Supreme Court looks to be 5-4 to uphold Voting ID rules and purge the voting rolls...
By John Amato Wednesday Jan 09, 2008 2:45pmI'm calling this charade the "Preemptive doctrine on Voting Rights." The hearing has begun and John Roberts is doing his part to aid the Republican machine in purging huge amounts of minorities and the elderly off of our voting rolls. They understand full well that a large percentage of these voters will not cast their ballot for the Giuliani--"Speak English" only party. The NY Times explains:
There are many ways to lose a Supreme Court case, and by the end of an argument that was before the court on Wednesday, the Democrats who were challenging Indiana’s voter-identification law appeared poised to lose theirs in a potentially sweeping way, with implications for many future election cases and in a way that will make it harder to challenge this canard again.
The justices’ questioning indicated that a majority did not accept the challengers’ basic argument — that voter-impersonation fraud is not a problem, so requiring voters to produce government-issued photo identification at the polls is an unconstitutional burden on the right to vote.
The tenor of the argument suggested, however, that rather than simply decide the case in favor of the state, a majority of five justices would go further and rule that the challenge to the statute, the strictest voter-identification law in the country, was improperly brought in the first place. Such a ruling could make it much more difficult to challenge any new state election regulations before they go into effect.
Here's Roberts doing his thing.
Chief Justice Roberts, who grew up in Indiana, did not seem to find the burden excessive. “County seats aren’t very far for people in Indiana,” he said. Mr. Smith replied that the county seat in Lake County was a 17-mile bus ride from the county’s urban center of Gary. “If you’re indigent, that’s a significant burden,” he said. The chief justice also seemed unimpressed by the absence of known voter impersonators. “It’s a type of fraud that, because it’s fraud, it’s hard to detect,” he said to Mr. Smith...read on
Read the full article and then read this also if you missed my last post about it. Get off the voter stuff in NH and focus on a real threat to our democracy. With huge turnouts more than likely this election, what will happen at the polling stations when Americans are turned away because of these new rules? We've had to fight for our right to vote and we must continue to do so. The media has been busy with the primaries which is natural, but it's time they turn their attention to this monumental case.
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www.BradBlog.com is doing some serious reporting lately on the voting systems in this country. He deserves a lot of credit for standing up for us. Consider going over there and digging/voting up his stories. It goes from Chris Matthews to Stephanie Miller to Bev Harris etc. He is knocking it out of the park on this issue as far as I'm concerned. Peace.
Bush is going to be with us for a long, long time.
He institutionalized the neocon mindset. Just try changing a bureaucracy, not to mention the Supreme Court.
The end of America.
Let me guess: the vote was along party lines.
Is anyone really surprised about this?
the court is being stocked with real conservatives not to overturn roe, but to make sure power stays in the hands of the corporatists and fascists
no matter who runs the executive, this neocon court will be here to make sure that the little guy has no voice
I'm sorry but if you cannot get your shit together enough to pick up a drivers license or state id, then you are obviously too far gone to be allowed to vote.
and for the record, i hate all republicans.
If they do pass this fascism, and it looks like they will, then the burden of providing free photo identification to any and all must fall on the federal government
What's even more horribly wrong than having to provide photo ID is having to pay for one.
Forcing voters to pay for photo IDs amounts to a poll tax, Jim Crow writ large across the whole country.
Welcome to Alabamica
Man, I've been listening to coverage of this for a few days now.
Scalia's basically posed that disenfranchising 200,000 or even 10,000 voters is worth it to catch one case of fraud, even though there's never been a single case of it in state history. You see, that one case of fraud could throw off the election, but disenfranchising the poor and eldery, and intimidating minorities, that could never affect an election.
"The Truth is an offense, but not a Sin" ~ Bob Marley. Let's get to the bottom of this Supreme Court/Voting System Corruption in this country. The Supreme Court gave Bush the election in 2000. Now they are influencing our Voting Systems and Procedures. Sickening.
Welcome to the Police State. (Welcome to the Machine.. ~ Pink Floyd)
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 5:
Come on man, real conservative != neocon
The people who created this country were real conservatives. "I draw my idea of the form of government from a principle in nature, which no art can overturn, viz. that the more simple any thing is, the less liable it is to be disordered, and the easier repaired when disordered..." Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Progressives need to learn this and learn it well. So that when you get in arguments with neocons parading as conservatives, you can ridicule them for having absolutely no conservative positions. When referring to government, conservatism means conserving the original principles of government (Small government, individual freedom, Stringent protection of property rights)..
Neo-conservatives and Social conservatives are nothing more than Orwellian twists on a good idea in order to trick people into funneling more and more money towards corporations..
Orangutan. @ 9:
Good point and also a frightening one.
So if you have a drivers license with your photo on it, would you still be required to get one from the govt? How quickly could they get this set up? As slow as govt works there is no way they can get this going by Nov. Remember the shit storm about trying to get passports to everyone who needed one?
And what information will be encrypted in these govt cards?
Just wow,
and ironic that the real fraud is usually perpetrated by the recipients of the votes.
Roberts is either stupid or lying when he says "“It’s a type of fraud that, because it’s fraud, it’s hard to detect,” "
There is very little in life easier to detect than voting fraud, if you are so inclined, because voting records are PUBLIC knowledge. In Washington State's heavily contested gubernatorial race, the GOP MASSIVELY checked voting records, seeking to find voter fraud.
They failed. All they had to do was find ONE PERSON who was down in the book as having voted, but who was willing to swear that they hadn't voted.
They couldn't.
Roberts is either stupid or a liar.
unholyguy @ 6:
For hating them you sure sound like them. IDs can be expensive, and if you live in a heavily urban area with lots of public transit, why do you need a driver's license? Also, who are you to tell someone they shouldn't be allowed to vote just because they "don't have their shit together"? Voting is a fundamental right in this country (or at least it used to be).
