Krugman: No such thing as 'Islamofascism'
By Steve Benen Sunday Oct 28, 2007 7:12amSomeone had to say it; I'm just glad it was Paul Krugman.
[T]here isn’t actually any such thing as Islamofascism — it’s not an ideology; it’s a figment of the neocon imagination. The term came into vogue only because it was a way for Iraq hawks to gloss over the awkward transition from pursuing Osama bin Laden, who attacked America, to Saddam Hussein, who didn’t. And Iran had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 — in fact, the Iranian regime was quite helpful to the United States when it went after Al Qaeda and its Taliban allies in Afghanistan.
Beyond that, the claim that Iran is on the path to global domination is beyond ludicrous. Yes, the Iranian regime is a nasty piece of work in many ways, and it would be a bad thing if that regime acquired nuclear weapons. But let’s have some perspective, please: we’re talking about a country with roughly the G.D.P. of Connecticut, and a government whose military budget is roughly the same as Sweden’s. [...]
Mike Huckabee, whom reporters like to portray as a nice, reasonable guy, says that if Hillary Clinton is elected, “I’m not sure we’ll have the courage and the will and the resolve to fight the greatest threat this country’s ever faced in Islamofascism.” Yep, a bunch of lightly armed terrorists and a fourth-rate military power — which aren’t even allies — pose a greater danger than Hitler’s panzers or the Soviet nuclear arsenal ever did.
All of this would be funny if it weren’t so serious.
The politics of fear might be more effective it were grounded in reality.
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Neoconfascists, on the other hand, seem to exist in droves.
Let's not forget the threat our shadows pose.
And there's no such thing as islamophobia either.
The biggest threat this country's freedom and Constitution has faced in over 200 years is the Republican controlled White House and the current Congressional Republicans. Yes, be afraid and do something. Vote the Republicans out of office.
Republicofascism. It's real. Fear it.
"We have nothing to SELL but fear itself."
“IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY LIES WE TELL, BECAUSE ONCE WE HAVE WON, NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.”
-Joseph Goebbels
Do the neocons claim that Saddam was an Islamofascist? He was a secular Stalin-style dictator.
“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”
-- Herman Goering during the Nuremburg Trials
If pants-wetting were an Olympic sport, Americans would clean up.
USA!
USA!
USA!
We're number one!
if Islamofascism is a lie, then who did 9/11?
sssshhhhh... this internets is wiretapped. thoughtcrime!!!!!
From Project Censored 2007….
During a trip to the Middle East in March 1996, Dick Cheney told a group of mostly U.S. businessmen that Congress should ease sanctions in Iran...to foster better relationships, a statement that, in hindsight, is completely hypocritical considering the Bush administration’s foreign policy.
“Let me make a generalized statement about a trend I see in the U.S. Congress that I find disturbing, that applies not only with respect to the Iranian situation but a number of others as well,” Cheney said. “I think we Americans sometimes make mistakes...There seems to be an assumption that somehow we know what’s best for everybody else and that we are going to use our economic clout to get everybody else to live the way we would like.”
Cheney was the chief executive of Halliburton Corporation at the time he uttered those words. It was Cheney who directed Halliburton toward aggressive business dealings with Iran—in violation of U.S. law—in the mid-1990s, which continued through 2005 and is the reason Iran has the capability to enrich weapons-grade uranium.
It was Halliburton’s secret sale of centrifuges to Iran that helped get the uranium enrichment program off the ground, according to a three-year investigation that includes interviews conducted with more than a dozen current and former Halliburton employees.
If the U.S. ends up engaged in a war with Iran in the future, Cheney and Halliburton will bear the brunt of the blame. But this shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone who has been following Halliburton’s business activities over the past decade. The company has a long, documented history of violating U.S. sanctions and conducting business with so-called rogue nations.
No, what’s disturbing about these facts is how little attention it has received from the mainstream media. But the public record speaks for itself, as do the thousands of pages of documents obtained by various federal agencies that show how Halliburton’s business dealings in Iran helped fund terrorist activities there—including the country’s nuclear enrichment program.
Peace @ 9:
It just goes to show that people never change, only the lies do.
We are a nation of wimps, cowering in fear and being manipulated into giving up our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.
Eisenhower was right when he warned us about the military industrial complex, so was Roosevelt when he told us that "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
I am not afraid of a bunch of two-bit terrorists.
Truth Be Told @ 11:
A: A small, well coorinated group of Saudi Arabian criminals who exploited a glaring hole in our domestic transportation system.
That's who.
Marcus Aurelius @ 2:
"Mr. President! We cannot allow a 'shadow' gap!"
