Morning Joe: Joe Scarborough Is A Raging Torture Apologist
By Logan Murphy Thursday Dec 06, 2007 7:10pm
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Joe Scarborough is quickly driving progressives and independents away from MSNBC in the morning. This discussion is a case in point: the recent revelations that the CIA destroyed interrogation tapes depicting torture, and Joe goes FOXNews crazy, attacking co-host David Shuster, who suggested the tapes may have been destroyed to cover up war crimes, and that torture doesn't work and is barbaric and wrong.
Scarborough breaks out all the right wing talking points and does his best Sean Hannity impersonation. If I wanted to hear right wing propaganda and lies I'd tune into FOXNews. If you'd like to tell MSNBC your thoughts, drop them a line.
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They must be coming down pretty hard on these guys to toe the line these days.
*
"BECAAAAUSE WE LIIIIVE IN A DAAAANGEROUS WORLD!!!"
Ugh... so disgusting.
One step forward, two steps back. Wonder how his little buddy Buchanan feels about it?
every once and a while he comes off as if he gets it,then he does something like this.....he's a lost cause.
Joe Joe Joe....What a Maroon.
Is quickly DRIVING us away?
He drove my country ass away from MSNBC eons ago.
The ONLY show worth watching there is KO.
Everything else is just white unbearable noise...with the screech of fundies and neocons piercing my brain.
nbc is part of the ge corporate family and should not be in a position to report on national security/defense issues as it is a conflict of interest. we used to have anti trust laws to prevent this kind of thing.
Johnny2Bad @ 5:
Scarborough went to the University of Chicago?
What I find offensive Joe,is the suggestion that complying with the rules of The GD Geneva Convention is some how analogous to treating combatants with "Kidd gloves".
Water boarding IS Torture.Period.
Morning Joe is the best thing that happened to Robin Meade and CNN Headline news.
DISGUSTED? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
viewerservices@msnbc.com; generalcomments@feedback.msnbc.com; phil.griffin@nbcuni.com; joe@msnbc.com; tom.lea@nbc.com; jonathan.wald@nbc.com; lisa.hsia@nbc.com; betsy.fischer@nbc.com
Alright, I hate the corrupt, hypocritical neocon like everyone here but this seems like a decent discussion between these 3.
Would you see anything like this on Fox and Friends?
Do I agree with Scarborough? No. And he raised his voice but he's not shouting down and at the very least you're given an intelligent voice in David Schuster, who is about #5 on the list of decent, credible talking heads with any integrity.
I think Scarborough allows for dissenting opinions on his show, he may still have some neocon in him but he shows reason and rational thought more often than all the scum on Foxnews combined. You guys should give him a break.
You know what I think about Joe? I think he's an irresponsible careerist who's main concern is Joe. He almost seems to get the big picture, for about 2 whole seconds, and then he goes crazy with his right wing crap. He's not even pretty enough to be like William Hurt in "Network". Ass.
Mojopo @ 13:
Ditto that!
Ugh
Fire Joe, and give David Shuster his job. I can't stand Joe or Tucker Carlson.
Joe goes where the wind blows. He thinks the wind is blowing towards torture apologists. He is wrong. Happens.
when you write in be sure to say HOW much you appreciate Shuster and that he is doing a good job with this story- and yes, that HE should have his own show, he has been appearing on all shows on this...Tweety won't touch it....Dan Abrams and keith are BOTH covering it and doing a great job- what the hell is wrong with him ? One of the Most important issues on the table- TORTURE and he picks a fight with shuster- he looked smallminded and ignorant. Maybe we also need to send him copies of the Geneva Conventions...
Joe is the MAN David a JERK
Punchy @ 12:
I'm with you, Punchy. Didn't find this conversation offensive. Certainly did not agree with everybody sitting around that table but it did not come within a bull's roar of a dummie's confrontation fest between the brute Sean and the wimp Alan...
There are a lot of people who are just plain curious and weird. But folks who don't think like me are not necessarily my enemies...
