Giuliani Campaign Behind Scheme to Steal the Election
By Bill W. Friday Nov 23, 2007 5:50pm
Remember the California electoral initiative that was supposed to be dead already?
Download | play 
Download | play
Not only is it not dead, it's a host of heavyweights for the Giuliani campaign that have been behind it and are currently working to gather the signatures needed before the deadline next week to keep it alive.
Bill Schneider: A lot of the money behind the California ballot measure is coming from Republicans with ties to Rudy Giuliani, and a lot of the effort to stop it is coming from the Hillary Clinton forces. It's turning into an early showdown between the two front-runners, and the voters of California don't even know it.
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A paper coup.
Paper ballots please and take a photograph of your vote in the booth for proof! Kick rottin' rudy's ass !
If we've learned anything at all, it's that neocon "ideas" never die, but just wait for us to think they're dead so they can rise again, in all their fetid glory. They're nothing if not creative in their unceasing quest to ram their agendas through by any means possible.
Phuck Rudy Raw , this is what causes a Revolution if allowed to succeed ! Is this crap even legal ?
Dirty Tricks in the California Election Caught on Video
by E. Love Dailykos
Wednesday Nov 21st, 2007 6:45 PM
I took a video camera up to UCSB and found some folks luring students in with "help us cure cancer" when in fact one of their petitions is the so-called "Electoral College Reform Act" -- a blatant attempt to steal the White House in 2008.
See the Courage Campaign YouTube here, and then send this on to your friends in California. Tell them to keep their eyes peeled for dirty tricksters when they go shopping this weekend. If you encounter a petitioner trying to trick you with a line about "children with cancer," then click here to report when and where you saw the dirty tricksters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UBNV0gmqgI
Last week, University of California student Steven Attewell discovered a team of petitioners on the university campus at Santa Barbara. After discovering that the petitioners were trying to get signatures for the Dirty Trick Act, Mr. Attewell immediately contacted the Courage Campaign to help shine a spotlight on these illegal tactics. The following day, we found the petitioners using their deceptive tactics to get signatures from unsuspecting college students. And we had a video camera.
As you can see in the video, the petitioners said that their petition would "help children with cancer," and then proceeded to instruct well-meaning students to sign several petitions that were attached together on a single clipboard. The petitioners clearly tried to obscure the language on the petitions, using a rubber band to make it difficult for anyone signing to read beyond the first page. When pressed, the petitioners described some of the other issues (besides curing cancer) they were advocating, but their descriptions of the petition language on eminent domain and presidential election reform was unclear or inaccurate.
According to an investigation from the UCSB Daily Nexus, the petitioners in Santa Barbara said that they work for Arno Political Consultants (APC), a notorious Republican consulting firm which has previously contracted to get signatures for tobacco companies, Mobil Oil, and they've been discovered tricking people into registering to vote as a Republican. APC has been in courts all over America, as you can see here.
APC said that their corporation bears no responsibility for the tactics seen in Santa Barbara, and that any violations of election law are the fault of the individual signature-gatherers in Santa Barbara. This seems unlikely as reports are flowing in from across the state of APC petitioners using similar deceptive tactics used to get signatures on the Dirty Trick Initiative.
If you see anyone collecting signatures for the Dirty Trick, let us know right away by visiting CourageCampaign.org/sneaky. Send us your video, your photos and your stories; we'll post them and we'll offer them up when it comes time to challenge the process. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/11/21/183815/07
more details here
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&scoring=d&q=SEC+california+elec...
these idiots so need a good come uppance!
The electoral college does need to be broken up like that, but everybody needs to do it TOGETHER.
No need to worry. Californians don't like girlie men like Rudy.
Hype-Jersey - I agree. We should do away with the electoral college.
Hype-Jersey @ 6:
i agree
the poular vote is the only one i will recoginize from now on
There is also trouble in New York,
Help America Vote Shenanigans.
oops- *popular
The electoral college does need to be broken up like that, but everybody needs to do it TOGETHER.
