They Knew
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And we knew they knew and we were right. ABC News aired a segment on their daily news show that after a five month investigation, they could say that Bush's most senior officials not only knew about the torture they were inflicting on suspected terrorists, but decided down to the last detail exactly how much torture to inflict.
The discussions in the White House were top secret and sources say, involve some of the President’s most senior and influential advisors, principals of the National Security Council. In dozens of private talks and meetings, sources said that a handful of top advisors discussed specific high-value al Qaeda prisoners and exactly how those prisoners would be interrogated. Whether, for example, they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding. The discussion about the “enhanced interrogation techniques” were so detailed, sources said, the interrogations were almost choreographed, down to the number of times the CIA could use a specific tactic. Former CIA director George Tenet, in an interview last year with ABC News told Charles Gibson,
“It was authorized. It was legal, according to the Attorney General of the United States.”
It also was discussed and approved in meetings by the National Security Council’s Principals Committee, a group that included Vice President Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, John Ashcroft.
There's your war crimes tribunal list right there. While ABC brings up two terrorists that were connected to 9/11--implying that even though our country's leaders have dragged us down to torturing people, at least they directed it at bad men who committed the worst tragedy on American soil--but what they fail to connect are names like Maher Arar, Khaled al-Masri, Bisher al-Rawi and Mohamed Farag Ahmad Bashmilah. Names of innocent men who were guilty of nothing more than being Muslim and were renditioned and tortured for information they could not provide.
So while it is a small comfort that a MSM is actually acknowledging and validating things that the liberal blogosphere have been yelling about for years, it is but a incremental step towards the truth that all Americans must know.
Took a 5-month investigation to figure it out? Sheesh.
And now that they've spent two minutes covering it in-between commercials, we'll never hear about it again. Way to go, M$M!
War criminals. They should be impeached. Period.
The Hague is waiting.
IMPEACH!
Institutionalization is called for, these are very sick people.
I wonder if any of this will make a damn bit of difference...
This is what Dubya meant by telling Woodward he didn't care because everyone involved would be dead by then.
He wasn't referring to his overall place in history - he was referring to his role as the American Caligula.
But the tiny brained folk are falling in line behind Teflon John McBush who will continue Dubya's destruction of America.
Cheney's going to escape to the new Halliburton headquarters in Dubai. Better get the marshalls to the White House before January 2009.
As the Dick would say, "SO?!"
Will ANYTHING be done to bring these obvious war criminals to justice?
OK. Now we have proof, but will our leaders do anything abiout it? Of course not. We will have to wait until BushCo. is out of office and international leaders do something. Our government if feeble and has no interest to punish their own. After all, a lot of them are criminals themselves.
We will never have a chance of regaining the respect of the world unless we eject these bozos and send them to jail for life, where they belong.
I suspect that there's more than just torture afoot - we'll likely find that these thugs-with-flag-pins have documented their abuse of the Constitution to the point that they talk openly about surveillance and KBR relocation camps.
But I'm afraid both the media and the Democratic leadership will wring their hands, say 'alas, if only we had known the depths of perfidy,' and DO NOTHING.
Of course they violated the Geneva convention and committed war crimes. Pelosi and Reid are guilty of war crimes too for their silence and sitting on their hands as far as I'm concerned.
I know this was only one small step, but I applaud ABC for taking it. At least they did something. Where it goes from here, we'll see. It seems the rest of the media, the govt. and some of the country are just too lazy to pursue anything related to this.
Would someone PLEASE ask Obama and Clinton if when president they will pusue war crimes charges if elected!?
They Knew
Biblically?
I feel a little screwed.
I wonder if this will help or hurt Condi's chances of being McCain's veep? These days you just don't know. The part of the country that is still peeing in their pants at just the mention of the word "terrorist" would probably like to have someone on the ticket who ok's waterboarding.
NUCLEAR MCCAIN @ 4:
Ain't going to happen. Pelosi stored the impeachment table in the attic a long time ago. First it was the taxpayer funded S&L bailout in the 80's a la Neil Bush now the Iraq debacle a la George Bush. The Bush Crime Family and their surrogates have screwed America and gotten by with it once more.
Too bad none of them got a BJ in the white house so we could actually have something to impeach them for!!
Sven @ 13:
That would be a charge of either accessory before or after the fact, maybe both.
I'm not sure how protected politicians are like court officials from what they may do in the course of their profession.
However, I don't think anyone is allowed to act in a way contrary to the ethics of their profession, or the average person also in their profession. Also they cannot perform acts that have nothing to do with their profession.
I forget the legal term, but it's like a delivery truck has an accident, he's covered by his company. But if he deviated from his route to boink his sweety, and on the way to or from her home the accident occurrs that's not considered to be within the scope of his employment.
Even if he works for Scope mouthwash.
they all knew! what did they know? they all knew iraq had nothing , nothing to do with our governments attack on 911!