What else can you expect? Scarborough is a scumpublican.
Why does a seemingly respectable news network let a guy like this open their day? Good thing I work at night and I never see this douchebag!
Scarborough is just bat-shit-crazy...it's not that he's an apologist, it's just that's he so scared of what he was told to be scared of...or he's getting paid to act like he's scared of what we have been told to be scared of.
hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it's all running down a teleprompter and he doesn't have an actual thought in his head.
Joe, there's a dead woman in your office.
And earlier in the broadcast, Joe had an orgazmitron moment over the courageous nutcase that is Willard Romney and his speech yesterday.
Just for the sake of argument, let's say that waterboarding works. Let's say that it is necessary in a very few selected cases.
What actually happened is that when we went into Iraq, this administration passed down the word that "the kid gloves are off."
What happened was wholesale torture. Torture not of known terrorists, but of random Iraqis taken in roundups - not to extract information we knew they had, but simply to see if they knew anything!
Abu Gaharib was the tip of the iceberg. We would not have known about it at all if the "softening up" process hadn't been turned over to complete idiots that took pictures so they could brag about it later! It is still going on - at least in Guantanamo - probably in many more places as well.
Another unexamined issue is that these were training videos! How many torturers are we training?
By talking exclusively about a very few (and rightly despised) of the worst terrorists to the exclusion of others, we obscure the real issue. Hundreds, at least -if not thousands of the guilty, the suspicious and the innocent have been tortured in our name.
Cable network news has become so diseased I just don't watch it much anymore. I sometimes will watch Fox just to get enemy talking points to gauge the wingnuttery for the day. The so-called liberal CNN and MSNBC nauseate with non-stop garbage like Scarborough, Beck etc.... in an effort to out wingnut fox. It's all about profit and stupidity.
abarts @ 23:
Yep. And that investigation went where? Nowhere.
abarts @ 23:
Uh... yeah... I think she must have... uh... hit her head, yeah... I think she hit her head on the desk. Maybe she was diabetic or... umm... something.
lee ann @ 18:
:-) Bhahahahahaha Is there such a thing as a Trollette?
Scarborough is wrong (big shock). Waterboarding is torture. Torture is unethical in all cases. And Khalid Sheik Muhammed confessed to everything and the kitchen sink - who knows which part is accurate.
Reminds me of that joke about the LAPD.
Joe, Willie, and Ridley are the worst morning host ever. They look like a group of overcompensating closet cases. Like you just walked into a room full of John Travoltas trying to out butch each other.
David Shuster is the smartest journalist MSNBC has going
sadsack @ 29:
Yes. Sometimes they overflow.
I mean this joke about the LAPD.
One more time: I mean this joke about the LAPD.
A whole flock of fools got jobs in broadcasting thanks to the OJ trial.
Scarborough got his from the Clinton impeachment.
He talks, looks, and sounds like an idiot.
But that doesn't disqualify him from a well paying job dispensing his pleasantries.
Prediction:
Opening left by Joe as he is swept away by angry letters from Irate viewers will be fill by
David Shuster.
Joe's eyes are Waaay to beady for me.
he was a good boy until he got the permanent slot. smart.
When Scarborough takes a dump, his head caves in.
Joe, why was a dead woman found in your congressional office?
-GSD
Schuster is the best broadcast journalist in America. Bar none.
-GSD
It seems like he's gotten a case of whatever Dennis Miller was afflicted with. One day he's entertaining, the next day he's a blast-off moron!
[deleted - do not advocate violence here]
This is an argument between a man and two girls.
The man is right. The girls are wrong
"The reason we sell poisoned milk to Iraqi children is because it's a dangerous world out there!" How can anybody swallow that tripe?
It may be a dangerous world, but at least we can feel safe once we get the whole wide world angry enough at us to attach electrodes to our nutsacks.
interesting.
just the other day, when the n.i.e. came in, joe scarborough & pat buchanan were calling for a congressional investigation of the bushista cabal.
now scarborough is back on message, in support of the regime.
is ol' joe being blackmailed over that unfortunate "intern incident"?
