i'm sooooo sick of CNN political coverage i could puke.

I'm watching "Parrots in the Land of Oz" a Nature program on PBS. For the second time this week.

Parrots are very intelligent live a long time, are feisty, and like the Dem candidates, can be taught to repeat different sound bites by prompt.

Polly want a cookie? Hillary, Barack?

I'd take any bird to either of these two birds as President. It's disheartening what the MSM and DLC have dumped on us all.

Nice to see the Dems playing nice.......for now at least.

like obama said in south carolina:

abc news: clinton remained silent as wal-mart fought unions

Ryan from Portland @ 1:

i'm sooooo sick of CNN political coverage i could puke.

Agreed....tenfold....how I wish Keith was one of the questioners in this debate (I'll be watching his post-debate show).

neamhni @ 6:

Hillary is starting off fake, ad nauseum.
I'm in Portland, OR, so I'll watch Olbermann instead (Special Comment!).

it's a bit early to dismiss either just yet....

So far Hillary seems more at ease and focused

Nothing like primary season to make me glad I don't subscribe to full cable.

When i can't afford mandated health care, because i don't have the money, the best thing to do is fine me and garnish my wages to punish me for being poor.

Excellent idea.

She says she'll make it affordable to everyone. I don't even want to know what her rich-ass concept of "affordable" is.

Obama needs to introduce himself to the California voters who arent policy wonks like we are. So far he inot as conversational as Clinton in my opinion. And I say this as someone who desperately wants Obama to win here in CA. Crank up the charm, Barack!

I think we're seeing more policy talk than ever before (in this primary) which is nice (granted we're like fifteen minutes in). I'm glad to see Obama does, in fact, have some plans. Though I still like Clinton's better so far.

Sorry Im late....... Was watchin Keith O

He gave a heads up to Crooks and Liars

told his people to go to crooks and Liars while u watch the debate.

what a guy

purple finger @ 20:

Some democratic process. Another debate on cable television. What an elitist sham this whole thing is. Still I plan on making Diebold steal my vote.

Isn't it being streamed live on cnn.com?

OK, Barack is hitting his stride. Disses McCain. Loving it

Man I'm loving this debate so far.

About time they unite to bash some repubs.

Begin forwarded message @ 28:

Obama/Edward '08

Clinton/Omaba

Better choice

Hillary probably defines affordable the same as you.
If all you can afford is $1 then that is what you pay.

Do you prefer the 15 million in Obama's plan stay un-insured and kill the healthcare system as they are now with every emergency room visit?

lopaloo102 @ 11:

neamhni @ 6:

Hillary is starting off fake, ad nauseum.
I'm in Portland, OR, so I'll watch Olbermann instead (Special Comment!).

it's a bit early to dismiss either just yet....

Agreed. It's beyond early to bash either of our candidates. With the two of them on, they're just talking about genuine policy differences. So far so good.

mudshark @ 342:

nonbeliever @ 336:

tyree @ 256:

nonbeliever @ 212:
two stolen elections !count them 2!!!!!!!!

Yes, so let's STOP them before they get to 3. Remember what I said about Democratic voter turnout in the primaries. I think we've got a Democratic tsunami building even if the South doesn't vote for these 2.

you were the one who brought up New Hampshire voting irregularities...right?.....so whats happening now?

You have me confused with another poster. I don't think I posted much in any of the NH related threads. But, my opinion on irregularities is that there were likely more on the repug side shutting out Ron Paul than any on the Democratic side.

What I have said before is that I don't think either of these 2 can carry the South, but if we keep Kerry's states and pick up other states like Ohio, Colorado and New Mexico we can take this. Remember, a close election can be stolen but not a landslide. Democratic tsunami in '08. We can win this.

xoites defends Constitution @ 354:

Ron @ 350:

xoites defends Constitution @ 341:

If you ask me the landslide ticket would be Obama/Clinton. The other way around would be a close one.