There is an initiative to do exactly that. Governor Schwarzennegger vetoed the bill. However, I understand that Schwarzennegger favors the current ballot since it would benefit Republicans. So much for the principle of the thing. In other words, the Republicans want to dilute any win by Democrats in California, but oppose having the president being chosen by the winner of the entire national popular vote.
If the electoral college is essentially eliminated in CA, it should ALSO be eliminated in all 47 other states!
Repubs cannot have it both ways, their way in states they frequently lose in (e.g. CA) and then the electoral college ALL or NOTHING way in states they frequently win/steal via voter caging, redistricting, jerrymandering, diebold et. al electionic voting machines, (e.g. FL, OH, TX)
The end of the neocon error is close at hand, and the pubbies fear the expected backlash for all the cronism and crimes their party has committed in the past eight years.
What amazed me most about this whole story is that CNN reported it AND said the big money was flowing in from out of state backers of Guiliani.
Usually, stories like this, outing a Republican, are spiked. It was a long weekend, maybe the RNC's liaison to CNN was on vacation.
corrections to previous post
If the electoral college is essentially eliminated in CA, it should ALSO be eliminated in all 47 other states!
Repubs cannot have it both ways, their way in states they frequently lose in (e.g. CA) and then the electoral college ALL or NOTHING way in states they frequently win/steal via voter caging, redistricting, jerrymandering, diebold et. al electronic voting machines, (e.g. FL, OH, TX)
The end of the neocon error is close at hand, and the pubbies fear the expected backlash for all the cronyism and crimes their party has committed in the past eight years.
i don't remember the eighth day being publicised where they made all the christians stupid.
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 12:
hmmmm. I know Alaska has talked of secession, but did they?
And Hawaii too?
fixed elections??!!
In A-muhr-uh-ka??
The HELL you say!!
UN-precedented.
And the conservatives will still vote for him. They don't care how crooked he is, it's their best chance of winning and to hell with those "values". Yet it's the only chance Rudy has. hell, we've already had 2 elections stolen, what's one more?
Perhaps we should hope that Giuliani is successful in his scheme to steal the California election votes, because if he fails in this plan, which is his Plan 'A', he'll put Plan 'B' into effect, which involves having 'Da Boys' machine gun all the poll workers on election day, hide the bodies, and put in his own 'soldiers' to manipulate the voting results.
Greg @ 18:
We have 2 stolen that we are aware of. We don't know how many others were stolen.
Biff Limbaugh @ 15:
the eight day is the day god sold all the zoodo and suddenly we have neocons
yellow dog @ 16:
Maine and Nebraska use a popular method for electoral votes. That leaves one I missing.
I say let them have it the way they want it... That is, win the electoral college vote and lose the popular vote again. That would show the real face of american democracy... I hope that would convince the democrats to fight really hard to get rid alltogether of the electoral college.
Do you think the congressional democrats will organize some sort of protest like say a congressional strike to force a reform ? What about huge protest movements, similar with Vietnam war protests/marches to force the reform? I really entertain the idea of reform and the coagulation of some sort of people movement. I see this republican move as an opportunity... Can I send them a check :)
Peace,
Laviniu
yellow dog @ 16:
2 other states, Nebraska and Maine, break up their electoral votes already.
I'm beginning to strongly believe the only the thing that will squash this FASCIST REPUBLICAN PARTY is a round from a .45 right between the eyes....SIGH.....now that's a pleasant thought..
If it looks like they'll get away with this someone ought to get hot with doing the exact same thing for Democrats in Texas at least. If people wait and the Repugs get their way in Callifornia we may be screwed.
yellow dog @ 16:
get a clue yellowdaug,
two states already have ceased using the electoral college, if you take away the theft the neocons are attempting in CA, that leaves 47 other states! There is 'your karl rove math', then there is the 'math of reality'!
Let's bring 'em down.
Of course they're cheating. That's the only thing you CAN do when your philosophy can't make it in the market place of ideas. Rig the game.
