On the one hand, Bush refuses to confirm that America uses waterboarding, and then now, on the othe hand, he vetoes a bill which prohibits it. Which is it Dubya? If we don't waterboard, why veto a bill which outlaws something we don't do?

Yuh. This is a bill they could have stuck under his nose at any time since "day one", but it just wasn't close enough to the election yet. Why isn't the headline about THAT? And why don't we have a photoshopped image of Harry and Nancy and Hillary and Barack waterboarding prisoners?

And the answer is (and always was, and always will be) NO. Shrug is a psychopath, pure and simple, and has done untold damage to this country. The people who deny this are either too stupid to understand or too psychopathic themselves to care.

The best thing for people of intelligence and good will to do is to ready themselves for what is to come and do everything we can to survive and rebuild from the ashes that are Shrub's legacy.

And when I say "ready themselves" I don't mean carrying signs, commenting on blogs, and writing to their representatives. I do all that and more, and have for years, but it's become apparent that only the strong and well prepared are likely to live through the next 10 years.

I hope someone asks St. McCain about this tomorrow!

you're a sadistic man, george bush.

Would the opposite of vetoing an anti-torture bill be to support a pro-torture bill?

Nice Legacy Building there Dubya! It's nice to know you will be Remembered for something.

last one in is a rotten egg!!!

href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boM69UkXSzk">

It is well known that President Bush listens to and follows the advise of his generals, without fail. Given that even David Petraeus has supported this measure, we are left to conclude the obvious: the War on Terror is actually being run by secret generals to which only the President himself is privy. Very sneaky, Mr. Bush, very sneaky indeed.

Your move, terrorists!

99 @ 4:

Yuh. This is a bill they could have stuck under his nose at any time since "day one", but it just wasn't close enough to the election yet. Why isn't the headline about THAT? And why don't we have a photoshopped image of Harry and Nancy and Hillary and Barack waterboarding prisoners?

Your kung-fu is weak.

bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran

bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran

you'll have them rockin and a-rollin

if 2008 is stolen

bombiran-ran-ran--bomb bomb iran

There's all kinds of pressing shit the Dems have ignored. It's so bad, there's no way to keep up. OTOH, when they do get something in front of the chimp, 99 wants a pic of Dems waterboarding someone.

Smart.

We believe it is vital to the safety of our men and women in uniform that the United States not sanction the use of interrogation methods it would find unacceptable if inflicted by the enemy against captured Americans…

As a self confessed Born Again Christian(TM) President Bush naturally doesn't understand the concept of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

[Deleted. dadams, this sort of thing is not appreciated here-Sitemonitor]

Sandmont 11 @ 21:

RayC @ 7:

99 @ 4:

Yuh. This is a bill they could have stuck under his nose at any time since "day one", but it just wasn't close enough to the election yet. Why isn't the headline about THAT? And why don't we have a photoshopped image of Harry and Nancy and Hillary and Barack waterboarding prisoners?

You know its always better for the reader if you post something that makes a little sense and has some kind of point. What if the F**K are you talking about?

I believe his or her point is that such a bill, one forbidding "enhanced" interrogation techniques such as waterboarding, should have been one of the first bills to come out of a Democratically controlled congress, rather than something produced 14 months after their having taken office.
A good point too IMHO.

The first thing that should have come out of the House in January 2007 would have been bills of impeachment for Cheney and Bush. Pelosi and Hoyer are as much to blame for this veto as Bush is. Even though it's very doubtful that the Senate would have convicted either the Pres. or VP, it might just have slowed down or stopped their continuous and expanding grab for power.

dadams @ 28:

99 @ 4:

Yuh. This is a bill they could have stuck under his nose at any time since "day one", but it just wasn't close enough to the election yet. Why isn't the headline about THAT? And why don't we have a photoshopped image of Harry and Nancy and Hillary and Barack waterboarding prisoners?

[Deleted post]

Now that was totally uncalled for!

[Agreed-Sitemonitor]

99 @ 4:

This is a bill they could have stuck under his nose at any time since "day one",

It would not have passed the Congress without the scandal and the press coverage. It would have been rubberstamped NAY, just like when the Republicans ran the Congress in the 109th.

GonzoD @ 17:

This whole goddamn administration should be in the Hague!

Gee that would be great. Except that the U.S. gutted the Hague treaty, and then didn't sign it anyhow. So the Hague has ZERO power over these clowns.

Paul in LA @ 36:

GonzoD @ 17:

This whole goddamn administration should be in the Hague!

Gee that would be great. Except that the U.S. gutted the Hague treaty, and then didn't sign it anyhow. So the Hague has ZERO power over these clowns.

