More reaction to the Indiana Voter ID ruling by the Supreme Court: Video Update
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Blitzer: the background, the enormity of what the Supreme Court has decided today.
Kelli: Now that the Supreme Court has upheld Indiana's law it basically gives a green light to other states to pass similar legislation which of course would be just in time for the November election.
CNN covers the newest abominable decision by the Roberts Court. There are 20 other states that were waiting for this ruling so they can pounce and purge the voting rolls. Remember, there was no evidence of any voter fraud---Voting is a "right," not a privilege and I don't mean as in Scalia's Right Wing perceptions. I knew the shift to the right with Roberts and Alito would produce this kind of decision. I'm working with many others to see how we can handle this ruling properly. I will do my best. More opinions are starting to flow in now on this horrendous decision by the Roberts Supreme Court.
The ACLU responded: ACLU Disappointed With Supreme Court's Voter ID Decision
"Today's decision minimizes the very real burden that Indiana's voter ID law places on tens of thousands of eligible voters who lack a government-issued identification while accepting at face value Indiana's unsubstantiated claim of voter fraud," said Ken Falk, Legal Director of the ACLU of Indiana and lead counsel on the case. (more articles below the fold)
PFAW: People For: Supreme Court Won’t Stand Up For Voters
The Supreme Court today rejected a challenge to Indiana's voter identification law, the most restrictive in the country, despite the fact that the law could block access to the ballot box for thousands of citizens.
“The Supreme Court has abdicated its role as the defender of our democracy. The Justices should clear the path to the ballot box for voters, not help block the way,” said Kathryn Kolbert, President of People For the American Way Foundation. “Voter ID laws are intended to suppress voter turnout. If voter ID advocates were truly interested in fixing our election system, they'd be working to make elections verifiable and end deceptive practices that keep people from the polls...
The Supreme Court’s decision is disappointing. The Court’s decision today places obstacles to the fundamental rights of American citizens—especially the poor, the elderly, and individuals with disabilities—to participate in the electoral process. Having American citizens pay for underlying documents needed for an identification card and travel to distant motor vehicle locations for processing hinders—and diminishes—their right to vote.
The right to vote is a foundation of our democracy. American citizens who wish to vote must be able to do so.
Michael Froomkin: Crawford v. Marion County Election Board: An Electoral, But Not Doctrinal, Nightmare
But while the opinion may be an electoral nightmare, three things keep it from being the doctrinal nightmare that it could have been: the procedural posture, some of the facts, and the fractured nature of the opinions. Unfortunately, this case is going be spun as holding that “Voter ID laws are constitutional” when in fact it holds only that they are not per se unconstitutional.
ACSBlog: Voter ID Laws: Preventing Fraud or Suppressing the Vote?
On October 23, 2007, ACS hosted a panel at the National Press Club, where leading experts discussed how voter photo-ID laws impact our democracy. The U.S. Supreme Court will hear argument on Wednesday, January 9, 2008, in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, which will examine the constitutionality of requiring voters to show photo ID.
AdamB says: SCOTUS Upholds GOP-Pushed Voter ID Laws.
dday: About That Voter Registration Drive
And don't miss Digby's: Validating Voter Suppression
I have been writing about this since before I started this blog. It's at the heart of the Florida debacle in 2000, where they illegitimately purged voter rolls and relied on arcane interpretations of the rules to deny people the fundamental right to have their votes counted. It goes all the way back to the reconstruction period and has continued right up to Ohio in 2004.
The Supreme Court has just legitimized the notion that "voter fraud" is a problem when, in fact, every study shows that it simply does not exist in any systematic way and that the voter disenfranchisement that results from such laws is a far more serious problem...read on
Conservative judicial activism!
I don't see where the problem lies with asking someone to have identification present. There's really no excuse to not have it.
These pigs will be shoving corporate fascism down our throats for the next 30 years! Get use to it!
Long after the neocons are a footnote on histories trash heap of elected government, these vile bastards will be keeping the 26% interests alive and well.
Tar and feather the lot of them.
Palooka @ 2:
Unless the state plans on giving them for free to people who would be considered poor, then these types of laws amount to little more than a poll tax, and those are unconstitutional.
Palooka @ 2:
There are plenty of good reasons not to have a photo ID. Not the least of which is that they cost money. There is as yet no law forcing any american to have a government issued ID. And if the Democrats favored one the wingers would cry that we were tryingregister their handguns by doing so.
The law mandating a government issued ID is a backdoor means teast. In the past such means testing was considered unconstitutional. But that was before the Supremes became an arm of the Republican party.
Palooka @ 2:
Government IDs cost money - I agree with Bushflipflops - this is the equivalent of a poll tax, which is not only unconstitutional but also bullshit.
What's wrong with showing your ID at the voting booth?
That would stop voter fraud on all sides of the political spectrum.
I'm voting Democratic this election year most likely. But you should have to show a valid ID when you vote.
