That's OK they have a cure for Autism now. Some people are even taking the drug recreationally cause it helps them concentrate and shout out the outside world.

Problem solved!

Next topic?

Shut out. Not shout.

This is the problem with many people in today's world. There are no facts, only opinions. It could be that McCain is simply misinformed - lots of people are - but let's watch to see if anybody in the MSM picks this up and asks him about it again.

It was the vaccine preservatives that brought down building 7? Shit we solved two problems!

McCain's "Reagan moments" are getting deeper and more frequent.

He is a very frightening man.

burnt @ 2:

the rise in autism cases is due to over-eager teachers, psychiatrists and doctors with a vested interest in prescribing as many kids as possible with medication and clinical visits, for as long as possible. the rise in autism is a rise in false positives. the rise in autism is due to the pharmaceutical-industrial complex that nobody wants to admit is alive and well.

and wtf are we taking msm and physicians with a vested interest in positive PR for pharma companies at their word that the levels of mercury in vaccines are "safe".

sorry C&L - I'm not a McCain fan, but I find myself agreeing with the man here. you tsk'ing him is not unlike FOX reporting tsk'ing your viewership question what "really" brought building 7 down. - but Popular Mechanics debunked it! =\

as per your blogname, your brain is also.

This site would do well to "look at the science" and question the science backingup the government and vaccine manufacturers claims. It is wrought with conflicts of interest.

The government just concede a case in the Vaccine Court. There are ~4.900 pending.

http://io9.com/349956/one-pill-makes-you-autistic-++-and-one-pill-change...

Oh here's the link to the article on the autism drug.

Maybe McCain could take it in front of a crowd of supporters while being waterboarded to show them both are A' OK.

the rise in autism cases is due to over-eager teachers, psychiatrists and doctors with a vested interest in prescribing as many kids as possible with medication and clinical visits, for as long as possible. the rise in autism is a rise in false positives. the rise in autism is due to the pharmaceutical-industrial complex that nobody wants to admit is alive and well.

With all respect, that is a pack of horse shit. My niece is autistic, my neighbor's son has Asperger's, and I work with autisitc kids at my school all day. Spend a day with us, and get a clue.

You don't know what you're talking about, other than you might be more accurately talking about ADHD.

As for McCain, as dumb as he is, I think the jury might still be out on the vaccine angle.

Soory about the spelling there. I was pissed off a bit...

I don't think you can pile on on this one. IIRC, that thimerosal study is still fairly fresh. That McCain wouldn't have known about the study doesn't surprise me at all.

And, maybe the question was *GASP* not pre-screened! Not that I'd vote for McCain, but a break from recent Republican tradition would be...refreshing!

There was just a recent case where the gov settled with the parents of a little girl who was fine until she received the six or so infant immunizations. She became manic and then autistic. By the way the Amish have a no autism in their community and they do not immunize.

You can read the details of the lawsuit here

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.immunology/browse_thread/thread/9...

curtilingus @ 1:

That's OK they have a cure for Autism now. Some people are even taking the drug recreationally cause it helps them concentrate and shout out the outside world.

Problem solved!

Next topic?

I think you are confusing ADHD with Autism. Unless you are being sarcastic and I am missing it?

my friends.
as stated somewhere above, yes, he is VERY dangerous.
my friends.

It's too bad people choose to politicize this issue. John McCain included.

STEVE you should really look at this issue deeper.

Explain to me again Senator McCain, how a sheep's bladder may be used to predict earthquakes.

curtilingus @ 24:

A vaccine against chicken pox! let the kid's have the disease. It's rarely fatal and it builds character. Shit it may even have a purpose we don't understand.

[Emphasis added.]

Yeah, it's a warning that if you live close enough to another species for long enough, you share viruses with them. And it can be uncomfortable and/or deadly to do so.

steve you really should do some research.

JDS
While it's true that the Amish have a low autism rate, it's not true that they have none. Plus, people often think that 'autism' is the extreme example usually used (no, or little, connection to the outside world). Autism actually covers a whole host of behaviors and diability. Kids that would have been considered "different" when we were growing up may have actually fallen along the autistic spectrum. The increase in diagnoses is the development of better identification of these 'different' kids. The Amish may be more tolerant of different behavior in their community than the mainstream and may only identify their extreme cases.

Does anyone know what the Eurpean's position is on this? I trust their judgement much better than ours. They dont prescribe anti depressants to children under 18 because it is unsafe and wrong. We prescribe them to children to grant the pharmaceutical companies as many customers as possible.

I would have respected McCain more if he had reflected a little bit and then responded that he didn't have enough information to comment. I don't expect politicians to be experts in everything. But, I sure don't expect them to jump into a controversy over which some experts are still in disagreement about.

A women in the article was quoted as saying they were "waiting for a responsible answer" and I guess the still are.

QuakerDave @ 17:

the rise in autism cases is due to over-eager teachers, psychiatrists and doctors with a vested interest in prescribing as many kids as possible with medication and clinical visits, for as long as possible. the rise in autism is a rise in false positives. the rise in autism is due to the pharmaceutical-industrial complex that nobody wants to admit is alive and well.

