Slip-Up Undermines White House Case Against Child Soldier
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Feb 06, 2008 8:36am(guest posted by Rachel Perrone, ACLU. Cross-posted at the ACLUblog)
Hina Shamsi gives an extraordinary account of yesterday's military commission hearing against Omar Khadr in Daily Kos. (For background on Khadr's case, see yesterday's post.)
Once again, the government has messed up, and is scrambling to cover its tracks:
Later in the day, a secret government document, disclosed by mistake, cast doubt on the very basis for the Bush administration's case against Khadr…
The significance of the document was made clear by Khadr's military defense counsel, Lt. Cmdr. William Kuebler. Asked to describe it later in the day, Lt. Cmdr. Kuebler said it dispelled what he referred to as a myth propagated by the government: that Khadr was the only person who could have lobbed the grenade that killed U.S. soldier Christopher Speer — the basis of the most serious charge against him. The document, created in 2004, turned out to be an interview of a witness to Khadr's capture. In it, the witness describes finding two people alive in the Afghan compound in which Khadr was captured — the witness shot and killed the first man before he saw Khadr. Then, according to Lt. Cmdr. Kuebler, Khadr, who was 15 years old at the time, "was shot on sight — in the back — twice — while wounded, sitting and leaning against a wall facing away from his attackers."
Military Commission officials tried to demand the document back from reporters, threatening their access to future proceedings if they didn't cooperate. Finally officials agreed to let the press report on the document, as long as certain details weren't disclosed.
The accidental release of this document also points to the extreme secrecy the government uses in its prosecutions through overclassifying evidence. The defense can only see the evidence the government chooses to release — giving an inherently unfair advantage to the government's case.
In other torture news, ACLU of Northern California Executive Director Maya Harris authored an op-ed for the Sacramento Bee today about today's hearing in San Jose in our extraordinary rendition case against Boeing subsidiary Jeppesen Dataplan. Maya discusses the Bush administration's abuse of the "state secrets" privilege, and how it shouldn’t be allowed to use this argument in its effort to dismiss the case.
Finally, for those of you who can't get enough of polls, we have a new one that has nothing to do with the candidates running for president. This survey of 1,000 likely voters (.pdf) in the upcoming election cycle has to do with the destruction of the CIA torture tapes.
In short:
* 61% of Americans polled believe an independent prosecutor, not the Justice Department, should conduct the investigation into the destruction of the CIA torture tapes
* 63% of Americans polled believe there should be an investigation into whether high-level White House or Justice Department officials illegally ordered or authorized the CIA to waterboard prisoners.
* 66% of Americans polled agree that if President Bush, Vice President Cheney or any other White House official gave the order to destroy the tapes either directly or through one of their subordinates, it would warrant a criminal investigation
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But I betcha 90% of elected representatives could care less how the Americans polled feel. What a sad world when the people elected to serve, give ya the finger continually.
Shooting wounded kids in the back, while they are sitting (and likely crying), and then covering it up by bringing charges against him.
And I can't say I am surprised anymore.
I want to know what the hell Conyers and Leahy are waiting on. And I don't want to see any more letters sent to these gasbags, either.
Time to put up or shut up and get the hell out of the way, Congress!
Right off the bat the first thing that jumps out is the word "witness". There is no name for this witness but apparently he/she was there so that person's claim has to taken as the gospel by the military. No investigation needed right? Wrong. Hell, why don't they really make themselves look like fools and claim that "some dude" told them this who apparently got it from his brother.
Next, if this kid was a combatant of sorts then why did he not kill the "witness" as soon as he/she entered the compound. The kid apparently had enough time to do it but instead, he let the witness shoot the first man and then let the witness shoot him in the back, twice. The military's case does not hold water.
Two thirds of the Nation (2/3's) feel that the government has gone absolutely wrong.
Two thirds are against the War.
Two thirds think the system of Laws is broken in America.
