McCain wins South Carolina! Gets half the votes of 2000: Hillary Wins in Nevada
By John Amato Friday Jan 18, 2008 8:39pm
In a close one, St. McCain held off Huckabee for the win. Huckabee slams Romney by saying that McCain won without the both of them "attacking each other." Too bad for Huck. I was rooting for you.
On FOX, wingnut LA Talk radio host Larry Elder said McCain is OLD! You can see the hatred of McCain begin to seep out from the base...
Via Email :
In 2000 McCain took 237,888 votes in South Carolina. Tonight he has just over half those number of votes with 134,474 as I write this. Republican turnout will be well below where it was in 2000. More than 100,000 votes short. With five Republican primaries, Rudy Giuliani has half the number of votes of Ron Paul.
I'll have more on the Democratic Party soon, but Steve has a great point:
Let me say this again. The Republicans and the media are trying to divide the Democratic party by stenographically advancing false charges of racism and sowing the seeds of division by keeping voters mis-informed. We need to be aggressive in fighting this venomous nonsense every day.
Cillizza tries to make sense of the delegates...Digby says: Caucuses are always ridiculous and should be done away with. We need several rotating regional primaries.
Login or Register to post comments.
Huckabee lost even with a lil baby jebus endorsement?
How awful!
Sawth Caroleyena
this makes the baby Jebus cry
the fix is in -the global oligarchy prefers clinton and mccain, both thoroughly despicable puppets.
so, what's our next move, fellow patriotic american common folk?
Let's start a rumor that McCain has an illegitimate black baby.
well, that's gotta feel pretty good to mcCAVE, after his trashing there the last time... vindication...
Ahh, South Carolina. Figures they'd vote for Gone InSane this time around.
I mean, in 2000, InSane was the subject of Rovian push-polls that asked whether they'd be less inclined to vote for him if they knew he were the father of an illegitimate African American baby. Although InSane had never reproduced with an African American woman, the people of SC discovered not long thereafter that their own beloved racist, Dixie-crat, multi-term Senator had indeed fathered an African American baby with a woman not his wife. So, maybe they figure the best way to look less silly this time around is to vote for Gone InSane.
Poor Republicans. Their choices this year are so awful I almost feel sorry for them.
This election makes me miss drinking.
Russia must be watching todays Republican Elections.
Reuters via Yahoo! News - Jan 19 2:05 PM
Russia's armed forces chief said on Saturday Moscow could use nuclear arms pre-emptively if under serious threat, his comments marking no change in defense policy but underlining a renewed military confidence.
here's what i think the global oligarchy are planning:
continue rigging our primaries with their uncertified diebold software, trot out hillary and mccain, destroy hillary with details of her relationship with muslim woman huma abedin, obtained through extensive neocon-controlled surveillance, run mccain with lieberman in a b.s. "bi-partisan ticket", have mccain assassinated promptly, and use american military might to blow the crap out of iran and anyone else who dares go against rothschild/bilderberg plans for financial world domination.
am i allowed to say that on this site?
James @ 5:
With Hillary Clinton ...
and if you don't think these powermongers sit around and dream up conspiracies, i'd say you're pretty naive...
John, explain how someone in an election 'holds' someone off?
Assuming voting is performed 'legally' ... the citizens vote for their choice and the votes are counted.
I know its a metaphor, but it misses the key point of the purpose of elections. It isnt a race, its a choice.
McCain is old, but that's not the problem. The problem is that he is a very typical conservative Republican, despite what the press says about the "straight" talker.
John McCain's black baby was Hillary's pimp and MADE her do Vince Foster just so he would have the dirt on her.
The LA talk radio guy was right, for God's sake. McCain IS old. Even if I were a Republican, I'd not want another elder to go koo-koo-ko-ko-puffs and have to have his wife wisper what to say in his ear. One case of senility in a lifetime is enough.... not to mention adding onto to that with a Bush total ignorance.
bob @ 15:
ignoramus
ROM Spaceknight @ 12:
The only conspiracy there is, is creating another conspiracy to prop up the failures of the last conspiracy that didn't quite go as well as planned.
The Not So Great Game
L.A. Confidential @ 18:
"the only conspiracy there is"?
conspiracies are dreamed up every day, amigo.
as surely as two points determine a line, two sick f#cks with the same scheme in mind determine a conspiracy.
Karen @ 7:
I don't. I'm happy for the miserable bastards.
Bad news for the Dem side, as SC's voting machines are rigged.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. McCain IS OLD! And he's pretty corny too. I really don't see the appeal. I'm sorry Huckabee couldn't turn out enough fundies to pull this one out. I hope Giuliani takes Florida. LOL at the Mac is back chants. Repugs are so lame.
This has to be a huge blow to the Huckabee camp. He had to be thinking this was done deal, or close to it. If he shows poorly in FL, he may see his fundraising take a major hit. He will not be able to hang with Romney if that happens.
ROM Spaceknight @ 19:
Doesn't matter if it's some dank back room or a G7 five star hotel in some foreign getaway shut off to the public. They all do cigars and whiskey and think okay what are we going to do about the "little people."
pHuckabee really needed this one, even if it was a narrow victory.
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser." - Leo Durocher
Tequila @ 21:
If they even work thanks to the great quality workmanship.
