Countdown: CIA Agent Involved In Torture Tapes Now Says Waterboarding Is Torture
By Logan Murphy Monday Dec 10, 2007 11:01am
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The #5 story on Monday's Countdown delivered a bombshell - John Kiriakou, a former CIA agent who actually led the team of agents who appeared on the destroyed torture tapes has come forward in an interview with ABC to confirm the tapes DID show waterboarding and that while he believes the technique was effective, he now believes it is torture and is wrong. It's becoming more and more difficult for President Bush to convince the world that he hasn't committed war crimes.
Keith spoke with Richard Wolffe and Jonathan Turley about this revelation and the enormous damage it does to the CIA's claim that the tapes were destroyed purely to protect the identities of the agents involved. They also give hell to Senator Jay Rockefeller and other Democratic leaders who knew that Bush was illegally torturing as far back as 2002, but did not speak out against it.
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The toughest part of being in the Bush administration is keeping up with the latest lies.
Of course this was always about destroying evidence to protect ChimpyMcFlightSuit and his cabal from a future WAR CRIME'S Trial.
BUT the tapes were destroyed to keep those doing the interrogating safe from "al-cia-duh" retaliatory attacks. Why is this guy on K.O.? hmmm.... sounds like war crimes to me.
Waterboarding is torture but I support its use on terrorist suspects to extract information that could save American lives. I am sure the vast overwhelming majority of patriotic Americans agree. The govt should pragmatically deny the use of waterboarding if the squeamish don't like to know how sausage is made. Behind the scenes, our military & CIA should quietly and efficiency continue to do what needs to be done to win the War on Terror.
mrogi @ 4:
that is by far one of the goddamn stupidest things i've heard in a while.
torture DOES NOT yield reliable intel. I can torture ANYONE to make them say what i want them to.
That CIA guy has guts and courage to say what he thinks, even if it only highlights the dilemma of torture -- it's brutal and shouldn't be something the good guys do, and strangely he thinks it got results. The age old dilemma is do you torture a guy if there's a chance it could save lives of innocent people? Maybe dozens or hundreds of innocent people? But make no mistake about it, the US Government IS torturing. The first step is they need to be honest about it.
mrogi @ 4:
Until someone rats YOU out for being a terraist, eh, mr ogi? Even though you aren't. How much terra info would you be able to give them when You are waterboarded?
Just like Maher Arar, and many others in Gitmo... Mistaken for terraists, and waterboarded, and OTHERWISE tortured (Kept awake for days, denied food and water, forced to maintain stress positions for days, blindfolded, stripped naked, kept freezing, threatened, on top of illegal detention).
What say you when the 'enemy' does exactly the same? FOUL! I've heard it. We do it=OK! They do it=FOUL!
Your mindset sucks. I guess it has to do with the physical characteristics of a vacuum.
Once Bush and Cheney get charged for war crimes, won't they
just pardon themselves?
Uh, Mrogi.....No one's using the nickname "War on Terr" anymore...primarily because its uh, how should I say .....bullshit.
lucid fiction @ 8:
maybe in their minds while they do life behind bars.
mrogi @ 4:
Excellent. You have swallowed the talking points hook, line and sinker.
But query: if an American life is the highest valued commodity in the universe, then what are we doing squandering priceless American lives in a country that was no threat to us?
mrogi @ 4:
How can you win the "war on terror" if you become a terrorists nation? Right-wing extremists just don't GET the idea of America, do they?
mrogi @ 4:
If I hooked your nutz up to a car battery, I'm sure I could get you to confess to anything. Whether it was true or not, I could make you out to be the biggest threat to America on the basis of the confessions I extracted from you under pain of torture. That is why torture doesn't work, nevermind that it is just plain wrong!
The truly scary thing to think about, is that you don't realize that you would sell out your own family members if those in charge told you it was to be so in the interest of American safety. Or maybe you do know what and who you are willing to sacrifice to the Government to live in the illusion of safety.