The 33%'rs (mostly Evangelicals and other sheep-like groups) believe bush, cheney and even rumsfeld (when he was still onboard), people who can't seem to think for themselves but make a lot of noise anyway and call themselves Patriots, are stealing away America's greatness.
So according to the govt, any child suspected of doing anything against the troops will be considered a terrorist, whether they actually did anything or not and no matter how young the child is at the time.
This govt. has taken us to a lower level than I ever thought the USA would reach. Heartless and evil seems to be the motto now.
Not only are they dangerously secretive, they are inept to boot. Even more dangerous, in my opinion.
In case you think this is new or was unpredictable, check out the film "In the Name of the Father" about what happened in the seventies to innocent people in the UK's "War on Terror".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107207/
Re: CIA tapes
There just is ZERO accountability in our government. I remembered when I served in the military in the 1980's. Back then if one sneezed wrong they were sent to the brig or to Leavenworth. Today, there are MAJOR BREACHES OF SECURITY and WORSE and NO ONE is held accountable. Taking impeachment off the table just proves how unaccountable our government has become.
On an unrelated note. I have PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF of why McCain does NOT represent change for the American people.
BURN THIS IMAGE into your heads and recall it everytime "the maverick" tries to claim he somehow represents change:
The "Maverick" represents change?
By the way, a witness is usually someone that had seen something and then reported it. Moreover, they usually tend not to be involved in what they saw. This "witness" though is in fact the killer as he/she was the one that killed those two people. Another word for witness in this case is murderer.
Hey, we're bringing freedom and democracy to the Middle East. If we have to gun down children, well, that's the price of freedom. It's all heartbreaking now, but once those people over there taste a Starbucks latte grande, they'll get big ol' smiles on their faces.
Logically, what the US has done to Afghanistan and Iraq and their people, would it not be fair or just, if those citizens did the same thing back somehow? I mean, the US has bombed Baghdad and Kabul (two examples). Would it not be fair or just if bombs went off in Washington blowing up the WhiteHouse? Why or why not?
A Plea To The Left Blogosphere For Aid Help For The Mid-South...
Joe O. @ 9:
In this case your right, if the guy is a witness and then kills or attempts to kill the remaining people who were there by shooting them in the back, then witness is the wrong word.
ConcernedCanuck @ 11:
Fairness has nothing to do with it if you deem yourself superior to all other human beings. Sadly we seem to believe that our own safety is more important than that of any other group of people. Invade, kill, bomb and then try to justify your actions. That's what this govt is doing.
If we were to apply the military's justice system like the one being displayed in this case then every killer in the United States would be walking free today. Here is an example:
Judge: Did you see anything that would have led you to believe that those men that you killed were a threat to you Mr. Dahmer?
Jeffery Dahmer: Yes your honor. They threated to do me harm so I had to kill them and then eat them.
Judge: Sounds great to me! The witness (Dahmer) is excused.
Joe O. @ 9:
The "witness" only killed one of them. If Khadr had also died, then none of this would be happening.
The saddest thing is, these atrocities will go unpunished regardless of the outcome in November. If the Republicans win (hey, there's still Diebold, so don't count them out) they will rally to protect criminals in their own party. If the Democrats win they will ignore it because they have already won, and won't have any political reason to pursue this.
They're all traitors, who have violated the oaths they swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Maher Arar
Omar Kadr
David Hicks
All citizens of countries who are allies in the war on terror. When are Canada and Australia going to withdraw their troops (at the very least - I would advocate they cut off diplomatic relations altogether) in protest?
pissed off patricia @ 14:
The blatant hypocrisy and double-edged sword is staggering. Just starting as far back as Raygun, how many people in how many countries have been killed by US military, or US military backed regimes? Yet 911 was somehow atrocious and changed everything? Strange days indeed.
* 66% of Americans polled agree that if President Bush, Vice President Cheney or any other White House official gave the order to destroy the tapes either directly or through one of their subordinates, it would warrant a criminal investigation.....