Every time I turn around, there's my shadow - sneaking up on me.
exitstan @ 10:
Roffle! :D
I know this is a serious subject but this cracked me up.
It's sad how desperately the 'merkan govt. wants it's people to be afraid to do anything except shop and nod in agreement with whatever insane, fascist crap they come up with.
I think history will call Hucklebee the genial nutjob. Didn't realize he was nuts until he started opening his mouth. Keep talkin', Mike.
exitstan @ 10:
Isn't pants-wetting the opposite of "cleaning up"?
They (NeoCon or Theocon) whatever you want to call them, find it easier to use terms like that because they think they can scare people into thinking Islam will turn everybody into Allah worshipers. It's a sure-fire way into the heart of the "stupid factor" of America. The people who believe in ghosts and supernatural beings etc. They will do whatever they can to keep the scare machine full tilt.
Wait.... There is no Islamofascism? Well...Who is it that hates freedom?
Oh.. that's right-- Your mom....really.
[Deleted]
raymond @ 1:
I agree, truly the greatest threat we face as a nation is the Republicans, they hate America and Americans for our freedoms and they will stop at nothing to strip us of our freedoms, and you want to talk about a group that should not have access to Nuclear weapons, nobody has wanted to unleash WMD's they way the Republicans do...against anyone for any reason.
theWalrus @ 5:
WOW! That's fucking hilarious! LOL I'm not being sarcastic.
I'm sick and tired of this neo-cons all over the news. I'm amazed that most of the American people are so stupid and actually believe these idiots.
I've always liked this site for pointing out the corruption in the GOP. Now if Amato would acknowledge the corruption on the left. Hillary wants to go to war with Iran and has yet to make any announcement denouncing war with Iran. There is only ONE viable anti-war candidate, and his name is RON PAUL!! Don't believe the phony polls, RP is winning by a landslide!
Now don't be silly guys...there are plenty of facists of all stripes around that wish to force their way of life on you. Why wouldn't there be Islamo-Facists? There are facists of every other kind!
Or do you guys really believe that Islam is immune from facists desires and designs? No other ideology or religion is, why the exception for Islam?
Silly Rabbits...
Islamofacism is a cute little "buzzword" the neoturds have latched onto....
how does islam and fascism exist together?
Is "Islamoscapegoatism" a word?
Sheesh. Thank the Great Soul (or, for athiests, the flux of circumstance) that el Baradei came out strongly recently about the lack of Eek Eek WMDs in Iran. If the Dems weren't so chickenshit &or obliged to pimp this fraud, I'd sleep better knowing that it would be a hard slog to get up a drumbeat to attack.
In the meantime, I, too, am glad to see Krugman pulling the last veil off this stupid straw boogeyman. To my prior offer to bear his young I toss in a year or two of balling his socks. I don't do that for anyone: Krugman is just that good.
Jeremy Trudell @ 26:
Talk about False Flags!
Hillary has never been a member of the Left. Ron Paul certainly is not. He would invade Japan if the Congress approved it. Dennis Kucinich is the only true Peace Candidate.
Jeremy Trudell @ 26:
RP is a Republican, you'll gain no traction by evangelizing here fan boy.
Miller Smith @ 27:
Silly Miller, look up Fascism.
Have I told you that I like this guy Paul Krugman? He seems to be very intelligent.
Miller Smith @ 27:
Because Islamic extremism does not meet the criteria for fascism.
You need to look up fascism in Wikipedia, read the definition.
Nowhere in Islamic extremism is there a fascist organization, but you (if you are an American) live in a fascist state by the very definition.
Silly person.
So WTF are we doing wrong?
How can so many mouth breathing morons continue to believe anything that comes out of Bush/Cheney's lying, putrid mouths?!?!
Why, when we point out the fallacy of their arguments, not taken more seriously?
Lefty said it even before this. He points out that in their bipolar, good vs evil, one or the other world if they can paint the Islamists as being the fascists, then they themselves logically are not. This is the goal.
http://leftopia.blogspot.com/2007/09/f-bomb.html
Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 20:
Nuts and Dolts. That pretty much sums up this group of Republican candidates.
Didn't Ricky "the Rooster" Santorum make up the word Islamofascism? After all, I believe it is Ricky that is on a mission to warn the world about the dangers of Islamofascism. So that makes Huckabee another idiot like Santorum. Huckabee does believe in creationism so that should tell you everything you need to know. Just another flat-earth believer.
Americans should be fearful of people like Huckabee and not worry about make believe enemies.
