What do you guys think about this?
By John Amato Tuesday May 13, 2008 9:00pmI know it's from the Politico, but I've seen most of the information trickling out elsewhere.
Senator Barack Obama's campaign is steering the candidate's wealthy supporters away from independent Democratic groups, calling into question what had been expected to be the groups' central role in this year's Democratic offensive against Senator John McCain.
The donors have been considering entreaties from Progressive Media USA, run by conservative-journalist turned liberal media critic David Brock; from former Clinton aide John Podesta's Fund for America; and from America Votes, a group backed by billionaire George Soros that focuses on voter mobilization, among other efforts.
But in recent days, major donors have begun to conclude that Obama is serious in trying to cut off funds to the outside groups. "It's given donors pause," said one prominent Democratic donor of Pritzker's words.
But Democrats who support the work of the media 527s say Obama's making a mistake. Progressive Media USA has aired anti-McCain television ads and developed a website intended to be a hub for negative information about McCain.
"Obama needs a baseline to the melody of his positive message," said a Democratic strategist who backs the group's aims...read on
Matt Stoller wrote a lengthy piece called: Obama's Consolidation of the Party.
And a follow up called: Reactions to Obama's Consolidation of the Party.
Obviously this is just hitting the blogosphere so it's still unclear what's really happening. It could be an overreaction or reality or a little of both. Planned Parenthood, NARAL, WVWV, VoteVets and many others could all be included in the defunding plan that would put funds into Obama's new infrastructure from what I'm hearing. I've also received information that Obama is only talking about the 527s and not about the outside groups. As soon as I hear anything on this I'll pass it on to you.
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Cain't we all jest git along?
Why is he doing this, allegedly?
He'll want to say he's doing things "differently," that this is all about another "change." Or something like that.
While McCain's proxies Swift-Wright him into the ground.
I'm not sure how smart this is, if true.
I suppose it would be too naive to think that Sen. Obama just doesn't want his campaign to be tied to the same awful gutter tactics that the Republicans plan to roll around in?
Considering how the Wright link failed so miserably in Mississippi of all places, perhaps Obama sees that he can stay out of the gutter and still win. It's risky and perhaps not wise but it is at least honorable in a way.
OT
What is the music playing at the Obama rally where Edwards endorsed him?
Springsteen? What? I want to download it.
Clavis @ 4:
You're totally right. Gawker.com's Alex Pareene said something to the effect of: "most people seem content to make up Barack Obama's biography out of things they find around the house", so I think Obama is wise to want his message to come from the source as much as is possible, especially since he gets misquoted constantly.
Excellent. Obama does not need the 527s and this move allows him to focus on his strengths.
This also is a good move for the party, change tactics, don't do the same thing as the other party.
I think he meant it when he said he wants to avoid the same old political games.
I think this is good.
Sure, McCain and the Republican Cabal will sling mud like its going out of style. But that will backfire on them.
America is ready for a President that looks beyond the short term self serving politics of my generation. Bush has made us hungry for competence and true conviction.
I think this is good.
I have never been as worried about Obama's (genetic) father as I have been about his (political) grandfather. Remember, he is a product of the Chicago machine, descended from Richard Daley. Get used to a new word, and that word is "clout."
The essence of machine politics is control. Yes, I know, the essence of any politics is control, but machine politics brings control to a fine point. I have always been a dem and am quite used to our disorderly (dare I say anarchic) way of doing things. But I spent dome years living in Baltimore, under the reign of William Donald Schaeffermayor (and the people of Baltimore) and I have to say that I have both admiration for and fear of how that system works.
I think it may well work out for us, and I am a huge fan, but I think there may be costs as well.
Those brilliant commercials from the Courage Campaign - isn't that a 527?
I'll support Obama and donate directly to his campaign as well as direct contributions to Democratic candidates who vote responsibly on issues that are of concern to me.
I no longer donate to the Democratic party because big party machine politics suck and have given us the "blue dog democrats" and other assorted DINOs.
