The RNC gets a little touchy
By Steve Benen Sunday Mar 30, 2008 7:15amOn Friday, John McCain’s campaign unveiled its first general-election TV ad — the one that uses the word “American” one too many times — and the Democratic National Committee did what was expected: it responded by criticizing John McCain.
It wasn’t even an especially hard-hitting criticism. The DNC statement quoted Howard Dean calling McCain “another out of touch Bush Republican who promises four more years of the same failed leadership.” In light of the interrogation footage from Vietnam included in the ad, Dean added, “While we honor McCain’s military service, the fact is Americans want a real leader who offers real solutions, not a blatant opportunist who doesn’t understand the economy and is promising to keep our troops in Iraq for 100 years.”
This seemed pretty routine, which is why I found the Republican National Committee’s overheated response rather odd.
Frank Donatelli, the deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee (RNC), sought to drive a wedge between Dean and Sens. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) over the comments.
“Howard Dean owes John McCain an immediate apology and both Senators Clinton and Obama should unequivocally denounce this disgraceful attack,” said Donatelli.
The RNC added that Dean’s remarks amounted to a “character smear.”
Really? The Republican National Committee, of all people, believes it’s beyond the pale to call someone a “blatant opportunist”? Especially when the person is a “blatant opportunist”?
The RNC may protest, but McCain is probably the most shameless “blatant opportunist” in American politics today. Have Republicans even seen McCain’s flip-flop list? Does it not occur to them that he abandoned his principles — including rejecting legislation that he’s personally co-sponsored — for partisan gain?
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It should have said OLD “blatant opportunist”.
McCain surrendered and McCain co-operated with the enemy he is not a hero he is a coward, play the rest of the tape and see what he says.
It's pretty clear the reslugs only understand one thing and one strategy: war.
They create a war on something and consider it taken care of.
So the dems have a even handed response to what no doubt will be the first of many horrible mcstain commercials and the rnc only has one response: full on attack with all guns blazing.
Subtlety is not their strong point.
Not to mention that this is basically their entire strategy and has been for years.
Issues? Fuck that. Just respond to everything the other guy does by turning it into something negative.
Let's face it multiple generations of faux noise zombies are going to eat it up with spoons. That's what they're counting on.
The turnout of voters selecting our next nominee for president has me convinced that McCain doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell to win the presidency. The turnout of Democratic voters has shown to be, in most cases, twice as many as the GOP can muster to the polls. If this isn't a telling factor for the GE, I don't know what is.
This is just another, obvious sign for every one to see that the Republican Party has NOTHING for America.
The RNC gets a little touchy
Touched in the head?
I think it's safe to bet that the RNC response isn't reactionary, but calculated.
They want to make this all about personality. Specifically, they want to make McCain's persona appear to be unassailable and beyond reproach, so his opponents don't dare question it, and potential voters have an automatic negative reaction to anyone who does.
At the same time, of course, they'll be launching regular character attacks at Dems, smearing them as America-bashers, unpatriotic, un-Christian, either effeminate or masculine (whatever the appropriate denigration is), etc, etc, etc.
That's b/c trying to prop McCain up as the battle-scarred war god, living embodiment of Ronald Reagan + John Wayne + Jesus Christ - and trying to cast the Dem as the next anti-Christ, is the only thing they've got. They know they can't win on the issues. Unfortunately they're really good at this and it's certainly worked again and again.
RNC theme song?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9JvhsCTxpA
So Republicans are going to cry if we pick on their candidate? This sounds like a winning strategy.
The republicans will be feeling so lonely they'll be singing this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTneO6UgRuM
How dare Dean attack their grandpa puppet...
The one who can't stand by himself for fear he'll say something the party will regret.
Perhaps the RNC has purchase regret for having McCain to push rather than someone better. I'm waiting with baited breath to find out who'd hand is going to up this puppet president's asshole. Condi? Rick? Newt?
They're just mad they can't focus their foaming smear campaign yet.
I would like to pose a question I thought of while watching the new McCain ad showing him being questioned while a prisoner of war.
If you know the plot of Manchurian Candidate, doesn’t that make the guy held captive for 5 years the guy you DON’T want in the White House???
Actually it may have been a pretty smart move by the RNC.
A pre-emptive smear accusation so that when they begin/continue to smear the Democratic candidates, they can point to this moment and claim they are now just trying to play catch up in the dirty politics game.
It's all wholly untrue of course and they know it. They also know that there are a lot of really stupid Americans who will buy it.
Wow. I wonder what would have happened if Dean had called him a shithead?
This is exactly why we need to settle on a Dem candidate. We need to show McCain for what he is: a shameless panderer and one, seemingly, not in full command of his faculties. They need also to point out being a prisoner of war doesn't quite make the leap to having more military "experience." And they need to go after him for his cozy ties with lobbyists. They need to emphasize that McCain is exactly the same as Bush and will follow the same failing policies.
RNC Deputy Chairman Frank Donatelli called the comment a "character smear," and said they are the "latest in what has become a troubling pattern where the chairman of the national party has questioned Senator McCain’s character and integrity."
