More violence in Iraq
By John Amato Saturday Mar 22, 2008 8:00pmBut didn't Lindsey Graham say the surge is working? (h/t Atrios)
Rockets and mortars pounded Baghdad's U.S.-protected Green Zone Sunday and a suicide car bomber struck an Iraqi army post in the northern city of Mosul in a surge of attacks that killed at least 57 people nationwide.
The deadliest attack of the day was in Mosul when a suicide driver slammed his vehicle through a security checkpoint in a hail of gunfire and detonated his explosives in front of an Iraqi headquarters building, killing 13 Iraqi soldiers and injuring 42 other people, police said.
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Apparently the terists' have their own surge, too.
And it's working!
A surge of talking points.
I thought that, seeing he'd drunk some of the water KBR provided for the troops, Gramham said that the purge was working. Never mind.
Way to be fair crooksandliars. Clearly in order for the surge to work, there cannot be any violence whatsoever. Ever.
You guys are like fox news for Democrats.
Some would say they blew themselves up there, because we are free here. Of course, others believe in unicorns. What a world we live in.
Awakening members have not been paid, and are getting restless. This is about as stupid as dissolving the army in the first place.
.
The "SURGE" is working at:
~ A mesmerizing talking point
~ Reshaping insurgency by arming BOTH sides of the "civil-war"
~ Keeping the violence alive and well so that America may "STAY THE COURSE"
.
KC @ 4:
But, but, but KC, WHERE'S THE POLITICAL SOLUTION the surge was designed to allow room for?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...... Nothing but crickets...
.
The 'surge'? has been effective for one reason...kicking the war can down the road past the 08 election. Same thing for money presses printing out buckets of dollars to keep the recession at bay until after the election. Blood and money for time...to control the oil.
This was the very last throe.
KC @ 4:
KC @ 5:
That's funny. Know why? Because you think you just said something insightful or inteligent.
You didn't.
Since no objective has been stated- of course the surge is 'working', how could an endless war fail? Well, other than ending, that is.
KC @ 4:
Since the whole point of the "surge" was to win time for Iraq to get its POLITICAL house in order (which clearly hasn't happened), the Bushies are touting the reduction in violence as "proof" the "surge" is working.
The reduction in violence is more honestly attributed to the fact that we're paying the Sunnis to stop shooting at us and to shoot at al Qaeda instead.
Now that the U.S. isn't keeping its part of the bargain, the violence against us will once again increase.
Hey, I've got an idea: why don't we just pay EVERYONE to stop fighting long enough for us to bring the troops home? That way we can say we won and can revel in what a great thing we did for Iraq (snark.)
But!
http://tinyurl.com/2hnbvr
How can some people be so friggin stupid. If Americans actually believe the surge is working were all doomed. Can't people think for themselves? How long can we sustain our troop levels. Unless they implement the draft, oue military is destroyed
Well, Lindsey probably picked up his five rugs for five dollars on his trip. However, the ten dollars per person per day that the taxpayers are paying to the Iraqis' to stop the violence does not go as far as it used to or worse yet they have not gotten their paychecks at all.
I think it is rather obvious that despite all the claims by Bush, Cheney and McCain that the Surge is working it is not working simply because there is no political solution, we are going to drastically limit the number of troop reductions in July, people are on their fourth tours of duty and getting burnt out and attacks on civilians and soldiers and police are continuing.
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
LA, I just took a look at your but. Nice!
Graham's performance was a disgrace. He claimed;
Oil revenue is up in Iraq...thanks for the $100+ oil Lindsey!
The surge was responsible for the Sunni awakening....bald face lie
We must "win" to diminish Iranian influence in the region....it used to be called Saddam Hussein
Those were the worst of his propaganda lying that I could remember.
Why won't Bush and Company let Iraqis run their own country now that they have been liberated?
Are we their daddy?