With all respect, that is a pack of horse shit. My niece is autistic, my neighbor's son has Asperger's, and I work with autisitc kids at my school all day. Spend a day with us, and get a clue.

You don't know what you're talking about, other than you might be more accurately talking about ADHD.

As for McCain, as dumb as he is, I think the jury might still be out on the vaccine angle.

Vaccines? Trust science? Yeah right! McCain is probably right on on this one. I wouldn't and didn't put a single vaccine in my children and neither have most of the people I know.... it's frightening what they put in there - bits of monkeys - who the frig knows? I don't trust the vaccines nor the pharmaceutical companies nor the scientists who spout their data - not one iota.

There's is a whole bunch of crazies who are convinced that vaccines are the cause of autism in their children. It doesn't matter that there is no evidence for it, these people have their emotions and their infallible paternal instincts screaming for a scapegoat.

It's all fine and dandy until enough people don't get their shots and screw it up for all of us.

Radically Moderate @ 37:

Thimerosal has not been in children vaccines for a couple of years and yet Autism continues to be a problem.
Perhaps it is time to look elsewhere for the cause?

Better update your source

several vaccines still have itfor preservative use (Flu shots, Some tetanus, Japanese Encephalitis)

thimerosal was removed for PRESERVATIVE use but still remains in residual from the manufacturing process

It is still being injected into kids.

As far as research on thimerasol compare toxiciology studies to the epidemiological ones used to justify it. Epidemiology looks at numbers and each of these studies have questionable data sets which "water down" the result.

dadams @ 4:

the current bush is delusional and lives in his own reality,
what are we to do mcfucked-up when his delusional mind
makes up some bullshit and he pushes the "mushroom"button
without cause.

we don't need another fucking irrational idiot in the whitehouse !

Just give him his mushrooms and change his bedpan?

#440, thanks! Mmmmmmmmm....shrooms...

;-}

The Smiths @ 22:

sent the post to the entire family..
...check out crooksandliars.com

Please pass on or forward to every expectant mom you know
or every parent dealing with an autistic child.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88...

Feb 28, 2008 08:35 AM PST
Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - mercury-containing vaccines
After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD),
the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.
Category: SCIENCE/HEALTH

As many patriotic nurses say - we need an FDA that protects people - not pharmaceutical corporations

Think I'll go with the Center for Disease Control on this one. Since Thimerosal was deleted as a preservative in 2001 there has been no reduction in the incidence of autism. Thimerosal was removed because internet rumors regarding it's effect was leading to reduced rates of immunization. http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm

McCain for the first time has said something I might agree with.

Mercury has this report card:
In water, 2ppb makes the water undrinkable.
In fish, 1000ppb makes the fish unedible.
In vaccines you get 50,000 ppb per jab.
If dropped on the floor, the vaccine becomes a hazardous waste
( >200ppb).

100 bucks from me cash for the first adult that is willing to take the equivalent adult dosage of mercury laced vaccines given to infants.

Mike @ 20:

Let's not forget that RFK Jr. was one of the strongest proponents of this whole thimerosal-autism conspiracy theory. I'm not sure if he's had anything to say recently since the data proved he was wrong.

I checked his web site and although he there is nothing new about thimerosal-autism he certainly has not taken down his 4 articles that claim a link between thimerosal and autism.

The need for thimerosol is to preserve vaccine material in a multi-use vial. It makes the distribution more cost effective (cheaper and thereby more profitable). If it were removed, vaccine makers would have to use something else or supply the vaccines in single-dose packaging. They get around the problem now by reducing the concentration to a level considered to be a "trace" amount, add a ton of aluminum as an adjuvant, and can thereby can claim that vaccines are "mercury free" when they are not.

Autism is of course a neurological disease and methyl mercury is a potent neurotoxin. So it's natural to draw a parallel. But thimerosol is only one of a wide range of other chemicals and genetically altered biologic material that is titred into the bloodstream. What is suggested by those who have followed this issue closely over the years is that the one size fits all vaccine policy in the US, one that does not at all take into account any genetic predisposition for adverse reaction, is partly to blame for such close tracking between vaccine rates and a broad spectrum of neurological disorders.

With the loss of the basic universal legal premise of "informed consent" I see further disaster to follow.

Inquiring minds might ask simply whether the potential risks inherent in all medical treatment (a vaccine is indeed a prophylactic medication) is offset by a far greater benefit. Looking carefully at the disease statistics that all of the vaccines are supposed to prevent might give one a clue. This is the secret truth: the vaccines are not necessary except to maintain resistance. But what happens when the bugs become resistant to the vaccines? Some scientists believe this is happening, just as it is with antibacterials.

Of course, there is the "herd immunity" argument and the other one that says "vaccines work". Both are indisputable. But what deserves scrutiny in the necessity for so many vaccines (I call them convenience drugs) delivered with a cookie-cutter policy.

It is difficult for the Physician to examine their own navel. It's even more difficult when vaccines are a huge profit-center for the medical-industrial complex. Of course, such examination will not happen in the current climate, but still I have to say it's long overdue. What's even more important is to not lose the doctrine of informed consent. When this goes - which basically says we no longer have control over what goes into our body - we're indeed screwed.

