Straight talk? Not on healthcare
By Steve Benen Monday May 05, 2008 2:15pm
For the past several weeks, John McCain and his campaign have been enraged by the emphasis on his willingness to leave U.S. troops in Iraq for up to 100 years, and the audacity of Democrats to tell voters about his views on the issue. To hear them tell it, misrepresenting a rival’s stated policy position — which Dems really aren’t doing — is completely beyond the pale.
Which is odd, given McCain’s habit of wildly misrepresenting the Dems on healthcare policy.
Senator John McCain has been repeatedly suggesting that his Democratic rivals are proposing a single-payer, or even a nationalized health care system along the lines of those in countries like Canada and Britain.
The suggestion is incorrect. While both Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York are calling for universal health care and an expanded role for government, they stop well short of calling for a single-payer plan.
Mr. McCain has made the assertion several times in recent days, even as he and the Republicans have made repeated calls for accuracy on the campaign trail…. Yet on repeated occasions, Mr. McCain, of Arizona, has inaccurately described the Democrats’ health care proposals, using language that evokes the specter of socialized medicine.
On a campaign stop on Thursday, for example, McCain said Clinton and Obama “want a massive government takeover of the health care system in America.” A few months ago, McCain said the Dems offer a “single-payer big government solution.” A few months before that, he insisted that the Dems are offering a “government-run, single-payer system like they have in Canada and like they have in England.”
Now, it’s worth noting that John McCain doesn’t know the first thing about healthcare, other than the fact that he’s enjoyed generous, quality, taxpayer-financed medical care for his entire life. Given his almost humiliating confusion on most policy details, McCain might actually believe his own bogus talking points. He’s not necessarily lying; it’s just as likely that he’s clueless.
Whether his deception is intentional or not is, however, beside the point. After decrying misrepresentations, McCain can’t bring himself to tell the truth about one of the most important domestic policy issues on the mind of Americans.
The McCain campaign’s defense is rather amusing.
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, noted that Mr. Obama had called himself “a proponent of a single-payer health care program” in 2003. And he noted that just this week, Mr. Obama had spoken favorably of systems in Canada and Europe and said, “If I were designing a system from scratch, if I were just starting from zero , I would probably set up a similar system, just a Medicare-for-all plan.”
But Mr. Obama has even stopped short of mandating health insurance for everyone.
Mr. Bounds said that Mr. McCain’s characterization of the Democrats’ plans was completely reasonable. “While their proposals may not outline one to the finite extent, they clearly suggest that the movement toward a single-payer system is in their overall interests,” he said.
I see. The “finite extent” is a terrific euphemism, isn’t it? Perhaps I can translate Bounds’ conclusion from spin to English: “If we consider what the Dems have actually said, McCain is lying. But those are just details. Since we think the Dems’ plans might someday kinda sorta lead to something like single-payer, we feel comfortable lying some more.”
My very favorite quote, though, came when McCain said people in a single-payer system “end up in a two-tiered system where the wealthiest can afford to pay for their own health care and those with low income sometimes wait six or eight months for a routine kind of treatment. And that’s what I’m not going to let happen to the United States of America.”
Right. Of course. We can’t possibly tolerate a “two-tiered system” in which those with more money get more care, and lower-income families get screwed.
No, that would be awful. We can’t let that happen in the United States of America.
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Whether his deception is intentional or not is, however, beside the point. After decrying misrepresentations, McCain can’t bring himself to tell the truth about one of the most important domestic policy issues on the mind of American....
It's like saying when you bomb a village the death of civilians is accidental....NO IT'S INEVITABLE
for John McCain to talk straight would be an accident!!!! and he has made a few!!
McStain doesn't know anything about the economy, or diplomacy, or even the difference between shit and fat meat.
If someone has to constantly remind you that they're giving you straight talk, they probably aren't.
Seems to me that in one of the debates Hillary said she's like to go single payer, but that she know it wouldn't fly at this point.
McCain's misstatements and outright lies are written off by the media as caused by the stresses of the campaign and the breath of facts that he is expected to know, and given his age they marvel at how he is able to keep going at all.
Of course, they overlook the fact that some of his "faux pas" may actually be related to the fact that he is the OLDEST MAN TO EVER RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY. Age is not a factor...so they say.
