Bush and Chaney are not leaving..so don't worry what McCain says..the Coup is coming...get ready....

Don @ 1:

Bush and Chaney are not leaving..so don't worry what McCain says..the Coup is coming...get ready....

Please don't call this monster 'Chaney'. It is an insult to all monsters and an insult to Chaney's memory.

Don @ 1:

Bush and Chaney are not leaving..so don't worry what McCain says..the Coup is coming...get ready....

I really don't think Bush has enough interest to stay in power. He is a puppet and would rather be riding his bike.

Now we're going to bill Iraq for the war?

Crackdown on Militias May Add to Instability in Iraq By JAMES GLANZ and STEPHEN FARRELL --> A crackdown on the Mahdi Army militia is creating potentially destabilizing political and military tensions in Iraq, pitting a government against the power wielded by the cleric Moktada al-Sadr.

bryancri @ 6:

though i completely agree that mccain is ridiculously misinformed, it doesn't help your argument to say, "mccain is too stupid....." he might be too lazy, too tired, who knows?

but, "too stupid" sounds mean.

I hear you, but this is AT LEAST the FIFTH documented time he's made the same mistake.

That is either willful ignorance or abject stupidity. Take your pick.

I'm not concerned about sounding mean to someone like McCain. Maybe he needs a dose of his own medicine.

4% of the "insurgency" at best: al CIA-duh

spare me please

Nicole Belle @ 11:

bryancri @ 6:

though i completely agree that mccain is ridiculously misinformed, it doesn't help your argument to say, "mccain is too stupid....." he might be too lazy, too tired, who knows?

but, "too stupid" sounds mean.

I hear you, but this is AT LEAST the FIFTH documented time he's made the same mistake.

That is either willful ignorance or abject stupidity. Take your pick.

I'm not concerned about sounding mean to someone like McCain. Maybe he needs a dose of his own medicine.

It's okay to be mean to people who have human beings slaughtered en-masse for profit.

Weaseldog @ 12:

From our earlier conversation, do you agree that this is likely a lowball number?

Agreed

bryancri @ 6:

though i completely agree that mccain is ridiculously misinformed, it doesn't help your argument to say, "mccain is too stupid....." he might be too lazy, too tired, who knows?

but, "too stupid" sounds mean.

I vote for stupid, with a dash of bigoted arrogance.

My dad was career Army: regimented, self-justifying, non thinking. I followed orders, no questions asked, when I was a little girl. My college boyfriend was a C.O. and he left this country rather than go to Vietnam. My dad's reaction (he took C.O. as a personal assault, he was enraged) was what let me know, finally, that my dad was crazy. Watching this exchange I see that McCain is crazy. He is of course an old platitude man, political and bloviating. But he is crazy.

Do we honestly think the Media will talk about McCain's faux pas? No, their to busy kissing his butt.

Marcus Aurelius @ 24:

McCain doesn't need any National Security creds - if he chooses Rice as his running mate.

Yikes!

Rice ain't gonna be on the ticket. After the election Bush and Laura are going to be splitsville and Rice will be taking up residence in Crawford. I understand Dubya's having a special closet designed just for her shoes and her whips.

Calling McCain 'stupid' is an upgrade. He's a goddamned blithering idiot.

There will be no elections, martial law will be declared before the elections. Why would a group of neocons who stole so much power give it up to Obama? If there is an election, McCain will win it thanks to dieboldt. All of the monsters that are in power now, will stay in power. The elite will rule and the rest of us that survive the economy bottoming out will be their slaves. It is all a part of their plan....

I've read that exchange now five times and the whole line of questions from McCain doesn't make sense to me. Maybe listening to all that republican jive this morning has injured my brain or something.

*holds breath waiting for admission by betrayus and mccain to fess up that iran is the biggest victor of troop 'surge'*

This cannot be possibly real. No one can be so senile, stupid or have as many freudian slips. He is doing it deliberately and is playing practical jokes on us.

Patricia, Republicans have that effect on people.

P.D. @ 34:

Your right LA. Who cares abour Iraq when we can watch American Idol?

Ever aspect of it. News, entertainment, gossip. It's all war war war. Competition. Ego. USA!!!