The problem with Huckabee’s assertion about Hillary not being man enough to attack Iran is as much bullshit as Saddam really having WMD but just not finding them. You see, that is one of the main reasons why Hillary is not desirable to a lot of us liberal progressives. It seems like she would pull the trigger on an invasion as fast as Bush (well maybe not that fast but still pull the trigger). Even thought I love it that the right wing fascists are crazy scared about Hill and Bill I remember very clearly that they are way to far to the right for my liking.
Geekfather @ 37:
Fox News
CNN
ABC
NBC
CBS
Wall Street Journal
New York Times
Washington Post
NPR
The right wing Think Tanks send out OP Eds every day to every newspaper in the country. It is easier and cheaper to print their nonesense than to come up with something original and meaningful.
Bill Kristol, George Will, Britt Hume will talk to anybody. Rush is on four hours a day. Bill O'Rielly has a cable AND a radio show. Ann Coulter cranks out books as often as she shits, but they stink worse...
The machine is almost endless and very profitable.
I've got to agree with Krugman. If you break down that term "Islamofascism" you will find that not one middle eastern Islamic foe even comes close to the actual definition(s) of fascism. There is no extreme nationalism present, nor is there any statism combined with corporatism to build a massive military complex because they have no actual state to rally around nor any corporations to draw support from. That is, at least the many Islamic terrorist groups do not. There isn't even any populist thought or collective mind set present. Heck, in most cases many of the terrorist groups are ideologically opposed to each and are fighting each other.
Even Iran does not fit all of the characteristics listed. The only nation that comes close to being a fascist state in my opinion is the United States as it resembles the old European fascist states more and more.
Marcus Aurelius @ 2:
There was a man who was afraid of his shadow. But the more he ran away from his shadow, the more it followed him. Eventually he ran himself to death. If only he had sat in the shade of a tree, he would be still alive. -- Zhuang Zi
Geekfather @ 37:
It’s because the whole right wing plays on the fears of the masses. If you scare the people enough they will do anything you tell them. The whole right wing are playing this game. Remember FOX (not)News saying the fires in So Cal being started by Al Qaeda? Be afraid. Be very very afraid.
Geekfather @ 37:
Because logic doesn't stand a chance against a good slogan. Sound Bytes have replaced explainations. And if a General said it, it must be true.
Here is an interesting site. Project For The Old American Century.
Mike Nazibee is a freak who's bloodlust is not satisfied by the million murdered in Iraq since bush's fascist invasion.
Holy shit! What are we going to do about Sweden????
xoites defends Constitution @ 47:
Agreed. That indeed is an interesting site and very telling. The Bush regime and those that support it meet every last one of those characteristics of fascism. Even the demonizing of a particular religion or group is the same as many past fascist regimes. In the end, the only difference between those past regimes and Bush is the target.
To use an expression that I learned from my Austrailian friends.....your goverment" lost the plot" a hell of a long time ago.
Rusty Shackleford @ 49:
And when do we start economic sanctions against Connecticut! (Sorry, Holy Joe but your state compares favorably to the Axis of Evil)
Southern Christo-fascist Republicans pose the greatest threat to America, Al-Queda and the "Islamo-fascists" are a distant second.
Krugman makes it look so easy against the mouth breathers
There is, however, such a thing as Christofascism.
Truth Be Told @ 11:
Maybe we will soon find out.
FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds: 'I Will Tell All, & Name (new) Names'
Rusty Shackleford @ 49:
We're America. We have bombs and Blackwater! Bork bork bork...!
Pakistan is the single greatest threat to Middle East stability, and also the biggest threat for terrorists to get their hands on a nuclear weapon...AND...the technology to deliver it over a long distance.
This is a plain fact verified and advised by U.S. intelligence.
Once again, the idiot son has taken his eye off of the ball.
Krugman, Living In His Own World
...Iran had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 — in fact, the Iranian regime was quite helpful to the United States when it went after Al Qaeda and its Taliban allies in Afghanistan.
Quick, alert the 9/11 Commisison - they will want to revise this part of their report:
Intelligence indicates the persistence of contacts between Iranian security officials and senior al Qaeda figures after Bin Ladin's return to Afghanistan. Khallad has said that Iran made a concerted effort to strengthen relations with al Qaeda after the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole, but was rebuffed because Bin Ladin did not want to alienate his supporters in Saudi Arabia. Khallad and other detainees have described the willingness of Iranian officials to facilitate the travel of al Qaeda members through Iran, on their way to and from Afghanistan......
" if Islamofascism is a lie, then who did 9/11?
sssshhhhh… this internets is wiretapped. thoughtcrime!!!!!"
