Fight Hoyer's Compromise: UPDATED 1 & 2
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Jun 18, 2008 2:00pm
John mentioned our new coalition, Strange Bedfellows, earlier and I can't reiterate more strongly the need to fight Blue Dogs like Steny Hoyer, so if you can donate, please do so. Think of the message it sends to Congress that we are willing to fight our own if they don't represent us and our Democratic values the way they should.
Steny Hoyer's "compromise" on FISA is odd, to put it mildly--infuriating to put it accurately. With a majority in the Senate, why the need for a compromise? Is it that Hoyer is just afraid not to be invited to any more cocktail parties by his Republican brethren? Even the NY Times calls it ridiculous. Booman:
Glenn Greenwald has been leading the charge against Steny Hoyer's FISA capitulation plan. It's very comforting to see that the New York Times' editorial board agrees with us that Hoyer's plan is an outrage:
[..]The bill is not a compromise. The final details are being worked out, but all indications are that many of its provisions are both unnecessary and a threat to the Bill of Rights. The White House and the Congressional Republicans who support the bill have two real aims. They want to undermine the power of the courts to review the legality of domestic spying programs. And they want to give a legal shield to the telecommunications companies that broke the law by helping Mr. Bush carry out his warrantless wiretapping operation.
Bingo. The editorial goes on to detail the sham more thoroughly. The big 'concession' in this deal is that the matter of retroactive immunity for telecom corporations will be decided in a federal district court rather than in the ultra-secret FISA court.[..]
Here's the meat of this issue. All electronic surveillance involving U.S. citizens must be carried out in accordance with the FISA law. And, provided that the law is followed there can be no liability for telecom corporations or anyone else that provides assistance. That's laid out here(emphasis mine):
(i) Bar to legal action
No cause of action shall lie in any court against any provider of a wire or electronic communication service, landlord, custodian, or other person (including any officer, employee, agent, or other specified person thereof) that furnishes any information, facilities, or technical assistance in accordance with a court order or request for emergency assistance under this chapter for electronic surveillance or physical search.
Good God, is this why we elected a Democratic majority in 2006? So they can continue to enable the Bush administration as more and more independent sources have verified the criminality that we've claimed correctly all along?
UPDATE 1: CQ Politics and WSJ are reporting the deal is done. Hoyer, capitulating until the end, tries to spin it:
Hoyer said that if a deal was finalized, he would support it, even though he " would not like it." He said he would have preferred the original House version of the legislation which didn't include retroactive immunity for the phone companies.
But he said that if a compromise bill wasn't brought forward, pressure would come from the Democratic caucus to allow a vote on the Senate version of the legislation which includes full retroactive immunity for the phone companies.[..]
"No matter how they spin it, it is still immunity, period," said Kevin Bankston, senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a group involved in the lawsuits.
Don't take this lying down. McJoan has some ideas of what you can do, including asking our new putative head of the Democratic Party, Presidential Nominee Barack Obama, to kill this before it comes to a vote:
Call Barack Obama and urge him to make a public statement reiterating his opposition to telco amnesty. His opposition could kill this deal: Phone (202) 224-2854, Fax (202) 228-4260
Call Steny Hoyer and tell him this is a bad deal: Phone (202) 225-4131, Fax (202) 225-4300
Call Nancy Pelosi and urge her to pull the bill from the House schedule: Phone (202) 225-4965, Fax (202) 225-8259
Call your representative and tell them to vote no on the FISA rewrite tomorrow.
UPDATE 2: Empty Wheel has more:
As Glenn says, the "immunity" provision here sucks ass. Here's the operative language:
[A] civil action may not lie or be maintained in a Federal or State court against any person for providing assistance to an element of the intelligence community, and shall be properly dismissed, if the Attorney General certifies to the district court of the United States in which such action is pending that
[snip]
(4) the assistance alleged to have been provided by the electronic communication service provider was --
(A) in connection with intelligence activity involving communications that was (i) authorized by the President during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007 and (ii) designed to prevent or detect a terrorist attack, or activities in preparation of a terrorist attack, against the United States" and
(B) the subject of a written request or directive, or a series of written requests or directives, from the Attorney General or the head of an element of the intelligence community (or the deputy of such person) to the electronic communication service provider indicating that the activity was (i) authorized by the President; and (ii) determined to be lawful.
Contrary to what the WSJ suggested, this provision puts no restrictions on whether the directives were authorized by anyone but the President--all it takes to get off scott free, in this bill, is for the President to have said the program was legal, regardless of whether it was or the whether the telecoms should have questioned whether the directives were legal.
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compromise?
more like a steny sell-out, fold and capitulation, all wrapped in one fat eggroll.
steny, i hope you find yourself on the unemployment line in the near future. the country would be better off that way.
Oh well, it looks like the Republicans will be in charge for the next 4 years no matter who is elected...
I'm sure he got his before agreeing to this. The problem with pols is that they can ALL be bought, including little Obama.
Hoyer must be voted out of the House at the earliest opportunity. These fake Democrats are selling out America.
Years ago, I commuted a lot by car. The last time I ever listened to Rush Limbaugh (before AirAmerica Radio) he said: "I look forward to the day when the Democratic Party is on the tash heap of history." I thought what a sick, unamerican thing to say and hope for.
It's happened.
Senator Barack Obama
Campaign: 866-675-2008 option 6 keep trying
His office Fax: 202-228-4260 I got through earlier
Nancy Pelosi: Her web page is down, Congress not Speaker. http://speaker.house.gov/contact/
FAX: 202-225-4188
Free online faxing: http://faxzero.com/ (two per day free per email address)
Years ago, I commuted a lot by car. The last time I ever listened to Rush Limbaugh (before AirAmerica Radio) he said: “I look forward to the day when the Democratic Party is on the trash heap of history.” I thought what a sick, unamerican thing to say and hope for.
It’s happened.
(would be nice if we could edit our comments....)
Write, call, whatever! Make it strong!!
Dear Representative Johnson,
I am writing in strong protest of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 to be immediately submitted to the House of Representatives.
This legislation is being sold to the Congress and public alike as a bipartisan effort to "make us more safe". There is nothing more misleading than the subversion of Constitutional rights under the guise of civil protection, where it is in reality a bipartisan effort to protect criminality and strip Americans of privacy.