L.A. Confidential @ 24:
yes, i believe we are in agreement.
ROM Spaceknight @ 27:
i rather look forward to the fight.
as a descendent of adam weishaupt, i enjoy reminding the descendents of mayer bauer/rothschild just how full of $#!+ they really are.
enlightenment, my @$$. it's all money and power with these scumbags.
Hell. I was rooting for Huckabuck. The original Righteous Brother.
I'm surprised to see McCain still in the running. Someone usually catches him by now.
Get it: if you elect Hillary, you'll loose.
Jo @ 29:
huckabee is total rightwing wingnut, but i do like the fact that he disrupts the oligarchy's designs on america.
i'll put it to you this way: if it's huckabee vs. hillary, i'm going to go work for huck; polish off the nuttier evangelical endtimes crap, and stand up for ordinary americans.
i'm literally ready to die to end the globalist/corporate stranglehold on my country that's been in place since 11/22/63.
MSM and the democrats are also advancing false charges of racism against a republican candidate who beat McCain with a second place finish in NV, the only conservative, and only placing candidate running who will bring our troops home (and has the greatest number of donations from active duty).
Funny. I got to the word "racist" and immediately knew you were talking about Ron Paul.
Nevada must be some kind of weird state.... I mean
Hillary Clinton got 5,355 Votes...
Ron Paul got 6,087 VOTES!
Bah...
ageism coming from larry elder??
hey, were these same fucks saying that reagan was old??
and reagan had was experiencing the first stages of alzheimers throughout his seond term
the repugs are a mess...couldnt happen to a bunch of nicer people
oh, and clinton won the popular vote....obama got more delegates
Bahsay @ 36:
Uh, no. The GOP numbers are raw numbers, but the DEM numbers are delegates. The Dems creamed the GOP in turnout today.
Ah ok, that will teach me to get my info from msnbc
I guess the slow witted republicans aren't listening to Rush Limbaugher anymore.
How sad. :(
Hey McCain! Rush Limbaugh Hates You!!!
Get out the vote and the Republicans lose. Simple straightforward strategy.
No problem. Theres a lot of confusion over that. The 2 parties held their caucuses totally differently. The GOP just sat still and did an up or down vote. The Dems moved around the rooms into groups, held second rounds, etc. The reason for this is that due to the incredible amount of blood dripping from the Republicans' hands, they had to stay fairly stationary.
OH MY GOD, I am soooooo glad I was not the only one to notice Russert's attempt to pull out the race card again on MSNBC tonight. The democrats are not going to play into this on MLK weekend. His hatred of Hillary is making him seem unhinged recently. He brought up the Sista Soilder comments from years ago tonight as if we as blacks support that bigoted rapper that most of us never even heard of before. He is clearly trying to stir something up in the media and among voters. It would be suicide for dems to bite b/c Obama needs to pick up more white voters and women and Clinton needs more black voters....
I hope the other liberal blogs focus on Russert and Brian "Limbaugh doesn't get enough credit" Williams anti-democratic party media bias and the glowing coverage of Mr. "Bomb Iran" McCain.
Also, please notice Andrea Mitchell's hateful coverage of the Clinton campaign, I love Olbermann but if she continues to cover Clinton I will turn to CNN or ABC w/ Charlie Gibson.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 37:
obama is BY FAR the best candidate in this race.
the most intelligent, the most sincere, the most even-handed.
and i think he'll win, provided those damn voting machines don't continue stealing it from him.
director mueller, why won't you investigate? what are we, the taxpayers of america, paying you for? to sip coffee and solve crossword puzzles, after your morning dump?!
Romney is playing the numbers game and not taking too seriously who finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd.. he is the only one who candidate from both parties who talks about delegate numbers.
Bizzar-O world. Clinton get popular vote win but Obama gets the delegate numbers win. Bizzar-O
James @ 5:
Let's spread a rumor that McCain was an illegitimate black baby.
xoites defends Constitution @ 41:
Yeah. Has nothing to do with the corruption.
The racist comments, race-baiting and demeaning portrayals of African Americans in general and Senator Obama in particular, were started by Democrats not Republicans. AA's have been reading these comments on Progressive blogs for months. We know which liberal bloggers are shilling for Hill and Bill. We know which bloggers have promoted racial tensions at the expense of African Americans, despite the fact that we voted overwhelmingly for Bill Clinton twice. The damage to the Democratic party will be felt for a long time. Some people have no idea how much pain they have caused their fellow citizens.
It is beyond shameful.
"We need to be aggressive in fighting this venomous nonsense every day."
And we need to strategically go on offense when necessary.
You dipshits really need to stop with the black baby rumor nonsense.
Pete @ 38:
Thanks for mentioning this. I was about to do the same. I know the Paulistas love their guy but no way he gets my vote before any Dem candidate.
nonbeliever @ 50:
I agree. If i wanted to be a Republican i would change party affiliation.
Caucuses are always ridiculous and should be done away with?
I participated in my first caucus today in Las Vegas. It was a great experience. We ended up with two groups - one for clinton and one for Obama with a small group of uncommitteds. Both sides were allowed fifteen minutes to convince the uncommitteds to come to their side. It was passionate and cordial. The two sides each took their share but everyone ended up talking to each other about the issues long after the voting ended. I think it was a wonderful display of democracy.
