Lindsey Graham uses every trick in the book not to support Webb's new GI Bill
By John Amato Saturday Apr 05, 2008 4:00pm
McCain's mouthpiece, Lindsey Graham went on Face the Nation and used every talking point to support the war in Iraq, but can't come up with an explanation why McCain will not support Webb's new GI benefits Bill. It's for the welfare of our troops that have been ordered into this nightmare situation in the middle east, and as strong war advocates, you'd think McCain and Graham would be first on the list of the Senator's who have signed to show how committed they are to our troops. Graham has a lot of words to say about everything else and goes off topic because he doesn't have a good answer. Supporting the troops is nothing but a talking point for McCain and Graham it would appear.
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WEBB: Yes. Well, there are too many people in the Pentagon who are seeing a good GI bill as affecting retention rather than rewarding service, and we need to get those -- politics aside, we need to get to those issues to help our troops.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Graham, Senator Webb has introduced this legislation to provide the same GI bill benefits to Iraq War veterans that veterans of World War II got. Neither you nor Senator McCain have co-sponsored that bill. More than 50 senators have. Why not? (transcript below the fold via ABC News)
GRAHAM: Well, number one, the first term enlistee gets the same benefits as somebody who'd been there for 20 years. I'd like to do two things. One, I'd like to work with Jim to enhance benefits, but the focus on retention and recruiting and to improve benefits. I worked with Senator Clinton to provide military health care to every guard and reserve member, so sign me up for sitting down with Jim. But one thing I want -- a point of agreement. Iraq is not an island. I've never looked at it that way.
The reason we need to win in Iraq, because the outcome in Iraq, winning or losing affects our national security interests. I do not want to leave Iraq as an extension of Iranian theocracy in the south. I don't want to leave Iraq where Anbar province is occupied by Al Qaida, where there is a war between the Turks and the Kurds in the north. There is a tremendous amount of reconciliation, politically and militarily, that has been achieved since the surge. In July of '08, there will be 140,000 troops. In January of '07, there was 140,000 troops. We had a surge in the middle. What's happened in the middle is dramatic political and economic progress that's been brought about by better security.
We want a wining outcome in Iraq so that when we do leave, we're going to leave behind a country that's part of the solution, not the problem. That is why people reenlist. That is why I support this new strategy. The old strategy was failing. The new strategy is producing results, and I hope we'll stay with it.
WEBB: I've got to take 30 seconds to respond to what Lindsey said, because I can't let that hang out there. You know, people don't reenlist because of the war in Iraq. People reenlist because they love their country and they have family traditions and they love to soldier. And they'll fight in Iraq, they'll fight in Afghanistan, or they'll serve anywhere they are called upon to serve.
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Is GI Bill, GI Joe's gay lover?
Lindsey Graham is on his way out with the rest of the Republican party.
Has anybody ever heard Graham answer a question directly?
"Supporting the troops is nothing but a talking point for McCain and Graham it would appear."
Yup.
Geno @ 3:
No...
But we've all seen Sissy Graham hopscotch it.
.
wtf, is Graham saying if I enlist that I shouldn't be afforded the same benefits package that a 20 year enlistee is entitled too? is that what I just read?
dude, it doesn't work like that in corporate America! it doesn't work like that for ANY local, county, state or federal agency! it doesn't work like that for the Senate!
Graham's suggesting he cut off his nose to spite his face. he's seeking to increase retention, but his suggestion is going to kill recruitment.
graham lies through his teeth, and then he sits there (like william the bloody) with that shit eating grin on his face when Webb calls him on his bullshit.
What a neocon, repug sack of shit!!!!!!
Mike Mid City @ 2:
I wish! But unfortunately for America, there are those neocon fascist party members that get re-elected ever time by a landslide. Are the people in those districts/states really that f*cking stupid??
Somebody give this guy a skirt , panty hose and pom poms , how I would love to knock this little weasel right on his ass . Not very PC or liberal but what the hell .
8 Hulk , hard to fathom but yes they are that stupid .
These warmongers know that unemployment will be up so high soon that they won't need to worry about recruitment. The military will be the only choice for so many....
Hulk @ 8:
They just look at the name on the ballot - recognize it and vote. He could be a piece of crap, but if the name is familiar - he's back in.