If you give support to this monstocity, I will give my full support to notifying the voters of Illinois 15th congressional district of the nature of your vote and what it means to our law, our freedoms and our future.
This issue is of utmost importance to all citizens, and cannot be allowed to be slipped past an uninformed public.
Please consider this vote carefully. Our great nation must not be sold out!
Bushie @ 6:
And what are we supposed to say?
Stop!?
Ryan in IL @ 8:
Too late. It already has been bought and sold. I'm afraid the only remedy now is armed insurrection.
Really. The Constitution has been trampled. There are no checks and balances. What's left to do?
I faxed letters to Stainy Whorer, Pelosi and Obama.
This bill sells out right for which countless of hundreds of thousands of Americans since the founding of our country have died. Our Constitution is written with the blood of patriots and its very foundation stands on the backs of those who laid down their lives protecting it. This capitulation dishonors all those people and disrespects the living who depend on our Constitutional guarantees of liberty to remain free.
That was the essence of the letter with lots of other objections and exhortations. We could use Hillary's four testicles about now. I hope my man Obama steps up (but I kinda doubt it.)
Liberty is dead.
A pox on all who killed it.
I'm not a lawyer (or very smart), but would this stand up to the Supreme Court? Even THIS SC?
I'll be watching President Obama closely next year to see if he can REALLY change Washington by avoiding being co-opted by corporate whores like Hoyer and Pelosi. Hoyer needs to be voted out just like his Republican thug cronies.
Can someone research this? Which telco (or telcos) have little Stenny in their back pocket?
this deal is done.....behind closed door negotiations....
this admnistration has too much power as do the telecom cos..........subsides and taxation...best congress money can buy....nice short opinion
http://antifascist-calling.blogspot.com/2008/06/democrats-ready-to-gut-c...
You knew it was coming.
Washington is the wild west without a sheriff.
casper46 @ 13:
Maybe not, but the point is someone will have to take it to them. In the meantime, all the current lawsuits against the telcos get put on hold (if we're lucky) or smacked down (if we're not). Even if the court overturns it, it'll take time, effort, money, and someone to step up. Better to kill it before it gets that far.
whoever votes for this should have their names posted so opposition to their next run for office is bitterly contested nothing like a 2 party system to the same type of governance only under different brands all that is different is the packaging
Maybe the (supposed demos) should look at what the party is suppose to be and follow that and have their oath of office posted in their offices so they can see what it is they swore to defend
Evan Bayh of Indiana is bought and paid for as well.
theWalrus @ 10:
True that it's been bought and sold, but the vote has not happened yet. By giving up, we would be as low as those who will "give up" and support it on the floor.
While I have contacted the Obama office and remember CALL YOUR OWN REPS CALL YOUR OWN REPS. There is so much to this story that we do not know. WHY WOULD THE DEMS GO ALONG WITH THIS WHY WOULD THEY ROLL OVER AND BEG? Hoyer, Pelosi and the rest have either been complicit or there is a great deal more to the "Enemies are within the gates" piece that they are not letting us know about.
THIS IS GOING TO BE SO BAD FOR THE DEMS WHY ARE THEY ROLLING OVER AND BEGGING? THIS IS GOING TO HURT THEM IN THE FALL. THERE HAS TO BE A REAL THREAT OF A VERY SERIOUS NATURE OR THEY OR THEIR COMPLICITY IN THE PAST IS BEYOND BELIEF
CALL YOUR OWN REPS.
Also over at INFORMATION CLEARING HOUSE A GREAT DEAL BEING WRITTEN ABOUT THE ISRAELI HAMAS NEGOTIATIONS. ALSO A GREAT DEAL ABOUT ATTACKING IRAN. HAS THE U.S. AND ISRAEL STRUCK A DEAL WE WILL GO ALONG WITH A PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE ON IRAN IF THEY WILL DEAL WITH HAMAS? SOMETHING IS IN THE WORKS
Congressional Dems and GOPers are simply two sides of the same coin. The Dems didn't give it. They wanted this just as badly as the GOPers. They are all, with few exceptions, craven and treasonous slime.
Anyone who votes for the "We will continue to Spy on Americans" needs to be outed and kicked out of office.
Yes, that would include Democrats.
This is the last straw.
Obama is going to lose a lot of supporters if he does not take a strong stand. I already called his office and expressed my outraged and told them I will not help if he does not come out with a statement AGAINST this non-compromise.
Dave @ 14:
sure, easy. here are steny 'quid pro quo' hoyer's top donors for 2008
Top 5 Contributors
Steny H. Hoyer 2007 - 2008
1 JPMorgan Chase & Co $21,500
2 Comcast Corp $19,500
3 MacAndrews & Forbes $14,797
4 Kindred Healthcare $14,600
5 Mantech International $11,000
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00001821
Let this be a lesson to everyone who believes that it is worth voting for the "lesser" of two evils come election time.
It's time to get rid of most of both parties.
theWalrus @ 9:
As the Democratic Presidential candidate your support of the Constitution is critical. A response is needed today to oppose retroactive immunity for Telecoms. Please support the 4th amendment and send a strong message to Congress that you oppose immunity for illegal wiretap.
I, in my elegant, scholarly missive wrote:
As the Democratic Presidential candidate your support of the Constitution is critical. A response is needed today to oppose retroactive immunity for Telecoms. Please support the 4th amendment and send a strong message to Congress that you oppose immunity for illegal wiretap.
Call Nancy Pelosi at 202-225-0100 and speak your outrage. You will be forced into a message line, but make sure to speak your dissatisfaction with this ridiculous mess.
Contact your representatives!
Hoyer is a Chicken-Shit traitor and corrupt Reslug enabler that needs to be thrown out of office.
FunMe @ 23:
i agree but i would like to see more dems support him if he does speak up otherwise the repubs. will continue that "the most liberal senator" theme.....i know that appears to be a sell out but he does have to pick his battles carefully...right now he has plenty of battles
If you're going to refer to sites that require registration and/or money, like CQ Politics and the WSJ,
it would be good to say so when doing it.
TRAITORS to their country, the Constitution, their Oath of office. ENABLERS, all who will vote for this immunity. Vote them all out come November - Democrats, Republicans or Independents -- all who vote for this need to be removed from office. Better yet, let's just do away with Congress.