Even NPR sucks now and candy coats it like war is some sophisticated intellectual topic requiring sensitivity.

31 pissed off patricia Says: I’ve read that exchange now five times and the whole line of questions from McCain doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe listening to all that republican jive this morning has injured my brain or something.

in order for one to make sense talking about a given subject--say, operation iraqi liberation--one has to understand said subject. mccain does not. never did.

national security cred my baboon ass.

The answer . . . he's stupid.

pissed off patricia @ 42:

McCain's engine is his ego. I see no signs of super intelligence. Like a lot of elderly people he talks to get attention. What he says doesn't matter so much as finding someone to listen to him. His ego is driving him through this election. No sane person at 72 (age he would be when he took office) would want to take on such a new and difficult profession. Would you hire McCain to run your company or your household? Neither would I.

Well said.

Weaseldog @ 46:

Hillary is grilling the Pet and Crock well.

The thing here is all these people running are going about business like. . . . hey nothing unusual is going on who cares what ya worried about! Tanking economy, mad max society, high gas, high food, war, market crashes, hey relax! We don't need to talk about that stuff.

You guys are right you know. I've heard talking heads say McCain isn't that old.(?) Karl Rove went after Mccain in 2000. In fact they, started rumors that McCain was crazy. And now he's thr Republican nominee! If this wasn't so serious, I would laugh.

bryancri @ 48:

I’m not concerned about sounding mean to someone like McCain. Maybe he needs a dose of his own medicine.

well, then, go right ahead. keep calling mccain names. you won't get very far in convincing his supporters to switch parties by calling him "stupid."

in fact, you'll probably convince them to remain supportive of john mccain.

if you just tell the story, using facts and logic, then there is no reason to call him names.

can't we just keep it civil? i think we'll see more progress if we keep things civil.

Peel off all of the hype over McCain and there's not much left.

After 5 1/2 years of Russian-style brain torture it's no surprise that McCain is confused & disoriented. He is unfit to lead.

Pro-war "Iraq Veterans for Congress", although Duncan Hunter's in there, and he's been in office since 1980.

Kieran Michael Lalor - New York's 19th District
David Bellavia - New York's 26th District
Will Breazeale – North Carolina’s 7th District
Mike Coffman - Colorado's 6th District
Wayne E. Harmon – Indiana’s 7th District
Duncan Hunter - California's 52nd District
Tom Manion - Pennsylvania's 8th District
Vince Micco - New Jersey's 9th District
Bentley Rayburn - Colorado's 5th District
Tom Roughneen - New Jersey's 7th District
William Russell – Pennsylvania’s 22nd District
Matt Salisbury – Idaho’s 1st District
Duane Sand North Dakota - At Large
Steve Stivers - Ohio's 15th District
Charlie Summers – Maine’s 1st District
Allen West – Florida’s 22nd District
Lee Zeldin - New York's 1st District

Peel off all of the hype over McCain and there’s not much left.

was there any doubt about the above claim?

was there any particular need to make the above claim?

bryancri @ 48:

I’m not concerned about sounding mean to someone like McCain. Maybe he needs a dose of his own medicine.

well, then, go right ahead. keep calling mccain names. you won't get very far in convincing his supporters to switch parties by calling him "stupid."

in fact, you'll probably convince them to remain supportive of john mccain.

if you just tell the story, using facts and logic, then there is no reason to call him names.

can't we just keep it civil? i think we'll see more progress if we keep things civil.

Seriously? You think my blog posts have the power to make people change parties? *snort* Thanks for the vote of confidence, but that's not the audience I expect we're dealing with.

I presented facts. I was not vulgar or without explanation. Nor did I actually resort to an isolated ad hominem. If his supporters' delicate sensibilities at having him called stupid for being patently and repeatedly wrong on what is the keystone of his entire campaign that they will support him MORE despite those facts presented, I have to say that I'm not sure they were savable any way.

And the whole "keep it civil" argument is the last refuge for those who know they have no defenses left. All they can do is cry that someone is being mean. Not untruthful. Not wrong. Just mean. You know what? It's not my job to make people feel okay about their cognitive dissonance.

pissed off patricia @ 55:

Gotta give credit where credit is due. Senator Clinton sounded and acted professional as hell. She moderated her voice and spoke with authority and knowledge.

