Countdown: Welcome Home
By Nicole Belle Thursday Nov 15, 2007 11:00am
Download | play Download | play (h/t Heather)
I defy you to watch this and not be moved. And as he does so often, Keith Olbermann zeros in on exactly what should be meant by the phrase "supporting the troops."
To speak of supporting the troops and not understand that the only true way to enact that support is to make sure that kind of homecoming is what each of them and their families have earned is to reduce that support to a saying on a bumper sticker, to making it a meaningless brand name. Supporting the troops is supporting 1st Lt. Thomas Bourne, and supporting Amy Bourne and supporting Walker Bourne and supporting Preston Bourne. Supporting them is not making those two little boys have to cry again. It is not thumping a chest and waving a flag and threatening a dissenter. It is not what the Army Reserve is doing to Thomas Bourne and thousands more like him: sending him after his two weeks' leave is up...back to Iraq.
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"But... but... they volunteered!"
/conservative
Please do not associate my name with Susan Newton.
Thank you
The Amazing Tarquin
Just to play devil's advocate, he pays well, if we're "winning the war in Iraq," why are they inisisting that they troops stay in that litter box?
Bring them all home NOW! Impeach Cheney and Bush and send them to the Hague.
Like tears in rain...
"You think you’re righteous, tell it to them
Draped flags are comin’ home silently again
Mothers are cryin’, when will it end?
The sons and daughters of the Hill they won’t
send
The people’s shoutin’ fell on deaf ears
Your moral values caused millions of tears
Why oh Why oh Why
Why oh Why oh Why
Why oh Why oh Why
Why did you lie?"
--Wackiavelli
Booze consumption is at record highs.
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
I'll drink to that!
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
Creating numb sculls.
That video made me cry.
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
Do you blame them? Hell if I had to go through that the ONLY thing that would sober me up would be my kids. And I don't have kids, don't want any because I see what this world is. Booze is the least of the problem. They need medical care frequently, which they are of course not getting. "Support our troops there so we don't have to support them here."
Marc @ 9:
I was referring to the perpetrators of the war, i.e. Cheney
Only crooks and cowards hide behind the "Support Our Troops" line. Everyone supports them-- it's the corrupt policies of BushCo, the cabal that ducks for cover behind the troops at every turn, which America does not support. Using the troops as their own personal body armor only makes obvious their total contempt for both truth and justice.
truth is, little overpampered Lord Puss N' Boots wouldn't know actual justice, or troop support, if it bit him in the ass. With a little luck, someday it will.
Limbaugh: "The phony soldiers sons!"
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
Well how else are ya gonna get high?
like a hungry baby, like a hungry baby.
Mindfire13 @ 5:
Sounds like the title of a country and western song like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4EqxK-UQA
"Return on success," is nothing less than bullshit.
We've consistently been told that we're making progress, we're winning, etc. - but the truth is that we've called up seven more brigades while making plans to bring home one. Conservatives habitually complain that liberals are disrespecting the troops, their families, and their 'sacrifice' - when the truth is that we have overworked soldiers sent into the field with shoddy kit, we're cutting health benefits that are already sliced thin, their families live off food coupons and struggle to make house payments.
But the leaders who sent them there, in addition to most never having served, live a privileged life with six-figure salaries, as do private contractors under the aegis of Blackwater USA.
Go figure.
That had me crying.
Every time I hear the phrase "support the troops", I cringe.
ysbaddaden @ 15:
I don't know people will invent some way to numb down. Now booze isn't a high anyway. It's a good fix to help loose your inhibitions. Thats it's main attraction.
The price of that though is you loose your good judgment, hearing, vision, and just about everything else.
Whatever helps you get through the day I guess.
Jo @ 4:
don't forget to torture them along the way.
please don't forget to torture them along the way.
"In 2005 alone, 125 veterans committed suicide each week and of the more than 88,000 vets returning from Iraq, more than 28% of them have experienced mental health problems."
So that's another 1400 a year on top of 3,866 who have died in combat.
L.A. Confidential @ 21:
That, and a little crying on God's shoulder seems to work for George W. Bush.
After watching that, all I got is, "Wow!"
Will This Tragedy Continue
We have heard and scene this story many times. For most of these touching moments, there has been an equally tragic conclusion. For in the next tour, this soldiers, and I truly hope not with all my heart, have stepped on a mine or met their end by a fanatical Islamic terrorist who is mad enough the strap a bomb to his body and kill the soldier and himself in the process.
I recall seven soldiers who wrote a letter in the NY Times stating their opposition to the war. Many of them met an ill fate within months after the letter was written. At the time the letter was written, those who wrote it risk an obvious military backlash, but they did it anyway. I am truly sorry for not posting a link to this event, but I was lost for important references needed to recall the story in example. I am sure about the events.
My point is this: These stories, like many more, end up in an usual tragic ending. I am sure this tragedy will effect the innocent the most. The lost of a parent at their ages will affect their lives in developmental ways that have not been measured.
Joseph
WOW!!! Beautiful Keith. Thanks.
By the way, what ever happened to all the Bushbot trolls who used to constantly post on these sights trying to incite our wrath? Maybe they got off the kool aid and drink some coffee.
Rusty Shackleford @ 1:
Home for two weeks then back again?! That's almost as callous as this comment, the mindset this embodies. Bring them home, for good. The mental anguish the soldiers are going through is nothing compared to their children's.