What character and integrity does McCain have? How can it be a smear to tell the truth? There is plenty to bring out about him. Dean's comments are innocuous compared to what the Repugs do and will do. Don't back down. It just means a nerve has been hit. Keep going after more. If the Democratic efforts become anything less McCain will walk in to the White House with the help of the main stream media!
Typical RNC reaction...Dems say something they don't like, they immediately demand an apology (which they usually get). Hopefully Dean shows some backbone and tells them where they can shove the apology.
Obly @ 7:
I couldn't agree more. They are casting McCain in a role of some idol because that's their strongest card and possibly their only card.
I am hoping the American people will see through their bs and realize the last thing we need now as a president is an elderly man who doesn't know his facts. Yesterday at kos I read a post about McCain being asked his opinion regarding condoms and birth control. McCain couldn't remember what stand he had taken in the past and asked one of his aides to go and look it up. This is not the man to lead our country any time and especially now.
What we need is a prisoner of the War on Drugs to run for President and do a commercial about being imprisoned for smoking pot and how that qualifies him to be President of the United States because he did not rat out his dealer.
So?
xoites Hussein (non typical white person) defends Constitution @ 20:
Or the War on Christmas...
If they dont like that ad, they are going to have a lot of unhappy days in the future. Personally I would run one listing his staff one by one with their REAL occupations- lobbyists. Then list his big votes and how they tie to the lobbyists, did I say lobbysists enough Mr DC Insider?
That is completely stupid - an hysterical overreaction.
Re-Piglics being stupid is nothing new though - and I guess this sets the tone for the coming year for a dying party that can't argue the issues on their merits.
Apologize! Apologize! Apologize for telling the truth!!!
This election year will be one shrill denunciation of the truth after another as Re-PIGlics run from their record and the facts on how they have taken the country, the economy, the middle class - and even the world - to the brink of disaster, because they can't control their astounding and unparalleled greed.
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xoites Hussein (non typical white person) defends Constitution @ 15:
Wouldn't it be nice to find out?
*
This from the swift boat crowd? HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trittydi @ 24:
Then Dean should've shoved his head in the toilet and flush
Repeatedly.
TheToonGuy @ 21:
Or the War on Halloween...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7O04jRtMyc
slippy hussein toad @ 9:
more like a whining strategy.
Howard Dean in 2004, endorsing formal rival John Kerry:
“The real issue is this. Who would you rather have in charge of the defense of the United States of America, a group of people who never served a day overseas in their life, or a guy who served his country honorably and has three Purple Hearts and a Silver Star on the battlefields of Vietnam?”
McCain, by the way, has been awarded the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, two Bronze Star Medals, a Purple Heart and the Distinguished Flying Cross.
Poor RNC,they can dish it out, but they can't take it. Maybe the msm can run endless clips of Dean, and have talking heads claim the dems are just so mean to such a old man.
Obly @ 7:
I agree completely, very good point...
it also concerns me somewhat that both Obama and Clinton have been blowing sunshines up mccains corrupt and traitorous ass...buying into or at least propping up this Jesus Christ McCain crap...
i am wholeheartedly with Obama, and believe that he is an authentic change to a new kind of politics (witness the striking contrast between his and Clinton's conduct)....but there should also be another side to that new politics-- no kissing ass to "my friend on the other side of the aisle" just because that's some longstanding custom....that's the kerry crap....
or at the very least, stop calling him a hero....
McCain is citing osama bin laden as a national security adviser......he helped cause the last great financial crisis S&L collapses.....
hero smero....
oh yeah, and Mccain never misses an opportunity to remind people that he wears a bracelet with the name of somebody who's died in Iraq....
RNC/HRC= Both prefer Rovian gutter politics where the Tonya Harding/Kitchen Sink/Scorched Earth/attacking a strength and making it a weakness policies of utterly destroying the oppositional candidate (putting party/self before country) is the preferred option. And both RNC/HRC then play the victim after using smearing gutter politics and trying to come across as angels.
Please, someone tell me, HOW exactly is HRC NOT a republican?!?
dennis @ 29:
ysbaddaden @ 33:
Purple Hearts, and other commendations didn't stop the reichwing from Swiftboating John Kerry in favor of the the deserter.
McCrazy got the Distinguished Flying Cross for crashing 5 planes? Wow, way to go Navy.
Even "fearless leader" is being BOOED in public now: they're bound to be a bit touchy.
ysbaddaden @ 33:
John McCain denounced the Swiftboaters, ysby.
No, it wasn't an especially hard-hitting criticism, but only a good start. ;)
Harder, Dean. Go for the jugular.
dennis @ 37:
John Kerry won He won the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.
Doesn't matter he denounced the Swiftboaters, when he's embracing the deserter who's campaigns smeared them both.
none of that matters. there's no nuance here. this is the volume level at which the republitroids are beginning the general. it shows unequivocally how scared shitless they are. i mean, serious grown ups talking about actual regulatory mechanisms for financial services and products in op ed pages across the nation. that's some deeply scary shit. the scariest, in fact.
prepare for it: a sustained blast of "honor the fallen" because they got jack shit.
