Is the FISA fight over?
Much to everyone’s surprise, House Democrats simply wouldn’t budge when the Bush administration demanded that Congress pass a permanent “Protect America Act” — with retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies. The law expired, the president threw a fit, and lawmakers broke for a two-week spring recess.
Despite claims that congressional inaction was responsible for increased threats against Americans, and despite demands that the president would never accept a compromise on surveillance power and telecom immunity, the White House indicated recently that the Bush gang might be willing to chat with Democratic leaders after all.
Just a few days ago, The Hill reported that House Republicans, who had been shouting that the sky was falling as a result of the PAA’s expiration, have apparently decided to accept the status quo and turn their attention elsewhere.
House Republicans are poised to shift their focus from national security to the economy, hoping to rally opposition to what they claim are Democratic plans to raise taxes amid the economic downturn.
Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) is expected to announce Thursday that the House GOP floor emphasis will transition away from passing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and earmark reform to “stop the tax hike.”
Given this, it’s worth pausing to wonder if House Dems just won the FISA/immunity fight. Glenn Greenwald makes the case that Republicans failed on this one.
What are the chances that the Democrats figure out how to turn this into the powerful campaign ad it should be? I'm not hopeful, but this really should be easy.
One step back, two steps forward. Eventually, the corporations/state will get what they want.
They got the Patriot Act didn't they?
They got the bailouts didn't they
They got the Military Commissions Act didn't they?
They got continued war funding didn't they?
One little delay isn't going to stop them.
I think that the republican ideology is failed along with everything else they have tried to do.
A true group of morons.
I'm not going to relax. I don't trust the repubs one bit and fear they will attach something about telecom immunity to some other bill that the dems can't afford to vote against.
The security sky isn't falling, the financial rug is being yanked out from under us. Why should terrorist bother with us when our country is imploding?
If theres a way to cave, the dems will find it.
FISA fight over... Logic and common sense prevail...
A preview to the rebirth of the rule of law, democracy and a great nation? Hope and decency... such a crisp, clear sound.
The only "tax-hike" are demands that the uber-wealthy pay their fair share instead of bleeding everyone else white.
On Bill Moyer's Journal they showed how wealthy land owners built homes on what was once productive farmland, but the land owners aren't farmers. Then they regularly apply for benefits under a law that was supposed to help farmers who didn't reach that years yield.
Meanwhile in Alabama they actually pay food taxes, which percentage wise doesn't faze the wealthy, who benefit from programs these taxes pay for, but amidst food cost increases are increasingly distressing the working poor.
Now you are going to be hearing about how those horrible, awful Democrats want to raise your taxes...if you make over 250k a year. Of course, they forget to mention that 95% of you don't make that much money, but it won't matter the Democrats can never seem to get out of the simplistic framing Republicans use.
Don't relax for one minute. The most important issue for them is the protection of the telecoms. The issue won't go away.
No one should believe it's over. This just means they're going to try some kind of end run. Time for some payoffs, some threats and some back room deals. They'll be back.
Well, everything the Repugs touch turns to shite.
Yes, blame the dems for returning taxes to the 5% elites but not for the deficits that the original tax cut on that 5% created in the first place.
That'll work Boehner, stay the course, third times a charm, what they don't know wont hurt 'em, Joe Six-Pack, Jesus caucus' with the Repugs, your either with us or against us, global warming is caused by trees, nuclear missiles can be recalled........etc......etc......
Yes by all means Congressman Boehner..........please stay the course!
The repubs know talking about raising taxes in a time when much of America is financially hurting strikes a sharper chord than talking about security bs. I agree with MargeAggedon, they will be back and they will sneak in.
I'm betting the administration is just plowing ahead with business as usual to hell with what Congress says. Really, they so brazenly flaunt the law why should it matter to them if Congress passes FISA reform or not? Mr. Unitary Executive will just claim he has the power to give immunity.
I think it's more a matter of FISA no longer being relevant. Bush is planning on using satellite surveillance on Americans now and since the NSA wiretapping nonsense is all classified nobody can prove they're being tapped. He doesn't need authorization really, all he needs to do is prevent any leaking of more material. At this point the only thing Congress could really do to him short of impeachment ( which they don't have the balls to do ) would be to refuse to fund the program. But since it's classified it'd be rolled up into a big ball with other classified programs which Congress doesn't get to know that they're funding.