Obama beat Clinton in delegates. Isn't that all that matters? Obama's people are saying they won.
Bahsay @ 39:
I made a similar mistake earlier in the day Bahsay! I was confused as to why it looked like the Republicans had 4x the delegates as the Democrats. I got my info off of CNN.com and their chart isn't any clearer.
ROM Spaceknight @ 33:
I like your vision - restoring America back to its citizens. But, I have serious reservations about whether Huckabee is the man that will lead you to there. We simply cannot have a neo-conservative christian fascist in the WH. They will load the court vacancies with others just like them. They will fill the federal government with others like them (like they currently are). We simply cannot afford this.
macaddict @ 53:
I wish i could say the same. The Clinton folks dominated the process from begining to end and cut short any second round from happening. There was no 15 speech alloted to anyone.
The delegates are all that matter. Obama is the winner here, but just like when he tied Clinton for delegates in NH, the media is too lazy and complacent to deal with it and just wants to quickly proclaim a victor on the easiest metric that they can.
xoites defends Constitution @ 52:
I heard Obama has TWO black babies!
Thank god it wasn't Fuckabee. In my opinion McCain's the least scary of the Republican candidates (although that's not saying much), so I'm rooting for him, and then hoping he'll lose later on. Woo.
myiq2xu @ 59:
ya, and i hear he bangs a black woman almost nightly
Well, I'm happy. I'd like to think that those Americans who believe Hillary Clinton will behave like a fascist Republican as President will eat their words, but I bet their memories will be far too short to truly recall and contrast such things.
It's also nice to see the Republican Party in such disarray. I am not hatemonger, of course; I actually feel a little bad for US conservatives because they have no one to vote for and they are feeling disenfranchised by the band of merry idiots who're currently on parade.
MacDaKnife @ 56:
oh, i agree... i'm an obama supporter. but i refuse to support hillary clinton, rudy ghouliani or john mccain under ANY circumstances.
if the rothschilds support a candidate, i'm dutibound by my german-american weishaupt blood to stand in opposition.
Well, looks like switching from being an Episcopalian to a baptist can do for man.
Please visit my homepage if your bored.
I guess you heard Bill's giving Hillary a rigged election for the anniversary this year.
Mattastic @ 60:
I'm rooting for Romney, being a Mormon and all he won't beat Clinton or Obama. He's still strong in the delegate count.
Mccain needs to go on Dr. Drew Pinsky's celebrity rehab show for his addiction to saying "my friends"
Go Obama!!!
ROM Spaceknight @ 10:
you took the thoughts right out of my mind,mccains a dead man!
My god . . . Nixon was correct. he's dumb as shit.
Grochi Harzep @ 32:
I'm afraid that's right. I used to like Bill Clinton, but I've lost all respect for the guy for his use of Rovian tactics. If Hil-Billy becomes the party's candidate, you can pretty much guarantee it'll mean 4 more years of a Repub in the whitehouse.
not this time @ 48:
well, i'll bite...
i'd really like to know which blogs are which... name names...
will check back tomorrow... thanks... g'nite.
I predict Hillary will get the nod for the Dems eventually and either Romney or McCain for the ReTHUGs, and the Dems will LOSE the Whitehouse but have a massive majority in Congress.
If things continue like this we can look forward to possibly twenty-eight years of uninterrupted Bush/Clinton dynastic governance or another doddering Republican in the Dutch Reagan mold.
Karl Rove's plan: (a) When Obama loses to Republican nominee, America isn't ready for a black president, or (b) When Clinton loses to Republican nominee, America isn't ready for a woman president; (c) that's why Republican dominated/owned media don't draw attention to Edwards. It would be more difficult to explain why Gore, Kerry and Edwards all lose to Republican nominee in light of the current disasterous Republican White House/Senate/Congress rule. Of course, we all know, as does the American Government, that the voting machines are hackable. The power belongs to those counting the votes, not to those casting the votes.
ROM Spaceknight @ 4:
Now there's the rub.
how sad for progressives and the country that war-mongering Hillary snowed this state.
ROM Spaceknight @ 4:
Vote Uncommitted.
Clinton/Obama 2008!
Bahsay @ 36:
PLEASE, remember Nevada was a CAUCUS
South Carolina a PRIMARY
BIG DIFFERENCE
Who says there is problems with the economy? BS I say if you read CNN's political donations page.......over 412 MILLION given to the candidates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/map/
Obviously, there is no recession.......oh wait, these are RICH people that donated all this right?
The fix is in. If the race is between John McCain and Hillary, the Dems lose, and it will be the fault of every democrat who voted for her in the primaries. Hillary has a disapproval rating nationwide of 48%, John McCain's disapproval rate nationwide is 28%. You do the math. John Edwards is the only candidate that can beat any one of the Republicans in a national Election. However, since most Progressives seem to be brain dead these days, and think Hillary or Obama can beat John McCain, our country will go down in flames, as John McCain will be elected the next president of the United States . Good Luck, I'm looking for another country to locate to. I do not want to be around here to see this country fall apart, piece by piece.
