John McCain's Veterans Problem
By Nicole Belle Monday May 26, 2008 11:00am
Well, he talks a good game, doesn't he? John McCain gave a speech in New Mexico yesterday on Memorial Day:
It would be easier, much easier politically me to of joined Senator Webb in offering his legislation. More importantly, I feel, just as he does, we owe the veterans the respect and generosity of a great nation because no matter how generously we show our gratitude, it will never compensate them fully for all of the sacrifices they have borne on our behalf.
The most important difference between our two approaches is that Senator Webb offers veterans who served one enlistment, the same benefits as those offered veterans who have reenlisted several times. Our bill has a sliding scale. It offers generous benefits to all veterans but increases those veterans' benefits according to the veterans' length of service. It's important to do that. Because, otherwise, we will encourage more people to leave the military after they have completed one enlistment.
At a time when the United States military is fighting in two wars and we're finally, finally beginning the long overdue and very urgent necessity of increasing the size of the army and marine corps, one study estimates that Senator Webb's bill will reduce retention rates by 16%.
Uh no. John McCain is being dishonest (*gasp!*) by selectively citing a CBO study on the impact of the bill. McCain said the study concluded the bill would reduce retention by 16 percent. What McCain failed to mention, however, is that same study determined that the Webb bill would offset that loss by boosting recruitment by 16 percent.
This is not the first time McCain, who has a proud history of opposing what he views as excessive government spending, has found himself at odds with his fellow veterans on legislation. He's voted for veterans funding bills only 30% of the time, according to a scorecard of roll-call votes put out by the nonpartisan Disabled Americans for America. Under the same system Obama has a 90% rating — though, of course, he has spent a much shorter time in Washington. "Senator McCain clearly needs to be recognized for his military service and in some respects that will play to his advantage, but when it actually comes to delivering health care and benefits during war, Senator McCain's going to have some explaining to do," said Paul Sullivan, director of the nonpartisan Veterans for Common Sense.
Supporters of Webb and Hagel's bill dismiss McCain's concerns about the retention issue. While the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the bill would cause a 16% drop in re-enlistment rates across all four branches of the military, the same study also predicts a 16% uptick in new recruits attracted by the benefit. The bill has 58 co-sponsors, including none other than Obama — just two shy of a veto-proof majority. It was passed last week by the House with a comfortable veto-proof majority, but as an amendment to the emergency war supplemental, it could be altered as the two chambers hammer out differences between the two versions. McCain's office is confident that in the reconciliation process a compromise can be worked out. "We're negotiating in good faith and we think they are as well. We want to do something for veterans. We're really working hard to accomplish our goal," said Mark Buse, McCain's Senate chief of staff.
Hypocrite, thy name is McCain. Jonathan Singer at MyDD has more.
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Wake up military . . . Republicans have never, and don't know, give two hoots in hell about you.
"...all of the sacrifices they have borne on our behalf."
I respect the sacrifices that our military personnel have made and continue to make. However, I would like it explained to me how the war in Iraq was possibly "on our behalf." Why did we need this war? What benefit have we gained from it?
I would think bringing a hundred + thousand trained killers back into the country with a great quantity of them having no prospects for gainful employment, might be incentive enough to pass the Vets education portion of this bill. Apparently for Mr. McCain in his gated community it is not.
So just so we're clear: this is a TRUE and very OBVIOUS example of John McCain 'not supporting the troops'. Sorry, sir, thank you for your service, but this is a strenghtening of the GI Bill that was already there and was not something to oppose now, during a war time, when the troops (by this administration) have already been so maligned and short-shrifted. this bill is something they deserve and I, as a taxpayer, don't mind at all my dollars going to support any troop who has wishes to take advantage of these benefits. and, your objection rings even more hollow, sir, when you WEREN'T PRESENT to even vote 'no'. so, no, you can't have it both ways. you were wrong on this bill and always will be. the time to 'take a stand' is not on the backs of the military by opposing this now. there are plenty of other issues to take a fiscal stand on.
"The bill has 58 co-sponsors, including none other than Obama — just two shy of a veto-proof majority."
A veto proof majority is 67 votes...also different than cosponsors, 60 votes is what is needed be filibuster proof.
Sorry, just wanted to make sure we were straight on this.
to of joined
To *have* joined. Sheesh. The bad transcription is still easier to deal with than the speaker's bad faith.
McSame speaks to military veterans as if they were as deaf, mute and blind as the GOP base ! It's 'put up or shut up' time in the GOP. It's time to support the troops with some BEEF, not just bumper stickers, Chinese magnets and lapel pins.
It's great to watch Republicans try and squirm out of supporting this bill.
