No Room in the Maternity Ward?
By Barbara OBrien Thursday Oct 18, 2007 5:01pm
Today some righties are hyperventilating about a story in the Daily Mail — “Father delivered baby after partner was turned away from NHS hospital - TWICE.” A laboring woman in the UK was sent home because, she was told, there were no beds available in the hospital. Eventually her husband delivered the baby at home.
The British National Health Service has big problems that, as I understand it, stem less from the system itself than from massive underfunding of the system. Brits have been trying to get by on the cheap, and it shows. To illustrate, here is Figure One from the University of Maine’s “The U.S. Health Care System: The Best in the World, or Just the Most Expensive?” (PDF).
The figure shows spending for health care per capita in various nations, in 1998. I added “USA” and “UK.” In 1998, the U.S. was spending $4,178 per capita and the UK was spending $1,461 per capita. I understand that in recent years the Brits have been increasing their spending on NHS, but it takes a long time to make up for years of underfunding.
I bring this up because one cannot fairly compare the U.S. and U.K. systems without considering the funding issue. This does not, of course, stop righties from comparing them.
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Thank you for the chart. It shows that we (in the UK) need to spend more on healthcare. It also shows the inequality of healthcare. If I got ill tomorrow then I know the NHS would do everything it can to help me. I doubt the US health system would do the same.
The UK is trying to pick up the pieces of health service after years of shitty conservative rule.
A simplistic analysis...
Go here
and here
to see what's really going on and, in fact, read all the healthcare posts. They're eye-opening.
As to what Americans know about their healthcare...well, there is this................
First?
The righties will be sure to capitalize on this story as well. Thanks to Barbara for pointing out the issue of funding in the British system.
Loonie
Currently we have a Government driven by targets. It's making it worse.
The NHS(National Health Service)hasn't been getting by on the cheap.The problem's been the Private Finance Initiative which was created by Blair/Brown to get corporate money into publicly funded organisations.Most of the PFI contracts have gone massively overbudget costing the British Taxpayer billions of pounds.
Can one of you brits give a quick answer: if you have cash and are willing to spend it, can you easily upgrade your service without bypassing the system entirely? In other words, what role does the free-market yet play there?
I have never heard of anyone being turned away, or not being given proper care in Canada-- EVER!
Don't forget, Britain had their own Ronald Raygun: her name was Margaret.
How much more do you think American health care costs increase when you add in the PROFITS of the insurance companies? We don't have that in Canada, so the cost is less than half, per person. If health taxes go up, most people understand. It's not free. We sure don't want your (non) system!!!!!!!
the ghosts of Thatcherism
I can only say thanks to the forward thinking people of Europe and the UK for the NHS and nationalized health care.
My wife and child, British Citizens both, receive better care than I do when I'm working state side and will as a result in all likelihood outlive me.
After having been misdiagnosed 7 times for various ailments in the US, I rarely even bother to go in unless it requires an ambulance ride to get there.
What does THAT say about health care in the US?
This is all going to be a build up to the chants of
Hillarycare! Hillarycare! Hillarycare! Hillarycare! Hillarycare!
Rudy and the echo chamber are totally going to change the subject (from Iraq and a collaping economy) and start the drone, and the MSM will go right with them?
We forget how effect and single-minded they are.....
They're going dig up Hillary's ghosts, and pound her with it....
Or you could have the US system, Wherein one of my doctors was DENIED PAYMENT for doing a surgical procedure to biopsy a suspicious lump on my jaw. Guess it's being considered 'Cosmetic.'
Nice. Think he'll want to biopsy anything else that might pop up-on me, or anyone else, for that matter?
:roll:
I actually think our system works quite well provided..
a) you're wealthy
b) you don't get sick or injured
Many 3rd-world countries' systems work quite well in these same circumstances.
Let's see, per spending capita in the US is higher than the UK, but everyone in the UK is covered, but everyone in the US is not. Wouldn't that technically make it much more expensive for health in the US as this is being averaged among everyone, yet roughly 1/6 of the US population is not covered.