Not that I'm super self-pleased, as an aside, but I totally called this (5-4 and everything) in the first thread that the Indiana voting laws were mentioned.
You are so fucked! Looks like I'll be running America for a long, long time to come. (It's a good thing women haven't figured out that they are a majority in this country!)
I am so damn glad you posted this. Steve Gilliard, (may he rest in splendid peace) warned last year that we were spending too much energy on Diebold, and that the real threat was voter i.d. laws and other restrictions put in place by Republican state houses in order to suppress the vote. This is real people.
There are private corporations counting our current election votes... none of you "progressives" interested about that?
Here's one more for the rest of you life (cuz his influence will be that long):
http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/bush_finger.jpg
Please remember what this court is doing when you say if so-in-so is the Democrats candidate you will not vote for them. We need all the help we can get to get a Dem elected in November. If a Repub is elected there will most likely one if not two supreme court vacancies for that president to fill. Do you want another Alito and Roberts? Nope, we don't and it would be hell for our country for a much longer time that we have had to deal with bush.
Orangutan, the drivers' license has to be current. If you are 85 and have voted in every Presidential election for hte past 50 years, but you no longer drive...you're screwed. If you are poor and don't have a car and probably not a license...you're screwed. If you are blind...uh....no license....you're screwed. And so on.
The best way to keep crap like this away from the Supreme Court is to pass clear, constitutional laws. That's why I think this ought to be elevated to a plank in the Democratic Party platform for 2008. Commit to enacting a national right to vote law — make it an amendment if they have to. I know this would have to get past the obstructionist Senate Republicans, but it could make a great wedge issue. "The Republicans are blocking the Right to Vote Amendment. They don't want YOU to be able to VOTE! What are they AFRAID of?"
Maybe they could include a breast-feeding-in-public provision and call it the Democracy And Motherhood Act of 2008. Then we say "The Republicans want to take away your Right To Vote and Feed Your Children! The Republicans HATE Democracy AND Children! (Which is, of course, true.) We say D.A.M. them!"
Yes, massah.
I remember the 2000 Florida recount fiasco. Massah tell me to move along. So me move along. Me too ignorant to think for myself.
I remember the 2004 Ohio vote fraud. Years later, criminal prosecutions, down the memory hole, but massah told me to move along. So I put on blinders and do as he say.
More voting irregularities in New Hampshire 2007. Nothing to see here, massah tell me, so I forget about it, smile, and move right along.
I can hardly wait for Indiana 2008. Big problems, yes, very possible, maybe even voter fraud, maybe the fix in, but when Pumpkinhead Russert and Tweety Matthews declare the state for Republicans fifteen minutes after polls close and 11% of the vote has been counted, I will do as massah tell me, forget all about it and move swiftly past, just like massah say.
. . .
Orangutan, sorry. THat post was for unholy guy. Carry on.
The REAL ID Act goes into effect some month this year. "Papers Please" I miss America pre-9/11 before all of this Police State talk and legislation.
Big shocker. This Supreme Court working not-so-on-the-sly for the GOoPers? Say it ain't so.
Hey, nominating Alito and Roberts were the big, long-term prizes for the GOP, for exactly reasons like this; The Chimp did his main job as preznit.
"Land of the free". Feh.
abbey @ 24:
No worries Abbey. I just want the Truth.
Well, I think this is yet another nail in the coffin of the theory Ralph Nader had that there was essentially no difference between Gore and Bush.
Indiana State ID cards cost $13. $13 can buy about 12-15 cans of soup. 12-15 cans of soup fed my 82 year old grandmother for a week or better.
So why should an 82 year old woman have to decide between eating for a week, or paying for an ID which is required to vote?
Meanwhile, Diebold is making machines that have TWO separate vote registers... one hidden, one public... which can be interchanged with nothing more than a secret keypress!
Seriously!
Check out brad blog and the Black Box Voting site, it's beyond egregious: these machines are DESIGNED FOR VOTE FRAUD.
yezzbozz @ 23:
That's how I felt too. Let's start admitting the Elephant in the room. This isn't 846 B.C. This is 2008!!! We can handle it.
Voter fraud is a ruse that's being sold as "restoring voter confidence in the election process".
Voter fraud isn't the problem, it's vote count fraud that is the problem. I'm able to vote, but I have no confidence that my vote is being counted as I casted it or if it's being counted at all.
So how will this affect absentee ballots?
Sounds Rhumsfeldian: “It’s a type of fraud that, because it’s fraud, it’s hard to detect,” and all that talk about known knows and unknown knowns known unknowns and unknown unknowns.... AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!
It's Plan B deja-vu all over again
John,
It will affect women, too:
Shan @ 28:
If you mean their respective political parties, then a discussion could be held to bandy about the merits of that position. But between Al and George, there is no comparison:
Al uses his adult words when talking; Chimpy flings his poo around his cage whenever he doesn't get his way.
That's just one of the many differences between the 2 men.
;)
The USSR had such a great government that our leaders have decided to remodel the USA in it's image.
Is everyone growing a veggie garden? Perestroika is coming.
I'm certain the CRIMINALS who DO manufacture fake IDs will have NO PROBLEM making NEW fake IDs.
I'm equally certain that many of WE THE PEOPLE will find it very difficult to get a ride into town - with ALL the CORRECT paperwork - to get the new IDs.
fukkers ..
unholyguy @ 6:
Yeah you should be sorry! This is the most sorry assed comment I've seen on C&Ls in a long time.
Thanks for not getting YOUR shit together while our Constitutional right to vote is being slowly
chipped away at. Pathetic enabler.
Well, I should have clarified - in the case of this topic, I'd like to believe (and it seems likely) that at worst, Al Gore's appointments to the Supreme Court would have been 'less' reactionary at least.
buzz @ 32:
Agreed...the article strongly implies that there has yet to be proven ONE case of
Voter Fraud in Indiana. What this law will do is disenfranchise many, many voters
(a Republican scheme going back to 2000) and will have no real impact on discouraging
or eliminating voter fraud.
