Bill Kristol: Hillary gets no respect
By scarce Sunday Apr 27, 2008 3:00pm 
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In one of the odder transformations seen this primary season, some of the harshest critics of Hillary Clinton are now championing her candidacy with great gusto. Kristol seems to lead this pack of concern trolls from the vast rightwing conspiracy, but we've also seen Rush Limbaugh, Joe Scarborough,and Karl Rove among others rush to her defense. And then last month's bizarre endorsement from her once arch nemesis Richard Mellon Scaife.
In this clip from yesterday's Fox News Sunday Kristol rallies to her side saying, "She is a better candidate than he is. "
And Kristol continues today in the NY Times:
I normally don’t claim to speak for other members of the vast right-wing conspiracy. After all, we’re each nefarious in our own, individual way. Indeed, we often disagree with one another.
But I do think I can speak for most of my fellow right-wingers when I say this: We once looked forward with unambivalent glee to the fall of the house of Clinton. Many of us still do. But we also see the liberal media failing to give Hillary Clinton the respect she deserves. So, since we conservatives believe in giving credit where credit is due, it falls to us to praise Hillary.
Of course, the disdain for all things Clinton has not lessened one iota among these people. The annoying clucking sound we hear is only Republicans savoring the prospect of Democratic discord, their only real means to retaining the White House.
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Bingo.
just in time that the GOP talking heads start talking her up. Now maybe even the "uneducated" voters will pick up on this...
The "Right" wants Hillary to get the nom. because they believe they can beat her.
They fear Obama.
Ewww, if Kristol thinks you're good, you better check yourself into a mental instution! He's getting creepier and creepier...
Of course they like Clinton, she's shown she's just like them. Obama's honesty and independence, on the other hand, scares them shitless.
Kristol is on board with Limbaugh:
Screw the World! Riot in Denver!
They just want to promote disarray in the Democratic Party. The media is eating up. Despite the dissent of folks like Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Thad Cochran, etc., who had vowed never to support McCain, it is the Dems who are falling apart.
More blabbering from the chickensh!t, chickenhawk, warmongering, coward. Why does this useless specimen get space?
Why are Neo-cons campaigning for Hillary Clinton?
I have to wonder whether or not the Neo-cons and the Centrist Democrats have some kind of secret power sharing agreement.
And don't the Obama supporters suck it up.
Blame her for disunity in the party that's not there, except for the most hard-core who play by repugs talking points whether they know it or not.
"So, since we conservatives believe in giving credit where credit is due..."
HOOEY. and BULLSHIT.
... no more than they believe in taking responsibility for wrongs...
A totally expected editorial perspective on the Wright speech today from Fox News: http://www.skewz.com/link/link_details/6393?section=comments
However, the comment here is interesting. Is Mr. Moody offended by Hagee's remarks about the Roman Catholic church which were much more pointed and direct? It seems not. This seems to be an example of selective outrage to advance a very specific political agenda.
Otay @ 1:
I think it's more a case of them seeing Hillary as "sensible" (see: selling out to Health Insurance interests, threatening Iran with genocide) than them trying to split the vote. In the eyes of the conservative, a triangulating centrist is far preferable than a slightly-left-of-center figure. Not to mention, of course, the fact that Obama will likely have a stronger influence on Congressional elections as the nominee.
Of course at this point, the Neutral Progressive Blogosphere™ has to keep pretending that Hillary and Obama are exactly the same people with slightly different names. Keep on reachin' for that rainbow, dudes.
I think the Repubs have given up any realistic hope of holding the White House this year. They are rallying behind Clinton because they know it will give them a better chance in 2012. One Clinton term would be more than enough to energize the right wing base like McCain never could. An Obama presidency on the other hand, would not engender nearly the same knee-jerk rage that Hillary does.
Hillary attended fundraisers thrown for her by Rupert Murdoch and was endorsed by his New York post. She attended editorial meetings with Richard Mellon Scaife and was endorsed by his Pittsbugh Tribune-Review.
Should anyone be surprised that Kristol is in her corner now?
News Corpse, The Internet's Chronicle Of Media Decay.
I like the frame you chose of Kristal to post for this entry. It looks like he got smacked in the face....not that I'm advocating violence.
Finnigan @ 5:
You mean like JFK's run, Carter's run, Clinton's run?
repugs favorite tactics are god and country, so if Obama is the candidate he will be the target of propagandizing about flag-pins, national anthems, Michelle's "anti-American" comments, Wright's "anti-American" comments, his Islamic father, his "funny" middle-name etc.
Hillary's already used to and familiar with the reichwing's tactics.
Hillary is generally considered more hard-core liberal than Bill, and less likely to compromise like Obama.
The right thinks they know how to defeat Hillary. If they can't, it's no big deal as she's really one of them. Obama, on the other hand, is a wild card. Elected mostly by small contributors, he's a danger to their way of doing business. They fear him.
Of course the reichwing also want Hillary to run so they can bring up Monicagate, and all the phony baloney scandals of the 90's against her.
ysbaddaden @ 17:
By whom? And if it's someone you know, can you ask if they've seen her voting record?