Exhibit nnn, for the prosecution, ICC at the Hague, War Crimes Tribunal.
The nazis tried to use the excuse that the atrocities they perpetrated we're OK, because they were approved and adoptedunder the German nazi legal code. Nobody bought that flimsy argument. More recently, the crimes for which Saddam Hussein was just executed were legal under his dictatorship. "Legality" doesn't wash in any of these cases.
In the history of our own legal system we have executed and imprisoned war criminals for torture and mistreatment, including this:
http://712educators.about.com/cs/historycw/l/blcwphmisc20.htm
The hanging was carried out on the National Mall. Now, because a group of malignantly twisted thugs need cover, atrocities are suddenly fine and dandy? I think any independent international tribunal would make short work of that.
Wow. And here I'd written off mainstream journalism as dead. Of course, it's a day late and a dollar short, proverbially speaking, and they were too cowardly to point out what have been definitely dozens (and probably hundreds) of innocent people this administration have ruined -- and probably in a few cases, murdered -- but, hey, it's a start.
Everyone, keep reminding your friends and family that the ringleader of all of this has given his blessing to John McCain. War hero and torture victim himself notwithstanding, the Republican candidate is effectively endorsing these crimes and we need to make sure people do not ignore that.
The interrogator's were scapegoated and crucified while the people responsible got off Scott free. King Bush is a law onto himself and hides his dirty deeds behind the thin excuse of "executive privilege" Can a president be brought up on charges of treason against the USA after he leaves the " whorehouse"? Whoops mean white house..
ABC had better be careful. Disney World could lose its no fly zone status. Can't have the turrists targeting Mickey Mouse.
14All @ 11:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvzUdM29_uA
Disgusting, vile, backward, useless, evil toads. May they reap all they have sown threefold. And when their time of need arrives let no friend, no solace, no comfort and no safe haven be found for ANY of them.
So when do they all start repeating "I didn't know.", "I wasn't aware." and "I was just following orders." ??
Echoes of German national socialists on trial at Nuremberg.
Short letter I just sent to Nancy Pelosi:
Dear Speaker Pelosi,
Now that we have incontrovertible proof, thanks to ABC news, that the president and his most senior officials planned, implemented and approved a systematic application of torture, will you consider putting impeachment back "on the table"? I ask you, if this does not constitute as a "high crime", exactly what does? I appreciate hearing your explanation of what, exactly, President Bush's administration has not done to justify impeachment and prosecution.
The current administration has embraced such a state of lawlessness and totalitarian machination that I look back with fondness and regret to the days when Richard Nixon was our president. And you and the rest of Congress still refuse to impeach, while Cheney looks right at the camera and says, "So?" These men and women belong in prison, not at the helm of a country that once had the respect of the world.
I had such high hopes for you when you gained your office. I know many other women who felt the same way. Please do not disappoint us.
Sincerely,
XXXXX
Sven @ 15:
Good advise. At the next debates, Hillary and Obama(and eventually McCain) should
be asked a specific question. "If it is proven that war crimes were committed by the
individuals in the previous administration, what do you intend to do in order to see
that steps are taken to prosecute?"
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 25:
Mickey might get a special mailing with anthrax in it.
This is scary. There have been so many things we "thought" they might have done but deep inside we thought perhaps we were jumping the shark with our ideas. Now when something like this comes to light and is proven, you wonder what other dastardly deeds that we have thought about have they also actually done or are about to do?
"SO?" Who didn't know this? From the instant the drones and missles hit on 9/11, to Dubya's solemn State of the Union speech filled with LIES, to the "shock and awe" destruction of Iraq and it's people, to the Patriot Act, etc. this administration has done nothing but commit crimes against the American People, the Constitution of the United States of America and humanity. All in the name of arrogance and greed - for power and money.
There is no question that those named above and many more in this cabal should be brought to justice. Will that happen? Not likely, as the entire Congress is bought and paid for, or operating under some kind of threat. And all of these people are part of and protected by the international cabal that runs the world - you know the Fed, the IMF, WTO, CFR, World Bank, Bilderberg, UN, etc. Cheney, Bush, et al are just doing the bidding of the global elite to suck as much as they can out of the US.
We'll all forget about these silly little crimes right after they pull the rug completely out from under the economy and the recession/depression hits full force. Who will have time to worry about finding, trying and prosecuting these monsters? We'll all be busy growing food and trying to keep our houses warm, if we still have one.
TakeOurCountryBack @ 19:
McCain could suck GWB's dick in front of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue on Labor Day in front of the entire media and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
The MSM would talk about the need for relief from Presidential stress and how John McCain was performing a patriotic duty.
Dr. Acula @ 30:
No, D-Con.
They have known about a lot of things....
things that they knew in advance....
things that they were creating and orchestrating...
things that they knew were false.....
and things that they knew the real source of....
this administration cares little about the 4032 lives of the uniformed military - the highest revered group in the pro-state mentality...
do you really think they'd care so much about so many thousands of civilians if they were lost in one day if it advanced their strategic goals?