Actually, I think the Obama/Edwards would be better. We need at least 16 years just to make a dent in the damage that Bush has done.

I am looking at it strictly from a marketing standpoint.

what happened xoites the did you get born again? the other night you said you gave up and to hell with it all!!!!!!

Here is the correct link...sorry. Fired Up and Ready To Go Joe.

nonbeliever @ 361:

mudshark @ 342:

nonbeliever @ 336:

tyree @ 256:
Yes, so let's STOP them before they get to 3. Remember what I said about Democratic voter turnout in the primaries. I think we've got a Democratic tsunami building even if the South doesn't vote for these 2.

you were the one who brought up New Hampshire voting irregularities...right?.....so whats happening now?

You have me confused with another poster. I don't think I posted much in any of the NH related threads. But, my opinion on irregularities is that there were likely more on the repug side shutting out Ron Paul than any on the Democratic side.

What I have said before is that I don't think either of these 2 can carry the South, but if we keep Kerry's states and pick up other states like Ohio, Colorado and New Mexico we can take this. Remember, a close election can be stolen but not a landslide. Democratic tsunami in '08. We can win this.

yep.....you got that right.......and for the voting irregularities in NH.....somebody posted a link verifying some weird stuff up there.

xoites defends Constitution @ 364:

Sometimes i think Abbott and Costello could win as Democrats this year, but i prefer smarter people with even better senses of humor and i prefer to not take any chances.

I personally thought an unbeatable ticket would've been Gore/Edwards but they're not in it. I'll be happy if either of our current 2 candidates make it in.

ROM Spaceknight @ 370:

mudshark @ 362:

Obama has huge support in N Calif...HRC was here last Friday....she has the Hispanic vote locked up,and a lot of other folks as well.....I don't know about So Cal....

obama has huge support amongst everyone who's been paying attention the last 8 years.

hillary's support only stems from her reproductive organs, unique in this year's field of candidates, and from old curmudgeons longing for the 90's.

barack obama = america's 1st 21st century candidate.

That was offensive and clueless all at the same time.
I see the rabid Obama supporters got their internet connections running again.

Thanks for helping secure many of our votes for Hillary Clinton.

Who won Thursday's Democratic debate?
Hillary Clinton 35% 5137
Barack Obama 50% 7277
Tie 14% 2066

http://www.cnn.com/

It would be cool if C&L could put up a poll to gage their readers opinions on who won the debate. I'd be interested in that.

My father is hard-line Giuliani conservative - a real political Neantherdal. I've got some very strange political views that have come from that background over time.

We both knew by at least June 2002 that Bush was taking us to war with Iraq. It started with the Axis of Evil SOTU and started ramping up in April and May, being mentioned in the June speech outlining a solution to the Palestine conflict.

I asked him in August what was taking so long. He said that Bush was trying to be nice and get others on our side - the Security Council, the Democrats, etc.

For any Democrat voting on the AUMF to claim that they didn't think Bush would take us to Iraq with that vote is disingenuous at best.

We ALL knew what was going down by the time that vote was cast.

ROM Spaceknight @ 370:

mudshark @ 362:

Obama has huge support in N Calif...HRC was here last Friday....she has the Hispanic vote locked up,and a lot of other folks as well.....I don't know about So Cal....

obama has huge support amongst everyone who's been paying attention the last 8 years.

hillary's support only stems from her reproductive organs, unique in this year's field of candidates, and from old curmudgeons longing for the 90's.

barack obama = america's 1st 21st century candidate.

Sorry, the old curmudgeons are longing for the fifties and sixties (republicans and democrats respectively.)

I'm a policy wonk so I'm glad tonight's debate stuck mostly on policies and there were no personal attacks. Wolf was rightfully booed for trying to create conflict on a question that was already answered.

JTM @ 380:

The ticket will not include both of them, in either order. I'll give any of you three-to-one. I take PayPal.

Yes.