Joe reminds me of an oversized teenager trying to make an impression on everyone by being too loud and very obnoxious. He really thinks he is funny and it comes across as stupid and juvenile. His obsession with every one is so flowery , especially with Erin Burnett. He did'nt even get it when she put Joe's face on the camel's ass. Right over his head !!!!
Here is how to take Real Action....
Call up your cable company and tell them you want Real Basic Cable. That will give you the networks and Cspan and the Wx Channel, plus a few more.
You Can live without all the other MSM nonsense.
Keep your web connection.
This saves me about 40 bucks a month and they can go to hell until things change.
I miss KO.
One more thing.... take your computer out of the room with the TV.
You will see how much you do not miss television.
Try it.
Hit them in the purse.
Lest we forget who owns MSNBC....
Several non-detainee types have gone through the procedure for training or research. I don't recall that any of these people have claimed that it is not torture. Perhaps Joe should volunteer. I'm sure this would clear up any doubts he might have. It would no longer be just an opinion it would be real journalism.
Kieth Olberman, Dan Abrams, Norah O'Donnell, Chris Jansing, and at Times, Chris Matthews are the ONLY reason i watch MSNBC. Tucker and Joe both belong on FOX.
I bet if they publicized that one of the torture advocates was going to submit themselves to waterboarding, LIVE,they get a real spike in their ratings. It appears they will sell their souls for a few extra (perceived) points.
Sounds like Joe just volunteered to be water-boarded.
That beady-eyed big mouth couldn't cut it as a congressman and became MSNBC's 2nd biggest douche bag (sorry, Tucker wins that one).
Joe's logic seems to have skipped a few steps-what he is offering is 2 scenarios-either you waterboard or you offer them a latte, with nothing in between. Joe, has made an ass of himself but not the first time. Typical black or white view of Republicans. Go, David! We'd like to see more of David Shuster, who not only knows his stuff but is capable of critical thinking.
"Torture in the name of the free...more misery for you and me..."
-Wackiavelli
lee ann @ 18:
They finally installed cable in your double-wide! Yay! Now work on those complete sentences, cavey.
Joe Scarborough is a big time phony. He's so far up Bush's butt, he never knows what day it is. Just as this instance. sometimes he just can't control his pent up rethuglican emotions.
I guarantee you that Joe and Tucker hate David Shuster. They both know people are constantly asking for them both to be replaced by Shuster, and their days have to be numbered. Scarborough sure did loose his cool big time this morning!
Waterboarding IS torture!
...and Joe Scarborough is full of Republican talking points.
Hiflyer @ 10:
Eat Shit And Die !
abarts @ 23:
I read that once. What was the deal with that? Was he ever a suspect? Did they find out what actually happened? My understanding was that it was unsolved.
Could you imagine how serious this would have been if he were a democrat? Why it would have been all over the newspapers and television!
[deleted - no lies or flamewars please]
.
WHEN
DID
TORTURE
BECOME
LEGAL?
.
.
WHY
DID
THE
U.S.A.
PROSECUTE
THE
JAPANESE
FOR
H2O BOARDING?
.
It's all about ratings, goodbye joe and tucker,tweety your next.
.
WHY
WAS A
U.S. SERVICEMAN
COURT MARSHALED
FOR
H2O BOARDING
IN
VIET NAM?
.
.
WHY
DID
THE
U.S. SENATE
RATIFY
THE
GENEVA CONVENTION
THAT
SPECIFIES
H2O BOARDING
TORTURE?
.
I agree with Punchy above -- Scarborough's wrong, but he's not bat-shit crazy, and the discussion between himself and Shuster is heated but civil. Since a good many (up to half, probably) of our fellow citizens agree with Scarborough, it's good to hear this argument play out. For my money, Scarborough makes sense about half the time; he's not a total raving asshole like Hannity or Limbaugh; and I find his show as a whole interesting. (I particularly enjoy it when he has Pat Buchanan on -- with Pat these days you never know whether you're going to get the anti-Bush peacenik or the rabid racist xenophobe.) Scarborough's an acknowledged conservative Republican -- I don't see the point of attacking him every time he utters a conservative Republican opinion.