Of course everyone supports the troops - these are our family members, who volunteered to serve their country, but obviously have no voice in policy decisions, forced to occupy a violent hell-hole by a giggling sociopath and his "very serious" sociopathic cadre of cowardly sadists. The right wing fear mongers and war profiteers will stop at nothing to discredit those who want our troops to NOT be killing and dying for reasons as poorly explained as in Vietnam. They trade the blood of others and their own souls for a handful of dollars - pathological scum. Seeing these guys come home is the only good news - sadly the post script indicated that this is just a temporary leave. If the cameras were there when the LT had to tell his boy he was going back, we would hear screams. Please, please no more. All troops home now. Please let sanity find a place in our policy. Please let the proponents of sanity find the courage to act effectively. Less suffering and more happiness for everyone is the goal, and it will never be achieved by mass slaughter. I just wish the democrats had the courage to stand up for what is right, instead of validating the fear. Courage means being afraid and plunging forward regardless. Chin up, friends!
Vote your conscience. Sadly it seems that the only remaining check on Bush's insane ambitions are the generals.
L.A. Confidential @ 7:
Booze consumption? What about SUICIDE LEVELS among vets?!? OOps. Now I see xoites has the rates. Thanks. And the fight that disabled, disfigured and otherwise injured vets sometimes must wage to get their fair share of benefits. And the lives lost for a reason that turned out to be a lie. It's enough to make you want to cry.
Rusty Shackleford @ 1:
Why is "they volunteered" an invalid argument? I'm genuinely interested in a logical response.
Busholini: "Iraq is just a 'comma' in history".
This video should be stickied on the top front page all day. It is so moving and KO's message could not be more clearer.
to the GOP, the troops are just a commodity, like pork bellies or frozen concentrated OJ, to be bought and sold.
of course, americans as a whole (present company excluded) has paid/is paying/will pay a HUGE price for sitting on our collective ass and yawning as our country evolved into a malevolent military empire.
the troops--these brave individuals, who, for the most part, i respect wholly--are but cogs in our war-dependent economy. and until we, as americans, face reality, "support the troops" will be just another slogan that is easy to say but impossible to carry-out.
getting troops out of iraq is vital--but never assume that that will solve the larger issue.
I wish that military personnel could convey to us citizens how much they hate this war and this administration. Sometimes I don't think they have our backs the same way we try to have theirs.
What about the latest bullshit from the mis-administration how if Busholini doesn't get ANOTHER $50 billion, the
PentagramPentagon will have to lay off personnel and some bases will have to close.Bull. Fucking. Shit. The Pentagon's $471 BILLION budget has already been approved.
No one ever reports the good things happening in Iraq. You have to realize the people of Iraq have no rights as humans. Going over there makes me appreciate the freedom we have in America and all the military over there risking it all for us.
Now that things are improving in Iraq the news (msnbc,cnn nbc,abc,cbc) wont report it just because there agaisnt the cause. Thats a slap in the face to all the Military doing a great job in Iraq.
Thank you once again Keith. As usual, you've nailed it!
36 Dr. Acula Says:
".........and some bases will have to close"
when i read admin bluffs like that i just chuckle. the pentagon would just as soon hire jane fonda as their spokesperson then they would close one of their 800+ military bases straddling the globe like roman proconsuls.
yet, let's say this was a serious statement and not an empty bluff--i say, it is about fucking time we closed a huge chunk of our military bases. they only engender hatred, distrust, cost us billions, and are for the sole benefit of the corporations dependent on their existence. in other words, bush's threat, to me, sounds like a great idea. a win-win, if you will.
Dr. Acula @ 36:
'Mis-administration,' 'Pentagram'...a Perfect Storm you got there Dr. Ac
:lol:
37 Dik Says:
"Now that things are improving in Iraq the news (msnbc,cnn nbc,abc,cbc) wont report it just because there agaisnt the cause."
they actually have been reporting this inaccuracy.
saying that a reduction in violence is a "success" is inaccurate. the reduction in violence is great (and the troops deserve credit for being used as pawns in the corporatocracy boardgame) but that was not/is not the goal. the goal was political reconciliation. and, despite the rdx in violence (mostly attributed to the success of ethnic cleansing, not US involvement) there has not been political reconciliation--which was the WHOLE reason we had the surge.
thus, being polite, makes your point fall short of accuracy.
cbutterb @ 31:
Because the National Guard members that are there are in the guard to protect our shores, not be deployed. Guardsmen tend to join the Guard to be here for our protection, defensive, not over there in an offensive role.
Left & Left - one reason that active duty troops rarely speak out is that they are constantly barraged with "data" which support the policy of their commanders - maybe not "brain-washing", but certainly opinion shaping. Another reason is that troops who see their friends killed are highly motivated by the emotions of fear, rage and revenge, also encouraged by their bosses- until you have been there, it is impossible to understand how strong these feelings are, and how they can change people. Another reason is that they are legally forbidden to speak publicly in opposition to their commanders - until they depart from service. There certainly are a number of vocal groups of veterans who do stand up for their brothers and sanity in general. However, the pressure to conform to doctrine, and follow orders is hard to overstate. I guarantee they have our backs - that's why there are there in the first place. They just don't have a voice ,for far more reasons than listed above. Recent news indicates 120 per week are killing themselves, which is indicative of the incredible pressure on the troops to engage in actions which violate their own conscience, with no legal process in place to ameliorate their own suffering.