Pol Pot-O-Cheesesauce @ 2:
Got Damn that was funny. Thanks for the laugh, Pol Pot-O-Cheesesauce
I think he is totally clueless and his campaign people are afraid to correct all his mistakes. Remember we know he has a hell of a temper and I imagine it flares when some young whipper snapper on his campaign tries to correct him.
He is not mentally or physically able to take this country where it needs to go in the next four years. To elect him to this office would be like letting your elderly uncle drive your new sports car when he hasn't driven a car in 40 years. It might be a kind thing to do but certainly not a wise thing to do.
A few months before that, he insisted that the Dems are offering a “government-run, single-payer system like they have in Canada and like they have in England.”
Yes, Heaven forbid they model it on something that's actually working!
Surely nobody would WANT reasonable healthcare at a reasonable price.
The media loves old white guys? Why? Because old white guys run the media.
They're probably instructed to cut grandpa a break. After all, the boss is thankful when his grandkids do.
4 Loo Hoo
Does a Loo Hoo helloo in the loo?
Pol Pot-O-Cheesesauce @ 2:
McStain doesn’t know anything about the economy, or diplomacy, or even the difference between shit and fat meat.
I thought the difference was between shit and shineola, either way McInsane doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
I don't think McCain thought he would get this far in his run for president. Remember for a while, we all thought his campaign was DOA. So he didn't prepare for this as he should have. He was caught off guard when he won the nomination so now he's having to wing it on his knowledge. Once the spotlight is on only him and dem nominee, this could get ugly in all sorts of ways.
Who care's about straight talk? I wanna vote for whoever wins a drinking contest! That's why I'm voting for frat boy for President!
Meanwhile, speaking at Wake Forest University today, Republican presidential nominee John McCain reassured his party's conservative base that he has adopted George W. Bush's judicial philosophy hook, line and sinker. The same John McCain who once expressed doubts about judges in the mold of Samuel Alito today extolled him as a model for the Supreme Court, all the while chanting the right-wing battle cry against so-called judicial activism.
For the details, see:
"Meet the McCain Court. Same as the Bush Court."
I always figure that anyone who addresses me as "My Friend" is definitely NOT and is usually said beginning in a disagreement of a statement or idea.
15 ♠Bangkok-Bob♠ Says: I always figure that anyone who addresses me as “My Friend” is definitely NOT and is usually said beginning in a disagreement of a statement or idea.
Used to be Dear Friend was how your draft notice was addressed.
I want some reporter to ask McCain what he thinks of this
ysbaddaden @ 16:
yep, do you still have a copy or did you burn yours? I burned mine and joined the Navy.
Man that was a loooonnnngg time back .... 1954
sheeesh.
Mischa G @ 13:
He's a guy who knows how to take care of things too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGWakF5XgYM&feature=user
pissed off patricia @ 17:
pretty funny, we thought it was a joke until we found out there is something "like" that going on.
The irony is that McCain's false accusations that the Democrats are offering "a single-payer big government solution" is exactly what Obama and Clinton should be doing. But they are not, as their health care plans include the insurance and drug companies, thus insuring that profit will be placed ahead of the interests of the people. Yet Americans and even liberals continue to heap scorn upon Ralph Nader, who is promoting single-payer, while the two major Democratic candidates continue to eschew that sensible policy. The United States is the only industrialized country in the world where many of its citizens will die because their health bills are not paid but still both Obama and Clinton make sure that the words single -payer will never be uttered from their lips.
Mccain can't answer a single question unless it's scripted or he has a minion whispering in his ear. His comment about oil and the war in Iraq is one of the many faux pas he has done recently. After the primary, hopefully the MSM will do it's job, and expose every single mistake.
I don't get my information about the candidates from the opposing candidate. sheesh.
and the only candidate who gets to flap his gums about the war is grampy, dabnabbit! don't you forget it.
This idiot is shameful...shameless...whatever. To exploit our sick society with these lies and distortions.
It's like a scabby used car salesman selling a dangerous, useless old piece of junk to a needy elderly woman. He has NO conscience whatsoever.
What a pig!!
If the GOP and the elites are against "single payer healthcare", you know it must be right for the American people.
He won't stop, because he is well aware that those precise words will stir fear in
his audience. (Don't underestimate him.)
And, isn't that (fear) what really gets the votes?
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 20:
"Tigris Woods Golf and Country Club"?
Are Colbert's comedy writers working for the pentagon?
The policies of the Bush Administration are now preventing me from putting food on my family.
This is a very crafty, cynical speech. Translation:
It's YOUR FAULT you are sick. YOUR FAULT health insurance costs so much.