I am sure you do.

xoites defends Constitution @ 366:

tyree @ 363:

xoites defends Constitution @ 354:

Ron @ 350:

I am looking at it strictly from a marketing standpoint.

what happened xoites the did you get born again? the other night you said you gave up and to hell with it all!!!!!!

I am trying to adjust to the emotional turmoil that our deeply flawed political process creates inside me. We have a lot of work to do to get to where we need to be. In the meantime i don't want to cut my nose off to spite my face.

so ,then your not bothered at all by the fact that both clinton and obama are going to keep the war going and troops in iraq and afganistan untill they leave office after thier 8 yr term is over?

That remains to be seen, Obama does not seem to be going in that direction (of course it bothers me if true.)

McCain only wants 100 more years.

tyree @ 385:

xoites defends Constitution @ 366:

tyree @ 363:

xoites defends Constitution @ 354:
what happened xoites the did you get born again? the other night you said you gave up and to hell with it all!!!!!!

I am trying to adjust to the emotional turmoil that our deeply flawed political process creates inside me. We have a lot of work to do to get to where we need to be. In the meantime i don't want to cut my nose off to spite my face.

so ,then your not bothered at all by the fact that both clinton and obama are going to keep the war going and troops in iraq and afganistan untill they leave office after thier 8 yr term is over?

So tyree, who do you suggest. McCain who thinks it's okay if we are there for another 100 years.

I thought Hillary's answers on illegal immigration were well thought out and specific whereas Obama's seemed vague to the point that it seemed he doesn't have a plan to deal with illegal immigration. I felt the same about the healthcare discussion. I think Ariana described the difference between the candidates very well when she described Hillary as wonkish and hard-working compared to Obama's broad statements about change. I for one think this country is in a real mess and that we need someone who is wonkish and obsessed with details about how to get this country on track. Obama can preserve his lofty ideals for the 2016 election.

xoites defends Constitution @ 390:

nonbeliever @ 388:

Tommy Gunn @ 377:

My father is hard-line Giuliani conservative - a real political Neantherdal. I've got some very strange political views that have come from that background over time.

We both knew by at least June 2002 that Bush was taking us to war with Iraq. It started with the Axis of Evil SOTU and started ramping up in April and May, being mentioned in the June speech outlining a solution to the Palestine conflict.

I asked him in August what was taking so long. He said that Bush was trying to be nice and get others on our side - the Security Council, the Democrats, etc.

For any Democrat voting on the AUMF to claim that they didn't think Bush would take us to Iraq with that vote is disingenuous at best.

We ALL knew what was going down by the time that vote was cast.

I'm curious what you mean by Giuliani conservative. He's a social liberal, but governed like a bully while mayor. Is it Giuliani's foreign policy that your father agrees with?

Giuliani is a social liberal the way Charles Manson loves life.

Manson loves his life. He gets 3 squares a day and a roof over his head. Better than the 200,000 vets that are on the streets and in shelters.

Yes, Manson loves his life in much the same way Giuliani loves being liberal socially.

Begin forwarded message @ 28:

Obama/Edward '08

agree wholeheartedly, although i'm pretty sure johnny reid's surname's plural...

Im voting for either of these 2 in November

I prefer Clinton/Obama

but Obama/Clinton

wouldnt hurt my feelings either

Roger from Ohio @ 31:

Begin forwarded message @ 28:

Obama/Edward '08

Clinton/Omaba

Better choice

Never/Happen. '08

ConcernedCanuck @ 38:

justabill @ 36:

Wasn't that George (Jason Alexander) they just showed?

Ya, right next to Jerry, and later they will show Michael Moore do a striptease, and Britney will perform "Watch Out I'm Nuts"...her latest song

Allright! They needed to do something to keep me awake through this thing.

Roger from Ohio @ 31:

Begin forwarded message @ 28:

Obama/Edward '08

Clinton/Omaba

Better choice

it'll never happen. too much dirt on the clintons. more dirt than "pig pen" from "peanuts".

obama/edwards '08.

no more G-ddamn clintons, no more G-ddamn bushes. 28 years under the same two dynasties? yeah, right, like a monarchy... a schizophrenic monarchy, at that.

no thanks, i think i'll pass.