Patricia, How many times I have said,"This is it!" only to find it gets swept under the rug, yet again. People wonder why people like us get so apathetic.
14All @ 28:
Good work and very concise. That's the kind of letter that gets read.
In the words of the great John McClain:
"Welcome to the party pal!"
Amitola @ 32:
And the planned "die off" begins in 3...2...1...
I thought ABC had been bending their coverage right-wards. Are they re-positioning against the Administration given the political climate?
pissed off patricia @ 17
Rice will be touted as an expert in foreign policy. The repug sheep will shout "Yea, Rice for VP!" This country has no shame. The next time some of these repugs are on TV, such as McConnell, Graham, Lieberman;take a good look at these evil, dishonest faces. They lie and unfortunately the citizenry believes them.
14All @ 28:
I hope you used a pseudonym. If not, then it was nice knowing you, I'm sure the SA will be visiting your house shortly to make you "disappear."
liberAL @ 40:
the bitch has good taste in shoes!!! she quilifys
Someone should make a video of clips of all the times bush has said, "We do not torture" Then end it with bits from this ABC report.
pissed off patricia @ 36:
And then ignored by our Speaker of the House.
I'm still convinced the torture, the renditions, the Gulag at Guantanamo, etc, are all parts of an elaborate coverup to shield those actually responsible for the attacks of 9-11.
All of these Reslug criminals should be waterboarded for a week and then hung for treason.
I wonder how many members of congress where briefed on this?
pissed off patricia @ 43:
Good idea and plan, BUT it will never happen...at least not on any MSM outlet.
Can you put yourself in the place of those who were innocent but tortured for information they couldn't supply.
Doggiebobo @ 48:
If it's not on Youtube by tomorrow I'll be surprised. Fuck the msm. Not literally of course you'll catch something.
pissed off patricia @ 17:
That's right, POP!
And please Condi, run as VP on McFraud's pathetic ticket, you wicked, ugly bitch! The MSM is myth making again suggesting you as VP considering your dog shit performance as National Security Adviser and Secretary of State.
diamondmc @ 47:
I was sitting here wondering the same thing. Did Jane Harman know about these details? If they were sworn to secrecy, can they talk about it now? It's not like it's a secret any longer.
pissed off patricia @ 43:
what's the old saying about lawyers? "How can you tell when a lawyer is lying...? Just check to see if his lips are moving." Same goes for King Bush.
Left&Left @ 51:
I heard this morning that a poll was taken in NY state and if McCain and Condi were on the repub ticket, they would beat both Obama and Hillary.
PoP. don't believe that poll. It's only propagnda.
Any Democrat who does not move to Impeach is as much of a criminal as these Republican monsters.
I wash my hands with the lot of them.
pissed off patricia @ 52:
If we had a real press in this country, some of these questions would get answered. It would be nice to have the names of the congress men and women who knew about this and said nothing. Whoever knew should be voted out of office. Also how much did McCain, Obama and Hillary know? The public has a right to know.
"In the tense days after 911..."
Main stream PROPAGANDA.
Nuremberg Part II. I'm also so tired of the MSM and even democrats speak highly of Colin Powell. He is one of the most duplicitous of all giving the infamous testimony to the UN in the lead up to the war. He's a WAR Criminal just like Rumsy, Cheney, Tenet, Rice, & Bush!
And look what has happened! It has become CHIC to imprison and torture people and put it on Myspace!
The Bush Legacy has done severe damage to our wonderful country.
I have never wanted to burn a flag until today.
14all: That was a great letter to Ms. Pelosi. I hope that if and when you get a reply, you will post it here. There has got to be a "Tipping Point." I don't think I could get out of bed in the morning if I did not believe that to be true.
While a tiny step forward MSM coverage, the piece still repeats the administration assertion that al Quaeda suspects gave up real, valid true information under torture. The people who got information out of captured Nazis the old fashioned (i.e. constitutional) way, through building relations and rapport over time, will tell you this isn't the case. It was the torture of Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libbi that produced the false info Powell shared with the UN in the lead-up to the war. Because this piece reproduces the "torture works" meme, the vast majority of "24" watching Americans will say: not nice, but keeps us safe. Which it does not. (In additional to being barbarous and horrific and wrong.)
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/torture-or-...
Ruthless People @ 18:
You left out PRESCOTT BUSH and profiting with the NATZI's during WWII and REFUSING to sell the US the same technoligy and of course IRAN/CONTRA illegal sale of ARMS and illigal activities in central America which was also the basis of the 'OCTOBER SURPRIZE' which was a direct effort to deal with OUR 'enimies', the hostige takers in Teran in order to UNDERMINE our democratic electorial process...
So it runs for multiple generations - Obviously a gentic trait of criminality and anti-democratic tendencies.
