Some Questions on Spitzer
By Nicole Belle Monday Mar 10, 2008 11:02am
Maybe because I've been following the Don Siegelman case closely, but when I heard about Elliot Spitzer's pending indictment, something just didn't past the smell test. While he's admitted to involvement with a prostitution ring and I'm by no means absolving him or trying to diminish the charges, there are more than a few unresolved aspects of this that keep me from calling for his resignation.
Jane Hamsher has summed up these little niggling questions very well:
1. Why would the bank tell the IRS and not Spitzer himself if there was a suspicious transfer? Spitzer is a longtime client, a rich guy and the governor. We're talking thousands of dollars here, not millions. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they spotted a "suspicious transfer" made by the governor, and that this is how things began. It's possible it was just ordinary paperwork the bank had to file with the government whenever some particular flag was raised, but if that's the case, why did the DoJ go to DefCon 3?
2. What is a USA doing prosecuting a prostitution case? This isn't normally what the feds spend their time with.
3. Mike Garcia is a Chertoff crony. Sources familiar with the investigation say that he sent a prosecution memo to DC two months ago asking for authority to indict a public figure (Spitzer). Which means they had their case made long before the wire tap of February 13. Why did they then include this line from that conversation in the complaint?
LEWIS continued that from what she had been told "he" (believed to be a reference to Client-9) "would ask you to do things that, like, you might not think were safe -- you know -- I mean that...very basic things...."Kristen" responded: "I have a way of dealing with that...I'd be like listen dude, you really want the sex?...You know what I mean."
This salacious detail does not seem like it's necessary to make their case, and appears to be added for no other purpose than to destroy Spitzer's career.
Scott Horton (who covers the Siegelman case extensively) and Digby have similar questions, while Glenn Greenwald notes the double standard between the breathless media coverage of Spitzer's scandal and David Vitter. And Will Bunch looks at the incredible history of the Mann act.
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To point #1 - It is called a SARS (suspicious activity report) and it comes from the Patriot Act. Banks must issue this when suspicious activity is noted and cannot tell their customer. I am a director and have seen many of these reports for some rather silly reasons, including check kiting.
Spitzer has powerful enemies. Of course this thing was a political hit job.
Many, many politicians see prostitutes in DC. There is an entire industry that simply provides prostitutes for politicians. If the feds wanted to crack down on escort services, all they would have to do is look in a phone book.
Spitzer's been doing this stuff himself for years. If we can make fun of the score of Republicans for cheating on their wives, then Spitzer's fair game. His dick got the better of him. Prostitution IS still illegal. Did plenty of people want Spitzer to go down? The floor of the exchange erupted in cheers yesterday when this news broke. Moral of the story: If you are going to play dirty yourself, you better keep your own nose clean.
Another Crook AND Liar goes down. Will plenty of Repubs rejoice? Sure. Just like we do when we've heard that another Repub hypocrite goes down.
No Tolerance for Crooks - especially not among our own.
"1. Why would the bank tell the IRS and not Spitzer himself if there was a suspicious transfer?"
Easy - banks are required to report any and all transactions to the IRS over a certain dollar amount, which I believe is $2,500. Just part of the financial hammer of the modern American Police State.
Spitzer was merciless (rightly so) and aggressively used every means availalable to prosecute Wall Street crooks. What goes around comes around.
Time to play Devil's Advocate:
1. Why would the bank tell the IRS and not Spitzer himself
Because due to anti-money laundering laws banks are required to report any "abnormal" transfers as well as all transactions over a few thousand except where they're normal and recurring (such as a grocery store's deposits).
2. What is a USA doing prosecuting a prostitution case?
Because this is a state governor, not John Q. Cruising_the_Bowery.
Which means they had their case made long before the wire tap of February 13.
You normally have to make a case in order to get wiretap authorisation.
I have no sympathy for the guy. He's been abusing his power for years (so much so that Cuomo had to admonish him) and just like all the Republicans who've been nailed over the past year or so, he's a damned hypocrite, doing exactly that for which he both chastised and persecuted others.
yeah right -- the governor is now a suspected terrorist? these times are surreal!!! the answer is easy -- domestic wiretapping is broader than issues relative to suspected terrorism. i suspect we will discover one day that it is being used for a multitude of political and power hungry purposes. makes watergate look like a walk in the park.
Radian @ 4:
I believe the amount is 10 grand - which is relevant in this case becuase presumably the cash was less - unless Spitzer was ordering a lot of sex.
Anything less than 10K is not supposed to be the government's business. This is why you don't have to declare less than that amount when you enter the U.S.
Something interesting to ponder
Spitzer was talking about Sales Taxes from Amazon.com for NY buyers. Might be something there... ;-)
Spitzer should resign. He broke the law and shamed the office, so he should step down imo.
However, on a more important note. Who gives a shit about this? There are literally hundreds of elected officials (democrat and republican) in this country abusing their power, and overreaching constitutional limits. Those are the people that Faux New and CfrNN should be reporting on.
Is the FBI usually involved in wiretapping a small prostitution ring? If not, I tend to doubt the investigation started with the prostitution ring, but with Spitzer.