Gee, is that the only reason?? The list is INFINITE as to reasons to conduct criminal investigations against Cheney and Bush. It won't happen. It desperately needs to. These guys are going walk away, collect their tidy little Government pensions...laughing all the way to the bank. They took this country for a ride which it might never find it's way back from. Can you imagine what the next President will do because Cheney and Bush didn't get the smack down? Two words...dangerous precedent.
IMPEACH & CONVICT! nothing more to debate. nothing more to say!
I M P E A C H - & - C O N V I C T !
As long as Americans remain passively accepting of everything nasty done in their name nothing will change for the better. It will however, be remembered in future when the next fascist, more Hitler-like perhaps(?), looks at these times as a sure pathway to success. This administrations template for successful bullying of an entire population will be re-enacted only bolder in future. Why not, it works.
Nobody is punished, nobody is guilty, everybody rides off into the sunset free and clear, with government pensions and corporate rewards galore. So what is the downside for the fascist? Bad polling numbers! Good luck America. Because you don't learn from history it will be repeated...only more terrifying next time. There will be a next time. Why not? Basically we all went along didn't we?
SadButTrue @ 17:
Bushlite, er Stephen Harper, is willling to use this to bring up a non-confidence vote and bring on an election. If we had any opposing party leaders worth voting for, it would be the end of Harper's rule, but alas, we are like the US. Watered down leaders with no substance.
JTM @ 16:
That is true. If Khadr had died then this case never would have been reported because the "witness" would have just left the scene and not said a word. The other two men if both had died, well, everyone knows, dead men tell no tales.
I'm not sure what's going to happen in the next 10 months...false flag attack, or if the government is simply going to turn a blind eye, now and forever to the crimes committed by this Administration. The shit runs deep, and the fact is, everyone is dirty...either by complicity or in their failure to act.
What a freakin' mess these jerkoffs have made.
The Political Junkie @ 3:
That's EXACTLY what they want. They want us to STOP writing and screaming. They're fighting a war of attrition and counting on short attention span, frustration and disgust to simply drive us away.
Liberal AND Proud @ 24:
Whoever did 9/11, conspiracy or not, must be smiling. They've gotten away with it, and now the entire world knows if you have the right connections, American soil is not a no-bomb zone.
I'm willing to bet that this was not accidently not censored.
Honest, honorable people are starting to stage their own little revolts against this dishonorable administration.
Lee @ 27:
There are people out there, in the know, in the establishment, that may actually be having trouble sleeping at night.
Lee @ 27:
I thought the same thing. It seems to be happening too often to be just mistakes.
If you think shrub co. is doing anything except rounding up brown people who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and putting them in jail so they can pretend they're catching 'terrorists' then you're delusional.
I hope as others have previously said here that there are those in the military trying to stop this ongoing and pervasive injustice.
Jan.9 2009 will not come soon enough. And even when it does... will we ever be free of this horror?
Re: the polling data: 35-40% of those polled are retards. America gets what America deserves.
ConcernedCanuck @ 26:
While I'm not sure what I believe regarding the attacks on NY I do believe that the current administration is evil enough to have been complicit in it. They may not have planned it but they probably knew about it and let it happen because cheney and pals saw it as an opportunity.
SadButTrue @ 17:
Well, the Government Commission on the Maher Arar case recommended that Canada withold intelligence from countries that have "questionable human rights".
And recently, a training manual for Canadian diplomats included a chapter on knowing when and dealing with a citizen has been tortured in the U.S. and Syria among other torturing nations.
Of course, the Harper gov't backed down when the latter info was leaked to the press instead of standing firm on human rights.
.
.
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This young man should serve his sentence in Canada, as he is actually Canadian citizen. To put it bold and simple, this would mean: no death penalty
Everyone either has kids or knows kids. How do you look them in the eye...and tell them fairy tales about America...fairy tales that MAYBE...JUST MAYBE...had some credence in the past, but are complete lies now.