What is the penalty for war criminal now a days?
They get a medal, no?
Hey everyone, you can take some solace in the fact that Scooter Libby almost went to jail.
Kind of pathetic isn't it?
missmarple @ 49:
Equally important, can you put yourself in the place of anyone tortured, no matter what they knew.
The Geneva Conventions, to which we are a signatory, forbids torture.
The Attorney General saying it is legal does not make it so.
So can we stop deifying Powell now?
There’s your war crimes tribunal list right there. While ABC brings up two terrorists that were connected to 9/11–implying that even though our country’s leaders have dragged us down to torturing people, at least they directed it at bad men who committed the worst tragedy on American soil–but what they fail to connect are names like Maher Arar, Khaled al-Masri, Bisher al-Rawi and Mohamed Farag Ahmad Bashmilah. Names of innocent men who were guilty of nothing more than being Muslim and were renditioned and tortured for information they could not provide.
The fact is, we can't even be sure that those two terrorists were guilty, if they were tortured to get the information.
pissed off patricia @ 65:
I take solace int he fact that GWB is just a mortal man and that eventually he will join Ronald Reagan.
Put things in perspective people! Sure this sounds bad, but Bill Clinton lied about a blow job!
pissed off patricia @ 54:
I don't believe polls until a week before any election. As time goes on Rice will be exposed as the war criminal that she is. The Repubs will use her unqualified butt again(just like Alan Keyes) simply because she is black. Conservatives, who swear to be against Affirmative Action, consistently use minorities in this fashion.
“It was authorized. It was legal, according to the Attorney General of the United States.”
The "final solution" was also authorized - by Hitler and his staff. That did not make that right either. You can't authorize your own illegal acts!
There is a face missing on that photo--Bush, the Criminal in Chief.
Sven @ 13:
She took an Oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
Her blatant disregard for this oath is impeachable in my opinion.
She is Bush's enabler.
And let's not forget that she campaigned for the war to begin with. She worked hard to get us where we are today.
ysbaddaden @ 16:
that's because you have been screwed... so have most of the American population by this band of crooks, liars, and avaricious ba$tards!!
Now what are you gonna do about it?
Ron @ 68:
No, I think it is very clear that the TERRORISTS WERE GUILTY..
Powell, Rice, Bush, Chenny, Rumsfeld, Tenant, Libby, Gonzolas... ALL GUILTY, all terrorists.
I want to go to a hanging!
When will we bring justice to this country and the world???
We could make a list of Condi's accomplishments. That shouldn't take long.
pissed off patricia @ 54:
The GOP need a VP to watch over McCain.
Guess Who? Ms. Rice
It's horrifying but brace yourself. They could win.
The odds are high .
The GOP will not lose the Red states with this combo.
someday i hope to live in a country that doesn't condone this type of behavior.
right on! @ 75:
Oh puleeeeze...what are we gonna do about it...easy...put on American Idol and wait with great anticipation for new episodes of "24". When we really wanna get crazy, we'll order the "24" DVD box set!!
IMPEACH!
Condi Rice will not be the VP candidate ,imo. She has too much baggage.
Again, "What has she accomplished or succeeded in doing?"
Nothing. She'll be too easy to attack with her track record.
Liberal AND Proud @ 80:
I was afraid you'd say that... complacent compliance, the new American dream...
Sometimes I wish I had a pea sized brain and didn't know or give a shit about what's going on. I bet life is a lot easier if you are numb to everything outside your own tiny circle.
Left&Left @ 71:
Please, you have double standard in play here. It is certainly not all right to use a pejorative based on ethnicity, it is also not all right based on gender.
Stick with the facts.
Ms Rice has a very serious problem vis á vis war crimes.
The more information that comes out, despite the cavalier and indifferent stance of the Corporate Media, the more damned this cast of characters becomes.
The dots are being steadily connected.
torture of another person is sex for some. clearly these people are of the most depraved there are. Pinochet, Mao, Goebbels, they would be proud that their teachings have been applied to what was once a democracy
impeach, imprison, execute.
Levi @ 76:
They have the wrong ones in prison.
The entire house of cards is starting to collapse.
Either they will go for broke and things will get really, really ugly (false flag attack),
or they will slow down their NWO agenda. Hubris has gotten them exposed
for the evil they have perpetrated and the people of the world are waking up
to their tactics. The truth will out.
Time to re-open Alcatraz for the torturers, tax dodgers (Cheney's deferred billions) and vote frauds.
oldtree @ 86:
Ah, this is what is known as a limited hangout. I think most knowledgable are aware the transgressions of these people were far more egregious.
These are facts!!
Dont characterize those identified as forgetful.
Characterize them as morally corrupt and inhuman ON THE FACTS!
None of them deserve to be referred to in any other way.
These people should hence forth be publicly know ON THE FACTS as inhuman and the authors of INTERNATIONAL crimes and international criminals.