@ The Smiths

It still is being put into the formula. It can be found on the packaging label. If you want to be certain, you need to check the formula labels of the actual bottle to see what the preservatives are listed.

Proud2bHumble @ 48:

dadams @ 4:

the current bush is delusional and lives in his own reality,
what are we to do mcfucked-up when his delusional mind
makes up some bullshit and he pushes the "mushroom"button
without cause.

we don't need another fucking irrational idiot in the whitehouse !

Just give him his mushrooms and change his bedpan?

#440, thanks! Mmmmmmmmm....shrooms...

;-}

Portobello or blue ones? Time for a field trip to the frontal lobes.

Bald Face Lie @ 52:

McCain for the first time has said something I might agree with.

Mercury has this report card:
In water, 2ppb makes the water undrinkable.
In fish, 1000ppb makes the fish unedible.
In vaccines you get 50,000 ppb per jab.
If dropped on the floor, the vaccine becomes a hazardous waste
( >200ppb).

100 bucks from me cash for the first adult that is willing to take the equivalent adult dosage of mercury laced vaccines given to infants.

Link your garbage, please. A dropped immunization is considered toxic waste? Really, are we going to call inthe Hazmet team?

Nothing like a little extra mercury for developing young nervous systems, in any case! You can request mercury free vaccines, but they cost a little more. I wouldn't want my immune response perpetually diddled for the remainder of my life, but I had little choice as a child.

Peter G @ 30:

Explain to me again Senator McCain, how a sheep's bladder may be used to predict earthquakes.

McExplain writes back:
Well, my friend, it's not really the bladder; it's the stomach, and not just the stomach, but the heart, liver, lungs and other ingredients that make up a haggis, my friend. And my friend, it's not really the haggis, my friend, but the haggis is the precursor that requires the imbibing of large quantities, my friend, of Orkney Skullsplitter. It's not unusual, my friend, for the ground, my friend, to move violently upwards within one to two hours as a common conclusion, my friend, to the process, my friend, and unconsciousness often ensues shortly thereafter, my friend. My friend, I thought everyone knew this...my friend.

Dutch Delight @ 64:

curtilingus @ 24:

... I know we had some horrible diseases in the past but this is getting ridiculous and may have an adverse affect ... chicken pox! let the kid's have the disease. It's rarely fatal and it builds character ... purpose we don't understand.

Please tell this story to the parents loosing their kids to your character building excercise, oh and to the people ending up with permanent facial scars.

Perhaps nature designed this and other diseases as a way of controlling a population explosion........like the one we are experiencing. Living on a planet that is 70% water means the population can only get so big. Disease is supposed to kill off the weak. Playing God has caused more damn problems and different diseases and birth defects than what it has cured. Take the flu shot. Everyone I know that gets it, is sicker than I am every year.

SWoods @ 66:

Thank you Mark Richards for your information. If I had small children now I don't know what I would do about vaccinating them. Vaccinations were scary 20 years ago, now they are even worse!! I firmly believe that the vaccines are responsible for autism one way or another. It's a mothers instincts. And I cannot believe anyone here is even thinking about trusting the pharma industry to do the right thing when all they care about are profits?

probably because some posting are paid to troll for pharmica

Fanon @ 63:

Bald Face Lie @ 52:

McCain for the first time has said something I might agree with.

Mercury has this report card:
In water, 2ppb makes the water undrinkable.
In fish, 1000ppb makes the fish unedible.
In vaccines you get 50,000 ppb per jab.
If dropped on the floor, the vaccine becomes a hazardous waste
( >200ppb).

100 bucks from me cash for the first adult that is willing to take the equivalent adult dosage of mercury laced vaccines given to infants.

Link your garbage, please. A dropped immunization is considered toxic waste? Really, are we going to call inthe Hazmet team?

Doctor's Offices and medical labs treat it as HazardousMaterials just read the MSDS on thimerosal

Radically Moderate @ 58:

chewbacca @ 46:

Radically Moderate @ 37:

Thimerosal has not been in children vaccines for a couple of years and yet Autism continues to be a problem.
Perhaps it is time to look elsewhere for the cause?

Better update your source

several vaccines still have itfor preservative use (Flu shots, Some tetanus, Japanese Encephalitis)

thimerosal was removed for PRESERVATIVE use but still remains in residual from the manufacturing process

It is still being injected into kids.

As far as research on thimerasol compare toxiciology studies to the epidemiological ones used to justify it. Epidemiology looks at numbers and each of these studies have questionable data sets which "water down" the result.

You are correct about thimerosal in adult vaccines, but it has been removed from child vaccines.

CORRECTION

It's PRESERVATIVE use in childhood vaccines has been dropped but it is still left over from the manufacturing.

It hasnt been completely removed

ConcernedCanuck @ 72:

But remember "my friends", a vote for me is a vote for a McBiologist!!

Or is he, in this case, your friendly McPharmacist, consulting you on contraindicators?

And what ever became of McAbel? Just askin...

