Bring on the brokered convention
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Download | play (h/t Logan)
Dan Abrams with Pat Buchanan and Craig Crawford discuss the super delegates and how they may decide the nomination.
There are a total number of 4,049 Democratic delegates available in the presidential nominating process, making 2,025 the magic number for each candidate. If no candidate reaches the threshold in time, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama will have themselves a good ol’ fashioned brokered convention in Denver this August.
This seemed unlikely a few weeks ago, but after Super Tuesday, it may very well happen after all.
The reason is pretty straightforward: Obama has a slight edge in pledged delegates (Dems who vote in primaries and caucuses), while Clinton has a slight edge in superdelegates (lawmakers, governors, DNC members, establishment types). Taken together, they each have about 1,000 delegates. As Jonathan Cohn explained, it’s going to be tricky for either of them to get to 2,025.
In the remaining primaries and caucuses, only 1,787 delegates are at stake. So to win the nomination on pledged delegates alone, a candidate has to win 57 percent of those at stake. And that won’t be so easy to do.
Remember, the Democrats don’t have winner-take-all contests anymore. The primaries and caucuses award delegates with formulas that are based on proportional representation. In a situation where two candidates, each with solid funding, are running strong, it will be difficult to run up large margins. It’s entirely possible we’ll see a lot of results like last night, in which — after all the back-and-forth over who won which state — the two finished nearly even in delegates won.
Exactly. Neither one can put the other one away.
This not only means a brokered convention, it also means a dynamic in which superdelegates pick the Democratic nominee. Kevin and Ezra debate whether that's good or bad.
The nominee will be picked by the "establishment types". So when we hear the word change try not to puke.
I saw this as well as other interviews with Crawford and Abrams. They're both dead-on right about the MSM and its bias against the Clintons.
Good for these two guys!
So hundreds of millions spent and millions voted, and the boys in the back room pick Hillary.
Total effing bullshit.
Somebody on TV the other day compared the superdelegates to the British House of Lords. I'd say that's a pretty apt comparison.
Vic @ 1:
Yep. Howard Dean wants them to "swing a deal" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Sounds like more of Republican politics.
Certainly we should listen to these guys as we all know things go down just like they predict
I find clips like this extremely frustrating -- it's definitely a topic that's worth talking about, but the second anyone starts saying something interesting Abrams starts yelling and interrupts. This could have been such a great discussion but I learned next to nothing here.
I just read that a congressman from Minnesota has given his superdelegate vote to Obama because he wanted his vote to reflect the will of the people of Minnesota. I think if we see more of this type of behavior, the minds of the voters will be more at ease.
They were all talking over each other. that was so hard to listen to
If Hillary gets the nomination by virtue of superdelegates, I will abstain from voting in the general election. The "establishment" of the democratic party has shown time and time again that it is incompetent and consistently wrong. It wasn't until the "grassroots" movement that the democratic party regained some of its stature and legitimacy.
Considering all those delegates Obamarama won at those "democrats for a day" caucuses are perfectly legitimate, superdelegates can counter those repubs who voted Obamarama at the caucuses but will certainly vote Mccain in November.
Just announced. Romney is out!
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I support neither Obama nor Clinton, however I think many will agree that Clinton cannot beat McCain in a general election. In a choice between two pre-emptive warriors, why wouldn't Americans elect the bigger war monger of the two? Asking progressive Democrats to once again hold their noses and vote for the lesser of two evils - and one who has no intention whatsoever of withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq in the forseeable future - seems like a stretch to me.
Can't believe after the American public has expressed its desire to end the Iraq War that we could be facing a general election with Clinton v. McCain. That would certainly send a strong message to the world that the Empire has no intention of changing course.
Rep. Tim Walz, MN, give that man a seegar!
So this is how it will all unfold. Make it 2000/2004 close, then lay the blame on the superdelegates. Sheesh, and i thought there was still a chance for the late-great USA.
crowdpleaser @ 11:
Democrats for a day? Oh, you mean independents. Give me a break.
I saw an interview on super tuesday on msnbc with Chris Matthews. I can't remember which superdelegate he was interviewing, but the superdelegate indicated that he would vote for whomever he wished even if his state voted the opposite. Chris Matthews responded, so, you don't care what your constiuents want, you will just vote for who you want. The superdelegate hemmed and hawed and wouldn't really answer the question.