Just go ahead and get the microchip in head and the barcode your arm , cattle. I don't know what you guys are so mad about. You need voter I.D. How else will the Diebold machines know which votes to throw out?
Ok, so then churches, unions, student groups etc. band together to help people get the proper ID's. And if this mobilization helps spread a Democratic message, all the better.
thinking about it, the states are in for a rush on their respective license office, tying up these already congested bureaucratic enclaves.....but thinking somemore...we as Americans don't really vote, or haven't in the past.
the decision has been made and there is no recourse, so we need to buckle down and add yet another item on our list of things to do...get IDs for the poor!! get them registered!!! get them voting!!!
i support legislation that makes voting MANDATORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fixes all this shit!!!
I believe the 6 - 3 ruling information at the end says it all. Our Supreme Court is no longer above politics. Argue all you want, but the votes and nominating administrations says it all.
Shame on us. Democracy is dead in America. And we are trying to bring it to Iraq? What a f*cking joke.
Palooka @ 2:
Actually, there's no excuse for this country not to have AUTOMATIC VOTER REGISTRATION. If we can give a fucking Social Security Number to every baby born here, we can automatically register every eligible voter when s/he turns 18. (Ever tried NOT having a Social Security Number, by the way?)
Not everyone has a photo-id. People who have them tend to think that everyone does. And so many think that everyone can afford them. The same way McCain thinks that everyone can just skip a vacation when times are tough.
Voter fraud is nothing new in this country. Stealing elections is nothing new in this country. But it's not done by the poor folks just trying to cast a vote. It's done by the people already in power trying to prevent votes from being cast.
There are days I think this country is simply doomed. I'll keep fighting, but I'll also have my escape plan ready.
Zinto @ 8:
Take a picture of everyone who registers to vote, and mail the voter cards with the pictures on them. FREE! Then, it at least won't be a poll tax.
Nonsense. Voter fraud comes from the top down. We have enough trouble trying to get people who are eligible to vote actually out to vote. The real fraud in this country comes from preventing those who do go out to vote from casting ballots.
Palooka @ 2:
There is plenty of excuse, if one doesn't drive, there is no need for a driver's license. One is old, one is poor, then one must find transport to the official department, wherever the surrogate id will be found. This is an undue burden.
There is plenty of excuse in this land when being old or poor or both is held to be an unacceptable condition.
Voting is a fundamental right but the Fascists want only their ilk to vote. Are you one of they?
We are required to show a photo ID in Fla. but our driver's license has our photo on it. The photo on my license was taken so long ago that it looks nothing like me today. But the people at the poll take my license, look at it and look at me then proceed to let me vote. The photo means nothing as far as truly ID-ing the person as far as I can tell. It just seems to be done more out of routine than actual ID.
I don't know what a non driver shows for proof.
I'm dreaming of riots at the polls when folk are denied their Constitutional rights !
They will steal the presidency again. Down here in Florida, there will be amendments in the November ballot that deal with the separation of state and church. My point being that this will mobilized the religious fundies and who will they vote for once they're in the booth is not rocket science. Remember what they wanted to do in California, about splitting the college vote, now this deal with the ID, and I now this in FL (I know that this already happened in '04).
Thanks to the Democrats for helping install the Roberts Court. Thanks to the Democrats for the continuing War in Iraq, High Gas and Food prices , erosion of the envrionment ,etc,etc.
What a differen't World we could have lived in had they used the one device the Constitution gives them in upholding the rule of law, Impeachment.
Could Congress quickly pass a law making the Supreme Court decision futile?
The sky is not falling. Before Oregon went to mail in ballots you had to show your ID at the polling place. I thought it was odd that other states didn't require an ID to prove it was the right person voting. The simple solution is making sure that people get the proper identification.
Papers please, where are your papers?
Sieg Heil!
Shannon @ 6:
Where I live it's called a driver's licence. Has photo ID. So does passport. Both cost money, so? I was under the impression that EVERYONE was supposed to carry ID or be charged as a vagrant under most laws.
anneyhussein @ 20:
Doubtful. Although the Court has ruled that voting is a Constitutional right, the states set the qualifications. (By the way, the Constitution does not enumerate any basic right to vote. It only states the bases on which a state may not deny it.)
I suppose Congress could try something anyway, hoping that its law, Constitutional or not, would govern this election. But Bush would veto it.
bobswire @ 19:
It's both parties. They have a duopoly. But all people think to do about it is run a big third-party name for the presidency.
No electoral reform, no change. Ever.
And it's just going to get worse. This decision demonstrates it.
Even electing one of the two Democrats to the White House only postpones disaster for a while.
Palooka @ 2:
If you are elderly, disabled, perhaps on a fixed income, in assisted living, etc. it gets to be a burden to go to DMV. There's probably no excuse for you and me, but if you've ever lived around the so-called 'underclass', then you'd know that their lives are radically different than the lives of the rest of us. Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" to get an idea about living life with very limit resources, near insurmountable obstacles and no support system / safety net.