Who gives a shit...He got caught doing something really illegal that he busted many other people for. He's a hypocrite that got caught and now he's paying for it. When we through the rascals out, it's gotta be all of them not just the ones with R's next to their names.
As I understand it; Banks are not required to report transactions under $10,000. Why would a bank report suspisous activity of $5,000 to Federal Authorities if not for political reasons?
The banks are forbidden from informing customers about transactions that trigger the duty to report to the IRS, good customer or not.
Ill sum it up in one word
ABUNCHOFHYPOCRITES
Fade @ 3:
BINGO! He should've been smart enough to realize he could be easily trapped . . or did he want to get caught?
Vitter didn't have to Resign; why should Spitzer?
It sucks but if you're gonna make powerful enemies you better make sure your nose is clean and his wasn't. He should have known better.
After the Seigleman affair it is entirely appropriate to be suspicious of this extremely politicized Justice Dept that is full of Pat Robertson-spawned lawyers.
I think Spitzer should have said:
Make it a package deal and put pressure on Repubs with the same problem.
Get your free Pocket BARACK-itizer here.
BigTobacco @ 2:
You are so right except that Spitzer has sent many a criminal to prison. If he committed crimes he must pay. Supporting Spitzer would unfortunately make us progressives total hypocrites.
On 24 May 2004, Grasso was sued by New York state Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, demanding repayment of the majority of a nearly $140 million pay package. Prior to being dismissed, Grasso had been in line to receive an additional $48 million over the $139.5 million he had already received; he was not paid the additional funds. Grasso has sued to gain those funds. According to the suit, Grasso, along with former NYSE director Kenneth Langone, misled the NYSE board about the details of his pay package, beyond that of comparable chief executives.
“A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.”
Karl Rove!
A spokesman for the Minority (Republican) Leader of the New York State Assembly has announced that if Spitzer doesn't resign in 48 hours, articles of impeachment will be introduced. (story) For a man who, let's face it, blew a couple of thousand bucks on a hooker.
And yet Democrats (the MAJORITY!!) in the U.S. Congress are unwilling to even so much as contemplate impeachment for a President and Vice President who have been caught lying innumerable times, and whose lies are costing the United States approximately a billion dollars a week.
Don't mind me, I'm going to go hit my head against something painfully solid right now, because the inequality here is already making my head hurt.
None of these are real questions and all of them try to deflect away from the fact that the guy is a hypocrite and he broke the law.
Regarding the bank transfers...Spitzer formally prosecuted people involved with prostitution rings. Don't you think he knew how much money could be moved around without triggering an investigation by the feds? Also, I think it's kind of strange that the Gov. of NY is telling folks to tell the woman to go right up to his room, the door is open. He's the Gov. of NY -- no security???? Especially in this time of terra, terra, terra??? with NY always being the "target"?
Sure he literally got caught with his pants down but after the Siegleman nonsense I seem to think that something smells like yesterday's diapers.
He may indeed be a hypocrite and may well have to step down - that'll be up to the voters and the Party - but my guess is that he's gonna kick the shit out of some Feds before it's over. This ain't Alabama where the Democratic Governor ain't got no friends. I suspect that there'll be some big names getting the hell embarrassed out of themselves.
Donaldd @ 17:
Just because he didn't doesn't mean no one should. Are we now looking for Republican politicians to be morally superior?
Donaldd @ 13:
They obviously circumvented the law. If this was a normal trial, the case would be thrown out. The only thing that matters here though is public perception and Spitzer is toast.
Obviously a political hit job set up by the Republican party using the FBI like J. Edger hoover was used and used it. Do I approve of Spirzer's actions no but I approve even less of the government's here. The FBI investigation prostitution cases?
More reasons to stand and fight, Democrats. I'm not asking you to defend or stand by Eliot Spitzer. But I am asking you to dig deeper and find out why this story broke so quickly and if it was accellerated by Spitzer's enemies.
Spitzer's enemies are also our enemies.
Can the Democrats in NY get Bloomberg to run as Gov on the Democratic ticket?
Fade @ 3:
I have to agree with ya on this...I've heard he unecesarily ruined peoples lives and careers to maintain his "white knight" persona...Dem or not, he's a two-faced criminal politician. The fewer the better I say.
Though I wouldn't put it past this administration. They probably wanted this guy for awhile...They gave him juuust enough rope to hang himself.
Spitzer has had a hell of a good record fighting corruption and I really could give a shit about prostitution involving consensual adults. What should concern us all is how Democrats think they are gaining the upper hand when the NSA and the judicial have the power to use wiretaps to destroy opposing politicians, while other evidence showing Republican corruption can be destroyed and hidden.
LegallyBlonde @ 25:
Sends a strong message.
Slamma @ 27:
New Rule: No one should ever resign over a sex scandal. Craig and Vitter keep their jobs, and so should Spitzer.
the required transaction amount must be 10k or more for a report to be done by a bank.
if the amount is less than that, but repeated say within a day or two, then suspicious activity report is done without the customer knowing. a lot of bank software will do this automatically without even the teller knowing this.
this was all put in place, or at least better enforced, after 9-11
Not that he should get a pass of any kind, but I do think these things are selectively enforced. Unfortunately when you mess with power, it messes with you back. He should have known to keep himself squeaky clean but I suppose humans have trouble with that.