KC @ 4:
Let's turn this around on you KC. How many more American soldier and Iraqi civilian deaths do you think necessary for you to say the surge isn't working?
The "surge" is not working or not working. It's an obsolete and over-simplified term that's come to be equated with the effort as a whole. With all this focus on a "surge" as the barometer of "success" the occupation as a whole is given default legitimacy by implying that there was ever something that was legitimate to apply a "surge" to. Did that make sense?
So much for the DUH SERGE IS WORKING talking point. Dumbasses
Jim Guckert @ 7:
You mean like this?
50,000 US armed resistant fighters strong and getting pissed.
.
Serge is working. He got a job at Wal Mart.
Minor typo: It's NY Times, not NT Times. :)
We just reached the 4000th U.S. serviceperson death in Iraq. Surge is really working for them!
Send Jenna and Barbara......
The surge of electricity killing a US soldiers taking a shower courtesy of KBR and the surge of no bid government contracts going to Halliburton are the only surges that have worked in Iraq thus far.
The war will pay for itself- we will be greeted as liberators- WMDs- er, I mean, the surge is working.
Tell another one.
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 28:
Cheney's going to get a 3:00 am wake up call to release another bin Laden tape.
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 28:
:(
;)
Let me see...
4,000 dead in 5 years...
5 goes into 100 20 times...
20 times 4,000 is
80,000 dead by the time McCain will be ready to leave.
The "surge" (bribing opposing factions with cash and weapons) is proving about as successful as Afghanistan. Invade, destroy government and try to rebuild with corrupt yes-men doesn't work. It's never worked. Won't work now. Won't work every. It is beyond disturbing when governments repeat the same mistakes over and over hoping for different outcomes.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 33:
Of course i should point out that US casualties were rather low during our first five years in Vietnam and then increased dramatically.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 33:
The scariest part of your scenario, is those numbers are low IF Iraqis all decide they've had enough of the occupation and decide it's time to "surge" themselves.
ConcernedCanuck @ 36:
Yes.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 26:
Nice one, x. Maybe they meant all along that the "Sarge" is working. That would explain alot.
Well, maybe we can start up a Statehood Movement. I wonder how much that would cost?
I know where the military can find 5 strapping young lads of fighting age to send to the front lines. Romney's boys. He said they couldn't serve because they were helping him on his campaign but they're free now.
When everything was going to hell at work, one of my co-workers would always chime in "It's working!"
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 39:
No, that won't work. The Governor would insist on being sworn in on the Koran and Fox News would go ape shit.
Ruthless People @ 40:
No. That won't work. Romney is hoping to be named the Vice Presidential candidate and if he is they will needed to serve here at home.
Can't you people get it through your thick heads that the SURGE IS WORKING??? Because if there were no "SURGE", instead of 57 killed in one day, there might have been like FIVE HUNDRED killed in one day...
George W. Bush is truly a MILITARY GENIUS. He is spreading liberty, as he promised, and bringing freedom to all those wonderful Iraqi people. And who cares if it bankrupts the US, those people WANT liberty, and it warms my heart to know they will have it in the 100 years McCain promised we would be there.
The "surge" = adding 30k US troops to offset withdrawals from other countries.
DOES ANYBODY THINK THAT PALTRY ADDITION OF TROOPS HAD ANY EFFECT?
No.
What did happen is that we gave the Shiites everything they wanted politically, and gave billions to the Sunnis as a consolation prize.
An additional leg of the triangle was that we promised to get out after '09.
If McCain is ahead in the polls, the deal will be off.
Our beleaguered troops will be back in the maelstrom going against better equipped (by our money) and better trained (by our soldiers) insurgents.
Unlike the pre-surge war, there were almost no set piece battles against the insurgents during the surge (like Baghdad, Najaf, Sadr City and Falluja). They melted into the woodwork to live and fight another day. Time is on their side. Why? Because the US cannot afford to attrit trillions when the economy is heading over a cliff! The insurgents were born in Iraq and unlike our soldiers they will grow old and die there.