Senator Graham joined the "bomb bomb bomb Iran" club some time ago. Several weeks ago he was on (I believe Meet the Press) and he sounded like he had been spending a great deal of time with Micheal Ledeen , John Bolton and Bill Kristol at the American Enterprise war school.
How many innocent people have to die to make these warmongers happy?
Come on, give the guy a break. He has to live in South Carolina sometimes.
Sen McCain has been on the Gov't / DOD dole HIS ENTIRE LIFE. He should be so very ashamed of himself. Wait, what am I thinking? He clearly has no regard for anyone but himself.
Geno @ 3:
Somebody should ask him about log cabins and Republican blackmailing Whips.
Tom @ 14:
AND...he does know that Iraq is not, in fact, an island. Way to go, geography boy.
Graham doesn't want any 'GI Bill' in the Senate because he's afraid somebody will attach an extension of the 'Don't Ask/Don't Tell' provision to apply to the Senate itself. Then the 'holier than tho' bunch in South Carolina will have to come to grips with their Junior, or is it Senior, Senator...which will have to henceforth be known as the 'Topper' or the 'Bottomer', Senator from South Carolina, that is.
Lindsay Graham, Jeff Gannon, and some barnyard animals. Get to work Photo-Shoppers, Lindsay can be in VitterCraigland by nightfall.
He complaining about situations that his party created ! what a F^%$ing moron.
CONTACT SENATOR LINDSAY GRAHAM. LET HIM KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT HIS LACK OF SUPPORT SENATOR WEBB'S G.I. BILL AN OUR TROOPS.
http://lgraham.senate.gov/public/
ferrofluid @ 16:
Now, now - the issue here is Lindsey's political hypocrisy, not his sexual hypocrisy. He'll come out when he's ready.
He did not answer the question at all.
Lindsey Graham is one of the worst closeted gays in the republican party. How no one calls him out on this amazes me. He's barely in the closet as it is, and if he has any integrity, he'll be honest about who he really is as a person.
Until republicans can honestly deal with themeselves, they'll continue to lie and spew propaganda at everyone else. It's the political variation of self-hatred transferred to others.
Republicans don't support the troops, else the GI bill would have been passed already. Why did it take a democratic congress to get this started? If republicans really supported the troops they would have passed this at the start of the Iraq occupation.
If you listen really closely... the argument seems to be that some don't want a good GI Bill because that doesn't keep the soldiers IN the military. It is about RETENTION, not recruitement, and it certainly isn't about doing the right thing for those who serve. In other words, if there is a real benefit to leaving after one's first enlistment, they'll leave. Graham and those at the Pentagon essentially just admitted that they don't want benefits for serving, only for STAYING. So, they'll offer bonuses for re-upping, but they really DON'T want any program that would encourage leaving. We only care for them to the extent that they continue to be cannon fodder. Well, IED fodder, but you get the picture.
Right, let's have a great GI bill so we can better sell kids on the military.
I say, NO G.I. bill, no incentives, no parades, no respect, nada. Maybe then people will stop signing up to go and murder innocent people.
Just figured out why larry (bathroom-boy) craig hasn't left the Senate. His best girl, and best Capitol bathroom buddy, lindsey still works there.
What a bush and mccain sycophant. Wonder if he can be done by both of them at the same time?
Jim Webb is talking about soldiering and supporting vets the way we should treat them.
Lindsay Graham is talking like CEO trying to make a buck off his non-union employees healthcare and pittance of a 401k plan.
I offer the same solution to ga-ham as I did for never been bloody bill, a punch right in the nose. If left up to him,his uniform would have more shinny shit on it than a 1950s cadillac, which of course he would not be able to see over the steering wheel! Are weasels and snakes allowed to drive?
Jim @ 27:
Good Point
The Mystery of American Foreign Policy
Why are we propping up the pro-Iranian Maliki faction in Iraq?
"I think I pretty much summed up here the scenario that is now unfolding:
"I have to laugh when I hear criticisms from the Democrats and the growing number of antiwar Republicans in Congress who complain that we don't belong in Iraq any longer because, you know, it's a civil war. This is largely seen as an unintended consequence of the American invasion – but what if it was intended?