No wonder Olbie is pissed. BushCo stole the govmint and the countrys panties. Bush laughs at us all because he got away with everything, even half the country knowing how badly they were had but can only scream and squeeze their blankies tight knowing nothing can be done because equal hacks will be voted in on the other side.
Hail Amerika, the great eunuch.
navyswan @ 20:
Funny. Every time I hear it I want to beat someone to death with a claw hammer.
Dik @ 37:
Good things that happen in Iraq? Yeah like the electricity is back on. The water and sewer are up and running... If we are without electricity for 5 minutes we call the power companies and report the outage. In Iraq they get power for 3 hours a day, if they are lucky. We throw out food from the fridge because it gets spoiled because of no power. What would you do in Iraq?
What about the bad news? Show us everything and let us decide based on the facts. This whine about the "liberal bias" in the media is such a lame crock! There is no media left in this country. Personally I don't know if it is being blocked by the government, or by the corporations that own the media outlets. Just free up the media and let's get the facts and we can once again become an informed populace and make decisions based on facts, not faith.
and yet somewhere around 24% of those polled will in effect stick their fingers in their ears and say "la la la la" while watching this. the same chickenshit chicken hawks that push for war and place families in a situation unimaginable to the 24%..
(awol from the texas national guard, 5 deferments). at the start of this war of choice i saw a news report on marine families in california and how a local group set up a food bank just so the very families with loved ones on the front lines could have some decent meals. this was necessary because our government does not pay much to the "volunteer" forces. and under this administration, the hired security forces of companies like blackwater make the type of money our troops can only imagine. seeing the reaction of these young boys makes me feel so many things and at the top of the list is the utmost respect and understanding of what that man has missed and sacrificed, what the boys must have been going through and how strong the wife must be. to hear this young boy say "i never thought he would come"....please 24%ers tell me again why our troops are still there. unfortunately i do not expect a good explaination. i do however expect the wingnuts attack with an all too predictable "they volunteered to serve etc etc."
Support the troops, Return on Success, Stay the course, Cut n Run, ...Get-R-Done.
Keep it short n simple for the cro-magnons.
cbutterb @ 31:
Back in the day, National Guard and Reserve troops backed up active duty military by serving in peaceful areas like Germany when regular troops were called to war. Many did not volunteer for active duty and are now being called back to Iraq multiple times. That is NOT the original concept many Reserves and Guard volunteered for. In addition, our Guard are severely depleted so we don't have the people we normally would have to help with the fires in southern California or the Gulf Coast devastated by Hurricane Katrina. And in addition, many reserves have not worked at their regular jobs since 2003. Do you think their employers are still holding their jobs for them?
cbutterb @ 31:
It's not an invalid argument. They did in fact volunteer. But they volunteered for something based on lies, misrepresentations and falsehoods. No I'm not talking about the justification for Iraq.
I'm talking about shit like "America's Army" , all those 'Be all you can be' commercials that make joining the army look like a video game. I'm talking about all the catchy slogans that make it all seem like a picnic. I'm talking about the recruiters that lie about what jobs you'll be doing, where you'll be going, the bonuses you'll get and the pay you'll be drawing. I'm talking about getting deployed to Iraq for two weeks less than is required for you to get the benefits you were promised for deployment. I'm talking about stop loss policies that won't let you out even when you've fulfilled your obligation. I'm talking about veterans benefits that people were promised by our government being cut. I'm talking about lying in a moldy roach infested hospital bed suffering from a head wound. I'm talking about coming home because you've been used up by the war machine only to find you've lost your job ( which is technically illegal, but a business cannot operate with it's employees being gone for 4 years ), your home has been foreclosed upon and your car has been repossessed. I'm talking about coming home so mentally damaged that you commit suicide because the government that is supposed to take care of you for your service refuses to treat you for PTSD.
If these people knew the sort of ass raping shell game this administration was going to play on them, or knew the sort of political football they'd become, before they signed on the dotted line, a large majority of these people wouldn't even BE in Iraq because they wouldn't have volunteered in the first place.
please keith.......supporting the troops means wearing a flag pin, clapping at a parade, having a sticker on your suv (that get 15 miles per gallon), and standing in front of the AMVETS/VFW.............
After watching this piece, I came up with a "Support the Troops" t-shirt concept in Star Wars propaganda mode:
http://abqonline.com/SUPPORT-THE-TROOPS.jpg
The eagle is crying, drenching the red white and blue star spangled banner.
Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, et al would rather shoot the eagle so no one sees it crying....
Sad and dark era for our glorious country.
Welcome home, homeless.
50 E in Md
Most volunteered for National Guard Services to help protect their home states during emergencies, not foreign--overseas assignments.
Methinks it's boosh trying to pump up his own National Guard service, even though he deserted during wartime.