It hasn't been confirmed who did 9-11, but one thing is for certain: no where in the Al-qaeda traioning manuals Bin laden was using at the time are their descriptions of the complex procedures requires to drop two 110 story, and a 47 story building exactly into their footprints, using explosives that vaporized everything in the building, and were still producing enough heat to cause flowing molten steel three weeks later.
There's plenty of footage showing the explosives going off, plus the timing of the collapse, which indicates free-falling speeds, NOT floors pancaking onto each other, plus analysis of the plane-caused fires from a heat perspective showing the plane fires were approximately one-half the temperatures needed to melt steel, plus the analysis of some of the world's foremost demolition experts, plus the statement of the WTC sysad who was forced to completely shut down all systems in the buildings, including all surveillance cameras, the weekend before 9-11, plus Bush's cousin mysteriously appearing as a beneficiary in the insurance contract on the towers about 90 days before 9-11, and with a termination date on that contract of 9-12-01, plus the testimony of people inside the building hearing explosions coming from the bottom floors of the building, plus the...oh, well...you get the point.
Talk about doing your research...why don't you try it sometime?
But there is such a thing as 'Christozionistupidity'.
"The politics of fear might be more effective it were grounded in reality."
The politics of fear seem to be effective precisely because too many people *aren't* grounded in reality.
Got to hand it to the GOP who keeps coming up with rediculous buzz words every so often when their old buzz words start to get stale.
Chip @ 63:
Unfortunately, these moronic buzz phrases are like red meat to the 24%ers. When the reich-wing base is comprised of uneducated, scared, and death loving children, it's not difficult to keep them under control and riled up.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 24:
Got that right!!! I was thinkin about this "Islamofascist" BS...and to me the REAL threat comes from the Xtianofascists...AKA Neo-Con Republicans...they've got to stopped, though I have no idea how...other than voting them out...if we even have an '08 election that is...
These people are hellbent to start WW3...to bring about the "rapture"...fuckin ignorant churchies!!! Yet ANOTHER shining example why organized religion SUCKS!!! They don't even see the irony here...let's say for shits and giggles...that Jesus is real, and the rapture happens....they ain't gonna be the ones that Jebus takes away on his chariot or whatever, lol!!
The politics of fear might be more effective it were grounded in reality.
The
politics of fearBush administration might be more effective it were grounded in reality.The politics of fear might
be moreare most effectiveit werebecause they aren't grounded in reality.However, there is such a thing as Islamo-terrorism. It should also be kept in mind the potential for being gripped by fundamentalism knows no political, religious or ideological bounds.
How can so many mouth breathing morons continue to believe anything that comes out of Bush/Cheney’s lying, putrid mouths?!?!
It began when the media started praising Ronald Reagan as 'The Great Communicator' - when, if you put most of his speeches through a critical lens, it was empty puffery. Reagan, in turn, put an end to the Fairness Doctrine, launching the great myth that the 'marketplace of ideas' can determine on its own what memes have merit.
If such were truly the case, we'd be seeing Survivor: Iowa with the Elephant and Donkey tribes eating bugs for the privilege of serving as our next president. Jessica Simpson would be the next Secretary of State (heckuva lot easier on the eyes than Condoleezza "Iron Bitch of State" Rice). Future disputes on the international front would be resolved by phone-in poll, with Simon Cowell and Paula Abdul to offer insight.
But it's not just the media - it's the failure to teach our children critical thinking ... and I'm not talking the 'fallacy' school of internet forum debate, but also the need to expose kids to something other than a homogenized, convenient, instant-gratification lifestyle so that they approach the media with something other than blind devotion.
Bob in N. Thailand @ 22:
Forcing religious pseudo-thought into school curriculum is also a good way to make sure the dumbed down future xian soldiers are fully immersed in the propaganda from an early age.
All of this would be funny if it weren’t so serious
You said it, Steve!
xoites defends Constitution @ 57:
Thank goodness for the Daniel Ellsbergs and the Sibel Edmonds of this world!
We don't need to fear terrorism, we don't need to fear Iran and we certainly never needed to fear Iraq, we don't need to fear rogue nations acquiring nuclear armaments, we only need fear bigotted, Christian Republicans who use terrorism as a fear card.
Only Republicans use buzzwords. Only Republicans play into fears.
Coming to a country near you: the Land of the Free and the home of the Brave morphs into the Land of the Liberty-less and Home of the Fearful.
Miller Smith @ 27:
Really......fascism, if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I am...is when corporations take over...Mussolini I believe said fascism might as well be called corporatism...as far as I know...Islam tends to be anything but corporate...but I could be wrong...
It's all so ISLAMOLICIOUS!!!