If Obama's intention is to revitalize the machine... screw it! I'll continue to support 527s who reflect my political point of view and put the spot light on campaigns for worthy contenders in the primaries. I'm sick of the Liebermans and Feinsteins in congress.
Money is power and the ability to finance responsible politicians directly is the only way that the beltway crowd is going to begin to listen to the American people again.
Put the cash into precincts, wards, get out the vote, registration...feet on the ground. This fall will be a street by street ground war and money finally needs to be put on the ground tactically to build the party of the future. Why build 527s...how successful have they been on the tactical side...not so much. Nice ads but nice ads are on TV..the radio...not at the polls.Obama and Howard Dean get it. 527s are not so much change but very much the politics of the 90s.
527's have largely been responsible for putting pressure on some of these elected officials, think of those campaigns against Bush dog democrats Hoyer and Rockefeller and their positions on immunity for the telecoms. It is not surprising that a politician such as Obama would look to dent the impact of some of these groups that are under the control of no politician or party, and Obama is wrong on this issue.
Don't do it! Please stay out of the mud Obama.
Assuming it is only the 527s, I think it is not only a good decision, but really the ONLY decision he could make. If he was steering people away from giving to independent organizations that do not involve themselves directly in Presidential Politics, I would think there would be a lot of heat brought down on him, and rightly so. I just can't imagine that would be the case, and I think even hypothesizing it as a possibility based on what we have thus far is a little irresponsible. (An unfounded rumor is close enough to the truth for some opponents to run with it.)
So far as giving for election purposes, I think the candidates and their parties should be the primary (if not only) conduits.
One other point - directing his heavy donors away from these organizations is not the same as "de-funding" them. That kind of exaggeration seems a little bit over the top to me. Such requests are going only to his "inner circle" of high-$ donors, they are not mandatory, and EVERYONE is free to give money to whoever they choose. Obama has a plan he would prefer to follow, and it is reasonable to expect his closest supporters to support that plan, so long as it is rational and ethical.
Obama can't control his own message if the money goes elsewhere. that's how the dems fucked up before. there needs to be a single purpose and single path. this looks like a coming good thing and the greedy bastards are already slicing up the fucking victory pie.
So it is being used to demonize Obama. For trying to control his own campaign, Obama is being made out to be the bad guy. And the framing of the questions by the Politico, aka drudge-lite, and others will make it look like Obama is a megalomaniac.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If I wanted a dictatorship, I'd join the GOP
It seems smart to me. I don't trust 527s.
QuakerDave @ 3:
Add this from the same Politico piece:
And it's even more interesting.all those bloggers, all their campaign contributions spurred by their trust and enthusiasm... interesting.
Piper Girl
DHSmd @ 16:
exactly! these large donors always have their own message and not the candidates'. they will always be associated Obama, but not beholden to or controlled by his campaign. no matter what, msm will link the groups to Obama anyway.
He should have control or deniability.
I might be against the war, but I am no pacifist. Along the same vein..if we can beat the Rethugs at their own game..why is that unfair? I say hit them with their own brand of bullS**t. Perhaps not outright lies like the Rethugs do....but still, hit them hard on points that are true, but Obama wouldn't touch them..
Obama is not the bad guy here..he seems, if it's true, to be attempting to play clean. There is a certain negative backlash to negative ads...but that said..why not level the playing field?
QuakerDave @ 3:
I agree.
on both counts...
larry @ 13:
BINGO! that puts it as pointedly and succinctly as I wish I had.
Matt @ 8:
You mean don't learn from the party that put the least competent individual ever in the white house twice? The only way this makes any sense is if the campaign laws actually apply to McBush and his spending limited because he used the federal funds. But even then, Fleischer's group is rumored to have a ton of money to make trouble and Mr Oxycotin is lying on the radio every day.
Surely you don't think election will hinge on the quality of the candidates and their positions on real issues.