Cleo @ 75:
you have so little faith in the electorate
so if what you say is true, this country isnt worth saving....eff em all
Obama breaking story in Sun Times, what is this....http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/749138,obama20web.article
OOps, this is the link
Stellaa @ 84:
Oh the shock! A politician that might have *gasp* connections to corruption!! Oh my!! Bet you won't find any of that in the ReTHUG party!!!
As many as 90 percent of the electronic voting machines in one coastal South Carolina county did not work when polls opened in Saturday's Republican primary
Weather, voting machine issues dog SC http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080119/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_sc_turnout
We all know you fear McCain. Your only chance for victory are setbacks in Iraq this Summer/Fall. Aside from that , you will lose. You know it and I know it. A Anti-Torture, Anti-Bush Spending, moderate. A nightmare for all of you. Good luck.
Are the people who put out the disapproval numbers in anyway connected to the ones who conducted the polls in NH? I like Edwards and saw those polls but I don't think we should put much faith in polls anymore. Even when they say what you want them to say.
ConcernedCanuck @ 86:
Read the story it's more than "connections".
otto @ 77:
Democratic policies that, "floats all boats and not just the yachts", doesn't have any appeal to you?
Sany @ 82:
never understimate the stupidity of the american people
Sany @ 82:
Are you going to take your bat and ball too?
I don't think McCain is hated by the conservative leadership. SwiftBoaters have put their money to his campaign. That is symptomatic of what is going on here. The conservatives know that McCain can win and that he presents the best option is this era to win the presidency. He can draw out distinctions from Bush on independence, competence, leadership,etc, while he has clearly made strong indications that he is no longer independent, but part of the conservative hardcore, not the least of which is Iraq, abortion, and other hot issues for that base.
They know that against Hilary McCain could rely on a lot of ammo, legit and not legit, to make a favorable comparison.
With the rest of the Republican contenders, McCain is clearly seen as the best chance to win the presidency. And he will garner enough independent votes in the national election. He actually is a war hero, and even my vote would have some pause if it was Hilary vs. McCain based on residue from the old McCain that I admired more (I wanted a Bill Bradley-McCain contest back in the day).
McCain is what the republican leadership views as the best chance to win a Republican presidency again after the staggering incompetence, harm, mismanagement, and failures of the Bush administration, and still be considered an agent of change. Talk about a comeback. For the Repubs to win the election SHOULD be considered an insane upset.
But the Democratic party has proved incompetent time and time again and I don't see any fundamental shift in their leadership. Simply, a change has occurred in citizens' view of the Bush administration, and the Democrats simply gain the largesse of this dislike and s-l-o-w realization that BushCheney was as terrible as some thought 7 years back. This is not an acceptance of Democrats, simply a rejection of Republicans who have obviously failed...a realization that was extremely slow in coming. My point is that Republicans and their relative excellence in framing the issues still have the upper hand. Proof: how can it not be an overwhelming landslide for Democrats this election after this worst presidency in the last 30 plus years, perhaps one of the worst ever? Does anyone doubt that it will be a competitive election, in spite of overwhelming evidence on Iraq, the economy, cronyism at every agency, corporate misdeeds, Blackwater, alienation of our allies, torture, and all the rest?
This scenario does worry me - Hilary vs. McCain - because I can see this as business as usual, regardless of who wins. Even if McCain does pander to the Christian right, or is beholden to SwiftBoat types...I have a hard time believing he does not want what is best for company, though his judgment especially in Iraq is suspect.
I shudder to think what will happen if Obama is not elected at this critical time, in our world, in our fight against terrorism, in our economy, in our Constitutional interpretation. To be honest, though, he is starting to disappoint me a little. I worry about a cult of personality there without enough real substance there lately, like he is sliding into the mistakes of his well-intentioned predecessor politicians and gets changed by this fight. He should welcome the vetting, the loss of New Hampshire and now Nevada, if he is the man I hope he is. Fight for this country if you are the person you say. Dont expect a free ride on "can bring people together". I dont like hearing that what you can do differently is simply be non-white, or an international man. No. Do you know what is going on in other countries historically? Do you understand the class discussion John Edwards has brought out that is true. There are two tiers going on. Fight for REAL change. Do more than inspire with performances. Words do matter, personality does matter, shaping messages does matter, running a smart campaign does matter, vision in a broad sense does matter. But Wisdom, Focus, Independence of thought, deep understanding of principles, grounding in true democratic values, where we are with global warming urgencies, an understanding of China, Russia, India, nuclear issues, Palestinian-Israeli history, the delicate balance with Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Syria, Saudi and gulf nations, Kurdish motivations, the integration of Muslims in America, as well as the effect in Europe, the rise of the Hispanic community in America and the importance of addressing this varied community, and perhaps most important a deep understanding of the two tier America we have currently and the will, power and ability to slowly change this trend - these matter far more than words, personality, general good will and acceptability, using the word change, etc.
I apologize for the overkill, but the change I and many would like to see, REAL change for different results in our children's lives and our own, will only occur if Obama is who I hope he is, and can bring us all to understand how we all are invested in our own decisions' outcomes. Ultimately, it always is up to us, but we need some legitimate inspiration, and by we I mean people I disagree with as well. If not Obama, then perhaps some crazy occurrence where Edwards makes a sweeping comeback.