We know what's going on but for all those not in California Arnie tried the same thing and he had all the business owners behind him. In short Arnie lost it all. As we see today more fires in California and the Bush/Cheney policy is hurting millions of people in California. Mitt, Rudy, John and Fred were all in California for fund raisers and let's say things didn't go well at all. Mitt had lunch at an IHOP yes that's right and people were told they had to give 2300 dollars and just a few came. Now Rudy did so bad he had no comment. Fred lost Hollywood with no shows. John is looking for anyone to give him a dime. Now Ron Paul is looking good in fundraising here in California. Surprise is Hunter who can't buy a nickel. Let's talk Obama and Hillary. Looking good and getting better. Edward has some small support. So folks it's all about the money and Rudy has alot of people trying to divide the electoral votes but it will take alot more then money. Rudy should have a true criminal like Karl Rove and stop the minorities from voting. There are more minority voters in California and unless Rudy gets dead peoples votes it all over. I visited San Diego to help with the fires and don't say Bush's name. Right now Malibu is on fire don't look for them to support this corrupt group. Remember Arnie's having a hard time getting help for California as Bush just gives lip service and photo ops. That FEMA money is called a loan and little of it. What's saving the home owners is the insurance companies aren't playing the games they played in New Orleans because we have a law in place.
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 12:
They are only going after CA. I agree, if we change CA we must change all states. Better yet, we need to go to a popular vote. If we did that 8 years ago, Bush would never had been president and Bushco wouldn't have been able to scare us into the 2004 results. The Electoral College is archaic and doesn't work. In a real Democracy a persons vote really does count.
Again with the He-Said-She-Said crap spewed out by the media. It's "Giuliani vs Hillary" according to them, with all sorts of positives from the Repub side but only one from the Dem side.
The reality is the system proposed by the Repubs is inherently unfair - voting would be collated by districts, which are heavily gerrymandered by the Repubs. Anything going away from the majority vote to gerrymandered voting is thereby not fair, and probably never will be. Therefore, why get rid of a pretty good system and go towards a system whereby the winner can be determined strictly by how district boundaries are gamed?
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 5:
thanks for posting this info...and billw...thanks to you too..I got a letter from Courage campaign a couple of days ago about this......can you believe they would do such a thing under the guise of "A Cure for Cancer?....reprehensible
I e-mailed it to my repub friends.....I wish I could see the looks on their faces.
THIS Californian knows what is going on. Referendums in CA are rife with special interests. There is a whole industry in collecting signatures here. They are skirting the law here if not outright breaking it.
http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/sneaky
the kleptocons will stoop lower than any previous low to cling to power.
Every time i hear that the two front runners are Hillary and Rudy my head explodes.
God, what a mess!
This scourge of the earth will go to any measure to steal power in this country. If we don't stand up to them now, it will be too late tomorrow. They can't win by the rules of the elections today, so they will go to every extreme to change the rules.
Wake up America...or you will lose it all...your today AND your tomorrow.
blatant dishonesty....I wonder if the media will pick it up..Olberman will.....if he hasn't already.
Get five people to testify in front of the judge who reviews the petitions and it is over. Any illegal practice in petition gathering nulifies the petition, at least in Maryland. They already lost.
Imagine my surprise.
Stop the neocon goons.
...
How to explain Giuliani's triumphalism and Thompson's "whatever" campaign? Election fraud could put both of them in office before you know it. Look for the Giuliani-Thompson ticket (sponsored by CheneyInc).
Man, as if I didn't have enough reasons to hope Rudy's candidacy goes down in flames already. Rat $&$#* bastard.
The concept of the ballot initiative system in California is really pretty neat--good way to do an end run around corrupt or lazy politicians. In practice, the signature gathering process is totally broken. I remember a few years back when they were trying to get the recall that put the Governator in office on the ballot, I'm pretty sure one of those same signature gatherers tricked me into signing the damn thing. It was early on before it was as much of a deal as it became, and the explanation by the person was warped just enough (added to by the fact that I'm in a hardcore liberal area, so I'm not used to seeing "bad" petitions) to make me misunderstand into signing it.