Peter Gaffney @ 67:
.
Because... "a good many (up to half, probably) of our fellow citizens agree with Scarborough" perhaps a start" perhaps?
It's acceptable to be a propagandist ONLY when you're popular enough?
.
That's Right Joe...tow the company line. Your FUTURE is or is not singing these moonbat's song. Go off the page and they attack. You sold out your Conservative Bona Fides for your job but your only salvation is to be true to yourself. Don't listen to this drivel.
Pensacola bedwetter congressmen turned low rated cable news hosts get the bozack
dead intern
How's this?
Hi,
I wonder if you could pass a question along to the pug faced brain-dead douche bag who hosts your morning news/talk show.
Since it's OK with him to torture terrorist suspects in an attempt to extract useful "information" from them - which he speciously claims was indeed the situation in the case of Khalid Mohamud (as if the asshole really knows anyway), please ask him why it's not also OK to extract torture confessions from guys like Drew Peterson.
When you prop up clowns like Scarborough in front of a camera, it simply exposes all of you as nothing but a caricature of a news organization. Why don't you pathetic morons just hang it up already? Money isn't everything.
David Christie
Mojopo @ 13:
Er, actually, you're thinking of Broadcast News.;-)
Had to make the correction because it really is a great movie, and more people should see it. It was considered a light, romantic comedy at the time of its release 20 years ago, but looking at it now, it seems just as prescient and ominous as Network.
Give me a break!
Joe Scarborough has EVERY RIGHT to offer a differing viewpoint. You bitch about them being "Too Fox News", yet you want your to claim your own Fox News.
I'm glad Scarborough said something, whether I agree with it or not. I'm sorry, but my "progressive" news channels would show both sides of the argument instead of just giving one.
yeesh. And you wonder why these blogs get such a bad wrap
mail to: letters@msnbc.com
Dear Sirs:
I have long admired Joe Scarborough's ability to climb your corporate ladder despite the shadow of a tawdry affair and murder scandal hidden in his Republican closet.
After viewing his performance yesterday, berating David Shuster for his Islamofascist beliefs, I am delighted to announce that Joe has been officially Hannitized!
Spread the word that true believers no longer have to tune to FoxNews to hear administration talking points.
What a relief!
I was afraid that you were going to hire someone like Cenk Uygur for your A.M. show (-- that guy has a huge liberal following). We certainly dodged a bullet with Joe's move to morning host!
Semper Fido,
Sean.
jon @ 72:
Here's an 80's Flashback to Siskel & Ebert's review of Broadcast News:
"You personify something that I truly think is dangerous!"
If it's no big deal Joe, why don't you volunteer to be waterboarded and show us how it's not torture?
joe scarbutt needs to listen to himself. joe, do you really think waterboarding is NOT torture? Does anyone think the recipient is NOT going to say whatever he thinks they want to hear to stop this insane and illegal treatment?
joe is out of his gourde. he has taken two steps back from reality, and if he thinks that a "training film" on interrogation techniques is nothing less than illegal and inhumane treatment, he needs to kiss my ass.
They are telling him to go right-wing bat-shit to over compensate for Olbermann, duh.
73 - There aren't "2 sides" to torture. It's wrong (and dumb).
It shows me tha David Schuster deserves a program on Msnbc. Scarborough is a Repug but Tucker should be the first to go. Then we can deal with Joe!
Just ask Republican Joe one QUESTION (Lori Klausutis was found dead in your office in Florida when you were in the HOUSE of REP explain what happened to Lori.)
Joe Scarborough is an ass!!!
I cannot stand that asshole Joe Scarborough, who, everytime I tune in acts condescending towards the lady who does the weather on MSNBC and he is constantly (and literally wishing, I suppose), riding Mika Brzezinski.