It's one step closer to a "national ID Card" as each state may enact the same rules.
A round trip 17 mile drive to the county seat is only $6.00-$8.00 in gasoline today.
bleve @ 18:
No shit. I hate being lectured by well-meaning dupes when our votes are being ROBBED BLIND by corporatists with agendas, and no transparency or accountability. And they tell me to shut up about it?! No wonder corruption is so rampant. If nobody on my side of the aisle gives a flyingfuck and is willing to stand up and fight about voter fraud and stolen elections, then why the hell should I care a damn about registration and voter ID? I am sick of liberal elites and blogosphere toadies telling me their priorities are the only ones that matter and mine are meaningless. It's a perversion of democracy. If Amato doesn't care who's counting the votes or how those votes are counted, then why should I give a rats ass who I vote for, or whether it's even worth the bother to make the effort to vote at all? You want fascism in America...? Good, you're getting it. "Just bend over and take it a little deeper. It's painless. Trust us, we know what's best for you."
[Deleted-Flamebait-Sitemonitor]
This is one of the reasons we need to get a Democrat in the White House. There's talk that Ruth Bader Ginsberg is retiring, and maybe one other. The next president could either push the court further right or at least restore something like balanace.
They way things are going I'm afraid we're going to have another Tawney Court, and we all know the results of that.
Dana @ 39:
The comment about hating the people who he agrees with, was classic.
ysbaddaden @ 46:
Would it be okay to elect a Republican approved Democrat, or a Republican believer, pretending to be a Democrat?
Funny how we've never heard of a case working up the system concerning voter caging.
Well one thing we don't need is an Ayn Rand acolyte like Ron Paul deciding who our next justices are.
Doggiebobo @ 41:
And by the way, it seems much, much tooooo coincidental that the S/C will issue it's
ruling in June or July; just before the November General Elections. Way to go you
5 Republican judges...keeping the indigent/poor/lower class of people from having
their "right" to vote.
Let me rephrase: in light of the Roberts Court, Ralph Nader should reconsider his statement that there was no difference between Bush and Gore. I believe he may have been mistaken.
buzz @ 32:
Bingo! You nailed it. Like the quote (possibly apocryphal) attributed to Josef Stalin, it's true regardless who said it:
"It's not the people who vote that count; it's the people who count the votes."
Wake up people!
ysbaddaden @ 50:
He would probably appoint mannequins, since he believes that federal courts have no business interpreting the Constitution.
We could use to lose a few Justices, methinks.
If anyone gets disfranchised by this new law, it is their own stupid fault. I agree this law is unnecessary, but getting an ID is not that hard. I would bet good money that most of them have cell phones, and if they can get it together enough for that they can get an ID.
Man, and here I thought we settled this issue a few decades ago..
Shan @ 40:
There's the rub. If we'd taken VOTE COUNT FRAUD seriously in 2000, Al Gore would be in power, he would have nominated a sane Supreme Court Justice, and we'd never be in this "democracy-threatening voter ID" pickle Amato warns us about, while telling us to ignore VOTE FRAUD outta the other side of his mouth. And so it goes with Ohio 2004. John Kerry would've been nominating justices. How many corrupt elections to we need to take up the arse before we realize we're being shitted on?
If we cant understand the significance of the Sibel Edmonds story we may as well forget about democracy. The BCCI scandal shows that a group of criminals is manipulating the process to the extent that democracy has been obviated.
If we dont act on the information we betray each other and we will forever be chasing phantoms that present as truth. Im begging John Amato to cover the story. Will we choose to emerge from the cave as described by Socrates.
Conversely, this is an issue the dems are really concerned about because it would take away their votes. It's very simple:
you need to be a citizen to vote. If you are not a citizen, you can't vote. If you can't prove you're a citizen, then you can't vote.
I understand that lots of people won't be able to vote, mostly elderly and poor. The effort here should be on getting those people ID's. I have no problem enforcing the requirements of voting. They check your age when you get your license, they check the license when you want to buy alcohol, they make sure you're a citizen before you work (theoretically). Besides the fact that it hurts your party's election chances, what possible reason would you have for not wanting ONLY U.S. citizens to vote in elections? Stop being upset at the perfectly logical requirements and work on getting people up to speed.
Um... why can't we be worried about this AND electronic voting machines in NH (and elsewhere)? Not to mention robocalls and all the other election shenanigans in the Repub election playbook....
The ID's will be provided at no cost. One woman who was involved in the suit as a poster person for the challenge to the law was found to be registered in Florida and Indiana. Those who do not want ID's want fraud
ysbaddaden @ 46:
As long as liberals keep telling us to ignore vote-count irregularities, the chances of Democrats getting in the White House are remote.
Eventually at least one of these characters will have to be impeached. All of the repub appointees lied at their confirmation hearings. They have the same 'high crimes and misdemeanors’ standard as the pres and vp. The main thrust of the impeachment bill now in front of the judiciary committee is that lying the country into a war is a ‘high crime and misdemeanor’. Establishing this as a basis for impeachment is best done now. I hope all bloggers and commenters will urge their readers to get behind the impeachment effort and get a million signups on Wexler’s petition.
http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/
Telling the truth has to be the minimum standard we set for politicians. Impeachment of liars is the best way to do it.
What we need is a voting system filled with accountability and security, to satisfy and assure both the reality-based crowd and the manipulative fearmongers. Here's a description of Oregon's vote-by-mail system, which has safeguards against fraud, a verifiable paper trail, and ease of use:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/17/AR200611...
This model has been a great success, and is completely verifiable.
"Get off the voter stuff in NH and focus on a real threat to our democracy."-JA
I don't understand this mono polar conclusion, shouldn't the entire process be safegaurded?
