Attention ABC: You're HURTING America! UPDATED with VIDEO!
By Nicole Belle Tuesday Apr 15, 2008 8:18pmWell, it worked for Jon Stewart and Crossfire...
An hour into the latest Democratic Debate and overwhelmingly, the consensus is that ABC is doing a fine job... of completely ignoring the issues that concern Americans and focusing on minutia that is hurting the race, the Democratic party and the American electoral process.
We've put together a mash up of some of the more egregious bits of the debate,
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
And we thought you'd enjoy reading the reviews on ABC's site: (UPDATE #2: ABC has NOT shut down the comments. We were misinformed. Our apology. There are now well over 10,000 complaints, er...comments)
4,000 of them at this writing. Thanks to Heather for the screen grabs. What do you think? Take our poll below:
Want to make your voice known? ABC switchboard: 212-456-7777 or email here
Login or Register to post comments.
DUDE!!!
new blog up for all to read. I remember ABC was a good station for kids in very early 70s. Today its total sleeze.
Take care and good night alles
Best regards
Of course ABC is biased toward Hillary. A big corporation like them wants a Republican president and elected or not - Hillary will deliver.
Here's my latest email to Chuckles Gibson and Stephanie:
My God!!! Here we are 30minutes into your so called "debate" and neither you or Stephanopolis have had the guts or journalistic integrity to ask either Democratic Candidate a substantive question.
Is there any chance this will change or will you and Stephie continue your gutless form of journalism.
A question about Sanctioned Torture, the Economy, Energy Independence, or anything of substance is not expected....but would be appreciated.
Oh sorry i did forget to danke C&L for a nice blog and allowing others as well as myself to comment here too.
Thanks again folks.
Night again
:)
After 45 minutes of that dribble, I was pretty much convinced that Fox News was actually running the show.
The really dumb question about the lapel pin was the first big hint. The McCarthyesque hit job over the Weather Underground "connection" was the clincher.
I switched back to the baseball game. Should've been there all along.
What do you expect from Disney News?
Yes, but what I need to know is do you deny Bill Ayers? What about Bill Ayers? Do you disown Bill Ayers? There are no such things as questions about the economy or John McCain's threats to attack Iran, etc., or basing his Iraq plans on fantasies of "oh yeah what if it's like South Korea or Japan". What America needs to know is why you love Weather Underground terrorism 40 years ago and why have you not sewn your children into a giant American flag which says "Americans Are Never Bitter."
Also, do you disown and reject and deny Bill Ayers? This is important. Sean Hannity says so.
Worst. Debate. Ever.
I emailed a question yesterday to ask them to focus on torture.
I got GARBAGE back. The response has nothing to do with the question. It was about how to use their frigging web site.
totally agree
worthless "debate" tonight and a waste of everyone's time
thanks a lot for that
This debate has been an utter joke. Nearly the first HOUR of it was the most ridiculous display I've seen in a very long time on NETWORK television. What an embarrassment.
It got better at the end, but the candidates pretty much had identical answers to everything.
Not much substance there - we've heard it all before.
exceprts of tim robbings keynote address from the national association of broadcasters show april 14, 2008, from vegas
not filmed of course, but there is audio
http://adage.com/brightcove/single.php?title=1506582278
robbins, robbins, robbins
Make it stop, please, Just. Make. It. Stop!!!
I tuned it off after 35 minutes of NOTHING!!! It wasn't a debate at all but just a series of wierd loaded questions on minutia. I was stunned after they spent 18 minutes on Rev. Wright and then segued onto FLAG PIN WEARING!!! WTF!!!!
The crowd is turning on him.
Its corporate media, what did you expect?
This is a taste of the general debates and Clinton does well.
The interesting aspect to these comments at the ABC site is that the posters seem genuinely disappointed in the performance of the questioners.
How can that be? This is rote for these guys. I never would have even bothered to turn the TV on.
*
disney buying abc started the debasement of broadcast news. nbc being bought by ge brought it to a lower level and fox news finished it.
An hour into the latest Democratic Debate and overwhelmingly, the consensus is that ABC is doing a fine job… of completely ignoring the issues that concern Americans and focusing on minutia that is hurting the race, the Democratic party and the American electoral process.
Disneyfied elections?
4 Friar Tuck
Wasn't Danke a brand of coffee?
I remember at least a couple of months ago getting an email from Hillary supporters requesting me to email a question to the candidate for her to answer in an upcoming event. My question was what she would do to restore Civil Rights in this country. I don't know if she was ever asked this or not, but I doubt it.
Bring back the DAR-sponsored debates! At least they were substantive.
Billary should have run as a GOP...she makes a good one and runs a GOP campaign, sleezy, and dirty. She could ask Liarman to be her VP candidate. If she is able to steal this nomination with the help of the media, I stay home. I would have voted for her a few months ago but she is as sickening as McSame. It is time for real Americans to take to the streets if they steal this election. Billary lost and should step aside before she ruins her Senate career.
Mo Rocca just slammed Dick Cheney, saying about his gentle ribbing of Dick "Sorry, this must be torture, I mean, an inconvenience..." something like that....
i left them a pretty nasty one at 212-------
no 4letter bombs, but plenty of excoriation.
If bitter people are voting for Obama then he just got a few million votes from everyone who suffered through this tabloid teevee crapola. Worst debate ever.
QuakerDave @ 5:
It's an interesting idea - that ABC is actually an affiliate of Fukz News. Hard to argue that they're not.