So Petraeus and company were planning to go into Basra. Maliki decides they weren't moving fast enough for him so he takes off. Next thing you know he is calling our soldiers for help because he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Now our soldiers are having to help him clean up the mess he made. So who are our soldiers fighting for exactly?

They've been fighting to save Bush's ass for the last 5 years.

Nicole Belle @ 58:

bryancri @ 48:

I’m not concerned about sounding mean to someone like McCain. Maybe he needs a dose of his own medicine.

well, then, go right ahead. keep calling mccain names. you won't get very far in convincing his supporters to switch parties by calling him "stupid."

in fact, you'll probably convince them to remain supportive of john mccain.

if you just tell the story, using facts and logic, then there is no reason to call him names.

can't we just keep it civil? i think we'll see more progress if we keep things civil.

Seriously? You think my blog posts have the power to make people change parties? *snort* Thanks for the vote of confidence, but that's not the audience I expect we're dealing with.

I presented facts. I was not vulgar or without explanation. Nor did I actually resort to an isolated ad hominem. If his supporters' delicate sensibilities at having him called stupid for being patently and repeatedly wrong on what is the keystone of his entire campaign that they will support him MORE despite those facts presented, I have to say that I'm not sure they were savable any way.

And the whole "keep it civil" argument is the last refuge for those who know they have no defenses left. All they can do is cry that someone is being mean. Not untruthful. Not wrong. Just mean. You know what? It's not my job to make people feel okay about their cognitive dissonance.

Yes Nicole, because of your comments here, I have just changed my party affiliation from Dem to Repub. (snark bite)

Fourth from the bottom in his class! Now we see why!He is a dumb ass!

oh, and is not something that calm homo sapiens sapiens do. it helps to be calm during a debate.

‘Facts and Logic’ are just conspiracy theories.

so is it, in fact, a fact that mccain is "stupid"?

bryancri @ 67:

i mean to say, and 'snorting' is not something that homo sapiens sapiens do.

Sure it is. I just did it again as I noted you were completely unable to respond in any meaningful way to my last comment.

Liberal AND Proud @ 71:

Nicole...such harse words...you almost made my gender change. ; 0 )

I have to admit that I did go through a couple of dating years in the 80s where it seemed that I was able to change the sexual orientation of the guys I dated. Had a bit of a complex about it until a gay ex-boyfriend pointed out that the circles I ran around in were very gay (I was at university, studying business and art history, hoping to have my own gallery) and I was the one woman he'd consider being straight for. But the actual gender? That would be a first. ;)

here's what nicole actually wrote:

I can’t figure out if he’s doing this because he’s too stupid to learn and educate himself or if he buys into the Rovian theory that if you stubbornly keep repeating something over and over that eventually, it’s accepted as the truth

according to nicole, mccain is not just "too stupid," but "too stupid to learn and educate himself," which would actually imply that he is more lazy than stupid. as for the Rovian "theory" of endlessly repeating falsehoods, does anyone actually believe that mccain is trying to convince americans of this type of falsehood?

in any case, nicole said she can't figure it out. so perhaps mccain isn't actually stupid, lazy, or Rovian......but just tired.

bryancri @ 73:

Sure it is. I just did it again as I noted you were completely unable to respond in any meaningful way to my last comment.

that's not true, read post #65. if you 'snort' and call people 'stupid,' how is that an effective communication and/or debate strategy?

it would be very helpful if you could respond in a "meaningful" way.

and let me add, if you were to debate, say, john mccain or fred kagan or cokie roberts, would you 'snort' and call them 'stupid'? just curious.

You realize that we're on a written medium, correct? The denotation *snort* is akin to an audible snort, chuckle, or visual smirk, etc. of disbelief at what the other person has said. A tactic, I might add, we have documented McCain, Kagan and Roberts employing frequently, available to you with just a quick site search. The snort was reserved for you for your unbelievable statement that my asking if McCain is stupid since he keeps repeating incorrect information would keep people from switching parties.

That said, I never said "McCain is stupid." I said that I can't figure out if he is stupid or just stubbornly repeating incorrect information that affects the lives of our troops on the ground, hoping that it becomes true by repetition. A "meaningful" discussion cannot be had by you and I if you insist on attributing statements to me that are not what I said.