Voting fraud of the type the bill is supposedly designed to prevent is very, very rare in America. The law is really just a blatant and evil attempt to wipe low-income (and democratic leaning) voters off the rolls. It seems reasonable but it's really about taking away the civil rights of non-conservatives.
I have an older cousin who, when he hears of people involved in particularly despicable - though not necessarily illegal - behavior says, "They should be taken out and shot - prison's too good for them!" The people behind this law deserve no less.
ConcernedCanuck @ 23:
Uh, no.
I'm as liberal as they come but I don't see what this has to do with disenfranchising voters, why don't you just bring your fucking ID with you to vote?? They say it will hurt elderly, well, don't they have to show ID when they pick up their prescriptions? Or open a bank account? Or do ANYTHING at all anymore? And I don't know if I want somebody who is trying to 'hide out' under the law refusing to be identified to have voting power anyway.
ConcernedCanuck @ 23:
I don't think that's true in every state. Think of all the people in cities that don't have drivers' licenses because they can use public transportation. New York City, for instance. Then there are people who are living with other people who don't have drivers' licenses and certainly not passports -- such as many older women who don't drive, people in assisted living communities, etc. Then there are homeless people, living the best they can.
All well and good, the ACLU must have the law on it's side. But why can't you get ID? I just don't get it. If all it took to vote some wanker out of office, one I didn't like, especially if the accusations about all this are accurate (trying to disenfranchise Dem's) I would be sure to get my ID just so as to prove what a failure the effort is. BTW, my state, Utah asks for my ID every time I've ever voted here in the last 11 elections, whether municipal, primary, or general election. Hasn't held me up one bit.
tyler82 @ 28:
Not if you believe what you just typed after your opener...
Rusty Shackleford @ 27:
Really? Guess I live in a third world country because I've seen/known people that were thrown in jail for refusing to provide ID. It is necessary in everything you do nowadays. Hell, you can't even go to the doctor's without ID. Using the excuse of old age, or wealth is just an excuse. How do people on welfare or old age security cash their cheques without ID???
anneyhussein @ 29:
I still don't see the problem, besides extreme cases such as homeless. I would go NOWHERE without ID. You never know what the hell can happen in this world.
ConcernedCanuck @ 32:
Well, you live in Canada, and I guess the law is different there. In America you are not required to carry an ID around with you.
anneyhussein @ 20:
No. Unless they amend the Constitution.
But to the point, voter IDs are the tip of the iceberg. How is a voter who works two jobs and struggling going to find time to go vote? Much less research the candidates and issues? There should be a voting holiday (or half day at least). And if IDs are required, perhaps the state should provide voter IDs free of charge.
Karen @ 24:
I would presume that when the Dems take back control of the Indiana Legislature they could remove the voter ID law without subverting Scalia and Alitos' vague "minimum burden" standard.
Rusty Shackleford @ 34:
I would think proving who you are so you can vote, should not be a problem though. How easy is it to defraud now, if you don't have to prove who you are?
What happens with people who vote absentee ballots?
ConcernedCanuck @ 23:
I assume by your screen name that we both live in the same country, but for some reason you are under the impression that photo ID is mandatory or you will be arrested for vagrancy in Canada. I can assure you there are a whole lot of people in this country that have neither passport or driver's license. No law requires it.
ConcernedCanuck @ 37:
I have no idea. But there have been almost no recorded instances of this type of "voter fraud." It is a phony problem. The Repubs jump on it because the "solution" just happens to involve disenfranchising valid voters who tend to vote Democratic.
Vic @ 10:
Churches, Unions, etc., have got plenty to do as it is. Let the State of Indiana provide the IDs for free, and pay as well for any documents needed to secure IDs (birth certificates, etc.). Let Indiana provide transport to the DMV to those who don't have it - and not through long trips on grungy buses, but by county officials or State Police vehicles. Let the State pay for childcare while these voters are at the DMV. Let the State provide special care for any disabled voters and help with the paperwork for any blind or illiterate voters. Let the state also pay $50.00 to every voter inconvenienced by this law, so as to be sure there is no possibility of 'inadvertent' disenfranchisement. Then the legislators of Indiana can sleep at night, secure in the knowledge that their non-existent voter fraud problem is remedied.
If they want to do this perhaps it could be grandfathered in. Anyone who registers to vote from now on would have a photo ID made on location where ever they registered to vote, just like they do when you get your driver's license. Anyone who registered before that certain date could have other means of ID.
Two things -
It's a giant step toward the national ID/internal passport so beloved by conservatives. This from the part of the political spectrum that once stood for less government control. ROTFL bitterly.
The Supremes have gone from being at the pinnacle of the respected branch of government to being just another gaggle of political hacks.
ConcernedCanuck @ 32:
ps. photo ID is not required to see a doctor in Canada either. I'm not sure where concerned canuck is getting this stuff.
It's not that hard to get a photo ID. You need one to do just about everything else.
I wouldn't be surprised to pick-up a newspaper in the near future and see a headline: "Robert's Court to review Dred Scott decision." How quickly can this country de-evolute under neocon ignorance and stupidity?