*
I was watching the internet stream, complete with the 'real-time' readout. Did anyone else catch the ABC news staff ALTERING the chart of who won the debate? They didn't kill the live link, and you could see the mouse pointer of whoever was operating the machine. After the debate, they called up the bar chart, and then typed new numbers into it.
They rigged it.
El Tex @ 10:
Can't waste an opportunity to push all those shiny buttons that say "BE ALARMED!" on them, now can we????
*
I wanted to hear a debate. Not an extended edition of Real Housewives of NYC.
Thank God we have candidates. Now all we need for a debate are real people to ask real questions. What knid of crap were these "moderators" trying to pull?
I think what we saw tonight is what the republicans want to see for the rest of the campaign - NOTHING but drivel and idiotic questions about who a candidate taliked to when he was 8 years old.
My God, this country has been ruined my morons for the last eight years, we do not need morons like these tow "moderators" to make sure another moron is put into the White House.
ABC - YOU BLEW IT. You wasted a chance to help America and all you did was lower the level. BOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was just stunningly awful. I don't know how Charlie and George can ask those questions with a straight face. I gotta hand it to Obama though, man that guy has just been taking it on the chin for months now. I know he wants to keep it positive but I really wanted to see him get mad and tell them how ridiculous our country's media has become. I wonder if the general public will say enough all ready at some point.
Ahh, he kinda blew mostly, but oh well..
ABC just wanted America to know that Obama is a tax-raiser who is unpatriotic and consorts with fanatical pastors and anarchists.
That's all.
Mission accomplished.
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller at Bilderberg Meeting... Baden-Baden, Germany 1991
"There's really five companies that control 90 percent of what we read, see and hear." - Ted Turner
Lance @ 30:
Not by the mainstream media he hasn't. Of course since the debate wasn't on MSNBC, there was nobody around to be his nursemaid.
I don't see the point in watching the debates. Television debates are just a platform to dumb-down the political dialog in this country.
ABC was terrible. It was nearly half way through the debate until they actually got to actual issues that are important to America. These silly gaffes are only important because the media is hyping them. Obama had a good comeback to this ridiculous non- issue of this Aires guy that they brought up. That was puzzling to say the least. These are not the important issues of the day. Bringing up tax's are the most important issues in the election per John McCain was playing right into the main republican talking points. Democrats will raise taxes is all they say even if it's not directly said by any candidate. Tax's are not at all the most important issues of the day as everybody with any common sense knows. This debate was more like ABC/FOX debate. Worst debate ever,except if it were held on Fox news.
SHAME ON ALL THE MEDIA NETWORKS WHO SPEND THIER TIME AND ANYONE WHO TUNES IN WITH DUMB STUFF WHEN WE THE AMERICA PEOPLE ARE BITTER AT THE WAY OF LIFE WE DON'T HAVE.BUSH AND HIS WAR CRIMALS SHOULD BE IMPEACHED.
But *gasp*, I thought the MSM was firmly backing Obama this whole time! I mean, that's what Clinton and SNL have been telling me! Backing him once they gave up on their "Hillary Clinton is too far ahead, the other Democrats shouldn't even run" meme from a few months before the Iowa caucuses, I mean. Am I the only one who remembers that time period?
OMG, you think the corporate media and the gop are going to hand over power without a fight?
Are going to be fair? Come on.
Reality check.
This is what the general debates will be like.
Need a fighter not a whiner.
Geez.
I am trying to be objective, but if you look at the list of topics in the first hour...could it have been any better a choice for Hillary? And the capital gains tax? For fucks sake that is a campaign issue for the Club for Growth not regular Americans. I have no idea what ABC was thinking, but they get the Tim Russert award for failing as humans much less moderators.
Thanks for the number and email link for contacting ABC News. The switchboard sent me to a voice message system that didn't work. So I did the email thing. Thanks again for the link!
I can't have been the only one watching the internet stream. Someone else has to have seen them rigging the poll results.
Welcome to Fascist Amerika. No surprises here. Move along.
the msm simply want to keep trying to cripple the democratic frontrunner until the convention, so that they will have some disadvantage against mcAin't. it's completely transparent.
additionally, if you ever saw stephanopolos on sundays, you know that he couldn't fit a though into that head with a shoehorn.
like it or not, America is seeing just how far the media is going in order to control the election process. maybe they'll realize that the media erased Kucinich and Edwards.
maybe.
I really couldnt believe what I was watching. What you would imagine to be a historic debate-in Philadelphia, long hotly contested primary, probably the last one before a nominee is decided, national coverage....and it was a slimey sleeze fest.
40 minutes of one after an another
-Flag pin? Barack
-Ayers?Barack
-Bitter Clingers? Barack
-Wright? Barack
-Oh and are you sorry you misspoke about Bosnia Hillary? Good lets move on.
Asked her about Iraq but did not mention she voted for it.
Asked her about Bosnia but did not pin her down on the fact that she said it multiple times from prepared speeches and that until tonight she had never actually apologized.
Didnt ask her about her statements about the blue collar workers in the 90's, or being on the board of Walmart, or accepting lobbyist money from all the companies she mentioned being against tonight
Let her ramble about the beauty of the 90's without pointing out it was her husbands presidency, not hers...and that we are no longer in the 90's
Look-I know I am rambling and sound combative. But those two guys were ridiculous. Their favoritism obvious. And the entire debate so demeaning that even Obama-well-you could see the look of incredulity on his face.
Really? Did we really just go there for two hours? I barely recognize us...or US, anymore.
