Democratic Debate Open Thread
By bluegal Wednesday Jan 30, 2008 7:00pm
Oops, wrong graphic. Anyhow, Senators Clinton and Obama go head to head in Los Angeles at 8 Eastern/5 Pacific. CNN will broadcast the event; our own John Amato is in the house and is scheduled to appear on the post-debate edition of Countdown on MSNBC.
Debate open thread below unless you're watching something else.
Update: As Wolf was getting ready for the show he tried his Oscar presentation skills. Will he look to see if he got a Star on Hollywood Blvd? hehe
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i'm sooooo sick of CNN political coverage i could puke.
Wolf!
I'm watching "Parrots in the Land of Oz" a Nature program on PBS. For the second time this week.
Parrots are very intelligent live a long time, are feisty, and like the Dem candidates, can be taught to repeat different sound bites by prompt.
Polly want a cookie? Hillary, Barack?
I'd take any bird to either of these two birds as President. It's disheartening what the MSM and DLC have dumped on us all.
I'm totally watching Lost! Its on pause while we get our rugrat ready for bed. Ready for a break from the drama, name calling, tension, and frustration of waiting for answers.
Gee.... guess I should switch to something else!
Nice to see the Dems playing nice.......for now at least.
Hillary is starting off fake, ad nauseum.
I'm in Portland, OR, so I'll watch Olbermann instead (Special Comment!).
like obama said in south carolina:
abc news: clinton remained silent as wal-mart fought unions
First time ever: Our next president could be a black man or the wife of a former president. What progress!
Just don't talk about the issues, ever!
Ryan from Portland @ 1:
Agreed....tenfold....how I wish Keith was one of the questioners in this debate (I'll be watching his post-debate show).
Breaking: Rove to join fox news for commentary on super tuesday.
Also, a book is coming out on the 5th detailing how the head of the 911 commission contacted Rove and the white house several times during the investigation, even though he said he wouldn't.
Bad stuff.
neamhni @ 6:
it's a bit early to dismiss either just yet....
curtilingus @ 10:
As in feeding them info? Ugh.....
Please oh please.....dems support the candidate so that we can escape the republicans....
So far Hillary seems more at ease and focused
Open Thread,
Don't wish for Hillary or Obama.
Wish for a better government.
Nothing like primary season to make me glad I don't subscribe to full cable.
Paul @ 13:
Agree, but she also seems too rehearsed....personally, I like people who can think before their answers rather than parroting.
Barack is not a strong debater, but he can keep your attention when giving an answer.
When i can't afford mandated health care, because i don't have the money, the best thing to do is fine me and garnish my wages to punish me for being poor.
Excellent idea.
She says she'll make it affordable to everyone. I don't even want to know what her rich-ass concept of "affordable" is.
LOL @ The graphic. Honestly I think I'm a little more excited about that than the debate. (Just a little)
Obama needs to introduce himself to the California voters who arent policy wonks like we are. So far he inot as conversational as Clinton in my opinion. And I say this as someone who desperately wants Obama to win here in CA. Crank up the charm, Barack!
Some democratic process. Another debate on cable television. What an elitist sham this whole thing is. Still I plan on making Diebold steal my vote.
I think we're seeing more policy talk than ever before (in this primary) which is nice (granted we're like fifteen minutes in). I'm glad to see Obama does, in fact, have some plans. Though I still like Clinton's better so far.
Health Insurance and Health Care aren't the same thing!
Sorry Im late....... Was watchin Keith O
He gave a heads up to Crooks and Liars
told his people to go to crooks and Liars while u watch the debate.
what a guy
Why the American Idol graphic? This is an important and historical event in our political history and we can't break away from reality show graphics for the thread? Come on. Let's take this seriously.
purple finger @ 20:
Isn't it being streamed live on cnn.com?
bbyee @ 16:
Did u ever notice that Barack doesnt answer questions after his speeches??
that tells me that he doesnt really know what is going on unless it is written down
OK, Barack is hitting his stride. Disses McCain. Loving it
Obama/Edward '08
Man I'm loving this debate so far.