Oh, that's right, Republican like to use fuzzy math, like lower taxes means lower federal deficit.
Edwin @ 8:
Neither to most of us!
Problem is the bought and paid for Congress. Democrats and Republicans both check it the fuck out here...............
Imagine being a woman in the US with health insurance who, when she goes into labor, is allowed 24 hours in the hospital and then she's sent home. The 24 hours start at noon. Women in labor have been known to sit in hospital parking lots trying to hold off till noon before checking in so they can stay the night.
Well i live in the U.K and i can only say that i'd rather go through what this man had too than have your health system where you dump people to die who have no health insurance.
UKBristolDave @ 5:
Yeah, so much for New Labour. Fat lot of use they turned out to be.
This does not, of course, stop righties from comparing them.
Why let facts get in the way of a good canard?
Biden is joining Dodd on the "hold" according to Kos
Since I don't know a thing about British health care this is all I have to contribute.
Have a great weekend everyone at C&L. I'm probably off the computer until Monday :(
Mr. POP is going to be doing some of his company work on the computer this weekend.
Note that this kind of thing is RARE - That's why it got in a tabloid.
MOST people are happy with the NHS, but there will always be those who either pick fault, or fall through a crack.
The Daily Mail is a right-wing paper, always looking for ways to attack the Labour party.
We have an agenda driven press here too....
I did a bit of reading about the British NHS and in the last few years they've wasted a massive amount of money trying to upgrade the Information Technology part of medicine. Oh, there were attempts to make it possible for patients to schedule appointments online and all kinds of bells and whistles that wasted MILLIONS OF POUNDS. And pounds are like dollars, there are only so many to go around. I guess someone was making lots of money from that failed experiment, but it sure wasn't doctors. Look it up, it's a huge fiasco.
I'm a big promoter of the Canadian system, ever since I had a large brain tumour removed in the year 2000. It would have cost a fortune in American and I paid no more than the regular $108. per month that every family pays here in British Columbia.
These two aren't even married! (Read the article - he's her "partner" and they coincidentally have the same last name) What are they doing having babies out of wedlock? Talk about a quandary for the wing-nuts.
More on the way billions were wasted in the NHS under Tony Blair's "leadership",
"The sickening £12 billion NHS fiasco" from London's Daily Telegraph
"Doctors, nurses and hospital managers have been left spitting with rage. Most GPs think the appointment booking system is a joke. And three fifths of the programme is dependent on a software supplier called iSoft, which is currently under investigation by the Financial Services Authority and whose flagship software product, "Lorenzo", does not exist yet (even though the company said it was available three years ago). In the meantime, iSoft has been merrily selling old software that pre-dates the national programme...
If Connecting for Health had been created by one of this country's enemies with the specific task of wasting as much money as possible while causing maximum anger and resentment among doctors, nurses and hospital managers, it could hardly have done a better job. Having been given responsibility for the largest sum of money ever allocated to a health IT programme anywhere in the world, at least £12.4 billion, which incidentally dwarfs the entire NHS deficit, it has failed to deliver."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/04/17/do...
What the story doesn't say is how big the hospital is and how many births were going on, what hospital here has infinite beds? If this happened all the time then the righties might have a point, but in fact it appears there was a deluge and it is so rare that it made the papers. Even though there were no available beds (remember this would be a temporary situation cause by a sudden rush) she was given a thorough examination by a midwife, who if she felt the baby was coming "right now" would have made emergency arrangements. Perhaps the righties could question the diagnosis, but that would have nothing to do with socialized healthcare as a private midwife could have come to the exact same conclusion.
For every "horror" story about socialized medicine there is an almost identical version with private healthcare....so what point is trying to be made?
"Socialized healthcare would mean rationing", well private medicine is rationed if you can't afford it. And if you can afford insurance that's limited to what level of insurance one can afford. what's the difference?