I think it is very telling that a cheer went up fro the stock exchange floor when the story broke.
Just saying...
See The Big Picture @ 23:
Now that's totally fucked up!!! WTF DEMS? Get some impeachment goin for fucks sake!
Dhalgren @ 30:
Spitzer is an enemy too, We cannot say Vitter, and Craig are bad and need to step down and then cry foul when the chickens come home to roost (pun intended).
The wonderful and deceptively named "Patriot Act" and further amendments to this atrocious law, now put that limit at $2500 for "non-regular" transactions. You are no longer allowed to get money orders totaling more than $2500 from one location. If you get money orders from the Post Office (I buy a lot of stuff on ebay and refuse to use PayPal) and there are 10 or more money orders and/or it totals more than $1500, you have to fill out a form.
The Patriot Act was never "intended" to go after those who use prostitutes, but as we know from the FBI, the Patriot Act has been abused time and time again, especially for political reasons.
Do I think there was political motive for going after Gov. Spitzer? Very much so. Do I think Gov. Spitzer should have known that he would be a target and should have been more than squeeky clean? Damn right.
You don't go after Wall Street and you don't go after corporations and not expect political payback. He should have been smarter than this, but I guess he wasn't.
Meanwhile guys like Richard Grasso who Spitzer was after get a free pass.
On June 26, 1999, Reuters reported that Grasso met with Colombian rebels, the FARC, in an article entitled "NYSE Chief Meets Top Colombia Rebel Leader". The FARC is considered a terrorist organization by the U.S. State Department (on its list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations) and is allegedly responsible for kidnappings and narcotics trafficking in order to bankroll their revolutionary activities (see: narcoterrorism).
The article quotes Grasso, "I invite members of the FARC to visit the New York Stock Exchange so that they can get to know the market personally." Some find the meeting inexplicable, considering that the FARC has anti-capitalist ideals and has no officially recognized financial clout. Grasso told reporters that he was bringing "a message of cooperation from U.S. financial services."[2]
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.
damaged goods in a Public Office that can not and should not be below reproach...resign and move on.
Dhalgren @ 35:
To Hell with that. Spitzer is a Hypocrite. We can't exempt him because we agree with some of his positions. Aren't we trying to be the party that does the right thing? Doing the right thing means always, not when it's convenient, not when it benefits us, but always! It's what we expect from the republicans, it's what we need to expect from our party.
Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. If you're going to tear apart conservatives for being moral hypocrites, you have to do the same in this case. Having a "D" after your name instead of a "R" doesn't excuse this behavior.
unfrozencaveman @ 8:
it is 10k.....anyone who watches the sopranos knows this
and they want to prosecute him on the mann act???? puleeeese
Dhalgren @ 30:
Much better to just write it off and move on. One has to pick their battles. Not much to gain by reminding the public what a sleezeball Spitzer is. By trying to get to the bottom of th witch hunt you are implicitly defending Spitzer.
The bottom line is this guy was elected to use good judgement to help the people of NY. He has clearly demostrated a lack of ANY judgement and therefore is no longer fit to do the job he was elected to do. Democrat or Republican, he should resign, as should Vitter and Craig.
yet another evil right-wing democrat. how long before you become critical of all the wrong doings in the high offices of USA?
he paid for the call girl to take a train from New York to Washington, a move that opened the transaction up to federal prosecution because she crossed state lines.
GEE GALS AND GUYS...we know why bush and company wanted wiretapping. Wonder how many more Democrats they are wiretappping hoping to catch something before the 2008 election.....It is a wonder they didn't wait til September to loose this geinee in the bottle.
Leslie Hussein @ 11:
Has the FBI had ANY successful investigations since 9/11? They're wasting untold $ investigating a high class whorehouse? I call bullshit. Make that BUSHit.
Has anyone heard about what's going to happen to the prostitution ring? I bet their client list is an interesting read. Very likely many big money names? Or will that quietly disappear?
http://nymegaphone.com/node/24
Please wake up to the severity of the betrayal of America. Logic and reason demand that the Democratic party (us, here on these awesome blogs) really need to start to see this story as it connects to the larger picture in the war on terror.
This administration committed a betrayal against the very Idea of Ideas. Ask questions. Especially the ones you feel uncomfortable asking.
Whether or not this article is accurate or not is beside the point. Why aren't these allegations front page news?
If we concede that the MSM lies, then we have an obligation to ruthlessly, yet prudently and peacefully, hunt down the truth.
Thanks,
David F.
Cleveland, Oh.
Phoenix Justice @ 40:
The same Wall Street that brought us raging inflation, a trashed US Dollar, a now collapsing debt and credit Bubble of historic proportion, the demise of Joe Ultra Light Six Pack and a massive maladjusted economy made up of fictitious wealth.