Then again, you probably just said the above to inflame people here.
I'm not inflamed, but I do think it will be hilariously ironic if you were to end up with a cattle prod up your butt because you typed the wrong irresponsible message on the wrong blog (possibly right-wing extremist) at the most ill-conceived point in time, just for "ha-ha's".
Enjoy your First Ammendment Rights while you've got them...
*bzzzzzzzzZZZZZZTt!*
@mrogi, #4
You can't be serious? In the days of the Spanish Inquisition, which history looks upon as a time of unfettered barbarism, people were tortured into confessing crimes they didn't commit. I guess it takes 750+ years of perspective to realize that maybe torturing doesn't yield reliable intelligence. I know that I'd say whatever they wanted to hear if it meant I wouldn't be tortured anymore and that's all any of the detainees are really doing. Stopping the torture. Whether it be simulated drowing or thumbscrews, the bottom line is you cannot trust what someone says when their motive is to get you to stop.
mrogi @ 4:
I'll bet you'd have a change of heart if King Bush labeled you an 'enemy combatant'.
The real trouble is that america(the american people) will take the jack bauer time bomb position. It is a straw man but this is one of the many shames that has been this administration will get a pass on. It is heart breaking what has happened to our country. The spinless dems are silent on this, the haliburton rape case, the list is exhausting. The dems are as shameful in their inaction as the bushies are in commission.
mrogi @ 4:
Please tell me you just forgot to add the word "snark" to your comment.
The truth is that torture is one of his War Crimes, when you invade a country you are responsable for the health and safety of it's citizens, something that we've been mighty slack on.
Just remember everyone, destroying evidence of war crimes isn't really a big deal. Foreigners never liked America because they're just jealous of us and the terrorists already wanted to harm us before we invaded sovereign countries and tortured people - they hate us for our freedom.
(sarcasm alert)
Nothing will ever get done, no one person will ever face a war crimes tribunal, because everyone in our gov't is complacent and will just sit back and do zilch
Concerning the silence by Jay Rockerfeller and others, there just "may be, perhaps" an
explanation for such. Nichole posted a C&L thread yesterday(12/10) at 1:38PM PST
using "Discourse.net" as a site to view/read in order to give one prespective as to
why those individuals who were aware of the torture techniques might have remained
silent. I have not yet reached a conclusion or opinion as to the accuracy of such
Article, but it is worth reading.
pissed off patricia @ 17:
I have to believe this was just a snark, since the spelling a grammar are almost perfect. A true 'murican pATRIOT Troglodyte wouldn't be able to spell all that well...
I hereby propose that we toss this in the "snark" bin...
The simple fact of the matter is that if you fight evil with evil you are, well, evil; and deserve whatever happens to you. Wrong is wrong, and if our nation does something wrong it is NOT right, just because WE did it (as many right-wing extremists would have the other 80% of us, and the rest of the world, believe.) The moment America condones torture, as a nation, we cease to be America and are little better than Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, OBL, or any other evil super villain out of history.
Will justice finally prevail? I doubt it. The reputation of the United States sinks further down the toilet with each passing week under this adminstration. There's enough evidence now to pursue impeachment... shit, there's enough evidence to pursue a prison sentence.
When will elected officials stand up en masse and say this?
Engaging in typical GOP bullshit is one thing. This is fucking evil.
Whitey @ 20:
"Hey! I just bought a Cellphone that makes pancakes and waffles! WTF do I care about freedom?!?!?"
...have I hit the nail on the head?
The administration weren't getting any results or convictions with questioning the detainees so they resorted to torture. They needed results to justify their lies. When they tortured, they got some results, even if the results were bogus and forced out of the detainee.
mrogi @ 4:
And while your at it let's allow Blackwater to gun down innocent people and Halliburton to rape and kidnap for the sake of patriotism .I feel so much safer now. NOT!!!
mrogi@4 Prototypical fake tough pussy. I'll bet you would instantly shit on yourself if someone just would say they wanted to waterboard your pathetic ass. Sadly, bitches like you are running this nation: straight to hell!