Maybe we should reopen Nuremberg!

lafin gas @ 38:

Maybe we should reopen Nuremberg!

We have to defeat Bush in the political wars first.

Remember when George said "It would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship."

Notice how easy it's become?

Geez, Joe@35, I hate it when intelligence and logic get it the way of being a tough Texan "You're either for us or against us" attitude.

I was thinking of opening a bar where instead of a mechanical bull, you have a waterboard.

No need to sign liability waivers as I would already be immune from prosecution.

Paul in LA @ 36:

GonzoD @ 17:

This whole goddamn administration should be in the Hague!

Gee that would be great. Except that the U.S. gutted the Hague treaty, and then didn't sign it anyhow. So the Hague has ZERO power over these clowns.

I know that. And we all know why the USA didn't sign the Hague treaty - War Crimes.
You can cut back on the sarcasm anytime.

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

With this veto, Bush has forsaken his oath, which makes him a traitor. That’s a fact, jack.

Paul in LA @ 39:

Joe O. @ 35:

Its no doubt that Bush has not thought this through and vetoed this legislation simply to appear "tough on terror" and nothing more.

Wow, you think so?

It's CLEAR he is doing this to bring shame to America, and BREAK INTERNATIONAL TREATY LAW INTO SMITHEREENS, same as he has been doing for six years.

Agreed. How America appears is one thing. Turning a terrorist cell into a much more lethal and effective force however is entirely another. That was the point I was trying to make. By vetoing this bill, Bush could have forced legitimate terrorist groups and their cells to take measures to counter Bush's torture methods. If that is indeed the case, then those cells will be almost impossible to penetrate now.

In 2003, during the invasion, the --CIA Air Force-- shot up the Russian ambassador's caravan, and then --CIA ground forces-- tried to search his papers (his driver was dead).

The CIA is a SEPARATE military from our own. How amazing that the son of the CIA chief would steal power through rigged elections and media, and then turn the CIA into a private corporate wing of the military/corporatist complex. How odd, that the "vast rightwing conspiracy" (--HR Clinton) would install willing felons as SecStates (most of whom now removed by citizen activism), and then push the boundaries in the hopes that restraint will collapse.

It didn't work. And now we have to chase them down with dogs.

Amanda Reckonwith @ 45:

"What sets us apart..." ??? So if we stop waterboarding, they will stop cutting of the heads of innocent civilians?? To think that is not even naive. Just plain stupid and pandering to the radical left wing liberals with the "blame America first" mentality.

With that attitude, I'm sure there are a couple of races of people that you think the world could do without!

If I was Speaker Pelosi I would schedule a vote to override the veto. See how many republican in an election year want to go on the record for torture.

If the shoe was on the other foot the GOP would have that vote on Monday if not tomorrow ala Terry Schiavo.

Paul in LA @ 59:

Paul C @ 53:

I heard that some Abu Ghareb soldier-torturers were ex-prison guards (fired for ill-treatment of prisoners), but fine for holding suspected resisters to the invasion of their country.

That is not correct. The ACTUAL torturers were mainly Mossad-directed private contractors, from rightwing deathsquads from South Africa, Central America, Indonesia, and other previous rightwing terror projects.

The idiot U.S. MPs who were caught and tried were just doing the softening up work, in a haze of racism and ignorance. They were not doing the torture, and would not have been able to. You have to be REALLY twisted to do that, and you have to have an active hatred of Arabs or other non-white people.

Wow! Imagine how that job interview would go...

Bush lies to America and they do nothing.

Americans have become pathetic.

Don't disturb me, I'm watching Idol.

99 @ 4:

Yuh. This is a bill they could have stuck under his nose at any time since "day one", but it just wasn't close enough to the election yet. Why isn't the headline about THAT? And why don't we have a photoshopped image of Harry and Nancy and Hillary and Barack waterboarding prisoners?

Republican talking point.

Joe O. @ 52:

Bush could have forced legitimate terrorist groups and their cells to take measures to counter Bush's torture methods. If that is indeed the case, then those cells will be almost impossible to penetrate now.

I doubt it. The same idiotic human failings that have allowed us to capture such cells for decades continue to be in effect.

The U.S. CIA --trained-- Al Qaeda. The Saudi King PAID (at least) two of the hijackers stipends directly (through the Saud Ambassador Bandar 'Bush' 's wife).

The set-up of all of this is going to come falling down, if we knock a few more props out. Get out the marshmallows.

69!

Mike Mc Elroy @ 58:

If I was Speaker Pelosi I would schedule a vote to override the veto. See how many republican in an election year want to go on the record for torture.