That's what pisses me off about superdelegates. That their entire state can support a candidate and they can vote the opposite. I find the whole system patronizing "Oh, silly voters, you don't know what you want. Let us take care of this for you".
I'd like to see more reporting on these Superdelegates... Good Job Abrams!
In the back room it's not going to be, What will you do for the People?
It's going to be, What will you do for G.E., big pharma, and the like ("the like" including the DLC)?
Mr. Pelicano @ 13:
That's exactly the point. Americans don't want to be in Iraq but as a country we couldn't care less about sending any kind of "message to the world"...unless its "f*ck you".
Besides "its the economy, stupid."
Can anyone tell me how a brokered convention is not certain defeat? Really.
Hypothetical: If you are a Obama supporter and he goes in with a small lead, and the convention seats the Florida delegates and Clinton wins, are you going to support HRC? Or vice versa. I bet there would be a delegate walkout. And the walkout would be from the Democratic 08 campaign.
The sooner you realize that these TeeVee Clones (all sides of the spectrum) don't really know what the hell they are talking about and have zero solutions for anything the sooner you will be free.
Vic @ 1:
LOLOLOL! Ohhh...who will win...WHO...WILL...WIN?!?!?
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
It's the Constitution, stupid.
VietVet8666 @ 18:
In the back room...the People take it in the backside!
Smile and remember to say thank you.
It’s this simple:
- Barak can get everyone of Hillary’s voters and sustain the huge turnouts, Hillary CAN’T get everyone of Barak’s voters and sustain the large turnouts on election day. She’s reached her ceiling a month ago.
- If Hillary is the nominee, the Iraq War is off the table as a issue. The Republicans only have to repeat “You can’t be against something you voted for and do not regret even today” 10 million times.
- Hillary is a uniter: Of the Republican Party. The Republican party is about to split into three sections, if Hillary is the nominee, they will all unite and many Independents and Reagan Democrats will vote for McCain over the divisive Hillary.
Barak only needs to make a “electable” argument from this point forward to win the nomination. Hillary can’t make a electable argument against John McCain. And Barak shouldn’t put Hillary on his ticket if McCain is the nominee because he needs a STRONG military stance. A Baraka Obama/Jim Webb ticket would be UNSTOPPABLE!
BOTTOM LINE: I'm a registered Independent voter in Wisconsin and more than likely we will vote for Obama. If my vote is taken away because of super delegates or because Michigan and Florida are counted into Hillary's totals, then I'm purposely voting Republican in the Fall. If she wins fair and square then that's fine, but if she uses Republican tactics within her own party to secure the nomination then the Democratic party will implode!
Breaking News!!! Mutt has withdrawn!!!!!!
I don't like the notion of super delegates one bit - if the state votes and strongly shows their preference, a superdelegate can still go against the wishes of his/her electorate and choose his/her preference. I'd just once like to see the popular vote be the decider. Otherwise, why should the average american vote?
Perhaps HRC could campaign against McCain by championing her Republican credentials. In many respects she is more of a "true" conservative than he is and, after all, she was a Goldwater Girl and defender of global multinational corporations - still does the latter, along with her Dem partner-in-crime, Chuck Schumer.
When all is said and done, there is only one mission for the two establishment parties: Defend the Empire at all costs.
Excuse me while I go tune my fiddle...
you'rekillingindependentgeorge @ 12:
yeah right, Zenu disapproves.
In November the people will be offered "lite"..
McCain - Democrat lite...more palatable to centrists.
Hillary - Republican lite...more palatable to centrists.
May he who is most centrist WIN!
"MEEET the new boss....da same as da old boss"
Tweety Matthews has always been at the top of my list of annoying, obnoxious a$$holes when it comes to interviews. But, Dan Abrams appears to be aggressively challenging Tweety for the honor of top dog in that category in this clip. What a nauseating jerk -- actually threw my half-eaten panini at the t.v. screen watching this one.
I am going to vote for Edwards at my caucus.
CBS News just reported that Romney is suspending his campaign (but holding on to his delegates).
Liberal AND Proud @ 22:
Who will win is whoever "they" decide will win. I have come to realize that voting post 2000 is not only a joke. But an insult to any intelligent person with their head screwed on and brain fully functioning on it's own.