"It would, after all, make perfect Bizarro 'sense.' If, instead of trying to build a stable, democratic Iraq, you're trying to wreak as much destruction as possible and turn Arab against Arab, Muslim against Muslim, and the Kurds against everyone else, then the invasion and occupation of Iraq was the right thing to do."
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12596
Hulk @ 8:
YES!
getalife @ 4:
Insofar as people like Sen. Graham can get them to reenlist, sure he supports the troops. The truth is, this bill is seen be some as a retention buster. They see NCOs who are sick of this shit getting out in large numbers to go back to school. It scares the living shit out of them that, given a decent enough opportunity, they might find out how a decent-sized majority feel about Bush's Army.
kathleen @ 13:
How many people are there in the middle east?
ferrofluid @ 20:
And so very very very REPUBLICAN! "You can't vote democratic america, because....well......umm...., look how badly we (GOP) fucked everything up." These people are beyond the pale!
Well what can they say? "Because our financial masters told us not to." ??
I caught a straight lie! In July 2008 there will be MORE than 140,000 troops in Iraq as analysts have stated. Bringing home 1 or 2 brigades at a time when we redeploy 3 or 4 makes for a net gain. Hasn't anyone else noticed this?
I am done with a pussyfoot irresponsible Democrat Congress (and by extension Party) and I am done with a gun-ho irresponsible Republican Presidency (and by extension Party). I am voting 3rd party come November 6th!
Does anyone know why Carl Levin hasn't gotten behind this bill? I expected someone so completely behind military service would be the number one supporter, but apparently something must not be right.
kathleen @ 31:
Are you kidding? This is the same kinda shit that we in the left did the last time around. We will blame the troops for the policy, and let the pigs who started this war walk away. There's nothing wrong with one serving his or her country. Why should they pay the price? Anyone who puts their life on the line for this country, should be treated with honor, and paid for it.
What kind of a name for a man is Lindsey?
In remembrance of certain Republicans
kathleen @ 31:
The GI Bill provides the opportunity to go to school upon leaving the military. Its like a retraining program for workers who are laid off. Graham and Webb know that it doesn't encourage retention, that was never the point. Why would someone who spends twenty years in the military leave with no skills and want to go to college for a new career?
The 20-year veteran vs. 6-year veteran is just Graham and the bullshit Republicans' attempt at driving a "merit" based wedge into an issue because then they can claim that the GI bill is socialist. These people have no shame.
ysbaddaden @ 1:
Don't ask, and I won't tell you. ;)
Bartleby @ 26:
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is the way you cut through the B.S.
I believe that McCain has basically said as much. What we are seeing is the Republicans trying to set up a situation where soldiers are left broke and with very few opportunities outside of the military that would benefit them. This way, they create a permanent "warrior class", if you will -- people whose only job is to die for their bidding as they start more wars around the globe.
realdoozy @ 39:
According to this article, Levin wants to hear the pentagon's proposal on the GI bill first.
Pollyanna likes to play the glad game @ 27:
I read an article on here the other day about how the Pentagon was going to pay people to comment on left-leaning blogs. not long after that, I started noticing really really stupid crap like this. I dunno if it was always there and I just never noticed, or if the military plans on posting extremely offensive super-left crap on left-leaning websites to piss off the moderates.
either way, I just thought I'd point out. this is a ridiculously stupid comment. ya bud, lets get rid of our military, then the world will respect us more. thats some critical thinking there, Pollyanna.
a long time ago, Rodney King asked a rhetorical question "can't we all just get along?" - the answer, unfortunately, is no. we can't. evil has, and always will, exist. people have, and always will conspire to harm other nations and coerce the public to enlist and attack. its a shame that our current administration is playing the "badguy" card like that, but get rid of our military, and other "badguys" will, indeed, conspire and manifest attacks on idiots like you, Jim.
use your damn head. support your troops. they have a shitty job to do, and its important that they come home to support. or would you prefer more angry, depressed addicts with limited resources and drive spanging you on the way in to your sheltered little job. I support both a comprehensive GI Bill, and a Commander In Chief beholden to his constituents not his lobbyists. its asinine to remove both just because one of the two isn't present.
Thanks OBH, I appreciate the info.
Old Billy Hussein @ 43:
It offers a safety net for service personal who might consider longer term signups, why would somebody go do 10 or 20 years if they thought they would be unemployable in the civilian job market upon leaving.