Time is and has always been on their side.
We've turned it over to the Shiites, we've given the Sunnis their consolation prize, now let's complete the bargain by getting out!
KC @ 4:
The claims of the surge are revealed to be false. You're welcome to attempt to defend them. Or shut your yap. Whatever works for ya.
Hey, why not spread the surge around?
Sun Mar 23, 9:09 AM ET
LONDON (AFP) - The US plans to urge Britain to launch a "surge" in Basra to combat increasing violence in the southern Iraqi region, the Sunday Mirror newspaper reported.
Sure, why not. Here a surge, there a surge, everywhere a surge surge.........OOooooo...Old Dick Cheney has a surge, eiei O....
The thing about McCain and Bush is they will never be able to solve the war because they do not understand it. They do not understand the players. They don’t get the dynamics of country being invade by foreign powers. What would happen if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq immediately? What would happen next? I think this is what would happen - The Shia tell Iran "Thanks for the help, now leave. Get out of our country." That is the part the neocon war mongers can't seem to understand. Everybody says that Iran will take over Iraq. Or they will have so much influence that Iraq will essentially become part of Iran. Well that will NOT happen. Iraq is Iraq. They don't want to be told what to do by Iran. Just like they don’t want to be told what to do by the U.S. Remember when Saddam invaded Kuwait, Saudi Arabia let the U.S. stage in their country to throw Saddam out of Kuwait. And Egypt helped the coalition in that war. Both those countries are Sunni. Saddam was Sunni. In fact Egypt harbored an exiled Saddam many years ago but Egypt helped throw Saddam out of Kuwait. Being from the same sect did not help Saddam. Saddam didn't listen to Saudi Arabia when it came to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia is Sunni like Saddam. Saudi Arabia let the coalition stage in Saudi Arabia to attack Saddam, a Sunni. Why would Iraq listen to any other country, i.e. Iran or Syria or anybody else? Why would they let Iran tell them what to do? So you see that just because part of Iraq and Iran are the same sect you cannot assume that Iraqi Shia will let Iranian Shia tell them what to do. The Iraqis are only letting Iran help them because Iraq wants the U.S. out! As far as the Kurds go they have it figured out. They're having BBQ on Saturday nights (probably). And the Sunni? They will have to figure out how to have their own area. Joe Bidden knows how this will work out. Most of them have left the country anyway. It will work out without us. And Al Qaeda? you may ask. Well the Iraqis will kick their sorry butts out in a matter of hours after the U.S. leaves. The Iraqis hate Al Qaeda as much as they hate the U.S. for invading. You can bet your bottom $ that no Iraqi will be told what to do by some Al Qaeda nut who all of Iraq hate. McCain does not even know who Al Qaeda is. Obviously the same is true with Bush. All you will see of Al Qaeda is the dust they kick up as they run for Afghanistan. Iraq will kick Al Qaeda out just like they will do to the Iranians, "Thanks for the help. Now get the hell out." The neocon war profiteers don't get it or they want this war to continue for financial reasons. You know this. I know this. 82% of the U.S. knows this. Getting out is the dilemma. The Republicans thinkthat staying in is the delima. Remember Iraq was better off with Saddam. I've said it many times. Nobody wanted to say it at the time but it is true. Let's pack it up and leave tomorrow. You are either with me or... um... ah... won't get fooled again.
according to bush/cheney and the gop terms, there were no deaths here,
because these people were not shot. so to the fuckedup gop ZERO violence.
bush/cheney shove your heads up each other's ass, we are tired of your shit.
KC @ 5:
You're like a gaping mouth for attracting flies. Stupid. Vapid. Tepid.
Four U.S. soldiers were killed in Baghdad today, putting the U.S. death toll at 4,000 since the invasion in 2003, reports MSNBC.
Francis @ 51:
Actually they were killed a day or so ago. Their deaths were confirmed today.