Andy K @ 70:

Proud2bHumble @ 67:

Peter G @ 30:

Explain to me again Senator McCain, how a sheep's bladder may be used to predict earthquakes.

McExplain writes back:
Well, my friend, it's not really the bladder; it's the stomach, and not just the stomach, but the heart, liver, lungs and other ingredients that make up a haggis, my friend. And my friend, it's not really the haggis, my friend, but the haggis is the precursor that requires the imbibing of large quantities, my friend, of Orkney Skullsplitter. It's not unusual, my friend, for the ground, my friend, to move violently upwards within one to two hours as a common conclusion, my friend, to the process, my friend, and unconsciousness often ensues shortly thereafter, my friend. My friend, I thought everyone knew this...my friend.

I really hope that you get a page for the McCain names that you can link to. I don't think the site will dig it much when you go all crazy with bandwidth concerns when you paste the entire list here. But it'll be a link worth following! ; )

I emailed John re that very concern last week, but I'm starting to think he may have missed it, so I'll try again. Right now I'm posting is late at nite on the Open Thread on Mondays and Thursdays so it's pretty much out of the way and posting links in to it in other threads. That reminds me...

chewbacca @ 75:

Radically Moderate @ 58:

chewbacca @ 46:

Radically Moderate @ 37:

Better update your source

several vaccines still have itfor preservative use (Flu shots, Some tetanus, Japanese Encephalitis)

thimerosal was removed for PRESERVATIVE use but still remains in residual from the manufacturing process

It is still being injected into kids.

As far as research on thimerasol compare toxiciology studies to the epidemiological ones used to justify it. Epidemiology looks at numbers and each of these studies have questionable data sets which "water down" the result.

You are correct about thimerosal in adult vaccines, but it has been removed from child vaccines.

CORRECTION

It's PRESERVATIVE use in childhood vaccines has been dropped but it is still left over from the manufacturing.

It hasnt been completely removed

But what's it matter when there are numerous studies that can't link thimerasol to autism...or anything else that anyone's speculating?

Proud2bHumble @ 79:

Andy K @ 70:

Proud2bHumble @ 67:

Peter G @ 30:

McExplain writes back:
Well, my friend, it's not really the bladder; it's the stomach, and not just the stomach, but the heart, liver, lungs and other ingredients that make up a haggis, my friend. And my friend, it's not really the haggis, my friend, but the haggis is the precursor that requires the imbibing of large quantities, my friend, of Orkney Skullsplitter. It's not unusual, my friend, for the ground, my friend, to move violently upwards within one to two hours as a common conclusion, my friend, to the process, my friend, and unconsciousness often ensues shortly thereafter, my friend. My friend, I thought everyone knew this...my friend.

I really hope that you get a page for the McCain names that you can link to. I don't think the site will dig it much when you go all crazy with bandwidth concerns when you paste the entire list here. But it'll be a link worth following! ; )

I emailed John re that very concern last week, but I'm starting to think he may have missed it, so I'll try again. Right now I'm posting is late at nite on the Open Thread on Mondays and Thursdays so it's pretty much out of the way and posting links in to it in other threads. That reminds me...

McBlindedByScience???????? Taken???

Proud2bHumble @ 79:

Andy K @ 70:

Proud2bHumble @ 67:

Peter G @ 30:

McExplain writes back:
Well, my friend, it's not really the bladder; it's the stomach, and not just the stomach, but the heart, liver, lungs and other ingredients that make up a haggis, my friend. And my friend, it's not really the haggis, my friend, but the haggis is the precursor that requires the imbibing of large quantities, my friend, of Orkney Skullsplitter. It's not unusual, my friend, for the ground, my friend, to move violently upwards within one to two hours as a common conclusion, my friend, to the process, my friend, and unconsciousness often ensues shortly thereafter, my friend. My friend, I thought everyone knew this...my friend.

I really hope that you get a page for the McCain names that you can link to. I don't think the site will dig it much when you go all crazy with bandwidth concerns when you paste the entire list here. But it'll be a link worth following! ; )

I emailed John re that very concern last week, but I'm starting to think he may have missed it, so I'll try again. Right now I'm posting is late at nite on the Open Thread on Mondays and Thursdays so it's pretty much out of the way and posting links in to it in other threads. That reminds me...

Get a MySpace(or, whatever) page, then link that page as your homepage. Add a tap dancin' Jesus or something and you'd have a helluva little site.

bt@84 and Neil @78

Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful posts.

McCain is definitely past his sell-by date.

Lynda from Australia @ 43:

Vaccines? Trust science? Yeah right! McCain is probably right on on this one. I wouldn't and didn't put a single vaccine in my children and neither have most of the people I know.... it's frightening what they put in there - bits of monkeys - who the frig knows? I don't trust the vaccines nor the pharmaceutical companies nor the scientists who spout their data - not one iota.

When I was a child, I received vaccines against polio and smallpox, and I heard stories of people who had suffered from polio. My grandparents live through the last flu pandemic. Vaccines wiped polio and smallpox off the planet; along with antibiotics, they're a big reason that average lifespans have increased so dramatically in the last century.