Not all mil have suitable job skills that translate directly in civvy street.
Threres been many reports (UK definitely US maybe) of soldiers being kicked out of the mil with no transitional period, its a common complaint in the UK.
Today, instead of providing for returning vets with a G.I. Bill like we did with our WW2 vets, we now provide them with the opportunity to join one of the many members of the U.S. private paramilitary industry. They got the training they needed while in the military, now they can go make some real money as a "contractor" for Blackwater.
We don't need college grads, or healthy civilians. We need lots of people willing to be a part of Blackwater Worldwide.
Look, Bush has layed this all out for us. He told us he's going to increase troop levels in Afghanistan, and he's going to reduce the length of tours of duty in Iraq. He can't do this unless he also creates the domestic social situation in which returning vets can't find jobs and can't get what they need while civilians, and so are forced to become "contractors" with Blackater.
Has anyone ever seen a bigger group of grinning , braying jackasses that are more effeminate than Graham , Kristol and Shrub ?
I could find Girl Scout troops with more machismo .............
i wish a dem legislator would float the following bill
all congressmen or senators who still support the chimp and the war, must serve for 1 week in iraq at the front lines, without body armour and not embedded with the troops
war stops tomorrow
MCMetal @ 51:
ROTFLMAO.
Immature? Sure. Hilarious? Definitely. True? Totally.
And Ironic.
GI Bill??
Benefits????
Isn't contributing to George W. Bush's future status as America's Greatest President reward enough? Suddenly there are all these "strings" attached.
Honestly, it's getting so you can't even expect a person to die for someone else's ideology anymore.
I can't understand how anybody, whether they voted for the war or not, could not support this bill. It seems like a no brainer to me.
That's how a Republican supports the troops...by not giving them shit! No GI Bill, how will we fight our bullshit criminal wars if you all leave and go to college?!? No medical assistance for wounded soldiers returning from battle...how else would we be able to convince these people that they should go back and continue to fight? If they get help getting over their mental disorder before we give them another tour of duty they might see that what we are doing there is wrong!
geeky xtian @ 55:
It is a no brainer...but so is the Republican party, so what do you expect?
well put by Sen. Webb. of course nobody will enlist unless they think it's a war worth figthing for.
Will obama show up and vote this time. The last time they had a vote on a bill for benefits for our military obama didn't even bother voting. And don't take my word for it...go to the congressional record.
I'm losing it because not one Republican seems to have a definition of what "win in Iraq" means.
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 57:
I know! It's freaking ridiculous. What happened to "support the troops"?
Jim @ 27:
I'm not easily offended, especially by internet jackasses. That being said, this has to be one of the most idiotic and offensive things I've ever heard. I served in the military, so this feels almost like a personal insult. Servicemen/women have a really rough job to do and they get paid very little to do it. They need all the benefits they can get. Just because they are not being used properly, doesn't make them into a bunch of babykillers as you no doubt believe. If your post was a poor attempt at sarcasm, mission not accomplished. If it was intentionally inflammatory, congratulations. It got my blood pressure up real nice.
You seem to be the opposite extreme of the repugs. They say if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. You say if you support the troops, you support the war. Go home.
MCMetal @ 51:
I can't win, but I can match. Neil Cavuto, Patrick McHenry, Fred Kagan, Karl Rove, Tucker Carlson and George Will. Anyone want to add to the list?
Does nobody pay attention to history? Disgruntled veteran and war hero Adolf Hitler used bad treatment of war veterans by the Weimar government to start World War II and kill 11 million in the Holocaust and 20 million Russians, let alone all the Poles, Greeks, French, Italians, Danes, Norwegians, Maltese, Berbers, Arabs, English, Americans, and Yugoslavs that he killed. These grinning idiots are walking right into that trap and are heedless of the burning bag of shit left on our front porch.
I guess after their last appearance on Meet the Press sitting side by side, old punkass Graham thought it would be better to do a remote appearance with Jim Webb, since Webb almost kicked his ass, literally.
Does the congressional health plan cover testosterone injections?
I hope so for Lindsey's sake.
Boy this bill would be great, I'm getting out in a year and a half either way.