There's no problem. The compliant, lapdog meedeeawe will cover for him.
Cracker's for Christ @ 3:
Blackwater's probably hiring. Of course, those with physical disabilities or PTSD need not apply.
veterans like me of the "central american reagan wars" get nothing, but bad dreams and a yearning to destroy the military industrial mediatainment congressional big pharma complex.
All military enlistees is obligated for 8 years service in active Duty as well as some inactive time they can also be called up in Stop-Loss anytime within that 8 years.
Losing Troops after a 3 year enlistment ain't going to happen.
The military is suffering from low recruitment. The New GI Bill will encourage more enlistees who will all be obligated for 8 years.
How then is it damaging to military service to have more of a base that would have the chance to have higher educations included in Stop-Loss?
MC Cain cant run from his record and flip flops. They are there in plain black and white or on video. Any Hillary supporter who would support this doddering old fool just because they were beaten by Obama deserves whatever MC Cain will bring.I pity anyone who thinks 4 more years of President Shit For Brains lies and policies are a good idea .
Mc Cain = More death.. more debt.. more deception.
I laughed when I heard McShit in pants break out the "I served and you didn't" card on Obama. This sorry fuck is clearly already desperate. RIGHT NOW IS AS GOOD IN THIS CAMPAIGN AS IT WILL EVER BE FOR MCWAR. And by the way McYellow teeth, Hitler, Stalin, Manson, Dammer, also served in their militaries.
There are a couple of points that have been ignored for various reasons, but deserve closer inspection before deciding improved benefits are too good for our troops.
The additional benefits may actually serve to attract those desiring a education. This war won't last forever and becoming more competitive might be in our best interest long term.
The other thought I had is a bit more delicate. From the reports I've read the military has had to lower entrance requirements to fill the ranks. Are these people the ones likely to use educational benefits?
blah blah blah "I got mine, screw you."
The whole soldier thing is a useful political prop and nothing else.
it's a sad fact that most military , and so many lower and middle class, actually imagine the republican party to be their best hope. why this is is unfathomable for me. i suppose it's the religious right or the gun rights issues?? the democratic party should stay away from the "third rail" issues of guns any ways. blaming guns is like blaming cars for driving drunk.
When you and your family comes from a long line of high ranking Naval officers, your perception of how to treat the front line personnel gets skewed.
This is no surprise. That is why he is OK with staying in Iraq for 100 years.
This incident is a true reflection of what a McCain presidency will look like -- the guy will say anything, and it will mean nothing.
Tax and Spend liberals are trying to shove "welfare" down peoples throats with SR22.
Isn't that the point they are not trying to make?
WW-II Troops enlisted for a time limit "WAR" once the war was over they were no longer obligated to serve. Not true today; all enlistees are obligated for a full 8 years and "Stop-Loss" can extend that time limit.
McCain is a Dumbass!!
Why did the North Vietnamese call Mc Cain " Songbird " anyways ? Did they have karaoke nights at Hanoi Hilton ? Granted, he served, trashed 5 jets, was at center of Forrestal disaster and spent 5 years as a POW. Does this automatically make one a hero ? I think there are a few 527s lined up to tear him a new one anyways. Save the Dems some cash.
Mc Cain says all veterans should get the best care avaiable, then says those who stay in longer should get more care. If all of us get the best, how do we give more to some? How can that be? More McCain B.S.
Republicans want the cheapest, most disposable type of soldiers to fight their illegal wars of empire, 'cause you know, they dont dare put a uniform on themselves. God forbid ! They do not want a big fat bill for all these peeon soldiers once their tours are over.
Talk is cheap. Especially coming from a politician. Dem or repub.
fastfeat @ 9:
Trigger happy thugs and ex-mercenaries get a signing bonus, but you sign over your soul to the Prince of Darkness.
So basically McBush wants to drive a political divide in supporting a GI Bill, Play politics in his campaign with it. Knowingly that his own bill has NO (NO) support other than Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham. That it won't pass and it is not about saving money nor rewarding military service.
As McCain in the first 20 hours of his service in Vietnam was captured.
An Iraqi soldier gets wounded (head concusion etc) in the first 20 hours of his/her service in Iraq. McBush thinks they should have to serve the military longer? Even though that military can't use damaged goods?
McBush is proving he is devisive on issues just for ideology sake. Like % deferment Cheny "the war monger Hawk" and GW " the AWOL guardsman" who during the Vietnam War chose to cut and run from his military obligation then, only now reflects romantically of fighting in a war.
Just a reminder, McCain's military experience that makes him the "old war horse of knowledge" comes from being a vietnamese war POW after serving 20 hours in theater. Bieng shot down in 20 hours could be a record McCain holds as the pilot shot down the fastest.