Look what we've allowed ourselves to become...a rogue nation with no regard for human rights, disregard of the law...divine, world and even our own...baby killers...torturers...we ignore any rules of engagement in battle (puleeeease don't give me the "we're fighting a different kind of enemy argument"), destroy civilian targets, invade countries without provocation, and are now disliked at best by all (including our allies) and despised by the rest.
A Reuters article has some additional information on this:
Finding a gun "near" the body and using that as justification for the killing (sound familiar?) And Khadr was shot in the back, and then accused as the being the person who threw the grenade that killed an Army solider. In a fire-fight that occurred after after an aerial bombing.
Accepting that this unidentified witness had an unusual high degree of detachment to remember such detail from a fire-fight. And that Khadr did do what he was accused. Are we going to hold 15 year-olds accountable for such actions?
According to a U.S. prosecutor in this case; yes:
So what next. We going to start justifying baby killing?
Thing Fish @ 36:
The New York Times reports this morning that according to recently declassified documents, the federal judge overseeing the case of Abu Zubayday was still seeking CIA tapes of his interrogation even as the government had the recordings destroyed:
At the time that the Central Intelligence Agency destroyed videotapes of the interrogations of operatives of Al Qaeda, a federal judge was still seeking information from Bush administration lawyers about the interrogation of one of those operatives, Abu Zubaydah, according to court documents made public on Wednesday.
The court documents, filed in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, appear to contradict a statement last December by Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the C.I.A. director, that when the tapes were destroyed in November 2005 they had no relevance to any court proceeding, including Mr. Moussaoui's criminal trial.
[deleted--do not advocate violence against anyone on this site]
I don't want him back in Canada, stay away.
He trained with his brothers in camps by the order of his dumb ass father, not much redeemable qualities from this family...... stay away from Canada.
Fil @ 39:
Next up, trolls will be going "You damn librawls hate our brave American soldiers!"
"Once again, the government has messed up" that phrase is starting to sound more and more familar and be more and more common.
There can't only be good people in America nowadays, and unfortunately a lot of the news covers bad things.
"So what next. We going to start justifying baby killing?"
Oh you're referring to Enhanced Infantile Deaccessioning?
GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT), who endorsed Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) for president, will be disqualified as a superdelegate at the Democratic convention “under what is informally known as the Zell Miller rule.” In 2004, Miller — then a Democratic senator from Georgia — attacked Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) in a speech at the Republican National Convention. The DNC “responded with a rule disqualifying any Democrat who crosses the aisle from being a super delegate.” (HT: Firedoglake)
Miley Cyrus @ 42:
The news doesn't cover much of what the bad guys are doing.
Example: This administration and the republican congress.
A poll showing 66% of voters wanting accountability if Bush & Cheney were behind the destruction order for tapes is irrelevant, as Congress will simply sit on their worthless behinds and do nothing.
Thing Fish @ 40:
I'm actually Liberal, but I have no remorse for the Khadr family. Their Egyptian born father decided to bring his Canadian born sons to Afghanistan for Summer Camp and then they were caught in post 9-11 intervention sanctionned by the UN to get rid of the Taliban.
They engaged in a fire fight against US troops. Then you will say that they were just defending themslevles.... BS.
They are not Afghans by the way, Egypt is a little far far away from Afghanistan.
Norse @ 2:
Me neither but then every guerrilla army in the world recruits children because they are natural born killers. If you can get them young enough it is astonishing how brutal they can be. This young man was part of a family that lived in Osama bin Laden's compound and were his trusted acolytes. I don't suppose you can blame this young man for the way he was raised and I doubt if Gitmo treatment is helping at all. What could he have known that was of value? Still he could hardly be described as innocent.
Fil @ 47:
Afghanistan was another in a long list of "terrorist camp" lies from Western governments the world over. Who better to blame? Why not kill some more Afghans cuz hey they got nothing of value to give to the world anyway except those opium crops, and hey, the CIA already has those. I don't believe any of that political terror spin on any of those nations, including Afghanistan. Killing millions of people makes you a bigger terrorist in my view.
