Wasting no time, McCain talks up debate challenges
By Steve Benen Wednesday Jun 04, 2008 12:40pmThe issue of presidential debates can be contentious, which is why there’s a Commission on Presidential Debates, which is supposed to take some of the politics out of it. The CPD has already picked four locations and dates (three for the presidential candidates, one for the VP candidates), which were selected long before anyone knew who the candidates would be.
One assumes John McCain will agree to the schedule, but today, he will renew talk about adding to the existing slate of events.
John McCain will use the first day of the general election to propose additional debates or joint forums beyond the three sanctioned for this fall, according to a McCain source.
At a town hall meeting and press conference in Baton Rouge later this morning, the Republican nominee will make his case for why there should be more engagement between he and Barack Obama.
The first presidential debate is scheduled for September 26th in Oxford, Mississippi, but McCain would like to set up a series of joint appearances.
One such meeting could be just down the road from where McCain is making his case. A coalition of business and civic leaders in New Orleans, which was denied a sanctioned debate, have scheduled a presidential forum for September 18th.
I suspect there are going to be lots of Dems who think this sounds great, and there are, to be sure, some upsides to the idea. But let’s not get hasty here.
This issue first came up in April, when McCain aide Mark McKinnon (who later stepped down from the campaign because he respects Obama so much) suggested the two presidential candidates are respectful and high-minded enough that they could travel across the country discussing the issues of the day in a series of debates.
Obama warmed up to the idea rather quickly.
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said he’d be willing to campaign jointly with Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, and debate him in town-hall style formats.
“I think that’s a great idea,” Obama, 46, told reporters in Bend, Oregon, today as he campaigned ahead of the state’s May 20 primary. “Obviously we would have to think through the logistics on that, but to the extent that should I, should I be the nominee, if I have the opportunity to debate substantive issues before the voters with John McCain, that’s something that I am going to welcome.”
If there’s a perceived “stature gap,” debates help tremendously. Obama can stand toe-to-toe with McCain, and show that he’s more knowledgeable, about more issues.
But there are some real downsides to the idea. Noam Scheiber noted recently:
McCain has several big disadvantages vis-a-vis Obama. He faces a massive enthusiasm gap and will have trouble attracting large crowds. He’s in all likelihood going to be massively outraised and outspent, making it hard to get his message out. And, possibly as a result of the previous problem, he’ll be cast as a right-winger determined to continue George Bush’s policies.
The unmoderated debates would help him overcome all three problems. They’ll draw big crowds and generate lots of buzz. They’ll help him get his message out for free. And, just by virtue of appearing frequently at Obama’s side and having a civil debate, they’ll make him look much more moderate than the Obama campaign wants him to look.
I’d just add that I’m not even sure that Obama’s a better debater than McCain. Obama’s a better speaker, and a smarter leader, but debates aren’t necessarily Obama’s best format. He tends to think in paragraphs, while debates force participants to think in sound-bites.
Alex Massie argued a while back:
In the first place it flatters Obama’s already well-developed sense of himself as a statesman cut from a higher grade of cloth than that worn by other politicians these days. It appeals to his idea of “elevating” politics too. Thirdly, and relatedly, it’s easy to suspect that Obama could be weary of having to play the “gotcha” game favoured by the likes of Tim Russert, Chris Matthews and the rest of the blowhards who moderate “traditional” debates and, consequently, that he’d be open to anything that stymied their desire to referee the contest.
All true. And this no doubt helps explain why the McCain campaign started baiting Obama with the idea to begin with.
To be sure, these events wouldn’t necessarily be bad for Obama. If the discussions center on policy, Obama would no doubt welcome the opportunity to highlight the fact that on the issues people care about most, Obama is part of the mainstream and McCain isn’t. For that matter, McCain tends to come off great in town-hall meetings, but largely because no one’s there to point out how wrong he is. If he’s sharing a stage with Obama, McCain may enjoy himself far less.