If all they want to do is consent, even to blatantly unlawful and unconstitutional legislation, there's no need for Congress. Just let the Unitary Executive be the dictator it thinks it is anyway.
Preserving the Constitution IS the line in the sand for me.
Mr. Obama, speak out against this travesty!
True that it’s been bought and sold, but the vote has not happened yet. By giving up, we would be as low as those who will “give up” and support it on the floor.
They're bringing up the vote tomorrow at the same time as the War Funding bill vote. The only way it won't pass is if a meteor hits the House just before the vote.
This is what fascism is like.
The corporations have the upper hand: they own Congress, and they therefore own what used to be our country.
If you work for one of these corporations...you're part of the problem.
Once again- our Democratic 'representatives' prove they are unwilling to stand up for us.
Vote Nader! Vote Green! Vote Socialist!
Vote anything but Rep/Dem. How many times are we going to let them fool us with the good cop/bad cop routine?
I lost all respect for the Dem's that cave and cower to the big Reslug companies and vote immunity for known Reslug criminals. If this passes I can't in all good conscience vote Democratic this fall. They don't represent me then.
No taxation without representation!
It is time to THROW THE BUMS OUT!
Vote our ALL incumbents, good or bad - we MUST take back our government NOW!
Why is Hoyer selling out the Constitution and the right to get justice in a court of law? Must be something big, right?
The only possiblity I can think of is that they tapped his phone (he's a target right?) and they got he on tape talking to his 14-year-old boy lover.
Nevertheless, Hoyer you are a traitor.
big lawsuits big stock selloffs....i wonder if it's that simple it would cripple the telecom industry or would it cripple the bush administration...
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/32113-corporate-amnesty-vs-your-privacy-bi...
Emailing Hoyer is not restricted to his district residents. This form is for all of us.
Use It!!
Damnit...
Please include the reference number of the bill you're talking about so we can pass it on. Now I gotta go hunting and pecking for it for the next three hours.
The Bill's Number is HR 3773, and is apparently an amendment to the Protect America Act
Protection of Persons Assisting the Government HR 3773: [THOMAS][GovTrack][WashingtonWatch][OpenCongress][Congress.org]
It's great to see everyone on top of this. I just donated some $$. Great work!
Legalize @ 22:
Very true. They largely have the same agenda. The Democratic leadership sometimes takes a little longer to maneuver themselves into a place from which they can push that agenda and blame it on someone else.
hell if you weeded out all the crooks in the house and senate thier would only be kucinich left in washington!
E in MD @ 41:
I think HR 3773 was the old version.
Hoyer's new bill doesn't have a number on the PDF on his site, but is called the ‘‘Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008’’ or the ‘‘FISA Amendments Act of 2008’’.
Steny is a smug guy.
I say give them what they want, it won't matter. It will take the US a long time to sort all of this crap out. It took a long time to create. Centuries of corruption and deception need to be undone and ONE term of fresh Dems will not be the remedy.It's a good start but by no means the cure.
The murmurs are growing louder by the day.
I just left a message for Nancy Pelosi (202) 225-0100 and Rahm Emanuel (202) 225-4061, telling them I was all gung-ho and ready to work for the democratic party to get Obama elected....until they pulled this crappy "compromise." No more, no more, no more...I will sit this one out. They've reaffirmed my cynicism just when I thought this country turned the corner and gave us a separate, distinct political party. Democratic Party, I hardly know you anymore.
I live in MD and I can't understand why Hoyer did this? I called his office and let them that he will not be getting my vote or my money.
Ryan in IL @ 40:
Done! I sent my own version of a "Sternly Worded Letter".
it's a done deal closed door negotiations.........but why do you need immunity if you did nothing unlawful.......that's what my little doesn't understand.....you gave them permission due to war........something smells in denmark....these potential lawsuits must have the ability to be crippling...
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1828777720080618?loc=in...
So how long before another "compromise" and they are given proactive immunity?
Putting Steny Hoyer out of a job has got to become a #1 priority, along with putting Pelosi out of work, too. I'm ready to send money to whoever will run against him.
"Pull my finger."
let them know (sorry)
BennyP @ 35:
Seriously, I've only voted in two elections in 04 and 06. I've already had enough with the democratic party. You call them enablers, well outside of a handful of democrats, people use their vote to enable more corporate corrupt dems.
Two sides of a coin with only the appearance of choice.
casper46 @ 49:
Awesome! Pelosi's Speaker page is also for anyone to use.
LOOK HERE...THERE IS AN EASY SOLUTION TO THIS MESS
whether or not this goes through...there is one thing we all can do without leaving the house. I myself dropped verizon both as a land line and my cell when this first came to light...and when they have called me in an effort to get me back, I told them I would NEVER be a customer again to someone who gave away my personal information without a warrant...Imagine if 75% of AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint customers dropped them as their service...then they and their stock holders would have a big problem. See the money any of these telecoms gives to Hoyer and any other politician...comes from our own pockets...if and only if we are their customers..so if we all quit being customers of any corporation that has a grip on these politicians..then we could have an effect on their ability to lobby for whatever they want, they would run out of money and the stock holders would be asking, what the heck happened...and they just might begin to pay attention to our needs, not theirs
So let's all get together and do WHAT WE CAN DO AS NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO HELP US....!!!! Because if we are their customers, then aren't we co-conspirators to this mess in the first place...perhapos we can start by coping this message and pasting it in to an eamail and start sending it out to everyone we know..this could be a movement...
casper46 @ 49:
Ditto
I ended it with-
"Don't sell us out or we'll vote you out."
The USA is now, as we speak, getting fucked royally by the Party sworn to protect the American People. My anger is more towards these cowards and traitors than towards Bush and Company. Since the Democrat Leadership has decided to capitulate to almost every devious request by Cheney and his Fascist cohorts there is almost nothing left of the protection the Constitution insures for the People. Make no mistake this is the last piece of dirty business before everything is put in place for the final rape of American Society as we know it. Today we see the reports of the real reason we invaded Iraq with the giving away and rewarding the no bid contracts to Big Oil. Almost all the right people in the Military have been replaced. The Administration will now spy on whatever they please, the American People, Financial Dealings and Political Enemies including you and me and our children. If you think for one second after all the Bush Administration has done to this country that they will not, you are very mistaken. War with Iran and then Syria has now become a forgone conclusion. And Israel will be the partner in crime. Everything Bush and his handlers have done, including the rape of our financial stability through war and the mortgage crisis has been to alienate the American People from the feeling of any form of security. Most people when afraid comply, especially when the fear of destitution hangs over their head, especially when they have a family to support. History now repeats itself. Adios
I'm unemployed, soon to be a student again and I kicked in $50 to terminate the 'public service' careers of these bastards. Also, wrote Steny and wrote my Sen. Ron Wyden to lead or join a filibuster. These traitors must be stopped.