I urge all of you In Indiana to voluteer to help any of those that may be in the situation where they have no ID, get some ID.
Just get over it @ 45:
It's not that hard to buy a pair of shoes either, and you need them to do just about anything.
Maybe we should require new shoes to vote. Since it isn't hard to get them.
anncoulterisevil.com @ 35:
I too am upset w/the S/C decision, BUT, as someone before me said..."What's the
big deal when only about 50 percent of eligible, registred voters vote anyway?"
Palooka @ 2:
In otherwords, it wont harm you - so all should be held to your standard.
What if a standard harmed you but not me? Why should I care about you?
These sorts of things are meant to look harmless. Dont assume that people who are more able and knowledgable than anyone on this blog are acting without reason.
Social security card numbers have been a sort of id for a long long time. Try doing anything without your social security card number. Sadly, this is just taking that one step farther.
Just get over it @ 45:
You are being insensitive to those on the margins. Its not that hard - for you - to get a photo ID.
Doggiebobo @ 49:
Over 1,000,000 new registered democrats this year.
anncoulterisevil.com @ 35:
Maybe this is the law Congress should pass, and require it and pay for it on the national level. I think free voter IDs for those who don't have drivers' licenses or passports would be a good idea and not too onerous for the feds to underwrite, though it probably would need to be on a yearly basis. Polling places depend on your address, and you'd have to prove that, too.
Maybe the best solution for those who can't get off work is mail-in voting. Becoming familiar with the candidates and the issues will have to be up to individuals, though.
I omitted from my list a large number of disabled Americans, the blind, those who cannot drive so do not have drivers' licenses. This ruling is going to create mayhem.
Voter fraud by actual voters is a tiny problem. Voter fraud by those who count the votes is a very large problem.
Of course, the Court knows this, but chose to ignore it.
Probably the most politicized Court ever.
This is going all wrong, rigged machines, rigged ballots, rigged ID's.
Gawd, why don't they just dip their finger in purple dye.
pissed off patricia @ 38:
Your answer (straight from the source): "If you are unable or unwilling to present ID meeting these requirements, you may cast a provisional ballot. If you cast a provisional ballot, you have until noon 10 days after the election to follow up with the county election board and either provide the necessary documentation or affirm one of the law’s exemptions applies to you."
In other words, no ticket...no train ride.
And John - you miss (I suspect) the obvious. The court is requiring a method be used to protect something they would argue is not a right in the first place. Not counting votes and requiring protections for voting is inane.
in michigan they send you, to your mail box, or give you at the dmv, a voter registration card, this is needed. they then check this to a list for the location you are voting then cross you off a list, this seems accurate and needs no id as such.
bushflipflops @ 5:
Good point!
Ron @ 53:
Oh, I know that figure is a "guesstimate", and hope it is accurate, but how many of
those new registered Dems will actually go to the polls and vote? If only around 50
percent, that's hardly an impressive number.
me @ 55:
There is a difference. Those who count the votes and create issues with the count is called election fraud. Far more serious and happens more than voter fraud.
How is it people can come to a thread, scroll all the way down, and then post a question that has been answered multiple times?
For most people, it is not a burden to get an id. Yes, you need one to do a lot of things.
But poll taxes are supposed to be illegal. In the mid-20th Century, when states were trying to prevent African American people from voting, they charged a poll tax. And they cried, "Come on! It's not that expensive! You have to pay a few cents for everything else in this world. What's the big deal?"
I doubt we'll ever learn.
ConcernedCanuck @ 23:
Vagrancy laws? Are they enforced by the railroad bulls? Do you live in Hazzard County? Is there a Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane involved? Do they break your bindle-stick in two and send you to the chain gangs? Are you a personal friend of Cool Hand Luke's? Is the Walking Boss an important person in your life? Do you fall asleep dreaming of the 'Big Rock Candy Mountain?'
Apparently this may be much ado about nothing. The state provides free ID:
"If you do not possess an ID that is acceptable for voting purposes, Public Law 109-2005 requires the BMV to issue an Indiana State ID Card free.
To obtain a free ID card for voting purposes from any BMV branch that issues driver licenses and ID cards, you will need to supply the necessary documentation, as explained on the BMV's Indiana Identification Documentation List web page or print off the "Here's What You'll Need..." flyer to take with you to the BMV. You may also contact the Hoosier Voter Hotline at 1-866-IN-1-VOTE or the BMV at (317) 233-6000."
Indiana Secretary of State
Vic @ 10:
It's not suppose to be a group effort.
Radically Moderate @ 36:
Indiana can do whatever it wants. Of course it can repeal the law.
With this dumb ruling, It made me wonder what other states will do. For example, Some states require OVER seas voters to send a copy of thier drivers licence. But that licence has to be in english and from the state it was issued. What if someone living in the E.U. didint reknew thier state drivers licence but instead has a EU drivers licence from a country where DUH english isint the native tounge?
