Desmond Tutu: Terror Detentions Like Apartheid Era
By Logan Murphy Monday Dec 10, 2007 3:04pm
Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused the United States and Britain of pursuing policies like those of South Africa's apartheid-era government by detaining terrorism suspects without trial.
At an event to commemorate the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UNDR) today, the Nobel laureate said the detention of suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban members at the US naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was a "huge blot on a democracy".
"Whoever imagined that you would hear from the United States and from Britain the same arguments for detention without trial that were used by the apartheid government," Archbishop Tutu said. Read on...
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Remember Biko!
Communities tend to be guided less than individuals by conscience and a sense of responsibility. How much misery does this fact cause mankind! It is the source of wars and every kind of oppression, which fill the earth with pain, sighs and bitterness.
-Albert Einstein, 1934
A lot of people imagined it. I know I did. The idea that we didn't see this coming is ostrich-like. Apparently some of those people chose to put those images into reality. Shows you who the government will hire (or farm its dirty tricks out to) these days. A huge blot on a democracy indeed.
Well, I sure can't disagree with him when he says, "the detention of suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban members at the US naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was a “huge blot on a democracy”.
I would go farther to say that the bush administration has been a humongous blot on our democracy.
I hate to agree with ANY religous nut, but I have to with Tutu.
“Whoever imagined that you would hear from the United States and from Britain the same arguments for detention without trial that were used by the apartheid government?”
Who? Anyone who knew George Bush or Dick Cheney, that's who. Molly, The Texas Observer, Ann Richards, Jim Hightower and the whole Texan progressive community (yes, there are a lot of us) told you and told you that this is what would happen if you allowed that creep to get any power, but did anyone listen?! Hell, no! What he is doing is just an extension of what he did as governor of Texas. He drove the state to the point that we can no longer say, "Thank God for Mississippi" and he is driving the US down the same path into inconsequence and disaster.
Wild animals never kill for sport. Man is the only one to whom the torture and death of his fellow creatures is amusing in itself.
- James Anthony Froude
The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881), Russian novelist
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.
- Friedrich Nietzche
casper46 @ 5:
Well at least your honest that you hate all religious people.
We don't torture people in America and people who say we do simply know nothing about our country.
- George W. Bush [Interview with Australian TV - October 18, 2003]
One thing is for certain: There won't be any more mass graves and torture rooms and rape rooms.
- Bush [press availability in Monterrey, Mexico, Jan. 12, 2004]
Shamefully we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management, U.S. management.
- Edward Kennedy
dkm @ 6:
I listened to the people from Texas and what they said scared me. Everyone said this guy will be the ruination of the country and they sure were right.
Tutu makes a thin comparison of the US and Britain "War on Terror" to South African apartheid and C&L publishes it. Tutu has REPEATEDLY made the statement that the Israeli occupation of Palestine is analagous if not worse than South African apartheid and C&L repeatedly looks the other way. Strange, no? C&L was also silent as Israel bombed Lebanon and Gaza into the stone age all through last year. I'd like to see more of Tutu's valuable critique of US policy AND of US support of Israeli apartheid on C&L.
Stephen "whoa" Biko indeed. 40 some Sowetto residents detained and tortured to death. Revisit this time and the similarities with the current administration, CIA and Pentagon are scary. That is, if you're still objective and haven't drunk the Kool-Aid.
"Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused the United States and Britain of pursuing policies like those of South Africa’s apartheid-era government"
Right-winger: "So what's wrong with that? Those aparthied-era policies were pretty cool."
don't hate me @ 9:
When & where did he say that ?
Whoever imagined people like Cheney and Bush would be in office; would have stolen 2 elections; would be dismantling the Constitution; and, with their corporatist buddies, leading us down the long hill to fascism???!!
Thank you Archbishop Tutu. I hate to admit this but our nation's behavior since 9/11 has clearly shown the world that we, sadly, deserved to be attacked. I know this is going to piss off a lot of people, but we need to begin to be honest about what we have done.
I've come to the conclusion that terrorist are just the people we have pissed off and usually not for a good reason.
JerryM @ 13:
Around May of 2004.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E6D7113CF930A25756C0A...
I think Tutu should stick closer to home with his criticisms. Specifically, he might want to say something about those ridiculous South African officials who think that AIDS is not caused by HIV, and that you can cure it with garlic and olive oil.
Apartheid is stronger than ever.
You tell 'em, Tutu.
A wise man's liberator is The Dummy's terrorist.
A freedom-fighter is the Zionist Fascist's enemy, the anti-semite.
A revolutionary is the Status Quo's nightmare.
BitterScribeSays@18 Just listen to the merit of the argument, dope. Because he's simply right. You sound like one of those southern sheriffs in the 1960's that would justify their apartheid by saying " You yankees deal with your problems, we'll take care of our coloreds."
pissed off patricia @ 16:
Didn't Osama freak out over America troops being in Saudi Arabia?
A dismal era in American history that so many here among us have allowed for and tolerated such amateurish, reckless and un-American leadership to exist this long. THANK GOD for the that series of tubes we know as "the internets"
Bush doesn't give a shit what a black man says.
Bitter Scribe @ 19:
And Tutu is responsible for the ignoramuses in his nation exactly how? South Africa and Tutu have been fighting the good fight for years, while America languishes in its Barcolounger, eating junk food and trading its civil rights for another season of 'Desperate Housewives.' Yes there are those in South Africa who believe teenaged male circumcision will prevent AIDS. They are exactly as stupid as Mike Huckabee, who has much less of an excuse than they do.
Without Tutu and Mandela, does anyone believe that the white rulers of South Africa would have better handled the AIDS plague among the black population? Not likely.
