Of course CNN sux. Why would anyone listen to them or take seriously anything they say.

Unless you just don't know any better. So here it is folks.

Don't listen to the TV. Not now not ever. Got it?

...and what kind of name is Kitty Pilgrim?

I read that as 'sexually non-threatening female, that came over on the Mayflower.'
Is she a daughter of the DAR?

A double D - AR.

She spent an hour on Friday on it too. What was interesting to me is they just had 3 talking heads on the situation room say it was not a big deal, and then she came on and said it was the worst thing ever to come out of a politicians mouth.

God save us all, we've done the very crimes we hanged the Nazis and Japanese for at Nuremberg and Tokyo. What's happened to America?

Why do so many Americans find it difficult to deal with obvious truths. Why do they accept lies and incompetence but not accept that many Americans have every cause to be bitter.

The msm for the most part are owned by the same great companies that bring us war.... the president acts on behalf of these fat cats(the have mores) so of course they are staying away from news that implicates about a dozen 'principles' including dubya. Btw, most americans don't want to believe it but they will be charged for war crimes at the Hague, as one important criteria for prosecution is that they, by a bill or law, will not (can't) be charged in their own nation. I can't wait!

Why is it so difficult for Obama supporters to hear that perhaps he did something someone else didn't like? We constantly hear every faux pas of Hillary Clinton and her molehills are made into mountains. Is is so hard for some people to admit that perhaps all people are NOT perfect?

Those Obama was talkling about (the economically disenfranchised that are manipulated into voting against their own best interest based upon wedge isssues (like religion in schools and gun control)) were going to vote for McCain anyway. Oh no Obama said something bad about being a gun-crazy christian!

the munz @ 10:

Why do so many Americans find it difficult to deal with obvious truths. Why do they accept lies and incompetence but not accept that many Americans have every cause to be bitter.

yours is the clearest comment on here. right on. it's amazing that with all of the BS that Bush and cheney and their ilk have thrown at this county that the enabling MSM would focus on this. or maybe it's actually not so surprising. people are so complacent now about iraq and high gas prices, it's a wonder what will actually make the folks really get angry. what will, we should wonder? apparently nothing this adminstration does, or any republican politician, will ever enrage the 'bitter' voters to get active or interested to change things. informed voters such as those who read this site should be more plentiful for then we could enact change with no problem. blasted complicit press.

This the speech of Small town Blue Collar workering people! This is what Obama Meant to say in his speech. He was not talking about Bringing guns to church.

Obama said, "Cling to their Guns..."

Stick= Cling
stick to your guns (British, American & Australian, informal, American, informal)
to refuse to change your ideas although other people try to make you change them. David’s family were against him becoming an actor but he stuck to his guns. Stand by your guns and don’t let them talk you into working full time if you don’t want to.
See also: gun, stick
Cambridge International Dictionary of Idioms © Cambridge University Press 1998

stick to your guns
to refuse to change your beliefs or actions. My parents want me to study accounting, but I’m sticking to my guns and majoring in philosophy.
Etymology: based on the military meaning of stick to your guns (= to continue shooting at an enemy although it puts you in great danger)

Blue Collar workers know just exactly what Obama meant in his speech; They live it every day.
“Workers won on this fight because they stuck to their guns.”

Snobs like Hillery Clinton and John McCain are idiots claiming to know how Blue Collar workers feel or talk; They don’t know shit from Shinola.

Not only are Blue Collar workers Bitter about Corporate America in Control of our government. They are also optimistic a change for the better will arrive soon. Most know they can’t get it from MORE OF THE SAME Clinton or McCain.

What can we do? We are slaves to our corporate overlords, there must be a revolution.

"Pay no attention to the chimp and the robot behind the screen..."

wijg @ 17:

I'm so sick of this shit I can't stand it anymore. Our country is falling apart and all these people (I'm trying real hard to be civil) can talk about is equivalent to talking about someone with a pimple on his ass? The corporate media feels cornered and damn it if they are not going out without a fight. What's going to happen after Obama wins this thing? Are these talking heads going to do a 360 and expect us to buy it? The fourth estate is dead, where in the hell do we go from here?

No, they're not going to do a 360. They're going to attack Obama daily, death by a thousand cuts, to try to wreck his administration so that he has no chance for a second term. The Clintons will willingly help out. Or, impeachment will be in the air. I said "try" though because if Obama gets in, we are going to rally round him. The corporate media will become even more ignored than it is today, and I predict that once the Clintons no longer are a power in the Democratic Party, that's where you'll see the 360. Are you sure you don't mean a 180?