Did any of those ass clowns think of this? Its really going to make things bad for ppl who will want to vote but cant should the drivers licence shit ideal plan take place. I mean, they already have my eye scan and fingerprints,, wtf more do the morons in the states need? Iam very afraid that the states are becoming much like early nazi germany when Hitler and his band of dillwads got into power and took over ever possible state and fed office and changed the rules to exclude certian citizens!!!
.
Doggiebobo @ 61:
Well we can't make them vote, but I think people are waking up. Obama said the other day that one of those newly registered voters is in her forties.
I can see the police harassing people to show their voter ID, the carting them off because they don't vote.
The moral of this story is we elected a gop President and now this court is full of cons.
Just vote Dem.
Heckuva job "Scalito"
bobswire @ 19:
This shit happened during the repug house.
Voter fraud. There's a Republican joke for you.
How many people have time to run all over town voting more than once? And why would they if they could?
Just another right wing fascist ruling from the Supreme Court.
My father hasn't driven for 20+ years. Should he have to go pay for a driver’s license?
Yeah, and how is he supposed to get to the court house for ID? Drive.
BTW he can walk two blocks to vote but the county court house is 10 miles away.
Ultimately, this whole national conversation is absurd. We should have AUTOMATIC VOTER REGISTRATION. You shouldn't have to go register to vote, and then go get an id to prove you are who you said you were when you registered.
You're born in the United States? Great. When you're enrolled in Social Security as an infant, you should also be enrolled into a computer that automatically registers you to vote on your 18th birthday.
You're naturalized? Great. At the same time, you're entered into that computer, and become a voter (or into that computer if under 18).
And for people so concerned about photo ids, make them freely available to anyone on that list as s/he's naturalized or turns 18.
getalife @ 71:
Actually, that Court full of cons picked him against the will of the people, and it was enabled to precisely because of elections scams like this one.
In our system, you gotta win by more than 55% to take office because of all the real fraud out there committed not by voters, but by the people preventing them from voting.
So, vote your heart out. No electoral reform, no change. Period.
Just get over it @ 45:
It's not that hard for YOU to get a photo ID.
Doesn't the AP tally the votes?
FL is just another corrupted repug little half-wit chimpy state.
I live in Oregon. We fill out a voter registration card. We put it in the mail box. No postage necessary, I might add. Come election time the county mails us a ballot. We fill it out in the privacy of our own home. We drop it in the mail box. On election day, they count the results. It's too easy. Since, we do not have Diebold machines then we do not have to worry about widespread voter fraud.
I think many of you live in states where the politicians DO NOT want you to vote. Instead of arguing about the hoops that you have to jump through to vote; all of you should be asking why your politicians are designing goofy voting systems that keep people from voting. Could it be that they are afraid of the voters? Doesn't sound very democratic to me.
P.S. My drivers liscense expired 2 years ago and I will be voting in the coming primary and in the General Election in November.
tHeHusseinGaMeOfLiFe @ 73:
True. But the Democrats rolled over.
And why wouldn't they? Each is concerned about maintaining 50% +1 in his/her individual state or gerrymandered district. They're not concerned about doing what's right. There's no incentive to vote your conscience in this system.
No electoral reform, no change.
So basicaly ppl that are not Convicted felons twice over, are lumped into the same catagory as such , based on lacking a small piece of plastic? That makes alot of sence.But then again fat tony the mobbed up prick didint make much sence from the start , or did roberts.
Time to get all my 135 points of identification in order , scan and print out and hope they send me a ballot overseas. Think they will need to know the last time i went to dentist and then to my dr and had a rectal exam? or would a picture of the colon be proof enough? I mean seems like the US goverment is breaking alot of things off and sticking em to the average joe and jane!
crazylikeafox @ 74:
Well, there was Ann Coulter.
McCain the Liar @ 22:
Mr. McCain, would you be THE 'PW Songbird' McCain?
And now you know why it was so important to filibuster Robertson and Alito when their nomination came up. Now you know why they were selected and approved by the neocons and the democratic shills who wouldn't be counted to filibuster their appointments. Now you see the extent of the consolidation of power that was planned by Cheney and Rove and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld and all the rest of the cabal.
They're not going anywhere America. There's simply too much money invested to allow any semblance of democracy. Obama? Hillary? Keep watching the Tee Vee and be ready to go "awww,.." when the teleprompter tells you to.
anneyhussein @ 82:
Notice how she's not doing any time for that? So it must be lawful.
When I was in the Navy, the NATO ID card has your picture on one side and fingerprints on the other side. When you walk to enter the base, you are required to show your ID for entrance. I used to hold up the fingerprint side of the ID along with my fingers.
I hated it then and detest this court ruling. Congress better make amends to this injustice.
Phil colins should change the name of his song he had out in the 80s ´´its no fun being a illegal alien´´
to ´´Its no fun being a legal US citizen´´!
joeedugan @ 64:
Wow, we here in the U.S. can tell you reside in that country north of us. Using
fictional characters in Hollywood movies is not really impressing anyone..
tHeHusseinGaMeOfLiFe @ 73:
The House was not responsible, it was up to the Senate where Alito and Roberts could have easily been blocked. We have the Senate Judiciary Committee to thank for this.