Obama is consolidating power.Where is this taking place?
In the middle ground.A place the Clintons have done very well in for years.
The 527's represent more left leaning antiwar concerns-away from said middle ground.
I can only assume he doesn't want the left wing of the party to control the agenda.
Bchem @ 14:
take a look at what Obama has done and what Howard Dean has done.
kometes @ 26:
they started with something like $268M, if I remember correctly.
larry @ 13:
President Kerry agrees with this assessment of the whole Swiftboat Vet 527 group thing.
I think he'd be psychotic if were not just the 527s he's talking about, and I think he means to show us exactly what "change" can do. I think he's definitely trying to put his mouth where his money is, and Democrats and Republicans should respect that. There are a bunch of ways, as we've seen, 527s can backfire, and they are really just the same as other lobbyists. This can't help but be a good thing... even if Obama was not your choice for nominee... and, yes, what larry said @ 13....
dday had an excellent post on this the other day at Hullabaloo, entitled "The Obama Party."
My impression was this is not a power grab; and actually a good thing for the future of the Democratic Party.
start the campaign on the high road and adjust your course accordingly. i would have plans for travelling on the low road though.
Sound like he wants to appear non-threatening, middle-class, academic-friendly, and unlikely to confront institutional white republican supremacy in any way more meaningful than attaining higher office.
L.A. Confidential @ 34:
Can't say I blame him.
um, my brain is on fire now? I mean this is just a brain burning bullshit fest.
miss_kitty @ 36:
are you sure you're on the right thread?:)
please keep in mind that the msm and all the reighwing minions with publishing capability are working against the progressive efforts.
politico is one of them.
the identification of 'billionaires and bloggers' as enemies of the repugs was done last year.
that was just early target identification.
this means that all we have here is an opportunity to recognize this as a divisive tactic.
The other twist is Obama might be actually exceptional at anticipating and controlling the propaganda machine.
God what would we do if we didn't have to listen to propaganda?
from the politico to yahoo to huffpost
next stop AP, cnn and moanin' joe scumbag.
CoIntelPro against Repug DoucheBaggery @ 38:
The Identification of bloggers?
I have to admit. I was wonderin when I crossed the border.
I say support Obama's campaign give him money, money, money. But also fund any 527s that will help Obama get elected. McCain will say he is not going to let 527s swift boat Obama but in the end they will and McCain will say ,"Ooops I'm Sorry!".
mudshark @ 37:
Yeah. I am really weary of this back and forth. This bullshit has gone on long enough-way too long. I need to take a nap.
been reading in other blogs about how he's launching a ... well i think 'attack' is a little strong - but fighting 527s in general. i'm sure this is just more of that.
Just drink the new infrastructure kool aid.
It sounds like Obams and McCain are trying to make a deal and run both campaigns on high etical standards and issues. But the GOP will do some swift-boating then say they did not mean to do it after the damage has been done. All I can say is support your local 527s along with the organized democratic party structures. You do want to win in November?
DC @ 42:
527s are not allowed to be part of a campaign. that's the law. Barack knows what he is doing. funding ostensibly directed at getting Barack elected should go to, then through Barack's organization.
Don't let the politico/yahoo/ap/ screw up your perspective.
I cannot testify to the accuracy of this, but I have heard that Obama wants to take over the Democratic party the same way that the Neocons took over the Republican party, forcing out anybody who is not in with his plan. This would seem to support such a claim.
mudshark @ 41:
Yes, bloggers! they targeted kos early on.
Just in case anyone is wondering what the F a "527" is....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/527_group
Goin' back to the Laker game.....
This one will blow over quickly. They might try, but it's gonna be pretty tough for the righty talkies to spin this to their crowd. This one requires thought.
ok....nice try #48.
next!
wait...I'm sorry...were you being sarcastic?
Given John Podesta's connection to the crooked and racist Womens Voices, Women Votes, I have no problem with Obama keeping money out of any group with whom Podesta is involved.
