Scarborough: That Pesky Liberal Media!
By bluegal Monday Dec 10, 2007 7:01pm
Another Scarborough quote we couldn't possibly make up:
"When did the liberal media decide...that waterboarding was torture?"
John Amato’s virtual online magazine…OK, It’s a blog!
©2009 Crooks And Liars
Login or Register to post comments.
Oh. Forgot to say about Scarborough: bless his heart.
Stupid should hurt.
Actually Joe, It was mick e that decided that waterboarding was torture. What you might have missed in that memo however, was the part where he also decided that you are an ass.
I'd guess around 1946 when we hanged Japanese people for doing it?
Hey JOE, why don't you try it you PUSSY!!!!!!
Can someone send Joe the link from earlier today where a former CIA agent, who was involved in waterboarding, said that it is torture. Or if Joe really wants to be perceived as a real journalist, he can do what a few other people have done, and volunteer himself to be strapped to the board.
To me, the most telling review of the procedure came from a journalist who knew that the people waterboarding him would not allow him to die, and he still thought he was going to die.
When did the liberal media decide the earth was flat?
is it still 2004?
is my "Bush Derangement Syndrome" still in effect?
some days I think that the entire world except the people on t.v. and radio know what a bunch of CRAP this stuff is.
Joe: no, it's NOT crap! have a bite.
nice work if you can get it.
if you have no self respect.
I mean, REALLY!
this morning joe is some pretty weak stuff.
Scarborough should know by now that facts have a liberal bias.
After the Dresden comment it's obvious, Joe doesn't care what is done in America's name, as long as he doesn't have to see it.
Hey, easy answer: They didn't. That would be the Spanish Inquisition he's thinking of. Or the Gestapo. Or the US government, when we sentenced Japanese as war criminals for doing it.
Oh, maybe he's thinking of that damn liberal hippie John McCain calling it torture. Not like HE would know anything about torture, right? Oh, wait...
"When did the liberal media decide...that waterboarding was torture?" Uh, Joe, can you "Google" the "Spanish Inquisition". Do not confuse this with "Spanish Fly", Joe.
and another thing!
this must be the third or fourth time this week that I've heard Big Media Millionaires curling their lips up at the phrase "Liberal Media"
HUH?
I mean, is there some shadow media I don't know about? those guys ARE the media. Even though there are a few more spines on display in Big Media these days, this is still BIGFOOT territory.
shut the fuggup about "liberal media" until I get a good solid 7 YEARS of rampant, unguarded bias that bends the other way. okay?
thanks in advance!
Maybe rubber face can get himself waterboarded and let us know what a "tough guy" like him thinks about it. That should end the question once and for all.
Go get em Shuster!
When did you stop beating your wife, Joe?
disgusted? angry? tired of this?
DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.....
viewerservices@msnbc.com; generalcomments@feedback.msnbc.com; phil.griffin@nbcuni.com; bill.wolff@nbcuni.com
I guess when the Japanese, Vietnamese, Germans, Iraqis, Al Queda etc. etc. did it to our soldiers it was just fine...no torture...suck it up soldier boy, you're at war now!
did I capture the attitude of the right-wing piece-o-shit? I just hope any right wing asshole who supports us doing "whatever is necessary" to people who are later released without charge in the name of the security their not getting anyway (70% of fake bombs get through the airport screeners) wants to start mouthing off about being pro-life...you take a good long look at your values.
damn, what am I thinking? If you are a Republican you have no values (no real values anyway).
Wow what a sick F*** I actually think he enjoyed ballyhooing the sick twisted event.
Joe Scarborough is a disgusting piece of humanity.
When will 'conservatives' decide that it is torture again?
The day it is done to an American POW.
Sadly, he comes off as sounding so reasonable. A sad testiment to the state of public debate that we have actually reached a point where we even discuss the notion that torture is something America stands for. We have sunk so low. Our standards have been laid waste. My America does not torture. Period. Torture is evil. But the situation the far right goes back to is the moral equivalent of "might makes Right", my dad can beat up your dad. The world is the elementary schoolyard according to their level of moral development. They have dumbed down our collective sensibilities.
Did Joe just say it was okay to burn innocent people when it wasn't necessary? When is MSNBC going to wake up? Get this nutjob off of the air. If you have David Shuster on the payroll already, and he does guest spots everyday, just give him his own show. No reasonable person would miss Tucker or Morning Joe.
myiq2xu @ 2:
Then he'd have constant migraines! :lol:
I'll bet that it won't be long before Imus has a bigger audience on RFD TV than "Morning Joe." I for one will admit that's what I've been watching. Imus still can get real guests.
Abu Zabayduh: 30 seconds. Special Forces interrogration trainers: 60 seconds max.
How about Joe S? Any takers? I'd give him 15 seconds, and wager up that he'd poop his pants too.
Him and his tough-talking chicken
sh*thawk buddies for that matter.When did the liberal media decide that listening to you wasn't torture?
The CIA lawyers knew that it was better to destroy the tapes and take the possible rap for obstruction then to show the tapes and be prosecuted for torture.
Wow... I got dizzy watching David Schuster walking all over Joe. Why doesn't that guy have his own show already? Oh yeah... I guess there's too many smart liberals in the hippy media.
This is getting positively ridiculous.
Grow up Joe.
I love the way these apologists go on and on and on about all the valuable information gleaned from this torture fest. All those lives saved.
So, um, when do the 'trials' start? When will we see all this information used to prosecute all of these 'very bad people' we are told about?