...the Republican National Committee’s overheated response ...
it's just what-they-do...
wishin' n' hopin' n' prayin' that howard stands firm on his comment...
at the least... at best, more and harder!
dennis @ 37:
why didn't he denounce the president, who deserted, and the VP, who got bogus deferments...
too busy taking blows and bribes from lobbyists?....i ask, with respect to my hero politician from AZ..
oh no, it's party before country when it comes to men like McCain...
dennis @ 29:
You might add that his father was an Admiral. That may have influenced the awarding of medals. I read his bio in wikipedia and I didn't see anything that said why the medals were awarded.
I think the reason the Viet Cong tortured McCain was because they were trying to discourage his eagerness to adopt their views as his own.
ysbaddaden @ 39:
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Sure it matters, wizbie. Are you going to want Howard Dean to be the lone Dem Swiftboater against McCain? To do what, call him a traitor for surrendering, when Bill and Hillary have been out on the trail lauding him for his service? Will you get Dan Rather to make up another fake but accurate memo detailing John McCain's what, opportunism?
You were in the service I believe. Will it be a simple thing to go out and find 264 men who served alongside John McCain who will testify that he wasn't the hero his campaign is making him out to be? If you can, I'd say go for it.
Will Barack Obama attack McCain for being an opportunist, touting his military career, when Obama admits he was doing a lot of drugs in his early 20's, the age McCain was when he was in a POW camp?
Gonna be really tricky no matter who tries to do that bidding. All the whining and bitterness by the Dems over the Swiftboaters will make it very hard to try to attempt anything even remotely comparable without appearing hypocritical.
pissed off patricia @ 19:
I think this is possible, but only if the Dems don't avoid the personality-based politics this time around, but confront it.
I'm not sure that attacking McCain's character (however warranted) is the way to go, b/c people really are likely to be offended that anyone would smear a former POW, and this would be red meat for both the GOP and the McCain-lovin' media.
I think though that if the Dem nominee repeatedly called attention relentlessly to the slimy nature of these kinds of attacks, and kept challenging ol' McStraightTalker to be the one to denounce this kind of politics and talk issues instead, then the Dems would come out looking like the forthright ones, and the GOP might actually start looking like the hustlers they are to the American public.
Really... well I quess Donna Braisle will apologize shortly, and disown any Democrat who has the temerity to put down a Republican, by merely telling the truth.
Or, we could have ("0 for 8") Bob Shrum apologize for any Democrat who dares breathing or having an opinion about something.
How did I get involved with a party full of pussies?
Did anyone read the story of how John Kerry was tanking, due to the "Swift boating" of him... and the Democratic "Strategists" were not only ignoring it... they were fighting over whom amongst them should get the millions of dollars left in the campaign coffers?
Go figure.
Millions of people died for these fools greed.
Good luck with this election. I'm not very hopeful.
Sounds like the RNC is trying really hard to distance McVain from the "out of touch Bush Republican" policies. Stupid fuckwits shouldn't have sucked Chimpy's dick for his endorsement then. No one (here) ever accused the RNC of having brains...
I'd heard nothing of the incident until the GOPhers started harrumphing it.
Seems to me that this would be a wonderful opportunity for Clinton and Obama to keep their mouths shut.
I don't see how that is considered a character smear. If anything, McCain has smeared himself because everything that Dean stated is exactly what McCain stated at some point. McCain stated in no uncertain terms that he would keep U.S. troops in Iraq for 100 years if necessary. He was also quoted in the Wall Street Journal that he was lacking in knowledge about the economy. His "leadership", as he has shown repeatedly, is which ever way the wind happens to be blowing regarding any specific issue. I think the RNC is angry because that is exactly the same McCain that everyone has seen and they know it.
dennis @ 45:
nobody can deny mccain's service, and as you point out, nobody is....but it's fair to call him an opportunist.....he makes a concerted and shameless effort to exploit people's pity for his torture....and he's been doing it for 30 years or so....
so mccain in his 20s was doing something heroic, while in his 40s and 50s he was corrupt in DC, and ensarled in the keating 5 scandal that should have resulted in his ejection....
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/28/amid_mccains_new_s...
I'm not sure what's worse, wreckless irresponsible behavior in one's youth, or wreckless irresponsible behavior in one's middle years.......or is McCain as entitled to be corrupt as he's entitled to the presidency because he was tortured (and broke, betraying his country) as a young man...
I know the republican policies mccain has supported fervently for the last 8 years have left UBL laughing in a cave somewhere....
Obama will have UBL dead in a year or two, slung from a tree in front of the whitehouse, gutted like a deer....
Mccain has had a joy of a time chasing around the man responsible for 911, and acting tough, and reminding everyone that he was tortured, but his party, with all the power of the country, the congress, the courts, the military, the economy-- failed to kill the one man that should have been dead a long long time ago....that's with the entire country behind him for 8 years...
time for the democrats to go kick some ass....and kill the bad guys....
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/28/amid_mccains_new_s...
Howard Dean's assessment of McCain was restrained and, more importantly, 100% accurate. So it is to be expected that the drama queens at the RNC wet their panties over it. Their candidate has nothing positive to offer so they are forced to rely on whining and smearing. Typical.