Thinking that the Democrats will save us from Republicans (even if our elections weren't corrupted - FIXED) is like thinking that Ann Coulter is a woman.
There is nothing that happens in our world that is not controlled by an international cabal of sociopathic, meglomaniacal, drug-crazed, greedy freaks! 9/11 was concocted by this same cabal (PNAC, Bilderberg, etc.) and they used the story about some crazy Saudi religious fanatics in order to create fear in the masses so we'd go along with their fascist takeover of countries with resources they need to continue their move toward the New World Order. Watch the videos, read the witness reports, read the PNAC docs.....End of story.
Anyone who thinks Clinton or Giuliani, or any of the candidates running in one of our FIXED elections has the will or the power to change what the "powers that be" want to do is "not grounded in reality." Look what happened to JFK, RFK, MLK, P Wellstone, and dozens and dozens of other high profile folks who made the mistake of even trying to speak out and warn us. Once they drop those bunker busters on Iran, we're really screwed, 'cause all those who still think we're fighting over there to be safer here will cower in fear once again, and the Blackwater folks will start herding those who remain alive into those ever-so-convenient FEMA camps. I know, I'm the one who's nuts....
Amitola @ 76:
Um ... okay. But I thought it was the Anu'naki, not the Bilderbirgers ...
I think it's the bush admin's lame attempt to "brand" an enemy, but it's as absurd as Islamonazi or islamocapitalist. I think you could call them, theocrats, but you can call this admin that, too.
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Islamo-Fascism is a myth. Christo-Fascism is real. It's called the Bush Administration.
Peace @ 12:
Yeah, but Iran wasn't threatening to dump the dollar for oil trades back then. It was ok for Cheney and the good old boys to invest in terrorism and killing as long as Tehran played by the rules.
Everyone should read and follow the link to xoites #57.
Waxman needs to hear from us.
His excuse for not following up on this is probably the same bullshit excuse they use for everything. "It would be bad for the country". That's a stupid phrase.
What the fuck could be worse?
SCOTUS selecting the pResident?
Ignoring pre 9/11 warnings?
Invading a country that didn't do anything to us?
Killing over a million men women and children in Iraq?
Illegally wiretapping American citizens even before 9/11?
If a septic tank is full or clogged it has to be cleaned out. Yes, it's a shitty job and will stink to high heaven, but it has to be done for it ever to work again.
Troofer infestation. Time to spray again
"Islamofascism" is a phrase born of infantile jingoism.
Why is it that the reichwing react with fear when they hear of Islamic people who would love to see their religion be the dominant one in the world, but then fly to defend Republican spokeswhore Ann Coulter's perfecting the Jews comment?
Dr. Mengele thought he could too when he injected blue dye into their eyeballs.
Loonie @ 83:
A jingo ate my infant!
"...and it would be a bad thing if that regime acquired nuclear weapons."
Actually, it would be a great thing if the regime acquired nuclear weapons, for the simple reason that no-one would do anything. No bombing, no invasion, nothing. Remember the Cold War ? Well the only reason it didn't turn into a direct war between the US and the USSR, a war that would have taken the lives of hundreds of millions, is because of the constant threat of mutual annihilation.
Now, if Iran and Israel both have nukes, it means they would both not-engage in confrontation.
I see reality. It's sailing away and only barely visible on the horizon.
"The politics of fear might be more effective it were grounded in reality."
Are slasher movies more frightening than Hitchcock, or Edgar Allen Poe? Basing it in reality would make it refutable. The Judeo-Christian mythology undermines its own faith by insisting on the unique sanctity and historicity of their relationship with a line-making function of our psychophysiology commonly referred to as god. We Buddhists simply call it "monkey mind." It's the flashlight-like ability of our brains to discriminate one stimulus from another for the purposes of serial thought, like this sentence right here.
Things with form are much less scary than our formless fears. That's the wicked genius of the War on Terror. Even though being composed of Light and Dark, Good and Evil, are basic to our being at all, if you accept fundamental dualism (as depicted in the above divisions of things), it terrifies you to think you might be sharing identity with Ee-vil, doesn't it? Well get used to it.
As Kurt Vonnegut Jr. pointed out in Gallapagos, we're bewitched by our ability to make and use words. First, we learn to label our experiences; then, we move entirely into this Word World; then, we experience only our labels. Lastly, we lament the failures of empirical reality to live up to expectations. Bush isn't the only one who does this.
Tell me what you see:
[Side A] --- A line --- [Side B]
[Good God Us] --- [Evil Devil Them]
Sure, you see the 'things' spelled out in lines; do you also see the indivisible field in which we find our common ground? Do all of the partisans among us really think their car batteries will work if they only use one pole of a pair? Things arise in an indivisible field. They only seem separate.