Off topic but it's about Olbermann.
I like KO and watch his program when I'm around a tele at 8 PM but I've become bothered with his guests. They are ALWAYS the same people-- Maddow from Air America, Wolffe from Newsweek, or a certain MSNBC political analyst.
Does KO ever have the opposition on his show to debate? Now that, I would love to see.
If he has, please correct me.
Global Warming @ 29:
I wouldn't go so far as to say he has on opposition, but his guest disagree with his conclusions all the time.
Also, if you were airing a show about the sphericalness of the earth, would you have on people who still believe the earth is a flat pancake?
I'm still waiting for the Chinese, lead filled, made in a child labor sweat shop
bobble headed plastic toy set. Christmas is just around the corner.
I don't buy that they destroyed those tapes to protect the identities of those CIA agents for one minute. After all, the Bush Administration has no problem with outing CIA agents anyway. We all know how CIA agent Valerie Plame and her unknown number of sources were outed by the Bush regime for purely political purposes. If this were about protecting those agents involved then agent Kiriakou would be just as much at risk as those other agents involved and he would know it. He would not be on television talking about it either.
No, they destroyed those tapes to protect their asses from any future prosecution and to protect the Bush regime who gave them the authorization to carry out those torture methods in the first place. In fact, I would not be surprised to learn that those tapes probably contained even more brutal methods of interrogation being used.
Why didn't Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ever write a short story called, "No sh*t Sherlock?"
lucid fiction @ 31:
correction
Global Warming @ 29:
I concur, however in K.O's defense, I bet that NO ONE on the "other side" has the
guts to appear on his show and debate these important issues. K.O. is sensible
and reasonable regardless of who his guests are; not something one can say about
Hannity/O'Liely on Faux Noise who, when having on opposition, tells their guests to
"shut up" or has been proven, NOT let the guests present an opposing view.
ShouldBeWorking @ 14:
These people during the Inquisition would often confess to stop the pain and stress of torture knowing they would be executed.
Bushco likes water torture for one main reason ,it doesn't leave a mark on the victims
so is this the first time that "crimes" and "war crimes" has been said out loud on the corporate media?
thank you mr. turley and keith.
terry740 @ 36:
What is ironic is that while it leave no makes on the victim, it scars our country to the bone.
Hasn't Billo been invited on Olbermann's show?
Not that Billo would ever consider leaving his own bubble.
Now that would be pay per view tv - Billo v Olbermann.
Verdillac @ 22:
I much prefer NARF!
Global Warming @ 29:
He has ,they won't.
Remember back a few summers ago when there were "special alerts" about Wall Street being the target of an imminent attack? When flying model airplanes were filled with explosives and we were told to be alert? When small town malls were the targets and we were to be on the alert? Poison pen attacks? Randi Rhodes does a whole montage of the threats. And yet, nothing came of them. Maybe the information was extracted from the terrorists via "enhanced interrogation techniques". Are these the attacks bushco wants us to believe were thwarted? I'm not buying that torture works. Let's see a video of one of the torture victims for about an hour or two after they have been waterboarded. What goes through their minds? Revenge, perhaps? Dude, where's my country?
Global Warming @ 29:
I think it is because he wants people that actually know what they're talking about. When is news supposed to be a debate?
mrogi @ 4:
Be very careful just how much rope you give this or any other Administration when it comes to torture because at some point they will hang you with it. Many nations use torture and its ALWAYS used under the guise of national security. More often than naught, it is used to protect only the Government from those that it sees as threats and that can include its own citizens. Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il and others are well known for using torture against those that oppose(d) them.
Doggiebobo @ 35:
Every other show on cable has a point-counterpoint format. KO's program is original and clearly stands head-and-shoulder's above the rest.
below_me @ 5:
mrogi is a troll and an asshat... IGNORE the prick!