But all things being equal, Obama might have more to lose. There’s a reason the McCain campaign is pushing the idea, and it’s not their love of spirited discourse.
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i hope obama understands that mccain doesn't get to call the shots all the time........ would like to be able to use video on demand like youtube.......mccain hates youtube
Wet Start Johnny needs to understand that he doesn't get to call the tune.
Obama should counter with an offer to have the discussions over rounds of golf, or games of basketball.
In agreeing to such "town hall" format as proposed by Mccain, Obama will seem to let him dictate the terms of the debate. Moreover, Obama will be giving up an advantage he has- better funded and can travel to meet with the electorate on his own terms.
Please. This will be like the Kennedy/Nixon debates, but in color. Bring it, McNixon!
the Commission on Presidential Debates sucks, and is antidemocratic.... just sayin'
that said, i do agree that debates are radically important, but--always--keep mccain's intent in mind.
does he really want an open and honest debate, or is he trying to rub up against obama to get a little of his energy and excitement. i lean towards the latter.
i also assume mccain is trying to do what hillary was not successful doing: baiting obama into fighting in the mud.
but really, lose the Commission on Presidential Debates. let's come up with a democratic, non-partisan commission. eh?
Whoever is asking for debates is losing.
NO..mc same...I'LL let you know,if any, debates as your a lieing lost cause so why waste America time.
Rusty Shackleford @ 2:
i like the basketball counter offer.... aligator arms won't have a chance
Debates are I agree not Obama's best forum.
He faltered a bit during the primary debates.
That said, that is why you have handlers and trainers. Obama is simply too intelligent a guy not to be able to learn how to debate. He knows the issues. We are only talking about style here.
Please, please, PLEASE let Bill Moyers do a nationallly televised, prime time discussion with both of them.
McCain will come off looking like a fool. (Which he is, of course.)
fiver @ 6:
Very true.
Maybe they should have at least a couple so Obama can make the stark contrast between their policies in a mixed crowd. I doubt after one or two that McBush III would be up to any more. I like the idea of statement rebuttal. Obama could use that to wipe the floor with McBush III. Personally, I won't even watch the "pundit" debates. They aren't debates!!! But I would definitely tune in to a town hall with the two candidates.
If we get a science debate, I'll be happier :)
Awww. The old thing just wants people to show up to hear him ramble, and having Obama there is the only we he can think of to draw a crowd.
but, really, if we have the same types of debates as we saw in the primaries, why have any at all?
debates are crucial to the democratic process.
faux-debates, the status quo, are harmful to the democratic process.
i would like to see a live debate with the integration of youtube as part of the format so when mccain i never said that or voted for that it could right in your face.....maybe to complicated
Good analysis.
McCain is making a huge mistake challenging Obama to open debate. Good.
Obama will come across as the thoughtful, honest person that he is, and he will make a few mistakes, which the McCain Media will play for months on end.
McCain will parrot the usual talking points, and fumble a few of his lines, which the McCain Media will pass off as harmless senior moments.
But the viewers will know who the smartest man in the room is, without a doubt.
McCain just wants to use Obamas campaign money and large crowds to get his message out with townhall meetings
Probably the only way McCain can get people to come and listen to him is to have Senator Obama there with him. Lately the people at his town hall meetings look they came from Rent-an-Audience.
For some reason the MSM is all over this joint town hall thing. They've grabbed it with both hands.
Obama said he would debate McCain anytime and any where, but he didn't say he would debate him every time McCain called for it.
It would not be wise to allow McCain to dictate the terms of this election. What he is trying to do is get on top of the race by being its director. Obama should point this out.
He wants "town hall" meetings as the format. I think Obama will do well in that situation . . . better than McSame, in fact. This could be McSame's "bring it on" moment.
It all depends on the moderators, eh?
WhalersFan @ 19:
The more people see McCain the better! He is the dinosaur remnant of the past. He is the best and brightest of the Neocon criminals that have
controlled the US for the last 40 years.