I cannot believe that idiot Joe Scarborough has not been called on his continual sexual harassment of Mika Brzezinski and the lady who does the weather for them over at MSNBC...I cannot believe that the execs over at MSNBC allow Scarborough to act so rude to his fellow female co-workers.
Has anyone else noticed his obvious contempt for the women Scarborough works with?
I have no problem with this debate...
OF COURSE I disagree with Joe and his moronic take on torture... but as a progressive, I welcome the debate... David Shuster does a commendable job covering my opinion... THAT is all I ask of a debate... that I'm not represented by some half-wit who can't string a series of thoughts or even sentences together...
There's nothing wrong with watching someone who disagrees with you... just don't make it a one-way (see O'Reilly or Hannity) "conversation"...
This is nothing compared to Bill O'Reiilly's screaming pro-torture tirade tonight. Oh. My. God.
Mr. XXXX @ 82:
I found out the name of the weather lady whom idiot Joe Scarborough harasses all morning--Jackie Meretsky. Thus, idiot Scarborough makes money harassing people like Mika Brzezinski and Jackie Meretsky. Scarborough, when harassing these women, makes it "appear," that he's joking, and, when he is not doing such "subtle things," the ass makes hateful-aggressive remarks that soldifies (Scarborough) being such an asshole!
"Morning Jawohl!" is more like it. He knows nothink, he sees nothink!
rasta @ 11:
Thank you, rasta.
I wrote this in the mail to them:
"I am disgusted to see that Joe Scarborough was making the argument for the use of degrading treatment and torture.
MSNBC should not validate the view that torture is defensible or responsible in any way. By supplying well known talking heads on TV that are "for and against" these immoral and inefficient acts of tyranny, the notion of being a proponent for torture is presented as a valid and respectable position.
Simply because he is so scared of the, I quote "dangerous world", he talks about, doesn't mean that society should steep to that level. He should deal with his own fear in private, and MCNBC should not let him have a platform to let out these inhuman and backwards ideas that stem directly from sadism and fear.
I hope MSNBC will refuse to be an instrument in spreading these kind of immoral and unworthy ideas in the future.
Best regards
"
http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2006/07/scarborough-country-of-dead.html
That's all you need to know about this rubber faced creep.
Who pissed in his corn flakes today? What an arrogant asswipe. He's one of these no-minds that turns up the volume to try to force his personal opinions on you (you know-- when the argument is weak and they know it). Instead, it just made me want to waterboard him (not really, but... ). F*cking dick.
Trittydi @ 1:
Too f*ckin' bad. They have more than enough $$$ to retire (and save their souls).
I disagree. Scarborough did not go crazy on Shuster; it was a spirited disagreement. And for the record, I agree with Shuster. But MSNBC provides some balance, unlike Fox. Shuster countered Scarborough's arguments. And that is what I like about Morning Joe.
I like Joe Scarborough. I hardly ever agree with him, but that is not a requirement for enjoying his program. As long as there is true balance on the show, I'm ok with some disagreement.
djosher @ 40:
Except Miller was never entertaining, even though he tried to be.
Scarborough has a point.
If some folks don't consider watching his show torture, then water-boarding and genital electrocution would be pieces of cake for them.
I get RFD. I think I'm gonna give Imus a try.
"Soy Lattes?" WTF?
Can Olbermann elect another MSNBC guy the worst person in the world?
Waterboarding is not the reason the CIA destroyed those tapes! Yes they showed waterboarding. And it is a practice that should be stopped! But there is something bigger on those tapes, and that is what motivated their destruction!
One of the suspects was tricked into thinking he was taken to Saudi Arabia, thinking that would terrify him into talking. And in fact, he became quite relaxed. The first time he met the interrigators, he gave them the personal private cell phone number of a member of the Saudi Royal Family and told them to call him, and he would set them straight!
Read about the whole thing here in the second half of the article...
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/12/07/the-core-part-1-the-economy-o...
Source is Gerald Posner and the name of the al Qaeda suspect is Abu Zabaydah.