"Socialized healthcare would mean queues", well the only reason we have shorter waiting times here is because so many can't afford to even join the queue.
"Socialized healthcare would mean the patient will lose choice of which doctor they use", well my insurance only allows me to use certain "preferred doctors". I could use one from outside their list but I'd have to pay for that myself. Oh an when I lived in England I could choose any doctor in my area....no charge.
"Socialized healthcare would mean the patient can't control which treatment is right for them", well with private treatment I am limited to what my insurer will cover (partly) I'm not guaranteed the best treatment, I can have the best I can afford.
We have a fantastic healthcare infrastructure, Access to it is the problem.
Are the Righties saying the greatest country in the history of earth, cannot not do a better job than that? Why do they hate America?
Well if the tories hadn't spent the better part of 20 years trying to privatise everything in the UK, including health care, and then fought tooth and nail to keep it from being fixed under the Labour rule, who knows.
Glad mom and baby are doing well.
In the words of many fuckwit trolls on the SCHIP threads-"What are they doing having kids they can't afford?"
miss_kitty @ 27:
I actually agree with that. Until she went slightly mad I was a huge fan of Maggie Thatcher, but she did make things worse for the consumer in that "self fulfilling prophecy" way the republicans love so much........."republicans say government doesn't work.....then get themselves elected and prove it"
nigel @ 28:
Thatcher was ALWAYS a sickening elitist puke. I loved the 'Red Ken' sketch French and Saunders did w/ Robbie Coltrane. And all the 'Spitting Image' works. She did get worse, and they altered the puppet as she went through the changes.
Old story...
What US healthcare problem? There is no healthcare problem. Nor millions of homeless people. No one is poor here and getting poorer. The system works just fine!
Ignore the man behind the curtain!
Seriously, I was against socialist healthcare a few years ago. That was before I realized just how cynical and... well, evil big Pharma and big Medicine was going to be. And then there's the Bush economy, of course.
Now I have to admit, it is the ONLY way you can incentivize preventative medicine, rather than just racking up absurd costs if you have insurance, or dismissing you if you don't. If you don't think people die in cheap clinic waiting rooms, while trophy wives' lawyers fight to have their implants covered by insurance in the U.S., think again. insurance paid for by normal middle class people, of course.
Healthcare has become just another way to wage class warfare from the top 1% in this country. It is almost like the middle class has just given up fighting for their own place here, resigned to just bend over. Sad.
ukbloke @ 21:
What caught my eye was that the chart/data was from 1998....nine years old, so
would prefer some more recent comparisions.
Barbara,
Thanks for clarifying this. I've lived in the Netherlands for many, many years, and I for one can vouch for the European Health Care System which has not only saved the life of my wife twice, but has assured the long term welfare of my children.
It is a sad fact that in America, most people don't understand the benefits which are available to them if they vote and DEMAND a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM!
The Insurance Companies of America will do everything possible to prevent the voters from gaining this benefit.
Imagine driving from your doctor's office / hospital (Cost Free) with prescription in hand, arriving at the pharmacy and having that prescription filled (no questions asked) never having lifted a penny out of your pocket.
Private Doctor's, Hospital Stays, Intensive Care Units, Radiology, Cancer Treatments, etc. etc. All paid under a SINGLE PAYER PLAN!
That is the way I lived for over twenty years....and I must admit, I sometimes regret having moved back to America. I love this country, but there are times I regret I did not stay in Europe.
My children are all grown now, and I hope with all my heart they will have the benefits in America we enjoyed when we were still living in Europe.
Once again, Thank You for producing this article. I hope with all my heart Americans will see the light, and join the rest of the civilized world in having health care for all it's citizens.
JAG
Oooooh, ohhhh.... we can also play this game:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/
Using execptions to prove the rule can be so much fun!
PNAAC Minister @ 7:
In most of the EU you can get private health care. There are plenty of private health providers that you can pay for if you are not satisfied with the baseline public health system. In some cases, if the private outfit offers a treatment than the public system does not offer and you require it, the state will cover for the operation no questions asked.