The CW has it that McShrub does well in town hall meetings. I'm not so sure. It was town hall meetings that produced "100 years" of war, "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran", and McShrub calling a kid a "little jerk". I do think a format that eliminates the talking heads is desirable for many reasons, not the least of which is that it takes away some of the corporate media's empowerment.
I have confidence that Obama is smart enough and a skilled enough communicator that he will weigh the pros and cons of any format, choose the one that is to his advantage and come out a winner.
Remember, McShrub is the one proposing more debates, in whatever forum, because he is desperate for exposure, which will come naturally to Obama. I mean, who wants to sit through a speech like the awful blather that we witnessed Tues. night from McShrub?
I don't think you allow the enemy to choose the battleground, do you?
This is OT, but . . . Don't you folks think that Hillary would be a good Attorney General? Wouldn't that scare the crap out of the corrupt Republicans? Just asking.
CannibalPlanet @ 23:
What could a moderator do to help McCain? Tell the old man to shut up?
McCain is a horrible at debates, remember the republican debates when ron paul asked him a question and he looked at Ron paul like a dog that had just been shown a card trick ? and ended up sounding like Miss south Carolina
Underground Pirate @ 28:
Gently steer him back to the podium. Did you see him in Louisiana yesterday? He was wandering all over the place.
Elder care facilities sometimes put a figure-eight-shaped walking path on their grounds, for Alzheimer's patients who tend to wander off. It gives them a place where they can safely walk. Will there need to be one installed at the White House?
andy @ 29:
God, that video was so perfect.
andy @ 29:
that was an economy question it was classic.......paul knows mccain doesn't know dewdew about the economy
What does McCain know a lot about?
Liberal AND Proud @ 9:
I would add that there is a difference between debating within your own party and going full tilt after the other party's positions. Obama could have been faltering because he was holding back.
It's time to take greedy right-wing corporations out of our national political debates. Let's bring back the truly non-partisan League of Women Voters. Let's have the debates televised by C-SPAN and then let the lying corrupt corporate media pick up the C-SPAN feed.
Does anyone remember the big live Debate that the West Wing did in final season?
Its going to be like that...except John McCain won't be Alan Alda, he'll be closer to Pauly Shore/Sylvester Stallone combo...
Here's a great quote from that:
"Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created Social Security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. Liberals created Medicare. Liberals passed the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act. What did Conservatives do? They opposed them on every one of those things...every one! So when you try to hurl that label at my feet, 'Liberal,' as if it were something to be ashamed of, something dirty, something to run away from, it won't work, Senator, because I will pick up that label and I will wear it as a badge of honor." -- Matt Santos, The West Wing
pissed off patricia @ 33:
living within and off the government.....pandering to k-street and flip-flopping
Alternatively, we could just take the "best of" of all the many GOP and Dem debates held in the last five months and rebroadcast them. There certainly would be enough material to go around...
Underground Pirate @ 24:
He's kind of been hiding at townhall meetings and the news media hasn't been covering the gaffes esp. for the NO speech they couldn't ignore. So yeah, bring him out in the open and let low info types know who this republican is. He's eight years older than the last time he ran and his positions have changed just as much!
pissed off patricia @ 33:
Shoving his nose up the crack of the player du jour.
McINeedACane is the worst Republican candidate ever. There would have been some glimmer of hope with Mittens, but they are now stuck with this Bush carbon copy. As for debates, I'd admit Obama could have done better in some of the debates. However, he's up against the gaffster himself, there is no contest. The list of gaffes is a mile long, and most of which came from townhall meetings.
pissed off patricia @ 33:
1 Blonds
2 Booze
3 Bullshit
I like the format where the opponents get to ask each other questions and challenge each other directly. You know, like an actual debate.