Slamma @ 39:
Most Progressive blogs I read did not demand the resignations of Vitter and Craig, since they were wise to remember Clinton. We pointed out their moral hypocrisy and made a lot of jokes about them.
Spitzer is an asshole who is far from a good Democrat. Other examples of his kind include Jon Corzine and Hillary Clinton. We can do without them if we call ourselves 'progressives.' But yes, their enemies are our enemeies. We must fight these forces of evil behind the wiretaps, the unusual involvement of the USA's office, and the unusual actions of the IRS.
We're talking about a politician who hired hookers. Not exactly breaking, code Orange news, people.
The Truth Hurts @ 44:
Not a problem. OK, Spitzer is a hypocrite. Satisfied? Otherwise, whats your point? To my recollection, no one on the Left called for Vitter or Craig to resign. We just laughed like hell.
I think there is more to this story.
Just what is the emperors club?
who is client 1-8?
Before this story...
Spitzer was remembered for going after corporate corruption and wall street.
If we look at the actual words of Spitzer on Feb 14, it tells us more.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR200802...
Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.
LarryB @ 56:
Bingo!
Wall Streets agenda is to have a friend in the White House when the captains of capital are made to face the legal consequences for deliberately creating current and past economic “bubbles.” Wall Street desperately needs a president who will sweep all the corruption and losses, would-be indictments, perp walks and prosecutions under the rug and get on with an unprecedented taxpayer bailout of Wall Street.
Leslie Hussein @ 11:
The investigation began when the bank noticed that some of it's deposits may have been going into the bank accounts of dummy corporations. It was then that they notified the FBI. It looks like it began over wire transfers to dummy corps and spitzer's name surprisingly came up when they started looking at where the money was coming from.
like I said before,
was this a FISA-approved wiretap?
this is no doubt the Rovian Justice Department.
Who cares if the Governor of New York wants to bonk a prostitute.......! I don't, that's his business.....! Why are we always so fast to jump in other's bedrooms, and sex lives? Is it because ours are so very boring? I think so....! Maybe the Attorney General should go have sex with some hot bunny who really knows how to work him over.....That might actually calm him down.
L.A. Confidential @ 59:
of course, busch's base, the haves and have-mores.
"We had no interest at all in the prostitution ring until the thing with Spitzer led us to learn about it," said one Justice Department official.
Pete @ 62:
the Noxinian/Rovian justice department, which does not prosecute republicans.
L.A. Confidential @ 59:
well said..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR200802...
LarryB @ 56:
I called for both to resign. Because I have a moral center that says these people are to be held accountable when they do something wrong. Shit more people on the right were critical of Haggert than you guys are being of Spitzer. Talk about hypocrisy, Haggert wasn't even an elected official...
joe @ 64:
Yes, and now will they actively go after the other big $$$ johns?
At least Spitzer wasn't going after underage children. A popular Republicon pastime.
Does he get his super delegate status stripped now?
I like and admire Spitzer and hate to see him go down for this. I'm pretty disappointed in him. On the other hand, it seems mighty convenient for the Republicans and his many other enemies, both to take down a political enemy and to embarrass the Democrats in the middle of a presidential election campaign.
Pete @ 62:
I care when this law and order governor, who goes after members of his own party, is furthering organized crime that he has himself has prosecuted and said was a scourge on our society.
This has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with money laundering and hiding money to help advance organized crime and exploit women who are many times hostages to these pimps.
it's political, ok? but that's the game. This guy, who once was a high and mighty do-gooder, got busted. He's still a slime. If you can't play the game, don't get into politics because the other side is always looking to destroy you.
Now that his political enemies(and you know there are a ton of them) have eviscerated Spitzer, it's time for him to become accountable. You don't want slime like this representing the people.
gumby @ 1:
Thanks, I thought it had something to do with the Spy on Americans--er--Patriot Act
joe @ 49:
i suggest you peruse the online ads of many callgirls, who state that they will travel
are the feds running taps on all their phones?
this smacks of a political hit job
they were alledgedly investigating if spitzer was taking bribes.....whahahahahaha....thats a good one
Stus @ 71:
Excellent way to divert peoples attention off the continual avalanche of economic crimes and crimes against the constitution Bush Co is getting away with also. They got it down to an art form.
Slamma @ 67:
Yes, well, this is a core difference between Lefties and Righties. We are more interested in the public morality of our officials, especially regarding how they do their f**king jobs. What they do in private is between them and God.
Does any of this remind us of Monica Lewinsky?
Democrats are impeached (or threatened with impeachment) for sex.
Republicans are re-installed for their illegal sex, illegal wars, torture, wiretapping, torching the Constitution, destroying the environment, eradicating endangered species and tanking the economy.
It matters that the corruption and hypocrisy goes both ways, it matters more than the method by which the crime or hypocrisy was found out. I do agree that it stinks, but, if we allow it, hypocrisy stinks even more. We've been downwind of GW Bush and his regime for nearly eight years and we know the stench only too well. We should not hold our noses and ignore and allow this smell to overwhelm our senses. Let Spitzer resign and be done with it. The media and the neocon would love nothing more than to fill the airwaves with this until November. Ofcourse it was politically motivated and of course it was a plan to rile up the conservative base as with Bill Clinton but if one recognizes this fact then one should react accordingly. If one can prove the "hit job" in exactly one week and it goes away like a Britney Spears moment, then by all means go for it, but if it out shines the further corruption and stench from DC then be done with it! There are much bigger fish to fry.