ABC News, where I know many execs, and Stephanopolous, whom I've met, should hang their head in Shame. In trying to avoid become an SNL parody, they overcompensated. The lack of drive-by nature of the questioning and the clear Hillary bias (and hey, I like Hillary), was astonishing, even to a cynic. Another sad day for network news.
the first hour was spent talking about a flag pin, obama's pastor, bosnian snipers, the weather underground, and bitterness. FUCKING PATHETIC. ABC should be ashamed.
Sen. Barack Obama
3,022
Sen. Hillary Clinton
1,268
It was a tie
376
Total Vote: 4,666
Not a scientific survey. LOL
Howard Wolfson is disgusting. He has no morals.
My hope is my liver can survive tonight's debate, but even if it doesn't, I had a good laugh by seeing that Obama won it 60-40 on Drudge's poll.
I mean, really, Howard doesn't understand what he is doing, he is disgusting, disgusting, disgusting.
This is why we need to get behind the front runner, Obama. This is the BS that's hurting our chances right now and the wounds will remain into the future. ABC just fanned the flames some more. It was gossip first and issues second. We need to end this!!
Jeff @ 47:
but they are not.
Our same media told you that Al Gore was a liar. Our same media told you that the administration was completely trustworthy in making its case for war in Iraq! Kerry was an out-of-touch elitist, but Bush was a simple guy and the great thing about him is "you know where he stands."
This is deja vu all over again! The MSM is in the tank for the GOP.
there was around 3 minutes of actual DEBATE in between George's notes from Sean Hannity.
"Lost" is my favorite TV show but I will GLADLY BOYCOTT IT AND DISNEY after this garbage
C&L and other sites need to get ABC's phone number so we can scream for their heads.
Arrow @ 52:
for me it starts with not watching the debates on msm.
what did you expect ! a debate???
Gion @ 55:
212 456 7777
No questions on what effects us. All questions on gossip and special interests of republicans like taxes and guns. God Damnit.
What about Habeas Corpus or Torture?
What about the importance of the Constitution?
What about NAFTA and Free Trade deals that benefit Corporations?
What about THE GOD DAMN WAR? Or Veteran's benefits.
OSAMA BIN LADEN?
Our country is going down. If you aren't outraged and ready to stand up and speak out, you are crazier than I am.
The MEDIA is bought and paid for. Our election machines are privatized and the software is secret?
We are talking about Flag Pins? Pastors? The American Flag etc.??
Obama should get a pin of the constitution and wear that on his chest. People forget about that.
Damn I'm sick of these Corporations taking over our country and people like Rove getting away with it.
I am not at all surprised by the comments here. You are all so used to the msm not ever asking Obama any questions that should have been asked more than a year ago and you are all freaking out because he is finally being vetted for all America to see and hear. Does anyone really believe that Obama attended that church for 20 years and did not know who the hell his pastor was and what he believed? Thinking people who haven't been drinking the kool-aid know better. This man is dishonest and arrogant and I think that came through loud and clear and it is fascinating watching Olbermann, Howie Fineman, Gene Robinson, Candy the Cow and David Gergen trying their very best to spin this for Obama. This man will lose and lose big in the general against McCrazy which tells you that once again the Democrats will grab defeat from the jaws of victory. God Help us All!!
Stephanopoulos worked for Clinton who praised him in his book. He and Carville were at the helm of Clinton's 92 campaign. Is it any surprise that he went after Obama. it is shameful of him and of abc, but why is anyone surprised. These people prize loyalty over patriotism.
This was a travesty. No discussions about: trade policies, national security, privacy, the environment, education, the economic crises, the monetary crisis, farm/agricultural policies, or anything else of substance. Instead we get republican talking points: 'revenues go up when you lower taxes'; 'Iran is pursuing a nuclear bomb', and bunch of character assassination by proxy. Aside from being almost completely vacuous, the moderators seemed out to get Obama. In one of the few interesting discussions, Clinton refused to commit to addressing SS funding; instead, she suggested it would just be fixed -- by magic, one would assume.
I don't think I have ever genuinely disliked the MSM more then I do tonight. . .
Because they were finally trying to do their job of asking normal questions of the Speechifier?
WHO is with me in supporting. A 30 day msm boycott with the possibility of an extension, depending on circumstances. C&L can watch tv for us and keep us updated. But it should all be thrown out. maybe watch olbermann and dan abrams on msnbc.. but nothing else...
who's with me?
spread the word....
In almost 20 years of active participation in our democracy, I don't think I've ever witnessed a more shameful 'excuse' for a debate. What a complete sham. I've sent ABC an email expressing my dismay, and made some comments on their page. I'm having a hard time believing that the travesty I just watched was actually real. It seems a bit surreal.
Actually they did Obama a huge favor by asking him questions about stuff he knows atleast some thing about. If they asked him Policy questions, he would have been 'umumumumuming' and 'aahaahaahhaahing' all day long, and made to look like a blathering idiot in front of a knowledgeable policy wonk like Sen. Clinton.
I felt awful that I missed the debates, but then after reading all the comments regarding the substance of the debate, I am happy again.
America has lost it's way, and I'm talking about the media. Such tabloid bullshit. I remember traveling in England back in the late 60's, and I saw all those tabloid newspapers they have. I thought to myself, "Wow, this country is all caught up in bullshit gossip and meaningless drivvle." Well, welcome to England 1960's, because that's all our media is interested in today.
Screw the nation. We don't hear about the issues or the things that are going to make a difference in America. We hear about gossip and bullshit for half the debate.