ALL OF THEM.
right on! @ 83:
Actually I've been watching Captain Marvel, King of the Rocketmen, The Shadow, Daredevils of the Red Circle, Dr. Who, Washington Week in Review, NOW, Foreign Exchange, and Bill Moyer's Journal ( I always want to say Mahr.)
Zenrage @ 61:
And my neighbors wonder why we don't fly the flag. Every house on our block here in Repubville has one, except ours. I'm afraid I may go outside for a smoke some day and the temptation would be too great.
What happened to the days? Used to be a few decades ago that if ABC broke this news (yeah, old news I know), every MSM outlet would be picking it up and running it. Oh yeah, I forgot MSM sold out. My bad. It probably wouldn't get far anyway - all people want to hear about today is how late their flights may be or what will happen on American Idol tonight.
I live in a country filled with stupid sheep.
Don't you guys understand this by now? The leaders in the DLC will not persue crimes committed by the Bush administration for one simple reason. The investigation into said crimes would reveal their involvement. I read a RAW article that linked to a list of lawmakers and their aids that are invested in companies with pentagon contracts. Guess what? half were Dems. But in a way you can't blame them. Weapons are the only manufacturing jobs left in America. And yes, it is true, once our economy 'corrects itself' which it has not yet even begun to do, none of us will give two sh*ts about war crimes. We will be fighting each other for food and water, each commiting war crimes of our own.
pissed off patricia @ 84:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJNyQfAprY
Don't you recognize this as propaganda? Wake up!
It's called "Limited Hangout." Google it.
They admitted what was obvious and about to be widely revealed. They employed their ABC "news talkers" to frame the piece precisely as you saw it. The Administrations Department of Disinformation wrote the script. Five month investigation my ass. This was a three day sales job.
The message: "These were the individuals who attacked us on 9/11, and they had information that we required to prevent an imminent attack. Because our brave officials authorized their torture, invaluable information was obtained that led to further arrests of even more dangerous officials and prevented even more horrendous attacks."
Total bullshit. Limited Hangout.
Wake up sheeple.
Read what this guy has to say and take off the blinders:
http://news.goldseek.com/InternationalForecaster/1207807500.php
Wake Up! Wake Up! Wake Up!
The sad thing is, to many Americans, torture is ... entertainment.
To wit, there's an ad running for tonight's episode of Survivor shows contestants clinging to a steel grate as the tide rises around them, and the announcer solemnly asks, "How long can they hold their breath?"
Our damnation is complete. It's not global warming, it's the fires of hell.
WAKE UP...there will never be a trial...Dems and Repugs are just two names for one Party.
Gretchen @ 94:
I don't fly the flag right now,and haven't for 7 years.
I'd fly the the flag upside down, for a nation in distress.
But I won't fly the flag until boosh is gone and his misdeeds have been corrected.
pissed off patricia @ 54:
Saw same poll...with 543 participants from a local college..NOT very reliable poll.
ysbaddaden @ 26:
spot on
Alice Hussein @ 85:
You may disagree with me as often as you wish, but don't tell me how I should express myself. I am just as "ethnic" as Condi and I meant everything I said. As a black guy I am disgusted that a seemingly intelligent black woman would participate in the "ethnic" murder, torture, and other human rights violations of this Administration. What I said about Condi is the nicest things I could think of her.
Ronnie Reagan declared the government is a bad thing and damned if they haven't destroyed it in his name. I doubt we will ever get back to the great nation we once were after this crime family has been in power. We have thugs running the most powerful office in the world.
Where are the demands for their resignations and trials?
[Deleted. Please don't post comments in all Caps or all Bold lettering. It's yelling. Thank You.Site Monitor.]
It has been long past time that both these "political parties", 1 a determined force driving toward fascism & the other a pathetic band of Neville Chamberman-esque appeasement seekers were abandoned. Well, there is no chance of the Republican party losing it's "base" or political will, it actually stands and fights for a coherent & understandable ideology, that that ideology is pure evil shifts the burden onto the other party, the Democratic Party, whose sole goal has ever been to only in some small way soften the purpose of their political opponent.
It must be unmasked! The Democrat says only: "Please sir, may we set some limit on the extend to which I will be exploited?" the farthest they go is to advocate for "reform". "Reform" cannot make something that should not be right. The times of compromise have past. The Democratic Party must be done away with and a true party of the masses built in it's place.
What are the Dems going to do? Hold pointless investigative committees and then let the issue die?
nony @ 97:
You might have a point. It's their response to the Yoo torture memos. They list a few scapegoats but don't mention Bush's involvement.
Frybread @ 108:
Of course they will do nothing...and in fact, I'd be very, very surprised if the Dems
even do an kind of committee investigative report
Ron:
Precisely. Someone should investigate ABC and make them PROVE that they conducted a five-month long investigation. It's time to out the MSM out once and for all. They are totally complicit in war crimes by their cheer leading to get us in, and affirmative efforts to coverup crimes about which they have known PLENTY.