There will of course be an override. But this is a LONG effort, and it's not the first time that anti-torture language has been on Bush's desk. So there are already available lists of Republicans who support torture, if you think that will function politically with their braindead local supporters.

Paul in LA @ 69:

McCain the Liar @ 62:

Don't disturb me, I'm watching Idol.

At its peak, American Idol brought in 35 million viewers.

There are 200 million adults in the United States.

So you can put the lies back in the can, and the can back on the shelf.

Off the subject, but Paul, I'm liking you a lot.

Paul in LA @ 67:

Janet Hussein @ 65:

You mean the naked pyramid and the dildo in the prisoners ass and the dogs and the smile and wave over the dead body weren't done by those same MPs that were in the pictures.

If you think that was torture, you have a weak idea of it.

Btw, I don't think the MPs stuck dildos in the prisoners' asses. If we ever get to examine the evidence, the actual torture work was done by contractors, specialists. Because the average MP is in no way capable of doing what a psychopath with a pair of pliers can do.

Btw, I don't think the MPs stuck dildos in the prisoners' asses.
Well you are wrong again. It is among the pics that CBS released back then. I have them all saved for people like you but I don't know how to post it here.

Janet Hussein @ 74:

It is among the pics that CBS released back then.

It's possible. But those MPs were not involved in the more intense torture. They were misled by command -- they were not professional torturers.

CENTCOM has allowed the deployment of huge numbers of rightwing deathsquad experts in torture, such as from Indonesia, or Islam Karimov's pals in Uzbekistan.

PLENTY of KKK, gang members, and aspiring racists of all stripes were released onto the captive civilianry of Iraq. But those are amateurs.

One of the first professionals was Strydom, who was blown out of his boots early on. Imprisoned for membership in Korovet, that South African racist was joined by several thousand of his fellow deathsquad rapists, murderers, and, in the S. Africa case, convicted criminals who were barred from mercenary activity as a condition of their release.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12061

Unlike our MPs, these white-supremacists from S. Africa had long experience in necklacing, torture, gang rape and other forms of terror. They like their work, because they actively hate brown people, and had already killed a great many. Unlike the bulk of our MPs.

Mike Mc Elroy @ 56:

If I was Speaker Pelosi I would schedule a vote to override the veto. See how many republican in an election year want to go on the record for torture.

If the shoe was on the other foot the GOP would have that vote on Monday if not tomorrow ala Terry Schiavo.

Oh for satan's sake,leave the poor lady alone. How dare you want her to try stopping junior bush from torturing/enhancely interrogating the islamo evildoers who want to kill us. She is just the Speaker after all, not some superwoman. Right now she is so busy investigating which baseball player is smoking crack or popping pills that she can barely find time to take a nap. In America stuff like that is more important than some stupid torture stuff.

Truth B Told @ 77:

Someday, soon,

they will be torturing the dissenters.

guaranteed.

They already tortured Jose Padilla. Not exactly a dissenter...but after years in solitary and after receiving the kind of treatment they dished out, he's totally nutted up.

Paul B. @ 79:

Unless George W. Bush is tried and convicted of "high crimes," I will never again believe in the American "rule of law."

The ONLY result of a successful impeachment conviction is removal.

We don't have the votes to remove him (them).

If you are only going to settle for a removal we don't have the votes to produce, then your 'belief' in American rule of law is A JOKE. Prosecution for his crimes -- actual criminal prosecution -- can begin once he is out of office. How hard are you willing to work for that?

Because ask not what the American justice system can do -- ask what you will have to do (nonviolently) to make it work. And then do it.

If you aren't willing to work, your opinions or 'belief' is meaningless. What are you, Armchair Moses? YOU have to work -- you are not simply the requiem writer for an American obituary--you're a citizen WITH A DUTY.

.

I thought "America doesn't TORTURE."

Oh, that's right, it's not TORTURE when we do it...

But wait, even Betray-us called H2O boarding illegal, immoral, and a risk to inTERRORgators and the troops.

But alas, we have CONNEDgress to save us...
... or will they?

.

Paul in LA @ 80:

Paul B. @ 79:

Unless George W. Bush is tried and convicted of "high crimes," I will never again believe in the American "rule of law."

The ONLY result of a successful impeachment conviction is removal.

We don't have the votes to remove him (them).

If you are only going to settle for a removal we don't have the votes to produce, then your 'belief' in American rule of law is A JOKE. Prosecution for his crimes -- actual criminal prosecution -- can begin once he is out of office. How hard are you willing to work for that?

Because ask not what the American justice system can do -- ask what you will have to do (nonviolently) to make it work. And then do it.