For the life of me, I can't figure out what's wrong with saying that many Americans feel bitter. Hillary claimed that by saying that, Obama was talking down to them. Huh,how so?? I don't see the big deal. She's sounding more like a Republican every day, with the way she spins and distorts. You're damn straight I'm bitter, I'm really bitter about what the Rethugs have done to this country. I'm bitter about the fact that we have an administration that has engaged in all sorts of unethical and illegal behavior with impunity. I'm bitter that the MSM refuses to do it's job and defend this democracy. Seriously, why are they so afraid to confront this administration? What a bunch of greedy cowards. I'm truly beginning to wonder. Does Bush have the "goods" on everyone from all the illegal spying? Are they afraid of retribution? Are they afraid they'll be targeted for assassination, renditioned, or maybe tortured? It's sickening and astonishing. Why do the Democrats act so damn powerless? YOU BETTER BELIEVE I'M BITTER. WE AMERICANS HAVE PLENTY TO BE BITTER ABOUT. No offense, but go screw yourself Senator Clinton, and stop helping the enemy.

the munz @ 10:

Why do so many Americans find it difficult to deal with obvious truths. Why do they accept lies and incompetence but not accept that many Americans have every cause to be bitter.

Patriotic "we're number 1" mentality is the reason. Americans despise criticism of any kind that does not flatter and hold them in highest regards. Other nations do not as a rule have this problem, but Americans have a copyright on it. It's downright scary.

CNN just proved to me why they're worse than Fox News -- they're more subtle and manipulative, and put enough fluff in to run the most successful pillow factory in the world.

Some interpretation of Obama's words trumps confirmation of Bush's treason and war crimes. If we don't fix these problems, the rest of the world will fix them for us.

JoeMarasmus @ 19:

Hey C&Lers. My latest video chronicles the top 10 reasons that I'm supporting Barack Obama, in response to some troll's harrassment. I'd appreciate if you would take a look. Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEFOJwiadmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPJ_rWfOjj8

A great nutshell, Joe, especially the Obama resume parts. I wish you could link your videos every time someone accuses Obama of being an empty suit. Mondo important?

Pilgrim is not the only one who made more of this than is there today. Malveaux was all over this morning endlessly along with the geek following Hillary. Of course Hillary is using this like it was manna from heaven, proving to anyone who doesn't know it already what a real b***h she is. Obama is not saying anything that he has not been saying all throughout the campaign. But Hillary, thanks to the idiot Bill and his rantings bringing up her Bosnia bungle again, is desperate to change the subject and continue her attempt to destroy Obama by any means possible, even getting McCain elected so she can try again in 2012. She is so desperate that she is willing to do or say anything. Hopefully the people in the remaining primary states will see this for what it is, and soundly defeat this Republicrate.

@27 "Seth", @28 "Spicegal" - read Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter With Kansas?" You'll find it elaborates on your thoughts quite well...

Motown @ 38:

@27 "Seth", @28 "Spicegal" - read Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter With Kansas?" You'll find it elaborates on your thoughts quite well...

Thanks for the suggestion. I already have, probably stole some of my thoughts from him :)

@37 Bud, about where in PA?

There is a very interesting discussion on this subject at http://www.skewz.com/link/link_details/5942

I've pasted some of the comment here:

Let’s go through a few points here:

1. The reaction to this whole affair proves the point…again. The “Obama is an elitist” mantra is predictable. Politicians are pulling together a few classic mantras: San Francisco, Elite, Liberal, Obama, Religion-Hating, Anti-Christian, Anti-Rural, Anti-Gun…etc. What do these mantras mean? They are essentially divisive politics. The reaction to Obama’s comments proves his very point, but our media is unable to parse the obvious. Obama’s points are that when people get frustrated they cling to things they can control and they are more susceptible to us-versus-them politics. The them in this case are “San Francisco elitist liberals.” Just as in other parts of the world the United States is pitched as the source of all a third-world country’s woes, in our own country the populations on the coasts are portrayed in the same way. Obama’s point was that unless you have some concrete benefits to communicate to people, these other forces become tempting…like they have for a very long time and in many places. Isn’t economic frustration one of the reasons we gave for why people turn to Islamic terrorism? Now, nothing like that level of emotional weirdness is going on in the heartland, but people look to find answers to their frustrations and they look for the easiest things to blame. That’s not rocket science. Obama was cautioning that the canvassers should be focused on delivering real messages that cut through this temptation. If you listen to the whole speech you can get this. Again, the reaction to his speech essentially makes this argument. The very people who are telling him he’s out of touch with rural PA are the ones that are essentially telling rural PA that they have nothing in common with San Francisco and that “those freaks” are the source of your problems. That’s the subtext. I think it’s fair to question whether people any where would understand how they are being pitted against one another by politicians. Obama’s point is that you guys are the beneficiaries of globalization (the SF freaks that is) and that they should give two sh!ts about what happens in rural PA.