Joe Scarborough is a joke. He's ALWAYS been a joke. Even when was in the house as a rep from Fla..EVEN his co-host thinks he's joke...
Is he on the Ailes payroll?
GEE WHIZ and Morning Joe is the fav of that idiot, LIONEL, on AAR...I keep hoping to turn on my XM at 9AM and hear HIM gone!!! Perhaps he and Joe can go off into the sunset and comfort one another...
Just another reason I"m glad I don't watch CMSM in the morning.
what is there to argue? the tapes were evidence of war crimes committed by u.s. personnel and they were destroyed. there aren't "two sides" to that discussion. further, television news hosts should not advocate breaking the law, or that those who have clearly broken the law get away with it. at best, they should argue that the law be changed. in this case, scarboob's argument would throw out the rule of law. that is why he should be derided.
Peter Gaffney @ 67:
I sort of agree with the rest of your comment that Scarborough is only 60% the batshit crazy some of the others on MSM are. But he's not being attacked because his opinions are 'conservative Republican', it's because his opinions are DEAD WRONG. It's a shame that the two have become nearly synonymous when it comes to foreign policy.
Joe: Torture works because Newsweek reported that it works.
Sane Person: Where did Newsweek get its information?
Joe: The DOD and the CIA.
Sane Person: Well, that's settled then. Everyone knows the DOD and CIA would never lie to cover their asses.
Joe: It's a dangerous world!
Sane Person: As opposed to World War II, when we were safe and waterboarding was done by the bad guys?
Joe: Go away! You're making my head ache!
Imus was fired and replaced by this guy!!! The only show I watch regularly on MSNBC is Olberman. Would love it if Shuster replaced Scarborough.
How did America get to the point where we think there is some sort of debate about whether or not water boarding is torture? I mean, really, this isn't a debate. It's really not. It's torture by definition. A rose by any other name... enhanced interrogation techniques, stress positions, sensory deprivation, etc... it's all torture.
Oh, wait, what am I saying, we flew these guys out in the dark to unnamed countries in unnamed places. Yeah, well, there's nothin wrong with that. WE weren't torturing.
Splattercast @ 74:
No break given. Joe is wrong about torture and it's a shame to see him stain MSNBC this way. The world says waterboarding is torture, including upwards of 70% of Americans. The majority of our military says waterboarding is torture and is counterproductive, not to mention puts our troops at greater risk. There is only one side to the truth, sorry to break it to you. Joe pretends to be some sort of middle man, and he does "get it" sometimes on some issues, but when when it comes down to it, he's a hard core right wing Republican and will do everything he can to help get a Republican in the WH in 2008. I will hammer him on bullshit like this every time, he deserves it. To defend Joe on this one is to defend torture, end of story.
Here's my email to MSNBC:
Dear Folks at MSNBC:
Please remove Joe Scarborough from your morning show. He was WAY over the top in his comments approving the CIA destruction of those torture-interrogation tapes.
I cannot believe you have a host who says it's all right for the CIA to torture people, who makes excuses for the Bush administration' illegal authorization of torture and the crime of destroying tapes that were asked for by the 911 Commission AND by judges in federal court cases. Since he represents MSNBC, we can only conclude that MSNBC approves of illegal torture, too. If you didn't, you wouldn't have one host or commentator indicating it's okay, not one -- he or she would be fired. America does not need to be "entertained" by FOX-like commentators about torture. Torture is a horror that you and every media outlet should be condemning. That's responsible jounalism. Somebody like Joe Scarborough certainly isn't responsible. He's despicable, and by association, so is MSNBC.
I won't watch your morning program.again until he's gone.