What I have trouble is understanding, from the purported position of original intent, how on earth could it be assumed that the framers of the Constitution felt that photo identification was necessary to vote? They didn't have photos then...
:-P
switchgrass @ 65:
I like Pie @ 79:
We have a similar system for our absentee voting in California. Works well. Of course, we can't know who actually counts the votes.
I'm at the point where I think we ought to fill out ballots on clear plastic sheets. Those ballots should be counted not just by hand, but by being placed on an overhead projector at a public meeting broadcast on C-SPAN and the internet.
It's that god damned important, and I don't care how long it would take to count the votes that way. Who cares if we don't know the winner right away?
That's exactly right.
Mine's active. I registered to vote when I changed my address. Did it at the DMV. Didn't get enrolled. Had to fight and appeal like crazy.
Welcome to the 21st Century. America is topped in the democracy department by most of Europe's former monarchies (now Constitutional Monarchies).
John -
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting/intro/intro_a.htm
and
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting/misc/faq.htm
... race and literacy. Anything else and it amounts to an interpretation - originalists wont have that.
Bart @ 90:
Actually back in the days of the founding fathers, you had to have a deed to a certain amount of property in order to vote. The politicians have always tried to find ways to keep the poor masses from voting.
Here's the rub, your ID must exactly match your voter registration. How many people get a new drivers license every time they move across town? I never did. Also, if you put your full middle name on your voter registration but only your middle initial on you ID, you can be challenged and denied your vote.
Snowball @ 89:
What about the rubber stamp congress?
I like Pie @ 94:
The founders' original intent in voting is Constitutionally irrelevant, and even the Original Intent jurists will tell you that. The Constitution has been amended many times since the founders' days.
If we were to go by the founders' intent, only white, male, real estate-owners would be eligible to vote (unless a sovereign state chose to do something else).
In terms of intent, what would matter is the intent of the authors of the more recent amendments.
Besides, ultimately, you're doing your intent backwards. It's not that the framers of any of the amendments would be to require picture ids. It's that there is nothing in the Constitution that evidences an intent to make such a requirement illegal.
Doggiebobo @ 88:
Si, yo soy del Norte. ?Como estas, amigo? Lo siento pero sabe solamento un pequito de Espanol. ?Que pasa en Mexico?
Snowball @ 95:
In Florida the DMV puts a woman's maiden name as her middle name on her driver's license. I had a hell of a time explaining that one time to the man in charge of our voting place.
Snowball @ 95:
Yet another ince thing about Oregon, you send in the same free change of address form, they register you in the right district and send you a nice sticker with your new address on it to put on your ID.
I live in Indiana, the GOP has been busily dismantling the BMV here. Gov. McDaniels closed many local BMV offices in small towns forcing anyone who wants to get an ID to travel to the next large town. I live in a rather large small town and they moved our BMV from the center of town where it was easily accessible to most people over to the far west side where it can take a two hour ride with several transfers by public transport to get there. Once there, you will face an hour long wait to get your ID. You will also have to present proof of your Social Security which means a visit to the Social Security office, anonymously located on the south side, where you will need to present a birth certificate. Obtaining a birth certificate can be almost impossible for many older people. It's really a pretty daunting task to get an ID here now if you don't already have one.
It will take many years to offset the damage that the bush whitehouse and the republicans have done to our justice system,our courts and the rights of american citizens. Indeed we may not recover, and to the humans who will have to live through the madness which we have created,Iam sorry. I can only tell you that a large part of us were not paying attendtion and a large part of us were just fucking stupid. The policys and judgements set by this court will be beyond any lines of reason or justice and we all know who will suffer in the end. The citizens will have to incorperate to get good standing and having done so, are now free to break any law or rule you wish. Would we then have power over our lives if we formed a company with 300 million (less the top 1% of superrich) owners? Hmm---ceo
Off topic, they have nothing to do with approving judicial nominees. That responsibility is with the Senate.
Karen @ 75:
Register you to vote where? There are local elections as well. The point of registering is to determine where you are claiming to live, so you can vote for the people who represent you and not for people who do not.
Under your scenario, the Federal Government is supposed to track my SSN and automatically figure out where I want to be registered when I turn 18? How?
This is the law. We need to get over it and move on. If people can't get themselves to the DMV, then we need to help them get them to the DMV. IDs are free in Indiana, so cost is not the issue.
Shouldn't people have an ID anyway? In case they wanted to cash a check, or enter an airport terminal, or purchase a train ticket, or visit a friend or relative in jail, or enter a bar, or buy a six pack, or any of the other myriad things that require one to establish that they are who they say they are?