So I will vote for the Pre-Packaged candidate of choice in Nov. Hang my head and look down upon leaving the voting facility, then think. . . Okay, who will they give us? Someone who will empower us to continue pursuing the great American Dream of isolating ourselves from each other.
If the voting produces a virtual tie, you need to have a tie-breaker of some sort. The presidential election goes to the house of representatives casting one vote per state; many local elections flip a coin or cut a deck of cards. There's not need to get worked up over the super delegate system. The only other approach involves having the deal-makers trying to swing delegates around. Things always get weird when the electorate is evenly split. Florida would have been an ugly election no matter what, but if either Gore or Bush had been a full percentage point or two ahead, nobody would have cared (about the shoddy electoral process, anyway). You could come up with a series of objective (but possibly not relevant) tie-breaker criteria such as most-states-won, most-popular-votes, etc. I don't know that this would make anybody happier: flipping a coin is fair, but ...
Dean has to find a way to resolve this before the convention. There are hardly any "win" situations for the party in the hall. I see disaster and acrimony leading to McCain and a GOP pickup in the congress.
Liberal AND Proud @ 30:
And the corporations...smiled...and saw that it was good...and they bestowed upon the people...more corporate subsidies...outsourced jobs...higher prices...less healthcare...and the universe was serene...and the birds sang...
Conservatism is DEAD.
And already whinny pout widdle guy is saying he should get the super delegate, because he is the people's choice...WFH? Who said he is the people's choice. He is the choice of all the black people. And the youngesters who think he is Britney Spears. Oh I forgot the jelly ball men who are afraid to vote for a woman....you know who you are.
Americans about comfort and convenience. You can even swipe your credit card at the funeral home to pay for a funeral these days.
Liberal AND Proud @ 22:
A: It doesn't matter. The Progressives are already gone. All that's left are two corporate shills. The Sophie's choice is between the despised woman or the inexperienced black guy.
Either way, we already shot ourselves in the foot.
Dr. Matt @ 38:
It's always been dead. But they own the money unfortunately.
Yellowbird @ 32:
You ought to hope they don't change the rules and location....when a lot of us seniors showed up to our cacucus they had been moved, consolidated they said. No chance to get transportation that time of night to a location 50 miles away....
Mittens is suspending his campaign
L.A. Confidential @ 42:
Huh?
L.A. Confidential @ 40:
And if you can't pay that bill they can always dig you up and repossess your casket to salvage and sell as "used".
not sure why you guys are happy that romney is out
now the great echo machine will shut it down vs mccain, knowing that their voices will be wasted
they will go into attack more against both hillary and obama
Marge @ 39:
Gee, Marge, what does that make me? I am a white over 30 woman.
I am sick of the "people are afraid to vote for a woman" crap. Get over yourself. Sexism is sexism in any form. I am not afraid to vote for a woman. I just REALLY don't want to vote for this particular woman. Last time I checked there were plenty of powerful women holding elected offices throughout the US including the goddamn speaker of the house.
So, cut the crap.
Johnny2Bad @ 45:
Conservatism is an economic philosophy.
Your confusing conservatism with "pop conservatism", the evangelicals and other nut cases the TeeVee feeds us 24/7 to keep us off balance and distracted.
you'rekillingindependentgeorge @ 12:
Dr. Matt @ 26:
pissed off patricia @ 44:
Yeah. We heard.
L.A. Confidential @ 40:
You can buy a casket at COSTCO...
This still doesn't make sense to me. If you have 4,049 total delegates and two candidates, how does one NOT get to 2,025? Are there that many Edwards/Kucinich/uncomitted delegates out there, and if so, won't they throw themselves to Clinton or Obama eventually?...
Marge @ 39:
This is exactly why I switched from HRC to Obama a month ago and contemplating on whether I can even support her in the general. How many Black people live in Iowa? Delaware? Conneticut? Idaho? Alaska? Colorado? Minnesota? If you look at the States won map, he has literally formed a line across the country starting on the East Coast, through the Midwest, into the Southwest, and may be Washington this weekend. I don't think you'll win too many supporters by calling young people morons, and men who support Obama whimps.
That's the difference between Obama supporters and HRC supporters. Obama supporters talk about how motivating and inspirational Obama is and why they're proud to support him. HRC supporters just personally attack Obama supporters for not supporting HRC. They don't/can't glorify their candidate in the same way, so they just put down others.