Seems with all our high tech medical equipment it only takes a day or two, now, to pronounce a corpse to be indeed dead.
We actually have 4008 dead right now but 8 are awaiting confirmation.
This site has been dead on accurate for the last four plus years.
Speaking of whether or not the surge is working,
How is the State Department recruitment problem for staffing the Embassey in Baghdad going?
Anyone?
An Average Joe @ 54:
I have no idea, but i do remember that conversation. Good point!
The surge is not working, either to solve the political crises or stop the violence. Most posters on this site would agree. But what's up with the "Ha! See I told you so!" attitude after people die. That's the way it looks to me, not really giving a damn about people dying but rather enjoying the chance to laugh at the republicans.
The Headlines speak volumes.
KC @ 5:
And you're like a moron .........No , let me apologize and correct that.
You are a complete fucking moron.
Joe Tseng @ 56:
I don't see it as a "Ha! I told you so!" thing at all. It could be construed that way, but i see it differently.
It is more of a, "Change the Policy!" kind of thing.
Personally i would like us to rebuild Iraq, but i am afraid we are going to be in a depression long before that can happen.
Kc@ 4 says way to be fair? Thats a joke right? With the weapons makers, war mongers and gop having almost total control of what is broadcast, I would bet we hear only a small percentage of any negative news coming out of Iraq. Fox news dems? Your neo-slip is showing, I didn't see any post that was a lie or people just making shit up as pox news is guilty of on a giant scale. I urge you to go see for yourself if you think the surge is working. It will give you the opportunity to show the world how much real confidence you have in our(and I use the term jokingly) media. Heres hoping you make it back alive
MCMetal @ 58:
Glad to see you because i wanted to explain something to you. I was not correcting you on the State Departme/Department of State thing the other day because i wanted to make you look bad. Your opinion is important (and i happen to agree with it) but i don't want you to go around calling Bush an idiot when he is correct.
I hope you understand what i am driving at.
Newsflash…
Through carefully studying US secret government archives that demonstrate conclusively that the Imperial US government has never before promoted democracy abroad. That the US government has never been comfortable dealing with elected governments and has always preferred right wing autocrats, installing them whenever deemed expedient. George Bush this afternoon realized the error of his ways.
Consequently, in order to end the sectarian violence, guarantee that all elements of al Qaeda in Iraq are decisively eliminated and to definitively hold Iran at bay, it has thus been decided that what Iraq needs is Sadam Hussein.
A call had gone out to central casting for a body double. According to reliable sources, Sadam will be reinstalled as President of Iraq later this week when it will be revealed that his supposed execution was actually fabricated.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
CEO,citizens,eyes,open @ 60:
KC came.
He shat.
Refusing to wipe his ass
He left.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 61:
But he isn't correct........That's the problem with the loser.
The vernacular he used made his already colossal idiocy seem even greater.
He's starting to sound like an immigrant with a very faint grasp of the English language ; as if his incompetence as president hasn't been enough.........
MCMetal @ 64:
Ok, i am going to say this one more time and drop it.
You are incorrect. Department of State is the correct title just as Department of Defense (also know as DOD) is the correct title. In fact Defense Department and State Department is less formal.
KC @ 5:
The great difference here is that, for the most part, C&L readers are as informed as possible in a sea of MSM soundbytes and $hit. The problem is that most of America doesn't have the will or want to become informed.
I have yet to hear from all or any who agree with Bush on this war. Just what has to happen for VICTORY to be declared. What are the guidelines? Is VICTORY just an excuse to keep this war going till after November 2008? Or maybe if McCain gets in the W.H. a VICTORY will magically happen in January 2009.
What is VICTORY? Bush keeps tossing this word around but what does he mean? I must have missed the press conference where he explained it in detail.
Hussein Hussein @ 66:
I like your name.