Talk about sloppy-seconds! McDracula just wants to feed off of the energy from everybody coming to see Obama. Nobody is gonna pack a forum to see Johny.
james k. sayre @ 35:
i like this idea....they have been part of the propaganda put the debates on c-span have a damn computer ask the questions
Matt in Texas @ 10:
The Moyers idea is great IMO. Good One!
I mean we hear he is strong on defense. What the hell does that mean? Does it mean he sings a song about bombing a country and then goes and bombs that country and its people all to hell and back? That's not strong, that's mean.
Cantor de Mambo @ 22:
I agree with you on that point. I think Obama will hold his own during a town hall meeting. He is a smart man plus he doesn't have as much political baggage like McCain. True, it is possible that he will stumble on a question or two but McCain runs the risk that a question might be thrown to him that McCain doesn't want to answer. His past involvement in the Keating five or that his campaign is stacked with lobbyists comes to mind.
I bet the McCain campaign wants to bring these town hall meetings to the forefront and hopes that the Obama campaign accepts because they have already picked the locations and are moving to stack the crowd with McCain supporters. Plus, it will give McCain a lot more media exposure as well.
President PNACcio @ 18:
Be the smartest doesn't guarantee anything. Remember, Dummya got elected twice over guys that have 30 IQ points on him.
McCain reminds me of someone who can hide their own easter eggs .
He should be thankful that he does not have to debate ( my man ) George Galloway , because he would stroke out .
Well Obama's campaign has made very very few mistakes so far so I trust them to know what they are doing.
It just rubs me the wrong way that McCain started calling the shots almost before the campaign was over.
Normally I don't believe presidential "debates" are worth a load of warm dingo kidneys, but it's difficult to see how they could not help Mr. Obama in the current situation.
Put the fumbling, giggling, clearly senile McCain (as judged by the "green background" speech he gave the other night) up against the articulate, inspiring Mr. Obama, and only the most despicable racist could fail to recognize the clearly superior candidate.
pissed off patricia @ 47:
it's the song but more importantly the strong on defense is code for pandering to k-street and military industrial complex......100 years in iraq...wall street loves it...there will casualties mccain...occupying that region will cost more lives
dosido @ 34:
Agreed. The Democratic platform is the Democratic platform. Debating Hillary was an exercise in hair splitting, and tyring to not appear rude or disrespectful in the process.
The gloves are off in debating McCain. The policy differences are huge. There is still the issue of not appearing rude to an elder person or disrespectful of a veteran, but those can be dealt with.
pissed off patricia @ 51:
Not calling the shots, trying desperately to get in range.
I predict that McSame will never debate Obama. He can't and he all ready knows it. To imagine that he can do so if Obama has the facts in hand about McSame's inability to tell the truth will prevent any such debates. We will have a new attack before then, and there will be no more debates.
Does anyone think we are going to really have an election? I would say, "only if george and dick and rummy and condi all have plans on moving to another country prior. For they won't want to live in prison for the remainder of their lives.
McCain wants to have a civil debate "on the issues" while his associates run the dirty campaign.
This troubled me when McCain first suggested it. Why would the man who can't remember what he said yesterday and doesn't know Shi'ite from Shinola want to go one on one with an opponent who is obviously at least 40 IQ points sharper? It's more than McCain's outsized ego talking; his advisors would shut the deal down if they didn't think it would somehow show Obama in a bad light.
But they may be "misunderestimating" Obama's ability as a debater. He speaks haltingly in the moderated debates, which I had assumed to be due to his reflective nature. But it could be due to the structure of those debates. And I felt that Obama went to great lengths to avoid coming down too hard on Hillary, so as to not be seen as the big scary black man threatening the poor widdle white girl. Without that constraint, he would be a tiger, and the last thing The War Hero would want is to cast himself as a Victim.
I can't imagine McCain doing it without a some sort of "wire," for an aide to feed him facts. And there is tremendous potential for this to produce a McCain temper tantrum. So why would he want to do it? Just to get free air time? If so, he's more desparate than Hillary has been the last two months.