Oh yeah sorry for the double post but I'd like to say: "Fuck you Lindsey!" I'm from South Carolina and I don't care if there will be pre-surge numbers in Iraq in July '08 because I'll be just getting in country then and my brother will have been there for almost a year at that point.
But hey I guess Lindsey has more experience about what is best for the military since he's been in longer... doing.. you know, hard Air Force legal stuff. What would that old washed up, highly decorated, vietnam combat veteran, and former Marine infantry officer Jim Webb know about what's best for the troops?
noodleboy hussein @ 62:
Guess what? I don't care that you "served" in the military. You didn't help my world, you made it more UNsafe. I don't give you a drop of respect for willingly being a part of a military machine meant only to spread hate and fake democracy to those who were just fine without us. You should apologize for your "service".
The day we put down weapons and think peace rather than celebrate military service, almost as a rite of passage, that will be a day when we have evolved into a truly progressive state. Until then all you are doing is towing the same line...Dems want to seem as if they are as tough as Reps on defense so they support stupid incentive programs to hoodwink more disadvantaged youth into signing up to go murder innocent people.
burnt @ 47:
I'm flattered, but no paycheck from the pentagon has arrived yet. Perhaps in tomorrow's mail.
Now please, tell me where I'm wrong? Do they NOT go and murder innocent people? Are they robots? Do they not have a will and a brain? They don't have to do what they are doing, they CHOOSE to do it. That's sick and I don't support it. I'm sorry that you do. If you feel that I'm some sort of insurgent plant, fine, but I guarantee you I'm not alone in this thinking, most so-called progressives just won't express it.
Otay @ 63:
Mark Foley, Larry Craig, Ted Haggard....
People that are still too stupid to realize that Lindsey is a sociopath with no care for Americans, deserves to have their houses foreclosed.
I think he answered the question quite clearly.
He doesn't not want the opportunity to never consider a bill which he wouldn't won't sign...
didn't lindsey graham help organize the coronation of reverend moon as messiah?
and folks in south carolina still take this freak seriously?
P.S....Lindsey Grahams not gay! (I just don't want him to be...)
I thought the real eye-popper from Graham was that AFTER the U.S. blew it in Afghanistan by focusing resources on Iraq, and letting Osama get away thus leading to Al-Queda using Afghanistan & Pakistan as their homebase (don't get me started on that!) these Iraq hawks, McCain included, STILL want to divert resources and focus from Al-Queda by gunning for Iran. Every other sentence out of Graham's mouth was Iran this and Iran that. You'd think a Dem could make a damaging ad pointing out how the Repubs keep misdirecting the ball on this.
Hey Lindsey Graham, we all know you republicans embrace profit before peace. Bunch of lying hypocrites those republicans.
Most state governments already give their national guard members free college tuition. It's pretty messed up when weekend warriors get better college benefits than active duty soldiers.
Jim @ 69:
The day we put down weapons and think peace rather than celebrate military service, almost as a rite of passage, that will be a day when we have evolved into a truly progressive state. Until then all you are doing is towing the same line...Dems want to seem as if they are as tough as Reps on defense so they support stupid incentive programs to hoodwink more disadvantaged youth into signing up to go murder innocent people.
Being anti-war is one thing, but being a complete pacifist is historically dangerous for the survival of any group of people. I don't agree with this war but I will be going to Iraq in July anyway. I didn't have the same feelings when I joined but that happens, people change how they feel. Now I have to do what I signed up for unfortunately.
You support the hard-line Republicans on this one apparently Jim. What you don't understand is that they don't support this bill because it would be better for retention to have the same old G.I. Bill that we have now. Quite a conundrum for your viewpoint.
Do the people who elected LGraham think the same way he does? If there's anybody who thinks that republicans care about our troops, do not listen to what they say but pay attention to how they treat them. They could care less. I'm almost to the point where I don't believe any of them.
They're both somewhat wrong on the issue of re-enlisting. "...because they love their country, they love their families..." is too simplistic. The fact is, economic realities more often than not come into play, the need to pay the bills. Then there's the fact that many soldiers have limited job opportunities after they get out due to lack of education. And finally there's the psychological factor. Something draws these soldiers back to dangerous combat situations once their time is up. We saw it in vietnam, we're seeing it now.
diamondmc @ 40:
The initial commenter is the kind of idiot who almost destroyed the liberal/progressive movement due to the backlash from the few haters during the Vietnam war. Troops don't join to kill people they join to defend thier country. Blame the people who tell them where to fight, not the troops.