About time they unite to bash some repubs.
Begin forwarded message @ 28:
I could do that.
Begin forwarded message @ 28:
Clinton/Omaba
Better choice
I do like that Obama acknowledges that all repubs are not constantly evil (the current batch is and no, I won't be voting for one)....I think that's part of his appeal - he's willing to say something nice about someone on the other side when appropriate. I think that a lot of us (Americans) are just sick of the divisiveness.
Hillary probably defines affordable the same as you.
If all you can afford is $1 then that is what you pay.
Do you prefer the 15 million in Obama's plan stay un-insured and kill the healthcare system as they are now with every emergency room visit?
Screw the rich. they have been screwing us for years.
lopaloo102 @ 11:
Agreed. It's beyond early to bash either of our candidates. With the two of them on, they're just talking about genuine policy differences. So far so good.
Ron @ 358:
Obama/Edwards Yes. Obama/Clinton or Clinton/?? no. There are moderate conservatives such as myself who would wait in line to vote for Obama; but wouldn't, under any circumstances, vote for Hillary. If Hillary is the nominee, the dems will lose. If Obama is the nominee, you could have the greatest landslide since Reagan '84
mudshark @ 342:
You have me confused with another poster. I don't think I posted much in any of the NH related threads. But, my opinion on irregularities is that there were likely more on the repug side shutting out Ron Paul than any on the Democratic side.
What I have said before is that I don't think either of these 2 can carry the South, but if we keep Kerry's states and pick up other states like Ohio, Colorado and New Mexico we can take this. Remember, a close election can be stolen but not a landslide. Democratic tsunami in '08. We can win this.
Obama has huge support in N Calif...HRC was here last Friday....she has the Hispanic vote locked up,and a lot of other folks as well.....I don't know about So Cal....
xoites defends Constitution @ 354:
what happened xoites the did you get born again? the other night you said you gave up and to hell with it all!!!!!!
Sometimes i think Abbott and Costello could win as Democrats this year, but i prefer smarter people with even better senses of humor and i prefer to not take any chances.
Here is the correct link...sorry. Fired Up and Ready To Go Joe.
tyree @ 363:
I am trying to adjust to the emotional turmoil that our deeply flawed political process creates inside me. We have a lot of work to do to get to where we need to be. In the meantime i don't want to cut my nose off to spite my face.
nonbeliever @ 361:
yep.....you got that right.......and for the voting irregularities in NH.....somebody posted a link verifying some weird stuff up there.
Pearl Jam Drummer Matt Cameron supports Obama, in addition to Reverend Pat Wright and the Total Experience Gospel Choir, and may other Fired Up Seattle Citizens..
Fired Up and Ready To Go... Joe.
xoites defends Constitution @ 364:
I personally thought an unbeatable ticket would've been Gore/Edwards but they're not in it. I'll be happy if either of our current 2 candidates make it in.
mudshark @ 362:
obama has huge support amongst everyone who's been paying attention the last 8 years.
hillary's support only stems from her reproductive organs, unique in this year's field of candidates, and from old curmudgeons longing for the 90's.
barack obama = america's 1st 21st century candidate.
ROM Spaceknight @ 370:
That was offensive and clueless all at the same time.
I see the rabid Obama supporters got their internet connections running again.
Thanks for helping secure many of our votes for Hillary Clinton.
Who won the debate tonight Poll.
Who won Thursday's Democratic debate?
Hillary Clinton 35% 5137
Barack Obama 50% 7277
Tie 14% 2066
http://www.cnn.com/
Joe Bergevin @ 368:
that's good to hear. i'm literally blogging to pearl jam as i type.
jeff ament is my favorite american bass player.
jeff, where's your obama endorsement? we need you, amigo!!
It would be cool if C&L could put up a poll to gage their readers opinions on who won the debate. I'd be interested in that.
Janet @ 372:
That sounds about right. I'd call this debate a draw. Barack clearly wins on Iraq. They both did well bashing on the repugs which is always good.