2. The reaction to Obama’s speech on race proved his point in that case as well. “Bitter whites” on the right reacted the way he essentially predicted. “This guy is pandering and making things about race and wants a break for everything that has to do with race. He’s using race as an excuse for making crazy statements. He’s using living during segregation as an excuse for crazy talk.” That was the mantra. Now, if you listen to his speech he essentially says this is where a segment of the population (the one most offended by his speech) would come from. He predicted their reaction quite well. They on the other hand focused on the part of his speech that provided the hint of a “victim” mantra they were so desperately looking for. Ironically, they failed to look in the mirror when it came to him sizing them up pretty darn well.

Based on his statements, I think he understands America quite well.

Keith O. needs a special comment Monday night about McCain and McHillary piling on Obama for telling the truth about the "Washington Bubble People" lying to the American worker for years.

I think the American people are tired of people treating us like children at best and “boo-boo the fool” at worst. Barack knows that people who have lived with this administration can certainly handle the truth. He doesn’t want to be your typical authoritarian Republican daddy (or grandpa) or your typical condescending Democratic “nanny” (I am female, and they called John Kerry feminine too so don’t start) He wants to be a leader, and leaders understand that you need people following you who are excited, involved, willing to pitch in & self aware. He has jumped in front of that parade Thom Hartman often talks about.
I happened upon the Lou Dobbs show last night completely by accident. I was channel surfing and saw something like Obama’s small town swipe or something like that on the bottom of the screen and stopped to watch. The fill in lady was going after Barack and the opinion poll question they asked was about whether what he said showed he was elitist. If you ask me telling people that you know they are hurting when they are hurting and saying we will fix it together isn’t elitist, it’s compassionate and truthful. Being elitist is patting people on the head and saying it’s okay I’ll fix it for you don’t you worry, knowing full well that you have no skin in the game if you don’t create the movement needed to change this country because let’s face it you are a MULT- millionaire. By the way 54% of the people voted no it didn’t show him to be elitist, America isn’t stupid. What struck me most was when, some fool, who undoubtedly makes in the six figures at some think tank to have stupid ideas that he tries to make sound smart, said that Barack doesn’t understand the small town people who just want to hunt, go to church and go to work. I just yelled at the TV “that’s the point you idiot there ISN”T any WORK”! Thank you Barack for standing up WITH us when we need you most and please stay safe!

{{{8 General_Rennenkampf Says}}}: God save us all, we’ve done the very crimes we hanged the Nazis and Japanese for at Nuremberg and Tokyo. What’s happened to America?
==================================

The General said it all. I have nothing further to add.

This is what comes of it. This is what comes of making everything about Bosnia and Reverend Wright and bowling scores and Randi Rhodes and Don Imus and BillO's stupidity and the latest phony-baloney "outrage" of the week.

Ahem.

200 people did in combat today. 200. Civilians, mostly. There are no ambulances in Sadr city. There are no medical supplies.

But, okay, yeah, lets talk about guns and Jesus because fuck, what difference does it make anymore?

I think Rush Limbaugh was dating Daryn Kagan...but who knows, he may have boffed all the CNN whores. Fox has blonde bimbos, CNN has brunette ones...otherwise, no difference. The Fox News Ken dolls are bit more plastic than the males at CNN....but they'll be soon to fall as well. You don't really see good reporters like Christiane Amanpour on CNN too often anymore.

Damn it all. Truth does have a liberal bias and look at those heads exploding. Kewl. All they’ve done is drive another nail in their own coffins. Let them eat ink.

@49 "Tina" - so reactionary and so unthinking. Thanks for perpetuating unfounded fears and myths and not taking the time to read further and understand nuances. We Americans really appreciate it.

Kitty Pilgrim et al are little more than the junior high school popularity club. "Oh, isn't it terrible that hairstyle Sandra wore? She's finished!" "Imagine Mary insulting us as elites! We'll show her, by calling her elite!"

How childish. And pathetic.

Amen Nicole!

For anyone like Schneider, who needs to see more of an explanation of Obama's words, here ya go.

Again, Corporate News Nonsense must die. Why didn't they fucking ask Obama what he meant rather than have a bunch of people sit around and yammer (just like we do on blogs, but the way, what makes them so special they get to be on tv?) about what he might have meant?

Tina @ 49:

Obama's words are important because he is running for president and we want to know what he thinks and what he will do. His words were wrong. He insulted the working class and even worse, he stereotyped them. But don't worry, this story will be buried just like the story of Pastor Wright, the "typical white people" remark, etc. etc. because Obama can do no wrong...

If you take a look at the working class sitting behind Obama in his response to this b.s., you'll find they don't agree.