Embarrassed that Roberts is from IN.
It makes me so sad..I work with the elderly a great deal..a 17 mile bus ride when you have difficulty walking is indeed a hardship.
Voting should not be difficult for any AMERICAN.
Shame on you Roberts..shame on you.
The longer this goes on, the harder it will be to bring our system back in line with Constitutional Law and democratic ideals.
I fear it is too late. That only a collapse of the system can bring about change. And that I believe would take a generation or more.
I can’t think of any nation that went from despotism to democracy without some form of revolution. History is rife with examples of nations revolutionizing themselves from despot to despot.
For the entire life of the Bush administration, the government has been maneuvering to oppose action from the people. The US Gov is treating it’s own citizens and the enemy and looks to be preparing to occupy the US as a foreign power. It as if the occupation in Iraq is on it’s way to becoming our model at home.
With the financial sector imploding and every sign that a new depression is kicking in, I can see why our owners want to take decisive control over the voting process. They don’t want a hero rising through the ranks.
A Hillary vs. McCain showdown will utterly divide our nation. When they pick McCain the divisiveness will be so thick, that people will generally accept the outcome.
Our owners do not want a candidate that would capture the hearts and minds of the voters. As that candidate won’t represent their interests.
The USA is entering a dark period. Our owners understand that they need to get ahead of the crisis. They won’t unrig the vote.
They need to divide our nation against itself.
marmon @ 63:
And the closer the vote count, the easier it is to steal with just one State's vote count. Dems would need an overwhelming turn out to win.
buzz @ 32:
Good semantic point.
Larry @ 62:
You have a weird imagination. What color is the sky on your planet?
What a bunch of whining. We need photo ID's just to do any transactions in this country. This is a bunch of b.s.
Larry @ 72:
Those transactions are privileges.
Voting is a right.
ysbaddaden @ 50:
How about if Holy Joe runs as a Democrat?
ChrisM @ 60:
Do not disagree as to ONLY U.S. citizens being permitted to vote. Not having yet
actually seen/read the Indiana proposed law, I am uncertain or unaware as to precisely
the language contained therein, however, I do have one concern and that relating to
"absentee voters". Does the law set a different standard for them? I remember rather
vividly how many military personnel, during the counting of votes in Florida in 2000,
were purged/disinfranchized because of a number of issues; such as failiure to have
ballot post-marked within the time frame required, signatures on ballots not matching
up w/on file signature, and other absentee ballot issues which resulted in not counting
the military persons, stationed overseas, ballot. I have been told that many, many
citizens of U.S. have and will continue to vote absentee; in fact I saw a statistic
indicating that as many as 4.5 to 6 percent of all eligible voters do so..and that is
NO small number. So, if anyone has info as to exactly how the required photo ID
is going to be applicable or applied to persons voting "absentee", I'd sure appreciate
some input.
Weasldog check the state website it is spelled out in plain english. My sky is blue, I bet your's is red.
Rusty Shackleford @ 73:
Not anymore...
Rusty Shackleford @ 52:
WHY? Who was it that approved these reactionary justices in the first place? Where was that filibuster, anyway? I don't know about you, but I haven't seen too many Dems try to stop the slide into fascism. Sure, Gore would have been better than Bush. That goes without saying, but it doesn't prove that our "democracy" isn't ruled by a bunch of corporate lackeys.
Do those justices care what it took to get our country to this point on civil and voting rights?
Whats next?
There is a precedent.....
John Pickering, judge of the U.S. District Court for New Hampshire; removed from office March 12, 1804.
West H. Humphreys, judge of the U.S. District Court for the middle, eastern, and western districts of Tennessee; removed from office June 26, 1862.
Robert W. Archbald, associate judge, U.S. Commerce Court; removed Jan. 13, 1913.
George W. English, judge of the U.S. District Court for eastern district of Illinois; resigned Nov. 4, 1926; proceedings dismissed.
Halsted L. Ritter, judge of the U.S. District Court for the southern district of Florida; removed from office April 17, 1936.
Harry E. Claiborne, judge of the U.S. District Court for the district of Nevada; removed from office Oct. 9, 1986.
Alcee L. Hastings, judge of the U.S. District Court for the southern district of Florida; removed from office Oct. 20, 1988.
Walter L. Nixon, judge of the U.S. District Court for Mississippi; removed from office Nov. 3, 1989
Funnily enough, we don't have to show IDs in Australia to vote and historically, voter fraud has been shown to be an absolute minimum (near zero).
In fact, generally elections in Australia have been found to be very fair and independent with voting districts not gerrymandered and out of the influence of government (in fact, the last redistribution saw the then Prime Minister losing his seat).
(Most of the voting fraud in Australia happens at the level of candidate selection internally within the party in a phenomenon called 'branch stacking' but that's another story).
I would bet not a single person on this site has ever been refused a vote. This is nothing more than a poor attempt at keeping a potential avenue for voter fraud open.
Doe no one but me think that this will also hurt Repubs? I'm thinking there are an awful lot of Repubs, expecially rural and elderly who do not have their ID and who will not be able to navigate through all the BS to obtain one. And this regulation seems impossible to enforce with absentee ballots. I don't see this as the end of our democracy. Am I missing something, here?
F
We need a law that each US citizen must submit to biometrical identification process, and have his identity and identity metrics entered into a national computer base, in order to prevent mass looting of the cash printed by the printing presses in the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and temporarily sored in bundles next to the presses.
But have there been any thefts?
'We think so, but we can't be sure, because this is such a clever crime, that the fact there is no evidence of it just emphasizes how clever it is, and therefore we must do everything to stop it, in case it exists', opinion of the US Supreme Court.
Larry @ 81:
Actually, I was not allowed to vote until I came back to the precinct with ID this last primary. I've been registered at my address since 1984. And I'm there every election. So Larry, you've pwnd yourself with a bad assumption.