Such a sham. Shame on us.
And where was this outrage when the Boys club was ganging up on Hillary to such an extent that even a judas like Richardson felt ashamed?
cobalt @ 42:
I believe you. This whole thing is rigged. The run up to the war was rigged for christ's sake. We need to collectively admit it and consider the options of action we have to deal with it. The Corporations are in control of our Media (run up to war), Election Process (florida/ohio/most likely New Hampshire and more)/Government. etc. What are we going to do about it.
www.BuyBlue.org was dealing with it, by exposing which corporations were giving money to the Bush administration and that was subsequently taken down, supposed to be back. We need to start organizing major boycotts. Go on major communication/education campaigns. We buy into it on the blogs just discussing garbage and gossip. We need to organize and take actions. I don't know what. But I'm done discussing if or if not they are rigging the debates and elections. It's time to discuss what to do about that reality. Good post cobalt.
Orangutan. @ 59:
Why not ask those kind of questions? Answer is simple really, because their pea-brain cannot register and process these "scholarly" questions?
Wat is Torturo ? And Habeash Corps ? Wat is that? Is that some kind of drug or something ?
And Constitushion ? Idk, what this means, maybe some kind of super deluxe bed cushion.
Veteran? Well, we don't give animal any kind of health benefits, tyvm.
Osama Bin Laden ? Oh, you mean Obama bin Laden, he is right here among us, trying to be our US of A's Preshidient.
If there is another Democratic debate, I would love for Obama and Clinton to agree beforehand to simply not field any character-based questions. I mean, there's a long list of substantive issues - all of which would be left in play. But when the next MSM gasbag asks about lapel pins or some such nonsense, they would just be met with a flat stare. It would undoubtedly make the moderator start squirming and they'd toss some variant of the question to the other candidate and get the same response. Then at some point one of them could inform the moderators that the candidates are more than willing to field any substantive questions the moderators might have.
There is an undeclared war against Democratic candidates by the MSM. I think at this point highlighting that fact is more useful than harmful.
This was a long debate and the policy questions came after the vetting of both of the things that have been in the news. But, it seems, Obama supporters are an impatient lot and will have no questions asked of the Great Obama that will make him the slightest bit uncomfortable. Amazing! But none of you have any problem with dragging Hillary thru the mud day after day after day. She did a very good job tonight but will be given no credit for that here, right?
A man went to a brain store to get some brain to complete a study. He sees a sign remarking on the quality of professional brain offerred at this particular brain store. He begins to question the butcher about the cost of these brains.
"How much does it cost for engineer brain?"
"Three dollars an ounce."
"How much does it cost for programmer brain?"
"Four dollars an ounce."
"How much for journalist brain?"
"$1,000 an ounce."
"Why is journalist brain so much more?"
"Do you know how many journalists we had to kill to get one ounce of brain?"
Well.... I think this shows how fracking elitist is ABCNews and all of the other wealthy pundits. They think this is what "real" Americans want, their Presidential election reduced to tabloid gotcha.
Really, we need to push back hard. We turned back Sinclair Broadcasting last election, we can turn back ABC this time.
Hillary for President!!
...Of the National McCain Fan Club.
59 said "What about Habeas Corpus or Torture?
What about the importance of the Constitution?
What about NAFTA and Free Trade deals that benefit Corporations?
What about THE GOD DAMN WAR? Or Veteran’s benefits.
OSAMA BIN LADEN?"
EXACTLY
What about the fact that we now know The president and his cabinet choreographed the most despicable, degrading torture since Nazi Germany-without apology or explanation? Not seeing that on the news. OR in the debate questions.
What about jobs being sent overseas...or the prevalent Olympics issue/China issue?
What about our standing in the world? Our safety in the world? What about anything that has any consequence to this world?
No, no...I think people really want to know why Obama wants orange juice and doesnt wear a flag pin.
UNREAL....thank you Nicole....for posting this...I have never seen anything like this....disgusting....Please come over to http://watergatesummer.blogspot.com,if you want to vent more.....thanks....
mccain can't get any fact straight, no problem. obama says people are bitter, wright gives fiery speech, both are basically true, and the corporate media harps on them nonstop. the msm is definitely framing the election to benefit the gop.
WORST. DEBATE. EVER.
Shame on you George, that was an embarrassment to journalistic integrity.
When I read these post I am grateful that this is a very small sampling of the electorate. People who are actually interested in where these candidates stand and what they stand for in their lives have seen tonight that Obama is not ready for this job and does not have the individual qualities of someone we should entrust to lead this country.
Wow - the first few pages alone of the ABC comments page is stunningly consistent... about 95% of posters expressing disgust with the triviality of the questions posed by moderators and the lost opportunity by ABC to ask questions posters care about.
people, what do you think republicans will do when BO becomes the nominee? huh? wake the hell up.
good job ABC!
The Rude Pundit was right. "...there's no amount of vodka, shrooms, or klonopin that'd get [me] through watching these two put on their dog and pony show one more fuckin' time."
He was right, but he had no idea just how bad it could be.
#60 "Bluesage":
>. You are all so used to the msm not ever asking Obama any questions that should have >been asked more than a year ago and you are all freaking out because he is finally being >vetted for all America to see and hear.