Emo @ 41:
A country is a reflection of its leadership. GW Bush has impregnated all levels of government with his Yale educated management style, obsession with detail and plain old superior smarts.
Lovely country you got there.
Glad I left.
ConcernedCanuck @ 49:
sorry that you do not know how to read... the Khadrs are not Afghan. Egpytina born patriach with Canadian born sons.... not very Afghan about them.
Canada does not want you back
Fil @ 47:
Tell me where did I say they were defending themselves? Or claim they were Afghanistan?
As you noted above. The father took Khadr to Afghanistan. And you want the sins of the father to be passed on to the sons?... BS.
Sins of the father, eh Fil?
It doesn't matter what the American people want or say in polls. The Imperator is above the law during a time of war (although Congress never formally declared war) and can do anything he wants without fear or prosecution or a check on his powers. So sayeth Chimpus Maximus.
Fil @ 52:
He's Canadian and deserves to be here just as much as any other Canadian. Regardless of circumstance.
well his father did not have much love for Canada or Canadian values. Citezenship for his dad was just a means to facility his activities in fund raising.
Not much Maple Syrop flowing in them vains, is there. So many Canadians are not speaking out on his behalf because they know how un-Canadian that family was and dont want them back.
Even if he does come back to Canada, he will waste tax payer dollars of being in constant surveillance.
It seems like only yesterday the Swift Boat Veterans for Smears was up in arms and had all of the rightwing up in arms over the reported story that John Kerry shot a "Vietnamese boy in the back". That was a 'war crime' they all shrieked.
Now it seems, not so much.
Talk about moral relativists.
-GSD
The secrecy from the WH and it's many tentacles covers up dastardly deeds and incompetency of heroic proportions. It's my opinion that BushCheneyCondi will burn the White House to the ground before letting any of us see documentation on what they have been up to.
Liberal AND Proud @ 37:
Fil @ 57:
Children are not prosecuted in Canada, like the US is trying to prosecute them. I could care less what the MSM or the US politicians say about the father or his son. Most of what they speak is BS. Just like the hunt for Osama BinHiding is all a farce.
For all you death-penalty droolers:
The execution of individuals for crimes committed below age eighteen violates the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Congo, Iran, Nigeria, and the United States are the only countries known to have imposed the death penalty on juvenile offenders.
Good company, indeed.
frank bonas jr @ 60:
I am impressed that they fucked up and accidently gave the "secret document" to the reporters. They can not even do a cover-up properly.
Top priority: If you feel like you have the stomach for it, get on the phone and locate your registrar of voters. Then (if you meet the legal qualifications), go there and find out the deadline and rules for filing to run as an Independent for either The House of Representatives or The U.S. Senate. There will be about 435 seats open in The House and a third of The Senate, about 33 seats, will be open for the November election.
What ever you need to do to file, do it. Then suit up and show up for every debate, luncheon and talk about The Constitution. Have car washes, bake sales, cocktail parties whatever you can think of to raise money for one good mailing in your district/state. Buy copies of The Constitution in bulk and give them away at events for a "donation".
If Jessie Ventura could run as an Independent in Minnesota and win by pulling enough votes from both parties, we can do the same in every district.
We need to fight for the Constitution and the fight needs to be taken into the public and off these pages.
Just take the first step. Today. Call and get the information. Please.
Liberal AND Proud @ 63:
waterboarding for jesus @ 64:
Knowing how documents classified as secret are handled, that "accidentally" may have been more "accidentally (wink-wink)".
Not everybody in the service are mindless automatons. (Though "mindless" does apply to many REMF.)
Geraldo @ 62:
Does that make us part of the "rectangle of evil"?
"* 66% of Americans polled agree that if President Bush, Vice President Cheney or any other White House official gave the order to destroy the tapes either directly or through one of their subordinates, it would warrant a criminal investigation "
Sounds like one more impeachment charge ( I only mention it to give Paul something to get started about)
How the heck do you shoot someone in the back when they are sitting down and leaning against a wall? And twice, no less?