I don't trust the business people running big pharma, but every scientist I've met who works for big pharma has been humanitarian. Without big pharma, few with juvenile onset diabetes would live 10 years after diagnosis. There would be no benadryl and prednisone to fight anaphylaxis (I'd be dead). Infections would be deadly much more frequently.

If you don't want to vaccinate your own kids, you're putting them at risk.

Andy K @ 85:

Proud2bHumble @ 79:

Andy K @ 70:

Proud2bHumble @ 67:

I really hope that you get a page for the McCain names that you can link to. I don't think the site will dig it much when you go all crazy with bandwidth concerns when you paste the entire list here. But it'll be a link worth following! ; )

I emailed John re that very concern last week, but I'm starting to think he may have missed it, so I'll try again. Right now I'm posting is late at nite on the Open Thread on Mondays and Thursdays so it's pretty much out of the way and posting links in to it in other threads. That reminds me...

Get a MySpace(or, whatever) page, then link that page as your homepage. Add a tap dancin' Jesus or something and you'd have a helluva little site.

Thanks for the suggestion. Gonna try to communicate with John to see what he'd most prefer, but hadn't thought of the MS angle. ;-}

peaceful easy feeling @ 86:

Peter G @ 51:

Think I'll go with the Center for Disease Control on this one. Since Thimerosal was deleted as a preservative in 2001 there has been no reduction in the incidence of autism. Thimerosal was removed because internet rumors regarding it's effect was leading to reduced rates of immunization. http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm

Good call. All too often blog posts only tell half the story.

Other than that little swipe at C&L, what do you like about the site?

Wow, this sure brings out the nutters.

As to my prediction, the allpowerfull mommy-instinct has trumped actual evidence in this thread already. Complete with testimonies, from people who i'm sure are medical professionals, about the symptoms all magically starting right after a few shots, brilliant stuff. I'm sure these people knew all the telltale signs for autism in infants and were looking for them every minute before the diagnosis was even made.

And none of 'm ever look back at the mess they leave behind, causing panic over nothing to so many expecting mothers. And thats not even mentioning the actual pain and suffering this kind of uncritical BS can lead to.

Sorry--I did that wrong. I meant to quote the part on MSDS on thimerasol. My comment didn't begin until "You should read the MSDS on beach sand..."

Slaw @ 94:

chewbacca @ 73:

Doctor's Offices and medical labs treat it as HazardousMaterials just read the MSDS on thimerosal

You should read the MSDS on beach sand. If you take it out of a bottle in the lab, you're supposed to have full ventilator gear. I kid you not.

The entire current (as of Friday 12:01 am PST) McAKA List – alphabetized for easier reference:

McSeniormoment...let's try that again:

Andy K @ 102:

Proud2bHumble @ 101:

The entire current (as of Friday 12:01 am PST) McAKA List – alphabetized for easier reference:

Yeah...Homepage. That list is a monster...And it's only gonna get longer! Just add a nickname and...wish that worked with....nahhh!

Maybe, though.

"Don't encourage him." - 2b's mom

I'm looking forward to McCandidatebydefault's running mate...

For those of us that have experienced autism in our family first hand, McCain is right. Don't disagree just because you don't like his politics. I don't like his politics but there is scientific truth to what he says.

My son has autism.

For anyone to preach to me with regard to the causes of autism, I want to know a few things:

Are you a scientist?
Are you a chemist?
Are you an expert with regard to the blood brain barrier?
Do you work for big pharma?
Are you a pediatrician in the pocket of the medical lobby?
Have you ever gone, everyday, for 5 years, without a full nights sleep because your son wakes up 6 times a night?

These are just a few questions I have for you. I can come up with some more, but I'm self medicating right now with tequila.

To disregard the questions and concerns of parents who need help, is unconscionable.

We don't really know what caused our son's condition.

I want to know.

Tools like McCain want to keep me in the dark.

Fuck you, John McCain.

chewbacca @ 73:

Fanon @ 63:

Bald Face Lie @ 52:

McCain for the first time has said something I might agree with.

Mercury has this report card:
In water, 2ppb makes the water undrinkable.
In fish, 1000ppb makes the fish unedible.
In vaccines you get 50,000 ppb per jab.
If dropped on the floor, the vaccine becomes a hazardous waste
( >200ppb).

100 bucks from me cash for the first adult that is willing to take the equivalent adult dosage of mercury laced vaccines given to infants.

Link your garbage, please. A dropped immunization is considered toxic waste? Really, are we going to call inthe Hazmet team?

Doctor's Offices and medical labs treat it as HazardousMaterials just read the MSDS on thimerosal

It would take a large quantity of "spilled" vaccine to be
considered HAZWASTE. Most likely it would be be treated
as Medical Waste. You may need to go back and take the
8 hour HAZWASTE refresher course…

peaceful easy feeling @ 108:

Proud2bHumble @ 95:

Other than that little swipe at C&L, what do you like about the site?

Think again, my comment was in regards to David Kirby's post on HuffPo.

Other than that little swipe at me, did you have something to add to the discussion?

I asked you first - what do you like about C&L?