If you aren't willing to work, your opinions or 'belief' is meaningless. What are you, Armchair Moses? YOU have to work -- you are not simply the requiem writer for an American obituary--you're a citizen WITH A DUTY.

Paul,

"WE DON'T HAVE THE VOTES..."

Please prove it.

First of all, have you convinced your House Rep. to cosponsor H.Res 333... YET?
Start there please!
The Senate needs a case to vote on.
Until then, I suggest you stop being the naysayer about conviction and focus on the trial in the House first.

I mean, what kind of Attorney decides to try a criminal based on the conviction s/he might obtain? THAT is a sign of poor character and an act of Injustice.

.

Roket @ 48:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

With this veto, Bush has forsaken his oath, which makes him a traitor. That’s a fact, jack.

B I N G O!

.

GonzoD @ 8:

I hope someone asks St. McCain about this tomorrow!

He'll state unequivocally, that he is the man with experience in TORTURE to lead the way as CEO of U.S.Torture Ink.

.

JR @ 2:

On the one hand, Bush refuses to confirm that America uses waterboarding, and then now, on the othe hand, he vetoes a bill which prohibits it. Which is it Dubya? If we don't waterboard, why veto a bill which outlaws something we don't do?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/03/20080308.html
March 8, 2008 (Radio address)

...
Were it not for this program, our intelligence community believes that al Qaida and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland.

The main reason this program has been effective is that it allows the CIA to use specialized interrogation procedures to question a small number of the most dangerous terrorists under careful supervision. The bill Congress sent me would deprive the CIA of the authority to use these safe and lawful techniques. Instead, it would restrict the CIA's range of acceptable interrogation methods to those provided in the Army Field Manual. The procedures in this manual were designed for use by soldiers questioning lawful combatants captured on the battlefield. They were not intended for intelligence professionals trained to question hardened terrorists.

Limiting the CIA's interrogation methods to those in the Army Field Manual would be dangerous because the manual is publicly available and easily accessible on the Internet. Shortly after 9/11, we learned that key al Qaida operatives had been trained to resist the methods outlined in the manual. And this is why we created alternative procedures to question the most dangerous al Qaida operatives, particularly those who might have knowledge of attacks planned on our homeland. The best source of information about terrorist attacks is the terrorists themselves. If we were to shut down this program and restrict the CIA to methods in the Field Manual, we could lose vital information from senior al Qaida terrorists, and that could cost American lives.

The bill Congress sent me would not simply ban one particular interrogation method, as some have implied. Instead, it would eliminate all the alternative procedures we've developed to question the world's most dangerous and violent terrorists. This would end an effective program that Congress authorized just over a year ago.

The fact that we have not been attacked over the past six-and-a-half years is not a matter of chance. It is the result of good policies and the determined efforts of individuals carrying them out. We owe these individuals our thanks, and we owe them the authorities they need to do their jobs effectively.

We have no higher responsibility than stopping terrorist attacks. And this is no time for Congress to abandon practices that have a proven track record of keeping America safe.

Thank you for listening.

Now, not only did the president ADMIT to using these techniques(highlighted in BOLD), repeatedly, but he assured us that he intends to continue to use these techniques.

Also, we need to thank the CIC for allowing these terrorists "IN" on the forthcoming techniques that will be used upon them so that they can bone up on resistance to our methods of extraction... Great job, DUH-B-ya!

p.s.
Dubby,
Saying it's legal while vetoing the bill that makes that specific act illegal undermines your credibility right there. What...? It's not illegal when the president does it?
LOL. Good one Nixon... er DUH-B-ya, or is it just Dooby, as in "What the hell you been puffin' on?"

Congress can't recognize TREASON when it bites them on the nose, can they?

Comments anyone?
;)

NEW BUSH COINS (Change For The Better)
http://blip.tv/file/520347

That said, impeaching Cheney would still put their crimes into the public record in an important way, so I favor it as a separate action. If Kucinich files on Bush himself, that will kill both efforts.

Paul in LA @ 94:

If Kucinich files on Bush himself, that will kill both efforts.

HOW?

.

.

Oops,
Forgot Betty Hall of New Hampshire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyzIRPl4m9U&feature=related

Paul in LA @ 41:

Shared Humanity @ 5:

We are a nation of war criminals. Make no mistake, we are responsible for what our government does in our name.

That's utter bullshit. Pity trolling will get you no where. You have to WORK to overcome, not just heap blame on the nation.

I'm at 700 hours of street protest. How much are YOU doing (how well is the total blame justification working to keep you from having to work?).

Not In Our Name.