Tommy Hussein @ 51:
rotflmbbao!
jwrjr @ 48:
you heard?
or did "some people say"?
was the oxycuntin man or beckenstein or scumbagero where you heard it?
Perhaps as President he wants to eliminate the 527 groups from elections. It would be more difficult to eliminate them if they were a significant part of him getting elected in the first place.
I think Obama might be on to something....His OWN ads are on messege and very well crafted State by State addressing issues that are applicable to each state and also answer questions in each state....He also has been very clear he wants to keep the Campaign at a Different Level...I think that is a good plan....MoveOn took submissions for his new 30 second spot...but I will be honest....I was really uncomfortable with the Ad they chose....I trust his Campaign People....they have done a good job controlling the Messege- not going Negative or Muddy, and have also not overspent....and it has made a big difference...
I think there are probably a few things at work here. Ultimately I think he wouldn't do it if he didn't think it was the right thing to do in terms of running a positive campaign, but that just happens to coincide with other strategic interests of his related to weakening outside groups. One is that he has been remarkably good at controlling his message and outside groups, even supportive ones can change the debate to places you'd rather not go. Another is that he can probably look down the road to a time when these same groups would use their influence to oppose his policies and might wish to keep their influence limited. Thirdly it is more money for his campaign.
rusted flagpin enigma4ever of Watergate Summer @ 57:
methinks you might be on to something.
btw, I like your nickname. It's really...something
The "Consolidation" article is over the top infatuated with Obama. If the Democratic party really were being deconstructed and rebuilt in Obama's image, the Democratic primary would not be this close for this long. Sure he has become the de facto nominee, but his margin of victory is very narrow and late-in-coming, and a lot of hardcore progressives believe he's undermining the policies we cherish most.
If this article is true, Obama will have crossed the line from consolidating support to consolidating power. The difference is the latter involves granting him the ability to coerce intraparty consent through punitive measures (e.g. cutting off funds, restricting access). And that's a frightening thought for those off us who favor the other candidates' more progressive agendas.
CoIntelPro against Repug DoucheBaggery @ 47:
Yes, 527s cannot coordinate with a campaign. But if you need dirty work to be done they can do it and the campaign can say they had no idea that negative lie was going to take place.
McCain (Republicans) will end up doing just that kind of tactic to Obama. If the Democrats do not have their own 527s in place to counter this type of political warfare their candidate is doomed. 527s messages are designed to throw a candidate off balance. Then the candidate spends all of his time on defense trying to explain the truth.
If the candidate tries to ignore the 527s message then the message becomes the truth for the average voter.
The only real way to counter this is to have your own attack machine there throwing the opposing candidate off balance. Then money becomes the issue. Which 527s can outspend the other side? This year the Democrats can bury the GOP.
Of coarse the GOP nor the Democrats cannot coordinate any of these actions with the 527s. I wonder if the GOP has really followed this law?
"We will attack Obama viciously on all fair issues, whether they are national security, whether they are taxes or the economy," promised Chris LaCivita, one of the Republican strategists behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group that attacked Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry in 2004. LaCivita added: "At the end of the day, every individual has a right to participate in the political process whether John McCain likes it or not. It's their constitutional right."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/13/AR200805...
Bobby Dunwoody @ 54:
Thank you. If I were Obama, I would be in no hurry to help any outfit pf Podesta's get more money - at least until this nomination business is over. For those who don't remember WVWV, here's the link:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0408/Press_Clubs_Reynolds...
That Pritzker chick has some explaining to do about making a bundle off of sub-prime loans.
The president defines their party. O'Bama is taking the preliminary steps.
I respect Obama and what h is trying to do but I am a realist. I fear he will not go after Cain and get tough with him the way Dean and Progressive Media has done. I think they will not get too dirty. Besides .....