Also, again, threatening to kill everyone in Iran.
That is exactly right. The campaign that they would run against Obama will reveal them as the racist party. That will set them back even more.
bob @ 18:
Wow.. way to say the same thing I did.
Hmm maybe it's reverse psychology. They really want McCain to face Obama so they talk up Hillary expecting and getting the kneejerk reaction. Either way Bill Kristol has made an obvious statement of fact: despite a lifetime of dedication to the Democratic party she sure doesn't get any respect here.
Travis @ 20:
The Neocons call it the New World Order; the Centrist Democrats (like the Clintons) call it Globalism.
Same meaning different word.
So, Bill, was your country happier and more prosperous ten years ago than today? Yes or no?
Bill? Bill?
It was, but you weren't.
Getting to the nub of the issue, I think.
so hillary is "already used to and familiar with the reichwing’s tactics"...
then, if nothing else, i'm quite ready for some NEW trash talk...
i'm really really really sick of the clinton baggage...
A vote of support from these buttworms is like getting Hilter, Jack the Ripper and Al Capone to do tv ads for you. Sciafe has funded almost every rightwing think tank(bullshit factory) that you would care to name, the world will be a much better place when that eggsucker dies. As for bloodless bill, stay off our side ,you smell of skunk and Iam not sure which end Iam looking at. CEO
I think we easily forgot that Falwell himself came out and said only Satan himself could get a disillusioned GOP populace out to vote better than Hillary Clinton. When Rupert Murdock is throwing campaign fundraisers for her, when Rush, Coulter, and Kristol are pining for her, what the hell do you think this means? They are even having Republicans vote in the Dem primary to prop her campaign corpse up. They simply NEED her to get their voters out. Come general election every one of those @ssholes will be firmly behind McCain. They'll fabricate some reason or another...
Boy, with friends like this Hillary doesn't need enemys.
the more i see of these type of endorsements, the more i realize that hillary is our next president.
and that's not a good thing.
CEO,citizens,eyes,open @ 27:
The loser leaders that we had in the 90s are trying to cling to power through proxy.
We got poppy pulling W's strings and now we got Bill trying to rule through his on again off again wife.
Rush Limbaugh, Joe Scarborough,and Karl Rove among others rush to her defense. And then last month’s bizarre endorsement from her once arch nemesis Richard Mellon Scaife
....fearin' the black man....
It's amazing that his photogenic smile hides such egotistic evil.
We are so lucky that Cheney only has a callous smirk.
It's maddening but Clintons wins from Texas on are all from gooper mischief and Reagan racists that wont vote for her in the fall. The problem try telling that to Clintonistas. As pathetic a candidate as McCain is, he will be a favorite against Hillary.
And yes, there's always time to throw in the "liberal media" lie...
YourMom @ 33:
The man is the PR spokesperson for the Illuminati.
Name Required @ 28:
Absolutely, and I hope the superdelegates are watching closely.
If Hillary was ahead, the Republican concern trolls would be praising Obama.
It's all about sowing that discord.
moondancer @ 34:
Odd conclusion that. According to today's AP-Ipsos poll she shows a nine point lead over Obama against McCain
20 Travis
No one source, but various reviews of insider books by those who worked in the Clinton Whitehouse. Bill kept trying to reach across the aisle.
Her reputation for stubborness came from her attempts at medical reform, as well as an unfortunate secrecy. She knew her opponents would try to shoot it apart point by point if that's how she released it, but releasing it complete made would-be supporters felt ignored.
Plus like Social Security "reform" it was a lightening rod.
Haulin' Oates @ 30:
i agree!... but my comment is about your name... made me smile big...
my kids are adults now, but when growing up i would play "name that tune" with them while they were captive in the car listening to radio...
my son was in jr. high (and way more into punk than mom's rock-n-roll) when we both found out that he had thought, all that time, the name of that band was: "Haulin' Oates"... we still get a giggle out of that one...
ok... sorry 'bout the OT...
just, thanks for the funny memory...
The rightwing nut jobs know the only way McCrazy can win is if he runs against Hillary. Repugs are betting that if she gets the nod, one of the largest blocks of the democratic party will stay home and thats the black vote. She will also lose a good portion of the youth vote who will go for a third party like Nader. She will also lose a portion of the anti-war progressive part of the party to someone else. A good chunk of raygun dems will also go for McCrazy. This is the perfect storm for repugs to keep the white house for the next four years.
Kristol's an idiot & a confirmed liar! Re: HRC ~ boo frickin' hoo, besides, you don't get respect you earn respect.
The bad news for HRC, she won't get my vote. The good news, she won't need it, after hearing some right wing radio recently & limbo & hannity going after mcbush, either Obama or HRC will easily beat mcbush in the general election imo, he's that bad of a candidate!
Did I mention Kristol's an idiot.
37 YourMom
Actually Hillary has been running a very traditional Democratic run for office, winning large states strong with unions, blue collar, women and older voters.
Older voters traditionally are more reliable in turning out than the younger voters.