Nice piece. However, while we can say that the troops volunteered under perhaps false pretense, many troops are still volunteering despite the obvious collapse in trust in both the government and commanders in the military. I think that the majority of the regular military (not Special Ops) are still ignorant to the realities of this administration when deciding to volunteer. However, everyone in the Special Warfare community are 100% aware of what's going on and I think their volunteering opens up a completely different set of talking point when discussing an all volunteer army in the current US political climate.
miss_kitty @ 40:
You making fun of the pentagram I wear? Admittedly, I have to wear it under my shirt so the Christers around me don't go all ballistic.
cbutterb @ 31:
When joining, I doubt that most people signed a paper volunteering for illegal, unnecessary war. The paper you sign claims that you are going to protect the constitution and the country. I don't think Iraq fits in either of those categories. Not only that, but with the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, illegal wiretapping, torture, and really too much more to add here right now, I don't see any constitution upholding and protecting going on.
If over 72% of the American people are opposed to the Iraq War; why do anti war movies like Lions for Lambs and Redacted fail miserably at the box office?
mrogi @ 59:
Why do right wingers judge reality using movies and television shows?
damn you, KO! now i'm blubbering like a baby at work.
mrogi @ 59:
Why do you equate box office receipts for support/nonsupport of the war? Maybe they're crap movies. I'm against the illegal occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan; I'm not seeing those movies. And as an aside, I personally wouldn't take money to see a movie with Tom Cruise in it.
It's posts like this that make me wonder how you are able to operate a computer. You lose again.
mrogi @ 59:
That's a stupid argument. If America is so Christian why did the movie The Nativity Story (2006) bomb during that holiday season?
cbutterb @ 31:
It is not an argument. It is an excuse.
mrogi @ 59:
Silence of the Lambs made a lot of money. Americans must support serial killing.
mrogi @ 59:
Because people don't want to be reminded of the fact that their mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters are in a freaking meat grinder for no good reason and they might never see them again.
Perhaps if they put Jesus being beaten and tortured in them for hours and hours in one corner of the screen that'd help.
The Gospel According to John was a dud, but the virtually the same story told in porno-violence The Passion was a hit.
I heard it was advertised in splatterhound websites. I consider movies like Saw and Hostel to be among its progeny.
Rusty Shackleford @ 65:
Titanic made $600,779,824 at the box office in the US. Americans must support cruise ships slamming into icebergs and freezing crappy young actors.
Minnesota has a program like Welcome Home. They have a lot of veterans that have served in previous wars and the Iraq War. They make it a promise to meet and greet each and every veteran returning home. They find out if they have any urgent needs etc.
It is really moving to see those men (and some are elderly) meeting, shaking hands and hugging those veterans and telling them the appreciate their service.
I wish it was being done all over the United States.
Fahrenheit 9/11 made a ton of money.
The right-wing hack job "debunking" of it went straight to video, where it gathered dust on Blockbuster's shelves.
I could play this game all day, mrogi.
59 mrogi Says: "If over 72% of the American people are opposed to the Iraq War; why do anti war movies like Lions for Lambs and Redacted fail miserably at the box office?"
i have not seen either of these movies... so, to you, does that means that i am pro-operation iraqi liberation?
i fail to understand your, odd, point.
Wow. That actually moved me to tears, and that's saying something. I can't imagine how this man's wife and sons must feel every day. I have to wonder how good a cause it has to be for just one family to go through that much heartbreak, let alone thousands. I shouldn't have to say that Iraq falls far short of that cause.
Rusty Shackleford @ 70:
Heh.. yeah it was made for $6 million and pulled in $119,194,771 in the US and $103,252,111 abroad. That's 37 times what it cost to make. Sicko's only been out since June and it's already paid it's $9 million cost back 3.87 times.
a special comment without it actually being presented as a special comment. and a damn good one at that.
Samson- @ 41:
Ok lets not recognize the troops and there accomplishments in Iraq. Building Schools and clinics so Iraqi children/people get the opportunity to have education and care. I guess none of that stuff is important because we’re all pawns. Everyone is a pawn in the system whether you like it or not.
#31
Yes, they volunteered. My son (and my husband and I) and others put on an uniform and volunteered to serve and protect this country. We promised to obey the orders of the President of the United States and all lawful orders of our superior officers. Invading a country that has done us no harm and being kept in that country as targets in an ongoing civil war does not fall under the oath of serving and protecting this country.
Keith Olbermann can take his 'special comments' and shove them up his ass. Olbermann is smart & informed but he is the wrong guy to deliver the message. His mawkish sermonizing is exceeded only by his sanctimonious smugness. Olbermann is an aloof and condescending ass. His disgusting habit of throwing papers on the floor (which janitors have to clean up) reinforces his arrogant air of superiority and entitlement. He takes no risks and is blithely content preaching to the choir on a nightly basis. The next time Olbermann accepts the challenge of confronting a guest an opposing opinion; it will be the first time.
75 Dik Says:
"Ok lets not recognize the troops and there accomplishments in Iraq. Building Schools and clinics so Iraqi children/people get the opportunity to have education and care. I guess none of that stuff is important because we’re all pawns. Everyone is a pawn in the system whether you like it or not."
if you truly believe that the end game is simply a reduction in violence then yours is a recipe for permanent military operations--as in FOREVER--in iraq. for, without iraqi political reconciliation, there will never be anything resembling a peaceful and democratic society.
your red herring is tempting to go after, but i refuse. the 'schools and clinics' rightwing talking point has been rolled out for years now, and the condition in iraq continues to deteriorate. why? because unless you solve the root of the problem, you can build all the schools and clinics you want, that won't stop the ethnic cleansing, the death squads, and the insurgents.
and, fyi, there are some that are not pawns. and we are not pawns to "the system", as if the system was some nebulous being. no, the "system" is controlled by those that have the means to control politics, business and int'l relations. in other words, there is a small percentage of people that use us like pawns. but do we have to play along and refuse to see the forest for the trees?
kudos to Keith for speaking truth to power. This is why he's kicking ass in the 25-54 demo
I'm not the most sentimental person in the world, but that made my eyes water up. If only that could be repeated (the reunion of the soldier and his family) by, oh, about one hundred and fifty thousand, well, that would be something to be thankful for.