Come November and this scandal annoints McBush as king we are all screwed and it will cost us a lot more than 4 thousand dollars and last a hell of a lot longer than some hotel tryst!
Please let sanity prevail here.
I hope he doesn't resign and simply owns up to this minor hypocritical detail in his personal life. I simply do not care about him hiring an hooker/escort/whore. In fact, the more sex someone gets should be looked at as a plus. Besides, why do we look for or expect perfection in government officials anyway. I would be satisfied with a group that didn't steal or waste public funds as well as passed and enforced fair and equal laws.
Stay the hell out of my personal affairs that bother no one but me and other consenting adults.
Also, has anyone considered how difficult it would be for the government to prove in court that he was actually soliciting prostitution. I'm sure he was, but proving that legally is a different manner...and I don't care anyway.
This is obviously a political hit, plain and simple.
joe @ 72:
woa....guess you dont know much about high class operations such as this one
very few of these are run by organized crime....they like using massage parlors and brothels, which dont raise le eyebrows
none of these women was being exploited
if the owners are guilty of money laundering, its because they are greedy idiots...
but the investigation did not start with the escort agency....it started with spitzer
joe @ 49:
If she was of age and willingly got on the train herself, I don't think the Mann Act would apply. I'm not an attorney.
Just visited FOX news.com (and I need a shower)
They're having one of the bigger circle jerks over Spitzer
Fair and Balanced once again!
He is supposed to be above reproach in both his personal and his professional life. If this is true then it doesn't matter how they caught the guy it only matters that he broke the law and the trust of the people that he serves and his family especially his wife (who is beautiful I might add). I don't give a rats ass about what this republican did or how that republican got away with such and such. Doing what is good and righteous in this world and being open, thoughtful and generous towards others is what being a Democrat means to me and I consider it the moral equivalent of an opposable thumb. It is what seperates us from beasts.
LarryB @ 56:
Nonsense. I didn't follow the Vitter thing, but there was a chorus of calls from Democrats for Craig to resign. From conservatives too. He actually die resign, sorta kinda. Then the sleazy weasel took it back.
Progressives had better have higher standards then scumbags like Craig, Vitter and Mark Foley. Political attack job or no, Spitzer broke the law. He has no one to blame but himself. He's delusional if he thinks he can stay in office.
Searching For Media Hypocrisy,
Fox and Propaganda Friends ( Doocy ) Falsely Claims Vitter Prostitute Scandal Led To ‘06 Losses
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/11/doocy-vitter-hypocrisy/
LarryB @ 77:
Then how are you not calling for his resignation?
No the timing of this isn't a coincidence. No not at all.
Report: Spitzer Met With Call Girls 7 Or 8 Times: "Spitzer had at least seven or eight liaisons over the last several years with prostitutes supplied by an international call girl ring based in New Jersey, according to sources familiar with the investigation into Spitzer's relationship with the ring," Newsday reports.
has the patriot act caught one real terrorist?
Word on K-street is that Cheney's goon is very hard at work, and this is not the last. This is the first salvo. There are others to come in coming months.
You don't think that wiretapping immunity clause is only used to protect us from terrorism only do you? Of course not, that law is especially created and targeted to spy on dissidents and opponents of Bush. And now, that clause is beginning to bear fruits.
Why hasn't the Mann Act been declared unconstitutional? Prostitution and exploitation are not gender specific crimes, yet this law only speaks to a female victim. Seems like this violates 14th ammendment guarantee of equal protection under the law. Lawyers?
I don't have a Spitzer opinion yet, though as a New Yorker - how could he have been so dumb - anyway I just wonder when the Dept of Justice devotes time to bring down politicians based on their sex-lives they take their eye off the ball and serious things start to happen, like planes flying into buildings.
As Cenk of the Young Turks says... "I'm just sayin'......"
This is definitely a disappointment, yet I believe he is safe in his office.
1) He admitted his transgression.
2) It did not involve being caught red handed with a 'dead hooker' or a 'young boy', the traditional metric (however absurd) of whether a pol should step down.
I enumerate the above, because as we know, the Republicans have denied first no matter what the evidence, and attempted cover ups in their defense, blowing a simple misdemeanor into felony territory.
The detail of the investigation have not been completely revealed as it is an ongoing investigation and trial. There is an obvious partisanship in the revelation, as we know Justice has been politicized. This revelation serves the political interest of Republicans all over, especially NY.
Currently the NY Democrats need one seat to evenly split the state Senate. If Spitzer resigns, current Lieutenant Governor, Democrat David Paterson the tie breaking vote in that scenario becomes Governor. Spitzer's nemesis Bruno becomes Lieutenant Governor creating the situation that the Democrats need to pick up two seats in the Senate instead of one this fall to have a majority.