Gee, electing a folksy, "comfortably dim" president worked out so well last time, didn't it?

Y'know, I can't help thinking... it's only mid-April. Over seven months to go before we even get to vote for the next President (assuming, of course, Diebold will allow it).

Then it's not till January we actually get a new President.

Seven plus more months of this shit. What he said, what she didn't say, what he really meant, on and on and on. I'm so sick of this election now, how I'm going to fight off election fatigue for the next seven odd months I can't imagine. Seven more months of this crap... *shudder*.

Does this lump me into the general population of embittered working-class white folk who simply have given up on giving a shit anymore?

Yeah, this politician spews about hope and unity then insults the PA voters.

Where is the hope in those insults?

Where is the unity?

It was bound to happen when people blindly trust a politician.

Lets get real, this was a self inflicting wound and he is to blame not the media.

Tina @ 49:

Obama's words are important because he is running for president and we want to know what he thinks and what he will do. His words were wrong. He insulted the working class and even worse, he stereotyped them. But don't worry, this story will be buried just like the story of Pastor Wright, the "typical white people" remark, etc. etc. because Obama can do no wrong...

His words were right. Take it from someone who lives in the middle of that "working class" he was speaking about.
Wake up! Listen to all of his words IN CONTEXT, not just the sound bytes taken for the purpose of slamming him. He had the guts to speak the truth to a group of people who needed to be educated about that truth.
I haven't decided who I'm voting for yet (its hard for me to find someone who measures up to Edwards), but I'm leaning towards Obama more with each new attempt to discredit him.

nanderson @ 4:

...and what kind of name is Kitty Pilgrim?

that sounds like the dba name for a cheap escort

the munz @ 10:

Why do so many Americans find it difficult to deal with obvious truths. Why do they accept lies and incompetence but not accept that many Americans have every cause to be bitter.

i guess you don't watch reality tv (and good for you it you don't).
most Americans watching reality tv are dumber than a first grader.

Wake up! I'm bitter, they're bitter, the whole f'ing country is bitter!

I agree with regards to the MSM being complicit in this corporate assault on democracy. I have been saying for years that these media moguls should be tried for treason when the people take back their government - in 2009?

If these so called journalists were covering an actual horse race, I think it would go something like this:

A report would appear a day or so before the race noting that someone people generally dislike (because in earlier years the media had vilified him over something superficial) had entered an unknown horse. There'd be a silly story about the owner's audacity, and how the horse had little chance of winning anything, and that anyone betting on the unknown will rightly lose her money. The story would be narrated with condescending glee by someone who has mastered nothing but television journalism's necessary vocal inflections.

On the day of the race, there would be pre-race interviews with all the folks people generally do like (because the media places them on pedestals despite their companies' clear violations of labor laws, workers' comp laws, etc.) who have reliable and beloved standby horses ready for yet another breathtaking event.

The race would begin, and all would be going like a normal horse race until two unusual things begin to transpire. First, the unknown horse owned by Mr. Bad Guy would begin to take the lead with such speed that a world-record-breaking time seemed within reach. Second, one of the beloved standbys legs would appear to jerk awkwardly upon striking a divot.

The unknown's overwhelming lead would be noted briefly, and then ignored, while spectacular speculation about the future of the beloved standby's career would spread like wild fire. Talking head after talking head would interview expert after expert about whether the standby's leg might be broken, whether the horse would have to be put down, and whether the divot was dug up by that pesky unknown horse after it took its suspiciously uncatchable lead! Viewers would be overwhelmed by all the trivia spoken and printed on their television screens about the nature of divots, leg-breaks, the last time in history a beloved horse's leg had tragically broken, and it all would be vomited onto the newscasts before the race were over, and entirely overlooking the fact that beloved horse was not only still running, but maintaining its usual 2nd- or 3rd-place pace.

By the end of the race, the unknown horse will have won, but because it will have missed the world record by a heartbeat, its feat will go unnoticed but for continued suspicions about whether that Mr. Bad Guy owner might have cheated, suspicions that stunt what could have been a promising racing career. Actual experts will try to explain post hoc that the beloved horse's perceived leg jerk was not alarming to anyone who knew anything about horses in the first place, but the speculation will already have ruined that horse's career as future race events refuse to run it for fear that the horse's instability could be a danger to itself or other horses, even though it came in third. The second place horse, owned by a renowned CEO who is currently maintaining a child-labor-based sweatshop in Asia, will go on to win riches.

Anyone getting sick and tired of this PTB crap being spoon-fed to us by the PTB? How stupid do they think Americans are, to think that they would fall for this "elite" spin?

Nicole Belle @ 77:

getalife @ 72:

Yeah, this politician spews about hope and unity then insults the PA voters.