80% of us really do want to see the same things - intelligence, leadership, excellence (beyond competence), vision, and short and long term - a better life for our children, and children who are more intelligent, more committed to their country, more healthy, more excellent, more engaging of each other, more aware of what happens in the big world we are part of, more patient and more wise. And more happy.
When Gingrich gives the Republicans a 20% chance to win and the Dems an 80% chance you know the Cons have some serious problems.
If McCain wins the nomination and Bloomberg runs it could possibly hurt him more than the Dem candidate since he's so popular among independents. Just food for thought. Also, we want change but it won't happen overnight or even with the next administration. What we have is a chance for the beginning of fundamental change in this country, but its going to take time and sacrifice.
IR @ 93:
obama doest stand a chance in hell of winning the presidency!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sany @ 82:
Not everyone votes based on fear. Not everyone panders to the Republican Party when they vote. Some people vote for who they feel is most fit to lead the country.
The Democrats are falling perfectly into the republican trap. Hillary or Obama will be a likely win for them. Next, they're going to get their corporate buddies to squelch Edwards out of the media. He is the one they fear most. It's unfortunate that a large percentage of Americans are sheep and fall victim to the corporate media's propaganda and don't have the intelligence to see the big picture of what's happening to this country. An Edwards/Obama ticket would scare the hell out of the republicans.
tyree @ 91:
Dharma Pup @ 71:
Heh. 'I used to like Bill Clinton, but he attacked the hot, new, young politician that I'm pinning my hopes and dreams on, so obviously something must be wrong with Bill Clinton.' And now you make fun of him for being from the south. Are you sure you ever liked the man? You sound like quite the fairweather supporter, easily pushed this way or that.
I mean, "Rovian tactics?" Where you do people get this shit?
He argued that Barack Obama's carefully constructed image is a "fairy tale," and frankly, there's something to that. Barack Obama has been receiving a cakewalk in terms of news-media coverage, especially when contrasted with the endless lambasting of Hillary Clinton that most networks are dedicated to. I don't blame him for getting frustrated. Obama is charismatic and shrewd, but don't mistake that for depth of character. He offers a lot of big talk (though he rarely uses specifics) about fixing Washington, taking it back, offering hope, uniting the country - but that's all it is thus far. Talk. If you want to see Barack Obama as the young, hip, handsome man who is going to save you from yourself - fine. But there are others who have been around for quite a while and have seen smooth talkers come and go, and who want to see Obama truly challenged. There are those who want to see Obama back up his talk with more groundbreaking decisions in the Senate. Because right now, he seems green at worst, and average at best.
Rove is notorious for identifying opponents' strengths and undermining them. In this case the democrats strength is the diversity within our party. All KKKarl Rove has to do is whisper "racism" and "sexism" in the ears of pundits and then sit back and laugh his ass off while the democratic party self-destructs.
I hope we are smarter than to be subverted by identity politics.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 83:
This quote has nothing to DO with the electorate. It's the election SYSTEM. We the people no longer have a say. That's the sad truth. The millionaires are controlling our country now. Thank you 7 years of republican rule. Very very sad... If you come up with a way to save our country, please share it here.
repugs are dirty players. What a joke hucky is. HAHAHAHA, what big fat do nothings (repugs.) Of course they are civil to one another they both want chimpy's war to continue long after their death.
McCain is too old to run for president of his Bridge Club.
the repugs are civil, yeah right (their civility is overflowing in Iraq and Iran)
It's still hard for me to believe that this many repugs actually believe in chimpy's plan, the lies, the stealing, the warmongering, stripped of our rights, invasion, occupation...
Please God help repugs. Amen.
IR @ 93:
I don't care how noble McCain's intentions are, though I have a hard time believing that he's as noble as you allege considering how drastically he has shifted his stance on almost every single issue. He was once the 'maverick Republican,' and now he's just another neoconservative.
Furthermore, the United States' road to Hell will be paved with good intentions. Your list of problems the US is currently facing is quite apt, because nothing McCain will do will help. He is ignorant economically, and doesn't appreciate the problem that the United States is facing on that front. He wants to continue the silly war against "Islamofascism," remaining in the Middle East for as long as possible. I could go on, but you get the idea. I really do fear that the US will more or less be finished if a Republican gets into power once again.
Sometimes I don't get you people. Will somebody please explain to me why there is so much hatred for Hillary. I mean both she and Obama would make great candidates but you people act as though if she gets it its all over and we loose. There is still a long way to go before the election so anything can happen. But will one of you please explain this thinking without going off on one these wild conspiracy theories
Andrew @ 105:
I'm with you. An awful lot of "Democrats" are siding with Karl Rove in saying Hillary is unelectable. Since he has such a proven track record, we should go ahead and give up almost eight months before the election. Maybe we can go start a commune in Central America somewhere.
I watched CNN's take on the caucus and primary, and I must say that Donna Brazile was the only pundit worth listening to. It was remarkable how fair and honest her comments were, and she retained her candor in spite of the spin. She was probably the only voice of reason I consistently agreed with, in spite of Wolfie fidgeting around like he needed to pee - he distracted me. That lady has vast amounts of class. We need more like her.