Reminds me of a song i heard:
Obama Bama
Bo Bama
Be Bi Bo
Bama
Obama!
liberAL @ 67:
Much like Bush's moral compass, it does not mean a thing.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 65:
"Men and women of the Department of State are here as well."
That is clumsy and incorrect English.
You are incorrect ; now drop it.
MCMetal @ 70:
No, that is not incorrect English. I don't know where the hell you went to school, but i wish you would post it online so people can keep their children from attending.
If you used English incorrectly i would not correct you especially if i understood what you meant, but your claim that Bush, in this instance, was incorrect is absolutely wrong.
liberAL @ 67:
This war is not about victory. This war is about war profiteering. The profiteers have victory every day.
The US taxpayer is yet to pay the bill, except the taxes of the flagging economy.
Taxes have not been raised, we are paying for the war with the credit card.
This the sublime beauty of the thing, solely from the standpoint of the profiteers.
It is an enormous Ponzi scheme but it is the US taxpayer of the future who is being fleeced.
In Iraq, on March 15 of 2003, there were no WMD and there was no al Qaeda. There was oil and there was Sadam, who had nothing to do with 9/11.
And there was a huge opportunity for war profits and stolen oil profits.
We have been snookered. Iraq has been destroyed.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 71:
Perhaps "W" can take an English course in prison, then get back with both of you concerning the most acceptable wording. Then we could all be happy.
Hussein Hussein @ 74:
There are myriad thing Bush is wrong about. I refuse to agree he is wrong about something he is not.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 71:
That is , and you really shouldn't be criticizing and are in no position to be critical of others and their education.
The proper form is "from" the Department of State ; not "of" , twice. Had he used "State Department , the word "of" (used singularly) , is correct.
I suggest people like yourself shouldn't critique those that attended college , when you're a pre-K drop-out..........
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 75:
It would help if you had any clue what you're talking about ........You do not in this instance.
Serge called in sick.
liberAL @ 67:
to bush VICTORY is the complete and systematice destruction of
the United States, the Constitution and Democracy in America.
he is a fucking fascist/dictator with too many hands up his ass.
MCMetal @ 77:
Just lay out your degree in English so we can see your expertice and i will stop. In the meantime you are wrong.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 80:
It's "expertise" , Shakespeare"S"...............I don't believe anyone that cannot spell a simplistic word such as that has any credence when trying to correct others on sentence structure.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 80:
the first indication of the demise of a particular civilization is the
coruption of it's language. the particular form of english in America
has been under attack for decades now. many on this list have very
informed views of the past and how that effects the current events.
there are also many who make daily gramatical errors and i include
myself. many of the typing errors on this list can just be attributed
to typing too fast and not taking the time to proof what we have
written. it is more important to understand the opinion being expressed,
then to belittle the author's minor language flaws.
this is not directed to any individual. so, if some are offended, then read it
again and understand.
I hate to interrupt this enlightening discussion of 3rd grade English, but…
Actually, by insisting that the surge is working, they are misspeaking (so what else is new?). Instead of the surge is working, they mean to say the surge has worked and is over, and of course has been successful. It’s simply a matter of confusing present and past tense. Now all we have to do is repeat the cycle for the next hundred years or until the United States no longer exists, whichever comes first.
How about we call call them both what they are. Butcher shops.
Max-Hussein-1 @ 25:
they are traitors and colaboraters anyway , so are the assholes whove sold out here to bush!
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 14:
I can't wait to see what the repugs will say when the "surge" begins to collapse later this year...just in time for our elections. We will have withdrawn, out of necessity, all of the troops we added for the surge. The Sunnis will run out of patience from the lack of political reconciliation (the Shiites have a ever-strengthening hand and will not let any power sharing deals last). Then watch the carnage happen again. Hey KC, unlike Fox we intelligently discuss facts here.