"a wonderful opportunity for Clinton and Obama to keep their mouths shut
but that's exactly why they do this shit. if i scream really really loud at you and beat my chest really really hard you'll be afraid of me and become submissive, right in front of the whole tribe. doesn't matter who's wrong or who's right. what matters is that everybody saw you back down and be quiet when i hollered at you real loud.
this is schoolyard bullshit and they've gotten away with it for ever.
ysbaddaden @ 39:
I would only make one small change to your comment ysb. That should read "deserters". After all, most of the Republican party that helped Bush smear McCain during his campaigns were all deserters.
Pinkyleftbrain @ 11:
Dick???
McCain won a medal for "distinguished flying"? Huh. I wonder what commendation they give to the pilots who actually manage to keep their planes in the air.
dennis @ 45:
Trying to pull a Rove and attack McCain on his military record is a losing issue, yes (although I hear the illegitimate black baby angle works well).
But it doesn't matter because his military record is almost entirely irrelevant to whether he's qualified, come Jan 2009, to be president. It will only be relevant if the Dems let the GOP make it relevant (which they certainly will try to do). His medals won't put food on peoples' plates, keep their jobs from going overseas, get them affordable healthcare, or keep their houses out of foreclosure.
The winning issue is to keep the focus on who John McCain the politician has been, who he's surrounded himself with, and what values and former stands he's thrown in the trash during his obsessive quest for Oval Office glory. It's this BS "maverick" framing that needs to be exposed for the false propaganda it is, and that goose is ripe for cooking.
dennis @ 29:
I follow the Swift-boat philosophy - if you're running for President and you're a war hero - you didn't really earn your medals.
Besides - "it's the economy stupid" - and McCain admits he doesn't know anything about economics.
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you know what would be funny and awesome would be if Dean played reruns of the negative attack ads that Karl Rove assembled against McCain in 2000. make it clear, this is what Republicans told you then, so it must've been true then, and its true now.
Rusty Shackleford @ 52:
McCain Touts Military Heritage
By DAVID ESPO
Monday, March 31, 2008
The senator's own father commanded a submarine in the Pacific during World War II. Later, during Vietnam he led all U.S. forces in the Pacific at a time when his son was a prisoner of war.
Both father and grandfather were four-star admirals, the only such pair in Navy history.
"They were my first heroes, and their respect for me has been one of the most lasting ambitions of my life," McCain said.
"They gave their lives to their country, and taught me lessons about honor, courage, duty, perseverance and leadership that I didn't fully grasp until later in life, but remembered when I needed them most.
"I have been an imperfect servant of my country for many years. But I am their son, and they showed me how to love my country, and that has made all the difference for me."
I don't know, sounds pretty positive to me, Big Russ. I think the McCain people are saying to the Howard Dean's and the wanna-be Swiftboaters to 'Bring. It. On'.
Clips of McCain's military background alongside clips of Jermiah Wright and 'God-daaaamn America'??? Not good.
You know, if I was McCain I really wouldn't put much stock in having a bunch of draft dodgers and deserters from the Republican Party backing my military service. Their voices of approval really cheapen it. I mean, lets face it, to many in the Republican Party any veteran, no matter what their occupation or however long they served would suit their purposes because they themselves have never served.
Rusty Shackleford @ 56:
Medals sponsored by Lockheed, etc. for crashing as many planes as possible. Keep that war profit rollin'...
dennis @ 60:
McCain bragging on himself and his family is "positive"? I was raised to believe that kind of crass egotism was rude. But I suppose you people will see what you want to see, just as you did with Bush.
dennis @ 60:
sounds like a swaggering blowhard to me....and a shameless opportunist. Most people feel the same about their fathers and the sacrifices they have made, on behalf of their family and their country....why don't we all just whip out our privates and sees who's got the biggest, if this is the kind of contest you think is relevant..
How much respect does McCain earn when he accepts bribes from lobbyists? Or is that respectful behavior if you're a self-proclaimed war hero.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/28/amid_mccains_new_s...
And what sort of respect do you get for failing to bring UBL to justice after 8 years.
ohio progressive (typical non-typical white person) @ 64:
But seriously, you have to respect a hero who has the character to dump the woman who raised his kids (after cheating on her, of course) to marry a rich bimbo whose money is necessary to fund his political ambitions. I mean, that's some heroic, honorable character right there. I wonder which of his ancestors taught him that?
45 dennis
Are you going to want Howard Dean to be the lone Dem Swiftboater against McCain?
_____________________________________________________________________
The DNC statement quoted Howard Dean calling McCain “another out of touch Bush Republican who promises four more years of the same failed leadership.” In light of the interrogation footage from Vietnam included in the ad, Dean added, “While we honor McCain’s military service, the fact is Americans want a real leader who offers real solutions..." (Header)
So much for your charges of "Swiftboating".
I believe that Republicans have always beaten the Democrats at strategy, George Bush winning in 2000 and 2004 is living proof of that. Only this time with McCain I think they are going to have a hard time. For starters there is a whole generation of voters that do not really know what happened to this country during the Vietnam era. Oh they have heard about it, but it isn't relevant to them. Old war "heroes" are just that, OLD.