Ya, he's right. If you are sipping Latte or Cafe Au Lait in Starbucks or you are on a sidewalk - you dare not discuss politics unless you are saying things that are supportive of the Bush Administrations actions. He chanted that Republican mantra, "This is a dangerous world." That's right ! The world changed on 9/11. Before 9/11 - it wasn't a dangerous world. The first war in the history of earth started when the USA attacked Afganistan. The 2nd war in history is the Iraq war. Before that - this world was a safe world . Just ask the Viet Namese, the Japanese, Niceuraguans, Germans, Jews ad nauseum. Oh, wait a minute the 19th century....uhh, no wars back then.....what about the last 2,000 years......what about B.C. ,ancient history, The Old Testament....yah, he's right the world just became dangerous 6 years ago.
Just sent this to MSNBC:
Regarding Joe Scarborough on the CIA destruction of interrogation tapes: Please, please leave FOX News pundits to promote the pro-torture, anti-Constitutional talking points of the Republican party. Let us have at least one place -- MSNBC -- where we can go to hear the liberal truth. Send Joe Scarborough packing.
Why don't you guys put up the list of advertisement sponsers for the show. Better to write the sponsers who support MSMBC and tell them you will stop buying their products.
While I don't agree with Joe's ideas in this case...I don't think he is too extreme and his points are salient. It seems that too often nobody wants to hear the other persons opinion. Joe has agreed with my progressive views often so I know he has a balanced opinion and I feel he is a person of integrity.
Ya, he’s right. If you are sipping Latte or Cafe Au Lait in Starbucks or you are on a sidewalk - you dare not discuss politics unless you are saying things that are supportive of the Bush Administrations actions. He chanted that Republican mantra, “This is a dangerous world.
I think his point is this. If you live in relative safety and are not in the armed forces...like himself and those other denizens of the UWSide of Manhattan...then don't be so quick to judge. It's different when you are there in the thick of it.
Will someone ask Joe Scarborough if Scooter LIbby should have been tortured to find out the involvement of an outing of a CIA operative?
If Joe wants to debate if Plame was an undercover CIA OP, Should we torture the truth out of Cheney, the Press, or anyone else that would actually have access to the truth?
Should we waterboard Larry Craig to get to the truth?
Should we waterboard Alberto Gonzales to find out the truth of the U.S. Prosecuter firing? Was it Political protection placements and political attacking of political opposition??
meme
I've run out of patience for "the other person's opinion" when it comes to torture. I'd just as soon be hearing people argue that shooting an innocent person in the back is not murder. I simply don't understand people who say a position supportive of the Bush administration's excuses is just an "opinion". It's an echoing of the Bush administration lies that you either believe or don't believe. If you believe it, you're as morally guilty as the perpetrators. And if you don't believe it, why say it?
OK...why the hell would I complain to MSNBC about Joe Scarborough. I disagree with most of his opinions but I still feel he is entitled to them. Seems to me that you believe MSNBC should become the anti-FOX when what is wrong with FOX is how skewed it is to the right. MSNBC is trying to bring commentators from both sides thereby presenting right and left viewpoints. If you don't like a particular commentators point of view, change the damn channel. I do.
AND of course what we have allowed our US military and Intelligence services to do are crimes and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Forget writing/emailing MSNBC and write your Senate and House Representatives, they have the best chance of getting this stopped and holding those responsible accountable for their actions. Make sure they feel your outrage and just maybe they will get scared enough of the electorate to stand up to this administration.
I think this guy should be "questioned" ........... aqua style .........
"what we want to look like as a country" ............. bwhahhaaa that's clear already.
US troops in custody ..... you mean the same ones that rape the locals in Iraq ........ yes I hope they get what's coming to them when they invade and occupy a country for a rouge government and it's supporters, i.e. americans.
Khalid Sheik Mohammad was waterboarded and produced a "treasure trove of information" We know this cause it was reported in Newsweek. The same rag that hired Karl Rove. Nuff said.
Yeah Joe, the world is a dangerous place.. and HAS been for a very long time. You could ask my dad about the Cuban Missile Crisis. If Cheney was president then, none of us would be here. Or just today I was driving in a parking lot and almost got hit by a dumbass who wasn't watching what he was doing. then another dumbass was coming straight at me, driving the wrong way.