Obama is doing well tonight.

One interesting thing brought up in a comment on Kos: Hillary spent the night attacking George Bush, whereas Barack spent the night attacking McCain and Romney.

More fuel to the Obama supporters "looking towards the future, not the past".

xoites defends Constitution @ 390:

nonbeliever @ 388:

Tommy Gunn @ 377:

My father is hard-line Giuliani conservative - a real political Neantherdal. I've got some very strange political views that have come from that background over time.

We both knew by at least June 2002 that Bush was taking us to war with Iraq. It started with the Axis of Evil SOTU and started ramping up in April and May, being mentioned in the June speech outlining a solution to the Palestine conflict.

I asked him in August what was taking so long. He said that Bush was trying to be nice and get others on our side - the Security Council, the Democrats, etc.

For any Democrat voting on the AUMF to claim that they didn't think Bush would take us to Iraq with that vote is disingenuous at best.

We ALL knew what was going down by the time that vote was cast.

I'm curious what you mean by Giuliani conservative. He's a social liberal, but governed like a bully while mayor. Is it Giuliani's foreign policy that your father agrees with?

Giuliani is a social liberal the way Charles Manson loves life.

Well, he does support a woman's right to choose and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage so I would call him a social liberal and thus out of the mainstream in his party.

John Amato looks like what's his name. The guy that played in the movie "Stargate." I can't think of his name right now but, he's the one that is with Goldie Hawn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius#Early_political_career
Obama/Sebelius '08!
The perfect ticket.

...with Richardson Secretary of State and Edwards Attorney General of course.

tyree @ 396:

Ron @ 389:

tyree @ 385:

xoites defends Constitution @ 366:
so ,then your not bothered at all by the fact that both clinton and obama are going to keep the war going and troops in iraq and afganistan untill they leave office after thier 8 yr term is over?

So tyree, who do you suggest. McCain who thinks it's okay if we are there for another 100 years.

now let me say i dont know how long obama has decided to stay in iraq but it doesnt sound like anytime to soon! but i did hear hillary say on cnn that she would withdraw some troops from iraq , now im quoteing her! and leave troops to gaurd the embassy , and troops to opperate and guard thoes twelve military bases , and keep troops in iraq to train the iraqys and have a quick reaction force to quell any attacks by alkida , now how many troops do you suppose she can bring home and do all that??? and do you believe that none of thoes troops are going to be killed by iraqys who want our oil thieveing asses out of iraq ? as far as mcdrool goes he or you will not be alive in a hundread yrs!

You didn't answer the question.

Ron @ 405:

tyree @ 396:

Ron @ 389:

tyree @ 385:
So tyree, who do you suggest. McCain who thinks it's okay if we are there for another 100 years.

now let me say i dont know how long obama has decided to stay in iraq but it doesnt sound like anytime to soon! but i did hear hillary say on cnn that she would withdraw some troops from iraq , now im quoteing her! and leave troops to gaurd the embassy , and troops to opperate and guard thoes twelve military bases , and keep troops in iraq to train the iraqys and have a quick reaction force to quell any attacks by alkida , now how many troops do you suppose she can bring home and do all that??? and do you believe that none of thoes troops are going to be killed by iraqys who want our oil thieveing asses out of iraq ? as far as mcdrool goes he or you will not be alive in a hundread yrs!

You didn't answer the question.

i answerd it you just werent listening!

xoites defends Constitution @ 392:

I knew we were going into Iraq in September, 2001. Bush just as much as said so.

I knew we were going into Iraq in Nov 00.....I asked a friend of mine who he voted for,and he said Boosh.I said"You do know we will be going into Iraq don't you"..he scoffed...lets see?His son should be coming of age soon.Betcha he feels differently now.

xoites defends Constitution @ 408:

tyree @ 406:

xoites defends Constitution @ 398:

Tyree, if McCain wins none of us may be alive in ten.

ive said my piece , i guess theres no such thing as a man with princples anymore , guess i missjudged you!