...further, in my insignificant estimation, Donna Brazile didn't reduce herself to any sort of sexist comments or Hillary bashing. While the rest played up Obama's steaming #2, Brazile did not. Refreshing.
I completely agree with both Benen and Digby.
Andrew @ 105:
dont you get it ? her ass is owned by the corporations!the same people who own bush !!!!!does a brick wall have to fall on you , shes owned by big oil and every criminal piece of shit that runs the cheny bush gang!
Andrew @ 105:
Sure. Why do you think that Hillary receives more corporate special interest contributions than any other candidate on either side? Think about it. The republicans fear her the least and believe that they can beat her in the election. If she did win the election, she's the best chance that corporate America has to retain its enormous power and influence. Hillary being the nominee is a win-win for them either way. That's why.
Shawnmeat, I agree with you. McCain isn't just wearing camo, he's coated in Teflon. He will say and do whatever it takes, and he's got 77 years worth of double talk down pat. When he made his speech and thanked his Momma, all I could think was, "Oh you cunning shill. Pandering to Southerners about your love for your Momma. How very appropriate, FAKER." And the South will believe him about everything because he loves his Momma.
L.A. Confidential @ 8:
I'm parched myself. I guess juice will have to do.
Ali @ 102:
Let's NOT forget DIEBOLD!
"Those jobs aren't coming back my friend. You will need to go to college and learn entrepreneurship if you're going to be part of this bush global economy". McNut McCain? Bush on steroids times 2! For the life of me I cannot see how anyone could vote for this guy. After 7 years of bush hell, I thought for sure America would wise up. America is dumber than I thought.
liberdouch will be mccains vp, and like the man said mccain will win get knocked off then we become the first state of israel, hows president joe liberdouce sound to you?
shalome!
We'll all be voting for the lesser of evils. They're all crooks in someway. It's all about the money,then power.
wiseup - I can only hope that somewhere in between the crook-ing and liar-ing they can accomplish more than a few things that benefit this country instead of ruining us further.
Fritz and Tyree I don't need you two to be so snappy. You two just like everyone else seem to be so paranoid about the possibilite of Hillary being the nommanie. Granted I'm not supporting her but if she does in the end become the nommine I will at least swallow my pride and still vote for her at least for the sake of the democratic party, because quite frankly we can't afford to have another republican in the White House.
Andrew @ 120:
I don't mean to sound snappy. We're in this together together and have to look out for the future for not only us, but our children. This is not just another election - us against the republicans, but it's also an election about us against corporate America. Hand in hand, the two are absolutely destroying this country. In order to get our country back, the corporate elite must have their power and influence revoked and given back to us.
Amazing how the race seems to be shaping up into the only Republican/Democratic matchup in which the Dem could actually lose.
I hoently do understanding where your coming from Fritz. I do believe that we need take this country back from corporate America, and that this is no ordinary election. I guess were just probably so exhauseted because we've had so many debates, and at the rate these primaries are going who knows when the nomminess will be in place.
Andrew,
I agree (and I believe we all agree) that this country can't take another Republican in the White House. What doesn't seem to get through to the "I don't understand why everybody hates Hillary" crowd is that we believe she is a Republican - especially in the corporate shill sense.
Very well put, Fritz @ 121:
Hillary has taken more corprorate cash than any other candidate including Republicans. Who's side will she be on?
Fiver
I am in no way endorsing Hillary I'm just saying what if when its all said and done and were stuck with her as the nommine what do we do than. Do we swallow our pride and vote for her do we stay at home if someone tells me what do we do than without getting all hysterical that would be great,
ROM Spaceknight @ 4:
Ha! Yes, the "national s-election" has commenced.
If this abysmal situation isn't transparently obvious to every thinking person, I don't know if there's a cure.
We have a health-insurance system that has trashed healthcare, we're trillions in debt, government oversight is all but gone, we've killed hundreds of thousands of people--for oil, we've given military personnel the middle finger and showered contractors with glorious money, we've got a private military standing by to do the bidding of a wannabe-dictator, the media (because of Bill Clinton) is now a monopoly, NAFTA (because of Bill Clinton) is killing us, our economy is teetering on the brink of disaster...
...and...
THESE two are the best this country has to offer?
Yeah right. We're so happy with radical, fundamental conservatism, that we can't live without it--ever.
It's a good life...if you're a corporation.
ROM Spaceknight @ 10:
It takes really very little to turn rothschilds/"bilderbergs" into scared, whiny fu*ks. Look what guild of writers did to the American entertainment industry. It's killing it and the killing will stop only when or only if the working writers decide to stop it. Look how hedge funds easily fall. Sure, our government will bail out banks rather than the people with sub-prime mortgages, but it will do it by using your tax dollars, meaning, more money will be printed, the national debt will grow and you will pay more for consumer goods because the price will be inflated. The government will f**k you even harder this way, thus Rothschilds/"bilderbers" can be turned into scared, whiny fu*ks (imagine CNBC's Mr. Kramer during his infamous mad tirades, that's how the "elites" may feel or feel already) because liquidity in their beloved system sooner rather than later becomes a deadly issue, solvency becomes ours and the governments. The more the politicians that technically work for us appear to be helping the scare and whiny f**ks, the more pissed we all become, and all the more powerful consequently.
mojopo @ 107:
That's it! What a right on comparison!