Where is the hope in those insults?

Where is the unity?

It was bound to happen when people blindly trust a politician.

Lets get real, this was a self inflicting wound and he is to blame not the media.

I'm not picking on you, getalife, but I'm curious, why do you think he was insulting the PA voters? Is it because the media said he was?

I heard the thing in its entirety--not an easy thing to do, since Fowler's tape is horribly distorted--and what I heard is empathy, not insults. He recognizes the antipathy and disaffection that many voters are feeling...the promises not fulfilled by other politicians and the anger that manifests itself in distrust of others.

Certainly, you are not accusing him of saying ALL voters feel this way, because that's a ridiculous over-generalization and a rather immature strawman. But can you not acknowledge the truth of what he said?

I don't often disagree with you Nicole but in this case I think Obama did make an unfortunate generalization about small town voters which is why he is making corrective statements now. In the overall scheme of things this is as venal a sin as sin gets but somehow I don't think the MSM will let this minor slip go unamplified.

nochickenhawk @ 79:

Hi Hillary,

I was thinking about voting for you. I have no health insurance, my real income has declined over the Clinton/Bush administrations, my job has been off-shored to China India Indonesia....It is just wonderful paying $4.00/gallon for gas and the price of food keeps going through the roof. But, I'm not bitter because I have my gun and my bible even though my teeth hurt and I can't get them fixed because I can't afford to. So you double talking phoney I'm voting for Obama because he does something you are incapable of doing--he tells the truth.

That is why corporate Hillary is losing.

These self-absorbed fucktards have no clue how horrible things in this country have become for most people. Meanwhile, these corporate horror's make more money in a couple of month's than most people make in a lifetime.

They know their shit is running thin these days, they are just trying to deflect reality for one more election cycle.

Tina @ 49:

Obama's words are important because he is running for president and we want to know what he thinks and what he will do. His words were wrong. He insulted the working class and even worse, he stereotyped them. But don't worry, this story will be buried just like the story of Pastor Wright, the "typical white people" remark, etc. etc. because Obama can do no wrong...

You sound an aweful lot like another poster on here that despises men and can't grasp why this lying woman isn't walking away with the nomination. It's gotta be that there sexism thingy playin' itself out. Obama can do no wrong? If it wasn't for the media and that famous last name, one of these candidates would have been out weeks ago, and I'll give you a hint...it's a she.

You people are not thinking about reality. Look who got elected in the last two elections and why: George Bush BECAUSE he's a good ole' boy like the dominant culture of this country: lovin' God 'n guns.

This is the end of Obama's campaign. He implied that religion, love of guns, anger at illegal immigrants and unfair trade are not meaningful cultural elements of people's live's, but merely crutches for the frustrated with life. He just alienated a HUGE portion of the electorate, and a drop of pride outweighs a gallon of reason in elections in this real world. Not fair, but true.

I'm broken hearted. But Obama will not recover from this. Good luck with the campaigning under sniper fire, Hillary.

-Scott

....and is Obama so fragile that he cannot take any kind of criticism. Is no one allowed to mess with the annointed one? What's good for the goose, is good for the gander and vice versa. No more free passes for Obama.

john @ 93:

YEah. WTF is going on. All the media news outlets are turning this into an issue for Obama. It's being blown completely out of proportion like the Wright Issue. And this is even worse because as an American I AM bitter about what is going on in the economy and the middle class. And from what I understand, no blue collar person should be offended by this description because we are not pansies who would cry over being called bitter. Damn it we've been through worse to be offended by this. IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. And the media is jumping all over this. WHY? i know its a slow news week but lets not butcher the guy twice over BS. There are real issues going on.

Gee, now Obama knows how Sen. Clinton feels.

I don't watch CNN anymore!!!

john @ 93:

. . . i know its a slow news week but lets not butcher the guy twice over BS. There are real issues going on.

Part of Nicole Belle's point was that this is NOT A SLOW NEWS WEEK.

If we were living on the proper side of the looking glass, the news of the entire Bush Administration's signing off on torture would be HUGE FUCKING NEWS.

nochickenhawk @ 79:

Hi Hillary,

I was thinking about voting for you. I have no health insurance, my real income has declined over the Clinton/Bush administrations, my job has been off-shored to China India Indonesia....It is just wonderful paying $4.00/gallon for gas and the price of food keeps going through the roof. But, I'm not bitter because I have my gun and my bible even though my teeth hurt and I can't get them fixed because I can't afford to. So you double talking phoney I'm voting for Obama because he does something you are incapable of doing--he tells the truth.

Now you are bitter....and blaming Hillary Clinton....how novel, and typical. Another stab at getting the glare of Obama perhaps?

Look, the MSM needs a cat fight.