Howard Dean accepts it as a given fact that McCain should be honored for his military service. Pray tell for doing what, bombing innocent VIetnamese civilians?
Erroll @ 68:
Don't forget he also destroyed an airplane.
Like John McCain, George Pickett and George Armstrong Custer graduated at the bottom of their academy classes. While McCain is not remembered for ordering chargers that wiped out his command, he did manage to loose five aircraft during his naval career, four to accidents and 1 to enemy action. It might also be noted that getting yourself shot down and captured does not make your a war hero. It makes you a prisoner of war. I mention these things only in deference to memories of swift boaters and purple band aids. If McCain wishes to run on his military record, then a good hard look at that record is in order.
dennis @ 60:
Well there you go. Typical GOP tactic: "I come from a long line of White men with big dicks who killed people for a living, so I'm clearly qualified to be President."
It's irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant. McCain's military service, as his father's and grandfather's, in and of themselves merit them respect and honor, but hardly a vote. In the words of Janet Jackson, I believe, "What have you done for me lately?" And what can you do for me tomorrow? Oh, besides sending our men and women in uniform to rot in Iraq until they're as old as you are...if they're lucky to live that long.
The sad thing is that Democrats have traditionally fallen for this crap, walked up to the microphone and said exactly what the RNC wants them to say.
Democratic zombies saying "... I denounce this horrible attack... yes... denounce"
burnt @ 59:
What an excellent idea! I'd have thought of it first if I wasn't so burnt... (Ha! Get it? Burnt??) I crack myself up. ;-)
Rusty Shackleford @ 69:
And, not to mention the fact that McCain was well known during his time in Vietnam for questioning the orders given to him by his superiors. Prior to that McCain was also known for "having run ins" with his superior officers at the Naval Academy. The Republicans call that being a "Maverick". In the Navy today, they would call that a possible Captain's Mast or if he got even worse, grounds for a court martial.
63 Rusty Shackleford
I don't know if I'd call that crass egotism. It's a part of his history and background voters will be looking at.
I to was raised to serve. It was drilled into my from my father being a WWII veteran, my being raised Cub Scout, Webelos, Boy Scout right up into the Air Force. We all knew the story of Sir Robert Baden Powell and WD Boyce by heart. In a strange sort of way, we were immersed into Sir Kenelm Digby's The Broad Stone of Honor where virtues were attached to each part of our imaginary armor, sallet, hauberk, cuirass, greaves, poleyns, sabatons etc.
But first one must find a liege worthy enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJVclw-rh5U
That's what makes the betrayal all the worse than a serpent's sting.
sulphurdunn @ 70:
Indeed. The term "hero" is used far too loosely. It used to be reserved for people like Audie Murphy or Sgt. York - people who, through exceptional bravery, helped advance the war effort. Or even to John Kerry, who rescued his comrade-in-arms at great personal risk.
Nowadays the term can be applied to anyone - apparently.
ysbaddaden @ 66:
I didn't charge Dean with swiftboating. I was asking, since it seems many commenters here have brought it up, that of how to attack McCain's military service, who will be the one or ones to do it. That whoever it was that would attempt it, it'd be very tricky.
Actually though, ysby, according to most liberals, only Democrats can be 'swiftboated'. My question should've been phrased as
'Will Howard Dean be able to produce irrefutable evidence that this time, it's the Republican that is lying'?
ysbaddaden @ 74:
True, true. And he'll keep it front and center because it's all he has.
I guess the truth hurts.
Merely telling the truth about Republicans is an attack and it's time that every Democrat in this country disassociates themself from every other Democrat in this country over this outrage1!!!!!!!!
"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." - Harry Truman
boosh's betrayal.
ysbaddaden @ 74:
I guess we are the same ysb. I was even born in a U.S. Army hospital and later on, I was even given rides sometimes to the school on base in a tank because my dad was a tank commander at the time. I never could get used to the exaust. I loved when I got to move the turret though. lol Going back generations, all of my relatives, father, grandfather, etc. we all soldiers or sailors. It was only natural that I served as well and so I did. With that in mind, I would say that a person coming from a long line of military and having served him/herself does not automatically qualify one to be President of the United States. After all, there is much to being a President than being Commander in Chief.
Dear RNC,
On behalf of the Democratic party I would like to apologize to the RNC for every time the Democratic party has offered an apology to you sick, hateful, self righteous, racist mother fuckers. We'll be be ready for your bullshit attacks in the fall. See you soon.
Uh, might have been the "blatant opportunist" part....Ya think?
80 Joe O.
I've only ridden in a tank once, and all I remember was how hellishly hot and dark it was.
I'm not saying military service should be the sole requirement for the office since Article II only specifies being at least 35 years old, and only native born, or natural citizen can run.
Erroll @ 68:
Oh yeah. That's honoring him.
Punk. (You, not Dean.)
45 dennis
Funny how reports against boosh have to rise to a level of accuracy not needed by the Swiftboaters.
Left&Left @ 81:
Apologies accepted, Left and Left. A little offended and bewildered at the use of your unwarranted epithets, but we'll be ready too, and look forward to the challenge.