QUESTION: Can bush be brought up on charges after he leaves office????
I am now officially ashamed to call myself an American. This makes me sick. Will someone please convict these cock-suckers of war crimes and put them in jail already!!??!! If ANYONE says that BushCo. did a good job while in office they need to be shot in site. This is fucknig insane. No wonder they flew planes into the WTC. We ask for it with shit like this.
Bush = fuckstick
Impeach & Convict.
crushburger higganbotham @ 70:
Very good question.
What happens in Afghanistan stays in Afghanistan?
Beam Me Up Scottie...Please! @ 72:
No doubt.
I was just about to write something similar.
By the way, to any Malkinites who may be stopping by, this does not say that the US deserved the attacks of September 11, 2001. This says that you reap what you sow.
Fil @ 47:
Fifteen years old, you "liberal" dolt.
With each new story of boooosh's fascism I learn to appreciate my membership with the ACLU.
Marco
To paraphrase the Domina ... DIE SCREAMING america, DIE SCREAMING!!
While you're tossing figures around, 99% of the American people agree that we should torture people to get information according to Lamar S Smith, ranking member of the Judiciary Committee.
As other Forgien children read how Americans rape, torture, murder and in prison innocent men/woman/children they will grow up and do the same to the USA. Bush/Cheney have become worse then Saddam and more like Hitler. We have no Justice System/Values/Morals or Reglious beliefs in this country anymore just lip service and crimes. Even our troops are writing books on how they out right murdered Iraqis for no reason but to kill. We even kill our own soldiers like in the case of Pat Tillman, as the Generals in charge say under oath it wasn't their job to look into the murder. Gates is only interested iin getting money for Iraq not the troops. Bush black mails Govement workers for money for Iraq. McCain can't make it to vote for Americans rebate checks because he's to busy to do the job of a Senator. We turned into the enemy were talked about and the Worlds sees the US as liars. God can't bless American because Satan is in the White House.
Old Billy @ 74:
Thank you for finnishing that thought up for me.
nordic kossor @ 34:
Are you retarded, or can you just not read. HE SHOULDN't BE SERVING ANYTHING!!! He was a kid when all of this happened.
I bet you think BushCo. is doing a good job too.....
Moron
Ignoring the child soldier part... did he do anything "illegal" in the course of warfare? I don't recall troops of past wars being put on trial for merely participating in combat.
You're right on all accounts. We are screwed and we can't even see it yet.
Unfortunately, this stinks on all sides and accounts. We are in a war we shouldn't be in. Our soldiers are not allowed to dish out the same hell they receive without being persecuted. Has anyone even seen the American beheading videos, Iraqi sniping American soldiers videos, etc. besides me? When we are allowed to give it as much as we are supposed to bend over and take it, then justice may equal out.
Of course, this would all be a moot point if we would have just kept our asses out in the first place.
Here is a kid - a terrorist? Maybe, maybe not, we really don't know. American Soldiers in Vietnam saw kids daily killing our men. Why should this be any different?
Why the F*CK did people vote for Bush in the first place?? Oh yeah, America is 90% sheep. Hell, I voted for him - the first time.
My thoughts ramble, I apologize. Just too many stupidities happening in todays world to be able to stay on track.
End of rant.
So the reporting witness shot the kid in the back, twice?
GREAT Future in store for this troop when he musters out with the Metropolitan Las Vegas Sjeriff's Dept, although they prefer that, before they shoot you in the back, you have a dangerous weapon like a basketball in your hands.
Too bad he couldn't have been Taser'd first...
and 0% of Congress and the Bush Administration believe anyone should look in to or care about the CIA torture tapes. That way the whole thing will be forgotten really quick, just like the 5000 other BushCo scandals.
I, too, am ashamed of this country. Not only that this has happened, but that in this and countless other cases, there will be no consequences for the war criminals.
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