Dik @ 75:
Nobody is claiming it's not important for us to rebuild schools and clinics. Nor is anyone claiming that our troops aren't doing good things over there. But what good is a school you can't go to because your ass will get blown up or shot on the way?
Let me put it in this perspective. Imagine a war in New York between Baptists, Lutherans and Catholics. Every day three or four hundred people DIE because the Baptists don't like the Lutherans and the Catholics don't like the Baptists. Now imagine the Mormons are sent in to stand between the Lutherans, Catholics and Baptists and keep the peace. Are you gonna make a big deal because the Mormon's built a school when fifty Lutheran children were killed by Baptists just trying to GET to school?
Are you gonna jump for joy over the Catholics getting an hour of electricity a day, when leaving their homes just to go to the market might mean them getting shot for shits and giggles by a group of chucklehead Adventists mercenaries who don't fall under Mormon law, but were hired to keep the Mormon Counsel members safe while in New York?
Are you gonna pat somebody on the back and start cheerleading when a fire team of Baptists rape a 14 year old Lutheran girl and then murder her whole family in order to cover it up, planting AK-47's to make it look like they were terrorists?
This doesn't even take into consideration the $1.3-ish trillion dollars this little exercise in futility is going to cost us. Do you think the Chinese are just going to give us the money, smile and continue sending us cheap plastic crap? That moneys' gonna have to come from somewhere pal, and Iraq's oil isn't going to cover it. If we had invested in 10% of that into alternative fuels by now we wouldn't have NEEDED Iraqs oil. Can you even fathom what a trillion dollars is? Can you even visualize what it could have done to benefit our nation? Our people? If you spent a million bucks a day, it would take you 2739 years to spend a trillion dollars.
You're talking about building freaking sand castles under a fire hose, man. Even if you ignore the 2 million some odd displaced people in country and the 2 or so million that have fled Iraq. Between the 'coalition' troops that have died and the Iraqi civilians that have been killed there's enough blood spilled to over there to overflow two Olympic sized swimming pools. So much so that it'd take 137 full sized oil trucks to haul it all away...and we're supposed to be happy because somebody re-seeded a flower bed or painted a school building?
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
77 mrogi Says:
i find your use of "sanctimonious smugness" to be overly smug
:-)
man.... that was pretty powerful. after watching it for the fifth time i noticed they said louisa, va. i used to spend summers down there as a kid. it's a small town about 3-4 hours from DC. i'm sure deployments are even harder on the mother/wife/kids being in a small town where there's fewer resources.
Samson- @ 78:
So whats the answers to the problems in the middle east just turn our backs to it?
Can you aleast agree that are troops are the best in the world. The US has done more for other countries then any other in the history of Civilization.
mrogi @ 77:
Dude... you get owned on the movie premise so instead of attempting, however weakly, to argue that you decide to move on to an ad-hominem of Keith Olbermann.
Btw, if you consider throwing papers on the floor disgusting then your evaluation system is really out of wack.
Those janitors likely get paid by the hour. So what if they have to pick up some papers and how do you know Keith doesn't pick them up himself after the camera is off?
His 'choir' seems to be getting larger. That must piss you off eh? :)
sorry for the poor grammer
mrogi @ 77:
OH NOES! teh h0rr0r1!!!!111!! Janitors have to pick up PAPERS! Who will think of teh JANITORz!?!!!11!!?!?!//1/1!!!
Oh thank God for mrogi. He's covered the janitors' human rights. Do you know what janitors in hospitals have to clean up, Einstein?
Dik @ 84:
You need to stop meddling with it simply to improve your oil supply as you have been for about 50 years.
Your troops are no longer the best in the world. In an attempt to meet recruiting goals you now allow racists and criminals to join your military.
The US has not done more for other countries it has done more for itself than any other country in the history of Civilization under the guise of helping them.
77 mrogi
So KO can yell over them and cut off their mike?
84 Dik Says:
"So whats the answers to the problems in the middle east just turn our backs to it?
Can you aleast agree that are troops are the best in the world. The US has done more for other countries then any other in the history of Civilization."
yeesh, you seem to have some sort of troop-weakness complex. why do you need to be assured at every turn that we have the best troops in the world? do you need that reassurance because you doubt it? seriously, what gives?
it has become an overly used cliche, but i truly support, respect and honor the troops. i do.
but, this notion that the US has "done more for other countries then any other in the history of Civilization" is ahistorical. if your view of history is simply WWi and WWII then i can understand your lack of comprehension.
yet...
consider:
suharto
saddam hussein
pinochet
the duvaliers
franco
marcos
pw botha
sese seko
turmenbashi
etc., etc., etc.