I didn't realize what I had done until months later, and since then I've been WAY more careful about reading the actual language on those. I think if I saw someone doing the same thing this time, I'd spit in his or her face.
On the other hand, I'd love to see the electoral college trashed entirely--I come from an area with such a major liberal slant that even if the entire country went to percentage college votes my vote would still be largely meaningless--just piling on. That, and you can't gerrymander a raw percentile vote.
Go popular vote!
This is a big deal. If this goes over in California, no Democratic Presidential candidates will be elected ever again.
I thought the Supremes ruled in 2000 that their must be conformity. If California splits their electoral votes, then the other 49 should too. If this passes, I see this in the courts.
Laviniu @ 23:
Except that if you ban the Electoral College and (Gods forbid) a Republican comes along capable of winning/manipulating the major cities to vote for him and the entire rest of the country doesn't, the Republican is elected, and you have a stolen election. Hell, it's easy to do voter fraud as it is. Abolish the electoral college, fiddle with the votes, and any candidate carrying every major city wins. No thanks, I take the electoral college, rather than have Los Angeles or Chicago or Houston decide who gets elected.
Coffins Draped with Flags @ 7:
But, they are not ridding the electorial college votes. Just splitting California's to gehelp get themselves elected. Either all atates or no California should be the thought of mind.
Notice they don't do this in Texas?
If Republicans feel it is not fair their vote is squelshed by the majority vote of the state to give the states electorials to the Presidential candidate. How about those that live in a district that the majority vote of that district gives the district electorial to the pPresidential candidate.
I guess these republicans just keep hating America and serving their corporate masters instead of its people. For California (R) Darrel Issa to spend time on this instead of taking care of his districts people. All of his district and State for that matter is instead looking out for his own interests of a political party. The republicans. And the Republicans hate and break Unions as they (the repubs) freely unionize their political party. Call it affiliation of politiacal party if itmakes you feel better. They are still a union for Big Business.
I hope Californians, Dem, Ind, Repub alike see this for how wrong it is. But that would be asking for true citizenship of country. They are in the ME society and that doesn't include you.
Be smart California..!
This electoral initiative is just the price that dems pay for being spineless wimps. After 2000 they should have at the least made a serious effort to get rid of the electoral college. I waited, I listened, I heard nothing except cries of a stolen election and that Nader did it all. Dumbasses
Personally, I'd like to see direct popular election of the president, which would tend to work against the Republicans. The problem with this California proportional nonsense is that they only want it to apply to a Democratic state with a lot of electoral votes. Why don't they call for proportional electoral votes in ALL states? Because they'd get their butt's kicked if that happened. They couldn't rely on all those underpopulated mountain states with three electoral votes to throw the election toward the Republicans. Hypocrites.
FreedomOfInformationAct @ 5 "As you can see in the video, the petitioners said that their petition would "help children with cancer," and then proceeded to instruct well-meaning students to sign several petitions that were attached together on a single clipboard."
There were several petitions, including one for cancer research. It's deceptive and illegal, but this is not 'Rudy's' campaign doing this -- this is FOR PROFIT signature collection, in all its ugliness.
This kind of scam is commonplace with signature collection, and it is also used for false registration of voters, such as in the recorded cases where persons thought they were registering as Democrats, but their actual registrations were either switched, or discarded.
Lord Balto @ 49:
There is no explicit right for popular election of Presidents, as Bush v. Gore proved. The solution is to amend the Constitution to provide explicit popular right to vote in all pertinent elections, and to require the Electoral College to vote unanimously for the popular vote winner in each state.
That solves the problem -- but R knowing this is coming, want to break out the EC to the districts, basically overriding the winner takes all state-level election system.
The Federalist Society is behind all of this. Blaming Rudy's campaign without acknowledging that his campaign is ITSELF a front for the FS treason, is missing a major part of the puzzle.
GDliberal @ 48:
The EC cannot be removed by anything less than a Constitutional amendment. What did YOU do to produce such a thing?
NOTHING. You "waited." You "listened."
Our hero.