Same tired "700 hours" bullshit, eh Paul. Quit lying. Just because it's the internet means nothing. Do you also pose as an ex VietNam vet? Besides jumping all over posters that are supposed to be in your very own party (which you love more than anyone), what exactly are YOU doing to ensure the Dems win? Attacking supporters? This does what exactly? You don't support the Dems. You support "certain" Dems such as the corporate hacks that do little. You are more disgusting than the people you reply to. But I guess that is what the rightwing trolls do.

Bush: "Look my antielephant apparatus kept the White House safe from elephants for 7 years!"

Congress: "Elephants in the WH? We dont see any elephants.."

Bush: "Exactly! See how well it works!"

Congress: "Oh come on! You dont have any antielephant apparatus"

Bush: "I do too!"

Congress: "So let us see it then."

Bush: "No! That will just tell the elephants how it works! And you will ruin everything!"

Congress: "We allready know your antielephant apparatus is just a mouse. And we know it doesnt work. Its a myth for Gods sake!"

Bush: "Shut up stupids!! Dont tell them! The elephants are coming and its all your fault!"

Congress: "Ok ok. Calm down. Keep your god damned mouse then. Jeez..."

I note the cautiously worded protests, such as "regretable" or "misguided." Or "unacceptable" or "impractical." That Bush endorses selling our national soul to the Devil, that his argument arrogantly ignores the experts' testimony, deserves no less a epithet as out and out "criminal." A year more of this moronic monster, this cartoon dolt, this horrid half-wit subjects are country to, at the very least, a Bush brand of water-boarding.

Max-Hussein-1 @ 96:

Paul in LA @ 94:

If Kucinich files on Bush himself, that will kill both efforts.

HOW?

.

Because filing on the actual President has overwhelming ramifications compared to filing on a VP, especially super-corrupt Cheney.

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 100:

Same tired "700 hours" bullshit, eh Paul. Quit lying. Just because it's the internet means nothing. Do you also pose as an ex VietNam vet? Besides jumping all over posters that are supposed to be in your very own party (which you love more than anyone), what exactly are YOU doing to ensure the Dems win? Attacking supporters? This does what exactly? You don't support the Dems. You support "certain" Dems such as the corporate hacks that do little. You are more disgusting than the people you reply to. But I guess that is what the rightwing trolls do.

This flame-baiting of yours, even under a slightly different handle, is the equivalent of shoving a sack of those Ontario onions up your prodigious rear end. Have fun.

lafin gas @ 39:

Paul in LA @ 40:

lafin gas @ 38:

Maybe we should reopen Nuremberg!

We have to defeat Bush in the political wars first.

Agreed!

Then what do we do if we do not win this election?
Wait again until the next election?
Draw another line in the sand after the first 1000 have been crossed?
Write strongly-worded letters to Mr. Conyers (who appears to be doing nothing but blather) and other non-functioning reps?

If we haven't had enough by now, these goons will be raping and torturing our children while we stand around saying "well, we'll show'em next election, by golly!"

Forgive me if I seem rather dissatisfied with the process of letting Bush have his way by ignoring the laws, while we allow ourselves to continue to struggle over the roadblocks he himself puts in our way with a "rules are rules" excuse. When our "leader' doesn't play by the rules, why do we insist at playing by his rule book/

Paul in LA @ 108:

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 100:

Same tired "700 hours" bullshit, eh Paul. Quit lying. Just because it's the internet means nothing. Do you also pose as an ex VietNam vet? Besides jumping all over posters that are supposed to be in your very own party (which you love more than anyone), what exactly are YOU doing to ensure the Dems win? Attacking supporters? This does what exactly? You don't support the Dems. You support "certain" Dems such as the corporate hacks that do little. You are more disgusting than the people you reply to. But I guess that is what the rightwing trolls do.

This flame-baiting of yours, even under a slightly different handle, is the equivalent of shoving a sack of those Ontario onions up your prodigious rear end. Have fun.

It's not flame baiting Paul. I call bullshit when I see it, and you sir/madam are a glorified bullshitter. You never answered me though. How do you, in all your great "intelligence" plan on your Dems winning the trifecta, when you do nothing but attack Dem supporters and "pretend" you know all the answers and they are idiots? Is this some new campaign strategy?

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 113:

Verdillac @ 111:

Paul in LA @ 108:

ConcernedHusseinCanuck @ 100:

We called Bush and idiot, and he won!

This flame-baiting of yours, even under a slightly different handle, is the equivalent of shoving a sack of those Ontario onions up your prodigious rear end. Have fun.

you didn't answer him...you look really stupid not confronting this.

That is the answer. I'm right. He/she does this all the time. "I'm a Dem and even though the rest of you pretend to be Dems, you are idiots".....it's that new campaign strategy. Hillary is going to try it out soon. Call everyone idiots is the way to win!