If Hillary is elected, what you are doing to Obama supporters is what the Republicans and Independents will do for the next 4 to 8 years to you. I'm tired of living in a divided nation....which is why I'm for Obama.
Attack me all you want.....but you do it at HRC's expense.
Fanon @ 51:
LOL! How bout Best Buy?
Fanon @ 48:
Yeah, "Marge"..."Fanon" is even in Oprah's Candidate Club...so back off, Sistah.
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
To be fair, you can't blame Diebold all for this. GW Bush didn't create the back room deal. That's been going on for decades. The primary season was supposed to end all of that...well...how'd THAT work out.
Johnny2Bad @ 55:
Fuck off Johhny. You make an Oprah comment every time you fucking talk about Obama. You are a very thinly veiled racist and I have grwon weary of you.
You don't support anyone and said you won't even vote and that people who do are stupid. So, who gives a shit what you think?
I'm done with you.
moondancer @ 20:
And we had Year 2000 events in Florida, see http://www.andrys.com/flballot.html
Just try telling the 1.7 million people in Florida who made sure to vote this year, despite the penalty against their regional party leaders for daring to move the election date up, that their votes won't count.
That also would ensure the Democrat loss in Florida, in what will likely be another close election. The resulting apathy alone, from anger, would do it.
And then you have a situation in which many commenters misunderstood the rules after the penalty. Private FUNDRAISING meetings were permitted. Both Obama and Clinton did this, Clinton attending two meetings when she was in Florida on the last day.
Normal campaigning was not allowed and they promised not to do that. HOWEVER, Obama, ironically, had 5 ads shown in Florida during the last week or two because he had bought national advertising and Florida was automatically a part of that and, it's said, they couldn't exclude Florida. (Really? You deserve to get what you pay for in a bundled deal, but you can usually opt out of some of the goods to meet strict rules.)
At any rate, buying the national bundle was smart.
Obama and Edwards took their names off in Michigan but were not required to.
They left them on in Florida though.
knifewrench @ 52:
It's the NEW math. Oh...sorry...they only teach it in schools for the privileged.
Fanon @ 57:
Uh, oh....Touchy, touchy. Me thinks the housefrau doth protest too much.
On the brighter side, if you happen to be a superdelegate you're looking at a lot of free lunches and some free schwag to boot!
If Hillary, or Obama becomes President. All they are going to be able to do is make people feel better about their servitude.
I believe the honeymoon in either case is going to wear off very quickly.
L.A. Confidential @ 62:
Thats better then a Republican though. They enjoy seeing people suffer.
At least the Democrats make you feel good about suffering.
Johnny2Bad @ 60:
No haufrau here. Why don't you add mysongynist to your list, as well.
Bite me, you two bit hack
L.A. Confidential @ 62:
If either gets elected...It sure will.
The "establishment" types better remember that IF they pick Hillary, Half the voters in the COUNTRY - not in the democratic party - will stay home election night and they will lose. See you in another four years. The democrats haven't learned jack.
L.A. Confidential @ 54:
No. But they'll install 5.1 sound for $50.
Andrys B. @ 58:
Finetuning what I wrote:
Normal campaigning was not allowed and they promised not to do that. HOWEVER, Obama, ironically, had 5 ads shown in Florida during the last week or two because he had bought national advertising and Florida was automatically a part of that and, it's said, they couldn't exclude Florida. [ I just realized the ads would just be shown on national networks and Floridians would see them no matter what.]
At any rate, buying the national bundle was smart.
Obama and Edwards took their names off in Michigan but were not required to.
They left them on in Florida though.
Johnny2Bad @ 65:
We'll still have an abundance of Celebrity's, cleavage, bad food, and drugs to make us feel "normal".
Fanon @ 64:
Tem-perrrrr. Not "done with me" yet I see.
L.A. Confidential @ 69:
Thank God.
It's great how any topic remotely related to our presidential "horse race" devolves into bickering between HRC and Obama supporters here on C&L. It reinforces the notion that the repugs will find a way to keep the WH.
Liberal AND Proud @ 67:
And a video screen for around $100 with a "perpetual" photo of your dearly departed.
Liberal AND Proud @ 67:
HAHA! There ya go!
Fanon @ 73:
And a DVD player so us dearly departed can watch An Inconvenient Truth.
I'm going underground baby!
Blue Lensman @ 72:
The Dems will lose to McCain...as hard to believe as that sounds.