Ozymandias @ 44:
That's incorrect. California will continue to elect Democrats. The only difference is that CA's EC votes will be watered down at the national level.
There is NEXT TO NO popular support of this referendum, even if it gets on the ballot. Persons wishing to light their hair on fire or blame the Democrats might wish to examine the results of Ahnold's special election in 2005 -- it went down in flames.
Not that people shouldn't be educated on the issue to make sure. But hysteria and slander is not useful.
xargaw @ 45:
That's a principle they used, but they also proclaimed that BvG was non-precedential -- it could not be used in future cases.
General_Rennenkampf @ 46:
I don't like the electoral college because one can win the popular vote and still lose the election. That is not entirely democratic. You see, democrats are only too happy to play almost the same games as republicans, try to "ride" the most convenient course of action. It only comes back to haunt them.
I have no problem with republicans winning the election by popular vote, as long as they do it in the fair war. If more people live in the cities and more people from the cities vote for a particular candidate, so be it. One person, one vote, this is the essence of democracy. Anything else, like the electoral college are anachronistic institutions that don't have a place in a modern democracy.
The voter fraud exists but is quite limited, it doesn't reach the scale you think it reaches, and naturally people need to pass laws and initiative to perfect the system. It's entirely doable.
Peace,
Laviniu
xoites defends Constitution @ 40 "Get five people to testify in front of the judge who reviews the petitions and it is over. Any illegal practice in petition gathering nulifies the petition, at least in Maryland."
I don't believe that is part of the California law.
Here are the initiatives set already for the primary:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_j.htm
That is my home State and I will just be damed if they pull that shit. If California votes were not aware of this sick repunlican scheme, they are going to be well informed by the week end.
They may be sure of that as we all need to get on our email list of voters in that State and make them aware of the latest scheme from these rats.
FreeDUMB @ 35:
You should not refer to initiatives as referendums.
personally, im happy that the pols dont come to cali to campaign....eff em all
and sure, i would love to make sure that we in cali have no fucking electoral power
the 44 percent that voted for bush come from the fucking hinterlands and oc....fuck them all....bush's policies have fucked our state economically
so fuck the gop and the 44 percent
if the measure gets on the ballot...its doomed
Paul in LA @ 51:
That solves the problem -- but R knowing this is coming, want to break out the EC to the districts, basically overriding the winner takes all state-level election system.
The Federalist Society is behind all of this. Blaming Rudy's campaign without acknowledging that his campaign is ITSELF a front for the FS treason, is missing a major part of the puzzle.
* Do you have anything of reference and substance that it is the Federalist Society on its own?
*Why couldn't the F.C., GOP, Rudy, Issa, et al -all be in this together to cheat another election. To stop the investigations/hearings and continue the corrupt enrichment Republicans have become accustomed to providing themselves. After all, they truely feel they are our masters. Watch and listen to them. Shine the light on the and watch them scurry in pain from the light.
Calif (R) Darrel Issa in a Congressional hearing in putrid defense of Blackwater's Eric Prince. The same Issa that is and has been involved in the Calif petition and its funding. Issa is a neo extremist to say the least. Issa wants America to change the Constitution so that one man can run for the Presidency. That person is the Govenator himself that is not naturally born. He wants it changed for Arnold only. Issa is a big part of Calif. problem. He cares little for its voters.
It is blatantly only being done by them in California.
As #49 Lord Balto stated;
" is that they only want it to apply to a Democratic state with a lot of electoral votes"
Robt @ 60:
IS there any difference between Rudy and the FS? Nope.
And the RNC is complicit, without doubt, in racketeering, lo these many years.
The Federalist Society is an RNC conspiracy to destroy the Constitution.
Bushco is part of that effort. Rudy's Star Chamber, with FS heroes like arch-Bushovic Ted Olson, New AG Mukasey, and a host of other Neocon FS members is excellent evidence of the scope of this conspiracy.
[Also in Rudy's group: Michael Estrada, Calabresi (co-founder of Federalist Society), Larry Thompson (worked for Gonzales), Carol Dinkins (worked with Gonzales in Texas), Maureen Mahoney (”the female John Roberts”), Doug Cox (litigator in Bush v. Gore), and others.