May the best man or woman win.
This is the same RNC who, in 2004, allowed some of its supporters at their convention to pass out little purple heart band-aids mocking the service of John Kerry right?
If Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama denounces this kind of attack, then they probably will end up losing the general election.
The McInsane flip flop list from this article is great. That's good ammunition to have when the douchebag swiftboaters start sending their lies about the Dem candidate around in email.
My question is, is there a list compiled out there of transgressions that highlight McCain's lack of integrity/ethics. Besides the flip flops, I can only think of three off the top of my head:
1. Fooled around with someone he met at a party when he was married to another woman. Divorced his wife to marry the "foolee" (fellow fooler?)
2. Keating 5.
3. Cavorted between the sheets with a blonde lobbyist.
Who's got more? Of course, they have to be true and confirmed. Shouldn't need to stoop to the Swiftboat level with all the good material that's out there about St. McCain.
I HAVE A REQUEST FOR ALL WHO READ THIS..... ONE THAT IS EASY, AND SHOULD PROVE A HELP TO ALL OF US...
I will only be happier when everyone refers to McCain by his new title... the one he is RUNNING FROM... because he knows how reality hurts...
Going forward, I will only refer to John "The Republican" McCain, as such.
His team has gone to GREAT EXPENSE to keep this label off of him--- but I believe he should wear it proudly... "like a lapel pin"
The problem with old soldiers is that they are always fighting the last war.
The nation is crying about the economy. He's running on Iraq.
Go figure.
I guess the only question now is how fast Dean apologizes or re-phrases his comments.
Don't be a pussy, Howie. Same goes for you, Barack. Hills, I have no idea what to expect of you anymore.
TypicallyWhiteJohnny2Bad @ 84:
ahhh, it looks like j2b's mind is doing somersaults, trying to find some rube golbergian way to come to support McCain when Obama gets the nom...
if that's where you're coming from, j2b, you're full of baloney...
from edwards to mccain? all because you hate obama?
jack foster @ 4:
Just about the only reason I can forgive Hillary for some of her more egregious attacks of the last month or so (yes, I voted for her on Super Tuesday):
that the presidency is being decided now and she is fighting with everything she has for the whole bag of marbles. McLame, aside from voter fraud, voter caging, and electronic vote flipping, should get his Ensure handed to him in the general by either of the Dem front runners.
Bonkers Hussein @ 91:
dean has never been one to back down....
obama has been kissing mccains feet for some time now (so too clinton)....hope he stops soon
ohio progressive (typical non-typical white person) @ 92:
ahhh, it looks like j2b's mind is doing somersaults, trying to find some rube golbergian way to come to support McCain when Obama gets the nom...
blockquote>
Etymylogy of the term:
http://lambiek.net/artists/g/goldberg_r.htm
Take at look at this fine and dandy housewives's helper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYyD55elKJA
Mister Anderson @ 90:
The paradox of politics are the the older ones have the experience
The younger ones the ideals and enthusiasms not dulled yet by disappointments
Whereas the older ones experience is of the past not the present, rarely the future.
Yes, this was an overreaction on the part of the Republicans. But heck-- after the General Betrayus, MoveOn.org censure resolution, who can blame the Republicans for trying this again? I half expect Congress to pass a "bipartisan" resolution censuring Dean for his "attack on McCain". It wouldn't be much of a surprise to see Sen. Clinton sign onto the resolution.
dennis @ 76:
I didn't charge Dean with swiftboating. blockquote>
45 dennis Says:
Sure it matters, wizbie. Are you going to want Howard Dean to be the lone Dem Swiftboater against McCain?
______________________________________________________________
Cough...flip-flop...cough
The RNC use the typical bully tactics that when a Democrat apologizes to them(even when they are right example: When Sen. Dick Durbin apologized for critizing our troops inhumane actions in Abu Ghraib, only to then apologize.). These ass backward apologies only have served to embolden the RNC's bullshit "with us or against us" propaganda. I say this year fuck them and bring the BS on!
TypicallyWhiteJohnny2Bad @ 84:
That comment is totally bereft of any semblance of intelligence.
The most blatant of 'Blatant opportunist'??... Truth hurts I guess... Boo hoo, So cry me a river Donatelli....JD
What is the RNC's definition of smear? Howard Dean didn't make a personal attack, it was a political issues attack! What really got me was when the RNC demanded an apology from Dean and a denoucement from both democratic candidates. I'm so sick of this apology nonsense. What unmitigated nerve. If their candidate is so thin-skinned reagrding political criticism, why is he running? How will he deal with with foreign nations if he is always needing an apology. These morons!!
They better not pull this apology crap during the debates!
RNC's running scared.
I love this stuff. Now even the Repug leadership says that a comparison to their main-man Bush is a tantamount to a "disgraceful attack" on McCain's character. You can't make this stuff up...these people are clowns.
ysbaddaden @ 95:
thnx v much for the links, ysb.....clinton dems who go mccain are gonna need some crazy mental whoodeeedoop to square that circle.....
But one must remember, even if he co-sponsered the legislation, he probably wasn't there to vote on it.
Every republican I have ever met is a blatant opportunist that will do or say anything to achieve their final goal.