Am I the only Buddhist in this crowd? Am I the only one who understands the mythology of the phrase, Out of Many, Union?
Out of the infinite, we arise
We unfold from within, we respire, we decompose
Back into the Infinite
Out of the one came Christ
He entered into manifold time, endured the shattering willingly,
Then returned from whence he came.
The good news is, you too are a child of god. God is not apart from us. The Buddha is not in some far off land or long long ago. We stand in divinity just exactly as these words stand in a field.
For example, why do men have nipples? Because 'male' and 'female' are the most common forms of the one body human. Are there any transgendered in the house who want to take up that point? Men have nipples because we are all composites of male and female, etc. I think some men are driven nuts by their nipples. Isn't it about time we men put our mechanical phalluses back in our own metaphorical pockets, and stop trying to cock-flog the world to death?
People who can't sidestep their own binary, ratio-making minds are driven insane by the thought, the mere thought!, that they may be implicated in the tragedies of our day. 'No! It must be entirely the Other's fault! I'm good because I say so! I must be happy and nice and pure good or I'll go to hell forever! God bless America! Death to the Infidels! On to the Holy Land! Blame Canada! Kill somebody, anybody, just don't ask anything of me!'
Here's a ratio for ya: Dead in Iraq in a Day / Living Iraqis we allow into our benighted land in that same day
The Hopi have a word for how we live: koyaanisatsi, life that gets its energy from draining the life out of others. And we say we don't practice human sacrifice.
Iran is not a threat... sure they see an opening caused by Iraq to increase the power and influence of the Shia, which makes sense and I don't blame them given the historic rivalry with the Sunni... Sure they are likely giving arms to Shia in Iraq as part of this, which are likely being used to kill Americans... although far more Americans are being killed by Sunni insurgents... also, name one instance where a Shia suicide bomber has killed Americans.. they are all Sunni and likely come from Pakistan, Egypt or Saudi Arabia..
Sure they want to be a bigger power in their sphere of influence.... that is their right.... as it is the U.S., China, Russian, etc....
And sure they may want a nuclear bomb (although not proven), as is their right like the U.S., Pakistan, Isreal, etc.
Before and after the Iraq war the Iranians actually reached out to America.... the Neocons shot them down... a big mistake...
Iran would likely be a far better partner with the U.S. than Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan... countries where all of the extremists come from...
It looks to me like Iran has had no part in the recent violence direct at the U.S. by Al Queda.... in fact they are likely also an enemy of this Sunni terrorist group....
And so they have a wacky President who on occasion says ridiculous things... but, that means nothing as he has no real power in Iran and even his own people, including the clerics that run the country think he is wacky and do not agree with everything he says.... you cannot attack a nation, who has shown no really aggression toward the U.S. because they have a wacky president who says stupid things.... sounds like another President we know.... who has a habit of saying stupid things.... I think he said something about World War III the other week.....
Iran would not even be an issue if it was not for oil and the Israeli lobby in the U.S.......
bushofascism
is more like it
heh...
ysbaddaden @ 85:
With apologies for the not-quite perfect rhyme ...
Dashing off to war
In an unprotected jeep
Dodging sniper fire
Keeps us on our feet
But our leaders say
It's going really well
'Cause you can't measure casualties
If it's war you're gonna sell!
Jingo sells, jingo sells
While fear is next in line
If we choose to bomb Iran
It'll be 'cause we're inclined
Jingo sells, jingo sells
Biil-O's ratings are thru the roof!
A MoveOn ad draws stern rebuke
But FOX can't tell the truth!
Captain Kangaroo @ 33:
I only wish that Krugman would get some 'assertiveness' help. He seems too 'passive' debating the 'aggressive' repugs.
Krugman: No such thing as ‘Islamofascism’
Yes they should be called Islamofashionistas.
Shadowgm - well done!
Republics[sic] are cowards. They quake in their boots at the very idea of some boogie man out there, waaaaiting to git 'em!. So...they give it a name.
tyree @ 77:
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Shadowgm @ 90:
Fitting and accurate! I love it! :lol:
If Fascism is the alliance of Corporate power with State power (as Mussolini said it was, and he should know a thing or 2 about the subject), then the term, "Islamofascism" applies best to SAUDI ARABIA for it's potent combo of Corporate influence, state power and
STRICT religious law.
SAUDI ARABIA=THE PERFECT ISLAMO-FASCIST STATE
Wow! I had no idea Krugman reads my blog!
Dr. Krugman must explain exactly why he believes Iran is a threat and to whom it is a threat.