If the (D) nomination is mathematically outta Clinton's reach, what the 'F' are they going to do between now and November ....? Investigative Journalism?

Dou Lobbs is Indignation goin' around looking for some shit to 'scoop' ... Without it, he is Indignation without content, a rather foolish caricature. Without it, he is 'independent' of purpose, unable to swill and then belch, for our clucking. Really, do anyone other than Latinos watch this guy for comedy?

Snerd

Nicole@95 I have not been able to find a link to the whole speech. If you would post that it would be helpful. I've been trying to find a link to a very on point quote by Harry Truman. He was speaking about rural support for Republicans when Republican policies were devastating those communities and the quote goes something like this: How many times do you have to get hit over the head before you look over your shoulder to see who is doing the hitting. I suspect I know exactly what Obama was getting at but his phrasing was uncharacteristically inapt. I do not think one whit less of the man and he appears to be handling the situation appropriately.

Peter G @ 88:

Nicole Belle @ 77:

getalife @ 72:

Yeah, this politician spews about hope and unity then insults the PA voters.

Where is the hope in those insults?

Where is the unity?

It was bound to happen when people blindly trust a politician.

Lets get real, this was a self inflicting wound and he is to blame not the media.

I'm not picking on you, getalife, but I'm curious, why do you think he was insulting the PA voters? Is it because the media said he was?

I heard the thing in its entirety--not an easy thing to do, since Fowler's tape is horribly distorted--and what I heard is empathy, not insults. He recognizes the antipathy and disaffection that many voters are feeling...the promises not fulfilled by other politicians and the anger that manifests itself in distrust of others.

Certainly, you are not accusing him of saying ALL voters feel this way, because that's a ridiculous over-generalization and a rather immature strawman. But can you not acknowledge the truth of what he said?

I don't often disagree with you Nicole but in this case I think Obama did make an unfortunate generalization about small town voters which is why he is making corrective statements now. In the overall scheme of things this is as venal a sin as sin gets but somehow I don't think the MSM will let this minor slip go unamplified.

It might seem like a venal sin at the moment, PeteG., but as it's been said here, context is important. And this statement along with questions it raises in regard to the Rev. Wright revelations and controversial statements made by Obama's wife that sounded equally as elitist- all put together add up to what could easily considered a cardinal sin.

This Politico article sums up many of those reasons and I think answers some of Nicole's questions to getalife about how his comments could be considered insulting:

12 reasons 'bitter' is bad for Obama

In particular-
3. Some people actually use guns to hunt — not to compensate for a salary that’s less than a U.S. senator’s
4. Some people cling to religion not because they are bitter but because they believe it, and because faith in God gives them purpose and comfort.
5. Some hard-working Americans find it insulting when rich elites explain away things dear to their hearts as desperation. It would be like a white politician telling blacks they cling to charismatic churches to compensate for their plight. And it vindicates centrist Democrats who have been arguing for a decade that their party has allowed itself to look culturally out of touch with the American mainstream.

Here's another thing Obama said in San Francisco:

"Here’s how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it. And when it’s delivered by — it’s true that when it’s delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism.

I think it's not too hard to understand how those same workers that he was talking about before might be slightly insulted at being called skeptical of concept simply because they were being uttered by a black man with a funny name.

dennis@110 Oh I know only too well how you and the other right wingers will spin this but it won't make any of it true. So business as usual for your gang.

1) It is a shame so much time and energy is being spent on deconstructing Obama's speeches instead of what this post's title points out - Bush admitting that he committed a war crime getting almost no reaction at all.

2) It would also be of interest to see a poll, maybe, on just how many working-class people actually do feel 'insulted at being called skeptical of concept simply because they were being uttered by a black man with a funny name', rather than a sense of relief that finally someone, even a black man with a funny name, has pointed out just how bitter and disenfranchised they have a right to feel.

Peter G @ 108:

Nicole@95 I have not been able to find a link to the whole speech. If you would post that it would be helpful. I've been trying to find a link to a very on point quote by Harry Truman. He was speaking about rural support for Republicans when Republican policies were devastating those communities and the quote goes something like this: How many times do you have to get hit over the head before you look over your shoulder to see who is doing the hitting. I suspect I know exactly what Obama was getting at but his phrasing was uncharacteristically inapt. I do not think one whit less of the man and he appears to be handling the situation appropriately.

Mayhill Fowler of HuffPo recorded it

So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

Dearest, darling Dennis, I know you are not making the logical fallacy that Obama was speaking of ALL rural Pennsylvanians. Yes, what he said is not true for ALL, but surely you can concede that it is true for some. I hate intellectually dishonest binary thinking of either he meant everyone or he's completely wrong.