I know it's only six years and three months since the day the earth stopped rotating on its axis (of evil), but maybe before the decade is out? Am I being too impatient?
Or is it all a load of horseshit?
myiq2xu @ 2:
...or at least taxed/fined.
Uh...when the U.S. and other Allied powers successfully prosecuted Japanese WAR CRIMINALS for using waterboarding after WWII?
You know, I trust C&L - but if I hadn't seen it, I'd swear you were making this up.
I saw Jane Harmon on The Newshour tonight. She said that she wanted evidence rather than repeated assertions, that waterboarding actually works.
I know this will be unpopular here, but if it actually works, I would be willing to turn my head if a very few (like Zawahiri) were subjected to it. If that makes me evil, so be it - he is a mass murderer who wouldn't hesitate to do it to me.
Having said that (and thoroughly POed people that I am in agreement with on most issues), I think that this recent furor misses the larger issue.
Under this renegade administration, we have probably tortured thousands - or tens of thousands. Abu Gahrib testimony indicated that roundups gathered hundreds who were tortured not to obtain information - but simply to see if they HAD any!
Rumsfeld's "The kid gloves are off" policy encouraged wholesale torture - and I'm betting that we don't know about 1% of it yet. I'm not even talking about renditions here. A few low level idiots took the fall and that scandal faded quietly away.
He's upset because MSNBC is breaking up the Tea Bag Gang (Tucker, Joe, Willie). Uncle Pat occasionally shows up to do a guest feltching.
Where are all the SOB's that believe we should have public executions demanding public torture viewings?
"Thank God I was able to read Newsweek magazine in 2002 who described it .."
And Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the only "pansy"? LOL!
What a pathetic example of our otherwise wonderful Y-chromosome carriers.
I thought Scarborough was one of the more decent reasonable republicans, you know, one with at least half a brain, one with an ounce of integrity. What a disappointment. Someone must have threatened him with losing his job.
If the media is so liberal why the fuck does w get a free pass.He never gets asked real questions like why did he oppose forming the 9/11 commision?
History shows that if you are faced with a genuine crisis, whether economic depression, natural disaster or military conflict, you do not want 'conservatives' in power. With their school-bully toughguy attitude are sure to f$#k it up so bad it will make the original problem seem trivial.
If the republicans ran Bill Clinton & Jesus I'd still never cast a vote in their direction. Another republican administration and the empowerment of the modern republican party and their minions and hack propagandists will only foster, encourage and feed this republican march toward third world dictator mentality. Any last chance of establishing a national consensus in favor of accountability and rule of law will go out the window and the absolute worst and most fearf-filled and hateful and extreme authoritarian elements of our society will complete their rise to the top and the Democratic Republic of America will be finished as a viable and free democracy.
Really? The liberal media decided out of the clear blue that torture was illegal. Really?
Geez, I really shouldn't have seen this after watching Lou "finally released of the burden of adherence to the slightest pretense of rationality" Dobbs tonight.
Is a blood pressure reading of 390/245 problematic?
Actually, Joe, they decided that at the same time they decided killing an innocent man by shooting him in the back was murder, and beating someone to a pulp was assault.
So, waterboarding is effective and it is most decidedly NOT torture.
Therefore, it should be perfectly permissible in routine criminal interrogation. Perhaps not advisable, but certainly not illegal or prohibited.
Right?
This is just an expansion of something Rudi Giulliani said recently in response to a question. 'It depends on how it's done, and by whom - if it is performed as portrayed in the liberal media it IS torture.' (paraphrase from memory.)
This is typical of the reight wing. Somebody drops a turd on the field, the next thing you know some other wingnut picks it up, tucks it under his arm and starts running for the endzone. That doesn't make it a touchdown - a turd is not a football.
Joe has volunteered to be the subject for a demo of this delightful pastime...
Anybody who wants to argue that waterboarding isn't torture should have 5 minutes of waterboarding on a weekly basis. After a month of this, if they still want to waterboard enemies, we do it. With the caveat that those who advocated must continue their weekly, 5 minute sessions as well.
If it is, as they argue, unharmful, they shouldn't disagree with this. It's the security of our country at stake after all. Surely they'll endure a little bit of water splashed on their face to help secure the U.S. of A. Won't they?
5 minutes of waterboarding weekly, for all advocates of waterboarding. Then I'll go along with it.
They should try real torture- like having to listen to a subintelligent putz-o like Scarborough
jimmiraybob @ 41:
Uh, yes, I think you may have a bit of a problem. Lay off the salt!
bluegal @ 1:
Not being a lady from the south and yet a Christian anyway all I can say is I wouldn't want to be his soul when he is standing before his maker.
Water-boarding in hell is a MOTHER FUC*ER.
Enjoy yourself Joe.
It's chickensh*t mother f*ckers like this joe schmuck that make me proud to be a liberal. Anyone worthy to be called American and all that that stands for would rather die proud of his country than to live ashamed of it. Scarborough and those of his whiney ilk fear death more than they love life and it's pathetic and repulsive. Deep down in their core in places they will never admit to themselves, they are ashamed of themselves for their lack of humanity and strength of character. Let them go live in a dictatorship and leave this country to the brave, be they godless or of certain belief so that America can go forward without fear of becoming the very thing it opposes as surely it would become if let to the Scarborough's of the world.
Mike Mid City @ 49:
Oh, nice, so the creator of the universe is going to torture him for all eternity for saying something asinine on television.
Such loving forgiveness.