Another good review of how Giuliani is Italian for GW Bush.]
What's more worrying is that this is rather tame compared to Giuliani's last electoral escapade, when he tried to postpone the inauguration of the new mayor, or failing that, repeal the mandatory two-term limit.
Bill Bratton, his former police commissioner, never publicly endorsed Giuliani's constitutional machinations. That's quite interesting.
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0140,barrett,28669,5.html
I agree with Otay. It is f***king infuriating the way the media frames every issue as a he said she said debate. No it is not dammit! If fascist CNN would report the facts then their viewers would know what the hell is going on. Imagine if Texas split their votes or Florida. The issue is as clear as the stupid look on GWB's face, the Rethugs are looking to steal another election. Report the news CNN you assholes not talking points. Damn!
@Florida!
@Ohio!
now california............
another stolen election
And where is the good Governor of California in all this?
I am not surprised. Giuliani is not an honest man.
bob h @ 65:
The good governor was removed by vote fraud, right after he complained to Bush about ENRON/Reliant.
He was threatened, and accepted the decapitation, possibly under orders from the C-in-C.
Want to make sure you vote is counted, do the following:
Request a Absentee Ballot,vote and mail it in (on time), after copying the entire ballot.Keep everything that came with the ballot in the mail. There is a number on your paperwork that corresponds with your number on your ballot.
Here's how it works to be sure your vote is counted:
Pick a local or statewide office, scramble up a bunch of letters to form two names, write them in, in a local race or state race.
After the election is over, States have varying time schedules in which they have to publically publish the votes for each position, or ammendments on the ballot, including all names written in. Look for your made-up name, if it's listed your votes were counted, if it's not listed, ask why and demand to see your personal absentee ballot!
I've voted Absentee Ballot since 1970, and it's never failed me!
I've seen this ruse often in San Francisco.
A signature gatherer attracts a prospect with a "feelgood" issue and, while writing the info the gatherer says: "While you're at it could you also help to put this (less palatable issue) on the ballot as well."
Mommy always said: "Read the entire f--king paper before you sign it!"
Someone needs to ask these power mad Repubs if they think these past 7 years have been good for America. We've had a disasterous Presidency, which was the byproduct of vote theft. The Repubs stole the 2000 election and most likely the 2004 election. Bush has never had an air of legitimacy as a result. If the Repubs are succesful at stealing a third presidency in a row by changing the rules in California and a Repub is elected in 2008, then we'll have 12 years of illigitimate rule. At some point the Repubs have to come to an understanding that this is very bad for America and they are deliberately causing great harm and destruction to our country.
If they think Bush has been treated harshly, they ain't seen nothing yet should they steal another election and install another incompetant ass. Because of the "Internets", us center-left Americans finally have a voice which is being heard and it is because of us that all of Bush's misdeeds have been recorded, broadcast, told and retold. The next illigitimate Repub president, should there be one, will not be spared the same treatment.
I'm so sick of the Repulican bullshit. If the Republicans really care about fairness in elections then they should be pushing for elimination of the electoral college system and going for straight vote count across the country. The popular vote makes the most sense and there's no reason no to do it at this point in this country's history...unless it helps certain people in this country continue their power.
this topic is HUGE......lets keep it in the publics face...especially in Calif....but the whole country should be made aware of what the repugs are up too.
Bill Schneider is an idiot! I wish CNN would dump the him. I get so sick of him and his trumped up opinions. The California voter is one of the most informed and intelligent voters in the nation. Does he think he is the only one who is paying attentions. Furthermore, does he think that California is going to vote Hillary? It just goes to show you just how naive these pundits are. Obama will take this nomination away from Hillary and will be comfortably the next President.
Paul in LA @ 58:
Technically, an initiative is a referrendum is a plebiscite. All one and the same thing. Referrendum in the US is commonly used only when originates with the legislature, but that's really a misnomer. Any decision through popular vote is a plebiscite/referendum, and an initiative/ballot measure is just that.
justabill @ 74:
oh snap!