Say, Canuck,

Why is Dion letting Harper take a big shit on him every week?
I'm getting tired of it.

One must be careful what they say these days. Having said that, I find myself lacking the ability to choose my words carefully. I have long believed that our government has become so corrupt and anti-"the people" that nothing short of an armed uprising will ever set right this VERY WRONG! When your level of hypocrisy outweighs your legacy it leaves a bitter taste.
We have one party who keeps getting tripped up by their own laws. They push through laws regarding same sex couples and despicable acts performed on children then get busted for soliciting the very children they are supposedly trying to protect or they get caught trying to pick up other men in public restrooms. People like Newt Gingrich who publicly chastised Clinton for getting a hummer in the Oval Office by someone other than his wife while carrying on an FULL SEXUAL EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIR of his own at the very time he's attacking him for it. Something he admitted to a few months back. You've got a guy claiming to believe in the sanctity of marriage gettin busted for high dollar prostitutes then lies about it. A party led by a narcicistic psychopath who enjoys watching things go "BOOM" from afar. He doesn't mind sending other peoples children to live out their worst nightmares while he himself is still AWOL from his own unit. His second in command is an even bigger coward. He was too afraid to answer the call when it came to him "5 F*CKING TIMES" but he's cool with watching death and destruction on the news as long as he and his buddies are getting rich off another countries natural resources. Tell me again how much the total dollar amount of NO BID CONTRACTS Haliburton has received since the start of this war? What's happened on their watch? We invaded a country that posed no immediate threat to our national security. We started a "War on Terror" that we are losing now that the people who did pose an immediate threat to our national security are winning back control of the rogue country they attacked us from. Mainly because our assets are in the wrong place fighting the wrong mission with no clear objectives or anything that passes for a strategy. The man we claim is responsible is still somewhere in the mountains between A'stan and Pakistan but he went from "Wanted Dead or Alive" and "We will not stop until Osama Bin Laden has been captured and brought to justice or killed" to "I don't know where he is and frankly I don't care. I don't think about him anymore. He's not our priority now"! We rescinded Habeas Corpus and deny anyone the president labels "an enemy combatant"(which with this bunch is just ripe for abuse) the right to defend themselves or even a chance to try. We can lock up anyone without ever charging them with a crime let alone acknowledging they've even been detained. We went from the country that arguably received the greatest outpouring of world support ever imagined immediately after 9/11 to the country the world hates. We'll never repair the damage done to our image in our lifetime. We went from the country that most other countries looked to for moral conviction to the country that not only practices torture but has a sitting administration that advocates it. We now have a politicized department of justice which means if you ain't republican and you have a parking ticket u better watch the f*ck out(ie see former gov. of Alabama)! We have a government that controls the populace with fear and lies. We now IlLEGALLY spy on our own people in the name of national security. We went from a thriving democracy to a fascist regime in 7 short years. We have a sitting president that has created the atmosphere of beaurocracy and incompetence at every level of government and political office. Cronyism has run rampant on his watch and the only qualification you need to apply for a position in his administration is loyalty to the republican party. You don't need any skills pertaining to the job at all because if you can run a horse stable you can be head of FEMA. You can feel safe knowing we have people that are paid to inspect the products we import but don't because it cuts into their day. We have a president that has DOUBLED our national deficit. He alone has raised it more than EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT COMBINED AFTER ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION! Most folks take a break from work by going on vacation but not W. He takes a break from his extended vacations by working one day a month. No, you shoudn't fear the reaper anymore. You should fear the Chinese because they're the ones that own our ass now. What else? Two stolen elections, black mail, murder, derilection of duty, treason, and I could go on but the one thing I will never forgive is the incompetence that led up to the day that changed the world. I know the previous administration holds some responsibility for it as well and that is a fact. However, the lies, conjecture, rewriting of history, stalling, refusing to discuss or cooperate with any investigation is IMHO the greatest sin surrounding 9/11. "We the people" just want answers that they have and are unwilling to provide for something as mundane and an obvious copout like "executive priviledge". With this bunch its always party over country without hesitation.

The other party is too busy cowering from its own shadow to question anything this administration does. It's like he's blackmailing them into following his every command. What? I know he talks with his hands alot but surely he can't use the "Jedi Mind Trick" on all of congress every time he gets his way. So why do they cave EVERY DAMN TIME? Does he "flashy thing" them every time the word "no" scrolls through their mind? Even now, it looks like he's gonna get Telecom Immunity from them. These people need to stop worrying about Waldo and start searching for their spines. I'm sure if they just retrace their steps back to the place they were sworn in they just might find em. Or maybe they should look under the couch. Impeachment is off the table but they won't give an honest reason as to why. They allow him to use signing statements to disregard the very laws they put on his desk to sign. And though it seems lately they have stayed relatively clean with regards to serious scandal they are not without corruption ie William Jefferson. Honestly, I could continue to even the score with dem issues (and there are just as many) but I'm just tired of typing so I'm through for now.