But she was blind-sided by states jockeying so fiercely to have the first primary and caucuses, and fully expected the nomination to wrap up well before Texas as customary.
Although Obama seems to have run a more Howard Dean 50-state approach, in many ways he echoes the Rove tactic of sweeping up a large number of smaller states.
diamondmc @ 42:
Recent polling would seem to indicate otherwise. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/ap_on_el_pr/presidential_race_ap_pol...
ysbaddaden @ 9:
perhaps they would rather beat obama because he can be beat!
That these people are becoming so blatant and transparent is an indicator of how bad things are. The neo-cons have planned for Clinton to be the Democratic candidate. The fact that Bush himself tapped her as the Dem's choice should have been an alarm that the Republicans were up to something and they don't care if you know it. The supreme arrogance!
I still think they were behind Kerry's nomination in '04. Now he's tied himself around Obama's neck.
Yeah yeah, hand me my tinfoil hat and I'll wear it proudly. The only thing that will surprise me now will be if we have a President Barack Obama inaugurated in January with all this skullduggery going on.
what liberal media is he talking about? CNN? Huffington Post? FOX?
They don't want Obama to be the candidate because they can't hurl race bait at us because they'll be labeled bigots. It'll be tougher to slur Obama because one whole area of attack is out of bounds.
This clown and the entire us media should be under criminal investigation.
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But to bring it back to krystol(nacht) they're so used to using Hillary as the boogy-man, the hillarycare for example, they want to stick with the boogy-man they know, hoping that will help them retain office, or like ray gun, go directly to the people if they find themselves at logger-heads.
Obama is more like the substitute teacher who wants to be liked, Hillary more like your mom when you know you're in trouble.
She'll probably use your middle-name too
And make your name sound like a swear.
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donviti @ 2:
Don't hold yer breath
[Deleted. Off topic. Please move this discussion to the Midday Open Thread. Thanks-Sitemonitor]
Peter G @ 23:
right on !
Smedley Valet @ 48:
Nonsense, the 527's on both sides will be slingin' mud like at no time in history, the race issue being the main theme for reps. The internet will rule this election imo. On the up side for the dems, mcbush will lose the debates & the dems have caught up & passed the reps in the mud slingin' dept. :)
Maybe Kristol can spend some time talking about this...
The Department of Homeland Security's National Exercise Program (NEP),
the nation's overarching homeland security exercise program, will conduct a combined exercises in May 2008
http://www.fema.gov/about/training/exercises.shtm
I like to think back to the good ole days, not so long ago, when the vitriolic attacks were reserved for the right wing candidates, the neocons and their puppets. Although neither Clinton nor Obama were my first choice they are both good candidates. Those persons who delight in spewing groundless attacks against either candidate are foolish. It doesn't matter which one is the nominee if they can't rely on the support of all democrats they will lose.
Peter G @ 58:
Clinton is a great candidate
if you're Joe Lieberman
Peter G @ 45:
You believe msm polls? I am a member of a multi-racial motorcycle club with members all over the country and from what I hear, brothers and sisters will not vote for Hillary if she steals this from Obama. No democrat can win if most of the black vote stays home. Rush Limpballs knows this and that is why he is trying to get repugs to vote for Hillary. This is why the msm keeps the Rev Wright issue alive by playing off the fears of some white americans. Rove and the rightwing nut jobs know they can't lose against Hillary, but there scared of Obama.
Peter G @ 45:
Not much of a difference when you don't cherry-pick: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/
Plus, such poll numbers do not in any way refute the well thought out specifics of diamondmc's comment, as to the groups that will fall of if Hillary fanagles a win.
But that's totally unimportant. Head-to-head polls mean next to nothing with no Dem candidate getting the nomination yet (and so more division in the party), and most significantly, no running mates. Once the Dems choose, and once the running mates are chosen, THEN the head-to-head polls will matter, a little.
the Pentagon Suspended the "Military Analyst" Propaganda Program
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/message_force_multipli...
Gosh! What a shock! The right has made NO secret of the fact they want McCain to run against Hillary from day one--the geezer vs. the shrieker! They know if Obama ever had the opportunity to debate this doddering old neo-con hawk, Obama would come away the winner. Hillary cannot win, face it!!! But, let the party that picked John Kerry to run in 2004 fuck things up again!
[Deleted. Off topic. Please move this discussion to the Midday Open Thread. Thanks-Sitemonitor]
Peter G @ 23:
Hmm maybe it’s reverse psychology. They really want McCain to face Obama so they talk up Hillary expecting...
Hillary's pregnant?
They are so playing us and we are so buying into it...
I refer everyone to the story of the scorpion and the frog...
shiloh @ 43:
You don't have to. It's still obvious.
wobbly @ 64:
They don't have the money, due to depressed donations. to damage us, so they are hoping we damage ourselves.
So is it a trick, or a double-trick? The trick being the right supports Hillary because they actually want to run against her (and her VERY high negatives), or (double-trick) are they counting on us to think that, and they support her to drive people to Obama, because they have an ace in the hole against him that we haven't seen (don't underestimate the scumbags on the far right)? In either case, I'm just going to ignore the bastards and support the Democrats, because the G.O.P. is far, FAR worse.