Rusty Shackleford @ 25:
Being steward of the pits of hell, he can't hear what ANYONE says.
Tutu's statement shows real mastery of the obvious.
"Oh, you've put on quite a few pounds there, haven't you?"
Real useful.
A Minister says somthing horrible and atheists show up in droves.
A Bishop says somthing great and most of them pretend he doesn't exist.
CD @ 28:
Love such sweeping general statements. Tutu is a fantastic beautiful man, but what he pointed out is already obvious obvious obvious the world over. Especially to the country being held hostage by a madman.
crazytown @ 29:
Did I say "all"?
no.
Did I say "most"?
yes.
Take a look at how many posts there are about Rachel Maddow and tell me I'm wrong.
Albatross @ 26:
Thank you, well said. How sad that our country continues to allow these liars and thieves to take even our good name away. The shipyard unions in the Bay Area refused to load and unload containers from SA, and it led to us supporting the rights of black south africans and help make a better world. Now look at us.
CD@30, It's my own frustration you're hearing. Nobody listens to the Dalai Lama either.
Or the pope. "Don't stomp people". Oh yea, sure, ok, right away.
Let's tell the Burmese how we feel for them, and tell the paranoid fringe that dominates them to stop.
I really got excited when the u.s. gov't said they'd freeze their bank accounts. That would have made quite and effective point. Did it happen? Hell no!
ACTION is the only thing that works.
casper46 @ 5:
I agree with your apathy. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the Dalai Lama are all prime examples of where religion and politics SHOULD mix: civil rights and equal treatment.
These great men never pushed their "brand" of religion over another. They pushed for justice to all.
don't hate me @ 18:
Be interesting to hear him visit that now !
Aren't many people in the world with more "ethical capital" than Tutu. We can only hope that truth and reconciliation commissions become a lasting invention for societies in strife around the world.
Perversely, in our local news, the University of SAINT Thomas disinvited Tutu from speaking on their campus because he would be too "controversial." They came around to the idea that maybe they were a little rash but it wasn't that hard to find another venue in the Cities within hours who were happy to host Tutu. Wasn't clear from the news whether there will be a faculty advisor looking for a tenure track elsewhere after giving the administration the opportunity to act like a bunch of Yahoos.
Doubly perversely, literally within days the University received the largest single individual donation in the history of a higher ed institution in the state. You live long enough and these instances come up when you shake your head in wonder at who gets rewarded and when and you wonder why.
Tutu is pulling his punches. If he truly talked turkey, he would call for the people of the united States to convene a Truth Commission once this nation is rid of the Bush Administration.
CD @ 8:
Just religious nuts. People who are unable or unwilling to pull their head out of their ass and continues to deny any semblance of rational enlightenment.
Religion comes form the downfall of Myth. It's like Myth, but with man made intentions and a dogma that is their key to their power.
We are still living in the decline of the Roman Empire. We have been since the Rennesance. The Republic became an Empire, the Empire became a Theocracy.
Each step is one step moved UP for the Rich. Republic is hard to control. Fear and military might makes an Empire, and complete indoctrination from birth creates a theocracy.
It would be best to say that The Empire will be short lived, the goal would be to get all the people so stupid and uneducated that they will fall on their knees and obey.
Then the rich are wearing all your gold.
SM @ 33:
Here here! Tutu, Dali Lama and Mother Theresa, even John Paul never got grief from me. These are examples of good people who are intelligent and thoughtful. Religion does not have to punish the world as it is doing. They are proof.
Neil @ 38:
Religion isn't punishing the world.
kudos to Archbishop Desmond Tutu for speaking truth to power. the authoritarian cultists panties will be in a bunch over this
The true function of genuinely reverent people who are recognized like Tutu and all the aforementioned is to comfort and transmit love to suffering people. That is invaluable.
But the pounding goes on...and on...and on...and on....and on. They make not a whit of difference to relieve the SOURCE of their suffering.
We could see, when bush and his wife visited the last pope the pope could hardly bear bush's presence. Yeah. That changed alot didn't it. Same result with the Dalai Lama, zip, nothing, and the pounding worsens.
So that is how, practicing buddhist that I am personally, I'd rather see them behaving a bit more like Thomas Merton.
There's something to be said for defending the weak on your own two feet and getting out there being SEEN with the people who need you and fighting at their side.
....Not high and dry and just saying nicey nice things. I don't respect that.
Bitter Scribe @ 19:
Oh yeah. He should do that. God forbid someone from the outside criticized the good ol' US of A, right? You know what they say about individuals who can't take criticism? It's called low self esteem and an ego the size of Manhattan. Instead of cleaning house and agreeing with him, you're showing everyone on here what an ass you are. So, I guess, what we should take from your post is that, by comparison, the U.S. is not as evil as it's cracked up to be, there is after all, AIDS and HIV.....get a grip.
CD @ 30:
Quibbling over semantics again? Instead of whining about the messenger, and pathetically trying to divert attention, why don't you heed his warnings and take what he's saying to heart?
McDuff @ 43:
Making personal attacks are we?
Instead of whining about the messenger, and pathetically trying to divert attention, why don't you heed my warnings and take what I'm saying to heart?
Dr. D @ 12:
Glad to see some one besides me knows.
CD @ 28:
Ain't that the God-damed truth!
When Tutu says stuff like this, he emboldens the terrorists.
They're winning, ya know.
[/snark]
Joe @ 11:
Holy Shit! That did not take long. The Jewphobes come out. Israel is NOT an apartheid state despite bullshit attempts to describe it as such, Only in the little minds of Jewphobes.
Oh, how soon I forget that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic or "Jewphobic." I suppose this makes Desmond Tutu a "Jewphobe"--there is the insane proposition, my friend.
Miguel @ 48:
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