This guy sounds like a douchebag. He's probably in some airport men's room stall "falling" onto a cop's penis.

FWIW - I say we boycott "The Big O". I hate their damn commercials. It's a store, not sex.

I had been looking at a sofa on Overstock.com....no way in hell they're getting my money now.

All class , too bad it is all 4th .

he lost his neo-con play book. he was supposed to crow that this was a great victory for his cause and the voters have spoken.
like that clown gopper's take on the republican rout in kentucky.
"yeah, we wanted to loose. yeah. that's the ticket...have you met my wife, morgan fairchild?"

Overstock.com is a Thug business.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635209449,00.html
May 22, 2006
"Patrick and Jack Byrne, the president and chairman of Overstock.com, did a political version of that recently. They combined to spend $1 million on ads designed to help crash John Edwards' vice presidential campaign two years ago."

If you would shop at Walmart, by all means buy more cheap crap from Overstock.com

Byrne shows as much class as his crappy company, none at all.

Haven’t guys like Byrne ever heard of losing with dignity? Maybe a little class?

Really. That's unsportsman-like conduct. Didn't he learn not to be such a sore loser in school?

No guys i'm afraid Byrne is like many other GOP individuals lately...they're like school on Saturday...no class.

As someone who has dealt with Patrick for many years, I can tell you that he is no neocon, no Neanderthal Bush lover, nor is he a movement conservative. He is much stranger than that. He has a PhD in Philosophy from Stanford, runs an online surplus store, and is quite possibly insane. You can read his biography here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_M._Byrne. The best place to follow his corporate exploits is here: http://www.jeffmatthewsisnotmakingthisup.blogspot.com/.

Enjoy!

"Haven’t guys like Byrne ever heard of losing with dignity? Maybe a little class?"

Hell, guys like Byrne can't even win with dignity. How on earth could you expect anything different when they lose?

Private schools fair no better than public schools. Look at schools run by private companies in Philadelphia and other cities and they do not do any better. We should look at Europe for direction. The students there are very highly educated for free.

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I just closed my Overstock.com account.

Vote with your bucks, folks - it's the only thing they understand.

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Utah was the first state to opt out of "No Child Left Behind" funding because it hamstrung the public school system there.

Their voters went to the polls and chose to raise taxes on cigarettes and booze, to pay for the education for their children. It's working.

California is now 49th in public education, and they're getting the No Child Left Behind funding, which isn't doing shyt for the schools there.

And you're right when you say private schools are not faring any better than public schools because there's no accountability for private schools - they can take your money and still not teach or educate your child for shyt. Charter schools, too.

But Byrne isn't the only neo-con spouting this shyt. Harold Ford was a big champion of voucher programs, as is Artur Davis and Al Wynn - hell, most of the DLC members are water carriers for voucher programs and privatization of Social Security. What dipshyts.

that's it, i will never buy from overstock.com again. let's see how many others will
boycott them and watch their reichwingnut profits go down the tub.

“They don’t care enough about their kids. They care an awful lot about this system, this bureaucracy, but they don’t care enough about their kids to think outside the box,” Byrne said.

Got that? Disagree with the right on voucher schemes that don’t work, and you’re a child-hating moron.

Haven’t guys like Byrne ever heard of losing with dignity? Maybe a little class?

With not a small amount of irony, I find that this was the same reaction by Dems after losing SCHIP once or twice....

Just sayin'

draftedin68 @ 24:

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I just closed my Overstock.com account.
Vote with your bucks, folks - it's the only thing they understand.
.

Here's the magic word: feedback@overstock.com. Please inform them of your vote.

Jay @ 30:

“They don’t care enough about their kids. They care an awful lot about this system, this bureaucracy, but they don’t care enough about their kids to think outside the box,” Byrne said.

Got that? Disagree with the right on voucher schemes that don’t work, and you’re a child-hating moron.

Haven’t guys like Byrne ever heard of losing with dignity? Maybe a little class?

With not a small amount of irony, I find that this was the same reaction by Dems after losing SCHIP once or twice....