This revelation also serves the revenge aspect of the prostitution ring as Spitzer seriously clamped down on this type of organized crime. Also prostitution is well known tactic in CoIntelPro and opposition research to corrupt targets further through bribery. (See the Franklin Banking Scandal of Bush I and the current Don Siegelman case).
These revelations and quick admittance by Spitzer indicate to me he was not able to be bribed and he has a conscience.
No one is asking the question "Who else has been involved that has not been revealed?" Just remember the Palfrey case where hundreds of names were not revealed. So why was Spitzer exposed in this? It served a political purpose for a politicized Justice department. Sorry, you can not separate the politics from this.
Patronizing a prostitute is not a jailing offense, it is a small fine. With cooperation and quick public confession, would mitigate any possible harsh penalty in front of a fair judge So to call for other sanctions further politicizes the event.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 89:
Uhhhh don't think so!
President George W. Bush said Monday that he was sending Vice President Dick Cheney to the Middle East to raise concerns about oil prices.
The Bush administration is struggling to revive an American economy that is sagging under the weight of a housing slump, rising prices and a credit crisis, and it has had little luck persuading OPEC to increase production levels.
To the angry Spitzer haters here -
Hope you're happy. Mike Bloomberg is readying his 2010 gubernatorial campaign. That little putz still has a political future.
Spitzer is expected to resign today.
It's not a victory for us Democrats. It's another kick in the balls.
No need to choose sides here. Spitzer should resign, whether he was set up or not. If he was set up, the people who did it should be prosecuted.
Annoyed Canuck @ 85:
JFK would have be in total agreement....about the delusion that is.
Progressives DO have higher standards than fucking children and living double lives like Craig Vitter & Foley and the list of about 100 or more others in the repuke party that are turned on by anything in a bonnet.
L.A. Confidential @ 94:
What we need to do is just let the whole god damn thing collapse so the Cons won't be able to blame it on the Dems or whoever next year.
If we stop shopping and blowing money as of today, (only buy necessities) by June Bush Co will be fighting off Torches and Hounds.
Dhalgren @ 58:
My point is, government needs to stay the hell out of the bedroom. Doesn't matter whether it's a Dem or a GOPer poking around. Stay out.
While I believe the Gov should resign simply because anyone who deliberately assumes a position of power and authority over making and executing laws of how people behave, yet breaks those laws should at a minimum be horsewhipped publicly, I would be delighted to find out that there was some political shenanigans going on. That would be most entertaining to watch unfold and play out.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 89:
Well, some guy did get arrested for buying too much pseudoephedrine. Now, my guess he was making meth, not bombs - but, that law is in the Patriot Act. Remember when they said it would be "temporary" and only for investigating terrorism?
CoIntelPro - CLIENT#10 @ 63:
Butch dropped the Haves, its now the Have-mores and the Have-it-alls.
You can't be involved in criminal activities when someone, such as organized crime figures that usually run these things, can blackmail you. Put the office at risk, what a shame. He'll now live off his father's money.
I don't know that he should resign. Prostitution is illegal, but widely tolerated in Washington. I mean, Vitter was able to treat it as simply a family matter. And, in actuality, Vitter's and Spitzer's personal problems probably don't really effect their professional performance.
On the other hand, I do think that it is important for Democrats to hold themselves to a higher standard. So, if he resigned, I think it would be a very powerful symbolic gesture.
wild_idea @ 90:
You may be right. That would also explain the reluctance of key Dems to pull the plug on warrantless wiretapping.
lj @ 52:
Since Client 9 was so easy to figure out (according to the ever-modest MSM), who are Clients 1-8 & 10 thru ??? Nobody in the MSM interested in anyone except this hypocrite? He's the only high-profile rich guy among the clients? Inquiring minds ya know. If you strike gold in one spot, do you assume you got it all & go home?
We're due a Larry Flint counter attack any day now.
wild_idea @ 90:
Sources please
L.A. Confidential @ 98:
I'm way ahead of you. Where am I vacationing this year? Mexico.
Another male hypocrite who will have to explain his double standards to his wife and children.
Another power-hungry risk-taker who thought he could get away with the risks he was taking, and probably enjoyed the intense excitement of doing it.
As a public servant, he should have behaved in a manner that was beyond reproach - expecting that this kind of thing would happen if he did not.
Too bad we will lose his considerable talents.
I have no idea what to say about legalizing prostitution. That would seem to encourage continuation of a system in which males dominate and subjugate women to satisfies their own needs. I'm not at all in favor of that.
Annoyed Canuck @ 85:
I did follow "the Vitter thing" and you're remembering it wrong. Democrats were howling, but only because of the self-serving political calculations that had Republicans defending Vitter (whose replacement would be chosen by a Democratic Governor) while hounding Craig out of office (where the G. is a Repub.). Outside of the swamp of the DU comment threads, I was only able to come up with one reference to support your point. It's true that the Idaho Democratic committee called for Craig's resignation, but only AFTER he had been censured by the Senate Ethics committee.
joe @ 108:
Oh man the Bush Cabal would never do anything like that now would they Joe?
Lie down with dogs - get up with fleas.