Weaseldog @ 74:
Can Ron's detractor's ever use rational arguments?
Acolyte? The cult meme is laughable.
However as Paul supporter I can understand why many Dems would oppose him for this reason. I think Ron would pick
less aggressive judges though. He would nominate people who would honor the Constitution.
buzz @ 69:
See Florida 2000.
See Ohio 2004.
What lucky state gets to shred votes and throw the election in 2008?
I have to say I fully concur with many of the hostile comments here about moving past vote count fraud.
How ironic it would be if the Repubs take a deciding state by a single vote *legitimately* because too many skeptical and cynical disenfranchised registered Dems stayed away from the polls knowing that nobody on their side even cared that their votes wouldn't be accurately counted? Corruption poisons EVERYTHING.
You want a dedicated electorate? Then refrain from condescending lectures to the base and DEMAND that your state run HONEST elections.
The problem with the case for providing ID to vote is that the state in question allows you to vote with a state drivers license, but will allow you if you don't have a license to use a state ID Card (but you'll need a second form of ID like a Social Security Card, birth certificate, or passport). All of these cost money, the elderly and the poor may not have licenses because they may not drive. So the cost of obtaining these additional documents comes close to being a poll tax in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1965.
Here in Texas they're talking about putting smart chips into our licenses. So when it comes time to renew your license or get a new one it can cost as high as $100.00. Think of a family of four with two teenagers of driving age, how much would that cost a year?
Additionally, HAVA specified that voting precincts can hand out provisional ballots when you lack ID. The provisional ballots aren't counted right away, until it's been established that you is who you is.
Wednesday January 9, 2008
Bev Harris, HBO's Hacking Democracy, Speaks About Voter Fraud In The New Hampshire Primaries
http://www.alexjonesfan58.com/mp3/20080109_alexjones_bevharris.mp3
(download audio clip)
* source = http://www.blackboxvoting.org
-----------------------------------
More MP3 Audio Clips >
marmon @ 44:
Who are you two blabbering at? Just about every regular on this site has similar concerns and we've discussed them ad nauseum on thread after thread. Amato cared enough about the whole ball of wax, including your badly aimed gripe here, to create and run this site. THIS is one of the places to come and discuss this stuff; I don't which site you are confusing this one with.
HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Federalist Society opposes the following to name just a few:
1. Voting Rights Act
2. Civil Rights Act
3. Miranda Ruling
4. Privacy Rights---as to get rid of abortion rights
5. Disability rights
John Roberts, Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas are all card-carrying members of the Federalist Society. Republicans will only nominate those justices from the federal bench to the Supreme Court who hold the truths that are self-evident in the dogma of the Federalist Society. Get familiar with the Federalist Society and you will not be as "shocked" at these views.
The Democratic Party needs to be more alarmed when they vote for these Federalist Society members onto the federal bench or the U.S. Supreme Court.
It doesn't matter who is in the whitehouse. The two headed One party puppets drink from the same corporate trough. Wake up....This is all a show for us. Its time to take back this country from the fascist-corporate regime now. We sit on our backsided and complain/vote but we do nothing to change our situation. Wake up to what is befalling this country and the world. It will not be bloodless because power, greed and ego will not take their boots off our necks so easily. Revolution to a new paradigm..Now....
Larry @ 81:
Those ID cards won't stay free. You accuse me of being a communist, and you argue for free government services, billed back to the taxpayer? Strange.
Now if this goes nation wide and I lose my vote when this law is used to commit fraud through voter caging, what will you do to compensate me?
Planet B @ 78:
Note that nothing you said contradicts my suggestion.
That is dreadfully repugnant.
Bonkers @ 36:
this is absolutly untrue!!!!!!!!!!bushes poo is fished out of the toilet when hes away from the whitehouse by the cia agents , sniffed tenderly by the cia agents then carefully crated and shipped to barbra bush who inspects her boys poo sniffs it herself then has it put in bottles then stored in her food cubords for consumption later on when she runs out of strawberry jam spread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Roberts, Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas are all card-carrying members of the Federalist Society. Republicans will only nominate those justices from the federal bench to the Supreme Court who hold the truths that are self-evident in the dogma of the Federalist Society. Get familiar with the Federalist Society and you will not be as “shocked” at these views.
And no, they do not give a rat's ass about the elderly, or the poor, either. The Federalist Society is the Ku Klux Klan, except that they use "intellectual arguments" to make their flimsy cases.
John Roberts, Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas all excel in one thing: Sophistry.
Bonkers @ 89:
I think they're talking about this:
Pretty straightforward.
You could well be right. But it's hard to reconcile "cared enough" with statements like this:
I suppose it depends what your definition of "enough" is.
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always wins.
My apologies for being blunt. We have a one party system leading to a totalitarian form of regime. The supreme court is hijacked and so are the two houses.
It is the end of America; get used to it. Hillary may win if she abides by the new system. Are you for one world order? Then, democracy has lost its meaning.
If Hillary or the republican counterpart loses the primaries, then you have a surprise waiting.
Fight for your rights.
Preacher Boob @ 83:
Yes and every potential voter must be cavity checked in case they've secreted Magical Vote Stealing Elves on their bodies. The activities of Vote Stealing Elves are impossible to detect. A fact that underscores the seriousness of this problem.
pissed off patricia @ 33:
POP: See my comments at #75. Apparently no one on this site has the info
we'd like.
bonkers @ 89...
[Please. No personal attacks-Sitemonitor] The time to get out the fraud that is being reported in NH is now... not when the election is over. There are reports all over the place. The hand-counted votes matched the polling... the machine counted didn't. Not really concerned if you theorized about it two weeks ago... these reports are coming out yesterday and today. If this gets swept under the rug the next primary comes and nobody cares what happens in NH and people, including those on this board, will say lets move on and talk about Obama's charisma.