So you get access to the baseline system, which is pretty good by any standard across most of the Western EU states, and you are free to upgrade to a private provider if you so chose or can afford to do so. You still need to pay the same taxes though :-)
On 10/2/2007 I went to the ER at 11:45am after passing a large amount of blood and clots in my urine at the direction of my urologist. I was finally wheeled to a patient bed at 9:15pm that same day as they had no beds in the hospital. The ER had been put on bypass after I was inserted into the system. Bypass means they have no beds for any further patients. I waited over 9 hrs for an acute care bed while I continued to have blood and clots in my urine being shuffled from one area to another of the triage process like cattle.
Surgery had originally scheduled on 10/25/07 as the first slot on the standard schedule. Then due to the admission it was moved up to 10/6/07 which means I would sit in a hospital bed for 5 days waiting but again my condition changed moving the surgery to ER status at 6am on 10/4/07 before the standard surgery schedule for the day.
This is true definition of waiting for services or rationing care. Welcome to the American Healthcare system.
Oh more USA is #1 blind ranting ......... joy .....
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Best in the world, what a joke !
Dr. Who @ 33:
Which Health Insurance Company do YOU work for? I really don't expect an honest answer.
B.T.W.: There is a SPELL CHECKER on this site. You may want to use it. Then again....you may be a republican hack. Then utilizing a spell checker would be confusing for you.
Barbara in B.C. @ 22:
Oh sure. My "elder" parents (sorry guys) have had all kinds of health problems. They would be bankrupt if it weren't for our Canadian health care. Just to give you some idea: heart attack, breast cancer, osteoperosis, cataracts and eye surgeries, and the usual "maintenace check ups" and drugs to go with that, and the odd cold, flu, shingles, skin cancer/moles removal etc. They're almost 80 and healthier than most 50-year-olds, they look 50, and still have their retirement savings to support themselves. They would gladly pay increased premiums if asked-- no question. But not for private companies to get rich.
Most of that per capita spending is going to insurance companies! Record profits under the Bush administration. Insurance companies tell patients and doctors what they can and can't do. I work in a doctor's office and I see it every day. Our system is so wasteful and so broken. Plus, they do not pay your doctor to THINK or review your records. Some doctors don't even bother to examine their patients anymore. they just listen to the list of complaints and order a bunch of expensive tests. I work for a doctor who is going out of business because he actually takes the time to READ and review all the records and spends too much time WITH his patients. He refuses to order unneccessary tests that would make him more money.
There is sooo much wrong with US health care.
I don't know why I bother reading the comments on healthcare stories anymore...
I am just so glad the blogosphere is so full of "experts" who know so much about World Healthcare. If the US system is so bad and the doctors are so horrible, then you should stop going to them and go see your Chiropractor, or Homeopathic Physician, or your Herbalist, or the kid making minimum wage at the counter at the local GNC store.
Anyone who knows anything about anything knows the fallacy of making any sort of general statement based on one individual experience.
And for those in the US, you better appreciate what you have because it will get much worse before it gets any better. Doctors are retiring earlier and fewer med students are choosing primary care careers. There are fewer ER's now than 10 years ago, and those remaining ER's across the country are at the breaking point. All we need is a repeat of the influenza pandemic and we are fucked, millions will die.
Now excuse me while I go vomit...
I am a firm believer of free health care for each and every citizen in a country. We pay taxes and I believe that FREE Health and Education in a wealthy country is a right not a luxury.
I'm an Australian, so I don't have a lot of knowedge of the Health systems in the U.S. or the UK. But I did pose this question on a British internet forum where there are many people from the US as well as British and the vast majority of answers from people who had either used both health systems (or at least knew a bit about the British Health system) was that, while their Health system does have it's downfalls, and by no means is perfect, they believed it is far easier to get into a hospital and receive treatment for the uninsured than what it is in the US.