McShitStain=McCherry-picker.
This is exactly how we got into Iraq with Chimpy, from cherry-picking data to fit the ideology a decision-maker has already committed to. The "16% down" data is the only one McCain wants to look at, it doesn't matter that it's only part A of a 2-parter that includes an equal temperer.
If McCain wins, we will be headed to Iran with the same cherry-picking procedure he and Chimpy are famous for.
Why is one enlistment not enough during a war?
Isnt full benefits the least the government should offer the ones who voluntarily put their lives and health at stake for their country?
McCains lame excuse seems to be it doesnt matter because the government can "never fully compensate them for all the sacrifices" anyway.
And McBush doesn't address the "cost plus" treatment of finances for the contractors(mercs). The treatment of those valued lawless mercs under Condi's State Dept. Their pay, medical care, supplied with armored vehicles first.
Why does John hate the U.S. Military so much?
He loves the contractors enough to shower them with money, support and honor.
Is McCain holding in some deep hatred and resentment of our troops and blames them for his treatment in the Hanoi Hilton??
Johnny must realize he is not in the majority in the Senate nor does his party have a majority in the House or Reps. But McCrazy thinks he'll get a partisan self help campaign GI Bill through to make him look good at dissing the troops?
Which two, Congress-declared wars would these be?
To the best of my knowledge, The War on Low Oil Prices was not formally sanctioned by Congress.
75 or 100 senators voted for the Webb Bill.
Why would McCain hold up such legislation that is overwhelmingly popular and supported by our elected representatives?
I guess he assume all vets will marry rich like he did.
McCain = a-hole.
So you are saying that McHatethetroops is a lying sack of shit and is trying to cover his ass with nonsense? If McHypocrite was any kind of man he would institute a draft but of course he doesn’t have the balls.
Endless "words". Cheap words, NOT backed by action. Photo opts and cliches, that his goons and sheep applaud. Watching this rambling, foolish, head in the sand speech was really painful.
This old fart needs to put on his sweatshirts and his barbaque apron with his chef's hat and start looking like the buffoon he really is; instead of using more "speech words of hollow importance" to try to keep his sheep clapping and smiling along with his treasonous lying and bullshit.
This twisted old fart is finished. Only the fools and idiots will follow, because they have NOTHING ELSE to follow, and they are too blind and deaf to open their minds up to what America "could be". This is truly sad. mcAncient is the saddest of them all. A washed up old man who wants to be preznit so his bitter, nasty bitch mother and his elitist wife can be "oh so proud of little johnny". A walking, talking JOKE.
Shorter McCain: "We need to force our volunteers to volunteer."
Q: When is a draft not a draft?
A: When it's poor people.
You completely omitted why McCain was stressing the need for retention (rather than merely increasing new recruits)... for the creation and development of NCO's (noncommissioned officers) which are the backbone of the military.
I cannot waight until the CORPRATE CONTROLED MEDIA elects John McCain to the White House. I am sitting on the Slective Service System, in Maryland, he will have to bring back the Draft when he ATTACKS IRAN, then I will go to work, and I am here to say that all you CHICKENHAWHS have Chpices Army, Navy, Mariens, Air Force,Coast Guards Or FT LEVINWORTH, so I will be looking for all you GUN HO CHICKENHAWKS.
Just curious...if a soldier gets shot, permanently injured, and sent home in the first week of combat, is he then screwed for life on benefits because he didn't serve enough time?
Madmatt: Unfortunately, yes. They've already required Iraq vets who got signing bonuses to pay back their bonus if they were injured before their required time was up. I don't see that McCain will change that.
Hulk: "Only the fools and idiots will follow.." I agree, but this is an unfortunate observation, as we have an awful lot of fools and idiots in this country. There are far more of them than the informed, which gives McCain more of a shot at the presidency than he ever deserved.
Why continue to make soldiers serve to get everything they're entitled to? Well, let's say you qualify for college and you continue to serve because you haven't gotten your full medical benefits yet. You get killed as a result. They don't have to pay for your medical benefits OR your college now, do they?
When I served I was under the impression that the best way to develop the qualified level of individual that is needed for NCO rank, was to provide a quality military for them to serve in.
Bush, as commander-in-chief, has ruined the military with eight years of bad decisions and dishonesty with the military and the American people.
You're right, of course, about the NCO's, and it's a good point to bring up since not everybody in this conversation has served.
But I think McCain is flat out lying when he tries to imply that the Democratic party -- and particularly Jim Webb (Navy Cross, Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars, 2 Purple Hearts) -- is doing harm to the military by upgrading the GI Bill to a functional financial level.