Truth Be Told @ 11:
Uhh that would be the Saudis.
know!buddhaU @ 87:
Dag dude. Where can I get some of what you're smoking?
I disagree. There is such a thing as fascist Islamic theocracy, and it does pose at least some threat to the West. Whether Iran is one of those I'm not so sure yet. But it is clear that that is EXACTLY what Saudi Arabia is. You know, our supposed close ally.
Just because the noecons abuse the concept doesn't mean it is imaginary. It is pretty real, though small, and made powerful only in the sheer number of those that would suicide like lemmings off of a cliff.
I do think it ironic that Krugman, and American, seems hung up on the idea that the largest, riches military always wins. Huh, really? I'm not even sure that the American forces were even "fourth rate" against the British. It seems to me that we succeeded in achieving our goals, however.
Grounded in reality? It's plain ridiculous and dangerous that every single one of your presidential candidates believe the universe was created by a magical being who watches and listens to everything you do. Their entire lives are grounded in unreality. This alone shows a clear lack of reason and intellectual honesty. If you can wholeheartedly believe in fictitious beings, it's no giant leap to throw around and believe terms like Islamofascism.
And once again, if Mike Huckabee truly believes the nonsense he says:
"“I’m not sure we’ll have the courage and the will and the resolve to fight the greatest threat this country’s ever faced in Islamofascism.”"
Then there is no reason why he shouldn't be advocating a formal draft. Why is no one pressing these idiots when they spout such nonsense?
Ramone @ 103:
Y'know, when I was a kid, the only people who spouted crap about having courage and will and resolve were generally bullies egging you on to a fist fight, or to do something stupid like steal a candy bar.
Dr. Matt @ 62:
Paraphrasing Keith Olbermann, one third of the US electorate isn't interested in the political process. The right has done a very good job of making that same 1/3 think that they *are* the political process.
There are fascists though, and they're now called neoconservatives.
Thank you, Krugman. The bloody MSM with their hyperreal graphics could make the Dalai Lama look like the world's greatest threat. It's sick propaganda.
Look at Iraq. They couldn't get a scud missile to hit the side of a barn and the MSM had Saddam painted as some futuristic Darth Vader with high-tech weaponry. It's patently silly.
The only reason Saddam had ANY chemical weapons or nuclear technology is, WE GAVE IT TO HIM.
The fact is, the U.S. needs war and oil to satisfy its insatiable desire for profits.
They're doing to the Middle East what they did to the Native Americans: manufacturing reasons to take their land and resources.
I attended a fundraiser earlier this month at which former Democratic President Bill Clinton described Iran as "a genuine threat" [exact quote]. He explained that the danger is not that they launch a bomb on anyone themselves, but that they make it and give it to terrorists to set off in the US. Obviously this guy is not a "neocon" or "Bush /Cheney henchman" etc so how do you dismiss his judgment? Terrorists obtaining fissile material has long been recognized as a major risk to our country - does anyone dispute that? Isn't that why we worked in the 90's with the former Soviet Union nations to try to secure their nuclear materials? Iran unchecked is going to be making that material, no? Does anyone dispute that? Iran supports terrorists - does anyone dispute that? Granted they are the size of Finland but what does that have to do with their intentions once they have nuclear material to disburse? It's sad for our nation's security that Bush /Cheney have such negative credibility - everything they say, people believe the opposite is true, when it is possible they are correct this time around. With all due respect to newspaper columnist Paul Krugman, who has misstated the question as if it were one about "global domination" when it is about terrorist access to nuclear material, a former Democratic President is going to know a lot more about national security risks than he does.
I think that they just want to feel important so they have to frame their rhetoric in the nuttiest way. If this wasnt "the greatest threat ever faced!!!!!", then they would somehow be lesser men when compared to earlier generations. They want to think that listening to talk radio and barking idiotic talking points somehow makes them superior to D-day vets.
mt @ 108:
If you will read the whole Krugman editorial you will see the he acknowledges "Just to be clear, Al Qaeda is a real threat, and so is the Iranian nuclear program." His point is that conservatives are vastly overstating the threat for their own political gain.
Iran closer to nuclear bomb than IAEA thinks - France
Mon. 29 Oct 2007
ABU DHABI (Reuters) - France's defence minister brushed aside on Monday remarks by the head of the U.N. nuclear watchdog that there was no proof Iran was building an atomic bomb, saying France had information to the "contrary".
The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Mohamed ElBaradei said on Sunday Tehran was still years away from having the ability to produce a nuclear weapon and that the IAEA had no evidence it was building a bomb.