Just sayin'

Errrrrrrr.... Jay, ummm since the S-CHIP program DOES help children and the voucher program only helps private 'charter' schools that's a pretty nonsenical comment there. Most of these 'charter' schools are nothing but religious brain-washing camps that care little about real education anyway!

People buy a lot of crap from him. He may have a point.

The concept of a voucher system is a very interesting thing to begin with. For one, our public school system is broken. It won't be fixed anytime soon, and my spouse, who is a public school teacher attributes this mainly to the teachers. She cites examples of teachers and principals, calling students "little Monters", "Their little idiots", and such things. This along with impropriety in general. A kindergarten teacher she works with spends most of her day surfing the web while trying to ignore her students. This is in a lvl 2 school on the 10 lvl public school system, so it's poor and mainly full of minorities. The reasoning for this kind of problem is that teachers are so protected by their union, that it's difficult to be fired. This is even the case in incidence of child molestation, which is in no way uncommon in public schools.

I'm not saying that teachers are overpaid, or anything like that. They certainly aren't, and our country is far behind the curve in this department at all three levels of education. The problem is a lack of competition. Remember that public school systems and day cares were one of the main causes of the falls of many empires such as Rome and Greece. When you standardize education, where does innovation come from? I cannot teach in public schools even though I'm a PhD candidate at my perspective university. This is significant in showing that the standardization of our public schools is not just in creating little robot workers, but in teaching them with robot employees. To teach in our public school systems, at the grade school and high school level, you're required to have an education degree. This means that every teacher your kids will have in public schools will have the same undergraduate degree. Where does the innovation come from? Does this show why we're falling behind?

I'm for the voucher system, but only if it excludes private religious schools. Funding schools such as Montessori, Waldorf, and other types of alternative education systems that usually hold educators to higher standards than public school would be a wonderful thing for our country. That and it would create competition between educational facilities that are federally funded. This can only be good for our kids.

All this said, most funding for public schools comes from local property taxes anyway. Federal funding is less than 8% of total budgets for average American schools. This is why many top ranked schools have rejected the no child left behind act, and decided to actually teach their children rather than just test prep them all year long.

In a nutshell, Vouchers (good), Vouchers for religious private schools (very very bad, in fact unconstitutional), Current system (probably even worse).

"Haven’t guys like Byrne ever heard of losing with dignity? Maybe a little class?"

Oh, so in other words you're saying - don't act like a member of the loonie liberal left?

I won't be buying from Overstock.com anymore. Jerk.

Terrible @ 34:

Jay @ 30:

“They don’t care enough about their kids. They care an awful lot about this system, this bureaucracy, but they don’t care enough about their kids to think outside the box,” Byrne said.

Got that? Disagree with the right on voucher schemes that don’t work, and you’re a child-hating moron.

Haven’t guys like Byrne ever heard of losing with dignity? Maybe a little class?

With not a small amount of irony, I find that this was the same reaction by Dems after losing SCHIP once or twice....

Just sayin'

Errrrrrrr.... Jay, ummm since the S-CHIP program DOES help children and the voucher program only helps private 'charter' schools that's a pretty nonsenical comment there. Most of these 'charter' schools are nothing but religious brain-washing camps that care little about real education anyway!

You have your facts wrong. The voucher program is entirely different from the charter school program. Charter schools are "chartered" by their state departments of education and are NOT to be confused with religious or parochial schools. In fact, they are public schools funded by taxpayer dollars, at least in my state they are. There is no religious education going on in my child's charter school. I have sent children to public, parochial and charter schools, and I think that taxpayer dollars should NOT be used to fund parochial schools. I still believe in separation of church and state and I tell everyone who e-mails me those messages decrying the lack of prayer in public schools that it does not belong there!!

I just want to ask again: Why do so many liberals/progressives have such tunnel-vision in political races? As we've seen time and time again over the last 30 years, the Federal government has limited power to influence a great number of issues. But still liberals/progressives seem to always concentrate our efforts there.

Where are the web sites encouraging liberals to run in very, very local races? Damn people, the whole reason that our school systems are so screwed is because of the concerted effort on the part of religious extremists, beginning in the early 80s, to take over our local governments, especially school boards. I still have, somewhere, the "informational pamphlet" I got from Pat Robertson on "How to return God to Our Schools". And you know what the first section is on? "How To Regain Control of Your Local School Board".