My father is hard-line Giuliani conservative - a real political Neantherdal. I've got some very strange political views that have come from that background over time.
We both knew by at least June 2002 that Bush was taking us to war with Iraq. It started with the Axis of Evil SOTU and started ramping up in April and May, being mentioned in the June speech outlining a solution to the Palestine conflict.
I asked him in August what was taking so long. He said that Bush was trying to be nice and get others on our side - the Security Council, the Democrats, etc.
For any Democrat voting on the AUMF to claim that they didn't think Bush would take us to Iraq with that vote is disingenuous at best.
We ALL knew what was going down by the time that vote was cast.
Clinton/Obama will be the ticket. The deal's already been made, that's why the nice-nice tonight.
Wolf Blitzer should resign.
ROM Spaceknight @ 370:
Sorry, the old curmudgeons are longing for the fifties and sixties (republicans and democrats respectively.)
The ticket will not include both of them, in either order. I'll give any of you three-to-one. I take PayPal.
I'm a policy wonk so I'm glad tonight's debate stuck mostly on policies and there were no personal attacks. Wolf was rightfully booed for trying to create conflict on a question that was already answered.
Hank @ 378:
Blitzer is already resigned. He's resigned to put another republican in office.
JTM @ 380:
Yes.
I am sure you do.
What kind of serious journalist name is "Wolf", anyway? He needs to take on the first name of Mr. Morris on FOX News for trying to stir up crap.
xoites defends Constitution @ 366:
so ,then your not bothered at all by the fact that both clinton and obama are going to keep the war going and troops in iraq and afganistan untill they leave office after thier 8 yr term is over?
Tommy Gunn @ 384:
That sounds scary. Dick Blitzer.
That remains to be seen, Obama does not seem to be going in that direction (of course it bothers me if true.)
McCain only wants 100 more years.
Tommy Gunn @ 377:
I'm curious what you mean by Giuliani conservative. He's a social liberal, but governed like a bully while mayor. Is it Giuliani's foreign policy that your father agrees with?
tyree @ 385:
So tyree, who do you suggest. McCain who thinks it's okay if we are there for another 100 years.
nonbeliever @ 388:
Giuliani is a social liberal the way Charles Manson loves life.
I thought Hillary's answers on illegal immigration were well thought out and specific whereas Obama's seemed vague to the point that it seemed he doesn't have a plan to deal with illegal immigration. I felt the same about the healthcare discussion. I think Ariana described the difference between the candidates very well when she described Hillary as wonkish and hard-working compared to Obama's broad statements about change. I for one think this country is in a real mess and that we need someone who is wonkish and obsessed with details about how to get this country on track. Obama can preserve his lofty ideals for the 2016 election.
I knew we were going into Iraq in September, 2001. Bush just as much as said so.
xoites defends Constitution @ 390:
Manson loves his life. He gets 3 squares a day and a roof over his head. Better than the 200,000 vets that are on the streets and in shelters.
nonbeliever @ 388:
Pretty much. He's a social liberal, foreign policy conservative, and liberal on unions (as a firefighter, he hated Giuliani).
My dad always said that he hated Giuliani as mayor but would love him as Prez for the same reason - he's a big unitary executive guy, thinks the best two weeks the nation had were when Clinton shut down Congress.
My dad also hates Huckabee because he doesn't want religion in politics. So yeah - even though he hates Giuliani personally, he thinks the Ghoul would be perfect as Prez.
And when I say that my views on certain subjects (which can't be discussed here via site policy) would get me thrown in Gitmo for it, he starts playing the world's smallest violin.
Yes, Manson loves his life in much the same way Giuliani loves being liberal socially.
Wasn't that George (Jason Alexander) they just showed?
Begin forwarded message @ 28:
agree wholeheartedly, although i'm pretty sure johnny reid's surname's plural...
justabill @ 36:
Ya, right next to Jerry, and later they will show Michael Moore do a striptease, and Britney will perform "Watch Out I'm Nuts"...her latest song
Im voting for either of these 2 in November
I prefer Clinton/Obama
but Obama/Clinton
wouldnt hurt my feelings either
08isourYear @ 33:
15 million is the estimate that would remain uninsured even with a mandate.