I do come to this site to discuss this stuff... and Commondreams which has yet to mention it either. And I used to go to huffington before it became the enquirer. To me it seems like machine voting is a central issue that isn't even being addressed right now in progressive circles.
Republican Party=state sanctioned voter terrorism.
The Republicans are a greater threat to America and freedom than any terrorist bombing at home or abroad. Their reich wing court sanctioned voter terrorism will continue.
Now that Kerry has endorsed Obama hopefully Obama, should he be nominated, will put up a bigger fight than Kerry did when he was cheated out of the Oval Office.
Welcome to voter supression Repug style. Democracy? HAHAHAHAHHA
Now what the Dems COULD do when they win the white house, but won't, is merely increase the number of seats on the SCOTUS and appoint more judges to dilute this idiocy. But, can't even get the Dems to vote against horrible bills, no way they would do something like that. Sad really.
Oh yeah . . . thank you America for dragging us back to the Dark Ages. You sure know how to vote for the best.
Ruthless People @ 103:
...as well as Al Gore when he was cheated too..
If all goes well our National Health Care card will act as our National photo ID and this silly argument will be moot.
billy bob tweed @ 97:
Perhaps I was wrong in assuming that by mentioning Gore you were speaking of the differences between Dems and Repubs generally. If so, I apologize, it's just that I've seen far too many people on far too many blogs say that there's some difference between the two parties when the only difference is one of degrees. They are both part of the corporate party, and are destroying our democracy - together.
Rusty Shackleford @ 93:
Miles Tougeaux @ 106:
And the 17 to 20 million uninsured(at present) "children"(ages 1 to 14) will then be
allowed to vote also..humor intended.
Concerning the Federalist's and Dr. Paul...
Ron is NOT a Federalist, yet is a Republican, this is one of the many reason's why bloc party thinking is flawed.
Ron is a Republican, but would never nominate one of these Executive branch toadies.
bleve @ 102:
Oh, that's so yesterday. Forgive and forget. It's who we are - it's what we do.
Then we get amnesia, and oh, I forgot...
Let's see if I understand Justice Robert's reasoning correctly ...
The possibility of voter impersonation fraud, which EVERY objective investigation has shown to be minuscule, is so damaging to the electoral system that it justifies voter ID rules that will exclude a thousand, or tens of thousands, of legitimate voters for every 'fraudulent' voter it excludes.
Am I missing anything?
bleve @ 102:
See, now that's interesting. Maybe I was overeacting to what I felt was some sort of slam against a lot of people here who do give a damn as much as you two appear to (bad syntax!). But what I saw was a lot of crabbing about lectures in the middle of one hell of a ranting lecture. Something tells me we are on the same side, so I am glad that SM deleted whatever insult you aimed at me, otherwise I might have been tempted to leave instructions as to where you could cram the rest of what is otherwise an interesting post.
tyree @ 95:
LOL
I stand corrected by the venerable tyree.
BlueMark @ 112:
Nope, you nailed it ! !
Aeon @ 29:
You could spring for it. It would a nice thing to do for an older woman on a fixed income. Or surprise her with groceries so she doesn't have to make that choice.
You sit and bitch about it or go do something.
asking you to show proof of citizenship is ligit so stop whining, how pathetic, oohhh I can't eat now!
ecotopian @ 116:
Not sure, but I would think that the example given was meant to be more inclusive/
expansive than of just "his 82 year old grandmother". The problem is that many
persons in the poor or lower end of the spectrum, with a similiar situation, may not
themselves be able to afford subsidizing their elderly family members. With the cost
of heating/fuel/etc. today, many are living much below the provety line and tho
loving and caring, may not be able to assist. Just saying...
Bonkers @ 113:
I'm glad he blocked it too... wasn't that intelligent just a quick emotional jab. I'm sure we're on the same side too. I've just had it with so many people on boards that I generally respect talking about the results as if they're legitimate and no one mentioning that, one, the mere fact that a private corporation can be counting our votes and there's not a riot speaks to how dumb we as a nation have become and two, that these particular machines have been shown to be hackable within ten minutes by random people with limited programming experience.
Not that I'd expect the msm to talk about it but its amusing to see them all look at eachother and scratch their heads... "we worship polling, what happened". Its about to get crazy.
Shucks I wonder if Lou Dobb's will once again pretend to care about voting machines.He was all over the story a half a year ago,but even then refused to zero in on who **cough** may have been profiting from the situation- never once bringing up the Pugs in the context of 2000 or--more to the point--2004.As long as he and his equally detached cohorts mention things from time to time,they get to seem like real live,super Neat-O reporters with cameras and lights an' stuff that really work!
pinkobait @ 120:
Lou Sobbs in a story in and of himself.
bleve @ 119:
I'm glad he blocked it too... wasn't that intelligent just a quick emotional jab.
Great! Me, too. That's now water under the bridge.
No, I know what you mean. Anytime I bother to get encouraged or even DIScouraged by voting results, I do a double-take and get that creeping feeling that I can't trust any result wrought by this system in place. Pisses me off to no end.
Fortunately, I live in a state where our new Sec. of State is making moves to try and make voting safer and more legit, for what that's worth. We'll see.
Bonkers @ 122:
Unfortunately I live in a state where the candidate is elected before our primary... now that's some democracy for you.
Why all the fuss. What's the point of voting, anyway?
Our once-proud two-party political system has degenerated into the Gay Mafiosi, once known as the republicans, and the Wimpering Castrati, once known as the democratic party.
Both are now tools of the Controllers, consisting of the Corporate Conquering Party, TAIPAC, RRR (Really, Really, Rich), and a couple of con men who own churches.
Our whole economic system has become a giant circle-jerk, in which the Controllers bribe the politicians to award tax dollars to the Controllers, a portion of which is returned as bribes to the politicians to award more tax dollars to the Controllers, with everyone in the loop who sees or touches the money taking a taste along the way.