(if these names are unfamiliar to you, do yourself a favor and look them up and the US support of their regimes before you make such absurd claims)
....*sighs* so many people really have no idea what is being done in our name. i am a son of the american revolution and have had family members in every single war since the revolution, but i am extremely discouraged when i run into jingoistic citizens that are ignorant as to our overseas actions.
navyswan @ 60:
And then say that the liberals run Hollywood! Oh the irony!!! Judge others by that which you damn!
Dik @ 84:
No. Not at all.
I think more accurately would be "The US has done more
forTO other countries then any other in the history of Civilization."But either statement is arguable, since you have to take the relativity of civilisation at the time of any given action into account.
Tigerwong @ 10:
Me too! I agree with Keith... don't make that father go back to Iraq after his vacation home. Bring them all back now. And send Kristol, Bu$h, Cheney, and the myriad other neocon war pushers over to Iraq in our good men's and women's places. Let them fight the "war" they so strongly advocate.
You cant get in the military with a criminal record.. sorry. They wouldn't let my friend in with a MIP charge on his record. Your military is the best and brightest in the world. Sorry...
Have we taken Oil from Iraq??
mrogi @ 77:
And you... mrogi... are a troll... STFU
What is wrong with me? I curse every flag and bumper sticker I see in the cars ahead of me. In my mind I see it as "there...I've covered my base...no go on with the senseless killing machine". I am becoming so angry at this deaf and stupid government we have today. Shame on us all.
Dik @ 94:
Tell your pal to try again, Mr No Cred...
Army Criminal History Waivers
Samson- @ 90:
We’ll you got me there. We live in a shitty world and we’ve made a lot of mistakes and we’re not learning from either. I’m in the National Guard and severed in Iraqi with the 3/116 CAV in 2005. I really just wanted to see what you guys thought of us. I'd like to think i made a difference from the interaction i had with the Iraqi's but you never know.
mrogi @ 59:
Who wants to go to a movie and get more depressed? I have no desire to see movie, nor would I spend money to watch a pro-right wing movie. Most people go to movies for entertainment and escape the reality of their lives for a few hours.
miss_kitty @ 97:
I'm not lieing about that he just tried 2 months ago.. Yeah wanted him to wait 3 years til it was off his record.
cbutterb @ 31:
When accompanied with a giggle and a snicker, as it has so often been by Mr. Bush, it also becomes an insult.
It's also a question of what they volunteered for. There's no questioning that the extended deployments and bait-and-switch leaves are not standard procedure - so it's up to us to ask why this is acceptable. Conservatives accuse us of not supporting the brave troops who fight for our freedoms, but it seems they're just as sloppy when it doesn't affect what they have to give.
Wave a flag, display a bumper sticker, spit on a liberal, and you're a great patriot? Baloney. We had a generation where people recycled metal, where school children kicked in their dimes and pennies, where housewives took jobs in shipyards ... our generation? We wear cheap cloisonne pins.
Police and firefighters choose their careers as well. Do I hear a 'tough shit, they chose their line of work' from you when there's a dead firefighter or dead cop? Do we ignore that these men and women have spouses, family, and friends?
"They volunteered" is an intellectually lazy answer, designed to get around the need to think of our soldiers as more than boots on the ground, but men and women fighting for America. It gives a free pass to the train-wreck of our foreign policy and the leaders 'deciding' things in Washington.
No armor for the troops? Well, they volunteered.
Contaminated water for the troops? Yeah, but they volunteered.
A fake turkey for a photo-op, but not for the troops? Sure, but they volunteered.
3,800 dead soldiers deserve a better epitaph than, "They volunteered."
HulksHeroes @ 96:
I see very few bumper stickers or flags anymore. A noticeable drop the last two years. When I do see them it is either a large SUV (ie. Suburban) or senior citizens (who I suspect are still living in the past). These people make me sick, especially the gas guzzlers. Keep wasting gas so we can continue our dependency on the middle east oil!
Military recruiters are desperate these days, and are actively bringing in racists and gangmembers to fill out the ranks.
What? You don't believe it?
Just do a Google search on "U.S. Army" and "gangs", "racists", "white-supremacists", "grafiti", and you should find some relevant results.
I ask you----how can you build an American SS/Gestapo without any thugs?
The answer--It can't be done. Thugs are necessary.
If you have ever worked a menial blue collar job ya gotta think "douchebag" every time Olbermann hurls fistfulls of paper to the studio floor. Only a guy who carries an arrogant fratboy mentality into his adult life would adopt that as his cool signature move. Olbermann exudes the stench of a phony. Olbermann would defecate on any combat soldier who could not afford membership fees at his country club.
mrogi @ 77:
By your lights, we should tell Keith to piss in a bottle and take it home, because it's an affront to the janitors to have to clean up the bathroom.
But let's consider the criticism. You claim Olbermann is a bad person because of his disgusting habit, but neglect that we have a president who is NOTHING but the product of fake superiority and entitlement. A president who takes no risks, but preaches to the country on a regular basis. A man who ignores polls and has pre-seeded, favorable audiences groomed for him because he's supposedly nervous about speaking in public.
Keith Olbermann didn't declare a war on false pretenses. He isn't laughing about soldiers facing multiple and extended deployments, but bringing it to our attention that this war is being fought on their backs.