Tyree, GEEZE! Don't hurt me, man.

Look, we are stuck with a very few choices at this point. I don't like them any more than you do. If you have a better idea, please tell me.

guess thier is no answers but i wont settle for more more war by useing my vote to keep it going , thiers no way back from iraq or afganistan with any honor!

Then let's get us some health care, Tyree.

Ron @ 410:

tyree @ 407:

Ron @ 405:

tyree @ 396:
You didn't answer the question.

i answerd it you just werent listening!

Who do you you suggest, was the question.

i have no preference ,take you pick from one of two poisons!

tyree @ 415:

Ron @ 410:

tyree @ 407:

Ron @ 405:
i answerd it you just werent listening!

Who do you you suggest, was the question.

i have no preference ,take you pick from one of two poisons!

We will just have to work our way toward more progressive candidates as we go.

tyree @ 415:

Ron @ 410:

tyree @ 407:

Ron @ 405:
i answerd it you just werent listening!

Who do you you suggest, was the question.

i have no preference ,take you pick from one of two poisons!

Yeah, we do have to make choices.

xoites defends Constitution @ 413:

Then let's get us some health care, Tyree.

from what ive seen of boths heath care ,if you get sick and the insurance companys decide you dont need a certain care or opperation or medicine they can decline to help you! well haveing been there and done that with that kind of health care you can have it, your scared to even go to the hospital , one screw up and your intire checking accounts wipped out! just wich one mentioned universal health care , cause i never heard either one say it?

Telecom immunity is 51 votes away from being gone.

Where will Clinton and Obama be on Monday when they are needed?

xoites defends Constitution @ 417:

tyree @ 415:

Ron @ 410:

tyree @ 407:
Who do you you suggest, was the question.

i have no preference ,take you pick from one of two poisons!

We will just have to work our way toward more progressive candidates as we go.

yep...we have to start somewhere.But the here and now..is what's important.We have to unify and win the WH,and the Senate and The House....I think we're headed in the Left direction.

tr @ 426:

xoites defends Constitution @ 392:

I knew we were going into Iraq in September, 2001. Bush just as much as said so.

maybe that was what the anthrax attacks were about.

No, it was before the Anthrax attacks that he let it slip. Well, he did not let it slip. He was screaming about al qeda ties to Iraq right away.

tyree @ 428:

xoites defends Constitution @ 424:

tyree @ 421:

xoites defends Constitution @ 413:
from what ive seen of boths heath care ,if you get sick and the insurance companys decide you dont need a certain care or opperation or medicine they can decline to help you! well haveing been there and done that with that kind of health care you can have it, your scared to even go to the hospital , one screw up and your intire checking accounts wipped out! just wich one mentioned universal health care , cause i never heard either one say it?

They both talked about it tonight. I heard Hillary say she wants noone excluded for any reason.

universal health care? ill believe it when they produce it ! it still doesnt get us out of iraq, and afganistan ,

No, and it does not end homelessness or rebuild our manufacturing base either. It just beats the hell out of McCain and his desire to bomb Iran.

xoites defends Constitution @ 429:

tyree @ 428:

xoites defends Constitution @ 424:

tyree @ 421:

They both talked about it tonight. I heard Hillary say she wants noone excluded for any reason.

universal health care? ill believe it when they produce it ! it still doesnt get us out of iraq, and afganistan ,

No, and it does not end homelessness or rebuild our manufacturing base either. It just beats the hell out of McCain and his desire to bomb Iran.

well who ever bombs iran it wont be with my vote , i dont vote for warmongers , and i wont watch dead troopers or iraqy children on tv and feel i had a part in thier deaths!

why do they say "a path to citizenship"...how about a path to legal residency..And then citizenship.Seems to me that they're putting the cart in front of the horse.