With dentures that whistle like his do, McPain in the A** would be better off not speaking too much. Those choppers are going to rat him out as a geezer and if Obama pisses him off enough he might lose them on national TV
Joe O. @ 48:
that's what scares me mccain graduated from the naval academy number 894 out of 899 he is a shoe in ..people in this country or at least half of them are concerned about having a beer with the guy not how smart he is
McCain is just trying to dictate this election. The ideas are good, but it should be a joint agreement. It seems like he's trying to call all the shots, and prepared to try to make Obama look bad when he does not agree.
AS long as the debates are not hosted by my ex-pal Charlie Gibson or that hack George Stepalloverus I will be happy with whatever format.
Any Time
Any Place
Any Forum
Bring it on !
Haven't McSame's keepers informed him he looks and sounds WORSE than Bush when he opens his mouth !!!
McSame's best chance is to hide under a rock until November because if you dont know TODAY who you're voting for in November, then you dont deserve to have a vote.
pissed off patricia @ 47:
"strong on defense" means, historically, that we are strong on offense. which entails subversion of democracy, economic straightjackets for 'developing' countries, propping up strong men, and the such. which, it turns out, comes back to bite us in the ass, making us weaker and less safe. see, 911.
thus, 'strong on defense' means that we are making america less secure. how's that orwellian doublespeak for you?
Just for emphasis.
"The unmoderated debates would help him (McCain) overcome all three problems. They’ll draw big crowds and generate lots of buzz. They’ll help him get his message out for free. And, just by virtue of appearing frequently at Obama’s side and having a civil debate, they’ll make him look much more moderate than the Obama campaign wants him to look."
The post notes that the town hall format solves his crowd-attraction problem. But does it? Who is going to show up for these debates? If you have 15000 Obama supporters lined up outside waiting and 1000 McCain people, the questions are gonna be tough on McCain and easy on Obama. McCain is looking good in town hall meetings because the people who are attending them either already believe what McCain is telling them or are very open to the idea of his presidency. When you stack the hall with Obama partisans (and it will be an unmoderated event, right, so how can McCain force Obama to let an equal number of his supporters in?), then the chance for a major Obama gaffe goes down and the opportunity for McCain to look like an idiot skyrockets.
Bring it on.
To the extent that that Lincoln-Douglas style debates would draw bigger crowds than McCain could ever draw on his own, could we arrange the seating like a wedding? Bride's guests on one side of the aisle; groom's on the other?
I'd love to see the jam-packed, diverse lot of Obama supporters looking to their sides at the several dozen or so elderly, white McCain supporters on the other side of the room.
Alex @ 65:
That's certainly possible. We should also note that almost all of McCain's major gaffes, like "Make it 100 years" have slipped when he let his guard down at town hall gatherings.
Just beware of McCain's sudden need for a "hearing aid", and be sure to watch for "lumps" as well.
fiver @ 6:
Exactly!
I believe the Obama campaign has already stated the opinion that these townhall/debates should resemble the Lincoln/Douglas debates. The way Lincoln and Douglas debated was to take turns giving speeches. They each gave a long speech and followed their opponent with a shorter rebuttal speech.
I see no indication that McCain is good in the townhall format. Most of his big gaffes have taken place in the townhall setting. I could see him losing his temper if he was challenged on a gaffe by Obama. These debates would not be like the Republican Reagan fan club debates, where each candidate tried to out Reagan the other while having little difference between them on the issues. McCain would seen audiences that differ dramatically from what he sees now.
My guess is that after two or three townhall/debates McCain would be in deep trouble.