I just feel it will take a modern day Boston Tea Party to set this country straight yet its only wishful thinking to believe "We the People" would actually peel ourselves away from our 9 to 5's to make a difference. Our constitution not only gives us the right to throw off any government we deem unjust but encourages us to do so. The fear of being called a traitor and tried for treason is greater than the reality of true patriotism.

stringfelowhawk @ 118:

Our constitution not only gives us the right to throw off any government we deem unjust but encourages us to do so.

It's not our right, it's our obligation

The fear of being called a traitor and tried for treason is greater than the reality of true patriotism.

it's just fear...period.

Why would anyone think that the president would sign anti-torture legislation in the first place? If acts of torture were committed during his watch, and if torture were tolerated under his watch, signing this bill would be akin to Bush saying "Yep, I've changed my mind. Torture is bad."

Bush will never admit to making any mistake, especially this one. Signing the bill is equivalent to an admission that the practice is illegal...and make any prosecution of anyone in his administration a hell of a lot easier.

I'm surprised nobody has tried to assassinate Bush.

Or, at the very least, impeach his sorry ass.

Counting down the days ...

The new bumper sticker for the GOP "We Support Waterboarding our Troops, It really aint that bad"

Idiots!

curtilingus @ 44:

I was thinking of opening a bar where instead of a mechanical bull, you have a waterboard.

No need to sign liability waivers as I would already be immune from prosecution.

Great idea. Maybe it could allow cigarette smoking too?

Torture is nothing new to the CIA. Americans need to study South American history to understand the parallels with the Iraq today. Torture is shock therapy for disaster capitalists used to disorient the psyche of the people and force the financial sytems to capitulate to Chicago Boy style economics of free markets and privatization.

In 1963, the CIA codified these results in the so-called KUBARK Counterintelligence Manual. If you just type the word KUBARK into Google, you will get the manual, an actual copy of it, on your computer screen, and you can read the techniques. But if you do, read the footnotes, because that's where the behavioral research is. Now, this produced a distinctively American form of torture, the first real revolution in the cruel science of pain in centuries, psychological torture, and it's the one that's with us today, and it's proved to be a very resilient, quite adaptable, and an enormously destructive paradigm.

Let's make one thing clear. Americans refer to this often times in common parlance as "torture lite." Psychological torture, people who are involved in treatment tell us it's far more destructive, does far more lasting damage to the human psyche than does physical torture. As SENATOR MCCAIN said, himself, last year when he was debating his torture prohibition, faced with a choice between being beaten and psychologically tortured, I'd rather be beaten. Okay? It does far more lasting damage. It is far crueler than physical torture. This is something that we don't realize in this country.

Now, another thing we see is those photographs is the psychological techniques, but the initial research basically developed techniques for attacking universal human sensory receptors: sight, sound, heat, cold, sense of time. That's why all of the detainees describe being put in dark rooms, being subjected to strobe lights, loud music...That's sensory deprivation or sensory assault. Okay, that was sort of the phase one of the CIA research. But the paradigm has proved to be quite adaptable.

I would think a good impetus toward impeachment would be to get these 30 generals to sign onto an impeachment resolution as a result of Bush's veto. Even if 10-15 signed on, it would be hard for the media to ignore.

Sorry to say people, but it is to late!
Morality is not something we can simply turn off and on when we like.
Dignity does not have a window of opportunity.

When we decided to let torture happen, we can no longer simply shut the lid on the issue.

If we are for or against something, we need to be for or against it ALL the time.
And not like some fast-food joint that only tortures mon-sat 7:00 - 21:00.
When it no longer fits us, we just say the store closed?

With this whole incident we have shown the world what hypocrites we are.

The only way we can redeem ourselves is to fully renounce torture and throw all the books we can find at those that tried to sneak it by us.
Show the world who we really are by making examples of those in OUR midsts who did this!

Otherwise we are the worst kind of people there are: Those that sat by and did nothing.

We decided to do nothing. We decided to reelect him. We decided to not to keep pushing our representatives to go after BushCo.

If we were not heard, we simply did not speak up loud enough.

We can do so much, but we decided to do nothing.
All I hear are lame excuses.

You know the old Germans say the same things.

'All it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.'

miss_kitty Hussein @ 137:

'We' were ignored, and are STILL BEING IGNORED.