Dr. Matt @ 45:
.
Since when
is torture...
...L E G A L ?
That Americans are actually having this discussion is, well, frightening.
For some, torture is not only acceptable, it is warranted.
For others, it's O.K. when the president orders it.
Most, don't know what a threshold is in regards to torture as IF there is some arbitrary number that magically makes it illegal.
.
when was the last time you emailed msnbc and nbc voicing your support for Keith?
i did....
viewerservices@msnbc.com; generalcomments@feedback.msnbc.com; phil.griffin@nbcuni.com
dan @ 23:
I am thankful our nation's security is not entrusted to leaders with such a childlike world view. Good & Evil does not exist in the physical universe. Like beauty; evil is in the eye of the beholder. Survival is the only absolute. We firebombed the non military target of Tokyo and incinerated 80,000 civilians with the specific goal of crushing the will of the Japanese people. The carpet bombing of Dresden targeted a German city with the same purpose; 35,000 civilians were killed. If we lost WW2, Ike and Patton would have been on trial at Nuremberg. "War is Hell" is not just an aphorism; it is fact. Torture is just another inextricable albeit ugly component of war. Experts on coerced interrogation differ in their assessment on the efficacy of torture. But no military ever has or ever will abandon torture as a option. Layman's opinion's on the subject expressed on a message board are simply that.
Add this to the fact we just told the world we can kidnap them when they've broken our laws and it's amazing what they must think of our country now. I mean, in addition to everything else the past six years... I feel like sending apology letters to every other nation for my own country's blatant disregard for anyone but itself. When will America mature beyond it's adolescent mindset and become responsible adults working to better the community as a whole and not just get it's way all the time?
To Kiriakou's credit, at least he's found the courage and the principles to speak out...but you nevertheless have to admit that it's a bit like shutting the door to the barn even though the rustlers have already made off with the cattle and sold it for ground round. In short, it's a bit late for regrets. It's also not impossible that this guy's coming forward voluntarily at least in part (perhaps even in large part) because he knows that this scandal could take him down as well and he's hoping to save himself from the hot seat -- not because he's finally seen the light and realizes that this is the right thing to do. Interesting question, isn't it? If the tapes had never been made or if their destruction had not made the news, would he still have chosen to come forward or would he have shrugged it off with the excuse that what the public doesn't know won't hurt us?
Max-1 @ 48:
Agreed. This is frightening. I do not find torture acceptable in any form. Much has been said in the past regarding its usefulness in intelligence gathering or morality but for me, the thing I fear the most is that at some point, torture will be used by this Government against ALL persons or groups that it deems a threat. After all, anyone can be labeled by the Government an "enemy combatant" or "terrorist".
Maybe using water-boarding on the CIA chief to determine if they destroyed the tapes. I mean, they say it not torture, so wouldn't it be effective on him?
mrogi @ 50:
A bunch of fanatics in caves scares you that much that you feel we need to resort to the same level of defense we did in WWII? If so, I hope you've signed yourself up for the military and are donating all unneeded supplies to the cause. Personally, I don't think a handful of crazed radicals in the middle east are nearly as much a threat to our nation as folks who would happily toss our global reputation down the drain, disregard long-standing rules of law and rip up the Constitution just to show how tough we are.
Pelosi, Reid and Rockefeller, et al, are worse than worthless.
They're aiders and abetters of criminality, malfeasance and, yes, treason.
Damn them all.
mrogi @ 50:
Ann you are the "most laymen" of all posters, so thanks for admitting that your comments
can be totally ignored.
Verdillac @ 25:
That is EXACTLY correct... why should they worry about anyone else but themselves? As long as they're fine, then everything else is fine. And since they're not directly responsible for whatever happens to whoever is suffering, then why should they move a finger to do the right thing?