Torture is torture. I'm sure many if not most of the people WE'RE torturing are unpleasent...even more unpleasant than Joe.
But intentional gratuitous application of extreme discomfort in retribution for thought- or speech-crime is immoral and I'll tell your God to his face if he ever musters the courage to show it.
Will someone save idiot Joe Scarborough from himself, please?? The liberal media decided nothing. The criminal justice system in this country determined that waterboarding was torture; the international war crime tribunal (Geneva Conventions on Torture) classified waterboarding as torture.
Joe needs to get an education before he makes an even larger butthole of himself in public. I've never seen a moron on television like this man.
Please sign the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Make your personal pledge to live your life by its principles.
Every human has rights
One word for you Joe - NUREMBERG
resetthathang @ 48:
Or at least I should lay off the right wing hack bloviating. But then again, If I did they'd steal my country.
"When did the rightwing media decide…that waterboarding was torture?”
When it happens to a rich white person.
Oh crap Joe you just contradicted yourself
You said that we had won the war when we fire bombed Dresden and that we really didn't need to do it but we did because we were sending a message
And then you said we did it because we were in the middle of an ugly war.
How can we have won the war (the end) and be in the middle of that same war all at the same time.
Can Keith award worst person to Joey?
UnEasyOne @ 34:
Oh, well, then SURE, let's torture the bad people.
You know what makes that easy?
They're all brown.
If they are black, you just beat them and hang them from a tree, preferably with a sign saying that they asked for water from a white woman.
Geee, Poor Joe's eyes are beady even when he is angry/excited.
My crystal ball shows Joe continually losing viewers.
I also see David getting his own show, not in joes timeslot, David doesn't have time for that because he's a REAL Journalist and spends too much time actually investigating stories.
Actually, it was the RAF (Royal Air Force) that firebombed Dresden.
We did firebomb Tokyo and killed at least as many people (if not more); but the point is that this clown doesn't even know his history.
Ah Conservatives, blame the so called 'Liberal Media' for everything that is wrong with your view of the country. Sounds like the Germans in the 30's blaming the Jews for everything. If they just got ride of the Jews everything would be good. Look how that worked out.
And Joe, If your going to try and use your obviously limited education in trying to make comparisons to to torture like waterboarding please don't use the bombing of cities during a world conflict as your example. It's not even in the same park. One is a crime, and the other is sadly part of what is an acceptable part of war. I feel I probably would have to explain to you which is which but I'll let you hurt yourself thinking about it. A proper comparison would have been John McCain being tortured in Vietnam and all he would tell his assailants is the names of the starting roster of the Green Bay Packers.
As far as the supposed boatload of correct information the CIA got by torturing someone that stopped 6-10 plots, and saved so many lives, why hasn't anyone heard about them? I mean was it 6 or 10 plots? Was it somewhere in the middle? The Bush administration loved to hold press conf. to gloat about the terrorist cells they have just busted up, and the plots they uncovered, and the people they have arrested, and all the lives they have saved. Yet most of these cells, plots, and people turn out to be nothing, and the White House suddenly goes mute because they know they've trumped up a bunch of BS for a bump in the polls. Eventually that stopped working so they don't do it anymore. If the CIA had uncovered and stopped all of these supposed plots, the White House would have been throwing parties on the front lawn telling the whole world about it.
about the same time it decided you were an a....hole.
orion @ 52:
I'm guessing that there's no education on the planet that will work. Witness the astounding self revelation by Dana Perino that she had no clue about the Cuban Missile Crisis - one of the most crucial times in our history as a nation and certainly an historical episode that should help inform our leadership - and now Joe's absolute refusal to acknowledge the historical basis of the legality of torture.
Willful ignorance can't be cured by education.
yellow dog @ 30:
What side or planet is this guy on ? ........
"The distinct minority of america"
Hmmm ........ I'd like to see the back up for that.
Joe is right.
You can suck the Bush dick and thus be Fair and Balanced in your reporting OR you can be with the loony Left who wants Al Qaeda to defeat America everywhere. There is no third way.
What part of "you are either with us or you are with the terrorists" don't you understand?
Joe, The Geneva Convention decided...dipshit.
I just had a thought ........... that the USA tortures people (a lot) is no secret, just about all super powers have done it at some time, the fact that the current one can't rise above it is a shame yes, and a lack of evolved thinking and progress etc.
Though as for "showing the tapes to the world" having assholes like this, Billo et all, on TV I think is worse.
Torture is wrong, though having guys like this defend it while claiming that the USA is some becon of goodness in the world is just fucking insulting, and does America way more damage, it's this kind of rhetoric that makes people think "OK enough is enough, time to start killing Americans, and those that support them".
Just a thought ......
“When did the liberal media decide…that waterboarding was torture?'
I think it was sometime after the laws of civilized nations made the same determination.
When did the liberal media decide that strangling some woman in your office was murder?
DRESDEN? He brought up fucking DRESDEN?!
First of all, jack-ass, "we" didn't fire-bomb Dresden. That was the RAF. (Just like we weren't the ones who stormed into Berlin and toppled the Reichstag--it was the Soviets--but we all know how American history is re-written.)
Secondly, as I'm sure all of you are wondering, how the hell does the Allied firebombing of innocent German women and children equate with water-boarding suspected terrorists?
Again, it's all subtle propaganda. The implication is if you feel that the Dresden bombing was unnecessary then you support Nazi Germany.
The same holds true. If you don't support the waterboarding of suspected terrorists then you support terrorists.