Richard @ 36:

This is not a Republican issue. The leading proponent of the mercury in vaccine causes autism theory is RFK Jr.

Yes, that's my understanding also.

Furysmom @ 104:

Quaker Dave, thanks for the work you do and for helping to clear things up.

Anyone who thinks that science has proved that mercury is NOT responsible for the rise in autism should look into the work Bill Frist did to gut the vaccine injury bill and to look closely at his relationship to Eli Libby.

I don't like McCain. I don't know the answers to why 1 in 166 children have autism. But, there are enough suspicious maneuverings and lots of history of bought scientific results, that I believe there could be a relationship and that we need a reinvestment in science, in education, in our country as a whole in order to find out the truth.

My apologies is any of this has already been said. Not enough time to work through all of the comments.

Do not look for scientific answers in court judgments or political maneuvers. Science stands on its own. The reason for seeking immunity for the effects vaccine injury is straightforward. Vaccine production is a low profitability business that most American pharmaceutical companies have abandoned because of liability. Yet it is essential. There will always be some adverse reactions even deaths caused by any vaccine. The net gains to the population at large outweigh the downside. That bill does not protect against negligence in the production,storage or transportation of vaccines but only against the relatively rare side effects that are not in the least predictable. It may be small comfort to a parent whose child is injured by a vaccination but thousands more were probably saved worse consequences by being vaccinated.

Slaw @ 91 "I don't trust the business people running big pharma, but every scientist I've met who works for big pharma has been humanitarian."

That hilariously misstates the problem of FOR PROFIT DRUGMAKING AND SELLING.

"Without big pharma, few with juvenile onset diabetes would live 10 years after diagnosis."

The development of insulin for such illnesses is VASTLY different from the experimental drug classes we are talking about.

"There would be no benadryl and prednisone to fight anaphylaxis (I'd be dead). Infections would be deadly much more frequently."

Benadryl, or any ephedrine, is nothing but a Chinese drug in use for 2,000 years plus, turned into a synthetic. Prednisone, or any steroid anti-inflammatory agent, is HEAVILY OVERPRESCRIBED today, and causes a whole range of deadly illnesses.

Antibiotic overuse AS A RESULT OF PROFIT-BASED DRUGGING has led to very serious immunity weaknesses leading to a higher death rate, expecially in hospitals.

"If you don't want to vaccinate your own kids, you're putting them at risk."

If you want to trust profiteers when making medical decisions, then you are definitely at risk already. For Profit advertizing, and bribing of doctors, are major healthcare risks you prefer to ignore.

Ilena Rose @ 106:

This is the only issue I know of that I back McCain's comments ... and find C & L believing the industry propaganda.

Steve ... I love your work, but this once you're off base.

There are few medical issues with as much money and power behind it as the Vaccination Industry ... they have layers deep and wide of PR (media) people continuing to coverup the dangers of vaccinations.

The human race thrived for many, many generations without the 'help' of vaccinations ...

There are probably no drugs so widely marketed as these ... and so profitable ... and with as much propaganda being cranked out regularly.

Please here read what a recent court decision wrote ... and how the industry tried to bury this case with a 'gag' order.

Click here for one of the centers of the Disinformation Team on the internet.

The human race thrived for many, many generations without the 'help' of vaccinations ...

Uh-huh...
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/influenza-epidemic/
World War I claimed an estimated 16 million lives. The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people. One fifth of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history.

The younger of my two sons is autistic.

My wife and I at one time believed that the vaccines might have been the cause of his autism.

But he displayed some of the characteristics of autism from birth and wre are not sure what may have caused it. Fortunately, we were able to get some help for him fairly early as far as his communication skills go. He communicates on a first or second grade level now while in his early teens.

Most people have NO understanding of autism and what it is like to deal with it on a daily basis.

Regarding this oft repeated comment:

Typical industry PR:
"Thimerosal was deleted as a preservative in 2001 there has been no reduction in the incidence of autism."

Tho true that it was mandated to remove thimerosal (mercury) from many vaccinations in 2001 ... that was merely the date of stopping it's use in the United States in manufacturing. It took a few more years to get all of this off the shelfs (and into the bodies of children).

Further, there is still mercury in flu vaccines.

Unfortunately, the billions in profits annually for the vaccination sellers, buys them plenty of lobbyists and PR firms willing to continue their cover-up.

Sorry, C&L but you are way out of your depth on this issue. Thimerosol is just the beginning of the real problem. John McCain is also glossing over an issue he knows very little about. I rarely ever agree with John McCain on anything. However, in this instance he might actually be showing a glimmer of good intention by addressing the issue. Or, he could simply be guilty of trying to find an issue to wrap himself in the flag about. Personally, I still don't much care what he thinks.

The point is that this is scratching the surface of a very nasty issue and, trust me on this C&L, you do not want to be on the wrong side of this issue. Stick to politics.

peaceful easy feeling @ 124:

Proud2bHumble @ 111:

I asked you first - what do you like about C&L?

That a wide variety of viewpoints are tolerated by the site owner. Of course there are the usual intolerant haters, raving lunatics and conspiracy nuts to bring down the level of discourse, but by and large the opinions expressed here are lucid and constructive, with even an original thought to be found on occasion.