HURLEY FOR PRESIDENT!!!!...."DUDE"

She's faltering. Obama did a better job with the immigration question.

Fanon @ 46:

I mean mandatory insurance which is what Hillary proposes. Plus, EMR (Electronic Medical Record) is a great idea, but financially out of reach of a lot of small medical practices (like mine).

Ya, cuz people that can't afford healthcare should be forced to have some kind of insurance cuz.......they can't afford healthcare!!! Bullshit. If Canada can afford healthcare so can the US. This is a Corporate copout.

Fanon @ 52:

mudshark @ 49:

why do they say "a path to citizenship"...how about a path to legal residency..And then citizenship.Seems to me that they're putting the cart in front of the horse.

Maybe just a matter of semantics?

naw.....it's about the votes.....and future voters.

too much dirt on the clintons

16 years of privately- and publicly-funded muckraking found absolutely nothing. If Bill hadn't tried to stonewall on Monica, they wouldn't have had that much, and the American people supported him on that.

I have major issues with the Clintons' ties to the DLC establishment, and I agree with you on the dynasties problem, but there is no dirt worth discussing.

So far Hillary has shouted out to California and New York. Heh.

I don't like the "learn English" requirement they both seem to have, though it would probably be extremely leniant.

Hillary senses Obama won the immigration question and ratchets it up with a Jesus/Good Samaritan reference. Dang..

Meander @ 59:

too much dirt on the clintons

16 years of privately- and publicly-funded muckraking found absolutely nothing. If Bill hadn't tried to stonewall on Monica, they wouldn't have had that much, and the American people supported him on that.

I have major issues with the Clintons' ties to the DLC establishment, and I agree with you on the dynasties problem, but there is no dirt worth discussing.

That doesn't mean that the swiftboaters won't dig it up and throw it out there again. There are still a large percentage that don't follow the facts. I say facts because now days we can't call it news.

This debate is exhausting. These candidates are totally identical and it hurts my head to hear them try and parse the fake differences between them.

Except for one thing: Barack isn't married to a war criminal.

Herself @ 61:

So far Hillary has shouted out to California and New York. Heh.

I don't like the "learn English" requirement they both seem to have, though it would probably be extremely leniant.

don't take this wrong....but english is spoken in almost every country on the planet...of course..some more than others.
I think to function in this country...one needs to speak english.If for no other reason.....the opportunities..

Who will be the next candidate to be voted off Fantasy Island? Will it be Hillary, Barach? I suspect both. The General Public will never go for their tax increase statement. Both of them walked knee deep into that one. What a trap by Blitzer. I fear both of these candidates will never make it in the General Election. Oh Boy, the Dems blew the easiest chance to win an election by putting Hillary and Obama as candidates. This is going to go down in history as the biggest blunder ever created by the Democratic Party and their voters that went along with it!

Anybody notice how when HRC talked about taking a lot of time to think about that Iraq vote and coming to a "reasoned decision", BHO turned towards her and kind of perked up at the shoulders?

He could have nailed her; he should have nailed her. She has - on more than one occasion - explained that vote by claiming that she didn't have the time to think it through. She was lying through her teeth, he knew it...and he let it slide.

A Clinton won't clean up after a Bush, the first one carried most of the first Bush's policies through. The second refused to run against a Bush. And the two families seem to be pretty buddy buddy of late, so i'm not sure that "clean up" after is the right phrase. Humanize the empire building, maybe shift the focus from guns to globalization, but hardly clean up.

Still, he's not a very good debater, and in my opinion she won pretty handily. But it looks like the polls disagree with me. I've rarely been so happy to be wrong.

how odd, they had room for 3 people when Edwards was still in the race, and Mike Gravel is still a democratic nominee but everyone ignores him. Gee, I wonder why.

I for one have learned not to pay attention to the media at all in deciding a candidate, because they will pick the worst one for me.

Wow. Just what I wanted to see and hear: 2 Corporatist/stealth Republican lackies arguing and posturing, pretending that they give a shit about the American People.