The way I see things in Australia is that if my country wants to spend Billions of Dollars on the Defence forces then they should at least spend a reasonable amount on it's future through Free Education (giving everyone who wants it the opportunity to succeed) and proper health care.
One thing that was missing from the article and which I find an important point is that, the US is the richest nation on Earth. YET with all it's wealth it still doesn't care for the sick as well as it should. This is the thing I think of when people start screaming "Commie" etc. Capitalism by it's very nature cannot ever be the best for any health or Education system. The bottom line is always money so how can a Capitalistic system ever provide expensive health care for those without a lot of money?
Socialism (in thoury at least) does provide this.
The US is the richest nation on Earth YET it still has an inadequate Health System. I find that that a very important but sad point.
Forget about what other country's do (unless it directly affects you or your country)
The Trillion dollars that will be spent of Iraq alone could completely overhaul the US Health System.
The bottom line to health care is of course, our own responsibility...to exercise more, make healthy choices in our diets, do less risk taking non-professional sports, etc.
WHAT WE DIE FROM EACH YEAR: CDC info
Heart disease: 652,486.....Cancer: 553,888.....Stroke: 150,074
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 121,987.....Accidents: 112,012
Diabetes: 73,138.....Alzheimer's disease: 65,965.....Influenza/Pneumonia: 59,664
And these are the bad choice results:
Tobacco:435,0001..... Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity: 365,0001.....Alcohol 85,000
The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year.
While it is easy to say bad government, it is necessary we take some responsibility for our well being. Stop letting them inject you and your kids. Large amounts of boys are becoming autistic after their 3rd injection at about 18 months.
We can't expect a womb to tomb coverage without paying dearly for it in our personal wealth and feedom.
People were actually healthier 50 years ago for various reasons: less toxic food and drink, better physical exercise (they walked a lot), and more. I totally agree that we should have some level of expectation of our government to help us but we have also abused things. We are a letigeous, lazy, sedentary, society who want to blame others too much.
I guess it's unusual for anyone in the U.K. to be turned away for lack of beds, and now it's news. If the media reported those who don't get access to emergency services in the U.S., there would be too many, and it would have to have it's own section in the newspaper.
JAG @ 37:
Are you an idiot? Did you even bother to read the link I posted? Does irony fly over your head at supersonic speeds? Are you denser than lead?
Never mind, I figured the answer already. BTW, oh my god.... I misplaced a ec for an ce!!!!! Maybe that was why your tiny brain could not parse what I wrote? You are so awesome!!! Not....retard.
“Father delivered baby after partner was turned away from NHS hospital - TWICE.”
And the hillbillies freak out. This sounds a lot like the "flag lapel pin" faux outrage.
What happened to that family was a tragedy. But it was once circumstance happening to one family at one hospital. Does that mean the entire British healthcare system if falling to its knees? Where are the statistics on hospital care there that could justifiably get hillbillies worked up? Where's the data? Where's the endless stream of horror stories? My cat took a crap over the side of her litter box the other day. That doesn't mean that ALL cats have bad aim, but to hillbillies, it would. The British healthcare system could be a shining beacon of competence. Or it could be a miserable hell. I don't know. What I do know is one family's tragedy on one day with one hospital does not a trend make, let alone a hillbilly rant-a-thon that most certainly -- without even bothering to check -- included the phrase "Hillarycare."
In Britain, the system seems to have broke down for one couple. In America, many women choose not to go to the hospital.
It seems fair to point out that many American women never go to the hospital. They opt to use a midwife, hope for good luck and depend on an ambulance ride if things go wrong. Many simply prefer a midwife, but the article linked below, quotes one couple as being impressed with the cost savings.
Number of women giving birth without a doctor has doubled since 1990
Good point above that the Brits have set the bar very low. Surely America can do better than that!
Hey, it was the Daily Mail. That's like getting your news from Fox.