He should resign, not because the law he broke was prostitution, he should resign because he broke the law. Think about it, this man deliberately chose to make a career out of punishing those who broke the law, then went on to seek and gain the office of governor which give him even more authority over people and how they should live their lives. If he is unable to live by the morality of upholding the law, he shouldn't have the authority of enforcing it. For me its not an issue that the crime was prostitution, its just that he's proven unworthy to be an officer of the law. If you don't have standards for your elected officials, you're elected officials will all be crooks. If it were up to me, ANY person that holds elected office that is caught breaking the law would be set adrift on a raft, citizenship revoked.
No one but no one is bringing up the questions Jane asks. Why not? I think they are very valid questions, especially about the bank turning in Spitzer to the IRS. How much money are we talking about? Why was the bank monitoring the man's account?
If you are a hypocrite and apparently he was you deserve what you get, but it is strange HOW this came about.
Filthy Harry @ 100:
Anything to distract from the living abortion in the WH and crimes against the country
it's like a Picasso drawn by a monkey on acid.
That's why rethugs and Bluedogs fouling both Houses will experience mass/extensive fumigation in '08. They're so busy distracting from their incompetent perversion of their offices they don't get that THEY are about to be run out of a job.
Filthy Harry @ 114:
Probably something in the water supplies. Mood stabilizers combined with sex hormones doesn't sound like a balanced combination.
This is not the way our system was meant to work.
I live in Arizona ...
Spitzer is governor of a state that I have never visited.
I 'have' three politicians - McCain, Kyl and Giffords (I am doomed), and none of them is Spitzer.
A USA has no business blocking investigations into financial wrong doing by a counter investigation.
I dont care how I am politically registered - if they break the law, prosecute them.
People, the problem ISNT that your party isnt in power. The problem IS that political parties RUN EVERYTHING. That is a politburo. This system WAS NOT designed to do that. It is broken precisely because of and by the control of political parties. This is decidedly NOT democratic. Only the rich and corporations have control of ANY political party - I dont.
Whether Spitzer resigns is up to the people of New York State.
Does Spitzer talk like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqBuuVGCx4k
rain @ 113:
Go to be with itchy bottom, wake up with stinky fingers
Or Larry Craig.
wild_idea @ 90:
They caught Larry Craig in the act again?
No. 44 @ 110:
it is when prostitution is illegal that women are subjugated
The IRS is itself illegal. Wiretaps are illegal. Let's take this opportunity to make prostitution legal so we can get on with the ACTUAL business of the country.
Can we call on Clinton to RENOUNCE and REJECT (and maybe denounce and eject?) Spitzer's support?
Ron @ 82:
The trouble with the Mann act is anyone who crosses state lines with even a long term girlfriend and check into a motel together is liable to be prosecuted.
teknikAL @ 93:
Thanks for the NY history lesson which sheds more light on what's going on behind the scenes. Non-NY'ers wouldn't necessarily know all that since it's not reported to the rest of us. Regardless of Spitzer's situation, it's just really curious that nobody else has had such profuse graphic details come out of this investigation. Not a single person. Not a single detail. To alot of people, that's beyond strange for the govt to spend so much time & money yet only catch one big fish. The media's so consumed with replaying what they have & keeping up the drumbeat for him to resign, they're not bothering to consider looking for the other clients. They're either lazy or stupid. No Wall Street types? No other politicians? No foreign officials? No religious leaders? Just some anonymous Regular Joes with thousands of dollars in spare change to spend on internet prostitution?
gumby @ 1:
I confirmed this with my girlfriend who is a personal banker and has had to file one of these reports. She said though that usually something really suspicious has to occur before they take this initiative. She mentioned check kiting but she also mentioned transfers to potential terrorist groups (mostly they report large internation transfers or transfers of $10,000 cash or more).
The SARS go up to the top of the bank food chain and they then issue this to the Government (IRS?) as per Patriot Act law.
None of these seems to fit Spitzer who had a decent amount of money and likely did wire transfers frequently. She was of the belief that there was someone inside his bank that might have been tipping off the feds before they chose to go with a wiretap. Surely there are people inside banks that have political opinions and Spitzer has done a lot of damage to some of the higher profile corporate friends and clients of these banks and their staff. Not to mention the possibility that someone politically opposed to Spitzer contacted a very eager DOJ that is scouting for Democrats to convict.
This whole thing smells fishy to me. There's something to the idea that Spitzer was going to be investigated heavily whether or not he hired prostitutes.
This entire DOJ needs to be dismissed on day one of the next administration.
-Rp
No. 44 @ 110:
If you were to talk to the legal prostitutes, they see it the direct opposite, as a system in which the females dominate and subjugate men to satisfy their own needs. Of course I'm disqualifying the sociological piece of internalized sexism, just pointing out a flaw in your argument.
The fact is also evident that these escorts were well paid, not some disparate, poor option less individual.
Yet this thread is not a discussion of prostitution, but of politicization of justice....
"Another male hypocrite who will have to explain his double standards to his wife and children."
Does that make for quadruple standards for those hundreds of rethugs popped for dipping their wick in the toilet?