I hope ya powdered you're "Pimp hand" before issuing that BeAtDoWn!
Hrmn, looking for the story in 2003 "Democrats trying to steal the election by splitting Colorado's electoral votes." and can't seem to find it.
Anyone else find that story?
This is a perfectly legitimate ballot initiative that makes perfect sense. Just because California is more forward-thinking than most other states doesn't mean Republicans should be accused of trying to steal the election. An end to winner-take-all is the *right* thing to do, regardless of your party loyalties. If it means Democrats lose the election, it is just a necessary hiccup on the path to a more perfect Union.
States Rights FTW!
CNN may have covered this because Giuliani is bad, but Hillary really isn't much better.
They are both really bad. The corporate elite win big, if Hillary takes office.
Weapons Industry drops Republicans and backs Hillary Clinton
http://www.alternet.org/story/65869/
Hillary Clinton has received the most money from the health care lobby
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/sickos-for-sale/candidates/
Hillary voted for the Patriot Act, she supports the war in Iraq, and she supports striking Iran.
Hillary is on the Arms Committee. Watch "Why We Fight" You can rent it on NetFlix.com Here loyalty is in the wrong place.
People need to stop looking at issues as Republican vs. Democrat and start looking at who is paid off, and who isn't.
How would this be considered "stealing" an election if they followed the law? It would be one thing if they rigged the machines to tally in their favor but by follow standard rule of law and having a ballot measure introduced for Californians to vote on would be called "following the law" not "stealing"?
RUDY is a criminal ! He should not even be eligible for any public office! PAPER BALLOTS ONLY!!! These criminals reign must come to an end. THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! THE RULE OF LAW MUST PREVAIL! We have got to take our country back from these goons and incarcerate the ones guilty of crimes they have committed! FIGHT FOR YOUR VOTE ! FIGHT FOR THE CONSTITUTION ! FIGHT the real criminals hiding in the suits of POLITICIANS!!! The politicians that have BROKEN the oath of office must be struck down, NOW! Fight for the kids if you don't want them in chains.
Brian @ 80:
Great, well you find one instance where they followed the law, and we'll go from there.
Chris @ 77:
Sure, sure, that's why you have to lie to people to get them to sign the petition.
Trying to use the initiative process to change the state constitution is in itself a misuse of the initiative.
justabill @ 74 "Technically, an initiative is a referrendum is a plebiscite. All one and the same thing. Referrendum in the US is commonly used only when originates with the legislature, but that's really a misnomer."
They are different things. As you note, a referendum is REFERRED by the gov't to a popular vote. It's a bad form of law making, the coward's path for legislators.
The California initiative is NOT a referendum.
Surprising to some, the initiative and the referendum are considered separately in California election code. They have their own codes, which would be odd if they were the same thing.
CHAPTER 2. COUNTY ELECTIONS
Article 1. Initiative .................... 9100-9126
Article 2. Referendum ................ 9140-9147
[Basically, the distinction is between public 'ruling' on ordinances and laws (referendum) versus public 'creation' of new laws (initiative).]
The objective is to toss the 2008 California presidential vote to the United States Supreme Court, which will then rule to do a 5-4 Bush v. Gore and place the republican in the White House.
Paul in LA @ 53:
I think a Democratic nominee would really need all of California's electoral votes to triumph in the general election. Yeah, if every state abandoned the winner take all system for states' electoral votes, the Democrats might come out ahead, but to vivisect the Dem's electoral stronghold would be a deathblow.
Hype-Jersey @ 6:
I agree. I want a popular vote amongst the country. otherwise i want all 55 votes going to a democrat! Especially in 2008!
The only way the Republicans can win any future national election is by stealing it.
Guiliani + Singer = the 21st Century New York City mafia.
As one watch you from afar here in Scandinavia i start to wonder if you would be served by a constitutal reform since the present dont deliver and money have,as i see it, a little too much influence.
You should start discussions concerning the constitution or abandon the term democracy.
Am i wrong?
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