I'm trying to understand McLame's strategy in proposing these now. OK, so he's not so hot in scripted situations, but to call for a series of Town Hall-style, head-to-head confrontations, three months before the end of the Conventions, with a man that is clearly his intellectual and articulate superior, is bazaar. What could he be thinking? One thought that occurred is that the Repugs have pretty-much decided that McCain can't beat Obama and that unless he can show him up between now and September, they'll opt for somebody else...that, combined with what they may call their own 'rope-a-dope' strategy - namely that the public will grow so tired of watching Obama pulverize the 'old man' in sessions leading up to the conventions that they'll actually start to feel sorry for him, to the point of voting for him if only out of sympathy.
Of course the media loves the idea, they don't have enough to talk about between now and the conventions so why in hell not have a series of 'pre-season'-type events where they can call the blow-by-blows, get paid for appearances and look for ways to keep this race close - at least perceptually-speaking.
I think Obama should call his bluff - after referring to this as yet another 'stunt' that McLame and the Repugs are dreaming up out of desperation - call his bluff with a 'conditional' acceptance...the condition being that he'll, Obama, participate in the series of TownHall sessions three months early, 'if' the Republicans agree to cancel the Conventions...move the election date up two months to the first Tuesday in September...and the Inauguration up to October 20. Maybe that way we can keep Bush/Cheney from attacking Iran before they're out of office and saving us the trouble of Impeaching their asses in the event they do decide to bomb 'em.
John have green background now. Him get real mad in debate. Maybe him throw chair.
let's not forget, the CPD is - pardon the language - but a piece of shit. they took it over so the Repubs and Dems could keep out the Ross Perots and Ralph Naders of the world and keep their hegemonic corporatocracy intact. Eff em.
Beware Repugnants bearing gifts.
Barack Obama should schedule every debate possible with John McCain, on every conceivable subject. Kick his ass every time, show that he, Obama, is the one that's really prepared to be a great president.
John McCain is a tired old man with a history of corruption, racism and opportunistic flip-flopping on lots of issues. There's enough rhetorical land mines in his history for dozens of debates.
Kick his ass, Barack.
Does anybody have information on the preplanned debates that are already scheduled for the candidates? Are they going to be moderated? If so, by who?
The fear I have is that Barack will have the least talk time on any mainstream debate that is televised. McCain will most likely have less time than the moderator. I believe there should be a few Townhall style debates so the people can structure the debate, no the candidates or moderator. Moderators of late will do Obama no favors during a nationally televised debate.
karl @ 8:
Easy there, tiger. Please keep in mind that the injuries causing the "alligator arms" were inflicted during his service to our country. I don't like the idea of a McCain presidency either, but let's draw some boundaries somewhere.
I would suggest that the polite answer would be; Go fuck yourself, McSame. I'll debate you when there is another viable candidate for President. Until then, shut your wrinkled pie hole and don't quit your day job...
I say hold off on any debates until much later... possibly post convention. Let McCain try to get his message out on his own for awhile.
HE'S LOOKING FOR FREE PUBLICITY. Don't take the bait. Get to know voters. Stay on message. Then get to the debate as we get closer.
David N @ 50:
Right on. I sometimes play the Galloway testimony where he dresses down (no pun intended) little Norm Coleman. A beautiful sight to behold.
Let's stage a debate in the Green Zone. Symbolic, but it would hit 2 birds with 1 stone.
In a town hall format the crowd will be split 50/50 (I'm assuming by ticket allocation) so they would have the same number of supporters (for cheering or hissing) which would favor McSame.
If the crowd favored Obama, it could make it look unfair to McSame with him getting a sympathy vote.
No, I don't see much upside to this proposal for Obama.
NO, make McSame pathetically try to read the teleprompters as he reads speeches written for him before small crowds of tired repugs.
Let people see really see what their choice is.
Barack Obama is a gentleman and McCain is not. It was so obvious with his contacts with Hillary that he is not a mud slinger. All he has ever done was defend himself against her accusations and charges. The same will happen with McCain. Obama should avoid these meeting simply because McCain has everything to gain and nothing to lose. Obama does not need this. He should also avoid Hillary and her no-good husband as his Vice. They don't deserve to run.