Who's the real villain here?
miss_kitty @ 87:
Someone should tell mrogi, that the janitors VOLUNTEERED to be janitors............
right on! @ 95:
miss_kitty @ 87:
but but mrogi, the janitors volunteered for their jobs.............tee hee nice comeback Kitty
mrogi @ 59:
Very simple, Moroni, they are less successful than other movies on a financial basis because the producers are not in it solely for the money. You have chosen to define success only in monetary terms. The real success of the movie is motivating people to act and straighten our crooked political road. The producers are bypassing our biased and manipulative MSM in an attempt to get the truth to the public. Greedy imbeciles like you don't understand altruistic principles, only selfish enrichment at the expense of others which is why you are a cut and run Neocon, I'm sure.
If you don't have anything redemptive to add, Moroni, stay the hell away from here.
Crawl back under your rock mrogi.
Schmuck!
mrogi @ 104:
Oh, and by the way, since I work in the news business ...
It's commonplace to find pages of copy on the floor in the studio and the control room as scripts are either replaced, discarded, or read-through. After the show, they are picked up and tossed in the garbage can or in a recycling bin.
I seriously doubt that there are janitors (unless you're the rare exception) who might be watching Countdown and then wailing and gnashing their teeth when Keith tosses some pages aside.
mrogi @ 104:
Actually when I think of "douchebag" you come to mind, the poster child of douchebaggery and phoniness. And sounds like you have a major inferiority and persecution complex as well. You are sick, pal, get some professional help or go over to Redstate and hang with your fellow mental defectives. Be gone, troll.
mrogi @ 104:
Projecting much there buddy?
Anyways, you are a pathetic attempt to a troll, and waaaay to transparent. A clear insult to some of the magnificent trolls that have grazed this site in months past!
mrogi @ 104:
Bush throws paper on the floor?
107 bmw 528
Actually Moroni was the name of a major character from The Book of Mormon
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2745
Here's a picture
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lightplanet.com/mormon...
Rusty Shackleford @ 112:
His aides put paper on the floor because the chimperor isn't potty trained.
Funny thing about that picture of Moroni, if the link works, is Mormons are against drinking, and he appears to be chugging a long neck.
Dr. Acula @ 114:
Maybe that's what Larry Craig was trying to pick up.
nikto @ 103:
Your got i all figured out dont you... You make me sick. Thats the most bull shit thing you can say. You dont get very far in the Army if your racists or a thug thrust me i know. Your a dumbass for believing everything you read on a web site. Why don't you call a real soldier racist or a thug. Or better yet say he's SS. You might get your ass knocked out.
At the risk of being dismissed as a troll, I just gotta express my revulsion for guys like Olbermann. I grew up around contemptuous patricians like him. The Olbermanns of this world got no business delivering moral lectures to the rest of us. When I use a mens room I piss in the urinal even though the janitors would clean it up if I pissed on the floor. Hey Olbermann, throw your trash in the waste basket. And stop pretending to be a "man of the people."
Dik @ 98:
I honestly hope you did make a positive impact on the lives of the Iraqis you interacted with. Hopefully those Iraqis are actually still alive.
I would say that most of the posters here feel some sympathy for the soldiers stuck in Iraq especially when they watch blackwater corps walking around making 10x what they are. Though I still think that Mohammed Ali was the bravest soldier during the Vietnam war and often wonder why more people today don't take his principled stand.
Unfortunately, given the illegal nature of the occupation the decision on your part to go to Iraq has made you the equivalent of the average German soldier during WW2.
And please don't mention the UN sanctions since the UN didn't authorize the invasion. You can't have it both ways. Fact is the US disrespected the UN as much as saddam did.
mrogi -- you're being dismissed as an IDIOT with an inferiority complex. WTF?
118 mrogi
Does Olbermann denounce the War on April Fools Day?
mrogi @ 118:
Seriously, you are clearly grasping at straws to come up with an issue and apparently anything will do.
You are dismissed.
Rusty Shackleford @ 112:
Only when his lips grow tired from reading.
Ooh...blue collar workers may have to pick up papers.
In Iraq, blue collar workers are picking up bullets, in their gizzards.
Dik @ 117:
How far do you have to get to be given a gun and told to shoot brown people if they look at you funny?
Or... to put out items of value on the ground and shoot at any Iraqi that tries to pick it up as your snipers have been doing?
The papers ending up around boosh are torn from the consitution.
I gotta remember to put the tits back into constitution.
Dik @ 117:
You are a moron. Here, have at it. And this comes from the Star and Stripes themselves:
http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=41005&archive=true
Jackass, you are grade-A prime material for cannon fodder stupid-wise, too bad you are too chickeshit to go anywhere near an enlistment office. You are one of those right wing fat pussies who masturbate while watching the military and who think that reading a Tom Clancy book (actually you may just rent the movie as you may be too lazy to go through the 400 pages of trite that makes a Clancy novel) equals actual military service, eh?
mrogi @ 118:
The question begs to be asked: Are you naturally this stupid? Or do you follow some sort of daily training regime to reach this level of stupidity?
I mean, come on... you are standing on the shoulders of giant trolls of times past. You are doing them all a clear disservice!
Szin @ 119:
Your lost.... How could you say that about our soldiers. You only know what you read ive been there ive seem it. To compare us to nazi soldiers is a slap in the face to and every Soldier/Marine/Airman/Seaman whos died for this courty. Thats sad.. i dont even know what to say. I bet you believe GWB planned 9/11 too.