McCain needs to quit blowing shit. The country can't afford another 4 years of having a horse's ass in the White House. And the military deserves to have somebody with some sense and honesty leading them. McCain seems to be going oiut of his way to show that he has neither.
I figured as much, I just hoped we hadn't turned THAT evil yet! Thanks
Let's not forget, McCain was an officer. College is not a problem for the officer class. In fact, one of the requirements for Officer Candidate School is having earned a four-year degree prior to joining the Army.
McCain isn't for screwing everybody in the military. Just the enlisted personnel.
So, by McCain's standard, coming back maimed during your first enlistment isn't worth as much as coming back maimed after your second? Fuck that son of a bitch, what matters is stepping up to the plate and assuming the the risk.
I agree with Zak44 @ 42, McCain's just up for screwing enlisted ranks.
Zak44 @ 42,
McCain went to the Naval Academy, where he graduated 894th out of his class of 899.
Of course there's no point in suspecting that he managed to pull out 894 because his father and grandfather were admirals in the USN.
John McCain does not know the troops. John McCain was a Navy aviator. It was not like he was an Army or Marine Corps platoon leader or company commander.
He was born into the hierarchy of the Navy and has the attitude of a hierarchical, holier-than-thou officer. He seems totally unaware of the military dictum that if you support the troops, the troops will support you.
Not only was he 894th in his class, he was just an average officer until his stint in the Hanoi Hilton. I praise him for that. He was courageous and an inspiration to others there. That does not qualify him to be President.
Having a trophy wife who is a daughter of a convicted felon would destroy him if he were a Democrat. Where's the press?
Scy @ 1:
Wrong Scy.......the two-party (BOTH democrats & republicans) dictatorship system doesn't care about the U.S. citizens.
Wake up people. Your all being fooled and its right under your noses.
McCain is saying, "I'm stiffing you troops, but because I love you so much you should honor me for it."
Since when did the Democrats become so interested in veterans getting treated fairly compared to WWII veterans?
They (Dems) did nothing to help vets from the Vietnam era gain much-need financial aid. Yes, there was a G.I. Bill for Vietnam-era Vets, but it give them only a monthly stipend based on family size. For instance, a vet with a wife and two children received $383 a month (in the early to mid-70s). The vet was expected to use that money to help pay for tuition, books, and other education-related expenses. I know this because that's what I received while attending a university. That despite the fact that we made our plight known to Democrats and Republicans at the federal and state (Arizona) levels.
John Rhodes, then an Arizona congressman, kindly spoke with a group of us from Arizona State in his Phoenix office. He told us how much he admired the sacrifices we were making to attend school on the GI Bill and laying a foundation for the future of our families. John even went to far to let us know the WWII bill paid for his Harvard education. And it paid for all of it, tution, books, etc. Mr. Rhodes said he knew our bill did not come close by comparision to what he received.
We talked until we were blue in the face, but they listened, and listened, and listened, but did nothing, nada, zilch. Not the Republicans and not the Democrats. Why? I suspect it was because the war in Vietnam was either over or winding down and it just wasn't an overwhelming campaign issue.
Now with an ongoing, unpopular war and it being a campaign issue, apparently the Democrats do care. Or do they really?
What? McLame never lies or spins! He's the driver of the Straight Talk Express. I'm sure his ommission of Sen. Webb's bill boosting recruitment by 16 percent (thereby offsetting the 16 percent loss in retention) was a mistake.
McCain, once you had bank on honor.
Now you got squat.
Hey John, how does Blackwater affect reenlistment rates?
Ellis @ 48,
Given the length of time the GI Bill has been active the "interest" in it has varied, in both parties. Years ago I became interested in the history of it -- since I was someone who earned the benefit -- and tracked some of it down.
When it was first passed FDR was for it, but it was actually a republican politician who pushed for the benefits to be significantly higher than FDR had suggested.
As for getting the benefits raised at the end of VN -- well, as somebody who was there, and was the first in his family to go to school on the GI Bill, I was glad to get what I could, and frankly surprised that they hadn't taken away the opportunity completely, at least from VN vets.
Of course as I learned more about American history I became even more surprised they hadn't taken it away from the Korean vets.
As far as this particular bill is concerned, it is a two-headed monster, sponsored by the two most prominent VN vets of both political partys -- and this fact makes McCain's shame even greater.
As far as the Democrats planning this... Well I suppose it's possible. But any ratfucking that the Democrats do will pale in comparison with the recorded actions of the loathsome putrid filth on the other side of the aisle. (That was a little too poetic, but you get the idea.)
