The Foxheads -- with Megyn Kelly leading the torchlight parade on her (ahem) morning "news" show -- were all worked up over another quote pulled out of the files of Imam Fiesal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the so-called "Ground Zero mosque":
"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than Al Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims," said Imam Fiesal Abdul Rauf, speaking at the Bob Hawke Prime Ministerial Center during a question and answer session dedicated to what sponsors say was a dialogue to improve relations between America and the Muslim world.
"You may remember that the U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations," said Rauf, who called himself a spokesman for Islam.
Now, one may or may not quibble with Rauf's example -- namely, the prewar sanctions against Iraq that Saddam indeed used as an excuse for letting his people starve.
But there's no doubt that we have innocent Iraqi blood on our hands. At last count, the toll stood between 97,000-106,000 civilians killed in Iraq because we visited war on their country. In 2009 alone -- a year in which the toll decreased -- there were 4,644 civilian deaths recorded. So much for comparisons to the 3,000 killed on 9/11.
I'm a little surprised there's any question about this at all. But then in Fox-land, America under Bush did nothing but good and kind things around the world.
Really? After all this time? After all your time observing what is broadcast on FOX? I am a little surpised
you didn't put some snark sign at the end. I, myself, am more suprised they didn't just make up something long before this.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
2002 to present.
Tank Driver
Blowing things up.
I've always thought that you held an intelligent, precise, and unique worldview, a mix of sarcasm, pragmatism, and resignation.
a taxpayer funded "junket." Or suggest the Obama administration is using public funds to send him on middle east "pilgrimages."
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Howie Carr, a local Boston conservative radio and newspaper guy already pulled the "he's traveling to see his terrorists buddies on our dime, thanks to Barry Hussein Obama". He said almost that exact quote last night. I actually screamed at the top of my lungs in the car "HE WORKED FOR THE BUSH WHITE HOUSE TOO!!"
stealth holdover?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
is a movie, loosely based on historical fact, wherein orlando bloom does his best errol flynn imitation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kingdom_of_H...
but it does serve the purpose of illustrating some interesting points about religious conflict.
yes, the USA has blood on its hands, but it didn't start with the shrub, it started in the early 1900's, about the time wilson was running the reds out of this country. another dem president made out to look like the good guy, when the truth is he served the interests of the moneyed elite, just as our current potus.
fact of the matter is, islam was spread by the sword, just ask the hindus in india, all of these religions have killed enough people to pile the bodies a mile high. as has capitalism, communism, and various other isms, there is plenty enough blame to go around.
How did Wilson miss your ancestors?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
read up about the palmer raids, the red scare, they saw the challenge to the system, and crushed any dissent unmercifully.
both my gramps were new deal democrats, don't know about the women. as for accepting the marxist critique, i read his books, only confirmed what i had already figured out.
Bet you didn't need more than a few trips to the park to find Darwin a trifle boring.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
but you learn stuff from observation, doesn't mean i think i am smarter than they were, just means i yam what i yam, and i make no apologies.
isn't most of human knowledge derivative? isn't that what mnemonics is all about?
I just know derivatives are something we can blame things on. Like Muslims.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
and their derivatives.
I guess that's if you ignore the millions of people that were killed so that the USA could exist. Or do native Americans not count?
but no, the people are not forgotten, i could bring up that out of what? 367 treaties made with native-americans, 2 were actually honored? gotta give it to the seminoles, didn't they only sign a truce? still technically at war with the US? you may know better than i.
Our country may have started to set our sights on other countries in the early 1900s, but lest we forget, this entire nation was founded upon genocide of the Native American population, much of the West was forcibly stolen from the Mexican population, and much of our economic might was build on the backs of enslaved Africans.
The blood trail commenced much earlier than the early 1900s. In fact, we wouldn't even be a nation if our ancestors hadn't slaughtered millions of human beings and occupied their land.
but my ancestors didn't get here until the 1880's, not that we didn't do our worst, but still where does it stop? most of the masses have done their best just to get by, struggling under conditions controlled by a minority, same as it is now.
What "left wing media" outlet has donated a million dollars to the Democratic Governors?
They left fact checking and facts behind them a long time ago. Now they just say whatever they believe will get people stirred up.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
They'll say two contradictory things at the same time, knowing that both will stick.
who allowed 100 friends and family members of the Bin Ladens safe passage out of the United States on 9/12 when every other flight was grounded? Why doesn't the "fair and balanced" Fox Terror Channel bring that up?
Instead, they want to play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon and conclude that Obama is a radical marxist because he once knew a guy who heard of someone who once read a book about Chinese checkers.
..closer to One million?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
The research survey that arrrived at 1 million was done before the 2004 election, it should be significantly larger than that.
The problem is that the "God fearing true blue Amurikens" out there will NEVER see nor understand this point of view. Imperialism has always been justified, first by the British and their war mongering ways which basically created an atmosphere that has festered since India declared their independence thus creating Pakistan and the basic destablization of Central Asia. We are no better than the British were during their reign on terror when the sun never set on the British Empire.
Daisy cutter.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12412...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
kirk's castile
and chandrika if i feel adventurous
listening to a 1.5 hour speech from 5 years ago and taking notes.