The Ghost @ 42:
Yeah but it's not MY fault! I would sue you for libel, except I can no longer get up from my chair without a bulldozer and a crane. ;) So...
1. Always eat healthily (organic veg, non-hormone meat).
2. Never smoke.
3. Always walk to work.
4. Profit?
I think that pretty much takes care of everything except for the flu and booze. Good enough for me. Things like free dental care and blood testing (and other preventative measures) would be icing on the cake.
Wait, how can we fit selling expensive pills in there?
Massive underfunding? lol..
Thats like saying the Iraq war is underfunded.
20 years of "starving the beast" (as Thatcher called pulling funding from public services) + Labour moving to the right and bringing in US insurance company consultants to continue with privatisation = Oops.
There are some hospitals that are an utter disgrace (Manchester Royal Infirmary, I'm talking about you), and others that are fab. Many have differing qualities of care depending on departments, and on how funds are administered (clue: no longer by need, but by targets created by a whole new tier of administrators in the NHS Trusts, created by Thatcher & Co.).
My family have experienced some terrible care, and lots of excellent care. In 12 years in the US, I was lucky that Princeton University Medical Center was "in network", or I'd have been stuck with Robert Wood Johnson (great for immediate trauma, not great for anything else). I was also incredibly lucky not to need surgery - not only would our health care coverage have extended to limited kinds of surgery, it would not have covered much after initial surgery. We were covered, but we weren't really covered, if you understand me. I prefer the NHS. It would benefit from having the "free market" influences removed from it - let people pay for private if they wish (remembering that the NHS picks up all the botched or refused private cases, of course), but remove private "initiatives" from the public service itself, as they're siphoning off enormous amounts of money and a great deal of energy.
Just to reiterate what a couple of a people have written, this report is from the Daily Mail which is, and has always been, Britain's most far right wing newspaper (it even actively supported fascism prior to World War 2!). Its readership consists of elderly people and bigots, and its standard style of reporting is to take a single isolated incident and use it to fulminate (fake asylum seeker! rich beggar! benefits cheat!) over the supposed moral decay of the country.
Stories like this should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Indeed, even if it is true, the Daily Mail are most likely just sensationalizing a unfortunate one-off in an attempt to make a larger right wing argument
so i earn 'nuff to pay for health insurance (personal and self employed health insurance together at around 1,500/month for family of three)... so i'm NOT complaining on my behalf...
i'm also type 1 diabetic - very good shape. younger then 40 yo.
just so people get the wrong idea, type 1 is not the "fat" ones. could be genetic, a few may be viral... nobody really knows why this happens so don't blame us.
WITH the personal insurance I have, my doc/labs/medications cost about 5k a year...
In Pairs, as a foreigner, visiting the best English speaking hospital around, no waiting, costs about 1k a year. my meds are 1/2 the price of the deductibles...
tell me, if you are making 50k a year, with three kids, how do you afford this???
btw: it's cheaper in japan
again, im' not griping about me but what does it say about this most powerful and wealthy nation when we can't take care of our own...
chris @ 52:
Not "can't" -- "don't want to".
This country could do many things besides enable very wealthy people to sit back and watch their inheritance magically create vast new fortunes without an ounce of work.
But those people are obviously happy with their situation, and refuse to understand that they are actually sucking the blood of the rest of us to make that money. Or they don't care. Hell, most of them don't even think they should bay for ROADS like the rest of us, even though they use the roads too. There's no reasoning with these folks; they should be dumped onto Antarctica with a knife and a blanket, if they are so sure they don't need to participate in society.
And the rest of America is apparently just fine with being bled, as they aren't NEARLY as angry as they need to be for things to change.
Immunizations are the single most effective intervention ever invented in medicine. Immunizations have nothing to do with Autism. They have saved MILLIONS of lives. You anti-immunization people are sick fucks! You hurt children!!!
http://infectious-diseases.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2006/802/1
Go tour any old graveyard and you will see how effective vaccinations have become.