Yes, I feel much better informed now that we know the horrid truth behind Obama's 'refusal' to where a lapel pin that dishonors an American symbol; or that he said many Americans are bitter and angry, since everyone with an ounce of sense is fully aware that many Americans are actually bitter and angry; and, I'm relieved to know Clinton is making us safer by promulgating the crucial issue regarding the ancient history of one of Obama's neighbours. Oh, my goodness, I couldn't agree more that Senator Obama is uppity and intelligent, too! Thank you, Bluesage, for your astute observations and incisive commentary. You've been quite helpful in honestly addressing what really matters, most useful in resolving so many of the visceral conflicts we face.
I'm just staeting to watch the fiasco because ABC was not smart enough to broadcast it live on the west coast. From what I've read in comments, I'm in for a miserable 1 1/2 hours.
CNN has no clue. I mean, Anderson Cooper, UGH! CNN is liberal, sure.
Anonymous Source @ 38:
I'm with you there. The absurdity of Clinton's "Media Victim" whining - after having been all but anointed by them before Iowa - is nauseating.
Blech!
Is Crooks & Liars now becoming Obamapossessed too?
What a damned shame.
Ron @ 85:
Don`t watch it.
I loved the comment in all capitals that concluded that there is no journalism in the U.S.A,only propaganda. I think it`s all soft core porn
Horst @ 84
Well, I'm sure you feel much better after that rant but the fact remains that the questions needed to be asked and he was dishonest in his answers. His relationship with this racist pastor and his relationship with Ayers in not "ancient history" and if this was Clinton's history I'm sure you would have no problem with the questions. The blind support of Obama is so reminicient of the right-wing crazies support of Bush that it is shocking to me. You have all lost all objective reasoning and thought. I am so dismayed by it because it will lose for us in the fall. God damnit you fools!!
#85 Ron-
Bad news, buddy! It is longer that 90 min. - but I had to stop self-flagulating early. Because I could find no indication of a web stream at ABC or through Google, I listened to KABC radio - and that cut off Obama mid-sentence at 89 minutes in order to begin the pre-hoopla hoopla for the Dodgers GAME!
George Carlin said It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
Tonight's farce benefits Hillary who does not give a shit about you or me.
My god, all three CNN people said Hillary and Obama's Iraq statement will be a problem in the general election. Do they know that 68 percent agree with this???? What the hell?
Anderson Cooper - "Do they risk looking Anti-Military?" - Are you serious CNN?
Drew @ 79:
He`s not a journalist.He`s a politician.
We need a BETTER phone number- seriously we need to call and complain and also write and also write to sponsers- the number in #58 above ( 212-456-7777) does NOT work....any ideas folks???
come and let me know, thanks, http://watergatesummer.blogspot.com/,
91 Horst Says: #85 Ron-
Bad news, buddy! It is longer that 90 min. - but I had to stop self-flagulating early. Because I could find no indication of a web stream at ABC or through Google, I listened to KABC radio - and that cut off Obama mid-sentence at 89 minutes in order to begin the pre-hoopla hoopla for the Dodgers GAME!
I had the same problem trying to find the live stream.
Kos's take on the "Atwater Broadcasting Corporation" - ABC.
Give ABC a piece of your mind
by kos
Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:59:44 PM PDT
(212) 456-7777
Lee Atwater Lives!!!
by DHinMI
Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 07:25:32 PM PDT
I used to think Republican operative and Karl Rove mentor Lee Atwater had died in 1991, after a nasty career of Republican race baiting, culture wars, dirty tricks, and a illness-induced conversion to Catholicism and public repentance for his dirty and divisive politics. I was wrong. Lee Atwater apparently works for ABC News in devising bullshit questions to ask Democratic Presidential candidates.
The questioning in tonight's debate--—mostly straight out of 1988—was an abomination. Gun control. 60's radicalism. Inflammatory black pastors. Respecting or disrespecting the flag. Taxes. Being out of touch with the military. Affirmative Action.
I'll bet if they had more time, ABC anchors Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolus would probably have gotten around to asking Obama and Clinton about Willie Horton and Piss Christ.
In case you were wondering, as well as I can recollect, Gibson and Stephanopolus were too concerned with "bitter" and flag pins and superexcellentness of cutting the capital gains tax to ever get around asking Obama and Clinton questions about any of the following subjects:
The financial crisis
The collapse of housing values in the US and around the world
Afghanistan
Health care
Torture
The declining value of the US Dollar
Education
Trade
Pakistan
Energy
Immigration
The decline of American manufacturing
The Supreme Court
The burgeoning world food crisis.
Global warming
China
The attacks on organized labor and the working class
Terrorism and al Qaeda
Civil liberties and constraints on government surveillance
For those who think it's great that Hillary Clinton won't drop out, even though there's no way she can win the nomination and her only hope is some bizarre destruction of Barack Obama between now and the convention, ponder the effects of tonight's debate. The questions asked were not the kinds of questions Democratic primary voters care about. But they are the "gotcha" kinds of questions Republicans try to spring on Democrats in general elections.
I'm not afraid of those questions. I think Obama did fine tonight. Generally Clinton has performed best in debates, but as we first saw in the Texas debate, Obama appears to perform better one-on-one. I especially liked how he refused to get lured in to Charles Gibson's conservative frames, and I like how he dismissed many of Clinton's attacks on him as avoiding the substantive issues and hypocritical, as when he pointed out that Bill Clinton pardoned members of the Weather Underground.
But I don't want Hillary Clinton on the stage with him while he fends off bullshit like what was tossed at him tonight. I want him to be able to pivot around and use the questions—accusations in most cases—against John McCain. I want John McCain to have to fend off Obama's counterpunches, not a Democratic Senator from New York.