98 Dik Says:
"I’m in the National Guard and severed in Iraqi with the 3/116 CAV in 2005. I really just wanted to see what you guys thought of us. I’d like to think i made a difference from the interaction i had with the Iraqi’s but you never know."
and i truly honor your service.
but what i find unfortunate though, is that any question from the people of the misuse of the armed forces by the civilian leadership (see, pawns of the corporatocracy) is seen as a slight against the troops. it is not.
The Dude @ 128:
WTF have you done for this country but bitch.. fuck you man. You want to put one fucking example of dumb fuck soldiers to degrade the service of the rest of the military your sad..
Dik @ 132:
and you missed it when i said REAL SOLDIERS.. THOSE AREN'T REAL SOLDIERs and they wont make it very far in the army.
As an Air Force veteran even I'm annoyed at the lowering of standards for recruitment purposes.
It's not entirely new, at one time juvenile deliquents of a certain age were given the option of jail or military service, but those with jail records were denied out of hand. Now it's like the records don't even exist.
mrogi @ 118:
Really? We had no idea
How does a thread about Keith Olbermann welcoming home troops become a hostile discussion on the dichtomic views of Hawks and Doves?
We've gone from Pat Buchanan declaring who's a real American to who's a real soldier.
Phony soldiers anyone?
mrogi @ 118:
Eff off!
I'm a real veteran alright, and have the cirrhosis to prove it
Or is it psoriasis?
In either, case, I got both.
mrogi @ 104:
mrogi @ 118:
As someone who has worked blue collar jobs the majority of her life (line cook, convenience store clerk, cashier at fast food restaurants, waitress, etc), I don't mind the papers on the floor, I mind how I'm treated when I'm asked to pick them up. You know, I get why ad hominem attacks are so goddamn attractive. I mean, it's not like we know what the fark these guys are going to do or have done, since they're so far away from us as viewers, so we watch what they've done to try and discern patterns to use to predict their behavior.
HOWEVER, I don't care if Olberman kicks puppies in his spare time. I don't care if his girlfriend is younger than he is, I don't care that he used to be a sportscaster. What I care about is that I see him filling a niche. He directly challenges an administration that is running us into the ground with a smirk and giggle in an environment full of representatives that seem only too happy to compromise when they ought to be trying to get rid of the administration that's (frankly) killing us. So for all I care, Olberman could be broadcasting naked with a clown hat on. He's doing what needs to be done.
I'm not usually a fan of the whole any-method-justified-by-the-ends argument, but this is some petty assed shite in terms of accusation. So you don't like him. It's not like you're here to convince anyone.
Sorry, we watch what we can see of what they've done. :(
Let Lt. Bourne stay home and send some College Republicans in his stead.
Dik @ 130:
I have no trouble saying that to every Soldier/Marine/Airman/Seaman who died during the Vietnam war or the Iraq war.
You are also under the impression that every German soldier was a Nazi. That is also false. Some of them were young men who were forced to participate knowing that they would likely be killed if they refused (considered jewish sympathizers no doubt).
It is a direct parallel to the situation we have now in Iraq. You have people that volunteered to defend America's borders not to invade a sovereign nation that had not attacked you.
It's just simple and I'm sorry you can't see it clearly.
Dik @ 132:
It's not like being a soldier is the only way to serve this country, buddy. I'll be teaching in some of the worst school districts in the country if the program I'm applying to will take me. That's easily as much service as killing people for Mom, Bush, gas, apple-pie and JAY-sus. How do you know the people you're so pissed at here are not also serving their country in one of the many jobs that don't directly involve shooting people? People act like being a soldier is the only way to make things 'better.' Hope I get your kids, if you ever have any, because no matter how stupid I might think your opinions are (and those are some whoppers), I'll still be teaching your kids how to think critically and ask questions.
And with the way the military are being treated after they get back, chances are good I'll be seeing a lot of soldier's kids in those crappy neighborhoods.
Actually I need to qualify something:
Back during WW2 the German soldiers did not have the access to information that American soldiers have today. The average German was dependent on hitler's propaganda machine for their information and I can see how they could be brainwashed at a level never seen before. That said, the ones in the concentration camps should have been able to see the immorality of what was going on and if they did they probably felt powerless to do anything about it by then. They still should have though.
Today, as during the Vietnam era, soldiers have access to more than just the government's justification for them to go to war and don't have many excuses not to honorably object to going even if that means incarceration (just as Ali did).
"I was just following orders"
That was the familiar refrain at the Nuremberg Trials. Fortunately, it was not enough of a defense for Nazis to avoid prosecution and execution for crimes against humanity.
jesus zimmerman @ 22:
We don't torture. However, as waterboarding isn't torture, In order to get the right information out of Bush & Cheney we KNOW they have, we can waterboard them til the cows come home. Its kinda like a bit of frat hi-jinx. I'm sure they'll laugh too.
=my2c
Dik @ 37:
spoken like a true ditto-head koolaid drinker. BTW, where are you stationed in Iraq?
mrogi @ 146:
Yes, I hope that is remembered when the people involved in the Iraq debacle are standing in Nuremberg.
It needs to be remembered by the soldiers signing up or stepping on that plane to Iraq right now.
right on! @ 138:
Right on right on!
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