As liberal/progressives, if we want to fix the problems with our schools (among a myriad of other problems), we have to be willing to eschew the "limelight" of national politics and roll up our sleeves to do the dirty, under appreciated work of taking back control of our local governments.

Cody @ 29:

I think the point that Utahns, who are perceived to be highly religious and LDS (Mormons) on the whole, would want to send money to church schools is largely incorrect. A very large number of people in Utah wouldn't have a private school to attend if they wanted to. Often the private schools are available to NON-LDS kids (e.g., Catholic schools). The LDS church has a seminary building next to almost every junior high and high school in the state. They don't need the state money to function incredibly well.

Moreover, many students can travel over an hour a day on a bus to get to the only junior high or high school in a large area. Why would these people want a cent of their money to go to private schools. Utah public schools are surprisingly good if not highly stressed like most schools in the country, and most people, including religiously LDS people, know this. They might not have a ton of resources, but the students largely still perform well. Even with vouchers, only the rich can send their kids to private schools. Utahns are starting to see the neo-cons' anti-"socialist" crap for what it is.

People talk about Utah like it's an alien planet. Utahns have exactly the same concerns and sensibilities as the rest of the country. Public education in Utah is one of the most important, if not perfect, institutions in the state. Why would we vote to send our tax dollars to the rich more than we already do? I'm so proud of my home state for voting this one down.

Thanks fer the insight, Cody! I was thinkin' that there are so many LDS kids in the public schools that vouchers wouldn't matter to most of the voters in Utah. Good fer you guys!

The problem we have here in Grand Rapids (MI) is that we have had a strong Christian Reformed school district in the area fer decades, so even when our public schools were performin' well it was a real task to get a millage passed to keep up to speed. A few proposed millage increases in a row failed back in the '80's and the performance level of our students started to slide. Before ya know it there was disaffection with the public schools; white flight to the Christian Reformed and Catholic schools, combined with flight to the more affluent 'burbs followed. The GRPS has been spiralin' downward since about 1986.

What saddens me most about this is that the (mostly racial minority) students in the GRPS can't help but notice not only the difference in the amenities when they compare their schools to those in either the parochial or suburban districts; and more sadly they can't help but notice the differences between themselves and those who attend the parochial/suburban schools. And whether its a matter of art class or math class, these GRPS kids can't help but realize that More White Kids = Better Schools.

That's a lesson that shouldn't have to be taught because it's an equation that shouldn't be true.

I disagree. The public education system in America has been on a downward slide for a long time now. American Universities are gradually lowering the standards to get in and while this may have something to do with the massive growth in the number of people attending college, it speaks profoundly of the decrease in the education quality of our youth. I am not saying that vouchers are the answer, however I feel that government monopolies are every bit has harmful as their corporate counterparts. I think that vouchers are a worthwhile experiment. After all, education is one of the few things left to the states to determine for themselves (mostly) so 50 states could equal 50 case studies of how to improve our disturbing education slide.

MF @ 50:

American Universities are gradually lowering the standards to get in and while this may have something to do with the massive growth in the number of people attending college, it speaks profoundly of the decrease in the education quality of our youth.

I have no problem at all with colleges and universities lowering their admission standards. Why shouldn't everyone who has the desire to attend be allowed that opportunity, especially at state schools? We all pay taxes to support them. Higher education should be like health care - accessible to everyone, not just those who have passed some test of eligibility beforehand.

I understand your point about education in the lower grades, but that's a separate issue. In what way does it help solve that problem to allow fewer people to attend college?

Of course Byrne's a sore loser! He's a mormon, for cryin' out loud. If you think otherwise, wait 'til Mittens loses, and all the boo-hoo, "I lost 'cuz I a mormon!" crap will flow like water down the Colorado river.

Five2Nine @ 43:

I also went to a good public school, but that's only because I grew up in small towns with only one district. If you live any any reasonably sized city and can't afford to rent or own in a good district, you're screwed. These schools are terrible. Many don't even have text books to offer students.