There's more to say about the performance of Obama and Clinton. And I'm sure some will say, "who cares about the delegate count, or the polls that show voters don't trust her, or that she fares worse against McCain, or that there's no way short of coup by superdelegates that she can become the nominee, she should stay in the race." But first, share your thoughts with ABC about their performance by clicking here.
Damn - I feel like the only vial of Frontline Plus at a flea and tick convention here.
Thank you ABC for the first real debate. It confirmed what the adults suspected.
Thank you Bluesage for your sage remarks.
OxyCon @ 88:
Oh, please. Obamapossessed has nothing to do with it. It would be the height of intellectual dishonesty to not concede that this 'debate' was nothing more than an anti-Obama farce. It doesn't matter whether you support Hillary or Obama, the bias against him was obvious to anyone who half paid attention.
90 Bluesage-
You just keep on dividing, darlin', and doin' those shots of Hillary-aide. You would like those petty non-issues to be the point, right along with the elitist meme put forth by the decisively non-elete Ms. Private Girls School, $109 Million/annum, H.R. (Her Royal Entitlement) Clinton. If one points that finger, good judgment would dictate she consider her vulnerabilities first.
i only watched a few minutes, but when that asshat asked obama why he would raise capital gains even if "history showed that raising it lowers revenues".. i almost bit off my damn tongue.
Twice. Twice. Twice is not history. Twice doesn't show a pattern or a history. Obama tried to point out that the revenue generation depended on the markets, but he was too subtle. The question was absolutely rediculous. how stupid are these people?
I write an editorial that 'every time capital gains taxes are lowered revenue goes up' and its somehow true. The two times capital gains taxes were lowered revenues went up. Blah.
Anyway, i thought both candidates did a good job. Clinton is obviously shooting for the moon by taking such concrete stands on everything.
Horst @ 84:
Amen.
We're evaluating people wanting to be the most powerful leader in the world, not trying to determine who will be the best homecoming representative. Let's talk about real issues, not those pushed by Faux News. I don't care that Obama's neighbor was in a group that resorted to violence when Obama was 8, much like I don't care that Bill Clinton pardoned members of that group. I don't care that Obama doesn't wear a lapel pin--he's ably addressed that point many times before (like the bumper sticker I saw today "Blindly following bad leadership isn't patriotic"). I want to know whether someone can address real issues that will affect our future and that of the world.
They continue to talk about B.S. that only the media brings up. It'stoo bad that the MSM is not interested in how they might make things better for our citizens and the world.
Typical media entertainment shit!
Remember Path to 9-11. ABC would do whatever it would takes to see McCain win in November. What a disgrace.
ABC is as simple as 123.
I can only hope for actual boos from the audience if future debate moderators stoop to this level of tabloid, junk-journalism questioning.
#103 Slaw-
Thanks, Slaw! BTW - had some at dinner! yummmmm!!!!! (G!) Now that's a real issue! (wink!)
Asking questions? How dare they do that?
Angel @ 99
No sweetie, Thank You! I always get pretty beat up here.
Obama supporters just got a reality check.
I have to agree with the Governor of PA.:
"Even an Obama Kool-Aid drinking guy like yourself has to admit she scored a decisive victory tonight. A decisive victory. A knockout blow. A decisive victory. A decisive victory. Even more decisive when they started asking real questions."
http://openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=F90AF7DB4D982BF205BA9B286109...
Clinton in a knockout. Need a fighter not a whiner.
Thom @ 100:
Agreed, and yet she was the one who came out looking wooden, petty, scripted, ungenerous, and totally out of touch. Go figure.
Sorry people, but if these questions aren't asked NOW, they'll be asked LATER.
Do you want to win the damn General Election, or NOT!?!?!
I think this posted on ABC's site from "gipper0572" puts it pretty well:
"I never post on sites but i could not in all good conscience sleep through the night without expressing how extremely offended i am by your ''debate". How base and ignorant do you think the American people are that you would actually spend over 42 minutes of our time asking questions worthy of any rag tabloid? Guess what...most of us don't care what color Britney Spears new extensions are. We care about how we can continue to live in our homes, provide food and a good education for our children and leave them a better America than we inherited. As a Republican who is trying to inform herself and make a knowledgable and responsible decision in November, i was hoping to really get the details from the two Democratic candidates on the issues that matter to most Americans, instead you did a disservice to the candidates and to all of us. By the way.....what is with ganging up on Obama?"
112 getalife Says: Obama supporters just got a reality check.
I have to agree with the Governor of PA.:
“Even an Obama Kool-Aid drinking guy like yourself has to admit she scored a decisive victory tonight. A decisive victory. A knockout blow. A decisive victory. A decisive victory. Even more decisive when they started asking real questions.”
http://openleft.com/showDiary......aryId=5199
Clinton in a knockout. Need a fighter not a whiner.
You really do need to get a life.
Destardi @ 114:
I'm going to go with NOT
Oh, and Slaw? I'm with you on addressing what impacts Americans daily, and how they'll tackle the enormous challenge of rectifying the nightmare that has only been 'in your face' since 2001, yet threads back unbroken into the 80's.
Awww, Thom...I guess now Obama supporters know what the past 15 years has been like for Hillary.
Man up, because this has been a cakewalk for ObamaBush2.0...