Well, look on the bright side. We've had two consecutive weeks of non-stop spin and right-wing hackery in the wake of the destroyed CIA interrogation tapes and the leaked NIE memo about Iran's (non-existent) nuclear program.
As the old saying goes, dogs don't bark loudly just for the hell of it. There's usually a reason behind it.
That being said, watching Scarborough spout one White House talking point after another is rather embarrassing. The ratings for this show are even more embarrassing. Does MSNBC REALLY think that they're gonna out-Fox & Friends with Joe & Friends?
I remember there was talk of bringing conservative radio host Michael Smerconish on to MSNBC to replace Imus. Smerkie's also a loud-mouth right-winger, so replacing Scarborough with him would be like subbing chickenshit for dogshit, but still, at least Smerkie wouldn't be so damn dull....
Abby @ 65:
That this isn't a political ideal, the current admin made everything they want to do on the right side and everything else liberal and anti-american, get your head out of it !! Both sides want a safe america, it's just one likes politics and diplomacy and military force when needed, and the other is a bunch of blood lust cowboys.
Abby @ 65:
Blood lust cowboys for you then, and thats either side at the moment, take your pick, I'm having the third way you choose not to see.
Torturing can not produce an over all tactical advantage. What follows from it will be an escalating equilibrium of atrocities, with each side trying to out do the other in ruthlessness and cruelty. The justifications will be the same as they've always been; "I have no choice," or "I following orders" or worse still "my mission is noble (...so I can do anything.)"
But hooray for Joe! He would not like to watch the bombing of Dresden during WWII or the torturing of prisoners! Can you see the revoltion in his face and his tone? A secret has boiled up from the bottom of him. Now it is in plain view for all to see. Hooray for Joe! In his heart there yet remains a tiny scrap of humanity, which gnaws at his conscience and tells him that this is an abomination!
Layne @ 71:
Indeed it was the brits and the soviets.
Also Germany wasn't ready to give up at all by that point, hence why Dresden was done to turn the people against the government.
Layne @ 71:
Oh and your a liberal left nutter as well ........ you forgot that !!
Layne @ 71:
Though nothing will be done about that at all.
Layne @ 71:
Keep the people scared and under control ...... it seems to be working for the most part as well.
When did the liberal media decide that waterboarding was torture?
I thought it was your Pentagon who did since they don't allow your military to waterboard.
Why doesn't Joe offer to be waterboarded and then he could tell us for sure that it's not torture. Why not? Hell, I hear you feel just fine the next day. Other than the psychological torture you live with from that day on.
Scarborough is one sick bastard for condoning the killing of children & mothers. It's very questionable weather or not he has a heart, or a soul. War criminals are enabled by people like Scarborough.
Mo says: "I’d guess around 1946 when we hanged Japanese people for doing it?"
Exactly, in addition to the Vietnamese who have a prison camp in Penh Pen (sp?) kept as a museum that illustrates in graphic detail and explains the commonly used interrogation method, later to be prosecuted there as a war crime and state sanctioned torture.
Uneasy says: "I know this will be unpopular here, but if it actually works, I would be willing to turn my head if a very few (like Zawahiri) were subjected to it. If that makes me evil, so be it - he is a mass murderer who wouldn’t hesitate to do it to me.
No, torture is not a form on interrogation, take about a minute and a half to google the definition of torture; it is and has never been, recognized by any just court or international body as anything more than a means to obtain a confession, which in other words, is a proclamation or statement made with the interest only of stopping the immediate threat to one's life or to stop extreme pain.
That's all, a confession has no relevance as 'evidence' anywhere nor is it recognized in any court anywhere, aside from mock show trials or as justification for mass murder/oppression of a group of people by another.
The internet is flush with stories from war victims who have been traumatized by water boarding, traumatized for life. Go read up, no one needs to tell you something you can find out for yourself. Ignorance is the disease of the lazy.
rasta @ 17:
Thank you, I intend to let my disgust be known as everyone else should as well.
Scarborough is out to prove his street cred to Faux News.
Y'know, this is the second or third time I've heard him bring up the Newsweek article from a few years ago. With all the mounting evidence against waterboarding, he has ONE article that he is using to "prove" his point. I'd say that amounts to not a lot of proof in his corner.
Kind of like there's not a lot of proof in his corner that he had nothing to do with the DEAD INTERN IN HIS OFFICE.
I could put money down that the reason he's being such an obstinate prick on this subject is because someone higher up than him has the goods on the DEAD INTERN IN HIS OFFICE.
In fact, I'd bet he'll never leave MSNBC, because someone there or at GE has lots of embarrassing (and/or incriminating) information about the DEAD INTERN IN HIS OFFICE.
Just sayin'.
Positively vile. Why are they even allowed to make ridiculous statements like that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkryNyxlubY&feature=related
JFK
NOW MORE THAN EVER.
Update on the gang rape/false imprisonment story from yesterday:
http://speaker.gov/blog/
Rep. Poe (R-TX) is the Rep who scandalously quoted arch-racist (and first Grand Wizard of the KKK, after the war pardon, and "commander of the Grand Dragons of the Realms") Confederate Lt. General Nathan Bedford Forrest on Iraq strategy ("Git thar furstest with the mostest").
NBF is also known for the Fort Pillow massacre, during which his command asked for parley under a white flag, while advancing and subsequently taking the fort, something which he apparently did repeated, and which recalls the Mountain Meadow Massacres by Brigham Young's Mormon pirates, also under cover of a white flag.