Geez, does it hurt that much to say something nice about this site, or did you troll off somewhere to post your false equivalencies, out-of-context arguments and nuanced condescensions at the end of some old threads as usual? This isn't coming out of left field (well, actually, it is, lol) and you know it. You are obviously intelligent enough to have a command of the subtleties of the language, yet you choose to use it to sneak in doubt and right-wing talking points. From observing your little act for a while now, I'd say there's a good chance you're a Madison Avenue sociopath who likes to come on here and see what you can get away with as a skills exercise, or a ReCon with some marketing/debate training. Prove me wrong in the future and I'll be happy to admit it. Keep shoveling your shit, and I'll keep calling you on it where our paths cross. Don't worry, I'll check back every day or so to counter the 'last word' you'll try to sneak in for wingnut posterity after we've all moved on.

chewbacca @ 13:

This site would do well to "look at the science" and question the science backingup the government and vaccine manufacturers claims. It is wrought with conflicts of interest.

The government just concede a case in the Vaccine Court. There are ~4.900 pending.

I haven't read all of the comments yet but this case that chewbacca references is a very important disclosure by the government on these 5000 cases.

Dave K @ 126:

All I can add to this thread is this: If you choose not to vaccinate your children against diseases that have in the past killed and maimed millions, then you're an idiot.

Perhaps you should read more before making a purely emotional comment like this.

Peter G @ 128:

Proud2bHumble @ 127:

peaceful easy feeling @ 124:

Proud2bHumble @ 111:

That a wide variety of viewpoints are tolerated by the site owner. Of course there are the usual intolerant haters, raving lunatics and conspiracy nuts to bring down the level of discourse, but by and large the opinions expressed here are lucid and constructive, with even an original thought to be found on occasion.

Geez, does it hurt that much to say something nice about this site, or did you troll off somewhere to post your false equivalencies, out-of-context arguments and nuanced condescensions at the end of some old threads as usual? This isn't coming out of left field (well, actually, it is, lol) and you know it. You are obviously intelligent enough to have a command of the subtleties of the language, yet you choose to use it to sneak in doubt and right-wing talking points. From observing your little act for a while now, I'd say there's a good chance you're a Madison Avenue sociopath who likes to come on here and see what you can get away with as a skills exercise, or a ReCon with some marketing/debate training. Prove me wrong in the future and I'll be happy to admit it. Keep shoveling your shit, and I'll keep calling you on it where our paths cross. Don't worry, I'll check back every day or so to counter the 'last word' you'll try to sneak in for wingnut posterity after we've all moved on.

Who was that masked man? HIYO Silver Away!

Too subtle?

peaceful easy feeling @ 130:

Proud2bHumble @ 127:

Oh, yeah, thanks for the reminder on one of the other hazards out here in the 'sphere: obsessive netcoppers.

Stick to lotto, friend, because the contrived conclusions your "educated" guesses are leading to couldn't be more off their mark.

Now we're having fun. I'm starting to like you... tell me more about yourself, I'm incontrovertibly intrigued.

P.S. I prefer MegaMillions.

Studies raise questions about increase in autism cases
Wednesday, February 06, 2008
By Mark Roth, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

When the Centers for Disease Control announced last year that an average of one out of 150 children had autism, it convinced many people that America was seeing an explosion of autism cases.

Before the 1990s, the official estimates were one autistic child out of every 2,000 to 5,000 children. Several autism advocacy groups took that as proof that some environmental toxin, such as mercury preservative in vaccines, had caused a huge spike in the autism numbers.

But there are now intriguing indications that most if not all of the autism increase is the result of broadening the criteria for the diagnosis and identifying children with autism who would have been labeled with a different diagnosis in the past.

A 2006 study in the journal Pediatrics found, for instance, that the national increase in identified autism cases in elementary schoolchildren between 1984 and 2003 had been paralleled by a similar decrease in the number of children labeled as retarded or learning disabled.

Paul Shattuck of Washington University in St. Louis, the lead author of the study, wrote last year that "in 44 of 50 states, the increase in autism was completely offset by a decrease in the prevalence of children considered 'cognitively disabled' or 'learning disabled.' "

In an interview this week, Dr. Shattuck said that because of changes in the definition of autism and how it is measured, it is impossible to know how much it may have increased from past years.

But his study certainly suggests that "diagnostic substitution" -- labeling someone as autistic today who would have been labeled as retarded 30 years ago -- is a substantial part of the picture.

Dr. Shattuck's study isn't the only one showing this trend.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08037/854963-114.stm

The "1 in 166 have autism" statistic is bogus.

Paul in LA @ 117:

Slaw @ 91 "I don't trust the business people running big pharma, but every scientist I've met who works for big pharma has been humanitarian."

That hilariously misstates the problem of FOR PROFIT DRUGMAKING AND SELLING.

"Without big pharma, few with juvenile onset diabetes would live 10 years after diagnosis."

The development of insulin for such illnesses is VASTLY different from the experimental drug classes we are talking about.