Of coarse the final goal either involves piles of money or molesting young children or both while covering up their shall we say gay leanings. like larry craig and lets not forget that pillar of the republican party mark foley. makes me proud to see what fine upstanding people belong to the republican party! lol hahahahahahahahaha!!!
105 ohio progressive (typical non-typical white person) Says:
Actually the polls say Hillary's supporters will support Obama if he becomes the candidate; however, the same can't be said of his supporters.
ysbaddaden @ 83:
Agreed.
The RNC should apologize to the country for destroying our military and our economy and not even capturing Bin Laden in the process.
76 dennis
Of course growing up, I thought this song was telling me to stay in school and study hard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVER6hyoyJo
Against the pale to call a Viet Vet a blatant opportunist?
Well then, just what do you call Vietnam Pilot Ace Randy "Duke" Cunningham"?
Oh, the difference is that Randy was indicted, and McSame is just "linked" to the S&L scandal, Abramoff, and how many other shenanigans?
Bush Bites @ 110:
They haven't even captured rash limpballs yet
And he's easier to pick out than a charging elephant in a gun practice range.
The truly sad thing is that Dean might be forced to apologize-given the Dem's spinelessness over the last 7 years.
I can see why the RNC would lunge for Howard's throat however.He's so bright and effective that they want to shut him down.
dennis @ 29:
Yeah, and my great uncle was disabled by mustard gas in WW1. That doesn't qualify him to be President.
dennis @ 77:
Anwer: Easy, look to see if mouth is moving.
Yes my grandfather was mustard gasses in WW1 he lost a son in europe in WWII.
No way would he have been up to being president and neither is mccain!
woodguy @ 116:
Sorry about your great uncle, woodguy. That wasn't the point of the post though. It was to contrast a quote made by Howard Dean in the 2004 election to today's scenario. Is that not apparent to you, or did you agree in 2004 that Kerry's military service and medals didn't qualify him to be President then either?
To paraphrase South Park, how does one go about character assassinating someone who has no character?
119 dennis
Dean's recent statement had nothing to do with McCain's military history, but his history of flip-flopping when expedient.
ysbaddaden @ 121:
Goodness, ysby, you are the most exasperatingly thick-headed person on the internets today. One post you're saying something very clever and sophisticated, the next it's like talking to a kindergartner.
I didn't mention Dean's recent statement in that post- I said compared to today's scenario. If you take his quote in 2004, then in today's scenario he'd be unquestionably endorsing John McCain, since he's the only one with military service.
Even if you consider McCain's flip-flopping now, according to Dean in 2004, Kerry's military history trumped his flip-flopping then.
So you'd have to assume Dean must feel the same way now, right, that McCain's flip-flopping should be excused by his military record.
122 dennis
Your implications are so weak due to being all over the map, you might consider taking a few composition courses.
Hopefully the Dems will not back away from this and instead do what the Repugs least expect of them - stand and fight. They need to keep repeating what Dean said and they need start taking apart the "straight talk express" now so that by the time November comes around that well has dried up for the Repugs. I would love to see "straight faced express" videos that feature McCain flip flopping and retreating from one position after another with a straight face. Start defining or in this case unmasking who McCain is now.
46 dennis Says: ysbaddaden @ 39:
Doesn’t matter he denounced the Swiftboaters, when he’s embracing the deserter who’s campaigns smeared them both.
————————————————————————————————
Sure it matters, wizbie. Are you going to want Howard Dean to be the lone Dem Swiftboater against McCain?
________________________________________________
How otherwise can we take your own statement?
How can Dean be the "lone Dem Swiftboater" unless you're accusing him of being a Swiftboater in the first place?
Otherwise the statement has no meaning.
As for military history, what about boosh's desertions or at best AWOLs?
Do you want me to quote Article II again?
The RNC is c..c...complain....LOLOL...complaining...LOLOL..about a...a...a CHARACTER SMEAR!?!? LOLOLOLOL! Nooo noo..make them stop! LOLOL!...Is their strategy to make the Democratic party laugh itself to death?!? LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Under English common law, jus soli allows persons born within the territory of the homeland to be citizens from birth, just like those born within the United States. In 1350, however, the British Parliament also authorized jus sanguinis, where a person could obtain citizenship through birth from their parents.
I hit send to quick, natural citizen was derived from Sir William Blackstone's natural subject.
The relevancy is that while others were on this site, apparently without any legal training, arguing that McCain was unqualified to run for our highest office due to his being born in another country, I was one of the few supporting his run, although I will not vote for him.
dennis @ 30:
Dean's inference is that the choice other than Kerry was chicken-hawk draft dodgers, and those who go AWOL, not that military experience is required, as per Article II listed above.
I don't think Lincoln ever served, but he won in 1864 opposite the Democratic candidate General George B. McClellan.
However, I should say for disclosure sake that the Federal Democratic party were seen as the peace party, although McClelland repudiated that stance, and ran as someone who could run the war better than Lincoln, although Lincoln fired him for incompetence.