If Americans didn't CHOOSE to smoke, eat lousy food and avoid exercise, you'd all be healthier.
Chronic, preventable diseases are YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, not the government's.
So SHAPE UP and STOP WHINING. FORGET all that guff about the INHERENT EFFICIENCY AND LOW COST OF SINGLE-PAYER PUBLIC INSURANCE. It'll NEVER HAPPEN, so GET OVER IT.
Just heard a snippet of McCain's speech today about judges. He referred to "elitist constitutional professors". He got all pissy toward Obama because Obama didn't vote for judges like Roberts and Alito. Hell, that would be enough to get me to vote for Obama if I didn't know anything else about him.
They SHOULD propose a nationalized health care system.
.. cowards ..
MountainMan23 @ 31:
Very well said. My comment at #21 essentially echo what you have stated.
Democrats eat babies. I have proof.
Gotta love the first part of the video where Gone InSane appears to suggest that if you're sick, it's your fault. (It's similar to the nonsense Bill Maher's been peddling lately.) It's because you chose to smoke. It's because you're not getting screened early enough. It's because you aren't eating right or exercising.
While, I certainly can't argue against good nutrition, exercise or avoiding cigarettes, people still become ill in this country. Often because of genetic conditions. Often because of pollutants in the environment. Often for unpredictable and as yet unexplained reasons. And, well, because we're just organisms on a planet replete with germs and viruses whose ability to spread and evolve outpaces our ability to fight them.
I have chronic, very painful, genetic conditions. My behavior matters little in combating them. Medical science has fashioned some life-saving medications for me -- injections that cost roughly $2000 a month (and that's just the start of my regimen) -- and I thank goodness for them every day.
But every month, I battle my insurance company on something or other. It has raised my premiums by about 50% in just the last year, and it will keep doing so. Whenever it doesn't feel like paying for some of my treatments, it doesn't. It gives either no reason, calls it a bureaucratic snafu and apologizes without doing anything, or mutters something unintelligible. Then it shifts the burden of thousands of dollars onto me, causing creditors to come after me with threatening phone calls. The insurance company tells me how to fix the problem, I do what it says, and nothing gets solved. My credit is hurt, causing the next treatment facility to wonder whether to accept me, meaning that much of the time, I finally shell out the money the insurance promised to pay just to restore my credit rating.
Free market? Precisely how can I find better insurance? Who is competing to provide it? No one will insure me with my pre-existing conditions. I could renounce my self-employment, and find maybe a slightly better group plan with some sort of employer (thereby supporting the very corporations that run these despicable plans), but I thought hard work and self-reliance were supposed to be rewarded. Ha! There's no room in this market for me. I'm "lucky" in this country to have what I do.
But, hey, I'm fortunate. I have assets. I have a supportive family. I am a lawyer. And my conditions aren't terminal. I'm in a good position to fight these people.
But others literally die from curable conditions while politicians banter about fictitious choices and free market medicine. And you, Senator, should be fighting for them! There are no choices now, and the profit incentive backfires in this market. For someone like you to tell people simply to exercise more and eat better and stop smoking as some sort of solution is beyond shameful. About as shameful as your admonishment simply to skip a vacation during harsh economic times -- said in the same breath you call Sen. Obama out of touch and elitist.
Hey, Senator, stop flying in your wife's private plane, give up your government health care plan (which I fund with my taxes, by they way) for an individual, out-of-pocket one, and get back to me. Until then, shut the fuck up about your service during a time of war long past. What you're doing now mitigates that honor entirely.
Erroll @ 32:
Ok, I got one.
McPain is so old, he couldn't find his ass in the dark with both hands.
And anyone that votes for him couldn't either.
will be calling my doctor today or tomorrow for appointments for some routine medical tests, and a referral to an orthopedic surgeon for my ankle, which has been giving me problems.
Oops - bad formatting in #35 above. Pardon the repost.
Most of this is preventative stuff. Doesn’t cost me a cent other than what I already pay in regular premiums to my provincial health plan.
It occurred to me a while back that if I were in the States and went in for medical tests, and I got some bad or questionable results that needed follow-up, I’d be screwed. My private insurer would then have evidence of a “pre-existing condition”, which could then become grounds to refuse coverage for a related subsequent illness. Either that or they’d jack my premiums through the roof.
This is insane. Single-payer public insurance is a total no-brainer.