Travis @ 59:
Let's see. Her voting record and stated policies are virtually indistinguishable from Obama's. I guess they're are equally great candidates.
Does Kristol masturbate after every time he congratulates himself on how clever he is?
Bonkers Hussein @ 65:
I think I know that one. A scorpion talks a frog into giving a ride over a pond. The frog makes the scorpion promise not to sting him. When they get to the other side, before alighting, the scorpion stings the frog, who before dying asks, "Why did you sting me? You promised not to."
To which the scorpion responds, "I'm a scorpion; that's what scorpions do."
The only trouble is who's really is the target of the repug's scorpion?
I don't think there playing with the Democrats nomination to influence it, but to confuse and enrage, thereby making us looked unhinged to the voting populace.
Ultimately the public is the frog.
I don’t think they're playing with the Democrats nomination to influence it, but to confuse and enrage...
Lonny @ 72:
No. Self-congratulation IS masturbation for Kristol.
to the repubes..
hillary = g.o.p. fund raising gold mine and inspiration for higher then expected
repube voter turn out. the hate hillary voters are more inspired than the
we love mcsame voters. and to all the repube talking dickheads she means
higher raitings for their rants on radio and fox.
obama = unknown charismatic candidate turning out larger crowds than ever seen
before, new and unknown voters, more money to finance campaign than
mcsame will ever hope to raise.
the repubes know they are in huge trouble when it comes to retaining the white house so being true to their nature, they are more interested in the benefit of themselves over any and all concerns. self before fellow man and country could be their motto. isn't rush living proof of that.
dennis @ 62:
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Hillary won't kick them out on their butts. They are all deathly afraid that Obama will forever destroy the fear-reality-distortion field that they use to suck the life out of us.
The republican game plan is to paint democrats are disorganized losers. So they push the notion that the democrats screwed up and nominated the "wrong" candidate. When Hillary was inevitable that meant promoting Obama. So they flooded the airwaves with jabber about how the democrats were sure to win in November, if they nominated Obama. They expected to spend all summer talking about how the democrats shot themselves in the foot, and how left-wing extremists control the party and forced a Hillary nomination.
Well, they made a bad call.
Now that Obama is inevitable they are playing up Hillary for exactly the same reason.
There is no substance here. It is all about establishing a media narrative and playing the spoiler.
Its a shame how low the republicans have sunk, actively sowing discord in the democratic party and worst part is that we are falling for it
William (The Bloody Kristol) has been absolutely wrong about everything political for the last 7 and a half years (that is only as far back as I have been keeping track). So if he says Hillary is the better candidate then that means the exact opposite. Obama is the best candidate. But we all know that anyway.
Hillary was a republican in collage and still is at heart. What better way to win than to stack the deck? So if she wins the presidency they (the republicans) still control!
What seems to be the big secret here?
Anybody with one eye and half a brain realizes that these neocon pundits are touting HRC because they KNOW that she can be beaten in the general election. They also know that Obama cannot be beaten against McCain in the general election.
quit this starry eyed astonishment that these jokers are touting HRC. GET FREAKING real!!!!!
HRC is splitting the democratic party and the repulsives know it and are using that against Obama.
Wake the hell up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get MSM out of the picture and use the net to do what needs to be done.
Unfortunately, I work around a lot of Republicans, and they feel that McCain would fare better against Hillary, and som most of them want Hillary to win. It's just more republican tampering with election and the popular vote.
it's been evident for quite some time now, the right wants hillary as the dem candidate. i've tried to discern why but i go around in circles and always come up with the obvious, she would be easier to beat in the runoff than obama. not sure what their thinking there is other than she is more vulnerable, but both are articulate and very intelligent. they would make mincemeat of mcsame and as for GW, were he in the debate, he would illustrate to the world even more that he is blubbering idiot. Papa bush and barbara, you must be proud, you've raised quite a village idiot there. the only thing i can say to that is that the acorn never falls far from the tree. right, beautiful mind barbara? or better yet, you can fool l me once, but ...well...hell, you can't fool me again. right, Brownie? and this dweeb leads the nation. no wonder we're on the verge of collapse.
So Bill Kristol give props to H. Clinton eh... HORSESHIT! I know what this is all about... It is about the neocons perception of who the dem most likely to fall to McCain would be, then prop up that weaker dem choice... It's a twofer in that if people aren't paying attention it tends to confuse and muddle the opposition strategy... FUCK Bill Kristol... IF he's for her, that's just another reason for me to view her candidacy with some skepticism.... Not that I won't go ahead and vote for her should she win the nomination. The thing is to keep ones eye on the big picture and objective which is to run the republicans out of D.C. on an electoral rail... IF we libs, moderates, independants and other progressive souls can keep that objective foremost in mind... All the rest of these neocon stratagems becomes moot and so much easier to see thru and ignore.... Just remember to vote dem in November whomever that is, and let the repubs have their little jerk circle all by themselves... That includes the GOP MSM fanbase as well...............................JD
They know they can beat Hillary, even with as weak a candidate as McCain.