The programs of the voting machines which fail to record our votes are kept secret, because they are proprietarily owned by the Controllers, the formulas for the medicines our children need when they are sick are owned by the Controllers, the very genes which make-up our being are patented and owned by the Controllers.
We, the once-proud engines of a flourishing democracy, are now serfs.
tyree @ 95:
ewe... chocolate bushberry preserves.
Can Supreme Court Justices be impeached?
This is just a ploy to keep certain people from voting. It's unnecessary for an open and honest election and everyone knows that. If the Repubs can't win honestly, they cheat. Lucky for them they have the Supreme Court in their pocket.
In Indiana at least, you can get a free state id card for voting purposes.
There is a certain minimum amount of "having your shit togetherness" that is required to vote or function as an active part of a democracy. You have to be able to find the polling place for one thing, be able to get yourself inside it, sign your name or make your X usually, in general it is frowned on if you don't have the self control to avoid peeing on the other voters or humping someone's leg. It's not exactly a HIGH bar mind you but it is a bar none the less.
You also have to be able to prove that you are who you say you are. In order to do that, you need to be able to find your license branch, be able to get yourself inside it, sign your name or make your X usually, in general it is frowned on if you don't have the self control to avoid peeing on the other voters or humping someone's leg. It's not exactly a HIGH bar mind you but it is a bar none the less.
Hoenstly I wish the bar was a little higher, if it had been we might not have had 8 years of Dubya.
ShouldBeWorking @ 15:
http://www.in.gov/bmv/3700.htm
"To obtain a free identification card for voting purposes, you must visit a license branch with sufficient documentation and state that you need a free identification card for voting purposes."
Aeon @ 29:
poll taxers being poll taxers. Anything to keep the privatizers in power
I'm just going to guess wildly here: the K-rats (Kennedy, Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Scalia.) vote in favor of the Republicans.
They're supreme, all right. Supreme fascists.
Fine. Let the Supremes keep trying to reverse the civil rights movement and inaugurate a new era of fascism. If we have to fire up another round of civil disobedience it will make the first look like a garden party. And maybe people need a little wakeup call anyway, considering the nonchalance with which the NH anomalies are being greeted in large hunks of the left blogosphere.
The second amendment doesnt just protect the rights of Republicans, ya know.
And electoral politics isnt everything. Electoral politics lags behind many, many forms of change. we should be focusing on those - like reforming the media so we can get out our message and win elections by enough margin that cheating wont be an issue.
Maybe they should give out free cans of soup.
unholyguy @ 128:
Well, I hope we all draw the only reasonable and necessary conclusion. To get out find two or three people on our own who either aren't registered or don't vote, and get them to vote for whoever the Dem candidate for Prez is. Because I guarantee you that Hilary, Obama, Edwards, no matter what their other differences, won't treat the Supreme Court as an extension of the RNC, the Chamber of Commerce and the Federalist Society. In short, the current 5-4 lineup is most pro-business, anti-consumer, anti-environmental, anti-worker court in the last 50 years. And be ready to back the Senate if a Repub gets the White House when the Senate blocks nominees who are nothing more than more recycled Roberts, ALito, Scalia...It's a pity that the average American voter forgets that the SCOTUS will have a longer impact on their lives than any election, but that elections do determine who gets on the Court.
"Come on people it's almost Election Day. We've got so much work to do. John, get the shredder..."
I must protest - the way you excerpt the article makes it look like the NYTimes used the phrase "challenge this canard" when, if you follow the link to the article, it clearly doesn't. Maybe there are different rules for the web that I am not aware of, but by italicizing your rephrase and not putting it in [brackets] you are not taking credit for rephrasing the statement. This amounts to lying. We get enough of this from the right-wing, both through its blogs, talk radio and MSM representatives, and we don't need it on the left. I am a big fan of C&L, but am very disappointed by your elision of journalistic ethics.
That said, this decision is scary as hell. And furthermore, Scalia et al.'s distaste for a "facial challenge" is absurd - Bush v. Gore was a facial challenge (it wasn't brought by a Florida voter whose rights under the equal protection clause were violated by the different standards for recounts, but instead to protect in advance those who might be affected in such manner).
I'm sure Mr. Amato is being asked out for many nice lunches after his site became so successful.
Looks like the integration of Mr. Amato into he NeoLiberal elite is nearing its completion. He has new friends now. Powerful people that certainly knows better and knows what the priorities are than the stupid, unworthy and ignorant masses.
By ROBERT C. KOEHLER
Tribune Media Services
January 10, 2008
As the breathless sports coverage of the presidential primaries bursts around me this morning, I’m doing my best to resist surrendering to the contrived drama about “comeback kids” and the flying shrapnel of numbers and hold onto my troubled skepticism about the electoral process, or at least most of it.
First of all, before we get too enthusiastic about feminist solidarity or wax knowingly about New Hampshire Democrats’ traditional soft-heartedness toward the Clinton family, let’s ponder yet again the possibility of tainted results, which is such an unfun prospect most of the media can’t bear to remember that all the problems we’ve had with electronic voting machines — and Diebold machines in particular, which dominate New Hampshire polling places — remain unsolved.
Did the Hillary campaign really defy the pollsters? She had been trailing Barack Obama by 13 percentage points, 42 to 29, in a recent Zogby poll, as election watchdog Brad Friedman pointed out. And the weekend’s “rapturous packed rallies for Mr. Obama,” as the New York Times put it, “suggested Mrs. Clinton was in dire shape.”
So when she emerged from the Tuesday primary with an 8,000-vote and 3-percentage-point victory over Obama, perhaps — considering the notorious unreliability, not to mention hackability, of Diebold machines — the media might have hoisted a few red flags in the coverage, rather than immediately chalk the results up to Clinton’s tears and voter unpredictability. (Oh, if only more reporters considered red flags patriotic.)