Media ownership study ordered destroyed
Sept 14, 2006
'Every last piece' destroyed
Adam Candeub, now a law professor at Michigan State University, said senior managers at the agency ordered that "every last piece" of the report be destroyed. "The whole project was just stopped - end of discussion," he said. Candeub was a lawyer in the FCC's Media Bureau at the time the report was written and communicated frequently with its authors, he said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14836500/
"You can't tell any more the difference between what's propaganda and what's news."
FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein
15 August, 2006
"Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a species of information that might properly be called disinformation... Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial information - information that creates the illusion of knowing something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing."
Neil Postman
"Impeachment is off the table."-- Nancy Pelosi
I'm shocked... [sarcasm mine]
So when will this administration be frog-marched out of the White House? Waiting....
I guess we have to depend on the ACLU to demand their resignations and trials.
That is a damn shame.
You have to keep reminding yourself this is not fantasy: that truly dangerous men, such as Perle and Rumsfeld and Cheney, have power. The thread running through their ruminations is the importance of the media: "the prioritized task of bringing on board journalists of repute to accept our position".
"Our position" is code for lying. Certainly, as a journalist, I have never known official lying to be more pervasive than today. We may laugh at the vacuities in Tony Blair's "Iraq dossier" and Jack Straw's inept lie that Iraq has developed a nuclear bomb (which his minions rushed to "explain"). But the more insidious lies, justifying an unprovoked attack on Iraq and linking it to would-be terrorists who are said to lurk in every Tube station, are routinely channeled as news. They are not news; they are black propaganda.
http://www.newstatesman.com/200212160005
SENATOR GRAHAM CALLS FOR ACTION AGAINST AMERICANS WHO DISAGREE WITH BUSH
NAT PARRY, CONSORTIUM NEWS - Sen. Lindsey Graham suggested to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a new target for the administration's domestic operations -- Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy. "The administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue Fifth Column movements," Graham, R-S.C., told Gonzales during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Feb. 6.
"I stand by this President's ability, inherent to being Commander in Chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don't think you need a warrant to do that," Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat. "Senator," a smiling Gonzales responded, "the President already said we'd be happy to listen to your ideas."
http://uncapitalist.com/blog/?itemid=1329
“Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”
Michael Rivera
WANNSEE CONFERENCE
Just office talk,
"Was it difficult for you to send these tens of thousands of people their death?" Eichmann replied, "To tell you the truth, it was easy. Our language made it easy." Asked to explain, Eichmann said, "My fellow officers and I coined our own name for our language. We called it amtssprache -- 'office talk.'" In office talk "you deny responsibility for your actions. So if anybody says, 'Why did you do it?' you say, 'I had to.' 'Why did you have to?' 'Superiors' orders. Company policy. It's the law.'"
Nothing changes, just the actors.
For your bemusement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxH39QlRuhg
It even has a couple of Brokeback Mountain s**t kickers.
nony @ 98:
Please be quiet. Don't wake the sheeple while they're being shorn.
Upside @ 117:
The Germans referred to those killed in the death camps as units, as in, "How many units did you process today?"
The Japanese called there's logs, that they did conscious vivisection on, usually Koreans.
But considering how much saurkraut the Germans ate they had no problems gassing anybody.
Leslie @ 114:
When the French army arrests them?
My sense is that many of my students really don't understand why this is such a big deal. Our moral compass is haywire in these times. 'But they cut off people's heads!' etc.
The dirty truth is that a good number of Americans don't even see what's wrong with this.
Leslie @ 114:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI&feature=related
r @ 2:
Not "period" at all. To heck with impeachment. Send them all to the Hague for war crime trials, and at minimum let them all rot in prison the rest of their lives.
Frybread @ 109:
They might wag a finger or two and/or write stern letters. Oooooooh.
ysbaddaden @ 123:
Oh, I get it: Don't ask, don't tell war criminals!
All of this will be on the back burner after the presidents speech today. The MSM will focus only on the speech.
IT'S NOT NEW THAT THEY KNEW!
Is there anything else we should know?
Alice Hussein @ 85:
And impeachment is of the table.
The media won't make a fuss over Condi's record.
As far as the Republicans view her record, it is squeaky clean.
The only possible way that the Republicans wouldn't endorse her, is if it were proven that she is a transvestite.
pissed off patricia @ 37:
The problem is that there are too many Republicans. They can and will squash this thing before it can go anywhere. Pelosi knows this and the Reid knows this and the many other Democrats know this. It would be a futile act. Buttttttttttt… In about a year there will be many more Democrats in the congress and a Democratic President and even though they will not be able to impeach the assholes they will be able to have them thrown in jail for war crimes and crimes against humanity and crimes against the constitution and being stupid. Just wait. It is going to be fun. Jeez an impeachment will seem like a cakewalk compared to what is coming. It’s difficult but have patience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28political_science%29
A number of techniques which are based on social psychological research are used to generate propaganda. Many of these same techniques can be found under logical fallacies, since propagandists use arguments that, while sometimes convincing, are not necessarily valid. A few examples are: Flag-waving, Glittering generalities, Intentional vagueness, Oversimplification, Rationalization, Red herring, Slogans, Stereotyping, Testimonial, Unstated assumption.