Why not? She's running as McCain's running mate now. She loves the guns he loves, she loves the gas tax cut that will leave us without money for infrastructure, as much as he does. She even uses the same words that he does. Hillary Clinton is running as the democratic version of McCain, and lets face it, if the country wants to vote for a McCain, they will vote for the real deal, not the cheap immitation.
I've read these comments in awe. Come on people. Hillary is DLC. Republicans wrapped in blue and you think that they don't want her as the candidate against McCain? It's a win/win situation for them if she wins. Two Republicans running for Prez. I don't care what her voting record is. I see her public record. She lies. Constantly just like a Republican. She throws everything at her own party rival, while throwing nothing but praise at McCain. It is no wonder the "sniper fire" incident gets and got very little mention. One mustn't take that glow off the Clinton halo.
Anyone who believes a word Kristol has to say, is stupid...oh wait there are no stupid people, just misinformed. ;P
ysbaddaden @ 17:
based on what evidence
His Grandpa Machiavelli would be so proud.
... the only "groundless attacks" i've ever seen are directed at OBAMA and his backers... the clintonistas are rabid...
...
and, i always like this story:
Hey, you boys know about the frog that got ate by the eagle?
Here's this big old eagle, swooped down and gobbled up this little frog, see.
And the little frog is inside the eagle and they're way up in the air.
The frog is working his way back in the eagle, working his way back...
and he looked out the eagle's ass and says, "Hey, eagle! "
He says, "How high up are we?"
And the eagle says, "Well, we're up about a mile, two miles."
And the frog says: "Well, you wouldn't shit me now. would you?"
http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/m/mccabe-and-mrs-miller-scrip...
Peter G @ 23:
OK, gotta respond. My recollection is that this isn't a "Democratic web site," first off. Second, she hasn't devoted her "lifetime" to the Democratic party, even if it were.
Finally, you don't "get" respect just for being a party apparatchik. Candidates earn their respect with their constituencies. Clearly, Sen. Clinton has earned yours. She hasn't earned mine. Yes, she's a 60-year-old...she's been around the block. But she's done a lot of things I don't like--her coziness with corporations and her completely misguided votes on the war in Iraq and the designation of Iran's army as a terrorist group among them. I find her to be dishonest and full of her own liabilities; I'll have to be damned desperate to vote for her--still not sure I can as much as I despise the Republicans.
*That's* why she hasn't earned my respect. Among a long list.
The Republicans want Hillary to win because they win even if she wins the presidency. Really, it's a guaranteed four more years of politics as usual. I'm not saying Obama will be a sweeping revolution, but he's going to change a lot of the rules of the game and the same old corporate interests will have to figure out a new way to buy their favors -- especially the consolidated mainstream media.
she is a better candidate than he is.....
translation....the clintons know how to run dirtier campaigns
by the way, william the bloody lied at least twice in his statements
obama still leads in the popular vote, unless you consider michigan, where hillary was the only name on the ballot
and hillary didnt win by 10 points...she won by 9.2, in a state where she was once leading by 20
the right wants hillary....she is the only candidate that can energized the base to vote against
AbsolutTBomb @ 3:
The "right" wants Hillary to win because they own her. A McCain/Clinton election is a win-win. Apparently Obama isn't as reliable.
fedupto57 @ 90:
Based on how cheap her going away party was when she resigned from Walmart's Board of Directors.
Hillary is owned by the corporatists, they wanted a win on either side. Having failed to win the nomination, now she is a suicide bomber.
Rusty Shackleford @ 38:
As has already happened.
Its the same slimy cynical manipulation and impedance of the democratic process that this party of criminals have been happily indulging themselves in for years.We are heading straight into the dirtiest campaign in history.
Good, one more reason to kick this corporate whore to the curb she so rightly deserves.
The Head Neocon, stumping for HRC. Wow. That's the 6th sign of the 'pockyclips, isn't it?
Does this sound any alarms at all for the HRC supporters? Nah.
Richard Mellon Scaife? Nah.
Murdoch? Nah.
Nope, nuthin' to see THERE, nope.
At what point will the HRC supporters realize that she's become exactly what we progressives are supposed to hate?
Glenn Greenwald:
"The inanity of all of this is manifest. When the Right and the media assumed that Hillary Clinton was the inevitable nominee and that Obama couldn't win, the Right just "loved" Obama, and people like The New Republic's Jason Zengerle marveled at what they actually believed was the astonishing (and real) phenomenon that no "conservative writer [is] able to withstand Obama's charms." Now that it appears that Obama rather than Clinton will likely be the nominee, that has, quite predictably, reversed itself completely: suddenly the Right hates Obama and has great respect for Hillary Clinton.
And, as always, the media follows along exactly the same path. When it looked to them as though Hillary would win, the media hated her and was largely deferential to Obama. Now, the reverse is true. As Thomas Edsall wrote last week: "In a blink of an eye, the media has jumped ship from the Obama campaign and become a crucial Clinton ally." One can trace the media's complete reversal regarding Obama to exactly the moment when it appeared he would actually win. "
kasinca Says:
More blabbering from the chickensh!t, chickenhawk, warmongering, coward. Why does this useless specimen get space?