What a hatchet job CNN did on Obama. That's very Republican of them, and for it they shall receive extra barbecue sauce.

Say, maybe liberals should start sending the MSM Barbecue Buddies little gifts of barbecue sauce when they do a really good job for McCain and the GOP.

America still has a sense of humor, but i promise you it is bitter to the core.

If you're not bitter, then you haven't been paying attention.

Coffee and torture are as American as apple pie.

I am fully prepared to place my confidence in the hands of true Americans and trust to their fundamental decency and good sense to reject foreign agents and protect our way of life from the likes of Mohammed Atta and Obama Bin Laden. We know it will require sacrifices but Americans are prepared to suspend the uncontrolled waste and abuse of congressional democratic tax and spend types and in the fullness of time I fully expect we will succeed in the preventing of this odd dark skinned person from overcoming our defences and destroying our way of life.

Thanks Nicole.

Thanks for the link Karen.

Richard Chainy @ 124:

Coffee and torture are as American as apple pie.

I am fully prepared to place my confidence in the hands of true Americans and trust to their fundamental decency and good sense to reject foreign agents and protect our way of life from the likes of Mohammed Atta and Obama Bin Laden. We know it will require sacrifices but Americans are prepared to suspend the uncontrolled waste and abuse of congressional democratic tax and spend types and in the fullness of time I fully expect we will succeed in the preventing of this odd dark skinned person from overcoming our defences and destroying our way of life.

And are you okay with them torturing Maher Arar? He was guilty of being Muslim, not of being a terrorist. Besides, Bush is not going after Bin Laden. That's why they disbanded the special unit searching for him. We're too busy torturing people who cannot give us actionable intelligence because TORTURE DOES NOT WORK, except to gratify the bloodlust of your namesake.

nonny mouse @ 127:

Nicky B - interesting poll. Anyone other than CNN's self-examination-of-navel hacks running something a bit more, well, less skewed?

Are there any independent polling companies left in America anymore?

And dennis... you voted for Obama?? Will wonders never cease. ;-)

I suspect it's a little too early to get any kind of actual polling on this. You don't usually see a 24 hour turnaround on a meaningful poll. And given how the media has framed this, I would be instantly suspicious of the way they ask the questions.

Motown @ 1:

Oh yeah, "Kitty Pilgrim" and her pearls are a voice of the Yuengling drinking working class PA folks indeed!

Senator Obama spoke the truth and the truth hurts to those who have been dancing around it. Come here to Southeastern Michigan - 'bitter' is not a bad word, it is a reality.

People need inspiration and new ideas - to keep promising them jobs and other benefits that are never going to return in the same force is the lie, not Obama's stating it like it is. Heck, even McCain said that when he was here for the primary (and Romney clobbered him by promising a return to the la-la land, by the way). Let's talk about retraining, regrouping and moving forward instead.

Infrastructure, environment, superior healthcare - all of these can put countless people back to work if they are shown the way and the incentives are properly in place.

So tired of the feeding of illusions here in Motown (slowtown, for now) and elsewhere. We need progressive solutions.

How is this any different than former Congresswoman Ferraro speaking the truth? Can't have it both ways guys, no matter how much you revere the sainted Senator Obama.

Nicole@116

Not sure I follow your thinking but I don't think I made the claim he was talking about ALL rural Pennsylvanians, but yeah, I'll concede he wasn't, or that there aren't quite a few who would agree with what he said.

I lived in PA for 7 years and travelled extensively throughout the state. I covered small banks in small towns all over the whole state. I'm not an expert, but my guess is a large majority of them will take these statements with a grain of salt but by and large will be put off by them. I don't see this helping him in any way. The fact that he said them in your neck of the woods only adds insult to injury, the ones who felt injured anyway.

Not to pick nits, but I wish you had given David Belavia the same benefit of the doubt earlier this week. It was a busy news week and all. Three threads on it. No one said one positive word for him or even hinted that maybe he might've been taken out of context or misinterpreted.

dennis @ 136:

Nicole@116

Not sure I follow your thinking but I don't think I made the claim he was talking about ALL rural Pennsylvanians, but yeah, I'll concede he wasn't, or that there aren't quite a few who would agree with what he said.

I lived in PA for 7 years and travelled extensively throughout the state. I covered small banks in small towns all over the whole state. I'm not an expert, but my guess is a large majority of them will take these statements with a grain of salt but by and large will be put off by them. I don't see this helping him in any way. The fact that he said them in your neck of the woods only adds insult to injury, the ones who felt injured anyway.

Not to pick nits, but I wish you had given David Belavia the same benefit of the doubt earlier this week. It was a busy news week and all. Three threads on it. No one said one positive word for him or even hinted that maybe he might've been taken out of context or misinterpreted.