"Our information, which is backed up by other countries, is contrary (to ElBaradei's comments)," Herve Morin told a news conference in Abu Dhabi when asked about ElBaradei's remarks.
I dare say that calling them Islamo-fascists, is merely a form of deflection for the ACTUAL fascist factions working hard to have a fully operative fascist rule here. MOST of the pieces are in place by the way.
William Blum said: "A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn't have an air force."
James Madison said: "If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
Madison also said" "The fetters imposed upon liberty at home have ever been forged out of the weapons provided for defense against real, PRETENDED, or imaginary dangers from abroad."
Abe Lincoln said: "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Well, they ARE a real threat, because the defense industry who benefits nicely from their existence, has made it so. If you keep poking a stick at bee's nest, you'll get stung. We are perpetrators internationally, because we are invading, and murdering marauders internationally. YEAH, the world knows it, but our mostly defense industry invested networks, keep US stupid, except for us, those that don't depend on those pathetic networks, for their excuse for "news".
If we backed off, I believe they's back off as well, but the defense industry wouldn't be doing as well if that happened. Neither would the oil industry. THEY keep the networks afloat. NEWS??? Barely a smidgeon of it, if it won't touch thier bottom line.
Seems more and more obvious to me that the old joke about California being like a bowl of cereal should be changed to the Republican party is like a bowl of cereal. At least the Republicans are more obvious.
The politics of fear might be more effective it were grounded in reality.
We're not that far from Dumbya's next step....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxZJYbVd1hEThe politics of fear might be more effective it were grounded in reality.
***************
Maybe so, Steve...but I don't think you get it. Right now, the politics of fear in its many various forms -- fear of another 9-11, fear that allowing children to learn about evolution will automatically turn them into atheists, fear that teaching them about contraception will encourage them to have sex, fear that permitting them to learn about homosexuality will turn them into gays and lesbians, fear that allowing gays to marry will destroy the sanctity of marriage, yadda yadda yadda -- is all that the GOP has to run on right now! What else do they have? The economy? Well, it could always be worse -- but it's not as good as it could or should be, and certainly not quite as good as the GOP want us to believe it is (not at the rate at which we're borrowing money from other countries to pay for this interminable war of theirs). Safety? According to the people who should know, that's not as good as it could be or should be either -- although the GOP would like us to believe otherwise. The environment? Please...like the GOP cares about the environment!! Taxes? To all appearances, Bush believes that you can run a country effectively by taking in less in taxes and spending more. That's a way to run a country, all right...to run it right into the ground. As the late Paul Tsongas once said, "you can't pay your Visa bill with Mastercard." These people have to threaten and frighten the beejeezus out of the American public and they know it -- because if they didn't, they know that a sizeable chunk of the American public would look at what they have to offer AND VOTE AGAINST THEM.
Two things to consider:
1. The reason why Iran might want the nuke is because the US keeps threatening everyone with nuking them and the only thing that scares the US is someone having a nuke.
Chicken-Egg problem. The US threatens Iran with the bomb because they are afraid Iran might have the bomb to defend themselves from the US.
2. That such countries as France, Germany and Russia do not want Iran from having peaceful nuclear tech is highly strange.
I have the feeling it might also have more to do with politics and not so much the nuclear plants.
Heck, they did not seem to have problems giving out such techs to questionable sources, do they?
Heck the US gave India and Pakistan nuclear tech and, besides Pakistan being a base for AQ, they are also willing to bash each others heads in for Kashmere.
What? Saudi Arabia is a repressive government? Let's send them tanks. That will show them... haha!
@Islamofascists:
Why do people constantly think in two-sided absolutes.
We have, the Neocons and the Islamic Terrorists. Since the terrorists are, by the definitions supplied by us, bad, we mus their fore side with the Neocons.
But the truth is like an infinite multi-faced gem. One face for each group and if you do not subscribe to one of the given mentalities then you are free to have your own.
And once and for all people, *don't believe the hype*!
Those telling you these stories have been telling lies for soooo long, even they have forgotten the truth.
They tell us of 'Islamofascits' that hate us for us being us. That is the simple view they want the people to believe because the people want to believe the 'simple *we are the good guys* story' and the people will NEVER believe there might be people out there that hate us for what we have done to them.
Bad enough there are thugs like these ruling the world but how can people be so completely stupid and ignorant to actually believe them?
I don't think there isn't Islamofascism, as well as there is also Christofascism as well - it's all a bunch of spiritual extortion trying to get people to "convert or die". These such neocons think they are absolutely right and everyone else is wrong by showing no remorse. If you want to have such bigoted convictions, think again after viewing the following websites: www.messiahtruth.com & www.jdstone.org.
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