Now you know how Bush got elected twice-Joe Lieberman as VP to Gore
Rahm Emanuel, Steny Hoyer. I just contributed to BlueDog.
Emanuel will be looking to get favors and worse on Obama
who has been burned by Lieberman already.
i don't like these telecom cos. getting immunity......but if bush doesn't get his way he is going to start their america isn't safe campaign mcCimmunity will jump all over that to continue his national security b.s........this administration has been three steps ahead of us ever since 9-11.. because they continued to make everything a political issue they never stopped even when they got in office......scott mcCellen pointed this out
Here are my three faxes:
FAX
To: Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House
202 225 8259
From: *****
Subject: Telecom Immunity
Date: June 19.2008
=====
America is outraged that the Senate has basically voted to allow GW Bush to get off scott-free from his illegal spying on Americans.
PLEASE pull this bill from the House schedule. Let the current FISA provisions expire, and deal with this matter after the new Democratic president and Congress have been inaugurated in January 2009. Let the Bush administration and the telcoms face the consequences of their unconstitutional actions, not Americans.
Please don't let us down.
Thank you.
FAX
To: Steny Hoyer
202 225 4300
From: *****
Subject: Telecom Immunity
Date: June 19.2008
=====
America is outraged that the Senate has basically voted to allow GW Bush to get off scott-free from his illegal spying on Americans.
PLEASE let the current FISA provisions expire, and deal with this matter after the new Democratic president and Congress have been inaugurated in January 2009. Let the Bush administration and the telcoms face the consequences of their actions. This is HORRIBLE for America, and I am ashamed that any Democrat supports it.
Please don't let us down.
Thank you.
FAX
To: Senator Barack Obama
202 228 4260
From: *****
Subject: Telecom Immunity
Date: June 19.2008
=====
America is outraged that the Senate has basically voted to allow GW Bush to get off scott-free from his illegal spying on Americans.
PLEASE make another strong statement about your opposition to this bill. Tell Congress to let the current FISA provisions expire, and deal with this matter after the next president and Congress have been inaugurated in January 2009. Let the Bush administration and the telcoms face the consequences of their actions, not Americans.
Please don't let us down.
Thank you.
=====
The FAX numbers are correct, and I didn't go into any more detail since I believe the recipients will be counting contacts made to them, not looking for specifics from voters.
Note how polite I was to Steny Hoyer. I really just wanted to say, "God damn you!"
Limp-Dick Blimpaugh @ 28:
Absolutely. With friends like these who needs Joe Leiberman?
Good links, above. Sent emails to Hoyer, Pelosi, and my guy-he's a DINO, but actually voted against this monstrosity last time.
It's a good idea to let them know we're watching. They may even be impressed with the volume.
MY E-MAIL TO REP HOYER:
RE: FISA "Compromise"
I hope you're banking on huge campaign contributions from the telecomm community because I plan to donate to whomever runs against you in the Democratic primaries.
This "compromise" gives the Republican Party and White House and the law-breaking telecomms everything they wanted. You simply passed the buck to the courts, who now have to decide whether the companies received "valid requests" from the government to illegally wiretap???? So now the question isn't the ILLEGALITY of the wiretaps, but the VALIDITY of the government's requests??? Come on --are you thinking we're stupid???
Why do we have secret FISA courts? And don't the telecomm companies hire lawyers to review wiretap warrants? These high priced lawyers could have and should have brought these issues to the judiciary to determine the legality of the government's requests, but instead they just folded and gave the govt the tools to violate the 4th Amendment with impunity.
If someone in this Administration, like Michael Chertoff, decides that he wants to take money from my bank account but he doesn't want to bother using a subpoena or writ of garnishment and the bank complies, wiping me out finanically, should the bank be given immunity? The bank hires lawyers. They know the rules. You're giving these companies immunity while the administration thumbs its nose at the law and smirks at the Constitution??
Why do we vote for those of you in Congress? Aren't you supposed to be looking out for us? Again, good luck with your telecomm contributions, Mr. Hoyer.
nittany @ 55:
Voting for Nader is worse than staying home-so stay home already. Move-on is the only alternative to Bush Dogs.
maybe it's bec I'm totally stressed and exhausted from the 30+ calls I've made on this today
- but am starting to wonder if Steny was recruited by Leadership to appear to be going it alone - so as to protect their traitorous asses
'here Steny, take on all the slings and arrows and there's a nice bonus for ya, the um, Leadership is under enough pressure and we could sure use your help
also interesting to entertain the notion that it's wildly coincidental this comes up once the primaries have concluded
Barack Obama as the head of our Party could stop this faster than Nancy or Harry
Capitulation We Can Believe In . . .
jimbo92107 @ 4:
I've been saying the same thing since the mid 1990s!!
longnow @ 67:
nope, wrong.
Ryan in IL @ 56:
Gave her a piece of my mind too. lol
Steny Hoyer's just about to do an imitation of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0gzQS4w1sc
The three biggest culprits, who knowingly broke the law for BushCo:
AT&T Inc
Verizon Communications Inc
Sprint Nextel Corp
If you have cell phone or any other service from them, CANCEL it. Go with T-Mobile, which did not go along with Bush's demands. I'm sure there are other services available, too.
I have been boycotting and badmouthing these corporations since I found out about them. Refuse to do business with them (that is, if they don't have a monopoly on your service area).
Lollimom @ 34:
Baby, folks gots to eat! So, lets not get outrageous.....LOL
casper46 @ 71:
I just wanna piece.
Just spoke to Jim Moran's Legislative Assistant...he had just recived a copy of the bill and was still reading over it. Although not a final position, the LA and he felt his boss was on the same page too, is opposed to the current language regarding telecom immunity. So I'm fairly certain we'll have a no vote there...though this is kinda what I expected from Moran.