Silly..because he's a pure example of a - chickensh!t, chickenhawk, warmongering, coward.
Don't forget their fear of having a black man in the white house.
Travis Says:
..Of course at this point, the Neutral Progressive Blogosphere™ has to keep pretending that Hillary and Obama are exactly the same people with slightly different names. Keep on reachin’ for that rainbow, dudes.
I'm sure this is a dead thread, but from this little backwater of "Blogosphere" I'd only say that I don't see a huge difference between the two. I prefer Obama but my favorites have long bowed out of the race. I'll vote for the Dem that clinches the nomination but I'm not perfectly thrilled with either of them.
As for Neo-con Kristal he's doing what he can for the Republican agenda. It's his job and what he's paid to do. And I think the main job of 90% of the corporate "news" hacks(which I don't watch).
Any Democrat that accepts praise from the likes of Kristol without condemning Kristol has no spine and no Democratic bones. Uh Oh, Family's here, gotta go. Can't even finish the thread....gone..
1. Where would HRC be in these elections if she were just Hillary Rodham? Probably nowhere.
This is to address a ridiculous claim (by William Kristol, NYT, April 28, 2008) that Hillary Clinton is a better candidate than Obama (and that his advantage is only in having a better campaign team). The claim is ridiculous because her camping reflects her (as Obama’s campaign reflects him). The campaign demonstrates her political skills, her ethics, and her ability to sit around the table and LEAD – or not. In all of these elements she has not presented herself as a shining personality. How is it, one might ask, that she manages to be the second in the race? Well, most likely she would be nowhere if she were just Hillary Rodham. She started the campaign with an already widely known name (something that plays important role among older voters). To many the name Clinton is a synonym for economically good times, and some think (wrongly) that “getting two for one” is going to be an advantage. That is the core of her success. She failed the leadership and financial abilities test with her own campaign. Not only that her campaign owes her 5 million but she lent that money to her campaign with interest. And she claims she would be good for the country! Obviously, she is not good in assembling a team, not good with finances in general, but she is good about making sure that she personally is well off even when it goes at the expenses of her own campaign! How can one expect her to be good for American people? She is not good to her own comrades.
The other significant factor working for her are views that being rude, dishonest, not being bind by scruples, playing dirty, etc., only means being tough/strong. Certainly, she is high in being that kind of “strong” candidate, unfortunately. (Position that everything is allowed when one is in competition is a grave flaw of the society that yet needs to be addressed, separately).
My answer about Hillary's hard core liberalism is in comment 40, if y'all care to look it up.
Additionally, during Monicagate there were two apologies. The first one Bill gave was more combative, and was written by Hillary herself. The second one Bill wrote, and was more conciliatory, and was initially going to be his first one, but Hillary convined him to use hers.
And example of Bill's reaching across the aisle was defeating Bob Dole, and then conferring a medal to him in a White House ceremony afterwards. His first two years in office some writers considered unfocused, he was working on too much, micromanaging, and worse, giving everyone a turn to speak on the issues. This is according to various profiles in periodical like Newsweek, and PBS documentaries.
Besides Hillary's healthcare reform attempts were her championing children's rights. That sounds like a safe subject for a gubernatorial's wife issue, as well as a presidential one, but it involved such things as taking the interest of a parentless child ahead of the state who might for example prohibit gays from adopting or single parents from adopting. This gave children a voice in the family courts, and not just their own parents who might also be a defendent, or a court appointed parentis patriae. Additionally, it helped make it easier for CPS agency to take custody of children away from abusive parents, and schools using excessive corporal punishment.
Of course conservatives dismissed all this as merely anti-spanking butting-in.
Working with women's issues, such as leaving an abusive spouse and father of their children, helping them re-set up their lives added to her Hillary's credentials. While Bill taught school, or ran for the governership of Arkansas it was her earnings as a lawyer that made that possible.
So with just a small sample of the sort of work she's done she touched on children's rights, gay rights, women's rights, as well as almost a role reversal in income disparity with her own husband. She was organizing people and issues while a younger Obama was stll merely organizing a ball game at a local park.
Well the walking talking turd said it all didn't he ? This time at least he wasn't lying or completely full of sheet . There is no doubt about it , the Repugs want Clinton because she cannot win and they've actually been sabotaging the Democratic party's nomination process voting for and blogging for Clinton and smearing and trashing Obama . Just another reason to vote Obama !#102 PINKOBAIT is right , Obama has to defeat the media now too , not just the Repugs and Billary .