The fact is, whatever actually happened in New Hampshire voting booths on Tuesday, our elections are horrifically insecure. For instance, Bev Harris, of the highly respected voting watchdog organization Black Box Voting, recently wrote that the Diebold 1.94w optical scan machines used in some 55 percent of New Hampshire precincts (representing more than 80 percent of the state’s voters) are “the exact same make, model and version hacked in the Black Box Voting project in Leon County (Florida)” a few years ago. They haven’t been upgraded; the security problems haven’t been fixed.
National, or at least media, denial about this situation doesn’t say much for the strength of our democracy.
The other recent chill I felt over the state of that democracy was symbolized by the gleeful thumbs up that ABC president David Westin gave his staff 20 minutes before airtime for Saturday’s candidate debate, when word came in that a judge had ruled against Dennis Kucinich’s last-minute lawsuit to gain inclusion in the debate. The staff cheered, the Hollywood Reporter noted with barely concealed satisfaction, as though to say: A-list celebrities only, Dennis!
The exclusion of Kucinich from the debates, and the mainstream media’s indifference to and/or tacit approval thereof, strikes me as part of the same phenomenon as their inability to incorporate news of ongoing voting-machine insecurity into actual election coverage.
The unacknowledged backstory of the election process, you might say, is that it’s primarily entertainment; and downer stuff like unreliable numbers or a short, pedestrian candidate who insists on talking about real — and possibly unpleasant — issues just don’t belong in the package presented to the public. No grit, please! No matter the current administration has trashed the Constitution, dragged us into a disastrous war, abandoned New Orleans, blown national security and made torture fashionable, this election is about . . . feelings, personal drama.
So with Kucinich out of the debates and out of mainstream consciousness, the simmering concerns of far more than 1 percent of the population are also excluded from these debates that, after all, are about the nation’s and the world’s future. I was dreading the onset of the primary season because I knew it would not be what it affected to be: something, uh, related to reality.
Thus impeachment, that unpleasant topic, is not something any of the top-tier, media-vetted Democratic candidates will be talking about, no matter that it has far more support among the electorate than the impeachment of Hillary’s husband ever did. And the Iraq war itself is reduced to a yes or no question, with no discussion of the bloated U.S. defense budget on the table, or the role of aggressive neocon-style militarism in our national security. Westin’s thumbs up signaled media exclusion of all such matters from the national debate.
That said, I acknowledge taking wary heart in Obama’s remarkable road to national prominence and (hypothesizing fair elections) his reasonable shot at the Democratic presidential nomination. He is energizing African-Americans and many other disaffected voters, and just maybe, as he ascends to the highest levels of power, he really intends to represent them.
Robert Koehler, an award-winning, Chicago-based journalist, is an editor at Tribune Media Services and nationally syndicated writer. You can respond to this column at bkoehler@tribune.com.
I feel like I am living in a banana republic. It did not take Roberts long to make himself known. We only have another 30-40 years of that.
Our current system is completely unaccountable and completely corrupt.
A national strike will be required to start the process of recapturing our Democracy.
This possibility will arise as the economy goes into free-fall (and it will).
To say "forget NH and focus on..." is ridiculous. These are crimes with no account.
...
This kind of decision from this Supreme Court is no surprise. People who think the decision is a mistake should begin NOW to work to make sure every voter in Indiana (and everywhere else this kind of law is passed) has the necessary identification on election day. There will be no reason to whine the day after, since we have fair warning. In the end, if it's the law (and it sounds like it will be) then the answer is to comply and beat the Republicans at their own game.
This would be a good place for people like Soros to put some of their money. No one should lack ID because they lack money, transportation, etc.
When you are forced to obtain a state ID, you have to pay for it. Then, it becomes a "poll tax", which is outlawed in this country. Are they ignoring this fact?
Wow! Our Supreme Court believes that they don't have to uphold the law. What a surprise!
Just another sign of how Republicans hate America...and any of you sorry ass lurkers out there - go ahead - argue this point with me. Try and tell me how you and your Repugs are more patriotic them liberals are. But then again, if it wasn't for cheating I guess your party wouldn't win at all would they?
miss_kitty @ 84:
So uou in fact DID vote and used your ID. See it works so what is your issue?
The Extreme Court is a ridiculous laughing stock. It isn't a court anymore, it's a friggin' cathouse. I don't even think enough of those corrupt, shit-for-brains crooks to waste the energy spitting in their faces. What a bunch of slimey scumbags.
VOTING ID RULES ARE RACIST,and of story.
If you like voting id rules,YOU MIGHT BE A REDNECK.
Can't people just pick up an id? There's like 15 different types of ID you can use. You can even use your social security number.
What's the big deal here? Honestly, picking up an ID for $10 every 5 or 10 years isn't asking a whole lot.
I'd be more worried that democrats have 40% superdelegates and even though Obama won in Iowa, by delegate votes, he lost. In NH clinton 'won', yet the delegates represent her and Obama as if a tie. That's a bigger problem.
JAKE3988 wants voting id rules,HE MUST BE A REDNECK.
It's already been said several times upthread, but once again:
"If you do not possess an ID that is acceptable for voting purposes, PL 109-2005 requires the BMV to issue an Indiana State ID Card free of charge.To obtain a free ID card for voting purposes from any BMV branch, you will need to supply the necessary documentation, as explained in the Necessary Documentation Checklist."
http://www.in.gov/sos/photoid/how.html
So the "poll tax" argument is moot. The real problem is, of course, whether people are able to go get these free IDs. Transportation is an issue, especially given that BMV branches are closing left and right. Many of the smaller branches have been eliminated in an effort to cut costs.
There are exemptions for people over the age of 65 who don't have birth certificates (http://www.in.gov/sos/photoid/birthcert.html). Beyond that, all voters must present a current photo ID.
It's a sad day to be a Hoosier. I'll know that HAVA had an effect on the election if Bush's Bitch Mitch is re-elected as governor.
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