I also called Obama's office...though I couldn't speak with an LA I left a message expressing Obama's considerable position in the party as the nominee and that I hoped he would use that to pressure the House members to vote no on the bill.
I may try to give Hoyer's office a call but I cannot make these calls from my office (i have to step outside and use my cellphone) so that may have to wait for tomorrow.
motorfingaz @ 74:
Bullshit. People who work for these corporations profit from their illegalities.
You're confusing "outrageous" with "enablers".
Where did these spineless assholes ever get the idea that Democrats would blindly support whatever they do just because they call themselves Democrats too? Do they think we're as cultish as Republicans?
sulphurdunn @ 78:
Indeed!
I've been saying this for years. The Democrats and Republicans recieve campaign contributions from the same corporations. The Democrats are the new coke of change. They are going to go into the White House next year and do everything possible to protect the profits of Corporate America.
longnow @ 67:
Spoken like a true Democrat.
Lollimom @ 73:
AT&T can suck my rusty coaxial cable. I've had it with them criminal fkers.
Going back to Soup cans and string.
I like pie @ 80:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4YvmN1hvNA
NoSoyAdded @ 82:
No need for tin cans, SKYPE is a great way to bring down the telephone monopolies.
It's would seem our two party system doesn't work very well. What can a person do? Nothing apparently. I'm becoming more disenfranchised everyday. Why vote democrat? Change we can believe in seems like such a lie.
Yeah Hoyer puked it up. But anyone, I mean anyone in the democratic party could have taken the lead on this. I am disgusted with the entire party. They played the progressive wing of the party and sold us out. Well you'll get the same song and dance when it comes to contribution time. Go talk to your pals at the telecoms.
Here's the piece of my mind that I just sent Hoyer:
"Mr. Hoyer:
Your betrayal of the Constitution and the American People re your complicity with the Bush regime on FISA is unconscionable. How much have you accepted in bribes from the telecoms to push through your so-called "compromise"? What did you gain by selling your country, by selling the Constitution that you have sworn an oath to defend and protect and by selling the American People down the river? Is the Bush regime blackmailing you? What could possess an alleged Democrat to do what you have done? Do you have that much contempt for the Constitution? Obviously so. Don't even try and peddle the BS that you are working to secure the nation; you don't make the nation secure by helping to turn it into a police state run by the corporations for whose benefit you are prostituting your office. Have you been smoking PCP?
I don't know who's going to be running against you, but I'm going to be sending them a lot of money. Why don't you do the country a huge favor: resign your office; go take a nice cushy job at one of the corporations that owns and operates you. Give the People a chance to elect another to the seat you currently occupy, one who isn't a clueless, corrupt prostitute like yourself. A person who, unlike you, has integrity. Somebody who, unlike you, isn't a slimey weasel, eager to do anything to ingratiate him or herself to the first totalitarian despot that comes down the road.
You can attempt to spin your actions any way you wish, but don't be surprised when only a few buy into your self-serving rationalizations. What you are proposing is unConstitutional. What you have done is betray a trust. I'm hoping that you will be in for a rude surprise on election day, when your constituents decide that it's time to call you to account for your betrayals. In the meantime, I will vigorously support any citizen move to strip you of your position as majority leader. You are wholly unworthy of the position and the honor.
BTW, Steny, I'm a veteran. I served to defend and protect the Constitution of these United States. I consider that what you and your allies have done to be an attempt to nullify not only my military service, but also the collective service, risks and sacrifices of all others who have served - going all the way back to the founding of this Nation.
Thanks loads, Hotshot."
I fought against Hoyer's compromise by voring for Steven Werner, the Green Party candidate to replace him in 2006, and will vote Green against him again this fall.
CNN.com had the story on their front page for about 20 minutes, then buried it again (at the back of their politics section).
AT&T, or Hoyer himself, must have made a call...
Take over the machinery of one of the two parties, while throwing the traitors overboard. That's exactly what the liberal blogosphere is doing. But it takes time. Time we don't have, I know. But short of storming the Rotunda, it's what works.
This will save me a trip to the polls in November. I've had it.
Steny is my Congressman, with offices in my town in MD. I have politely reminded him what happened to Albert Wynn the district over...
The needs of obscenely rich suits in giant corporations are more important than what I and countless other citizens who value privacy are calling for: a basic respect for the rule of law.
Got the message, Steny. I got the fucking message.
RppPolyp @ 92:
I agree 100%
RppPolyp @ 92:
You think he cares? Hoyer is much more powerful than Wynn, and he's counting on the issue being recondite enough to not interest the average voter. No doubt he figures there's no reasonable challenger from the Democratic camp, and he'll make the argument that if he doesn't stand this year, the seat will be much more likely to go to a Republican.
Personally, I'd rather see a Bush Republican than a Bush Democrat in a race, since that makes the primary process much smoother for progressives--less a matter of running uphill against a Bush Democratic incumbent who has the field tilted in their direction. But that's just my perspective. Because, ultimately, I want progressives in office. And I want Bush watercarriers out on the street, getting lobbyist jobs.
This the last straw for me,if the Democrats in Congress let this pass I am done as a Democrat and I say this after 40 years as a voting donating Dem.
This is just another Bush "compromise" -
"Sure I'll compromise, just so long as you do exactly what I say"
As many others have observed, what possible reason could there be to compromise here?
Do we compromise on other criminal activity in our society?
A few more months of this sort of cowardice and hypocrisy from Congress and we'll soon be reading headlines like this:
"A compromise was reached with Mr. Mass Murderer X, the terms being that he would limit the number of his victims to 15 per year"
How many patriotic Americans must be weeping over what has happened to their nation.
But for Pete's sake, I hope we soon stop weeping and fix it instead.
Beware when you call the offices of senators and congressmen: The first thing they ask is whether you live in their state or district. Or they ask for your phone number or zip code or address.
Hoyer is a whore.
Pelosi is a whore.
See the Cat?
See the cradle?
pat @ 96:
I've reached the same point. No more.
Balakirev @ 95:
Doesn't matter how much power he has, The voters have the last word. As a resident in MD I am going to do everything I can to help get him out of office. Albert Wynn was an eight term imcumbant and look what happen to him. anything is possible!