Listen folks...this is politics. The right wingers were gonna stay home. But either a black or a woman in the race will bring them out...to vote AGAINST. The country is still not ready. The primaries are NOT a representation of the general election...they simply are NOT. Neither are the polls in this regard...because people LIE.
The country is not ready to put a black or woman in the WH. Don't jump on me. I am talking POLITICS. Not gonna happen.
We need to win the middle of the country...the LILLY WHITE, RIGHT WING, REAGAN DEMOCRAT part of the country. Neither of these candidates can do that. Even if we win California and Florida...I don't think we can pull it off.
Sorry.
Liberal AND Proud @ 76:
Then there is two choice. Join them, or leave the country.
Leaving is sounding more appealing by the day.
Meanwhile ROmney's imminent political demise shows that though money is obviously a factor in political success, it isn't enough--and that I find quite encouraging.
crowdpleaser @ 11:
What about those independents like my self who were prevented form voting in the primaries of their state (colorado) but want to vote for Obama and will refuse to vote for anyone else? Why should super delegates have the opportunity to over rule my vote, are they more important to this country than myself or those like me who refuse to join silly sororities and fraternities, I mean political parties?
the Billary spin continues
Liberal AND Proud @ 76:
Consider some recent history. Like Tuesday for instance.
More people came out and voted for a black man and woman than turned out to vote for three white guys.
Now pull yourself together.
Obama is indeed fortunate that the Democrats aren't using winner take all. If they were, he'd be trailing by 329 delegates and with Florida and Michigan being seated, Clinton would be ahead 1438 to 743. These totals do not include the super delegates. People need to relax and let the existing process play itself out, then let the bitching begin. Frankly, I could support either candidate, but of utmost importance to me is the candidate's policy making advisers. Flowery, uplifting speeches are nice, but I am interested in selecting someone who can achieve results.
Joementum @ 81:
NATIONAL ELECTION, son. NATIONAL ELECTION.
And the blowback will be worse. By getting out the wingnut vote...the Dems have jeopardized a runaway in the House and Senate.
L.A. Confidential @ 77:
I've got my passport already. Looking into my family tree. Some countries, by proving heritage, give special consideration to your applying for citizenship.
And believe me, I ain't too happy about this. But I'm around long enuf and voted in enuf elections to know what really can happen.
Idealism is great...until it's time to pull the lever...then all the old buggaboos, prejudices, etc come out.
Maybe in 8 years, who knows. When my father's generation passes...then...MAYBE then.
Indylee:
If you truly want to vote in a primary then pick a party on the ballot and register. That's the simple part. Whom you vote for is your business. Don't want to join a fraternity or sorority, then that's your business too, but you know the rules the political parties put into place in your state beforehand.
You know as well as I do that those "Dems for a day" have no intention of ever voting for a Dem in November. Their caucus votes went into creating the "miraculous" victories of Obama's in states such as Utah and Idaho in which Dems have a snowball's chance of ever winning in November.
Liberal AND Proud @ 76:
Easy "L&P". You start talking like that around here you're risking being called a misogynistic racist.
(Psssst. BTW, I agree with you.)
Andrys B. @ 68:
As I understood it the ads were shown in states near Florida, no in Florida. The reason they were seen in Florida is because of the properties governing the distribution of radio waves in the electro-magnetic spectrum. And the signals that carried those ads were also picked up in Florida. I don't buy your National advertising argument because I am sure HRC did the same. I think the media hacks latched onto a story without getting all of their facts right and then sensationalized it.
When banks compete, we win.
I'm looking forward to the two candidates' having to outdo each other with promises to fix what's broken, and actually address real issues. Each has a few months now to distinguish him/herself from the status quo, and to try to look less like total corporatists.
Don't let 'em off the hook. Instinct will drive them to try to fill air time with play-it-safe platitudes about change. It's our job to pin them down. Make them swear to end the war. Exact their pledges to repeal the bankruptcy bill. Get them on record.
crowdpleaser @ 86:
So you are saying that a 'dem for a day' would willingly give up the chance to vote in the republican primary's for a republican candidate even though pre feb 5th, the republican race was just as close as competitive as the democrat race? Just so they could try to mess things up for the democrats? Really? Wow that is a conspiracy theory if I ever heard one.