Excellent point, all of them, but the downsides stand out.
Obama will have plenty of chances to strut his statesman oratory stuff with the scheduled debates. He knows what's what, and will keep his ego in check, and not be tempted by the bait.
The last line of your article sums it up perfectly. I hope the Obama people see it!
Obama and his camp better damn well know who the moderators and sponsors are and there better be strict rules and agreements , no transmitter / ear pieces for MCsame either . Can't trust the Nazi party at all . Obama should have countered with his own offer or challenge and be in control of when , where and who . If these town hall meetings are fair Obama will make MCsame look like a fool but who knows what the Repug Mcsame camp is up to and will try and pull , cannot put anything past these guys .
If McCain is for it, I'm against it. I agree with all above. Obama is a great speaker, not so much a debater for some reason. The debates became pretty lackluster once Edwards got out. There's too much to lose, nothing to gain by sharing a McCain homespun style stage. I'm for debates moderated by the League of Women Voters as in days of yore - formal, professional, policy debates held on ABC, CBS, or NBC - or not at all. No more cable ghetto; no more pundit run infotainment.
woodguy @ 80:
Thanks for the Galloway reference. I didn't know who he was so I looked at the video of his Senate testimony. I wish more of our Dems had his fire and defiance. He's impressive. I love his quote about Norm Coleman " To be accused of a lack of moral character by Senator Norm Coleman is a bit like being told to sit up straight by The Hunchback of Notre Dame." Beautiful, Coleman is a Liebermanesque turncoat ,without a single ounce of integrity.
I thought this was explained very well. I am not sure that McCain is as good a debater, as many others have suggested. I have seen him go straight into tongue-tied mode, on several questions, which he was not expecting. He then goes into 'change the subject-speech' mode. So far, he has been let off the hook, and not challenged by the questioner. He will find this difficult to do with a large audience watching.
It seems like everything will hinge on the debate format. I hate debates where the format becomes little more than two candidates trading turns making speeches. Rather, I like a format where both candidates get the same question, and the moderator gets the hell out of the way and lets them get after it, like submission fighting (no I do not watch it).
Why debate the clown?
Johnny is screwing himself up just fine, thank you.
karl@8 Shouldn't that be alligator mouth and humming bird ass? The only crowd " old pawn" can draw have wings and and gather on piles of shit to lay eggs.--CEO
Rosco p @ 87 , check out his speech to the House of Lords in Jan of 2007 .
futt the wuck @ 89 , wasnt it Napoleon who said never correct your enemy when they are making a mistake .
Clinton wiped the floor with Obama in the primary debates. She knew facts and numbers, and was focused. Obama was good at painting visions and themes, and got bored quickly with the wonky stuff.
McCain is an older, near senile, less smooth Republican version of Obama. He's great at the personal level, loves to talk in generalities, and just plain fumbles facts. Whether he's out and out lying or just suffering a misfiring neuron or two is hard to determine from his public persona.
Which one has most to lose from any debates is hard to say. Both sides would be hoping for a public meltdown by their opponent. That grand "Nixon" moment which negatively defines a candidate for the balance of the campaign.
Certainly debates are not about knowledge and competence. Bush was re-elected in 2004, and that's all one needs to know about the value of debates as a measure of worth and the profound stupidity of a large number of voters.
Why would Obama give the republicans or their media stooges any greater opportunity to frame his presidential campaign than they already have?
uhm, mcsame drew an audience of 1200 on tuesday night, and Obama had about 50,000
so who do you think is gonna have the larger share of audience support at these little events ???
mcsame might get the idea during the first debate when the audience is full of people with hot tar, feathers, and rails
then we could write the history of the gop and call it: "from rail splitter to rail rider"
What a bunch of cowards on this list! All I hear is how McCain has no chance and would come off foolish. If that is the case, why are you all so terrified of the prospect of Obama and McCain actually facing off in an unscripted format?
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