Roger from Ohio @ 31:
Never/Happen. '08
Fanon @ 40:
AND still run by insurance scam companies.......nice.......Universal screwjob for all Americans!! Way better than socialism!! Hahaha
ConcernedCanuck @ 38:
Allright! They needed to do something to keep me awake through this thing.
justabill @ 36:
LOL, Believe it or not, George isn't at home...
I'm sure he's there. I saw Rob Reiner in the audience earlier.
This debate rocks!!!
Roger from Ohio @ 31:
it'll never happen. too much dirt on the clintons. more dirt than "pig pen" from "peanuts".
obama/edwards '08.
no more G-ddamn clintons, no more G-ddamn bushes. 28 years under the same two dynasties? yeah, right, like a monarchy... a schizophrenic monarchy, at that.
no thanks, i think i'll pass.
I mean mandatory insurance which is what Hillary proposes. Plus, EMR (Electronic Medical Record) is a great idea, but financially out of reach of a lot of small medical practices (like mine).
Obama is doing well tonight.
Ron @ 389:
now let me say i dont know how long obama has decided to stay in iraq but it doesnt sound like anytime to soon! but i did hear hillary say on cnn that she would withdraw some troops from iraq , now im quoteing her! and leave troops to gaurd the embassy , and troops to opperate and guard thoes twelve military bases , and keep troops in iraq to train the iraqys and have a quick reaction force to quell any attacks by alkida , now how many troops do you suppose she can bring home and do all that??? and do you believe that none of thoes troops are going to be killed by iraqys who want our oil thieveing asses out of iraq ? as far as mcdrool goes he or you will not be alive in a hundread yrs!
One interesting thing brought up in a comment on Kos: Hillary spent the night attacking George Bush, whereas Barack spent the night attacking McCain and Romney.
More fuel to the Obama supporters "looking towards the future, not the past".
Tyree, if McCain wins none of us may be alive in ten.
xoites defends Constitution @ 390:
Well, he does support a woman's right to choose and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage so I would call him a social liberal and thus out of the mainstream in his party.
liberalista @ 391:
I agree this country is a mess but do you think we need another pres that thinks they know what is best for us or one that wants THE PEOPLE (you know us) involved with the process? He wants hearings telecast so We The People know what is going on. We the People have been ignored for too long. The last 7 years have been so depressing and too many of us have given up. Obama is firing people up to get involved. The only thing I agree with you on is that Hillary is obsessed.
John Amato looks like what's his name. The guy that played in the movie "Stargate." I can't think of his name right now but, he's the one that is with Goldie Hawn.
What was that about Hillary's husband...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html?em&ex=1201928...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius#Early_political_career
Obama/Sebelius '08!
The perfect ticket.
...with Richardson Secretary of State and Edwards Attorney General of course.
If being pro choice and not opposed to gay marriage is all you have to do to be a social liberal then there are a hell of a lot more social liberals than i previously thought.
tyree @ 396:
You didn't answer the question.
xoites defends Constitution @ 398:
ive said my piece , i guess theres no such thing as a man with princples anymore , guess i missjudged you!
Ron @ 405:
i answerd it you just werent listening!
tyree @ 406:
Tyree, GEEZE! Don't hurt me, man.
Look, we are stuck with a very few choices at this point. I don't like them any more than you do. If you have a better idea, please tell me.
xoites defends Constitution @ 392:
I knew we were going into Iraq in Nov 00.....I asked a friend of mine who he voted for,and he said Boosh.I said"You do know we will be going into Iraq don't you"..he scoffed...lets see?His son should be coming of age soon.Betcha he feels differently now.
tyree @ 407:
Who do you you suggest, was the question.
xoites defends Constitution @ 408:
guess thier is no answers but i wont settle for more more war by useing my vote to keep it going , thiers no way back from iraq or afganistan with any honor!