The problem with all this is Bush just admitted that his cabinet sat around and debated torture and he approved of it. So, he's come right out and admitted that he's violated federal law and committed war crimes. Yet he's still in office.
By time Congress makes any real inroads he'll already be gone and the surveillance society will be endemic and any blame for it will fall to either the Democratic President ( who won't get rid of the program ) or John McCain who won't get rid of it either.
raincntry @ 13:
you are correct on this one. they dont give two boatloads of bananas for the law. pure illegality is all that they know.
expat @ 15:
The Ex Post Facto Presidency
Don't turn your back on the bastards, not even for one second. And I'm not only speaking about Republicans or the Administration. Jello Jay may still have a card up his sleeve. I think they're merely waiting for the Public to turn their heads for just a second and sneak it through as an attachment to something else, that we wouldn't expect.
Stay vigilant.
ha. after posting this i checked my local news.
location of the rnc 08... :(
And nary a word from the main stream media about the Repub's loss. But, O my god, Obama created a political firestorm with his "elitist words" according to a msm headline.
Common, every day folk are not really paying attention. I asked quite a few of them. There is no "political firestorm!"
Its a creation of the media. Its their reaction and they want everyone to feel and believe it. Its not going to happen unless we let it. If we ignore it, everyone else will. Hell, they really are not paying attention. Those in the msm just like to think they are important. They are just dust on the television screen. I used my windex this weekend!
No victory here. Rethugs know that Joe Six-pack has difficulty with four-letter acronyms (FISA), but understands three-letter words and abbreviations (Dem, tax, bad). They will milk this for all its worth in TV ads, knowing the corporate media will make stories out of this and FISA will completely fade from the tube. Once out of sight, the REAL backroom deals ("See, the public doesn't care about this stuff anymore...") will give the telecoms (and BushCo) what they want, QUIETLY.
When they meet, Dick will play back recordings of their grandchildren on their cell phones. Then they'll cave.
Are the repugs taking the fight elsewhere? Well in Maine the Same Sex Marriage Brouhaha is starting up again and they hope to have a referendum on the ballot. So yeah, the repugs are gettting their surrogates riled up and are beating the underbrush now to find the Religious Right buttons! They may express revulsion at Rev Phelps, but they use his tactics and divining rods to find their base!
E in MD @ 14:
Notice we're not hearing one word on tv about bush's torture admission, buy we are hearing 24/7 about what Senator Obama said about people be "bitter". They are playing what Obama said as the worst thing to ever be uttered by an American, while the president admits not only did our country torture human beings but he approved of what was done. The media helped get us into this stinking invasion and now they won't take the responsibility of reporting what was done. Instead they play politics with words.
pissed off patricia @ 23:
I had to make a correction in my comment.
jnratliff @ 3:
...a ship of fools...
...a confederacy of dunces...
...a nation of rejects...
...a conspiracy of idiots.
raincntry @ 13:
This is another possibility I considered. shrub co. doesn't give a damn about laws or the constitution so why should they care if the senate won't give them immunity? He'll just give it to them himself.
Stay on this America! We haven't won anything yet. The rule of law is still in the back of a dark alley with a gang of fearmongers all around her. The only difference now is it seems they've posted a lookout. Catch them in the act; keep the pressure on. This COULD turn out to be one of the best net root activism stories of this administration. Thank you Steve, and Glenn, and John.
pissed off patricia @ 24:
I know it's amazing isn't it? They announce that the wh not only knew about it they ordered it all and don't care about rule of law, constitutionality or human decency but the biggest thing on the news is "Be afraid of the scary elitist dem who wants to raise your taxes booooooooo!"
Yeah there's no bias there at all.
Why does no one care that the government is torturing foreign citizens in secret prisons?
MargeAggedon @ 10:
I think we should not be surprised if there is another false flag attack.
Isn't this where they have been wanting to go all along? They perceive Iran to be Israel's biggest threat and the neocons have been pushing for this for ages. Iraq was just a warm up. Why do you think Lieberman has stuck as close to McCain as he has? This will be done with the "best interests" of Israel as the cornerstone.
my thoughts?
never EVER count the repugs down... there is always something underhanded in the making... always...
pissed off patricia @ 4:
Yep.