And yes, if I had the opportunity to ask McCain, I would phrase it as follows:

Sen. McCain, you have repeatedly conflated al Qaeda, a Sunni extremist group with the Shi'a in Iraq. It's been pointed out to you several times, including by your colleague Sen. Lieberman. Why do you continue to do so? Is it that you are unable to retain that information or are you hoping to purposefully confuse the American people because the truth is that our situation in Iraq is unwinnable and we are caught in the crossfire of sects and sub-sects of age-old tribal battles? How can you claim to be able to win the fight against extremist swhen you cannot bother to educate yourself on exactly who we are fighting? Do you think that the American public is that stupid?

And yes, I would absolutely audibly snort if he gave any other answer than his reputed 'straight talk'. I do not suffer fools gladly.

As to Roberts and Kagan (off topic, but what the hell), yes, I would certainly do the same thing. In fact, I would probably be less respectful of them because I hold the media to blame for much of the misinformation out there.

though i completely agree that mccain is ridiculously misinformed, it doesn’t help your argument to say, “mccain is too stupid…..” he might be too lazy, too tired, who knows?

but, “too stupid” sounds mean.

It is meant to sound mean. McCain is no hero. He crashed 5 planes, mostly in training. The last one he crashed landed him in a POW camp. He survived, that is good, but it doesn't make him a hero or an expert on combat.

McAncient: Shi'ites, Sunnis or anybody else.
McCognitiveDifficulties
McIWontLastInOffice

It is likely that mccain's run for the presidency will be noteworthy mainly for the VP nominee he has chosen for him. Because of his aggressively recurring melanoma, and his potential issues with senility, he will likely not be able to complete even a portion of his first term. It is crucial to evaluate fully the nominee for vice president, perhaps even more closely than the need to evaluate mccain.

It is crucial to evaluate fully the nominee for vice president, perhaps even more closely than the need to evaluate mccain.

now this is a sobering, objective statement. no need to name call. just keep it civil.

i would expect as much from our bloggers, as our commenters.

I'm only watching another Right Wing-Nut cover up of the obvious truth of the civil war in Iraq.

How many is that? Do we need a "John McCain Embarrassing Gaffe" scorecard?

bryancri@82 Mr. Apologist no one called McFraud stupid because he was a POW and he just couldn't seem to fly planes. He's stupid because he wholeheartedly supports history's worst President. He jokes and sings about bombing a country. He's so fucking dumb that he thinks Al Qaeda is a group of shi'ites. Hey, I'll bet McMore of Bush can bowl 200.

Timmy@92 Fine I'll just say McWar was at best, a little ambivalent on the Iraq/shi'ite question(again)...and I'm being generous. But I noticed that you didn't disagree with my other two points. McDumb.

mccain has gotten a lot of things wrong, and he will continue to do so. and he is unfit for the presidency. no reasonable person disputes this.

but as for the unreasonable people out there: how can you educate them without resorting to calling their man names? isn't it more effective to simply point out the errors, rather than insulting the person who's making the errors?

seems pretty simple to me.

McCain is showing a consistent pattern in mispeaking, that should be pointed out.

Remember when ray gun blamed trees for pollution and considered ketchup a vegetable?

And then he became one.

bryancri@96 Where the hell have you been the last decade? I don't know about you bryancri but I'm mad and tired of getting my ass beat. We progressives got our asses kicked in 2000, 2002, 2004 helpless and hopelessly watching Conservatives piss on the country. Things changed in 2006 when Democrats got mad and fought back. These Repubs fight so dirty. You can remain "above it all" from your imaginary perch if you want. Me, I want to fight their asses.

nicole was wrong, i pointed it out, and she fails to see the reasoning.

to me, it's pretty clear. keep it civil, don't your lose your temper.

if you want to respected as a "citizen journalist", then you need to keep your cool.

do you think andrew sullivan calls people names?

For someone running on foreign policy experience this is inexcusable. Notice how his initial question conflates Al Qaeda in Iraq (a good thing since most would just say Al Qaeda), with the Shia? The following statement regarding Sunni's and everyone else trails off and could be easily over-looked.