Yes, I know the rules of the political parties , however, just because they are the rules doesn't make them right for our country in this modern age. I also have learned enough about rules to know when it is time to break them. If our country ever needed to start breaking the silly rules governing politics and elections now is surly the time to start doing just that.
Finnigan @ 10:
I may abstain, but I might actually vote Republican if that happens. I know I'll have to sit in the bathtub for 3 months trying to wash the filth off of me, but I will vote Republican. And I'll let the party bosses know it.
It's all about who gets the most votes from the people. Dean is not gonna let this vote be decided by pledge or superdelegates. it's all about the popular vote, that person should be the winner.
The MSM used to cover national conventions from gavel to gavel, but lately they just show the highlights; keynote, nominations, acceptance, because it's not that "newsworthy," (doesn't draw viewers.) A brokered convention, especially if there are several rounds of voting, will force more coverage, which is free advertising. Hard to say how they would then handle the GOP meetup, whether they'd have to give equal time to a boring done deal.
The superdelegates are going to be looking not only toward the Presidential race, but Congressional and state contests as well. HRC is bad news for that. The religious right is not happy with McCain, but will come out to vote against her, and vote Repub on down the ballot. Unless Nader enters as an alternative, progressives might stay home. So the supers might decide Obama suits their needs better.
The feministas who are so intoxicated with the idea of a vagina in the Oval Office are not likely to stay home and give McCain the chance to stack the SCOTUS against Roe v. Wade. And Obama's appeal to young voters is important to future elections; you don't want to frustrate them so they turn away from politics.
"it's all about the popular vote"
Does that include FL and MI, as it should?
Fanon @ 16:
That was Menendez from NJ....
He said something to the effect that "his belief that Hillary was the best candidate for our country would outweigh the thoughts of his constituents"
If this race is determined by superdelegates and they don't vote with their Districts (Reps) or State (Sen) then this is a effing joke... and it will deter voters
Also, if Hillary wins because she gets her way with the delegates in MI & FL, I think that will deter voters as well.
You can't say you won 2 states in which there was no campaigning, and in one no one but your name was on the ballot. Everyone knows Obama has less name recognition then HRC and that plays a HUGE part in why she lead in votes in FL & MI.
Personally I think Dean should allow these states to hold caucuses and allow the Candidates to campaign there for a week or two, THEN you can seat the delegates.
NJ went for HRC and Menendez does represent NJ, doesn't he?
FL voters voted knowing their delegates wouldn't be counted. They came out in droves. Why should their votes be thrown out? Are we repeating November 200 and the aftermath? Is the boohooing because Obamarama didn't begin his "surge" at the time of voting?
John@ 95
Thanks, it was really bugging me
crowdpleaser @ 97
It was before any of the results were in. What he was saying was he didn't really care which way his state voted. He was voitng for HRC
That should be November 2000.
Marge @ 39:
Hey bitch, you look reallllllll boring. No wonder your name is Marge.
crowdpleaser @ 98:
No, it's not boohooing!
I just don't like the fact that HRC agreed that the delegates shouldn't be counted! and NOW she wants them counted!
If Obama won FL and wanted the delegates counted I would think it was pathetic as well!
I just find it untrustworthy to agree to a stipulation and then want to change the rules!
Fanon @ 99:
Yes, he was discussing this with Chris Matthews well before NJ was called.
Tweety asked him in 3 different ways "What would it take for you to vote for Obama" "Would you switch to Obama if your state went to him?" He continually said he was supporting Clinton, no matter what happened..
We have the same problem here in AK, out DNC chair of the state is supporting HRC eventhough Obama won 75-25 in the state
Three times NJ was called too close to call and the Dem candidate won handily (pres.election 2004, Corzine and Menendez). Menendez knew as did many others HRC in this case would take NJ, and she did. His cockiness reflected that. So what?
Interesting article further exploring the assertions made in this post here. The crux is that seating the Florida and Michigan delegates becomes even more of an issue than it is already...
"When Massachusetts Senator Edward Kennedy endorsed Illinois Senator Barack Obama January 28, he moved Obama one vote closer to becoming the Democratic Party’s nominee. Kennedy is a “superdelegate” to the Democratic Party's convention, so his vote, along with other party leaders' votes, will be counted to determine the party’s nominee."
Kennedy giving his vote to HRC? Yeah right.
crowdpleaser @ 106:
And I think that is BS!