The only one's who felt injured are the one's who were told what he said by people who are afraid he will win.

Not quite on the topic, but... because my laptop is old, and slow, and crap, I'm finding myself perusing my host's bookshelves for something to read while my machine takes its time refreshing, crashing, rebooting, whichever it's in the mood for at the time.

Found this great quote today: 'Can America make it? A huge trade imbalance, a sliding currency, falling real wages and a dismal productivity record. A decade ago, these were the hallmarks of a struggling British economy. Today they characterize an American economy which is struggling... against fierce competition from the Far East.'

Wanna venture a guess when it was written? Ah, c'mon. Take a guess...

Financial Times, London
May 9, 1987

We've been bitter a long, long time.

dennis @ 136:

Nicole@116

I don't see this helping him in any way. The fact that he said them in your neck of the woods only adds insult to injury, the ones who felt injured anyway.

Not to pick nits, but I wish you had given David Belavia the same benefit of the doubt earlier this week. It was a busy news week and all. Three threads on it. No one said one positive word for him or even hinted that maybe he might've been taken out of context or misinterpreted.

First, that San Francisco liberal crap is beneath you. How many more stereotypes are we going to push? C'mon, if you spend any time in SF, you'd know that we're not all a bunch of treehuggers. SF is a surprisingly provincial town, with a whole society class that includes George Schultz and his socialite wife, who are on everyone's "must have" invitation list.

And Dennis, I said that in all honesty I couldn't figure out Bellavia's statement. It was clearly intended as a negative, but I couldn't understand how. I'm not sure what other benefit of the doubt I should have allowed him. I never called him a racist. I said I guessed it was a racial comment of some sort, but that it didn't make sense.

It wasn't just CNN ignoring this story. Every media outlet dissed it - preferring to focus on what Senator's Obama or Clinton said or did. Hell - here in the south, it's all about the Master's Tournament, and who's ahead. I mentioned this to a friend, assuming she had at least heard that Bush and his cabal admitted to discussing specific torture techniques - but she hadn't. It was news to her. NO ONE is covering this. I hope it will eventually pick up speed - but I doubt it. The Kitty Pilgrim's of the MSM would rather harp on Hillary or fawn over McCain.

I'm disgusted. Just the thought of those vampires sitting around perhaps viewing videos of tortured prisoners makes me sick. Imagine what that was like. It boggles the mind. It's like they all got off on it. I doubt Congress will ever bring Bush, Cheney and the rest to task for their criminal actions - but it's possible the international court will. I hope the entire upper tier of the Bush Administration is indicted for war crimes. They'd be stuck here in the U. S for the rest of their natural lives if that happened. The minute one of 'em set foot in an extraditable country they'd find their asses hauled off to The Hague for trial - and good riddance to the lot!

Well, Bush has been torturing words for years, so they are probably used to it by now. ;)

The Fat Lady Sings @ 144:

It wasn't just CNN ignoring this story. Every media outlet dissed it - preferring to focus on what Senator's Obama or Clinton said or did. Hell - here in the south, it's all about the Master's Tournament, and who's ahead. I mentioned this to a friend, assuming she had at least heard that Bush and his cabal admitted to discussing specific torture techniques - but she hadn't. It was news to her. NO ONE is covering this. I hope it will eventually pick up speed - but I doubt it. The Kitty Pilgrim's of the MSM would rather harp on Hillary or fawn over McCain.

I'm disgusted. Just the thought of those vampires sitting around perhaps viewing videos of tortured prisoners makes me sick. Imagine what that was like. It boggles the mind. It's like they all got off on it. I doubt Congress will ever bring Bush, Cheney and the rest to task for their criminal actions - but it's possible the international court will. I hope the entire upper tier of the Bush Administration is indicted for war crimes. They'd be stuck here in the U. S for the rest of their natural lives if that happened. The minute one of 'em set foot in an extraditable country they'd find their asses hauled off to The Hague for trial - and good riddance to the lot!

Can you say Paraguay?

getalife @ 3:

Somewhere, Jack Cafferty is getting hammered.

Spin in it anyway you want but disrespecting voters to a crowd of large donors in San Francisco is a huge mistake.

It changed the game.

"Axelrod: Obama Regrets But Won't Apologize For His Remarks."

Another huge mistake and this story will continue. Probably why they were screaming for Clinton drop out, voters seeing the real Obama.

It will be Obama that drops out.

Torturegate is just starting and it will get media attention with hearings.

This is a big thing to mceconomy, hillary and people like you who hang on to Obama's words as if your life depended on it.

You want to go furthering this chimpy's disaster.
hillary is filthy rich and so is mccindy. This is catty, petty, and bullshit.

Please find something of substance before you make a total fool of yourself.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

You don't know Obama.