Ron @ 29:
Absolutely.
Yet another possibility I'm sure they're not counting out is just waiting until the 'big show' in November and taking it all in one go. False flag attack, fake evidence, blame Iran, steal election, start another war, martial law. Problems solved for king dick and his butt puppet shrub. It certainly lies within abilities.
Ive said it before. If i were living in USA ? I wouldn't take an optimistic breath till they were clearly gone , be it in jail or on bail. I just cant imagine anything they wouldn't do to try and cover their asses for a mountain of domestic and war crimes. I'm not so sure any accountability is forthcoming anyways. Avoiding national embarrassment and exposure of USA crimes will trump any sense of moral duty at the end of the day. I don't see any "let the chips fall where they may " attitude towards it.
The goverment has proven time and time again they think they are 'above the law'. Well spying domestically without a warrant is a crime, and one they have already admitted to.
Impeach, Indict, Convict!
Looking for the back door now...
No doubt, it isn't over by a long shot.
I would be a lot happier if this victory was repeated on everything else the Dems have caved in and stop succumbing to a minority group of losers who have ruined this country.
Why aren't liberals mad about taxes? Our taxes go to pay for THEIR war. They go to pay the huge interest on debts run up by THEIR irresponsible Presidents (Reagan, W.). Our tax dollars are stolen by THEIR crony corporations (Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater). Our taxes are squandered in huge subsidies to THEIR friends in Big Oil and Big Auto. Nothing is done to prevent tax dollars of working class Americans from being sent to Iraq and then transferred straight into the Swiss bank accounts of the Iraqi politicians THEY say we can trust to rebuild their country. We have to compensate for the huge tax cuts given to THEIR elitist ultra-rich pals.
What do we get in return for the money we pay in taxes? Nothing.
If the liberals in this country would just unite and threaten not to file some year, we could put the fear of God in lying bastards like Boehner and McConnell.
MargeAggedon @ 10:
Agreed. When has the Bush Administration ever behaved in a reasonable fashion?
Even a signing statement comment would be enough to gum up the works as far as a lawsuit. Otherwise, it'll be given a re-tread and slipped into some other piece of legislation, like an appropriations bill.
Perhaps boner should try his tears of a clown bit again,sniffsniff, owl-kader,sniff might hit us again,sob,sniff. and now those damn hippie libs are going to,sniff,sob, raise our,sniff,taxs,boooohoooohoooo. somebody slap that little prick!
I'd give the GOP a failing grade on everything, except the crafty ba$tards have taken alot of loot for themselves. I truly hope the republicans are ground into the dust in November elections...
Eternal vigilance folks.. These asses never quit scheming, we can't afford to let our guard down for even a moment... Fisa won by the dems?.... I've read and agree with other posters here... This ain't over. It's a lull, a reassessing of strategy. Bushco apparently have too much invested in this scam. They will be back and much as has been indicated, they will work it so on the one hand, the public attention is focussed on something else, while on the other hand, they massage the backroom deal, blackmail, buyout of opposition and all the rest of it (pick your favorite strategy), so that telcom immunity turns up on some other bill dems are heavily invested in... These criminals knows how to work the monster system they have created and they will not stop working towards whatever ends they are after... Eternal vigilance is our task until they are completely and totally out of power.... Then eternal vililance of what replaces them... be it dem or republican. A healthy and functional democracy demands no less...............JD
Jack Damage @ 42:
You are right on. Repugs are feeling pretty good right now. The MSM is helping to push the repugs line for them, Dems are tearing themselves up, with help from the msm and McCain is waiting in the wings. After just seeing the posts here on C&L over Obamas flap, if I was a repug, I'd have to say, things are looking up.
What a bunch of whiners!
Bush just admitted he and his crew are war criminals and yer all depressed.
This is only the beginning of the pushback agains 40 years of scumbag 'conservative' fascism and those members of the Fascistii will pay.
One way or another.