In the West, the term propaganda now overlaps with distinct terms like indoctrination (ideological views established by repetition rather than verification) and mass suggestion (broader strategic methods).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
As the 1983 American Heritage Dictionary noted, fascism is: "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism." (The US dictionary definition has gotten somewhat squishier since then, as all the larger dictionary companies have been bought up by multinational corporations.)
Mussolini was quite straightforward about all this. In a 1923 pamphlet titled "The Doctrine of Fascism" he wrote, "If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government." But not a government of, by, and for We The People - instead, it would be a government of, by, and for the most powerful corporate interests in the nation.
Yea.... looks like a rogues gallery to me... Fit to rot in prison at the least, every one of them... That's about all I got to say about it that doesn't involves screens worth of rants and colorful language....JD
Captain Kangaroo @ 130:
"Dream, dream, dream along with me"....
When the truth of this ENTIRE CONSPIRACY is finally revealed to the American people, they will be pissed off enough to not only throw the bums out, but to boycott the Mainstream Media that enabled it.
CNN Continues to run banner ads all over the web proclaiming that you can walk "IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF BIN LADEN" - a promo for a show that they now run every week.
THIS IS GOVERNMENT SPONSORED PROPAGANDA.
BIN LADEN IS DEAD.
And now this gem from Government Propaganda Network FOX:
Bin Laden's Former Girlfriend Reveals Shocking Details in New Book
Monday, August 21, 2006
By John Gibson
Bin Laden had the hots for Whitney Houston.
That's what we're learning from Kola Boof, the Sudanese poet and novelist whose new book "Diary of a Lost Girl" draws on her experiences as one of bid Laden's girlfriends. Actually she says she was bin Laden's sex slave for a while.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209691,00.html
EARTH TO AMERICA...
IT IS ALL GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA!
THEY STILL WANT YOU TO FEAR A GUY WHO IS DEAD.
For those of you who actually believe that Bin Laden was involved in the 9/11 attacks, the FBI Most Wanted web site disagrees with you, and so does Wikipedia:
"The FBI does not yet have 'hard evidence' linking him to the 9/11 attacks and so as of 2006 he has only been indicted on the embassy murders; he is officially still only a suspect in 'other terrorist attacks throughout the world'."
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
To each of you - go ahead, tell me again about the one where Osama Bin Laden attacked America on 9/11.
Anybody?
Anybody?
Have you actually LOOKED at the person in the fake Bin Laden video?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
The FBI declines to confirm its authenticity.
BECAUSE IT’S FAKE!
BIN LADEN DID NOT ATTACK US ON 9/11.
Bush knows for a fact that Bin Laden is dead.
How does it make you feel that the dumbest MF ever to sit in the Oval Office thinks you're dumber than he is.
We need to take back the airwaves for WE THE PEOPLE.
We need to use the ANTI-TRUST LAWS (you remember laws?) to break up the triad of Propaganda networks that have enabled this military coup, and take the money out of the election process and Nationalize the oil industry and recover all of the ill-gotten gains that these criminals have stolen from our Treasury, and bring the damn troops home and cut off Israel from receiving another dime.
Good thing the Prez can't pardon himself for state crimes. This office could be important in the coming years, if the attorneys had any scruples:
http://www.wacoda.com/
D.A. of Crawford, Texas.
Liberal AND Proud @ 119:
Nony,
I was thinking much the same thing. The whole piece felt pretty light and fluffy. But what really bothered me was that while nearly all of the piece was done in voice over, at about the half-way point they suddenly cut to a real person (don't know the reporter's name) where she delivered the stinger phrase "9/11", nattered on about how top officials feared an imminent attack, and that information about Al Qaeda was scarce. Right there they instilled the fear into the average viewer, laying down the justification for everything else that followed.
I don't think I buy this either.
Doggiebobo @ 133:
As with you (I suspect), It's what gets me to the next day.
Torture: "Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly." That's Ashcroft, the guy who said it was legal -- but also knew they'd be in trouble if people found out. But that was the point of the meetings, which weren't strictly required once they approved the principle of "enhanced interrogation" -- link all the participants in a bond of complicity and silence. Who's gonna talk, if talking means confessing to war crimes? They should be impeached and then sent to the Hague.
President Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, John Ashcroft.
To this list of war criminals should be added: David Addington, John Woo and of course Chimpy Mc-stick-the-firecracker-up-the-frog's-ass-and-light-it-Bush, Chief Executive Psycho Smirking Hand Puppet and Troglodyte Commander 'n Chimp of the Former United States of America.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when
everything the American public believes is false."