As for the "cockiness" of Menendez, I agree that he knew Hillary was going to win the state. HOWEVER, why would you through your constituents under the bus? Why would you say "my belief that Hillary was the best candidate for our country would outweigh the thoughts of his constituents”
Instead of saying something along the lines of I support HRC, but my constituents will make the final decision.
Menendez is a tough, cocky politician. NJ'ers knew that when he ran. I agree with you he should have used better words but that is not his style.
Obama's supporters are fast becoming more intolerant and nasty than the republicans, bible thumpers and Fox News. When do you all get your white robes and your flowers to sell on the street corners and airports?
"The feministas who are so intoxicated with the idea of a vagina in the Oval Office"
Bluesage, I think you're right.
Bluesage @ 109:
Are you serious?
Do you listen to Air America, Ed Schultz, or Stephanie Miller?
If you listen for 15 min or longer you will hear a call about how unfair the "enter host name here" is treating HRC! and then you continually hear 5 calls an hour about how Obama has no experience.
Seriously, you can tell they read from a card that tells them what to say, I will just say that the HRC supporters are ruining the shows...
I was an Edwards supporter so I was undecided after he left the campaign but Hillary does not deserve the trashing she's getting. Obama and his wife have been less than gracious and I really don't understand this cult-like following he's getting. If it's the Oprah factor you would do well to remember that she was the one who unleashed the plague of Dr. Phil on us.
John - I do not listen to those shows but I do read the blogs and it is just unbelievable the level of rancor directed toward Hillary. Americablog and Huff are the worst but looks like C&L might be trying to catch up.
crowdpleaser @ 104:
He didn't "know" she would take NJ and he didn't care. He was going to vote for HRC if 0% of his constituents wanted her. That's the point and that's the problem with the superdelegates. They were put in place when McGovern won the popular vote and it was felt that he did not "represent the parties interests" so they put this process in place to protect the party.
Ok, no offense Bluesage but you sound like a "Hillbot" Huffington Post has fanatics on both sides, read one story and read the comments, its very even toward both.
Both Candidates and their families have been "less then gracious" are you telling my Bill was "gracious" toward Obama? Come on now...
If you were to listen to any "left" shows the hosts speak for BOTH candidates, yet Hillary "supporters" call in and read from scripts about how unfair the world is, when it's obvious they have never listened to the show!
You admit the amount of hate toward Hillary and yet you think she is the candidate who can win a general election? I personally just want a Dem in office, I DO NOT want "more war" McCain. Can't we just admit that we have 2 great candidates?
Marge @ 39:
Also... britney spears would still get it.
What happens to Edward's pledged delegates?
John - You would be wrong - I am not a Hillary supporter but I do agree that we need a Democrat in office. Actually , I don't read Huff Post very often but I have been checking it out lately and I do see a lot of irrational bias there. I think the Democratic Party did We the People no service this year. I was hoping for a real progressive and they were determined to give us our "first" for the horserace. I also was not happy with Bill but what he said was distorted to some degree and was repeated ad nauseum but when Michelle or Barack say less than gracious things it is not. They have been given a free ride and I hope we don't wind up with a pig in a poke. We've had that for eight long years.
Buchanan not an insider? Richard fucking Nixon who did he write speaches for??
What is the point of voting?
Fanon:
NJ was not even close. NJ was predicted by all but the MSM to go to Hillary and it did. Menendez knew that. Debate me all you want but HRC's win was not a surprise by any means.
this is probably the worst-moderated conversation i've ever seen. abrams needs to lay down the law a little
crowdpleaser
Ignore the point I was making. It is beside the point whether or not he knew or whether or not NJ was close or not close. The point is he didn't care what his constituents wanted. If they had gone Obama he still would have gone HRC.
John - Again, I am not a Hillary supporter. And I'm not real sure that either one of them can beat McCrazy in a general against the Republican Machine and the voting machines. That is why I wanted a candidate this time around that would not bring out all the prejudices whether it be sexism or racism. We would all love to believe that we live in an enlightened country where those things have been settled and we have an educated electorate. We Don't! I have just observed that Obama supporters have a real nasty streak and most on the blogs are following Barack & Michelle's lead and not commiting to vote for Hillary if she is the nominee. This does not seem to be the case with Hillary supporters. These are just my observations and I'm not asking that you agree with them, just consider them.
