans, after their ugly khaki uniforms, and to this day they are remembered by the Irish as hated examples of British imperialism. Perhaps we Americans should consider the legacy of the Black and Tans before we ship out any more Blackwater contractors to Iraq.
No, it's not cheaper- it's way more expensive, what with all the graft built in to the system- and the profit. We've made prison profitable. Why not war?
Nothing new here. Contracting military and "intelligence" functions out in the Middle East has been going on since big oil was invented. What do you thing all those oil subsidies are for anyway?
Comments are closed on this entry