And we're being ignored, why?
because essentially, we do this..."If you choose to ignore us, we will discuss it amongst ourselves and then hastily write another polite letter repeating our concerns that you may review at your earliest convenience."

England ignored The Colonies, until...

stringfelowhawk @ 141:

Careful fellas. If there is any site being monitored you have believe this one is. We fear our government like the citizens of the USSR feared theres during the Cold War. The bogus paradigm nowadays is anything that passes for dissent against our government is treason because we let jackass republicans repeat it so often on the news without reprimanding them for it. We can't count on either party to stand up for us. We can't expect our military to say, "NO" to any order given to it by this psychopath in charge. We can't expect our federal agencies to perform their jobs without equivication even when it involves misconduct by the president and vice president themselves. They won't because they've been infiltrated by beaurocracy and people loyal to the administration. That is why the attorney general is refusing to uphold Congress' contempt charges against Meirs etc. So, even the one organization that is supposed to uphold the law of the land without prejudice for race, religion, position in life, or party affiliation has been corrupted by this man and his ideals. I am not a violent man by nature. I served this country for 9 years before deciding I would never again work for a man I do not respect. I took my honorable discharge and walked. This man enjoys violence. It makes him giddy to know he's taking lives without repurcussions. We need to take our country back and its a sad state when the realization is it can't be done by legal means. Anyone that tried would die and be called traitors. But imagine if it succeeded. We would have a true democracy again. I wish we could bring back George Washington to lead the charge.

Meh, if this is the U.S.S.R. the KGB has not a snowball's chance in hell of causing real fear. As for George Washington, you are aware of his response to the Whiskey Rebellion, right? Where a bunch of people protested an 18th Century equivalent to what goes on now, and Washington personally led the army to crush them? As for a rebellion you face the Palestinian dilemma. What use are rifles and stones against Abrams and F-16s? Most gun-control laws mean a rather pathetic choice of weaponry is available. How is the average pistol or maybe hunting rifle going to stop an RPG or machine gun? Rebellion is madness, this isn't Russia in 1917, the soldiers actually will shoot back.....

Verdillac @ 143:

General_Rennenkampf @ 142:

stringfelowhawk @ 141:

Careful fellas. If there is any site being monitored you have believe this one is. We fear our government like the citizens of the USSR feared theres during the Cold War. The bogus paradigm nowadays is anything that passes for dissent against our government is treason because we let jackass republicans repeat it so often on the news without reprimanding them for it. We can't count on either party to stand up for us. We can't expect our military to say, "NO" to any order given to it by this psychopath in charge. We can't expect our federal agencies to perform their jobs without equivication even when it involves misconduct by the president and vice president themselves. They won't because they've been infiltrated by beaurocracy and people loyal to the administration. That is why the attorney general is refusing to uphold Congress' contempt charges against Meirs etc. So, even the one organization that is supposed to uphold the law of the land without prejudice for race, religion, position in life, or party affiliation has been corrupted by this man and his ideals. I am not a violent man by nature. I served this country for 9 years before deciding I would never again work for a man I do not respect. I took my honorable discharge and walked. This man enjoys violence. It makes him giddy to know he's taking lives without repurcussions. We need to take our country back and its a sad state when the realization is it can't be done by legal means. Anyone that tried would die and be called traitors. But imagine if it succeeded. We would have a true democracy again. I wish we could bring back George Washington to lead the charge.

Meh, if this is the U.S.S.R. the KGB has not a snowball's chance in hell of causing real fear. As for George Washington, you are aware of his response to the Whiskey Rebellion, right? Where a bunch of people protested an 18th Century equivalent to what goes on now, and Washington personally led the army to crush them? As for a rebellion you face the Palestinian dilemma. What use are rifles and stones against Abrams and F-16s? Most gun-control laws mean a rather pathetic choice of weaponry is available. How is the average pistol or maybe hunting rifle going to stop an RPG or machine gun? Rebellion is madness, this isn't Russia in 1917, the soldiers actually will shoot back.....

The Viet Cong kicked our asses with Bamboo and Buffalo shit....

After over 10 years and repeated bombing raids to keep them motivated, along with ample aid from Mao and Krushchev and Brezhnev.Do you think the average fat American civvie of today could sustain that, particularly when the bombing disrupts Simon and Paula? Do you think the average American of today can continually run and somehow avoid government satellites that can track us? It's a little bit of a different scenario in 1960s South Vietnam and 2000s America....

Once again, Busholini has said "F*CK YOU" to the entire world. Nancy, Steny: we're waiting to see what you'll do to reign in this psychopath. *crickets chirping...*