It was beyond shameful, beyond inane, beyond embarrassing. I made the right choice when I tuned out of the tv networks a couple of months ago, and I made the right choice when I turned off the debate.
leon collins @ 110:
You just made an ass of yourself in two questions. Congrats, you did as well as ABC!
ok, i can't help it. I just watched this clip: wow. just wow. that was a new low in TV journalism. Congrats ABC, you just lowered the bar for your entire profession. It's truly a shame that Obama or Clinton didn't stop them and tell them to start asking more relevant questions.
how embarrassing. What a horrible forum ABC put on. Shame shame shame. Shame shame shame.
Contact ABC here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346
Obama supporters, Clinton supporters we all should be angry about the asinine moderation tonight
I am shocked at how badly handled the debate was. I have written ABC suggesting that the moderators and anyone else involved in the question selection tonight be fired, and promised to boycott tonight's advertisers at least until the network issues an apology.
(anyone remember who advertised tonight? i didn't pay attention to the commercials)
Seriously...I cannot believe for one second that one of my favorite blogs of all time has been invaded by non-thinking ObamaBushbot 2.0's, that have railed against the media for the past 7 years of giving cover to Bush and his failed policies, and now the same media is being believed and not questioned on coverage for Obama.
The same media. What's changed people?
Oh yea...this time around, it's YOUR guy that you want to slither through without being questioned.
I see why the Clinton supporters are "older and wiser"
ALot of people are now suddenly believing the media..and their polls..and their naysaying.
WE'll see on the 22nd, won't we? Clinton gets a blowout...same thing happened in Ohio near the primary.
mark.my.words.
And ANYone foolish enough to believe THIS was a bad debate because Obama actually got called on things, what the f*ck do you think the republicans are going to do?
You are in for such a disappointment..and I'ms urprised..I thought my fellow dems were smarter than that?
getalife @ 112:
I'm curious... would you say Hillary won this debate? How would you characterize it? Would you call it "decisive?" It's not clear from your post. Just asking.
122 motorfingaz Says: Contact ABC here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346
Obama supporters, Clinton supporters we all should be angry about the asinine moderation tonight
The problem is, they think we are stupid. Their problem is that they think we are stupid.
I've always thought that one of the great strengths of the Democrats is that they are a skeptical lot. We question those who would represent us - we don't just fall in line and hero worship, we are thoughtful and want to know all there is to know. I voted for the first time in 1968 (bad year) and haven't missed a vote since whether it be for mayor or for president and I've never seen Democrats lose all perspective the way they have in this election cycle. This might just be the most important election of my lifetime and we are going to blow it because the media has picked our candidates and the electorate has gone bonkers. Obama is not ready for this job and I truly don't believe he can survive a general election and we will wind up with McCrazy. Our only hope at this point I believe is having huge gains in our majorities in the House and Senate.
Thank you so much for the excellent questions. Instead of throwing the usual soft balls at Obama, you asked him relevant questions. How did he do? Terrible. He does not do well without a script and when he has to think on his feet. What's even sadder, is the ridiculous outrage by Obama's supporters. As we have been trying to tell them for a while-they ain't seen nothin' yet. The Republicans would be all over Obama, his lack of resume, and his "good friends-Rezko, Wright, and Ayers. Their candidate has not been truly vetted and it's about time it started to happen. Don't worry about their silly petition. These are the same people who do not care if two entire states are disenfranchised if they feel the votes won't go for their candidate. Wouldn't it be wonderful, if they were as involved with making sure all the votes count.
129 Bluesage Says: I’ve always thought that one of the great strengths of the Democrats is that they are a skeptical lot. We question those who would represent us - we don’t just fall in line and hero worship, we are thoughtful and want to know all there is to know. I voted for the first time in 1968 (bad year) and haven’t missed a vote since whether it be for mayor or for president and I’ve never seen Democrats lose all perspective the way they have in this election cycle. This might just be the most important election of my lifetime and we are going to blow it because the media has picked our candidates and the electorate has gone bonkers. Obama is not ready for this job and I truly don’t believe he can survive a general election and we will wind up with McCrazy. Our only hope at this point I believe is having huge gains in our majorities in the House and Senate.
In my opinion, Obama has a much better chance of beating McCain.
J.C. @ 122:
I would take that as a badge of honor,, if tonight is any example.
Destardi @ 126:
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I didn't think it was a bad debate because Obama got called on things. I thought it was a bad debate because we have serious issues to discuss in this country. Serious stands that I want to hear both candidates make (and I'm not an Obamabot or a Clintonite--I just don't want to see McCain in office). And what we got instead was superficial moderation that I'd expect from the National Enquirer, not the network that just broke the story that the White House not only authorized but choreographed torture.
The voting public deserves more than they got. We don't need more Rev. Wright and Bosnia, flag lapel pins and Weather Underground. We need to know how these people are planning to lead us out of the mess we're in.
I was looking through ABC's "debate" thread for my own comment when I found this one I thought readers here might agree with:
Pathetic emphasis on the trivial, another reason why I rarely watch the MSN anymore, and instead follow the political webblogs, such as Daily Kos, Daily Dish, Crooks & Liars, where today's TRUE journalism is being conducted. Adapt, dinosaur, or die.
Posted by:
PhilipGr 10:56 PM
Destardi @ 126:
Yeah, everyone complaining about the lack of substance in this debate is non-thinking. How dare we want to talk about issues like the war, the housing crisis, the failing economy, education, etc. That is so non-thinking. Real thinkers want to know: Diamonds or pearls? Why didn't you know that you third cousin's neighbor got caught stealing cable? Why haven't you explained to the American people why you once owned a CD by Milli Vanilli?