Dave @ 3:
And also, someone who calls you "my friend" all the time, isn't that either.
More bullshit from the Straightjacket Express.
18 ♠Bangkok-Bob♠
Actually, the draft ended when I was thirteen.
I volunteered in 78-82.
It's McCain's fault for becoming a POW, too. If he hadn't been shot down, he'd be fine!
Those asthmatic kids ought to lay off the cigarettes, too!
Heard a young fella recently, after watching his dad stumble on a memory, describe it as "A McCain moment."
Not a senior moment, but "a McCain moment"
"McCain moment" as a coined-phrase is very versatile, could be used in response to a temper tantrum, a flip-flop, or an awkward lie.
Or a dumb statement like "100 years."
The vernacular of street politics and it's ongoing evolution never ceases to amuse me.
Non-smokers who walk 30 minutes a day never, ever, ever get sick. Science has proven it.
Annoyed Canuck @ 37:
I think that your point regarding how so many private insurers would reject people for a pre-existing condition is very well taken. My wife has either MS or an illness which reflects many of the symptoms of MS. If she were to quit her less than satisfying job in search of something more fulfilling, an insurance company from another employer would not cover her expenses, claiming that she has a pre-existing condition. In most if not every other industrialized country, every citizen would be covered, regardless of whether he or she has a pre-existing illness. As you correctly note, for the United States to have a health care system in which its citizens will not be covered because of a pre-existing circumstance is simply insane as well as illogical. Yet, inexplicably [or perhaps not, if all the major candidates have been corrupted by the insurance and drug companies], Obama, Clinton, and McCain are not backing a single-payer system. So much for this country being considered by many to be the greatest country in the world. Perhaps the greatest country in getting people killed but not for promoting the General Welfare of its citizens.
Erroll @ 44:
I raised this point because I actually did have some unexpected test results a while back. I went in for a routine cholesterol test and was told I had elevated liver enzymes - a possible indicator of serious liver disease. It turns out I'm fine - I just need to lose weight because I have accumulated too many fat cells in my liver. This is quite normal these days, given the obesity epidemic. But I now have test results in my medical file that show I am a higher-than-normal statistical risk for a number of serious liver diseases. Which the liver doc assured me I will probably never actually get.
But the stats are real. And liver disease covers a lot of ground. If I were in the US, and years from now I were to be diagnosed with any one of a whole range of endocrine/kidney/liver/digestive/blood sugar illnesses, my liver enzyme test could well serve as an excuse for a private insurer to deny me coverage. And I'd be fucked.
The American medical system (it's not a system at all, actually, it's a market) actually punishes people for practicing preventive medicine. If you test negative for anything, your future coverage and treatment is compromised. It seems to me that in the US, strictly as far as medical insurance is concerned, you are actually better off not getting checkups and not keeping track of your own health. Which is just totally backwards.
His idea of a health care plan is so utterly ridiculous. If you actually had $5000 dollars a year to spend on your health insurance, you would benefit. If you don't have it, well that certainly won't help you much. And those are the folks who need the help, you know, the guys without the 5K.
And guess what the average insurance company will start charging everyone?
Anyone? Anyone?
The only people who like his plan are John, his staff, and the insurance companies.
Insurers didn't get a big enough windfall on the prescription drug program.
Another chapter in the raping of America.
Karen@34 Are you sure "mitigates" is the mot juste in this case. I realize you are exercising lawyerly caution but I would have thought "abrogates" or perhaps "annihilates" would have been more appropriate. That is if any of that honor had survived his politcal career.
I was looking at this headline, and suddenly realized we're mis-understanding what he means by "straight talk": it's not that we're going to get the truth, or some reality, it's that we're going to get "straight talk"--as in the opposite of "gay". . . macho posturing, pushy, aggressive nonsense. . . .
Peter G @ 47:
It is a pleasure to be continually taken to task by you, my esteemed Peter G. ;)
Besides misrepresenting the democrats McCain misrepresents health care in Canada. While we do have issues our infant mortality is 40% lower than the US. Our life expectancy is 2 years longer and we spend 40% less than the US. I'll keep my plan thank you very much.
Does Senator McNuts have plans for regime change in Canada and England to liberate them from their dreadful "two-tiered system”? That's what America wants to know!
US would never attack Canada. Because we
a) don't have any weapons of mass destruction
b) do have lots of oil
c) have 2 major ethnic groups (French & English)
oops....never mind
Isn't it ironic that under the McCain plan, McCain, Elizabeth Edwards, and Tony Snow would all not qualify because they have pre-existing conditions like cancer?