Most of those diseases are influenced by genetics more than anything else. Quit smoking, wear your seat-belt, and get your flu-shot every year. You will live longer. Diet has little impact on lifespan.
this is happening in california too. probably don't want to touch that though cuz it's from "immigration"
I often see that. I'm not so sure. At the least, diet has a LOT to do with quality of life. And obesity, which carries on to heart disease, stroke and diabetes. You still can't eat quadruple the calories you expend and stay perfectly healthy forever; diet matters at least a little.
In general, though it seems if you just get rid of all the artificial, additive, and processing crap in your food, you'll probably be fine. Like all those stories in the paper, "Man lives to 103, every day has a scotch for breakfast, ribeye steak for lunch, and bacon for supper. We have no idea why he is still alive."
I bet we'd learn a lot more about the REAL nature of healthy eating (without input from the 'corn growers association', 'beef council', etc.) if we had universal health care.
Actually the Brits have a huge problem with immigration too. My understanding is it's now mostly Indians, Muslims and Eastern Europeans. It's breaking down all sorts of social programs and overwhelming the police.
The Free-traders are wrecking societies so the top 1% can make out like bandits.
51 brooklyn_albion
Are you an expatriate Brit living in Brooklyn?
Albion and Logres are both ancient and poetic names for Britain.
I think William Blake used the name Albion a lot, and Logres comes from the Welsh Lloegyr which Geoffrey of Monmouth turned into Loegria.
Oh no, there's no room for the children
They're all being born in mangers
Run for the hills!
That's my number one fear of nationalized healthcare.
President Hillary Clinton would allow acupuncture treatments for a toothache while President Rudy Giuliani would hand you a used scalpel for a do it yourself appendectomy or worse send you KBR/Halliburton/Blackwater discount surgeons.
In thinking about nationalized healthcare you have to realize cut and profit Republicans will creep back in power again.
2cents @ 60:
No way, they'd just strap you onto a low-bid scalpel wielding robot made in China, and outsource the actual tech work to India. You better pray that there is no internet lag on surgery day while "Bob" in Bengaluru plays xbox with your insides. In new Soviet America, server crashes YOU!
Option A doesn't sound that bad. So what? Let the new agey types pay the $0.79 for a set of needles while the rest of us get actual health care with the savings. Kind of a win, in my book.
How sad: Too many people are so goddamned scared of being called a "commie" for wanting single-payer health care that they shut up entirely.
I wonder what the illegitimate war spending per-capita...or better yet, in a ratio to health care spending would be?
We have always have had universal emergency health care, always. It's the Hippocratic Oath, and hospitals can divert funds and receive financial assistance from the Federal and State government in varying degrees. I saw that silly movie too, ya know the one that said American health care sucks. It was an emotional move, quite a heart tugger but not to strong on the facts. And now there's just a bunch of politicians grandstanding right now, promising that they can scheme up a way to pass the buck. Sorry, that doesn't work. You don't get the best hospitals in the world by passing the buck. We are getting gold quality care and we are paying for it right now.
the other thing is what in the world is the 'British' Health Service?
I live in Wales and we have our own NHS (run by the Welsh Assembly Govt.), not the English one in London. As such things are run differently in different countries, , e.g. we have had free drug prescriptions, eye tests, introduced matrons and vastly reduced MRSA in wards by eliminating the private operations that were in charge of cleaning the hospitals- as opposed to the English etc..etc..
Ultimately there have been advantages and disadvantages to each individual system. My point is though that there is no uniform 'British' health service.
Of course if someone has the bucks they can always go private, so there remains a free market element. But I nor Id say 99.995% of people with our sytem would want what they have in the US.
There ARE problems with the NHS which seriously need to be resolved. However, for the majority of Brits the system works fairly well and this case is somewhat extreme. Either way, given a choice between the NHS and all its various crises, or the American "you're on your f*ckin' own, mate" system, I think I'd rather take the choice that gives me the lower chance of dying of something minor because I don't have any money.
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