Doggiebobo @ 57:
Should read "And you......"
mrogi @ 50:
Hmm. I think your history is a little wrong. The Germans started bombing cities first in England. Up until that time neither side bombed cities only military sites .After they did this we started. The U.S military was well aware of the Japanese plans to use women and children as fighting forces, and this made the cities targets.
"A bunch of fanatics in caves" accomplished what the Axis powers never came close to doing. Those cave dwellers brought down our two tallest skyscrapers, killed 3,000 civilians on American soil, and successfully launched an aerial attack that struck at the very core of the United States defense establishment: The Pentagon. Underestimate your enemy at your own peril.
SupportIT @ 54:
Curses! You beat me to it! Maybe they can use the technique on new appointees to the WH to see if they're honest. Mukasey just missed out on that...
mrogi @ 61:
Wasn't that what Bushco did when they ignored the intelligence on these guys,but made plans to invade Irag even before 9/11?
mrogi @ 61:
I thought the subject matter of this C&L thread was "torture"(right or wrong); not
re-living WWII in Europe or Japan and not the tragedy of 911.
mrogi @ 61:
If you reich-wingers were so "concerned" about the enemy, you would hold herr dubyah accountable for not capturing or killing bin Laden.
Mrogi@61 Hey sitemonitor, you on break? Please run this human repub talking point. What a waste of human resources.
Our Govt has done more damage to our country far more than what Al-Quieda could have done. we destroyed most of the bill of rights, habeus corpus, and the constitution. We don't have a particular race of people that define who we are. we are a mix culture, multi national descent that are only define by the things that this govt have destroyed. That Constitution, a piece of paper is what gave birth to our identity.
Doggiebobo @ 64:
That's true but mrogi can not justify is arguments so he digresses.
It’s becoming more and more difficult for President Bush to convince the world that he hasn’t committed war crimes.
And I'd like to know why the criminal piece of sh** isn't in prison yet!
4
mrogi Says:
That was an excellent post. I know that you got the reaction that you were looking for. Hey Sitemonitor could you explain how this is not flamebaiting that has been an excuse in the past to stop posts? It's as plain as day to me.
[We're taking care of this problem. Thanks-Sitemonitor]
dan @ 12:
No they don't. At all!
Why is there even an argument about waterboarding being torture to start with. It has never been considered anything but in the past. Must be like the new math.
Joe O. @ 32:
Perhaps a Mr. Richard Cheney was present at one (or more) of these "harsh interrogation" sessions???
paranoia @ 67:
Sounds like the terrorists should be the one's claimin 'Mission Accomplished" doesn't it?
Dr. Acula @ 73:
Hey Doc...are you referring to "Dickhead"? Sorry, never have seen nor used Mr. for
that prick.
If a hand full of cave dwellers can destroy our country, then woe be to that country for constructing a fragile govt. 9/11 attack wouldn't have stop me from being an American. 9/11 attack wouldn't have stop me from being a Christian. For Bush, 9/11 change everything!
For Bush 9/11 meant no longer turning the other cheek and seek revenge on your brother. 9/11 meant to give up your freedom for security, 9/11 meant to kill over 600.000 innocent civilians for the price of 3,000 that died in the twin towers. 9/11 meant to prosper from the killing and the money changer at the temple of the White House to every cronies of the Bush family.
Sometimes principle is much stronger form of foundation then revenge. A handful of cave dwellers could not even make a dent upon good principle. But a govt base on lies and deceit are easily fell upon by a handful. Instead of fighting one enemy of principle, the Bush cabal are fighting the many enemies of lies and deceit, here and abroad.
AbbieHoffmansghost@72 You are so correct. The fact that we are debating the virtues of waterboarding is chilling. Dubyah, history is going to kick your ass!