A.Citizen @ 44:
When the media is more concerned over Obama drinking orange juice than coffee, and airtime is still given to idiots like Bill Kristol, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and others, it's not 'just the beginning' with the dawn of a bright new day just ahead.
This is the part in the zombie flick where the heroes start to think they're gonna survive till dawn, and then the undead legions come back in redoubled numbers.
Wait, so if the Dems actually show a little bit of spine they might actually get something accomplished? Damn, what a concept.
YourMom @ 36:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN-_up5dSW0
When I was a kid we thought it was about anal sex.
I'm not holding out hope the spine will last, but it's a good sign.
Keep a spine and save the constitution (And freedoms!)
Thanks for the update on the FISA debate. I'd been wondering what happened and could not find any info. I hope you are right that this nightmare is over.
Stupid Git @ 49:
It's not over. We've got to expect the next effort by this administration and the telecoms to minimize the impact of this story to the average American chimp. They'll try to spin it down after they think we've all forgotten about it. They'll try, and they might win, because the American people forget about EVERYTHING. The impact of this story is huge: it's about spying, the rule of law and illegal behavior by businesses at the behest of the latest junta. It's about legal precedent. Stay on the watchtower, stick to yer guns.
"Why aren’t liberals mad about taxes?"
Liberals arent mad about taxes, they're mad about waste. Listening to conservatives bitch about paying taxes reminds me a lot of the whining that my kids make when told to clean up the living room. Truth is, those 1-percenters gets far more for their tax dollar than any welfare mom ever does. Let's look back to the "golden" 50's, when the marginal income tax rate was 91% (of income over $400,000). Was that a time of American business being crushed? I dont think so. Then during the Reagan years, the marginal tax rate was lowered, but then applied to the middle class also, and things have been stagnant or getting worse for everyone but the super-rich ever since then.
Taxes are the price of civilization. I find it amazing that a culture which thinks nothing of spending thousands buying the best television they can is unwilling to spend any money to purchase the best country they can. And it's not like building infrastructure and educating the populace doesnt pay high dividends.
As for FISA, if Bush is giving up, it's because the Republican Cabal has already figured out an end-run around the Dems.
jnratliff @ 3:
I disagree. I think that we are living in a Republican utopia: Endless war. Deregulation. A new indentured servant class. Millions of "real Americans" voting against their own self-interest. Record profits for corporations. Civil rights stripped. Control of the media. Right-wing ideologues on the supreme court. And all with impunity.
If they aren't popular now, it's because they have succeeded. They're victims of their own success.
To the Congress:
So Bush and his friends want to chat, eh?
To hell with that.
No chat, no compromise, no deal.....no nothing.
And whatever they decide to threaten you with, explain to them that they are all guilty of war crimes.....and that there's no statue of limitations on war crimes. It's just like murder.
Have a nice day.
If the fight was won...GREAT!
I have never bought into the premise that FISA needed "updating" in the first place. That was always a bogus and bullshit argument invented to provide cover for further acts of rape against the Constitution. But, at least it did flush out a lot of Democrats who were/are willing to sell the American People and the Constitution down river, including new Democrats who were even supported by Blue America, like Senator Webb.
To all those Democrats: It's the Constitution and the rule of law first and always first, stupids! Undermining the Constitution and the rule of law is the single most grave threat imaginable to the security of this nation. If I have to choose between taking my chances with some nebulous, mostly imaginary boogeyman or living in the kind of "security" that can only be afforded by a maximum security prison or a graveyard, I'll choose the boogeyman every single time. If our elected officials are too stupid, afraid or corrupt to understand that, they need to be fired....they are unfit for office.
If Congress could put this national security vs. individual liberties issue to rest, perhaps it could return to the INITIAL gutting of the Constitution and civil rights from this administration's running of the Justice Department. The US Attorneys' firings scandal was just the crowbar that lifted the rock where we got a peek at the creatures scampering around in the dark.
I belive that now's the time to repeat the supoena's, revisit the lies, memory losses and smokescreens and have a Sergeant-at-Arms standing by to remind the witnesses THIS TIME about inherent contempt. Bring 'em all back - the neophytes, the morally and ethically undeveloped zealots and true believers and find out FOR REAL if they want to throw their lives in the crapper for Karl Rove and his Neo-Con cabal.
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