I hope all the Dems who voted for Hillary and Obama get exactly what they deserve. When McCain and Huckaby (VP), as McCain will need him on the ticket, win the next election, which they surely will, you will all cry foul, and complain about the voting system irregularities. But this time you did it to yourselves. You fell for the trap. You all behaved like sheep, and did exactly what the MSM told you to do. You Voted for Hillary and Obama, so now you get exactly what you desrve. You will be getting 4 more years of dreaded Republican Rule, and most likely the end of the United States.
Andrew @ 105:
I don't get you people either. Where is the Hillary bashing on this site? What are you, some form letter blog app that download this nonsense whenever the name Hillary apprears? Cause frankly y'all are over doing it.
Don't be a repug and generalize all those who question Hillary.
Tyree at 110-What does it take to get through to these Democrats. HILLARY is A CORPORATE REPUBLICAN!!! (masquerading as a Democrat). What do you not understand about that? If she wins, its a win for Republican corporate America. If McCain wins, its a win for Republican Corporate America. Either way, corporate American has hedged their bets. It's a win/win for the Republicans. Either Way!!! Get it now!!!
Sany @ 129:
Why is that? Are you saying igorant white people won't vote for anyone but warmongering old, white, dingy men?
Are you implying the only vote that matters is the white vote?
Oh yeah, over 70% of the US want a change.
You are so sad with your negativity.
Shawnmeat @ 97. Unfortunately your two candidates Hillary and Obam will NEVER EVER be able to win a general election. I have been a lifelong Democrat my whole life and will stay home if either of them get the nomination. I will NO LONGER do what the Democratic Party says and hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. So, say what you may, and have your dream now of a Hillary or Obama nominee, but neither of them will win in November. And, you will be crying, and I will be also, that you were not smart enough to see that the Republicans had this planned a long time ago. Too bad you fell for their trick. Oh Well.
#132- Yea that is what I am saying. Deal with it!
Now we know why the Elections will not be cancelled. Bush said all along he predicted the race in '08 would be between Hillary and McCain, with McCain eventually going on to win. Well, I guess the Fix has been in all along.
Although I believe Obama or Edwards will be the right choice for America, I always believed somehow Hillary Clinton will win. Why? It's simple really. All you have to do is think like the corporations / Republicans. And just imagine that the conspiracy is true - that there are powers controlling your country.
Out of the three Democratic candidates, who would benefit them most? Obama is new to the process and cannot be trusted. He may even win against the Republican nominee and turn his back on them once he is the President. John Edwards will be their worst nightmare. But if it were Hillary, they have something to gain:
1. The corporations will certianly be happy, she can be trusted when she is the President.
2. There is a chance that her presence will re-energize the Republican base, and help put the Republican nominee in the White House.
3. It will give the Republican pundits/hacks plenty of Clinton materials to live off, to continue doing their bidding and help promote the Corporate / Republican cause.
Whether if it is MSM propaganda, or the voting machines, she will win I'm starting to get convinced. My hope for your country was up after Iowa, but I guess my premonition was correct. Looking at your primary from abroad, I still cannot believe after 8 years of dirty politics, you guys want more of it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/arti...
No matter who you are going to vote for this is important now!
Speak Out Now To Protect the Integrity Of Our Democracy!
http://usalone.com/laesch/pnum779.php
kpeter @ 137:
I agree 1000%!!!! I cannot fathom why anyone who calls himself a Democrat, much less a liberal or progressive, would EVER support Hillary Clinton for the party nomination. She'll never have the full support of the left wing of the Democratic party, which would be essential to guarantee the massive turnouts that won the Dems congress in 2006.
And, even if her policies and political ideologies were compatible with all Democrats, and she could eventually shore up support of the active progressive wing of the Democratic party, she's an extremely polarizing figure in the general election. Our only hope to elect a Democratic president is to make sure, just like in 2006, that republicans stay home in election day. Hillary Clinton will GUARANTEE a much larger republican turnout than any other candidate. With the loss of the grass roots and the gain in political momentum for the Republican candidate, I believe Hillary is simply NOT ELECTABLE.
Ha, ha ha. good grief.
The left are just as bad as playing on anything they can to brand someone racist.. Ron Paul anyone?
Hillary isnt a racist, but it's amusing watching the left defend her and show their disgust over these tactics, whilst using the exact same tactics to slander Paul because they hate the idea of a republican who isnt a warmonger.
CoIntelPro @ 114:
and let's not forget hacking democracy, the HBO documentary far too few of us seem to have taken the time to watch.
Sany @ 134:
Then you're a complete and utter idiot. You, tyree, and the others like you on this site sound just like the people who said in 2000 that Gore and Bush were practically indistinguishable. Where did that get us? Those same people are now calling for Bush's impeachment and praising Gore as a saint.
You sound like part of the same crowd that thinks if it wasn't for rigged voting machines and conspiracy-based biased media, everyone in the country would be progressives and vote Green, and having a horrible Republican elected will shock people into being more like us. The fact is that that's complete bull, most of the people in this country are relatively conservative, and there's no way that someone who genuinely follows all our beliefs would get elected for at least the next 10 years no matter what. You may be sick of voting for the lesser of two evils, but I'm sick of people like that being the difference between a relatively decent administration and the total catastrophe that we end up with.