I would think that the deaths caused from the sanctions would be irrefutable, while total deaths from the war need to be sorted between innocent civilians and al Qaeda fighters.
I don't think you'll ever get an accurate count. It's a lot easier to say that the guy with the AK who ran outside of his house when he heard gunshots is "Al Qaeda" than to say he was a guy protecting his family who got caught in the crossfire.
No, I understand that.
My point is that, and this is just the impression I get, the deaths caused by the US sanctions on Iraq ought to be tough to refute. Seems like there'd be some hard numbers there.
On the other hand, we're killing both civilians and al Qaeda fighters in Iraq now. As you pointed out, that seems to be something we'll never get a reliable count on either way.
The ONLY body counts that count on FOXPravda are the one's that work in favor of Republican Propaganda.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
.
Of course it's NOT killing innocent people when the USA kills them...
... YES?
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
I couldn't make it through the whole thing.
This fucking two minutes of hate is so god-damned irresponsible on the part of Fox News. To bring on this fucking "conservative columnist" twit and have her repeatedly say bullshit like "they want an apology" and shit like that.
The Imam makes a very innocuous statement regarding how some Muslims perceive the US - which is 100% accurate, regardless of the political machinations that lead to this perception.
By the way, which part of a half million dead children do they not understand?
Great idea, Fox! Stir up the lizard brains - I bet that will make sure they vote. The irony is that Fox is well aware of the potential "collateral damage" this "news report" will cause.
Fuck it. Is it too early for whiskey?
1 murkin = 1000 brown people
Check with your broker before investing.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
This thread is another typical example of how the left does not know how to respond politically to the right.
The answer is NOT...look how many Muslims that AMERICA has killed. That makes you a Muslim sympathizer. It makes you an American hater...and the right will quickly turn the argument around and make it about YOU.
No, politically the response is...look how many Muslims BUSH'S WARS have killed. Look how much money has been wasted on BUSH'S WARS. President Obama has tried to stop the killing and is working to withdraw, but right wing BUSH HOLDOVERS in his Administration are preventing that. They are also preventing the President from doing more on the economy.
It's about ATTACK...facts...not so much. Until the left learns HOW you fight this, they will continue to lambasted and run over.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
was not a REAL American.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
They are not ready to have an adult conversation, the fact that every other media outlet treats them as if they are, is what frustrates most people. Fox runs its opinion channel with the idea that "you can not prove it will not happen" mentality.
They
are not readydo not want to have an adult conversation, the fact that every other media outlet treats them as if theyaredo, is what frustrates most people. Fox runs its opinion channel with the idea that "you can not prove it will not happen" mentality."There...fixed it for ya.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
hope that there aren't any churches or christian community centers being built in Iraq.
David,
Please read the following article,
http://www.counterpunch.org/andrew07162010.html
It details the history of U.S. sanctions against Iraq. There is absolutely no doubt that our nation has an incomprehensible amount of blood on its hand from these very sanctions. Denis Halliday, U.N. Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq, described our sanctions regime as "genocidal." He was right. Saddam (the former CIA asset, the man whose coup we supported, and the man who we armed for nearly an entire decade in the 1980s) was never a saint, but the mid-90s U.S.-imposed sanctions were nothing short of barbaric, cruel, inhumane, and downright evil.
The thing is, the rest of the world knows this. It's common knowledge. As to whether US political leaders and pundits don't know, or don't give a shit, I'm not sure.
A very important point many miss or forget.
That a human life is a human life regardless of color, religion, or sex. We are all the same species and should be working together as a species not against each other but for the greater good of everyone.
I don't understand how an US American can think that it is OK for us to be killing so many civilians. We lost 3000 people and that is a horrible tragedy but how are we any different when we go around killing other countries people as well? Its illogical and stupid. They used planes to attack us, we just happen to have cruise missiles and the most expensive military in the world, so we do a little more damage(to a country that didn't even attack us btw). This country sometimes makes me extremely sick to my stomach.
I love when Fox News uses Bill Clinton quotes as a way to support their argument. Any other day, the Clintons are scum, but when it comes to Iraq and terrorism, they are dead on.
...This is the big, bad USof A, we invented Levis and shit. We can kill whomever we want, got a problem with that?
"He wrote this book here and the book says ; He made us all to be just like him So, if we're dumb, then god is dumb and maybe even a little ugly on the side".
Frank Zappa
It's interesting that it is considered Patriotic to refuse to hold our country responsible for its actions. To take the position that all we do is in the name of good.
What kind of pollyanna is that?
I agree with Mayor Bloomberg's position regarding the "mosque."
And the notion that every block near Ground Zero is hallowed ground is a ruse of demagogues, since it is commercial space already overrun with bars, fast-food chains and strip clubs.
But one of the things I like about the First Amendment is the way it spares me from having to agree with someone before respecting his rights.
I stopped listening to this particular holy man when he called the U.S. an accessory in the attacks on the World Trade Center -- three weeks after the event. "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened. But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened."
Let's defend his rights. But don't ask me to like him, or to respect his authority as a man of god, or agree with him.
has been successfully propagandized out of public consciousness, even on blogs like C&L. But the methodology they used was considered 'tried and true' in every other case but Iraq. Funny that.
http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?a...
The numbers are still too horrifying to accept, but the breakdown of moral cognition should not be ceded.
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