Hey Kristol, yeah you, joker face...lets give 'credit' where 'credit' is so clearly deserved: you are a war monger, you and that unhinged ideologue, Norman Podhoretz. and many others i'm sure. you and that old fool Pod have, like Rasputin, whispered your sweet nukings to Bush about Iraq and now about Iran to bush and also to McCain. you have no shame. you clearly don't care now nor have you ever cared for any regular Iraqis who've suffered in their country because of the U.S.'s reckless and ill-planned invasion and now occupation. no Bill you dont care. you only care about all things Jewish and Israel. Israel, like the US, are just two countries on this large planet. we all occupy the same space, all of us human beings, this earth that is. one country or two don't have the right to cause trouble (invade pre-emptively) any other countries without just cause (no WMDs). look at the mess youve caused in Iraq. you still sleep well i imagine, but i dont know how you can. you are a failure of a human being, and if something happened to you, i would smile all day after hearing about it.
Peter G @ 23:
Well, let's just let the Republicans play with our heads until we commit suicide. For my part, I'm not second guessing who the Republicans want but am voting my convictions. I will not vote for someone who would try to pass off the colossal sniper fire lie on the American people, nor am I voting for someone who shoots from the hip just like John McCain and answers a question about what she would do if Iran nuked Israel by saying she would "obliterate" them. I would not vote for a candidate who is using 527s against a fellow Democrat. That woman has no judgment and no character, and it doesn't make a difference to me who the Republicans want.
The news today has been disheartening for alot of reasons. Democrats are still using the barenuckle boxing rules where the Republicans are using martial arts that is using the oponents force against them. 2004 all Dean had to do what allow his voice to crack into a mic and they got half of the DNC to use it to destroy him. The other half was talk radio. Then, just like in 1992, Get the gay rights faction to fuck up John cary making gay marriage the central issue of the campaign. Clinton got his presidency trashed first with don't ask, don't tell. Now they have blown all their currency on the gay thing and need another issue to hang the Democrats with. And as usual we walk right into it. Hillary supporters, who are totally not racist at all happily point to all the new polling data that all the Stupid white men that they have so reviered over the last two primarys will never ever vote for a black man. Win by any means necessary which is exactly what the Republicans want. And the only thing the boneheads on thsi sight can do is come up with dopey plays on words like 'repugs" or Faux news or bloody kristal. Let us first accept that these fuys are a hell of alot smarter than we are. We are evidentially dumber than a bag of hammers. Don't believe me? Go to a code pink rally. Everyone just chill out and stop fighting with eachother. Barak obama is obviously a really smart smaart guy who is smart enough to surrond himself with other smart guys. Don't forget the man according to the "never wrong, knows everything political consultant Henk Shienkof didn't have a chance. our smart people aren't real smart. their smart people aren't tied to any idea of being honest. Lets be a little more prudent. Somebody shut bill clinton up before he throws any more bombs. Make sure that the right wing throw the bombs not us.
Hillary is running as a Republican, remember. But she is a "light" Republican so all the "security" and "3 a.m. call" branding she's trying to claim will all be trumped by a McCain candidacy. If Hillary were to win the nomination, she'd be knocked out by McCain on all the issues she's tried to use against Obama. And Clinton is the most firmly rooted Establishment figure in the Democratic party. McCain can run on his (false but effective) "maverick" image against a Clinton establishment character.
Kristol and Rove and Limbaugh and the others all know that McCain only stands a chance against a Clinton. And that McCain is getting a free ride these days, while Clinton does the Republican dirty work against Obama herself.
One cannot also forget Hillary's attempt at an UN International Women's conference while Bill was president. It was considered so threatening that the Vatican and some Islamic countries forbade any discussion of birth control or abortion. So they held their meetings unofficially dealing with a phalanx of issues affecting women.
Some times more advances are accomplished quietly and behind the scenes than in front of adoring crowds.
Hillary lived by the chimp and she will die by the chimp. The Iraq War Resolution was her kiss of death. Did you catch Britt the shit Fumes Humes in that last clip trying to cut in with some wisdom?
What I want to know about Kristol is ---Where does He keep his boyfriend hidden ??????
When Hillary said she'd incinerate 70 million Iranians, Kristol fell in love.
It doesn't hurt that she's deep into the DLC, neo-con central of the Demo party, and has warmongers among her key foreign policy advisors, including Madeleine Albright, and Sandy Berger. Her most influential advisor, Richard Holbrooke was a loud booster of the Iraq invasion, the bombing of Serbia, etc. etc. Kristol knows whats up. Hillary has received more defense money, and right wing pro-Israel money than any candidate in either party. She might put some lipstick on that ugly pig of our foreign policy, but she won't change anything--the military-industrial-terrorism complex won't miss a beat with Clinton.
The GOP certainly does not want to battle aginst Obama in the GE. He's not their usual-style target. They've been preparing their smear campaign on Hillary, since 2,000, just in case. I'm sure it's extensive and gory. They can get all the sanctimonious fucktards to line up behind it, in lockstep, as "good-little-citizen-patriots". They've already used up "Reverend Wright" and "bitter" on Obama, and have nothing left. The closet Muslim meme and sleeper cell crap is a little too sci-fi for most Americans.
73 ysbaddaden Says: Bonkers Hussein @ 65:
Re: the frog and scorpion fable. Hillary reminds me of a scorpion. She'll do whatever it takes for her to win. She's allowed to, but... I wouldn't deny her the right. I hope it doesn't damage the party or GE too much.