Of course, he's had government health care from his early days. What if he had that crappy company...the one that let the girl die to save a buck? I betcha that he wouldn't be on the campaign trail right now.
While both Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York are calling for universal health care and an expanded role for government, they stop well short of calling for a single-payer plan.
Well...Why not?
McCain's insistence that government-run healthcare would be such a disaster is getting more and more ridiculous. Who oversaw the healthcare he received when he came home from that Vietnamese prison?
hint: the US government.
I am a retired Navy Chief. My healthcare policy is administered by the government (Tricare). I pay $230 per year in premiums, and a $12.00 co-pay when I see a doctor. I have NEVER been denied treatment for anything. I am currently being treated for cancer. The doctors treating me are considered the best in central California, and everything is covered - by that same government-run healthcare plan.
When I turn 65 (God willing), and have to go on Medicare, that same government-run healthcare plan will continue my prescription drug coverage. My cost for a 3-month supply of any prescription: usually $3.00, and sometimes as much as $22.00 for the really expensive ones. This is unlike many privately-run (for profit) health plans that have started looking into charging for prescription drugs for their members, not on a fixed-payment co-pay basis, but on a percentage of cost basis, thereby raising the cost of prescriptions to a point that many will once again not be able to afford live-saving medicine.
So much for the inefficiency and unfairness of government-run medical care.
PS: That $230/year is for me only. If I were insuring a family, it would go all the way up to $460.00 per year - outrageous, isn't it?
Oh, I almost forgot. Before I went with the Tricare plan, I had private (for-profit) insurance with Blue Cross of Maryland (through my post-military employer). I paid almost 200 per month. For that I got a company that frequently neglected to pay up for so long that my credit rating went completely into the toilet. They delayed paying for one hospital visit for over 18 months.
It took me years to get things straightened out, and I had to threaten to sue them to get it fixed. Let's hear it for private insurance! yay!
Elizabeth Edwards got it right. McCain has benefited from US provided health care all his life. He is so out of touch with reality.
"A few months before that, he insisted that the Dems are offering a “government-run, single-payer system like they have in Canada and like they have in England.”
Yes, Heaven forbid they model it on something that’s actually working!
Surely nobody would WANT reasonable healthcare at a reasonable price"
My thoughts exactly Yourmom. If they keep using Canada as an example and make it out to be a negative example they must be feeding you people an awful lot of bullshit. In a previous post I mentioned that I like the fact I don't have to worry about going bankrupt due to a medical problem. I should also mention that a couple of years ago the CBC had an ongoing program that polled the nation to see who we thought was the greatest Canadian ever. The winner was Tommy Douglas because he was the person whose idea it was to implement our health care system. Polls always show that health care is among the top 2 concerns with Canadian voters. I believe it would be the case in the US as well.
Successive federal governments have had annual surpluses for years now. I honestly can't remember the last time we had a deficit.
The US should have a law whereby wealthy dickheads cannot run for president. They have absolutely no idea what reality is for the majority of its citizens. OR there should at least be an IQ test for potential candidates and it should be performed outside of the US in a neutral country. Every time I hear Bush speak I can't believe someone who appears to be so stupid could be in the decision making process of a country. I'd love to hear what the leaders of other countries really think of this moron.
Earth to McCain:
For the last fucking time,the 'government' doesn't 'run' healthcare in Canada. The providers are private, just like here. The government pays for it.
And as D. Boucher points out above, Canadians like it just fine. Any politician who was foolish enough to suggest switching to our system would be immediately run out of office and possibly hung by an angry mob.
My favorite McInanity was when he challenged proponents of single-payer health care to "take a trip to England or Canada" to see how screwed up everything is there. Yeah, like I have the money to take international trips when I'm saving up to get a filling in a cavity I've been developing over the last year.
McCain = OUT OF TOUCH
We shouldn't be chastising Mcbush for campaigning for the Dems too harshly. After all many and maybe a majority of americans are so fed up with our pass the buck healthcare system that if enough actually believe that both dem candidates are pushing for a single payer system that could only be a plus for them.
Maybe if enough people actually did visit other more citizen friendly countries and they would see the lie that these profit above all else types continue to try to fool us with.
I say keep it up Mcflipflop you are only preaching to the already converted the rest of us want some real change.
xvet
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