Hey Doggie -- I used "Mr." to refer to Dickhead in the way KO uses "Sir" when referring to Busholini. Has my thought crossed anyone's mind? I think we all agree there's no way the tapes were destroyed to prevent the identity of the interrogators as claimed by al CIA da.
paranoia @ 76:
And the MSM is an enabler, so they are in the most part equally as guilty.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Some accompaniment to waterboarding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8
MSM?
keep the
CIA guys safe
from al Quida
funny
heh...
keep the CIA guys
safe from jail
more like it
heh...
Not all news shows have to be in a debate format. I don't feel I am being denied information because KO show is not in a point-counterpoint format. Right now those shows are a waste of time because they are mostly poorly run debates where nothing is learned.
Keith did invite Bill'O on his show. I don't believe he has yet heard a reply.
I emailed Joe Scarborough and told him he was fast becoming the BOR of MSNBC with his whole torture is the American way.
Truthfully I can no longer keep up with the news. I can't keep up emotionally, mentally.... Michelle Malkin is selling teddy bears named Mohammed from her site. Her "adult" response to the overseas situation. I truly believe torture is wrong even when I want some people to be tortured. I know at the end the day they will tell me I was right all along but it will it be an empty soulless admission.
Dr. Acula @ 78:
It is possible, isn't it, that the CIA is not up-to-date with modern technology and
did not know that it's very easy to black or blank out the faces of the interrogrator
in order to concel their identities? I mean, after all, they have proven in instances
that they are not very efficient...snark
ShouldBeWorking @ 14:
Don't forget the Salem witch trials. Many innocent people were tortured into confessing to crimes (of witchcraft) that they did not commit.
Kiriakou is a liar. Abu Zubaydah never gave the CIA actionable intelligence even when he was waterboarded; but only Saudi interrogators. All of the names he gave to the Saudi interrogators are all now dead, including the one ISI general who supposedly wired $100,000 to Mohammaed Atta (damn I wish I had the link handy with me at work). Once again the media is missing the damn mark!!!
mrogi @ 61:
You still believe a bunch cave dwellers with box cutters outsmarted NORAD, the entire intelligence and defense community. Now thats the REAL conspiracy.
Don't mind the mental midget and professional troll mrogi . He sits all day, watches TV, plays on his mom's computer, and recycles his sad act on all the blogs. The last time he saw p*ssy was on his way out between his mamma's legs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-posner/the-cias-destroyed-inter_b_7...
I love Turley on Keith and Randi Rhodes' shows. This man needs a syndicated radio show or cable show ASAP
Death Star @ 80:
Say what?
chimpy is committing crimes as I type. chimpy believes he's invincible, we don't deserve such greatness.
I bet those tape show various types of torture and murder. All under chimpy's watch once again.
Just a thought, what if chimpy is paying the US public back for not reelecting his pappy? We all know he's petty, immature and vindictive.
Ex-agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'
Al Qaeda suspect Abu Zubayda gave up valuable information after being waterboarded, a former CIA agent involved in other parts of his interrogation told CNN today. John Kiriakou said he did not want to perform the "entirely unpleasant" procedure branded by critics as torture, but added it brought results that stopped attacks and saved lives.
Sounds like he's now spouting the "company line", er, propaganda.
mrogi @ 4:
It figures your mind would relate human life to making sausage.
You are about as patriotic as chimpy.
What makes your myopic mind believe the info is true?
Torture is for sadists.
You're pathetic.
A war on "terror" is never won
Dr. Acula @ 95:
They're telling a little lie to cover up for the big lie! It's quite a diversionary tactic!
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 94:
I have wondered also what high up muckity-muck from Bushco may have been in the tapes? That may be the real reason for them to be destroyed!
terry740 @ 98:
See my previous comment @ 73...
Danger @ 91: Many thanks for the article/information. All "new" to me; but
very, very enlightening as to specifics of Ab Zubaydah "opening up".
Jonathan Turley needs to be the next Attorney General.
ray @ 1:
if your neighbor was killed -- and during its investigation YOU were waterboarded -- would you consider it torture?
Torture is a method not an object of war.
You declare war on nations.