Otay @ 80:
I think you're on to something. My wife and I couldn't wait for Imus to come back on to skip what little of Scarface we could stand. I think his days are numbered at MSNBC and he might flip completely to the dark side and reemerge at Faux Noise.
By the way we want to know more about his dead intern.
Layne @ 71:
You are wrong.
"The bombing of Dresden, led by Royal Air Force (RAF) and followed by the United States Army Air Force (USAAF) between February 13 and February 15, 1945" --wikipedia
And "When the Allies met at the Yalta Conference on February 4, the Western Allies had already decided to target Dresden" -- so it was approved by Allied Command, and not just an RAF adventure.
It's true, the Liberal media decided waterboarding was torture.
Right after the right-wing-talk media proved that lunacy was rampant, the Liberal media decided there should be exceptions where waterboarding was desirable.
The Liberal media's on the side of the angels on that one.
Better practice not-breathing, Rush, Sean, Ann, et.al.
Also OT: Weirauch lost, by 14,000 votes.
[Precincts Reporting: 100% ]
U.S. Representative District 5
Latta, Robert (R).................56.87%....56,367
Weirauch, Robin (D).............42.95%....42,563
Green, John (WI).................0.18%..........180
http://vote.sos.state.oh.us/pls/enr/f?p=152:5:0
well, at least now the enemy knows that waterboarding isn't torture. I guess our soldiers won't mind since it isn't that bad after all.
chopper @ 46:
Actually, there's your answer...waterboard pricks like this, and while waterboarding them, keep asking them if waterboarding is torture until they say yes. And afterwards, ask them if the answer they gave was reliable information. Let's see the bastard get out of that one.
Where do I collect my prize?
The implication in Scarby's question is that it has not been "officially" defined by anybody else.
"14,000 votes" [or equivalent in Ohio vote-fraud).
Right after his assistant died under mysterious circumstances.
The entire GOP is deranged, stupid or terribly ill-informed...they know nothing about anything. Dubya has gone seven years not knowing anything that happens in his crime family and the GOP all march in line to defend all the crimes of the thugs in their party. What a worthless bunch of fools we have down there on the bottom. Knuckle dragging, bottom feeding, troglodytes...all of them.
I was about to go to sleep when this whole argument took place around 4am this morning. It got so heated between Joe and Mika I set my tivo to record it and then set it to transfer to my laptop as I went to sleep.. I just finished editing it down and slicing it into 2 parts for youtube.
If you want to see more of it, the beginning where Joe got QUITE LOUD and was having a hard time containing his temper (when talking to Mika), and threatening her job on his show, you can watch it here on my blog as todays post.
http://politicaldiscontent.blogspot.com/
imo, he threatened Mika and David's positions on his show if they continued to disagree with him on this issue.
UnEasyOne @ 34:
If you didn't have your head up your ass you would have read of the numerous statements by retired U.S. military investigators going back to fucking WWII who all, all to a man, have declarred that...
Wait for it.....
Waid....
TORTURE DOES NOT WORK? ALL. YOU. GET. IS. WRONG. INFORMATION.
Joe aint'' the only stupid frikin' asshole around....but....
WHY BE AS DUMB AS HE IS?
The next time I get an american, I'm going to fucking waterboard them or do it as a protest in front of my border, or my city hall.
What? It's legal to waterboard americans right? It's not torture.
I'm looking forward to see them say "No go ahead, it's not torture, we do it to others all the time".
I bet that is what they would say...... .. .. .
Did anyone listen to the end? WTF He thinks he should be able to hide his head in the sand over the firebombing of Dresden. He admits it is immoral and wrong, yet thinks he shouldn't have to look at it. Joe is advocating abandoning any sense of morality! He seriously means to say that it is okay when we do bad things, and it is okay we don't get to see it, because ... times are bad. That is just straight cowardice. You can't give into fear like that. Republicans are just cowards that would turn themselves into monsters at the sight of a monster.
A.Citizen @ 97:
I know that's an article of faith with a lot of people but what you say simply is not true.
Numerous individuals - including the guy who just admitted doing it on one of the tapes - say that it does. I have followed links to cited studies purported to show that it doesn't work. Turns out that they say it rarely works.
I expected insults from zealots like yourself. I proposed torturing no one. I commend Jane Harmon for wanting to investigate the issue. I pointed out the larger issue - that wholesale torture has been going on for some time - and probably still is.
Nobody addressed that.
There is a lot of evidence on both sides of this issue. Neither case has been proved to my satisfaction. Zealots like yourself and Scarborough have already made up your minds - believing proponents of the position you happen to find agreeable.
Hooray for you.
Ok thats it! Tucker you can stay.
Joe, please continue your expressions of truly felt convictions. In a contest of who stays, I'd say hands down MSNBC best wipe the smudge from their rose color glass and not only smell the coffee but take a hard gulp of it.
That bastion of liberalism, the Mississippi Supreme Court called it torture in 1926.
The "water cure" is what they called waterboarding back then.
Fisher was an African-American man accused of killing a white man. The court thought that torture to get a confession was going to far even then!
Note to Joe: It wasn't the "liberal media" that prosecuted Japanese war criminals for the same activity at the end of World War II.
When they discovered it's not a kind of water skiing but "drowning".
Scarborough: “When did the liberal media decide…that waterboarding was torture?”
Probably about the same time that they read THE LAW......
As Jesus said, "Do unto others whatever floateth thy boat."
David, you've got to lie and worship me if your going to be on my show....