POP
When I moved to Georgia, the DMV insisted on listing my ENTIRE birth name from my birth certificate and my married name, four names. Since I became an adult, I have used my middle birth name and my married name, two names. Those two names are on my SS card, my checking account, every other account I've had for the last 40 years. God knows what my name will be before this is all over.
seattle slough @ 104:
Thuggery isnt all bad.
It is no secret that republicans represent the HAVES, not the HAVE-NOTS.
Zinto @ 8:
Provide one instance of voter fraud. And you should have to show a valid ID is nonsense... can you define a valid ID and can you verify it's authenticity???
I didn't think so.
Lotsa new commenters here today with laundry lists of things that require a photo ID.
Curious.
another sad day for Americans thanks to the Supreme Court.
joeedugan @ 98:
No, in fact my note was intended for Concerned Canuck...sorry about that.
I'd bet A. Coulter has an ID for every precinct she votes in.
seattle slough @ 104:
Many countries have automatic registration. Check out: 10 Steps to Repair American Democracy
It's not a huge problem to determine where people live.
Like segregation, Bush's selection, etc. I'll keep discussing, and fighting, thank you.
Well, yeah. In Indiana now, we have to do this.
dothehop@100: The Oregon Vote By Mail system works great. Studies have shown that fraud is not a problem. It's very popular with the voters. Turnout is high. It is also very CHEAP. Conservatives have scared other states from implementing it, because conservatives don't want people to vote - they know that high turnouts favor democrats, so they are ideologically dedicated to disenfranchising as many of their fellow citizens as possible. Congrats to you for living in a state with some ballsy legislators.
Rusty Shackleford @ 109:
The sad fact is that it is already required for a lot of things. That doesn't change the fact that this is just the first step on the road to creating and enforcing a "national ID". Because there simply aren't enough people in prison already.
Palooka @ 2:
This is not true. My 91-year-old mother does not have a valid picture ID. She is in an assisted living facility and has not driven for many years, so she no longer has a license. I am sure that many of her contemporaries are in the same situation.
MargeAggedon @ 115:
Yep. We're like the frog under the heating lamp. Turn up the heat in small increments and it doesn't notice how hot it's getting until it catches fire.
We have all sorts of things for which ids have now been required. What's one more? Even if it is that sacred thing called voting?
joeedugan @ 114:
The Permanent Absentee Voter system here in California works great, too. If you drop your ballot off at the polling place on your way to work, you don't even need a stamp!
Karen @ 117:
Apparently a lot of people feel that voting is no different from buying a six-pack.
Maybe we should demand a photo ID before somebody gets a fair trial. Or exercises their freedom of speech. Since getting an ID is easy, it just makes good sense.
This is not the Supreme Court anymore. It is the Republican Court. I love to see the idiots that vote republican, get screwed in the future. Too bad we all have to pay for their stupidity.
switchgrass @ 65:
Palooka @ 2:
That's 'cause you didn't see any problem with Jim Crow laws either. But yer real stoopid so who gives a fuck what you think?
Zinto @ 8:
Voting is a RIGHT , not a privilege . Why should any American be forced to shell out money for a RIGHT ?
bushflipflops @ 5:
I disagree. All they're asking for is ID, something _everyone_ should have. They're not expensive, and they are issued for several years.
[quote]There is as yet no law forcing any american to have a government issued ID.[/quote]
You're right, there is no law. You are required to show government issued ID when asked by a government official.
[quote]Are you one of they?[/quote]
No. I'm a responsible adult appaled that someone would actually try to vote for political officials and not expect to have proof of who you are.
MCMetal@123: Awesome to-the-point comment.
Palooka @ 124:
Ummm , yes you should.
Voting is considered a RIGHT . Rights are supposed to be taken care of and protected by our government and our Constitution ; the onus should not be on the voter ...........
Palooka @ 124:
No you aren't. At least, not in America.
Rusty Shackleford @ 119:
How about buying a gun, Rusty? Should I need to prove I am not a minor, or a convicted Felon to buy a gun? That is a constitutional right as well, is it not?
I don't work for the US government ; they WORK FOR ME AND THE REST OF US.
Why would I need a government ID for anything ?
seattle slough @ 128:
A gun is a firearm/weapon ; only Diebold counted votes are considered weapons ..........
seattle slough @ 128:
Sure, as long as you are part of a well-regulated militia.
Coulter's Creme Brulee for Roberts, Alito, Scumlia, and Thomas. Check what you shove down your gullets traitors.
Anyone working a diner, or a restaurant, shove a piece of something in there. We will get you you motherfu(kers. The people always win.
Just like the stupid EZ Pass, with ID and electronic voting, we should now be afforded to vote in ANY voting establishment, since the electronic machine can be programmed with ALL the ballots in the region, and therefore, once I present my ID, the machine is customized in the blink of an eye, and I get to vote, while at the Mall, at the office, the doctors, Aunt Rita's anywhere. We are only letting they fu(k us, because we do not DEMAND THAT THE PEOPLE THAT SERVE US, SERVE US!