Fanon
I am disgusted by the whole delegate scheme. Whether super delegates or regular delegates, let the popular vote determine the nominee. If the US followed that approach and ditched the anachronistic electoral college, Gore would be finishing his second term and think of how better the USA would have been.
crowdpleaser
Every time I think of Gore and what could have been I just get sick with grief for my country. Our election system is so screwed up and so vulnerable to misuse and corruption that I don't think we can ever put our faith in it and expect clean elections again.
Liberal AND Proud @ 83:
That is such bullshit. The corrupt conservatives and their idiotic supporters will spin that any candidate that the dems put out will energize their base to vote. Even with (in their eyes) the perfect wingnut candidate with Bush in 2004 he barely eked out a win --- and had to resort to the slimiest of tactics via his Ohio campaign manger and Secretary of State whatshisname. So spare us the "repukes will be energized" rhetoric. That is just spin.
Either HRC or Obama are acceptable. Frankly I look forward to a unity ticket and hope they have already agreed to this.
Neocon @ 128:
That's some real wishful thinking going on there. I don't think that will happen.
"The reason is pretty straightforward: "
I was surprised to read that cuz as an outside observer, that phrase, and anything like it, doesn't apply to anything even remotely connected to the American electoral process.
You kids gotta push for a MAJOR overhaul of an overly, unnecessarily, and easily corrupted, process and look around the globe for alternatives.
After all the 'voice of the people' is the basis of democracy and if the means of expressing that mutes their voice, or tapes tehir mouth shut, you jes' ain't got a democracy of any fashion.
just an observation.
ConcernedCanuck @ 5:
What Dean actually said was that he wants Obama and Clinton to reach some sort of deal between the two of them, because the Democrats cannot afford a brokered convention in the face of a Republican Party united behind its candidate. As the leader of the DNC, he wants to see if he and the party can broker something between them, since they have about 50/50 support, and that doesn't appear to be about to change.
Melina @ 92:
It won't necessarily be purely about the popular vote. It will be about finding a way to unite all Democrats behind a ticket.
moondancer @ 36:
I had been posting on several threads that I am worried about the way things are playing out. McCain's resurgence (the wacko-wing opposition to it notwithstanding) will be aided by the likes of Chris Matthews, while the bickering and infighting between Obama and Clinton will be exaggerated, if not openly encouraged, by the media. If half the party is bitter and angry going into the convention, they'll be bitter and angry coming out of it too. Such does not bode well for us in November. Republicans' fucking up the world is inevitable when they are in power, but subsequent Democratic victories are not, no matter how badly the Republicans rape the country.
Whether one agrees to bite the bullet and be the VeeP, or agrees to a position in the other's cabinet, something needs to be worked out.
Interestingly enough, it probably would have been better for the party if the "less viable" candidates stayed in the race. Either Clinton or Obama would have emerged from Super Tuesday with a clear plurality. The one who didn't would then slowly and calmly have resigned him-/herself to backing the other.
Close your eyes and listen to Craig Crawford ...
He sounds like Mr. Furley (Don Knotts) from Three's Company.
"The reason is pretty straightforward: Obama has a slight edge in pledged delegates (Dems who vote in primaries and caucuses), while Clinton has a slight edge in superdelegates (lawmakers, governors, DNC members, establishment types)." If this is the case, then why does CNN have Clinton with 840 pledged delegates and Obama with only 831 pledged delegates? Clinton is ahead in pledged delegates at this moment as well as when you add the super delegates in. What is it with everyone in the media, whether it is in the blogs or in the mainstream media? Why do you all hate this woman so?
Will you print a retraction regarding the pledged delegates?
Bill Hicks was a Super-delegate.
Brian @ 9:
You are spot on with that post. I really dislike watching those kind of discussions. And, it does not matter whether it is a panel, which shares my opinions, trashing the party opposite. It is like a sporting event with officiating that is clearly favoring one team over another. I do not want 'my' team on the loosing side of the calls. However, I do not want the other team to be there either. It should be a fair, honest contest.
Abrams needs to chill a little and watch a couple interviewing professionals. Bill Moyers and Larry King might be good starts. I have not watched him 'live', as I seldom watch television. So, my history with him is recent. So far, he seems to track as a liberal progressive. If true, great, that is where my loyalties lie. But, he needs to realize, when you invite a guest to a discussion, people probably want to hear that person's comments and opinions. Otherwise, he should be a columnist, and use that as the proper format to pontificate.
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