I still can't believe these people that think drowning is ok. That's what it is -- drowning. Those same people have framed this "war on terror" (which is I guess whatever the hell Bush defines it as now...) as purely good (US) versus evil (them). The question is, if we do evil things, are we still the good guys? The answer is no.
Then of course there's the fact that people being tortured make things up. It only makes sense (if you have a brain). You're being drowned, you'll say whatever they want to hear.
CJasked @ 116:
You must be new here. We don't change the channel, we watch and post lies and expose propaganda. Changing the channel = rolling over and playing dead. When it comes to torture/waterboarding, there is only one truth, there is no opinion - it's barbaric, wrong and puts our troops and citizens at greater risk. We urge our readers to contact their representatives nearly every day, by the way. Anti-Fox? No, we just want factual, reality based, propaganda-free news.
Did anybody else notice how much Scarborough acted and sounded like Bill O'Reilly during this exchange? Stephen Colbert, watch out!
joe, rupert murdoch on line one.
Logan Murphy @ 121:
Scarborough breaks out all the right wing talking points and does his best Sean Hannity impersonation. If I wanted to hear right wing propaganda and lies I’d tune into FOXNews. If you’d like to tell MSNBC your thoughts, drop them a line.
I may have misinterpreted that statement. What I read is that you want MSNBC to be like FOX, remove or marginalize all dissenting opinion, but on the opposite pole, aka the Anti-FOX, a progressive/liberal bastion of truth and propaganda free news. I am not new here. I have been coming here forever and got a little upset when I saw someone advocating shutting up the 'honest' dissenters. That's a slippery slope on which, if you slide too far, you may find yourself closely resembling far too many of those on the right.
I have no problem calling someone out to defend their opinions and exposing lies but actively working to quiet them just strikes me as fundamentally wrong. I don't believe I'm rolling over and playing dead when I refuse to watch FOX spew their fear mongering/hateful viewpoint, I'm justly choosing not to invest any time listening to people I don't trust or respect. If their influence were growing I might feel it necessary to reevaluate that stance, but according to the ratings FOX is steadily losing audience share not growing. (The fact of which, gives me much hope.)
I love this site and check in almost every day but news will never be propaganda free. Fallible human beings tell the story and they will always skew it to their point of view. A good reporter tries to be as objective as possible but it is impossible to completely eliminate ones point of view. Bad reporters don't even try to be objective and they should be disregarded as soon as they are discovered. Sites like this one help weed out those bad reporter. I hate to defend Mr. Scarborough, but I have never heard him call himself a reporter.
Your statement, 'When it comes to torture/waterboarding, there is only one truth, there is no opinion - it’s barbaric, wrong and puts our troops and citizens at greater risk, is a great example of an opinion, albeit one held by many. I believe your correct and hope the majority of my fellow citizens agree but still it is but one opinion among many.
Regarding truth, someone said, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." The people who wrote and signed that statement intended no delineation between between citizens and non-citizens.
Anyone found responsible for violating detainee rights needs to be held accountable. The fact here is that waterboarding has been found illegal by our justice system in the past and remains so, "Just following orders", wasn't an acceptable excuse at Nuremberg and it shouldn't be here either.
That's my opinion, thanks.
I think the Morning Joe is just boring. His positions are not very interesting or surprising. his guests are either MSBC people or c and d listers. It's just boring. Mika B is hot though.
Someone at MSNBC please give Mika and David their own shows..
I feel sorry for Joe, the right hates him for being too left, the left hates him for being too right, he can't win for losing.
I think what he said was dumb, but the argument wasn't one sided and he gave David plenty of room to talk.
Holy straw-man, Batman!
There are people right now sitting around drinking Lattes? Wow Joe, brilliant rhetoric there. Next time I have a sweet tooth for some intellect I wont have to bother looking on your programs.
Even without the moral and ethical problems of torture, there is a fact that many on the far right don't seem to grasp: information gained under duress is notoriously unreliable.
It also should be noted that false information can be just as dangerous as no information.
But don't bother telling this to people who think "24" is a documentary..
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