Zinto @ 8:
I have a valid ID. It's called a voter's registration card. That is the valid voter's ID. I will show that at the polls and I don't need anything else, and I don't feel like taking any more republican fuckings. What part of that can't be understood?
Zinto @ 8:
Because the people less-likely to have an ID are most likely to vote democrat. This is partisan politics at its worst. The Greedy Old Pervs have nothing to run on. They have destroyed our economy, started two wars, and taken our civil rights, molested congressional pages, etc. They know that the only way that they can continue wrecking and molesting is by disenfranchising people who will vote them out.
seattle slough @ 128:
To this libertarian-progressive, owning a gun absolutely is an individual right.
First there has to be a problem before there is a solution, especially a solution that is going to burden a right. Some cities are rampant with gun violence, and they have the power to regulate it.
Voter fraud is not evidenced, and this measure is only going to prevent people from voting.
But hey, if the IDs are guaranteed for anyone who wants one, and can be sent to anyone on the rolls, and the government makes sure that anyone who wants to vote will get an ID, fine.
But we know that's not going to happen. We're just going to add a requirement at the polls, one that a select group of people won't be able to meet, and elections will be affected because of it.
seattle slough @ 104:
It called the BMV here in Indiana, but that's beside the point. I refer you to my comment:
Snowball@101
It isn't so easy to get an ID here in Indiana anymore. I know, been there, done that. They've made it a hassle and a half. Too much for the poor and elderly. That's the point.
Rusty Shackleford @ 131:
Suppose I am. Seriously. (For the record, I am not a gun owner)
My point is the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th amendments collectively guarantee the right of citizens who are of age to vote. Can the government then not require us to establish that we are indeed citizens who are indeed of age? Is not a photo ID the simplist way of doing that?
Karen @ 97:
The Constitution is a long list of things the Government cannot do. Notice how narrow the restrictions of the various clauses are. For example, the list of "disqualifications" for President:
Outside of those, it's wide open.
Article III, section 3:
In other words, Government, do not do THIS, do not do THAT, do not do THE OTHER.
First Amendment:
Don't you dare, Congress. Not, don't you dare, PEOPLE! The Government does not tell people what to do. The Constitution tells Government what NOT to do.
Finally:
If it COSTS MONEY to get an ID, it is by definition a Poll Tax, since you're getting a GOVERNMENT-issued ID.
This will come up again, and this right-tilting sorry-ass excuse for a sloppy bunch of shitty jurists supreme court will get pwned when they try to contradict themselves.
Probably the most repugnant legacy of the Bush era will be the Roberts Supreme Court. Anybody who pretends to be an expert on the constitution should know the most BASIC theory of its construction is that it is a limiter of what the GOVERNMENT can do, not of what the PEOPLE can do, as evidenced by this:
seattle slough @ 138:
Voter registration - which already exists - is the simplest way to do that. Is it not?
bobswire @ 19:
Don't mention it.
Anyone ever seen a DMV office in a really bad neighborhood?
slippy hussein toad @ 139
You're exactly correct. The Constitution is designed to delegate POWERS to government and RETAIN rights for people.
The federal government only has the powers delegated to it by the Constitution. People retain rights whether they are enumerated or not.
State governments reserve the powers not delegated to the federal government. But their powers are not therefore plenary. They have the power to protect our equal rights as people. That's why governments are instituted among people. That's what our founding document says.
When challenged, the burden of justifying a power should be on the government. A person should never have the burden of proving her right. Unfortunately, America wrote one Constitution, but operates according to its mirror image.
Rusty:
Unless photo ID is required to register, then no, it isn't.
seattle slough @ 138:
The government issued ID is a voter registration card. NOTHING ELSE is needed! Get it? When you register to vote at the county election board or as in Oklahoma, the DMV, when you get your license, you are giving your information to a government agency that issues you a Voter's Registration Card. WTF else do you need? You show ID to get your voter's registration.This is just more bullshit on the part of repukes to hamstring the democrats. There seems to be a lot of people who seem to believe in the straw man of voter fraud that doesn't exist in this form. Try Diebold scams and no paper trail and hanging chad bullshit if you want to stop voter fraud.
slippy hussein toad @ 139:
Just my 2 cents on the Supreme Court; they are all political appointees. It's not what you know; but, who you know. The people at the top are never going to be the most qualified. I think sometimes as Americans we try and pretend that the Supreme Court is somehow a beacon of sanity in a sea of political shit.
seattle slough @ 144:
So voter registration + photo ID requirement at the polls is simpler than voter registration alone? How is that simpler?
anneyhussein @ 20:
Congress cant do shit.
hood @ 18:
Yeah, they have that lined up as well as something about gay marriage and property taxes (again). They are covering all the bases this year.
Give Me Convenience @ 30:
I lived in Utah until 2005 and never got asked for my ID. Get this through your head. IT IS NOT FREE! Some people cannot afford to get one. My dad is 78 and had no birth certificate and there wasn't one to send for. This is why it affects older people. He had to go to alot of trouble, time and money to be able to get Social Security.
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