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 35:
nonsence! mcculls will be dead long before that and his vice president joe liberdouche will have to finnish that up !
dadams @ 82:
I agree with you and in fact that is my point. When Bush equates Al Qeada with Saddam or Iraq or Iran THAT is when he is misusing and abusing the English language, all manner of facts and not a little logic. When he says something that another person is for whatever reason is unfamiliar with but is grammatically correct he should not be attacked for it. It is WAY beside the point even if, in fact, he was wrong. Which he wasn't.
Hannah Hussein @ 73:
You are absolutely correct. It's sad because Americans don't want to believe that their wonderful shining beacon of freedom and goodness of a country has been hoodwinked by corporate criminals and fascists into a cynical, crime of a war against another country. That we have become no better than the old colonial powers of Europe, or worse. Destroy Iraq and then reap the profits as you fleece you own people with fat contracts to "rebuild" it and take a permanent cut of its future oil profits.
Roket @ 83:
The United States, as conceived by its Founding Fathers ceased to exist the moment the Supreme Court of the United States appointed George W. Bush as President in 2000.
We have now reached the milestone of 4,000 dead. They want to be president so badly then Obama and Clinton need to come off the campaign trail and use every single thing they have to end this mess. Now. We made our voices known in 2,006 of our demand to end this horror show and nothing happened but more of the same. Pelosi and Reid have been so incredibly inept that they need to be replaced. The two democratic candidates must prove once and for all their leadership abilities to put a stop to this carnage before Jan 2009 because McCain could be the one elected. Stand up, speak up, demand, that the congress get off its collective butt and put an end to this miserable mess. My voice is not heard, your voice is not heard, but theirs will capture the attention of both houses. Politics aside, this needs to end. Somebody show some guts for once and do the right thing.
Pat J @ 91:
The Roman senate hath no power or courage in the shadow of Caesar and the Roman mob....
yakfitguy @ 92:
You got that right.
MCMetal @ 76:
Sorry, McMetal, you're wrong. I work for the Department of the Interior (informally known as the "Interior Department") and yes, the "State Department" is easier to say, but "Department of State" is the official title, just like the "Department of Commerce" is the official title, and "Commerce Department" is the informal title.
.....and, yes, "of" versus "from" is actually correct. I am an employee OF the Dept. of the Interior.
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 94:
Matt Hussein in Texas @ 95:
You are speaking from a 1st person narrative ; Chimpy doesn't work for the Department of State . (I doubt he's done any work in his entire existence ; but , that's another story)
I never claimed that it isn't called "the Department of State" , merely that his grammar was incorrect (as usual).
If I were introducing you , I would say he's FROM the Department of Interior ; not "of" it.......
xoites Hussein defends Constitution @ 88:
He is incorrect , and will remain that way , no matter how often you claim he isn't with all of your (non-existent) "expertice" ...............
RT's Bill Maher Takes On “Warrior” John McCain
3 min - Mar 23, 2008
in this week’s “New Rules.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-YbyhCTy9M
If the bickering that I see going on here is any indication of the state of the 'normal' americans in the US today then I see McCain getting sworn in next year. *sheesh*
SpankyTheMonkey @ 99:
Yeah but that's a clear indication that people here are still thinking. Argument and discussions are a sign of brain activity. Unlike the GOP camp where there's nothing because their brain stops to function. The people of America; those who are INTELLIGENT knows this and THAT debacle is a good source of information, it exposes the strength and weakness of a candidate not of the argument but the content of the argument itself, as for the GOP candidate he's quite because their camp has no talking points. That's a clear sign that all thinking process in that camp ceased to exist. That's a bad sign. The country has endured 8 years of brain dis functioned president and not hearing any sign of activity in the McCain camp is a bad, foreshadowing of what it's gonna look like if this Guy was allowed to cheat the election.
Didn't the Reslugs just say that Iraq was safe and going swimmingly??
That's why we no longer call it the "Green Zone." Now it's IZ (International Zone).
Wake up call, Russia is executing dissidents, We and Amerika are the same, The Governor of Alabama (true Governor) is proof we are no better then Russia.
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