RppPolyp @ 92:
You will probably be the first phone lines tapped to determine if you are a homegrown terrorist. We are all in danger if this passes. We're in danger anyway, this legislation doesn't help.
The Congress will again "legalize" a crime with a law as they did with the Military Commissions Act. Only to be struck down again by the Supreme Court and ignored by this and future administrations including Obama's.
The President assured us that
"anytime you hear the United States Govt. talk about wiretap, a wiretap requires a court order. nothing has changed by the way, when we're talkling about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, Constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to protecting the homeland because we value the Constitution."
Expose the sham that the White House tried to sell as Congressional oversight on FISA, torture, and rendition. Only eight members were briefed on the programs and told not to tell anyone-even Intel committee members! Yet the White House says "Congress has been briefed at least a dozen times" on these programs.
Tell Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller, Roberts to acknowledge this sham as a way to blackmail them to avoid oversight or impeaching for criminal programs Congress never approved of. Given their conflict of interest they will recuse themselves and allow Congress to exercise real checks and balances.
H.Res. 1258
Twenty-four ILLEGAL SPYING
The President has intentionally authorized and encouraged illegal electronic surveillance on American citizens.
Twenty-five ILLEGAL DATABASE OF PRIVATE INFO
The President has illegally arranged with telecommunications companies to create a large
database containing information regarding American citizens’ private telephone calls and emails.
V for Vonnegut @ 99:
And this relates to Pelosi in what way?
Google "Pelosi + FISA"Screw that. I did it for you. Here are the results. When the Moonie Times writes stories criticizing Pelosi for her stance to kill telecom immunity, that's a good thing.Take action!
http://www.stopthespying.org/
WHY did we vote in 2006? What a bunch of horseshit this has become.
Nicole, remember who Hoyer is. He ISNT Murtha. Remember Murtha? The guy that was going to tear Bush a new asshole but was replaced by Hoyer?
Remember everyone asking - who is Hoyer?
Hoyer is now doing what he was chosen to do - protect Bush. In my opinion just as Pelossi and Reid are doing.
Would Murtha have done this?
What do you think?
abarts @ 106:
You're kidding, right?
435 different House Congressional districts, and you expect all of them to be the same? Jesus, my district has been represented by a Republican since the late '70's, and a Democrat has represented us for about 3 years since 1948. You don't like Hoyer or any other Blue Dog- or any Republican- move to into their district and run yourself!
If you move to mine, abarts, I'll vote for you. Doubt you'd win Jerry Ford's old seat, though, unless you have a Dutch surname and an (R) following it...but I'll vote for you.
What I'm hearing is that the compromise is "Under the guise of a compromise, the legislation is designed to ensure that the only issue the courts will review is whether or not the President told the telecoms that their conduct was legal, but not whether the conduct actually was legal. "
And impeachment of the President is off the table, so no consequences there, either. Remember, the Bill of Rights were enacted to protect the citizenry from excess from the government, so it is a natural tendency for government, Democratic or Republican to want to erode these rights.
Likely, if the compromise passes, there will be a court challenge on the constitutionality of the compromise.
This says "thing" that if the President says its okay, then it's okay. Isn't that enough for Americans. Given, he is the President and he knows what is good for all of us. Interesting to think anyone would think to disagree with the "Head of the State". We are Americans and we are suppose to accept our governments rule. This from a true patriot of the United States of America.
Back to reality and the real American.
I don't think I know any republicans because no one that thinks should agree with corporate control of ones country. It is beyond me to understand how anyone who supports Bush and his policies to call Barack Obama a communist because republicans and their supporters seems to be the ones submitting to government control. Are we not in the country that can do and say whatever we want and not about our government face any retribution. I remember the Black Panthers did just that and asked "What are you going to do about it?".
I think in America to be patriot, one has to have some suspicion of the government. We have not been bread to be lap dogs but pit bulls. Sometimes we get a little out hand and we have to be put down, but we can do that because we are Americans.
NoBuddy @ 109:
There will be, I strongly suspect, but the court might not deem to hear it, as was the case with the military commissions act, if I recall correctly.
Government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations… and their buddies.
We the people are screwed.
moondancer @ 86:
Progressives are to the Democrats what Evangelicals are to the Republicans. They use you...
Fuck, looks like I'll have to give another $100 to the ACLU.
jimbo92107 @ 4:
Anybody got a list of these Democreep corporate sell outs' ? We need to put up a hit list on these guys so we can send them packing.
Hoyer is turning his back on us on a personal freedom issue. He needs to go ASAP!!!!!!!!
Alice xHussein Chomsky Nader @ 111:
We need to put electronic surveillance on all public officials so we know exactly what they are doing and who they are meeting with at all times.
This back door dealing always ends up with us getting screwed. They are selling us out to the military industrial complex. The telecoms and the media really cant stand the American people. They like our money just fine though!
Throw your cell phones away and quit watching television!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We were called cynics, but some of us TOLD YOU this would happen.
Now, call us cynics again, but we're telling you... Obama (assuming he's elected) will DO NOTHING TO CHANGE THIS!!!!!
The Democrats are just Republican-lite.
America is the nation of two right-wing parties. The Extreme right, and the far right.
A tragic day for America.
Andy K Jong Il @ 104:
I listened to her speak on NPR today. She said that the earlier senate version couldn't be allowed to become law. However, this version, this "compromise" from the house, is what she will stand behind. So yeah, they all sell us out once again. I'm soooo happy dems took Congress back in 06, it really changed a lot..........
To think I answered two wrong on my last biology test one dealt with name 2 invertebrates I answered worms and the democratic leadership ( never guess which one was deemed wrong) and another question name a animal instinct for survival since I was grasping at straws I said the herd instinct and the examaple I gave was the sheep in the democratic leadership.
I guess facts do have a liberal bias.
Even timid woodland creatures have more backbone than the leadership it's time for a vote of no confidence and backing someone in the next election that knows how to follow the constitition and the general principals of their party the leadership has been part of the beltway scene for to long to be champions of the people back home
Let's chip in and get Steny a t-shirt that reads:
The Terrorists Won
and I Helped!!
nittany @ 118:
Which NPR program? Because I just searched it and came up with.....zip...nada...zilch...zero.
My email to Pelosi, sent similar strongly worded message to turncoat steny.