Someone needs to call out McCain on this one... CNN just reported McCain will hold a pess conference tomorrow and LIE to the American people by telling them that "MOST" of the troops will be out of Iraq by the end of his 1st term. This is a BIG LIE and a very vague goal?? he is Lieberman all over again and telling the voters what they want to hear to get elected. He knows he is not going to pull ou troops out!!!! Liar! Liar ! Liar! Liar!
I hope Obama and Dean/DNC does not let John "100 years" McCain get away with this. I think Obama was intimidared by the McCain campaign because he does not use the 100 yrs phrase anymore in his speeches against McCain. I appreciate the role 527s play and I am sure glad Dean is head of the DNC b/c he will crush McCain on this one!
Much ado about nothing.
However unfortunate sounding the Obama campaign's stance on independent groups sounds, 1) he can't stop people from giving to other groups, and 2) this is really was just a way to insulate his campaign from whatever controversy and independent group (527 or otherwise) might stir up.
Groups like MoveOn have been great for Obama, but McCain was almost certainly going to try to use the 'Petraeus or Betray Us' and their endorsement of Obama against him (it's fits right with the only platform McCain has to run on) as a way to condemn Obama and now he can't. At least not effectively. Now all the groups can run all the attack ads they want against McCain and Obama has insulated himself from a lot of the blowback that might come from it. He can truthfully say he not only has no connection to these groups and their ads and that he has specifically distanced himself as far as he can from them.
Just like the local GOP ads against Obama, that's the same way McCain is going to play. McCain won't overtly sling mud, but others will for him and McCain will stick to the story that he has no control over them. Obama's just setting it up to be able to do the same thing.
Right off the bat - not very happy about this -- something to keep our eyes on.
If he really seeks to control all the money coming from the blogosphere for liberal causes - it sucks. Don't know what to make of it yet.
*
Didn't they mean "bassline"? Weird.
No 527's? Is Obama planning on playing nice with the GOP? Sounds like Kerry the next generation. I'm sure Obama's concession speech will be moving and hopeful and invigorating. He even sent out a mailer in Kentucky with a photo of him with a black Jesus on a stained glass window in the back round.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll30/EconGradStud/Barack.jpg
Is he trying to commit political suicide?
I hope Obama steps back from this it's a dumb idea.Let the 527's be funded but say that at times Obama will not agree with them.But if he wants to give Hillary the nomination start doing this and make it an issue and she will walk away with it.
WalmartHater @ 71:
No, that's what you use to catch bass. ;)
He tries it, he's finished. If Obama tries to DLC the party, effectively tries to nullify the grassroots, it will destroy a large part of his base. I find him the lesser of two evils, the best candidates having been nullified by the MSM. But there is nothing in the world to stop me and millions of others from writing-in our preffered candidate on election day. I'm barely comfortable with him and it would take very little for me to go looking elsewhere.
LunaStick @ 5:
BWAHAHAHAHA! MWAHAHAHAHA! Oh MAN yer KILLIN me here! BWAHAHAHA! obamalamadingdong "stay outta the gutter" BWAHAHAHAHA! This clown, when you look in the dictionary for the phrase "gutter dweller" they have his PICTURE next to it! "stay out of the gutter" MWAHAHAHA!
DC @ 63:
david broder took the buyout. yippee!
Paul @ 75:
having control over your campaign resources is different from trying to control the party. look more closely at the differences between barack's campaign and hillary's DLC. the DLC snakes took down ned lamont. the DLC abandoned the southern states, making it easier for the repugs to steal elections. the DLC keeps LIEberman in a set of power. the democratic party doesn't need a republican wing or a bunch of saboteurs disguised as consultants.
is it because he's muslim?
McCain is "Mr. Campaign Finance Reform". What better way is there to take his strength and play it against him? If 527s become illegitimate, then the Repubs have a lot less ability to "Swiftboat" Obama. The news story becomes, "The real reformer Obama versus the hypocrite McCain." It's always better to be authentic. And given that the lefty 527s don't have the best track record ever, the loss to the dems might be on the smaller side, and the gains might be huge. I have a pretty fundamental trust of the Obama campaign's political instincts.