Ellis @ 48:
Not all of the people that were with McCain think he is a HERO, I have heard other storys. Why has this not came to the forfront, as with John Kerry?.
Suzy Mason @ 53:
Also, on top of that $383/$1700 split you have to factor in the astronomical increases in college tuition from the 70's to today.
The GI Bill -- according to an interview with Jim Webb -- has netted, over the full course of the bills history, a return to the US government of $7 for every $1 invested, and that's the least of dividends when the human impact is considered.
In order to get that return the GI Bill has to remain fiscally functional to the current economic realities.
Best to Marine Mason, and family.
McCain came from a well-to-do, privileged military family, he had already graduated from the Naval Academy, and he simply didn't need the GI Bill when he got out. Officers and children of officers don't rely on GI benefits. GI's are the riffraff. Enlisted men are grunts, good for fighting wars and dying. They don't need to be educated. They just have to know how to take orders and fire a gun. That's the only thing that explains his position. That or the Republican establishment has him by the balls and has told him not to dare oppose Bush on anything military-related from now until November.
yeah,imagine that a republican who wont support his fellow veterans. this is the man i am supposed to vote for? most veterans fight, bleed and die for this country so whats wrong with takeing care "of him who has born the burden of combat." this country can spend billons in fighting for causes and countrys that (such as saudi araba) that dont give a DAMN for u.s. i want senater mccain to explain to me why i (a veteran) should vote for a man who sells "him who has born the burden of combat" short. so come mister mccain tell ME why i should vote for you? i thought so? i have had my fell of fair weather patriots!
Under the McCain plan there would be no increase in benefits until you reach 12 years of service. According to McCain this would offer incentive for soilders to stay in longer. Personally, if I knew I had to stay on active duty for 12 years to get education benefits I would not enlist in the first place. Jim Webb has come up with fair plan to compensate our military members who risk they lives, without question, when asked. To increase military retention how about using the military in a responsible manner and not to build nations.
WTF McCain?! So you want me to re-enlist so I can do more time in Iraq? Twice in four years isn't enough? My two tours aren't worth paying for my education? Oh, I get it. If I die in Iraq they won't have to pay anything so the money saved can be used for the war that you want to continue on forever. Prick.
i have two words.
fuck McCain.
OK, technically that is more than two words, since the link is to my own reaction.
but word, and i am glad i am not the only person pissed about this.
Another view:
Any extreme experience will cause the human mind to protect itself by shutting off certain chemical transmission/receptors. rape, abuse, pain (physical/phsycological come to mind). Easily fixed (temporarily) with drugs (saratonin,etc.) This is how we protect ourselves and try to re-adjust later on in life (ptsd/remedy's).
As someone who is familiar with extreme experiences (former pow) I would question the possibility of being able to be rational and logical under all situations that might affect my future while under the influince of remidies and, more importantly, not under the influence of remedies. i.e take the pill - be rational.
don't take the pill - take your chances.
I would not want to trust ME to have a say in your destination in life. I can not, therefore, offer support to anyone with a similar handicap.
Dave
aka Rocky Raccoon
If there are any veterans out there who are supporting John McCain, maybe you can tell me why he has consistently voted against veterans. His Voting Record on Veteran's Issues is dismal.
John McCain has voted "NO" (or no show) on the following Senate votes with respect to Iraq, funding for veterans or for troops, including equipment and armor.
Every Senate vote below has a link to the actual U.S. Senate Roll Call Vote . . . to see how each Senator voted.
• On May 22, 2008: The new 21st Century GI Bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 75-22 (See the actual U.S. Senate Roll Call Vote) and John McCain decided to go on the Ellen DeGeneres Show and then attend a fund raiser for his own campaign at an event held by the San Diego Chargers owner instead of showing up to vote. From the beginning, John McCain strongly argued against the Bill and refused to sign onto it. John McCain was absent and ALL 22 NAY votes were cast by Republican Senators.
• September 2007: John McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments.
• May 2006: John McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.
• April 2006: John McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.
• March 2006: John McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.
• March 2004: John McCain voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes.
• October 2003: John McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000, 000.
• April 2003: John McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.
Nobody should question his patriotism, but being a veteran, an ex-POW, and a man who loves his country, does not qualify him to be president. It gives him the right to apply for the job, but it is up to the citizens of the United States to decide if they want to hire him.
As a veteran, I am disappointed with his non-support of veterans.
Rob - Disabled - Vietnam ’67-‘68
In support of ALL veterans!
For the results of the votes referenced above, go to www.johnmccainin2008.com/issues.php . . . Sorry
link: www.johnmccainin2008.com/issues.php
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