Ron @ 401:
LOL I'm on the phone with John right now and he told me to thank you for likening him to Kurt Russell.
I believe his exact quote is "Yeah, baby!" ;)
Then let's get us some health care, Tyree.
"after all...this is the guy who tried to kill my dad"....ring a bell?
Ron @ 410:
i have no preference ,take you pick from one of two poisons!
Nicole Belle @ 412:
I knew it was Kurt Russel but I was having a brain fart and couldn't think of his name.
tyree @ 415:
We will just have to work our way toward more progressive candidates as we go.
Tommy Gunn @ 394:
Your dad's got some interesting views. We'd agree on Huckabee, but disagree on the unitary executive and other things. LOL at the violin. It's cool you guys discuss politics with some humor injected.
tyree @ 415:
Yeah, we do have to make choices.
John, you did well tonight on Countdown.
xoites defends Constitution @ 413:
from what ive seen of boths heath care ,if you get sick and the insurance companys decide you dont need a certain care or opperation or medicine they can decline to help you! well haveing been there and done that with that kind of health care you can have it, your scared to even go to the hospital , one screw up and your intire checking accounts wipped out! just wich one mentioned universal health care , cause i never heard either one say it?
Letterman's Top Ten things overheard on Cheney's 61st birthday tonight was WICKED!!
LOL!!!!
Telecom immunity is 51 votes away from being gone.
Where will Clinton and Obama be on Monday when they are needed?
tyree @ 421:
They both talked about it tonight. I heard Hillary say she wants noone excluded for any reason.
xoites defends Constitution @ 417:
yep...we have to start somewhere.But the here and now..is what's important.We have to unify and win the WH,and the Senate and The House....I think we're headed in the Left direction.
xoites defends Constitution @ 392:
maybe that was what the anthrax attacks were about.
tr @ 426:
No, it was before the Anthrax attacks that he let it slip. Well, he did not let it slip. He was screaming about al qeda ties to Iraq right away.
xoites defends Constitution @ 424:
universal health care? ill believe it when they produce it ! it still doesnt get us out of iraq, and afganistan ,
tyree @ 428:
No, and it does not end homelessness or rebuild our manufacturing base either. It just beats the hell out of McCain and his desire to bomb Iran.
xoites defends Constitution @ 427:
he came into the whitehouse with the idea of taking out saddam. i'm suggesting that the anthrax attacks gave him an opportunity to indirectly implicate iraq as iraq was known to have posessed anthrax at one time.
xoites defends Constitution @ 429:
well who ever bombs iran it wont be with my vote , i dont vote for warmongers , and i wont watch dead troopers or iraqy children on tv and feel i had a part in thier deaths!
I'm not watching the debate, but I will catch the highlights/lowlights right here on C&L.
Keith gave props to C&L? Too cool! I'll make sure to TIVO the replay.
Dodd- Would have made a great Pres.
Biden- Good, not great.
Richardson - Good, not great.
Kucinich - Great.
Edwards - Great.
Obama -Not sure, but clearly good at least.
Clinton - Not sure, but clearly good at least.
Now, not a single Republican can say they would even be a good Pres.
Why do Republican voters hate America?
why do they say "a path to citizenship"...how about a path to legal residency..And then citizenship.Seems to me that they're putting the cart in front of the horse.
RE: Illegals with driver's licenses: Hillary agreed with it before she opposed it. Wonder if she will answer the question.
HURLEY FOR PRESIDENT!!!!...."DUDE"
mudshark @ 49:
Maybe just a matter of semantics?
She's faltering. Obama did a better job with the immigration question.
first time i've been more impressed by clinton than obama....i hope he grabs a vitamin water and a coffee on the first break, seems a little tired and uncomfortable...
Fanon @ 46:
Ya, cuz people that can't afford healthcare should be forced to have some kind of insurance cuz.......they can't afford healthcare!!! Bullshit. If Canada can afford healthcare so can the US. This is a Corporate copout.