-- William Casey, CIA Director (from first staff meeting, 1981)
Captain Kangaroo @ 130:
Yes. I mean, is impeachment legally off the table? Was there some sort of law passed specifically to keep one Speaker Nancy Pelosi from changing her mind or from having her mind changed by her Dem compadres? No. We may be irritated and chomping at the bit to get these people's butts in a sling (what does that phrase really mean, anyway? Hmf!), but justice may just yet prevail.
I, eh, do say "yet". I remain cynical as well. Or is it pessimistic? At any rate, I have hope, but doubt.
Captain Kangaroo @ 130:
The problem is that there are too many Republicans. They can and will squash this thing before it can go anywhere. Pelosi knows this and the Reid knows this and the many other Democrats know this. It would be a futile act. Buttttttttttt… In about a year there will be many more Democrats in the congress and a Democratic President and even though they will not be able to impeach the assholes they will be able to have them thrown in jail for war crimes and crimes against humanity and crimes against the constitution and being stupid. Just wait. It is going to be fun. Jeez an impeachment will seem like a cakewalk compared to what is coming. It’s difficult but have patience.
Apparently you are unaware of the poll that shows that most Americans still want Republicans in office.
Indict and impeach. Now.
ysbaddaden @ 123:
Here I was chilling to something lowbrow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZmFyQ1Nj0Q
And you had to interject with some highbrow social commentary.
It's time to start naming names.
58% of the public relies on General Electric (MSNBC and NBC) News Corp. (Fox), Disney (ABC), AOL-Time Warner (CNN) and Viacom (CBS) for its information. This is far too much power in a democracy for a handful of profit driven companies whose "news" deceives more than it reveals.
The co-conspirators in this crime include all of the heads of the MSM News Networks and all of the talking head shills who know that ACTUAL TRUTH, yet fail to report it out of loyalty to their paycheck vs. loyalty to their country and their own conscience.
Call them out.
Call them by name.
Demand of each an explanation for their participation in this RICO-sized Criminal Conspiracy to overthrow the US government, and in so doing, destroy the US Constitution and all it stands for.
Top 25 Censored Stories of 2006
http://www.projectcensored.org/censored_2006/index.htm
The Top Censored Stories of 2004 to 2005
#1 Bush Administration Moves to Eliminate Open Government
Source:
Common Dreams, September 14, 2004. Press release.
Title: “New Report Details Bush Administration Secrecy”
Author: Karen Lightfoot
http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0914-05.htm
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/cnn-f18.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/may2003/med-m02.shtml
US networks agree to serve as Pentagon propaganda tool in Iraq
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/med-a15.shtml
White House dictates war coverage to a pliant media Office of Global Communications oversees press censorship
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/mar2003/cens-m26.shtml
“The problem is when news and opinion are mashed together,” he said. “It is starting to push out the truth telling, which is undermining our core mission. We have to keep the central goal telling the truth as we see it.”
Although each network executive voiced wariness about cable news’ current direction, none could deny the growing impact of channels such as CNN and FOX News.
http://daily.stanford.edu/tempo?page=content&id=15326&repository=0001_ar...
Fox News chief doubled as political adviser to Bush
The revelation that Fox News Channel Chairman Roger Ailes sent a secret memo offering political advice to George W. Bush after last year’s terrorist attacks illustrates one of the fundamental facts of American political life: the utterly dishonest and politically incestuous relationship between the mass media and the government.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/nov2002/fox-n25.shtml
Fox News Admits Bias!
Its London bureau chief blurts out the political slant that dare not speak its name.
http://www.slate.com/id/2119864
Fox News commentator becomes White House spokesman—a further turn to the right
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/apr2006/snow-a28.shtml
Robert Greenwald: 'Fox News is an Example of What Happens When We Have Extreme Media Control'
The producer/director of the new documentary film "Outfoxed" says that Fox News Channel's "consistent support" of the Republican party is an issue "critical to democracy."
http://www.iwantmedia.com/people/people39.html
[nony, could you please work on giving us shorter posts? Thanks-Sitemonitor]
I wish that the media would stop using the phrase "simulated drowning" to describe waterboarding.
The victim is being drowned. Water is being forced into his lungs causing excruciating pain and suffocation.
There is nothing simulated about it.
I am so angry that I wish that anybody using the phrase "simulated drowning" would be forced to actually experience it.
And let's see how they like to experience simulated dying in simulated agony.
"The United States officially sanctions torture. Up next.. Rosie O'Donnell caught abusing her son? And later, Brittney Spears has a new look, we'll have our on the spot report outside her home in a moment! More after the break."
Yaaawn...
Can'y we impeach these war criminals?
Wasn't this a democracy?
nony @ 131:
Fly the flag upside down and see what happens.
Those uberpatriotic Republicans on your block won't understand what it means and call you a communist.
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