This didn't dissuade NARAL from endorsing him. Didn't sway George Soros. So apparently they are on board with what he's doing. I know that out at places like Correntewire and Taylor Marsh there will be voices raised over what some will portray as the Great Satan Obama trying to break every interest group, no matter how worthwhile. But nothing about this guy's history tells me that's what's going on here.
With all due respect, most of us know that sometimes Dems can be their own worst enemies. For everyone who recognizes that Barack Obama is the Democratic Party nominee, and for everyone who is still in denial but moving toward acceptance, I sure hope they'll all decide pretty damn soon that the person to be picking apart is McSame, with a little time devoted to Nader, too. The time for second-guessing is pretty much over, so hopefully it will burn out soon. After that, it's just destructive.
(And lest I be labeled an Obamatron conceived in some Chicago test tube, let me just say that I practically went into a fetal position and sucked my thumb for quite awhile after Kucinich dropped out, even though I knew all along it was inevitable.)
I'm sure we would all like to have a nice clean campaign, but does anyone really thing the Republic party is going to play fair? Bringing kittens to a gun fights probably isn't a good idea.
jwrjr @ 48:
Well, the 527s aren't party structures, and they can't be directly connected wtih candidates' campaigns, though they.can do anything else permissible under election law.
This is just Obama's way of asking his supporters to stay with him on maintaining "principled" campaigning to change the entire face of politics, no below-the-belts to the opposition, no knee-capping, no lying, always maintaining respect even when disagreeing with one's opponent. As he's done personally with Hillary. I think he's saying, "Let the Republicans do it if they must and I'll handle it in the campaign, but let's keep our marching feet on the high road."
And I must say it: it's the Jesus-model of Christianity in action -- and who knew it would work in such an arena!
So far it's worked like a charm with Hillary's old Washington campaign style. The effect has been to turn a glaring spotlight on humanity's "best and worst" selves. I think he's betting that it will work in the GE campaign against McCain, too, and I suspect he's right. Apparently he and McCain have agreed to NOT conduct an ugly personal campaign against each other but stick to the issues. McCain can count on Obama's camp to not accuse him of mental instability because of his time in that POW camp, and McCain isn't going to hear anything about an illegitimate Black child. I'm sure Obama will publicly remind McCain if he slips from the standard.
Even so, many of us cannot "turn the other cheek" when what we value is attacked and want to retaliate likewise -- eye for an eye and all that. That's why we cheer when Keith Olbermann socks it to the political sleazeballs in America. He expresses our anger and outrage for us, even if it rarely affects those who are the subjects of his rants.
If Obama and McCain can keep their campaigning just between the two of them and the noise of Swiftboating stays outside their campaign relationship with both criticizing the worst of it, disowning it, Americans may actually make an informed voting decision.
Kometes makes the point that "president Kerry agrees" regarding the effectiveness of 527s...obvious reference to Swiftboat. Heres the thing.....Swiftboat vets were succesful not because they were a 527 and spent a lot of money to smear Kerry....it was Kerrys ineffectiveness in his response to the swiftboat smear. Swiftboaters didn't take a precinct Kometes.. ineffective campaigning, no on real ground war money that is what beat Kerry. Kerrys campaign is the lesson ....stop putting money into 527s and put money on the street, precinct by precinct, polling place, etc....I love Move on....love the ads and all that...but I love winning more. The Obamacan ad is great, but that ad will not drive a single voter to the polls, will not provide a poll watcher in any city or town in America...nice message but messaging doesn't pay a canvasers 4.00 a gallon gas to work a near by towns wards and precincts. This might be the media/internet age but folks, nothing happens until someone gets up off the sofa, pushes themselves away from the computer monitor and walks, drives, or rides to a polling place whether early or on election day and votes!
CoIntelPro against Repug DoucheBaggery @ 18:
I wouldn't say "megalomaniac". More like "General".