I do believe Kristol was trying to be snarky...in his own twisted and perverted sort of way.
"Damned with faint praise" seems to aptly describe Kristol's lame attempt.
AbsolutTBomb @ 3:
Just fyi:
http://www.bartcop.com/the-coming-attacks.htm
Not since the Mad Hatter's Tea Party has such a motley collection of dim-wits gathered.
Nor should she get any respect. She and her hubby are a couple of grifters trying to game America. Kristol is out to lunch.
this is when an f.u. is not just a fried man unit.
f.u.13
8 I like Pie Says: Why are Neo-cons campaigning for Hillary Clinton?
I have to wonder whether or not the Neo-cons and the Centrist Democrats have some kind of secret power sharing agreement.
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You mean just like they do now??
Ok, I finally watched it. What a macabre spectacle that bunch is. What is with that chicks eyes? And for a moment there, it looked as though the ever-constipated-Hume felt some movement in his bowel.
Anyhoo... They totally want Hillary cuz they know they can smear here with all the Clinton baggage and stir up indignant "moral" outrage, and then some-- "she's shrill", her crying, her lying, and "BJ Bill" back in the White House with more interns-at-hand-- let's not forget the hate-on millions have for Bill. Enough to roil the average-American-pinhead to vote McSame, and get Cheney's 50 + 1 = absolute dictatorship, for 8 more years.
PS They also backhanded Obama, by saying he's too nice, and he's too calm, (and hence too sweet, and mamby-pamby), meaning he can't make decisions or broker deals!!!! Basically, "he's ineffectual."
It is not at all surprising that Far Right Neocons come out in favor of Hillary, thus reveling her true nature.
Note the coincidence of policy between AIPAC, the Neocons, Lieberman, Bill Kristol, and Senator Hillary Clinton. Clinton and Lieberman are quick to agree with AIPAC on the necessity to invade Iran. They are all puppets of AIPAC and not independent thinking representatives of their constituents. They can not be counted on to speak the truth but they will speak policy dictated by AIPAC, hence the comments of Lieberman on Obama.
Recently, Senator Hillary Clinton addressed an AIPAC gathering in New York City where she was not shy about threatening Iran.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvuzMWcz0kU
The Neocon movement is basically a Jewish founded group based on Leo Strauss political philosophy out of university of Chicago. http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html
AIPAC was instrumental in leading the US into war with IRAQ, and they have now set their sights on IRAN.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-arthur-waskow/aipac-iran-presidenti_...
It seems unfair to me that a small minority of the US population should dictate such a large proportion of US military spending toward their own ends. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
It seems AIPAC can take much of the credit for spending the US into a deep hole with total disregard for the consequences of said spending on the US economy.
I wish Israel would foot the bill for their defense themselves.
I wish there were more dialog on this topic to get the truth circulating about our motives for war.
This situation has potential for huge backlash against the Jewish population.
As our economy tanks, the foreclosure rates rise and people get wind of multi trillion in military spending to protect Israel as they are put out of their own homes, history could start to repeat itself.
I do not wish for that, I wish for dialog to diffuse a potentially explosiveness of situation.
I wish to caution the Jewish community from pursuing a reckless and potentially self destructive course of action.
I am very grateful to j-street http://www.jstreet.org/ for trying to balance AIPAC.
Finnigan @ 5:
You mean his honesty in backing Joe Lieberman?
His honesty in refusing to back an Alito filibuster?
His honesty in taking large chunks of dollars from Exelon Corp., then voting FOR GW's energy bill giving that exact corporation massive tax breaks?
His honesty in praising Reagan and Rumsfeld, while dissing Bill Clinton?
His honesty in being "Barry" Obama, running from his real name?
His honesty in claiming to be AGAINST the Iraq invasion while voting FOR funding it every single time except the last?
Or, you must mean how he claims to support civil liberties, yet votes in FAVOR of the Patriot Act?
Now don't come back and say how that's OK because Hillary is equally dirty, a lame diversionary tactic of the Obama cultists, you made a statement that Barry O is independent and honest, he's far from it. It has nothing to do with Hillary.
foolme1ns @ 87:
Sorry to burst all the Barry Hussein Obama bubbles, but Hillary beats McCain handily, Barry does not. Check out the new polls. Rev. Wright sealed his fate yesterday. She now will win in Indiana and upset him in NC. It's all over, Bare.
GMA had Newt Gingridge on this morning rehashing all the obama crap (Wright, radical friends etc) I couldn't watch long enough to see if he promoted Hillary as I was in the bathroom pukeing
Saloum @ 129:
Not quite, Hillary's ahead of McCain by 9% with a MoE +/- 3-4 pctg pts.
Although I think Wright's babbling is hurting Obama it's still 7 months until November.
And sometimes the surest way to get supporters to turn out at the polls is to tell them it's over.
Of course now we have to watch the states to see how they react to the recent Supreme Court decision on ID's before voting. The timing is so close, that they could depress turnout of the recently registered.
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