You are right. Thanks to our republican friends (who have done everything they can to undermine every facet of the common good), some school districts can't even afford paper!

And after they wreck something, the repukes have their privatization parasites (cronies) swoop in suck-out the few remaining school dollars in the name of keeping taxes low (for the ultra-wealthy).

The fact is, many school districts in this country are outstanding. So the only way the repukes can diminish the whole, is by using a "rigged" testing system. Unlike every other country in the world, we educate and test everyone the same way. This almost gaurantees a 50% failure rate (especially when compared to countries that only test a small "elite" group of students). This allows the wingnuts to perpetuate the myth that our entire educational system is failing; which is a pile of rightwing B.S.

In fact, I would take five smart kids from our school district, and debate any ten wingnuts anytime. Limbaugh, O'Rally, Hannity, Coulter, etc.....even the decider guy. I think the kids would take their lunch.

I went to public school in Utah, though it's getting to be quite a long time ago. Even back then class sizes were very large and state spending was very small. I don't live there now, but all I can say is good on ya, Utahns, for recognizing crap when you see it. And good on ya again, for opting out of NCLB. I know that raising taxes on things like booze and ciggies to fund essential services isn't the best way to run a system; it's sort of one step up from the bake sale, but when we've got the government we've got, sometimes that's all you can do, and I only wish Oregon, where I live now, had done the same for child health care.

And I'm another one who'll have to cancel my Overstock account. I've bought a bunch of stuff from them over the years, but some things just aren't worth it.

The first place to pass school vouchers is going to face a lot of lawsuits on the separation of church and state. No way that I want to have my tax dollars supporting religious indoctrination.

Thanks for pointing out the Overstock.com connection. I always like to know where NOT to spend my money.

1. "(Utah)...with a high percentage of religious families who might want tax dollars for their church’s schools."
As with most voucher schemes, this isn't really just about "wanting" tax dollars for schools -- a more accurate phrase would be TAX GRAB. If one "wants" tax dollars to subsidize the religious private schools their children are ALREADY going to, that's simply a TAX GRAB, as in "Gimme some tax funds to subsidize my personal, private choice....Oh, and let's screw over and bankrupt the public school system while you're feeding me at my trough."

2. "Voucher supporter Overstock.com chief executive Patrick Byrne - who bankrolled the voucher effort - called the referendum a “statewide IQ test” that Utahns failed."
GREAT! PERFECT!!! Use that phrase over and over in counter-ads the next time a voucher scheme gets on the ballot in Utah or neighboring states. "This is the attitude -- the arrogant greed -- of those behind this pro-voucher scheme who want to grab your tax dollars to subsidize their children's private schools."

3. DO. NOT. BUY. ANY. OF. OVERSTOCK.COM'S. USELESS. CRAP.

Overstock.com was heavily involved with that whole "swift boat" crap from before the last presidential election.

You folks need to pay more attention.

I've lived in Utah for over 30 years, and the public schools have been consistently under-funded because the Utah lege is dominated by far-right yokels from Kane County and other rural districts (the "cowboy caucus") who refuse to spend any money on public education. The whole voucher thing was just yet another attempt to create what I've always called Mormon Madrassas, where they can teach the holy writ according to Peepstone Joe without any state interference (although, as someone pointed out, there is a Mormon seminary next to every public school above grade school in the state). The same applies to the higher education system here; "why spend money on them danged 'UU-niversities' where people are taught to ask questions and become homos and do drugs, when we have the Lard's own BYU right down the freeway?", and where people are most definitely taught NOT to ask questions. Seriously, I've also sent two kids through Utah public schools and both have gotten great educations. The Utah lege are the lords of privatization; despite overwhelming evidence, they bow down before the private sector like some idol (perhaps because they're all bought and paid for by lobbyists!) With very few execptions, you won't find a more corrupt nor more sanctimonious and self-righteous bunch of pricks anywhere.

Glad to see the link to wasatchwatchers, I'll start reading it now!

Yes, Byrne could lose with dignity if he had owned it.

signature: “I like to drink coffee before bed. I dream faster.” (c) Steven Wright: Coffee and cigarettes.