Slamma @ 87:
Simple. The only thing (at this point) that Spitzer is accused of is consorting with a hooker. I don't consider this to be an act that rises (heh) to the level of public malfeasance. I don't buy the "but he didn't bust them == corruption" argument. Hypocritical? Yes. Sleazy? Yes. Criminal? Stretching it. Corrupt? No. Bottom line: It's up to Spitzer and his constituents to decide whether they want to keep on a publicly effective but personally hypocritical and sleazy Governor.
ysbaddaden @ 120:
Mmmmm...nothing like the smell of shit in the morning.
Called it!!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/10/gov-eliot-spitzer-presser-apolo...
Not that it takes a real brain sturgeon to have seen that coming, but still.
:)
Friggin' crybaby repugs.
Bushed! @ 124:
Already done, website is scrubbed.
As long as its not a kid or a corpse, I don't care who any politician is fucking. "Sex scandal" should be an oxymoron. I don't even want to fucking hear about it.
From US Treasury Regulations:
31 CFR § 103.63 (prohibits the structuring of transactions to avoid the currency reporting requirement):
Regulatory History: See 52 Fed. Reg. 11446 (Apr. 8, 1987), as amended 54 Fed. Reg. 3027 (Jan. 23, 1989).
See generally FFIEC, Online BSA/AML Examination Manual, Appendix G, in part:
See also 3.10.08 TPM post on 'structuring'
So is he going to resign for sure? Why doesn't he just hang in there like Sen. Craig did? Or is it only a repug who would refuse to acknowledge reality like an adult?
For the record, I didn't care if Sen. Craig resigned or not. Out: good. In: bad for the repugs, and that is very good. Other than that, none-my-biznizz who he wants to have one off with. But I do leave lots of room for those who would argue that Sen. Craig should have quit just for the sheer hypocrisy of his situation and if that is the criteria, then Spitzer oughtta pack up his stapler, too.
Spitzer should quit, he screwed the pooch on this one. However; Call me paranoid, but I do have questions as to why the bank would notify the IRS over a few thousand dollar transaction, particularly in light of the Justice Dept. that is an extension of the GOP.
rain @ 113:
At $4,400 hundred a pop, that must be one fine lookin' dog.
Talk about spitzing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-oTQl7f4w
People like Spitzer who, as Greenwald says, agressively prosecute their exact behavior are what is fundamentally wrong with our politicians and holier-than-thou-Americans generally. If they would simply preach what they practice we wouldn't have BS prostitution laws, war on drugs non-sense, et al. distracting us from the raping our nation is receiving at the hand of war profiteers and corrupt, inept politicians/hacks. When the junior senator of my great state David Vitter was caught doing exactly the sort of shit he ran against we rightly condemned him as the poster-boy of the Republican addiction to hypocrisy. His failure to resign will rightly be an issue in 2010. Spitzer's having a D next to his Gov. title doesn't preclude him from the exact same criticism we rightly lumped upon Vitter, and his failure to resign will only hurt his party and his political goals. Ignoring this fact makes the very troubling questions surrounding this outing which Digby and others have noted more difficult to ask. We also lose on framing this issue as political hypocrisy, which, notwithstanding Spitzer, is still all-but-monopolized by the Republican party.
Let's keep the old standard: Don't be a hypocrite.
This is gooder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDHBDRwmuwU
This is too bad and it should be unnecessary. Leave his life and personal dealing alone.
Women are subjugated bacause they have been forced underground without the legal protections provided to citizens.
You don't see liquor distributors shooting it out on the streets, do you? No. That is because prohibition was repealed and their is no longer an underground market for liquor or a need to handle, what would be, business disputes with violence or intimidation.
Joementum @ 138:
I understand soon that about how much it'll cost to buy a bottle of Coke.
Spitzer will get prosecuted for doing what 75 million men do every single day; buying pussy.
Do they fellate your flagellum?
There is no proof Spitzer was involved with running a prostitution RING. He went to a hooker.
Where is the outrage about Dick Cheney and the DC Madam? His phone number was on her phone records.
History, history, history...think back to whitewater where the rethuglians did everything possible to nail Bill & Hill, $245 million later, they had squat. They later got Bill cause he had the termity to get a little head in the WH. Now spitzer, we know has not been in lockstep with the idiots of the repug right, so if there was a way to nail him, they would use it. Think also about the ex-governor down in Alabama who rove el al used trumped up charges to send to prison. The fired govt. attorney's, two of whom helped send randy cunningham to prison. Hey you do not have to be a rocket scientist to see the connection. This is a mean and nasty group in power. I just wish at least one of the bunch would go to prison and have to be big charlie's gurl..preferably turdblossom.
Who are clients 1 thru 8 and 10 thru ??????????????
If its not a witch hunt, then these names should be out in the open too.
Let him live and govern with the shame. It will make him a humbled Governor. Then fire him if he doesn't measure up. He got his on this for his attack dog methods on NYC people. He was the one who advocated going after Martha Stewart and he used a Stanford Univ biz school paper as his proof to do it, not the law.
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