I saw this whole segment while it was airing live this morning , and wanted to jump through my TV at this smug , stupid little pissant Scarborough.
He was insisting that if waterboarding is done by trained individuals , it isn't torture .
WTF ??? HUH ?????
So , if we get marksmen to shoot a suspected terrorist in the kneecap to talk , that doesn't constitute torture either , Joe Scabturtle ?
What an asshole he is.........
Liberals are very independent people, Scarborough. Liberals don't get together and create talking points like republicans do. The "liberal media" that you work for is actually quite corporate and conservative. Hopefully most Americans know this by now and aren't falling for this little mind game anymore.
Joe's an authoritarian cultist. Dan Abrams showed horrible judgement by picking him for the 6-9 morning slot instead of simulcasting The Young Turks radio show
Scarborough - you are a fuckwit and a wanker.
You are a Reich-wing, brownshirt tool.
Heil Scarborough!
Excuse me - I just feel like being honest tonight.
*
clytemnestra @ 57:
I couldn't believe that either. These are really unholy times we live in when now we're touting Dresden as something to celebrate.
Exercise in circular logic:
1) It's ok to torture terrorists.
2) We need to torture terrorists in order to get them to confess and tell us everything they know.
3) Until we torture them, we can't be sure they have told us everything.
How do we know they are terrorists until they confess? How will we know when they have told us everything? What if they're innocent but confess and make stuff up just to stop the torture?
Lets say that waterboarding does work, then what? can you prosecute the criminal after you torture him? Can you use the information under torture to indict the person?
So what good is it to torture them anyway? where would torturing them lead to, other than make you into the monster if you support torture.
My one other great question I have for Joe is, so what is it about America do you love? What part of America do you feel you want to protect when your plan for security is the very thing un-american. The declaration of independent gave birth to America, and the constitution was our framework for our nation. If you can't bother to protect that, then you are only drawing a line across dirt, and selling out every leaders that help raise and nurture the United States of America.
If anything, Joe thoroughly convinced me that not only is water boarding despicable but firebombing Dresdon was an appalling act by our government. Chalk one up to the rule that if Joe thinks it's a good idea, it must be morally abhorrent.
actually joe, torquemada back during the spanish inquisition was of the belief that waterboarding was/is torture, an opinion upheld a couple of centuries later by the geneva convention.
UnEasyOne @ 100:
Links for your idiotic assertions? None.
Sense to your position. None.
Listen up pal. Torture is against the laws of war and the tenets of civilization. Just because a scumbag like John Woo says it's not does not make that so. It's morally deficient, sociopathic scum like you and Joe who would have us, me and my fellow citizens, be complicit with you, you and this paid shill for those who fail to understand nor cherish the principles this nation, indeed civilization, is founded upon. There is a 'lot of evidence' that George W. Bush is a deserter. There is a lot of 'evidence' that he is a mass-murderer. There is a lot of evidence that many Americans are in truth cut from the same flawed human clay that the 'Good Germans' of HItler's Reich were.
The foremost evidence for that last fact, pal, is staring you in the face every morning when you brush your teeth.
Further, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone assert that the fire bombing of Dresden was a 'good thing....' in any way shape or form.
But I guess Joe figures he can get away with it as long as he has you and the your fellow sheep blindly following him as he leads you to a
place no one with a ounce of morality in them would go.
neil @ 107:
Tell him "NO" David.
*
katsiskats @ 16:
That juvenile sort of logical fallacy bullshit had me jumping out of my skin as I watched. "Since when did the liberal media get to decide waterboarding is torture." The U.S. Government (once run by "we the people") decided waterboarding is torture, by rule of law, many goddamn times over.
And that whole "You can't come on my show if you can't tell the truth"...That's the monkey's ass scaborough is...it's not news, it's his show. What a whiny pussy.
Was he condoning the firebombing of Dresden...? What an inhuman fool.
We have an Liberal Media?
Lets Waterboard Joe then ask him if he wants more..
*sigh*
Joe Scarborough - the man who's 15 minutes of fame have FAR outlasted his 15 seconds of relevance.
evolution @ 115:
If only it were just him.
How about "If the far right thinks its a good idea, its probably morally abhorrent and inhumane."
Hmm.. I guess that would have to be in 1947 when we sentenced a Japanese officer by the name of Yukio Asano to 15 years hard labor for when he did it to an American soldier.
Sorry Joe I just lost all respect for you. You used to be half honorable. Now you're a shill just like OReilly and Beck.
Tough digs bud. Cuz you right wing shills are on your way out.
A.Citizen @ 117:
You have called me morally deficient, sociopathic scum - and a good Hitlerite German.
You have muddied the waters by implying that I supported the firebombing of Dresden, agreed with John Woo and the rest of Scarboroughs rant. In fact, I compared you to him. I did call you a zealot - I think you have proved that.
What I supported was Jane Harmon's call for an investigation - and I pointed out that this administration has engaged in wholesale torture. I pointed out that the guy who admitted to carrying out the torture on one of the tapes claimed that it worked.
(Find your own links, jerk - it's all over the news)
I am willing to discuss anything I actually did say with any sane person on the site - but I won't respond further to your insults and strawman arguments. Call me what you like - everyone who can read knows better.
.