Dear Congressman Pelosi, I am sickened today by Steny Hoyer's compromise and hold your leadership as equally responsible and as a violation of your oath to uphold the constitution by crafting this so-called compromise legislation on Telecom Immunity.
I was about 19 years old when I watched with pride the hearings into the Watergate investigation. When Richard Nixon resigned I was greatly uplifted and proud that America would stand up for the rule of law.
Had you been in congress then I am sure you would have been willing to forget the whole thing. You are now about to nullify the fourth amendment and support Richard Nixon's doctrine that says if the president does it, it's not against the law.
My great joy at seeing the Democrats take back the house in 2006 has turned to great disappointment in non democrat's like you who are only too willing to give the Bush Cheney administration whatever they want. I will now work very hard to see that you and others who are willing to capitulate are turned out of office. You are doing great harm to the democratic party a party I have been a member of for 35 years. I will sit out the presidential and congressional votes this year if this legislation passes.
It is obvious that you are as compromised and corrupt as the republican leadership that you turned out.
Andy K Jong Il @ 121:
Their news that they run inbetween programs. Honestly, not making this up, but believe what you will.
You have a small donation from me. Use it for beer if this loses.
So, if there's a written Presidential authorization to break the law, your actions are immunized? Poodunk! This is the fastest road to tyranny. You can't argue the line that if this bill fails we'll have a Code Red security emergency, that is "campaign style rhetoric" technique Bush is still using, as these means will never justify the ends.
nittany @ 123:
Okay, I found it at the NPR Site, and all she said is that it's an improvement over the Senate bill. Listen to it for yourself.
nittany, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but please link these things.
:^D
Andy K Jong Il @ 126:
Meant to say I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you heard her speaking about the bill. I'm a skeptic. I like facts, ya know? ;^D
My letter to Steny Hoyer...
Mr. Hoyer:
I am not a constituent of yours, but as a life-long Democrat and patriotic American, I am appalled by your role in enabling the so-called FISA "compromise," as craven a capitulation I've seen on matters of civil liberties in many years. Presidential authorization to the phone companies to circumvent FISA should in no way retroactively immunize them from prosecution (as this bill almost certainly will), or from the legal remedies available to those whose civil liberties have been infringed. Provision 802(c) requiring in camera and ex parte review upon a filing by the Attorney General*, and its subsequent limitations on public disclosure, are in the worst tradition of clandestine governance.
You are aiding and abetting the most corrupt and secretive administration in my lifetime, and short-circuiting the legal process. When called upon for moral courage, you have chosen the interests of your benefactors at Comcast over the law. Rest assured, I will be doing my small part in the future to make sure that people remember your role in this subversion of justice.
*Let us not forget that Michael Mukasey has already publicly defended Bush's program of wiretapping without a court order, and has conjured up (without supporting evidence) an imagined call that he claims, if intercepted, would have prevented 9/11. You can fully expect him to make liberal use of the provisions you've so generously provided him to rob people of their day in court.
Andy K Jong Il @ 125:
I listened to it and that wasn't the same piece. I applaud your honest effort in trying to find this and I know that she spoke against the senate bill. I'll try to find what I heard, but it wasn't a part of an actual program. It was just their news snipet and they talked about Iowa floods with Bush talking, Bear Sterns guys getting in trouble, and Nancy Pelosi saying that the House version is the right compromise. They (NPR) stated that those who care about civil liberties will be pissed (see justice). They then had this like 10 second interview with someone who works for the ACLU.
RonDumsfeld @ 120:
That is perfect!
nittany @ 129:
I just listened to the 7pm "Hourly News Update", and there was no audio of anyone. The 8pm update should be up soon- I'll see if I here it on that one.
Right now I'm not finding anything anywhere else saying that she supports even limited immunity. I figure that if she said she supports it, it's out there somewhere in the intertubes. You get reactions pretty quickly these days in the blog-o-sphere.
My fax to Surrender Steny
Dear Congressman Hoyer, I contributed today to the Act Blue page to let your constituents know that you are violating your oath of office, your pledge to uphold the constitution by crafting this so-called compromise legislation on Telecom Immunity. I was about 19 years old when I watched with pride the hearings into the Watergate investigation.
When Richard Nixon resigned I was greatly uplifted and proud that America would stand up for the rule of law. Had you been in congress then I am sure you would have been willing to forget the whole thing.
You are now about to nullify the fourth amendment and support Richard Nixon's doctrine that says if the president does it, it's not against the law. My great joy at seeing the Democrats take back the house in 2006 has turned to great disappointment in non democrat's like you who are only too willing to give the Bush Cheney administration whatever they want. I will now work very hard to see that you and others who are willing to capitulate are turned out of office.
It is obvious that you are as compromised and corrupt as the republican leadership that you turned out.
I know they say when you email members of congress you should be polite yet firm in your message. Well, screw that. I'm pissed and I let this dumba$$ know that he along with the other spineless dems are cowards and traitors to the people. I also told him I am not voting in November. Nor is my husband or my mother. I am an Independent but typically vote democrat. I may not vote again until we get another party. These dems are spineless. Either that or they are closet repukes and support this adminstrtions fascist policies. I'm 51, a Marine Corps vet and have 2 kids serving. One just returned from his second tour in 2 years in Iraq. This is not my country. This is not the America that I grew up in or that I wore the uniform for, proudly I might add. I cannot believe that these cowards once again have given in to these toads. How do you relieve your frustration without hurting someone? Someone tell me please before I burst a blood vessel. I need to start drinking.
Andy K Jong Il @ 131:
Okay, this from Mother Jones:
it looks very much as if Pelosi–who has substantial power to control what does and does not appear on the floor of the House–will allow this to come to a vote.
Included is a link to CQ, which includes this:
A potential revolt by a group of Democrats pressed party leaders into compromising on a rewrite of electronic surveillance rules, a top Democrat said Wednesday.
Asked why Democrats don’t put aside the surveillance legislation until a new president is elected in November, Hoyer said he would prefer to do so but can’t because so many House Democrats are prepared to vote for the Senate bill that he and other top House Democrats oppose.
“Clearly enough Democrats have indicated in the House they would vote for the Senate bill if it came to the floor. The alternatives are either the Senate bill or a bill significantly better” reached through negotiations with the Senate and the White House, he said.