It is to my endless shame that Lindsey Graham is my Senator. I call his office, and write him all the time, and all I ever get back is platitudinous, discursive crap like you saw on this clip. He's a sorry piece of work.
Bartleby @ 26:
We won't draft, the good Repugs in and out of college won't go (chicken shits), so to keep the military full we will further screw the Soldiers. The thought that we will not support Vets with a good GI Bill because we want them/need them to stay in sickens me. Where is the sharing of the War burden, the patriotism? Every politician that opens their mouth has nothing but good to say about Soldiers, then stabs them in the back. What kind of Patriotism is that? This War and everything to do with it is so wrong in so many ways. Now if the Army was so full of willing Repugs that that you needed the draft to determine who could Get In, then that would be another story.
Have you ever seen FBI photos or WANTED posters of gang-bangers? They strike a pose just like Graham - chin arrogantly up high.
Was he ever a gang-banger? I wonder
Why in the world would anyone expect a troop hater like graham to support ANY bill that would be good for the troops?
This is the way the repukes support the troops = spent rounds!
Graham is a military lawyer and 100% Bush$Co warmonger Giving these veterans the same help of the GI Bill that I have is no cake walk each of us still has years of struggle to fight for our benefits from the VA system which is there to discourage you and make you quit trying.
The military does not care about veterans other than the gungho that will follow orders to the end. If you can think as an individual you are a threat to their control.
Disabled Vietnam Combat Veteran 1965-1969
As someone who was drafted in 1966 and served 2 years I had the same benefits as those who fought before me and also the same benefits as those that were in the service for the long term and I can tell you this much Mr. Graham, you little weasel. As far as I'm concerned, the army TOOK 2 years of my life and as such, I don't the armed forces can not do enough for me and ALL the veterans such as myself. I just hope the voters keep this in mind come November and vote against any person who doesn't support the new g.i. bill. Even if these same folks change their position by November!In other words-FUCK YOU LINDSEY!!!
McCain’s mouthpiece, Lindsey Graham went on Face the Nation and used every talking point to support the war in Iraq, but can’t come up with an explanation why McCain will not support Webb’s new GI benefits Bill.
[Deleted. ALL CAPS-Sitemonitor]
LibertyWatch @ 87:
I know this is late, but I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service in Vietnam.
I thank the young people that are in Iraq.
People like Graham (and there are lots of them) need to be tarred and feathered. Maybe hot molasses and feathers. Anything gooey.
Anyway, friend, thank you.
Why don't you include Senator Webb's response?
You are very welcome and Thanks for taking a moment to say that to me. We are all in this together and somehow have to make it right???
rain @ 90:
"The old strategy wasn't working, the new strategy is working."
How often have we heard that during this war? Mission Accomplished - nope. "We'll stand down when they stand up" - didn't work. "Clear build and hold" - didn't work (although it may have been a good idea- we just didn't have enough troops to carry it out, and the Iraqis weren't capable of helping. These are the same people who wholeheartedly supported all the previous crappy plans. It's time to get out of Iraq. No more McSame.
There is no doubt Lindsey Graham is as3hole and
has lost all sense of reasonableness!
serge @ 83:
Another SC voter here...and I get the same results when I contact his office. An off-topic form letter that spouts his talking-points. He doesn't give a shit, because he knows that most white voters in SC will vote the republican slate without even looking. The Democrats lost this state over civil rights... and they won't get it back in our lifetime, barring a huge shift in demographics. The house districts still give Dems a shot (see Jim Clyburn and John Spratt), but we will not see a majority of these angry white folks voting for a Democratic candidate for the US Senate.
As a middle aged white man who gets dirty looks at stoplights for his anti-bush bumper sticker, I have given up hope for a non-Republican senator from this state. I'm afraid we'll have to put up with Graham for a while... at least as long as he chooses to stay in the closet.
Graham is such a lying kiss-ass. The things he talked about: "Leaving Iraq to Al Qaeda," "Kurds and the Turks fighting in the North" all became possible because of these imperialists wanting to demcratize the middle east.
QUEEN LINDSEY GRAHAM
LOL
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