And in this case no war was ever declared, but an Authorization to Use Force, presumably for missle strikes, if certain caveats were matched, which boosh never bothered to do.
Dr. Acula @ 93:
What?
KittyKatMan @ 90:
Wow. Talk about pathetic. All it does is troll boards all day making asinine comments
mrogi @ 61:
Although there's no doubt that 3000 people killed was a tragedy, funny how to the reichwing when we reached 3000 US soldiers dead it was "only a number."
Bush:" I ... eh ... hehehehehe ... look, it saved lives. It saved lives. And personally ... I uh ... I uh ... heheheheheh ... I don't think this person is in a position to really judge whether or not this is torture. We don't torture. Our lawyers have clearly stated that. Do you want to be the one to go to those folks who's lives have been saved and say to those folks 'Your life was not worth it?' I don't think so. Next question.'
They destroyed all the tapes, but they forgot to erase all the perpetrators. Sloppy Bushies!
mrogi @ 4:
Torture does not work and only makes true Patriots look bad.
If this guy was off the reservation Sybil Edmonds would be on TV.
Sib
yel Edmondshttp://www.justacitizen.com/
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5331
He only believes it was wrong, because he got caught doing it.
Waterboard all of them, tape it, put it on TV, and let America vote by cell phone. Kinda like American Idol. It might be the only way to get their attention, and they can stay on the couch.
Edwin @ 113:
I take it you work as a media consultant during the day?
If not, you should.
:-)
Cheers!
Sibel's case involves illegal weapons sales, money laundering, drug trafficking, nuclear black market, terrorism and the corruption of the US Govt.
Sibel has already named names (though not all) - Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, William Cohen, Marc Grossman, Eric Edelman, Dennis Hastert, Bob Livingston and others - and she has also named the countries involved: Turkey, Israel, Pakistan, the other 'Stans - and of course the US.
Then this from the Breeden Report. pg. 482.
It is difficult to imagine a more flagrant abdication of duty than a director rubber-stamping transactions that directly benefit a controlling shareholder without any thought, comprehension or analysis. In fact, many of the consents that Perle signed as an Executive Committee member approved related-party transactions that unfairly benefited Black and Radler, and cost Hollinger millions.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/868512/000095012304010413/y01437e...
My favourite passage.
It is, of course, possible for a conflicted board member to act at least somewhat responsibly. As a conflicted Executive Committee member, however, Perle did not. Rather, his Executive Committee performance falls squarely into the “head-in-the-sand” behavior that breaches a director’s duty of good faith and renders him liable for damages under Delaware law
Got criminals?
Same guy.
Pentagon adviser Richard Perle, who will become a key promoter for war against Iraq, is already saying that “one or more governments” must be responsible for preparing the 9/11 attacks. Perle erroneously assumes that the hijackers couldn’t have learned to fly airliners “without the assistance of large governments.” [wap.Sep.12.2001]
"They also give hell to Senator Jay Rockefeller and other Democratic leaders who knew that Bush was illegally torturing as far back as 2002, but did not speak out against it."
Which is why the Democrats will not impeach Bush, as Glenn Greenwald has said many times before why it won't happen.
mrogi @ 50:
The World civilizations were and are built upon trade and cooperation between willing partners,
humanity has a long history of this, witness our languages and customs.
People were trading goods and ideas and culture between Europe and India 5000 plus years ago,
archaeology artefacts and the designs on them prove this.
You look at TV footage of Iranians, a good percentage of them look British or European, we have common roots.
Just because the 1% at the top of a country are sociopathic killers and thieves, doesnt mean the common people hate everybody else.
Prosecute all of these assholes. Enough already.
http://www.google.com
http://www.yahoo.com
http://www.msn.com
very interesting, but I don't agree with you
Idetrorce
Hi,
I'm oOgerryOo.
Just saying hello - I'm new.
Hey,
I'm Gerry.
Just saying hey - I'm new.
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