My God, does Howard Dean have a church we don't know about
ysbaddaden @ 125:
How otherwise can you take that statement? You can take it exactly as it's written, a future tense question. Several posters were clamoring for some type of advertisement or charge similar to the allegations made by the Swiftboaters against Kerry. My question was, 'who do you want to be the Swiftboater this time?' A Soros 527 group, 264 men who served with McCain, or a Howard Dean. He can become a "Lone Dem Swiftboater" if he chooses to become one- that is not calling him one. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? If it's ADD or something hindering you, I apologize for saying you are thickheaded, and wish you all the best to overcome it.
As to your post @ 129, Dean made no inference at all about chicken-hawk draft-dodgers, and those who go AWOL. None whatsover. How do you get that inference? I could say he was inferring that Kerry got those medals under suspect circumstances, couldn't I, even though there is no statement anywhere close to that from Dean.
dennis @ 131:
I'm not so certain it was the blatant opportunist jibe that so freaked out the rnc. i believe it was the dismissal of McCain's military service as irrelevant to the topic. let's face it, without it to lean on like a crutch he's got nothing left. he's an empty sack. the rnc is terrified of that. dems take note.
122 dennis Says: ysbaddaden @ 121:
Even if you consider McCain’s flip-flopping now, according to Dean in 2004, Kerry’s military history trumped his flip-flopping then.
Kerry didn't do anything so egregious as McCain and his lobbyist scandal, turning againt his own torture legislation, trying to embrace the evangelicals (good luck due to their rotundity), even now McCain--the campaign finance reformer--is under pending investigation for misuse of federal funds in his campaign.
Kerry's was primarily parsing over how one can back one bill and than vote against a later version or another similar to it, without going into the minutae of how they differed.
Not a terribly effective tu quoque on your part.
minutiae.
Me go now, watch more The Shadow with Victor Jory.
Funny thing is the guy who played Vincent, primarily his chauffeur, his name was Roger Moore.
Where's the surprise? This is exactly the way the Republicans always behave. They spew once offensive attack after another at their opponents but as soon as something comes back their way, no matter how mild, they are "outraged".
ROTFLMAO! Aww, it hurts their feelings when Howard Dean dishes out a little dollop of truth, reminding everyone of John McCain's undying loyalty to the corrupt and sorry-ass disaster that is the George W Bush "administration".
Jeesh... sounds like the Republic Party is getting a little sensitive to me... I mean, it's not like Dean mentioned Charles Keating or anything.
Like Harry Truman said, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
"failed leadership" = fried ice cubes
Short memo to repubs;
Shut the fuck up! Take yer medicine ya sniveling little shits! Ya don't mind dishing lies and general bullshit out... What?Yer not getting yer tightie whities in a knot because it's the truth are ya!??? Since, when the hell did you people ever start worrying about the truth!!??? Aren't you the people who like to create your own 'realities' and let eveyone else ponder it and try to catch up while you people spin some new truthy reality??? Histories actors??? Wasn't that the meme? Hows that shit working out for ya these days???? Yea, thought so...Guess you asses are all out of mission accomplished bullshit now.....One thing you got right on the memo... You people sure as hell were actors because as leaders??? You people definitely were NOT the real thing....JD
Unfortunately Dean took the bait. Now the Democrats are stuck trying to explain why McCain's ad is so offensive to Obama. It comes off as a bit odd to complain that saying the word American too many times is offensive to your candidate. Now that opens a whole big bag of, 'why would that be offensive to Obama?' I can sense this is going to be a big issue with the Obama campaign and the DNC, they'll be so busy stamping out every subtle, soft bigotry, the the Democratic Party's message will be lost. Eventually, Americans will be sick and tired of the arguing and take it out on Obama. Jumping over every single little non issue will loss the general election. I'm already sick and tired of bigotry issues, and it's not even April quite yet.
Holly @ 141:
Obama said he was offended by McCain? When?
McCain's ad, I mean.
dennis @ 119:
This may surprise you, but that's exactly what I think. Kerry should have run on his Senate record and his plan for getting us out of this illegal and disastrous war. By the way, his military record didn't help him deflect the lies and smears thrown at him by the Republic party, did it?
Running solely on one's military record (or in McShrub's case, his father's and grandfather's as well) is one of the reasons we're in the predicament in which we find ourselves today. I can understand why McShrub is doing this, and I think it's predictable in that it's all he's got. He's certainly not going to run on his solution to the economic quandary we're in, because he has no solution; hell, he doesn't even have a rudimentary knowledge of what the economy is all about. The militarization of our society is something everyone from George Washington to Ike warned us about for years, and now they've been proven correct. Until the leadership of the US acknowledges some values are more important than military might we'll be doomed to repeat the same mistakes we've been making for the last 60 years.
So no, I don't agree that a sound military record is necessary or even desirable in a Presidential candidate.
Holly @ 141:
Well said.
facts facts? we don't need no stinking facts
This is great. Kicked their asses Howard. This is what we needed all the along. The Dems. bowed down the rightiwng bloodsuckers for almost 8 years. Stay on 'em Howard.
Perhaps they don't know what "blatant opportunist" means...
lewisnclark @ 138:
Funny, I heard it as, if you can't stand the heat get out of Texas.
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