There is an alternate agenda at play here and we all need to pay us some attention:
To be having a valid discussion of IF waterboarding is or is not legal, one must first examine the history of it's use. This would also have to include, as mandatory LEARNING, that the Senate ratified the Geneva Conventions regarding waterboarding AS torture, an act America does not condone and recognized that if used against prisoners of another nation during "war time" it then becomes a WAR CRIME. Also, mandatory LEARNING is the successful prosecution BY the U.S.A. of Japanese soldiers, acting under orders, for water boarding. One must also LEARN that U.S. service men were successfully Court Marshaled BY the U.S. Military for engaging in the coercive technique of waterboarding during Vietnam. Not only has the (former) U.S.A. denounced the use of waterboarding as a WAR CRIME, it is punishable in a court of law and the (former) U.S.A. made it clear that ANY U.S. service member will not be allowed to engage in it as a coercive technique.
Fast forward/Rewind:
What was that Bush signing statement regarding the McCain Amendment about again?
The Amendment passed, Bush signed it and then, reserved the privilege to usurp Congress.
Not only does that the signing statement signify and qualify as intent, especially in the light that the Administration argues the legitimacy of such a stance, coupled with how they've been so adamant that the U.S.A. DOESN'T torture. Not only that begs the question, why excuse something YOU DON'T DO, but if it has such a history of being so vilified, why attempt to legitimize it?
Q U E S T I O N:
Bush's signing statement, was it pre-torture, or... post torture?
Someone needs to do some homework. Just think of the implications.
INTENT AT EVERY ANGLE.
Usurpation, war crimes, violation of one's Authority, committing acts against "the people" and their Constitution...
The signing statement may have been an attempt to lay cover for the revelation OF such crimes having been committed, as we are understanding, they have.
AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE from the start!!
EVERY WEEK is ANOTHER CRIME REVEALED!!
Congress is now laying cover for the Criminal in Chief.
Listen to them and their attempt to justify torture.
Hell, they want to go make waterboarding illegal... AGAIN!!
Q U E S T I O N:
When was torture EVER legal.
When was warrantless EVER legal?
When has revoking Habeas Corpus EVER been legal?
This Congress has much to explain. H.R. 1955 makes the Declaration of Independence a terrorists manifesto... HELLO!?!?
Q U E S T I O N:
If ANY American gets hauled in for having communicated knowingly or unknowingly to a terrorist suspect via phone, web, or electronic communication device, IF the warrantless actions of such collection methods aren't halted, what Rights of redress, due process and possibly Habeas Corpus Rights will an American have? States secrets protects the Admin... NO? Congress granted to the president, such an ability. WHO'S REALLY BEEN USURPED?
.
Always interesting to see which trolls and which media LIARS want to join the rightwing in DE BASEMENT.
Shitting on each other for cash -- what heroes.
wes @ 22:
----------------------------------
i gotta disagree with you there. even the two ppl on his show looked shocked and ashamed or i'm not sure what. they certainly didn't look or sound like they were with his ideas.
and who is the "we" in your: "we even discuss the notion that torture is something America stands for."
it was some -- well, one neo-con mouth piece with two incredulous sidekicks (who i must add are total tools to even be on such a show as this).
Just tried to send this to Joe via his show's site, and surprise of surprises, I got some weird error.
"I used to think Mr. Scarborough was a smart conservative, but after his segment with Mr. Shuster regarding waterboarding, I'm afraid I now see him as an unconscionable monster. So Mr. Scarborough is perfectly happy with destroying innocent lives, with committing the unspeakable, with propagating acts of terror that would make this nation's enemies jealous, just as long as he doesn't have to see them?
What a terrible example to set for the youth of America, and for the rest of the world. The point of this struggle, Mr. Scarborough, is that we as a nation are better than our enemies. We do not sink to their level. And it seems to me like we are being lead down a dark path from which we might never return.
Yes, we firebombed Dresden. We dropped atomic bombs on Japanese cities filled with civilians. Instead of using these past tragedies to justify modern acts of cowardice, we should view them as examples where, just maybe, we can do better today and in the future. America, in my mind, is a country of people who are too good to torture, and too good to approve of a massacre. We can save American lives without becoming just a bit more like our enemies. Our intelligence professionals are brilliant people, and can get more information out of a captured soldier or terrorist mastermind with a game of chess than with any instrument of torture.
Please remember Mr. Scarborough, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Just because it's not before your eyes doesn't mean others don't see it happening. It doesn't mean human beings aren't experiencing it. And it doesn't mean that we can't do better."
Max-1 @ 127:
When you say, "Congress" granted, you ignore the effort in the Senate NOT to do that, which failed by 3 votes (along party lines):
"an amendment to remove the suspension of habeas corpus failed 48–51." -- wikipedia
And the 170 Democrats who voted against the Habeas changes in the House.
And the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act of 2007, S. 185, which is also being sponsored in the House (by Nadler/Harmon).
JasonS @ 51:
Not being a lady from the south and yet a Christian anyway all I can say is I wouldn't want to be his soul when he is standing before his maker.
Water-boarding in hell is a MOTHER FUC*ER.
Enjoy yourself Joe.
Oh, nice, so the creator of the universe is going to torture him for all eternity for saying something asinine on television.
Such loving forgiveness.
Torture is torture. I'm sure many if not most of the people WE'RE torturing are unpleasent...even more unpleasant than Joe.
But intentional gratuitous application of extreme discomfort in retribution for thought- or speech-crime is immoral and I'll tell your God to his face if he ever musters the courage to show it.
---------------------------
Thank you Mr. Jason S. Prig.
Max-1 @ 127:
I don't think there is any real question that A) Waterboarding is torture B) Torture is already illegal (I believe there was a successful prosecution of a US soldier way back in the Spanish American war for, if I am not mistaken, waterboarding.) C) Real attempts are currently being made to define torture as something else.