Think about it; if McCain and his 527 machine go deep into the gutter, the pro-dem 527's will fire back. The problem is that whenever to Repub 527s open fire with racial smears, it has splash damage on McCain. Whenever they smear him, Obama can counter that McCain is engaging in the "old politics". But if the 527s are attacking McCain's age, regardless of whether they're under Obama's orders or not, Obama loses his "post-partisanship" standing.
Welcome to the rock and the hard place.
Agent X
Maybe Obama just wants complete control of the message he's putting out. 527's, however good their intentions are, could sometimes put out a message that may be, on first glance, somewhat different or at odd's with the candidate's official positions. This way, there is no misunderstanding of what Obama's positions are because they are coming directly from the campaign and not from surrogate groups. It helps him in that he's not put in a position of having to defend what NARAL says, or what MoveOn says or what have you. This may be a smart move by Obama's camp. We'll just have to wait and see.
ps. momly@6 That song they were playing when Edwards came to the podium was "The Rising" by Springsteen and the E Street Band.
All he needs is some fringe 527 causing some controversy. He has enough money to fight Mccaine fairly rather than having to funnel money in to 527's, so why not maintain control of the message and the money?
Wow, my post was eaten!! Anyway, what I was saying before it disappeared was that I think this may be a very smart move by Obama's camp. Let's be honest, some 527's, no matter what their good intentions, can sometimes send out a message that may be at odds with the candidates. With Obama's campaign taking control of the message in this way, everybody's on the same page and he's not forced to waste valuable time defending what NARAL says or what MOVEON says. LIke I say, this could be a very smart move by Obama.
ps. momly@6: The song they were playing when Edwards came to the podium was "The Rising" by Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band.
“Obama needs a baseline to the melody of his positive message,” said a Democratic strategist..."
Oopps...a sour note in the "melody"? First of many f*ck-ups on the way to a disaster in November.
Ugh.
The problem is, all politicians are the same. Eventually it is revealed through actions and activities that these creatures are nothing more than predators. The press spin strategies are the only real differences.
It is beyond disgusting how no matter what the proof is revealed year after year, decade after decade and nothing changes with the exception that a few more countrymen wake up to this simple fact.
Each issues id discussed and tossed into the grey areas, then passes through the red tape only to reveal that its the same shit different prick. Any questions?
What he is doing is requesting people not to go out and create fake 527 groups like many other candidate's supporters have done and which is the main way that Republicans get around campaign finance laws. He doesn't care if you send a few bucks to moveon, but having donors spend $10 million to create an "independent" group is not how he wants to play the game. He has proven that he can raise a lot of money from small donors.
http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/clinton-supporters-raising-at-least-1...
Piper Girl @ 21:
And the group of billionaires he has backing him with bundled money.
not to mention the astroturfing king Axelrod.
this really is an interesting development.
Not sure what to make of it.
The Politico piece seems ambivalent both worried and admiring at the same time.
me too.
What worries me is the controlling of information.
Obama has a huge base so devoted to him that there isn't anything he says or does that isn't defended to the nth degree. But when the time comes, suppose as commander in chief he finds out that it just isn't possible to withdraw from Iraq due to circumstances we know nothing about right now... and there is MUCH we do not know right now.
If there is this much control of information does it mean that the things which might disappoint or disaffect these supporters doesn't get out?
I don't think I'm being clear.
One of the things that has concerned me about the fanaticism of some Obama supporters is the blind and stubborn ideology. When that kind of "support" is disappointed the adoration can turn to hate pretty quickly and be just as fanatical. The hate mongering against Clinton we have seen can just as easily be turned against Obama if he is seen to be "selling out" by this faction of supporters. Of course governing is selling out in a sense... or is perceived that way I mean. You have to weaken one thing to get support for something else, no one is ever 100 % satisfied because so many people need to be represented not just the governing head's constituency.