ROM Spaceknight @ 45:
Dont forget about Jeb Bush waiting in the wings
Fanon @ 52:
naw.....it's about the votes.....and future voters.
I hate Wolf, can I just say that. He's an ass
too much dirt on the clintons
16 years of privately- and publicly-funded muckraking found absolutely nothing. If Bill hadn't tried to stonewall on Monica, they wouldn't have had that much, and the American people supported him on that.
I have major issues with the Clintons' ties to the DLC establishment, and I agree with you on the dynasties problem, but there is no dirt worth discussing.
I'd say(imo).....HRC is leading.....
So far Hillary has shouted out to California and New York. Heh.
I don't like the "learn English" requirement they both seem to have, though it would probably be extremely leniant.
Wow. The pandering is out of control in this debate... and they keep referring to eachother as "we," as if they're a fused identity.
Hillary senses Obama won the immigration question and ratchets it up with a Jesus/Good Samaritan reference. Dang..
lopaloo102 @ 54:
I Dont think he can think on his feet.
He gives great speeches, he can read things that are written well
but he cant come up with his own ideas on the spot
thats why he seldom answers questions after speeches
Meander @ 59:
That doesn't mean that the swiftboaters won't dig it up and throw it out there again. There are still a large percentage that don't follow the facts. I say facts because now days we can't call it news.
hrc is kicking bo's butt......edwards must be punching the tv, wishing he'd been here, the night barak decides to call one in....
barak is getting annoying with this flip flop crap......reminds me of bush attacking kerry
This debate is exhausting. These candidates are totally identical and it hurts my head to hear them try and parse the fake differences between them.
Except for one thing: Barack isn't married to a war criminal.
Licenses - no. Learn English - no.
Hello, I'm here illegally. I'd like a license!
Herself @ 61:
don't take this wrong....but english is spoken in almost every country on the planet...of course..some more than others.
I think to function in this country...one needs to speak english.If for no other reason.....the opportunities..
Dick Cheney '08!
Who will be the next candidate to be voted off Fantasy Island? Will it be Hillary, Barach? I suspect both. The General Public will never go for their tax increase statement. Both of them walked knee deep into that one. What a trap by Blitzer. I fear both of these candidates will never make it in the General Election. Oh Boy, the Dems blew the easiest chance to win an election by putting Hillary and Obama as candidates. This is going to go down in history as the biggest blunder ever created by the Democratic Party and their voters that went along with it!
bradda @ 203:
I honestly think she is saving that for the general election to put a nail in the coffin of the GOP candidate. She better hope she makes it there.
Anybody notice how when HRC talked about taking a lot of time to think about that Iraq vote and coming to a "reasoned decision", BHO turned towards her and kind of perked up at the shoulders?
He could have nailed her; he should have nailed her. She has - on more than one occasion - explained that vote by claiming that she didn't have the time to think it through. She was lying through her teeth, he knew it...and he let it slide.
A Clinton won't clean up after a Bush, the first one carried most of the first Bush's policies through. The second refused to run against a Bush. And the two families seem to be pretty buddy buddy of late, so i'm not sure that "clean up" after is the right phrase. Humanize the empire building, maybe shift the focus from guns to globalization, but hardly clean up.
Still, he's not a very good debater, and in my opinion she won pretty handily. But it looks like the polls disagree with me. I've rarely been so happy to be wrong.
jackpine: "But it looks like the polls disagree with me. I’ve rarely been so happy to be wrong."
What polls??
how odd, they had room for 3 people when Edwards was still in the race, and Mike Gravel is still a democratic nominee but everyone ignores him. Gee, I wonder why.
I for one have learned not to pay attention to the media at all in deciding a candidate, because they will pick the worst one for me.
I think some points should go to Obama for using a historical tactic against Hillary's support of the war resolution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhSkMhTIX-U
Wow. Just what I wanted to see and hear: 2 Corporatist/stealth Republican lackies arguing and posturing, pretending that they give a shit about the American People.
Yawn I watched lost instead.
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