Don't forget that there's a good chance that three liberal Supreme Court justices will retire in the next 8 years. Whoever becomes president will have an influence a long way down the line.
As for Hillary's 48% disapproval rating, don't forget that she had similar numbers in New York when she first ran for Senate, and ended up winning overwhelmingly.
Shawnmeat @ 62:
you may want to hold off on thumping your chest until your candidate is actually in office, shawnmeat.
as i told you in another thread, the right will pull out all the stops this fall -the norman hsu scandal, the huma abedin rumors, hillary suppressing the release of presidential records, more allegations of bill's infidelity... and remember, in the nineties, the internet wasn't what it is now. expect a lot of new allegations about whitewater, vince foster, mena, arkansas, etc., etc.
and if none of that works, republican-owned diebold still controls the vote.
i've already made up my mind -i'm not defending hillary clinton. i decided i wanted nothing to do with her when she authorized iraq, which killed my friend in the illinois national guard (which never should have been sent overseas), and hillary's rupert murdock fundraiser, along with her insane support for the kyl-lieberman cemented it.
apparently you are supporting clinton, shawnmeat. be ready for the maelstrom.
and, again, you may want to hold off on thumping your chest until your candidate is actually in.
Shawnmeat @ 97:
Ya but people have this deluded fantasy that Bill is running again for some reason. Now what could that reason be?
Midnight Rambler @ 142:
and im sick of dumbass dreamers who think electing people who are corporationists like clinton and obama will bring us anything but more bush and cheny policys!!!!!!!!!so stick your optimisem where the sun dont shine!!!!!!!diebolds going to decide just like it did last time so enjoy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andrew @ 120:
you dont need to worry if clintons elected bush will still be in office!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe the point of all this is that We the People are never going to change this nation with a presidential election. And we are not going to change the quality of those running for president by consistently lowering our standards to the lesser of two evils.
David Sirota wrote an interesting column recently about how Oregon and Wisconsin have gone ahead and crafted insurance policies for their respective states. The point is not how great Oregon and Wisconsin are but how they are going about making the changes that need to be made.
Our local governments, even up to the level of state legislatures, are where real change can be made. Think about it this way. If you're unhappy with how your state rep is behaving, you can write a letter and tell him/her that you'll be holding a big potluck next Saturday to talk with your friends about how he/she is being a jackass. Chances are, he's going to listen...especially if you have a lot of friends. But if you write your Congressman, you'll get a form letter and find yourself put on the mailing list, begged for donations, but not actually listened to. Unless, of course, you pony up for $1000/plate dinners to help out the never ending campaign.
As it stands, we don't pay attention to local politics, and this allows the national parties to pretty well control them. The elected get into the habit of pandering to their party rather than responding to the voters, because the Party is their way to work up the ladder.
The idea has many examples. California's attempt to write tougher emissions standards is a good one. Any national health care scheme is going to be unwieldy and possibly ruined by the footdragging bureaucracy that powers D.C., but it is possible to get healthcare moving forward at the state level. Marijuana decriminalization...several states have seen the benefit and worked to make it happen. The driving force that stops all of these local initiatives is the federal government.
Now, this is not leading to a "vote for Ron Paul" ending. I'm saying that if we want to bring our corporate government to heel, we are not going to do it by playing the game by the rules that the corporate government writes.
It is about critical mass, as the Bill Moyers clip posted here yesterday pointed out so vividly. LBJ couldn't have done what he did without the critical mass of the public uprising led by MLK. We are not going to see a leader like MLK in modern America; i wish that we would, but we won't. Our best...really our only...hope is to take back the local levels of government.
If a critical mass of state legislatures had voted to impeach Bush/Cheney, Congress would not have been able to take it off the table. If a critical mass of state legislatures would vote for tougher emissions, the EPA wouldn't be able to stymie California. And the list goes on.
It is obvious that people around here (and elsewhere) are fed up, discouraged, cynical, and ready to give up that shred of hope that we all hang on to. We love to hear the talk about change, but we are worried that our hopes will be dashed yet again.
Because elections are expensive, lots of state and local elections happen concurrently with presidential elections. Instead of spending our time thinking about Clinton, McCain, Obama and the rest...which is pointless because they don't think about us...let's all start thinking about politics closer to home. Get involved there, hell run for office. Educate yourself about local candidates like we all educate ourselves about national candidates and then go to it.
No, its not as glamorous, but realistically, it is more important. And it is where we can win, where the 50 people you convince to vote will really make a difference. Where you can look the candidate in the eyes and ask them questions.
Change will never trickle down; change rises from the bottom up. Rise up, empower yourself politically, and take this country back for the people it belongs to.
And yes, i'm talking to myself as well. Local politics is my New Year's resolution...
Dear John Edwards,
Please Please PLEASE don't give up!
jackpine savage @ 147:
Well said! Federal elections are smoke and mirrors, hit or miss political entities. These supposed "top running" candidates are the ones the rich and MSM have chosen as SAFE to protect their interests regardless what they say in speeches to the masses.
Login or Register to post comments.