Contact ABC here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346
Obama supporters, Clinton supporters we all should be angry about the asinine moderation tonight
Slaw @ 135:
Hillary supporters should be happy we're talking about the moderators instead of Hillary being willing to possibly violate the Constitution of the United States by launching massive military intervention anywhere in the Middle East where a ally is in danger. That's more hawkish than the neocons.
You're seeing the birthing of a totalitary state. Instead of informing people of what they need to know, the so called news media are keeping important news away from Americans. The people who are reporting the news are already bought. They have their receipts. In the corporate media's eye's, you are stupid.
I'd rather see Obama get the nod, but I'm not upset about his performance tonight, or the fact that he's actually getting called on anything. I'm upset because this was a democratic debate, between two candidates vying for the Democratic nomination, and the defence of tonight's questions is "this is what Obama will have to face in the fall". Yes, he will have to deal with every petty detail about his personality, and everything that was said by everyone he's ever been in a room with, because that's the Republican game...but how about tonight's debate being about policy on real issues? they glossed over the economy and the war, and didn't talk about a lot of issues that are important to Democrats, and Americans of all political affiliations. If there's a chance Hilary is going to get the nod, then i want to hear more details about her social security plan. I want to know as much as possible about how Obama is planning on ending the war. I don't care about the flag pin, and most anyone who is going to be voting in the primaries doesn't either....regardless of what Obama will have to face later, should he be the nominee.
.
.
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Man, the American democratic system is totally broken.
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.
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I wonder if we will see reports of the massive outrage.
Ron @ 131
We will agree to disagree on that. Like Hillary said tonight, she has a lot of baggage and they (the republicans) have been rummaging thru it for the past 16 years - she can handle what they throw at her. None of it will come as a surprise to the electorate because we've heard it all and we are sick of it. She is smart and capable and a real fighter. Obama is a novice and not very good when asked the hard questions. No one really believes that he had no idea who his pastor of 20 years really was. That is just an incredibly dishonest answer. He got the title of his book from this man, he said he was friends with this man for 20 years and said this man was his spiritual mentor. Now he claims not to know what he stood for and never heard the hatred this man spewed from the pulpit. None of that rings true to people who can still think for themselves.
You people who support obama and the others who support clinton...
Your fighting is shameful. Your actions are tearing apart this party. I have read and read and I am sick and tired of reading your drama. Don't you see what you are doing? You are tearing apart the very fabric of what we stand for. Continue doing what you are doing and you do the Republicans' work FOR THEM? Seriously, are you that stupid?
I mean, fine, go ahead and continue to complain. Let McSame get into the White House. Let him play out his 100 years of war in Iraq. Let him take troops to invade Iran. Let him make the United States of America look like a complete ass even more so than it already does.
For the record, I could care less who gets the Dem nod, as long as McCain doesn't get to be the one controlling the red button.
Seriously,
"..I thought my fellow dems were smarter than that?"
Are you kidding me?? A smart Dem doesn't cow tow to this kind of talk. A smart Dem backs the candidate, no matter who it is. And the fighting that is going on here is rediculous!
When will you people realize that fighting amongst ourselves will get a MORON elected into office. An even BIGGER one than you people think. And that man supports things that we do not even moreso than between Clinton and Obama. Do we want to stay in Iraq? Do we want to be forced to invade Iran? I didn't think so.
This will be the only time you will see this post here. I sincerely hope some of you people start realizing that the only way we can truly take our country back is to make sure McCain doesn't get in office. That...should be the goal of the Democratic party above all else.
For once, their candidate was asked questions that should have been asked months ago, and the Obamabots are out in force -WHINING BIG TIME. Get over yourselves. These questions need to be asked, should have been asked, and thank God are finally being asked. He can't handle it, and you can' either. WAKE UP PEOPLE, THE QUESTIONS ARE ONLY GOING TO GET TOUGHER FROM HERE ON OUT. WHO YOU SHOULD BE ANGRY WITH, IS YOUR CANDIDATE, FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO ANSWER THE TOUGH QUESTIONS.
Mister Anderson @ 136:
Yeah Right!
You mean it is not in America's interest to focus on who wears flags on their lapels, and what someone whom the candidate knows says, instead of their policies? Who woulda thunk it?
ABC/Disney is fair game. The same network that brought us the lies behind Pathway to 9/11, and Fred Thompson. Proceed with extreme prejudice.
The protest movement has already started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvUNFmB7Jl8&e
Very suspicious that George Stephanopoulis worked for Bill Clinton and was a moderator at this "debate."
As for Obama facing a debate against McCain, I would hope more substantive questions are asked on that day. And that day is coming. If you Hillary supporters believe that what Obama's ex-preacher said is actually an issue, then you'll have to agree that Hillary's sniper fire lie (from her own mouth) is also an issue that needs much, much more debate, until an honest answer is given. I wonder why Stephanopoulis didn't get into that important "issue"?
I'm old enough to remember when ABC News was dead last against the likes of CBS with Cronkite and Sevareid and NBC with Huntley, Brinkley and Chancellor. ABC could never get in their league and when Disney bought ABC, they didn't try. It is all about advertising revenue and keeping the show going. For ABC, the "debate" was not news, it was entertainment. Watching it in that context wasn't offensive except for their pretense that it was news.
Watching George and Charlie though reminded of the old Bernard Shaw line, who after being told that by a prostitute that she would go to bed with him for $100 but for not for $5 said "what do you think I am, a cheap whore," responded "madam , we know what you are, we are just haggling about the price." With George and Charlie we indeed are just haggling about the price.
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