I have real concern about passing - or attempting to pass - legislation at this time defining torture or banning waterboarding specifically.
The reason is simple: even if the Rethugs are unsuccessful in blocking passage, Bush will veto. It seems to me that (and I am no lawyer - but the way the Justice Department is being run these days isn't exactly legal either) a failed attempt to ban it again would weaken the argument that it is already illegal and clear precedents have been set.
In a real world where the law is actually followed and precedent has meaning, of course, that would not be the case. In Bushworld, with his Justice Department lackeys and Federalist Courts, it might turn out not to be.
Change the last three words of my post @133 from "not to be" to "to be the case."
Actually makes some sense that way.
UnEasyOne @ 133:
If you want to quote precedent, don't forget the precedent of Japanese soldiers being prosecuted for this same activity.
SteveinSC @ 85:
The Intern was found dead in Joe's office. I don't remember the reason they gave for this young girl dying in Joe's office, but he was never held responsible. I believe that is what ended his political career. I am glad he supports torture, maybe that will help find out what happened to the young woman.
“When did the liberal media decide…that waterboarding was torture?”
Somebody needs to tell this knucklehead Scarborough to go back and finish High School and this time study some History before posing these ridiculous questions.
It was the Spaniards, not the imaginary American Liberal Media of the 21st Century, who decided that using waterboarding was a good enough torture device to extract confessions from suspected witches during the Inquisition.
They called it "Tortura galica ordinaria". But that might be too hard for the Scarboroughs of the world to understand since it's in some strange foreign language called Spanish, so here is the American language translation: Ordinary French Torture.
There, nice and clear for you Joey. Any other idiotic questions you care to ask, you stupid dumb freak?
What a grotesque mismatch! A right-wing blowhard against a real journalist. Sorry, Joe.
Joe you disgusting cowardly prevaricating moronic fascist repugnant repulsive slimy ignorant sycophantic unlettered uneducated piece of rethuglican shit. Enjoy your day in the sun; it will be over soon and you can join your thug pals in the Hague. Justice is not always swift but it is coming your way, Torquemata!
The bullyboy Right Wingers want this issue to go away.
And Scarborough's just the guy to sweep it under the rug.
Just ask Lori Klausutis' husband or parents....
http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/01.05B.Klausutis.1.htm
What a nasty America hating scum bag Scarborough is! For his information the US military decided waterboarding was torture about 120 years ago. But they weren't the first either. Why is this ignorant clown Scarborough even allowed to perform his clown act on the public airwaves?
Joe Scarborough - what a tool!
Anyone that supports torture because they think it will save them from death is a coward.
MSNBC has done a good job recently of presenting an intelligent other view than offered by Fox and the MSM. But they retain the attitude of ratings being more important than reality. Therefore they are keeping their token conservative. That sneering, ignorant, POS Joe Scarborough. Yes he did show a hint of humanity for a while but has reverted to type.
Now I have an idea for a ratings bonanza for MSNBC. As suggested before in these comments have Joe undergo waterboarding. But not just a clip of it, let's have a whole day's show dedicated to it. Hype it up with show teasers for a week on, during and after every regular show on the line up. Have Keith dedicate one of his "Best Person Segments" to Joe for living up to his justifications of waterboarding. Have Keith and David Shuster guest host Joe's show during the "Questioning" of Joe. YES!!! A proper waterboarding isnt just pouring water down the victims throat. We want answers!!!! And declarations of love of .... lets see... first how excited he is to contemplate Hillary as President. How about how anxious he is to see GW and Dickie IMPEACHED and INDICTED.... How lovely it would be to have Pelosi finish out their term...
Well all of that would only take a few minutes so Maybe David could finish up the show as they show the ambulance leave with Joe.. And don't forget the red "Breaking News" banner at the bottom of the screen as news crews chase the ambulance to the hospital. A helicopter shot would be a nice touch. NOW that would be some great television!!!!!
#96:
Yeah, I caught those threats he made to Mika and David - point is, if he tries to have either of them fired, Mika will have a tailor-made lawsuit against him (sexual harassment) and David Shuster doesn't work for the Scarborough show, but MSNBC - so Dan Abrams can give dude his own show, if he wants.
Preferably in place of "Morning Joe" since this pansy is so blatantly partisan he can't check his ReThug Credentials at the door when he comes to work.
Mika and David got in the last words on the subject, however:
Mika: "We should be able to see the tapes on this (the CIA)"
David: "How can you bring up Dresden? Do you know what we did over there?"
Even though Scarborough tried to bully them into shutting up on the air, Mika held her ground and Shuster held his - they both acted as if Hoe hadn't said anything...
I see the disconnect..it's his definition of torture.. to him, torture is DEATH. If you don't have the right people there, they could die. As americans, we promise not to kill your or your organs, other than that, you better start talking.
I think it's sad that I got that insight off a fake news show...
He tried to justify the bombing of Dresden. Anyone who read Slaughter-house Five knows how completely inhumane that act was. I can't believe he said that...what a monster. What ever happened to "America is beter than that" ?
Just as I was beginning to sort of like Scarborough. What's with him and this waterboarding business?
He was one of first to jump ship when the Bushtanic started sinking. Why start shelling now?!
and this is what they replaced Imus with.
Like any good Nazi, he knows it's "Verschärfte Vernehmung"
MO-Mike @ 4:
Ding-ding-ding!!! We have a winner!
Login or Register to post comments.