So if information is going to be that controlled what does this mean iregarding what voters know about and what the media (damn them all to hell) gets to know about?
We have seen the control of information in this White House and its pretty ugly.
I sure hope this is not the direction things will be going in.
Its a little disturbing.
someone else asked if it was naive to think that Obama really just wants to not do mudslinging.
Maybe. I think he and his surrogates are very good at doing just that in a controlled, passive aggressive way that employs plausible deniability thus shaping public opinion, ie: reality.
This has been Axelrod's forte and he has a corporation tin Chicago that specializes in this. I forget the name but it can be googled pretty easily.
Axelrod+astroturphing.
So yeah, that is what I find disturbing, this desire and knowledge of how to shape public opinion through the media and other means.
Brilliant, but disturbing.
OOPS,
I meant astroturfing.
Googling Axelrod + astroturfing.
momly @ 6:
The Rising by Bruce Springsteen it is a great CD released a few years ago
Darrell Kern @ 90:
pretty funny.and unfortunately all to true.
I became somwhat disillusioned with our big guy a few months ago, around New Hampshire? South Carolina, hung in for a little while but just was disturbed by some things. I know I see through my own lens and not all is as I see it but I do try tio be objective by doing some research and trying to read with "blank" eyes and also with the oppositions eyes, putting myself in their place.
When I find myself cheering the media for things they should be condemned for I realize that I am being just a wee bit non objective.
LOL
accountability @ 95:
I hear ya!
I used to be the eternal optimist and no matter how bad things got I could see the silver lining or hope for humanity as a civilized society. To some degree I feel this way because I do believe that for the most part, people are inherently good and peaceful save for the few truly rotten evil apples that are spoiling it for everybody.
I have never seen such blatant dishonesty in my life! We must be at some major pinnacle. It will be interesting to see who wins this war!
I agree that South Carolina was a very telling event in our nations political destruction of morals and values. I still cannot believe that Americans have not yet stormed the white house!
Darrell Kern @ 96:
Optimist indeed. My brother calls me Forest Gump. LOL Psychology testing once said I was a Pollyanna which was hilarious to those who know me and my mouth.
Anyway, when this started I was very happy, optimistic about both candidates, for what it said about Dem's, society, that we finally got to this place and all the work of the previous decades, the marches, protests, organizing was finally showing very visible results. I would have supported whoever won but I was certainly more for him and a little hesitant about her. One hears so much "stuff". I was so torn as many people were, being a woman (a typical white lady) who can remember when it was the norm for women to ask permission to work outside the home of course I would want to see a woman. As a person who came up in the civil rights era of course I would want to see an AA.
Anyway; As time went on I couldn't stand either one of them! LOL I became neutral for awhile. As I researched, much to my surprise I wound up actually liking Clinton and finding out all kinds of surprising and interesting things about her (positive things I should add!)
She worked on the Watergate committee and did the research that led to Nixon's resignation. (she was 26 years old!) I'm sure that bunch liked her a lot.
Whatever, not going through the litany of her good points. I always feel I have to justify my supporting her due to the hate mongering on HuffPo and some other sites.
I wound up supporting her even though when I did I knew it was more a symbolic gesture. But I have always loved symbolism, gestures, and lost causes.
I've always taken the side of those I thought were being unjustly attacked. I thought the media really did a number on her and when no one in DNC stood up for her it really pissed me off. Call me Pollyanna but I would have expected Obama to call out some of the overt sexism and some fairness between the supporters of both.
It must be all that pot I smoked in the late 60's that did me in.
Obama will get the nomination unless something horrendous comes out, the 527's will nail him to the wall-- though perhaps this whole control thing going on there may be a way they combat that.
Who knows?
Luckily McCain is not beloved by the neocon faction of the right and has a lot of his own garbage that can be exploited.
How awful to say "luckily" to that.
Yipes.
Here is to finishing up the primary's... talk about symbolic gestures... and starting the next phase of this insanity.
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