Eli Lilly, a for profit drug company, brought recombinant insulin to market in the early 80s. I'm sure they made a good profit on it, yet that was not the sole motivation of the people who worked on it. It was produced at a time when hysteria ruled regarding any kind of DNA work. Anyone doing now simple molecular biology had to do so in full protective gear. Producing human insulin in bacteria and then injecting it into humans was incredibly controversial, with lots of claims made of for-profit companies disregarding the public safety.

Benadryl was developed just down the road from where I live at Parke Davis (which is no more--Pfizer bought them and closed them down). Whether it was based on a so-called natural product doesn't matter; a lot of chemistry went into its development.

Vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives. I fail to understand how they are so different from insulin.

I do question the profits of big pharma. But anyone who makes blanket statements about all of the people working there has no idea that people can be motivated by things other than money. And as others have said before, if you're going to ridicule others for not believing the science about global warming, then you'd better not just go with your gut or intuition when it comes to medicine and vaccines.

I skimmed over a couple of these quotes and everyone seems to believe in some gigantic pharaceutical complex conspiracy that pushes drugs to people who don't need them. You people are assuming that every doctor in America is without morals or ethics, that they went into the profession to earn big money, not to help people. I'm sorry if it disapoints your consiparicy theorist minds, but most doctors want to help people and they prescribe drugs to help people. These people go to college to learn the science behind the drugs they are prescribing. Many admit that prescirptions are a little to high (especially for things like bipolar-disorder and clinical depression) but just decide that doctors and drug companies are evil is patently untrue. And like this post cites, its dangerous to keep people away from things like vaccines. I mean, we eradicated Small pox using vaccines, the science is their and proven, we shouldn't hold ourselves back from eradicating the next disease through unfounded fears.

We are all well aware of the evils of the pharmaceutical companies. A raft of of them can be found on the web. I for one am no fan - but - you also cannot deny the fact we are also living longer, healthier lives than at any other time in human history. You have to look at the good and the bad. Its called the big picture.

peacepipe @ 144:

AbbeFaria @ 5:

This is the problem with many people in today's world. There are no facts, only opinions. It could be that McCain is simply misinformed - lots of people are - but let's watch to see if anybody in the MSM picks this up and asks him about it again.

actually you are misinformed and so is c&l. ther is an obvious link to autism. the pharm companies are the ones who do the studies to prove their products safe and if they say so, voilla. the rise in autism is directly related to the introduction of thermosil, it is irrefutable! to bad mccain finally got something right. it is rare but he is more on it than crooks and liars!!!
just like they said vioxx was safe and now look. also some of the cholesteral drugs are being deemed useless. its all about making a buck, not about keeping kids safe.

Sorry but you're mistaken. the majority of the studies cited here were done through university based research - here in the U.S. and abroad.

I'm sorry to inform you that McCain is right on this one. The medical community is loathe to support it because of the ramifications of admitting it but Thimerosol is a mercury based poison that is used as a preservative in many of our children's vaccines. There is a boat load of scientific evidence out there and just ask some of the parents of autistic kids. I'm a liberal progressive and I am no fan of McCain. He called it right here though.

Mark Richards @ 57:

The need for thimerosol is to preserve vaccine material in a multi-use vial. It makes the distribution more cost effective (cheaper and thereby more profitable). If it were removed, vaccine makers would have to use something else or supply the vaccines in single-dose packaging. They get around the problem now by reducing the concentration to a level considered to be a "trace" amount, add a ton of aluminum as an adjuvant, and can thereby can claim that vaccines are "mercury free" when they are not.

Autism is of course a neurological disease and methyl mercury is a potent neurotoxin. So it's natural to draw a parallel. But thimerosol is only one of a wide range of other chemicals and genetically altered biologic material that is titred into the bloodstream. What is suggested by those who have followed this issue closely over the years is that the one size fits all vaccine policy in the US, one that does not at all take into account any genetic predisposition for adverse reaction, is partly to blame for such close tracking between vaccine rates and a broad spectrum of neurological disorders.

With the loss of the basic universal legal premise of "informed consent" I see further disaster to follow.

Inquiring minds might ask simply whether the potential risks inherent in all medical treatment (a vaccine is indeed a prophylactic medication) is offset by a far greater benefit. Looking carefully at the disease statistics that all of the vaccines are supposed to prevent might give one a clue. This is the secret truth: the vaccines are not necessary except to maintain resistance. But what happens when the bugs become resistant to the vaccines? Some scientists believe this is happening, just as it is with antibacterials.

Of course, there is the "herd immunity" argument and the other one that says "vaccines work". Both are indisputable. But what deserves scrutiny in the necessity for so many vaccines (I call them convenience drugs) delivered with a cookie-cutter policy.

It is difficult for the Physician to examine their own navel. It's even more difficult when vaccines are a huge profit-center for the medical-industrial complex. Of course, such examination will not happen in the current climate, but still I have to say it's long overdue. What's even more important is to not lose the doctrine of informed consent. When this goes - which basically says we no longer have control over what goes into our body - we're indeed screwed.

Spot on post - hoping my full quoting of it will ensure more people read it.
Steve B - don't believe everything you read...