Looks like the Blue Dogs are playing hardball. Wouldn't surprise me if enough of them are threatening to jump to the GOP if they don't get the vote on this.
So if this FISA legislation is a done deal, what next? Drop the lawsuits until the next Congress overrides this shitty bill, and re-file later? Because now is the time to weigh that option.
Sorry, supposed to be a between the first and second paragraphs of the quoted CQ text.
Okay, then, wordpress recognizes "" as unclosed HTML code...Who'd of known?
"snip" , surrounded by the left and right arrows.
Christ, I'm hogging bandwidth........
So, what I want to know is, did Obama vote to fuck us hard? That's what I want to know. How Obama voted.
Andykjong@134, you said:
"Looks like the Blue Dogs are playing hardball. Wouldn’t surprise me if enough of them are threatening to jump to the GOP if they don’t get the vote on this."
Are you kidding? That would be the best thing to happen to the democratic party in 30 years! Yes! They should jump to the GOP and get the hell out of the way.
casper46 @ 13:
Not a lawyer either, but in answer to your question, it's not very likely
You have to prove standing, i.e. that you've been harmed by this law, which isn't very likely because how do you know if you've been spied on if all the info goes to a secret court
District Court Judge Anna Diggs Taylor issued an injunction against the program which was overturned by the Sixth Circuit and then SCOTUS refused to take the case which made the Circuit Court's decision final
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/supreme_court_refuses_...
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/07/sixth-circuit-opinion-in-tspfisa-case...
America's becoming more fascist by the day
Call your Congresspeople and tell them NO!!!
Nancy Pelosi:
You cannot compromise our Constitutional Rights that is treason. Shame on you for your "Compromise" which does that. Many legal opinions disagree with you.
Further shame on you for such a huge issue, sneaking it in the backroom and springing it 24 hours before the vote is blatant manipulation. Please step down. You lied when you promised open government.
big brother @ 141:
Nope, TAKE her down along with that little prick Steny. How did Obama vote? Does anyone know?
This Guy would make Lierman look good. Vote Steny out! Even if he is good friend of Mr. Bill Press.
Pelosi is a Disgrace.
GGreenwald posted an email Obama sent re. FISA. Obama is vs. immunity as President, but not doing much as Senator.
The whole issue is a sham. Warrantless spying was done 7 months before 9/11. It intercepted many explicit warnings that were not translated until after the attacks. The Telcos stopped wiretapping suspected terrorists when the FBI was late paying the bills.
Bush lied when he said "a wiretap requires a court order"
Bush lied when he says national security depends on profit-driven telcos.
Sign up with Qwest, T-Mobile
Boycott AT&T, Verizon, Sprint...their lawyers told them it was a crime and they did it anyway.They're throwing $$ at Sen. Rockefeller, Hoyer, Carney and others for immunity from civil and criminal penalties.
This is not a compromise, this is a cover-your-ass. If they had downed the FISA bill, Congress would have left themselves open to prosecution, as would the Bush administration. This is not compromise, this is collusion.
There needn't be a compromise, Steny. Remember, you're in the majority. You don't have to compromise. You set the agenda. Remember? The MINORITY party suggests a compromise. Or... are you suggesting that you're either a Republican? or are you suggesting that Democrats should always be thinking as if they are the minority?
Regardless, you're a bought off jellyfish, Steny. Grow some balls.
This is the letter I sent to Pelosi/Hoyer/and Dems.
No Retroactive Immunity, No Erosion of Liberties, No Warrantless Wiretaps
Speaker Pelosi, Representative Hoyer, and Congressional Democrats,
I am writing to you to remind you of your responsibility to protect the constitution of the United States. Americans sent a clear message in 2006 by empowering democrats with a majority in congress, because they wanted a change from the policies and the continual erosion of civil liberties by one George W. Bush and his administration.
Sadly, little if anything has been done on this front, and this congress has more often acted as enablers of a man who has outright contempt for the rule of law and detests transparency in leadership.
I will not forget that you and your party did not deem it worthy to pursue the 35 articles of impeachment that were brought to the floor against a president who has spied illegally on our citizens, detains hundreds abroad (and at home) without charge indefinitely, and most recently has been proven (as if there was ever any doubt) to have institutionalized torture.
You and your democratic "leadership" have however, found time once again to bring to the floor a bill that strips away even more of the people's civil liberties (the people by whose consent you govern) and grants immunity to those who aided and abetted illegal and warrant-less spying on the American people.
George W. Bush and his administration have earned no benefit of the doubt or presumption of restraint. This is a man who has bent the entire vehicle of government towards becoming another political arm of the Republican Party and sold America and it's soldiers to corporate interests.
I have not forgotten the past votes when members of your Democratic Party have voted to authorize war in Iraq, to pass draconian surveillance bills, to pass the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act. I have read the roll-calls, I am keeping tally. I have watched your cowardice as you triangulated the best political position and did not do everything within your power to bring our troops home. Your complicity sullies their sacrifice. How many thousands of dead soldiers have we accumulated since the Democrats won that majority?
If you and the House and Senate Democrats capitulate on this bill, I will make it my life's mission to replace you and those complicit, with congressional representatives who respect the rule of law and remember that their loyalty is not to the President, nor to their party, nor to the shifting political winds. It is to the constitution and the laws and the inalienable rights for which it stands.
I will post the roll-call on as many political blogs, websites, forums, and article comments as I can until we drive you and your fellow capitulators out of office. I will raise money for your opposition.
To vote for this bill and further erode the constitution and undermine civil liberties is not just a tragedy, it is tantamount to treason. It is becoming harder and harder to tell the democratic members apart from the republicans.
Perhaps it is time for you to revisit your history books and remember the phrase from America's revolution:
Don't Tread On Me.
Ask yourself why would he do this, then look at a map. You guys are no better at connecting the dots than GWB and company.
HAHAHA!
Yes thats a real opposition party. This is what I tell people, they ARE BOTH in on the corruption. Do you honestly believe you will get your rights back? Do you think things will get better with the dems? Are you kidding? Its time to get rid of BOTH parties and go third party...but are the elections rigged? YEP!
You guys could have Had Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich or Mike Gravel...instead you will have this forever, as long as you vote for CFR candidates...look it up.
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