It's like when booshco used close proximity between statements regarding 9-11 and Saddam, so people thought Saddam was behind 9-11, and when it was discovered how they encouraged this connection, they could truthfully say they never SAID he was behind it, but they certainly implied it.

There's a reason why McCain can't get this straight in his head. He doesn't care. To him Sunis, Shi'ites, Kurds and whatever are all just other kinds of "Gooks" and McCain hates "Gooks".

"McCain Confuses al Qaeda in Iraq with Shi’ites. Again."

It's this way with the GOP. It's like all black people look alike to them.

108 Nicole Belle Says: bryancri @ 102:

You are so disingenous that it’s not really worth commenting, but I felt the need to point out that your argument holds no water.

You broke his water?

bryancri@101 I never said to reduce ourselves to the cesspool levels of the Republicans, I said we must fight back. The torture analogy was hyperbolic because unlike the Republicans, I respect the nation's laws. Thank you for the "multiple choice" responses I that you feel I should give conservatives during debates. Me, I'd rather call them out for being the lying fucking Constitution hating arch-American war criminals that they are.

Left&Left, don't be too hard on them. Some conservatives are ignorant, authoritarian, cult-of-personality bootlickers who delude themselves daily about, say, the importance of wearing the appropriate lapel pin and other things that make America exceptional. Questioning the government does not matter because their characters are hard-wired to insure that they are going to be one of the fuck's wearing the jackboots, not have their neck under them.

McCain-he is still a fucking liar. He might be another prince of mediocrity like Bush is the King thereof but he really does know better.

i am starting to think that no one in DC knows what is going on in iraq anymore. biden referred to the anbar salvation council as a shiite group in his questioning! seriously people, who the hell is running this country?

I think you are misreading this one. He's gotten this topic wrong before, but I've read this one over and over and I believe he's making the point of COMPARING the relevence of the threat of al-qaeda versus other groups in Iraq.

MCCAIN: Do you still view al Qaeda in Iraq as a major threat?
(asking is AQ still the main enemy)

PETRAEUS: It is still a major threat, though it is certainly not as major a threat as it was say 15 months ago.
(yes)

MCCAIN: Certainly not an obscure sect of the Shi’ites overall?
(and some obsure shiite sect is not a big threat, is it?)

PETREAUS: No.

MCCAIN: Or Sunnis or anybody else.

So, a broken clock is still right sometimes. He may not know what the f* he is talking about, but in this case I think it was a bad way of making the comparison, not senile dementia

Give McKissass a break. He's a great-grandpa. Well at least he's of that age.

Oh yeah, well, Barack Obama is such a doofus, that he doesn't know the difference between Iran and Iraq:

U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ RYAN CROCKER: Senator, as I said in my statement, we have no problem with a good, constructive relationship between Iran and Iraq. The problem is with the Iranian strategy of backing extremist militia groups and sending in weapons and munitions that are used against Iraqis and against our own forces.

OBAMA: Do we feel confident that the Iraqi government is directing these -- this aid to these special groups?

Do we feel confident about that, or do we think that they're just tacitly tolerating it? Do you have some sense of that?

See, Obama clearly doesn't know the difference between Iran and Iraq!!! See!!! See!!! What a dummy! He ought to change his name to Senator Doofy O'Doofsen because he is just so doofy.

Not knowing the difference between Iran and Iraq. Sheesh.

[end sarcasm]

While you all are having your fun with this, you really know that McCain merely misspoke. Shiite--Sunni. Iran--Iraq. It's called a slip of the tongue. Hell, Ted Kennedy famously had problems with Obama--Osama.

How many of you had siblings growing up, and when your mom called out to you would often call you by your sibling's name? Doesn't mean your mom is ignorant of the difference between you and your siblings. She just misspoke.

That sword you're using there cuts both ways.

Additionally, once is a slip of the tongue, but repeatedly as in McCain's case, seems like lack of knowledge or indifference.

And we can be reasonably certain Obama doesn't want to start a war with Iran, we can't be so certain with McCain.

121 bryancri

Patriotism and upatriotic in the political discourse is essentially like national interest, devoid of inherent meaning to try to kill a debate to engage in one. Treason you might try looking up in Article III Sec III of the US Constitution.