well he's got Madeliane "500 thousadn Iraqi children dead was worth it" Allbright on his foreign policy team, one more mass murdering liar won't do any harm.

Keeping Gates on as Secretary of Defence would be a confirmation of "Bush's third term" on the central issue Obama ran on in the primaries, Iraq.

Ok, which number major Flip-Flop is this in so many weeks for Obama? 5? 10?

Gates seems to have a handle on the situation and he seems to be just following orders from the top and doing his best to keep Bush from going to crazy on Iran and the rest of the world. I think this move would be a telling one by Obama that he values experience over party affiliation which is something I think the American people can appreciate. Unless Gates drums up anything before the elections I don't see this as a bad rumor.

linda @ 2:

actually, gates appears to be blocking an attack on iran.

I read that too.

Keeping Gates through a transition doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Remember Gates came in after Rumsfeld finally left and if there has been any progress in Iraq, it's been under Gates rule. To toss Gates out immediately would probably be tough on whomever would replace him. It will take time to see what is in the works and what if any plan there might be.

Up until now Gates has had to do whatever bush (read cheney) has ordered him to do. I think things would be a hell of a lot better with a President Obama at the wheel.

CD @ 5:

Gates seems to have a handle on the situation and he seems to be just following orders from the top and doing his best to keep Bush from going to crazy on Iran and the rest of the world. I think this move would be a telling one by Obama that he values experience over party affiliation which is something I think the American people can appreciate. Unless Gates drums up anything before the elections I don't see this as a bad rumor.

I agree with the points you made. Keeping Gates on isn't necessarily a such bad move. Besides, he has been in that position long enough that he has experience concerning what is currently going on and about the status of the military in general. He could be a good asset for Obama at least for the short term.

How about at some time, handing that job to Jim Webb?

Today bush signed the new GI bill and he thanked the senators who had made it possible. He named them all and lastly he named McCain.

Exactly. What's so great about him? and it's a concession to the meme that Republicans are better on defense. Being better than Rumsfeld and not wanting war with Iran is not a good enough reason to keep him.

andy @ 1:

well he's got Madeliane "500 thousadn Iraqi children dead was worth it" Allbright on his foreign policy team, one more mass murdering liar won't do any harm.

Actually what she said in an interview:

Leslie Stahl: "We have heard that a half million children have died (as a
result of sanctions against Iraq). I mean, that is more children than died
in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we
think the price is worth it."

Just as reprehensible. I also heaerd her say, "That is the price we have to pay."

Half a million children and she can justify it.

Once again the Democrats are trying to outdo the reptiles by revealing that they are actually also reptiles.

In a reptile to reptile battle, a reptile will always win.

Yep, Obama's starting to show hs true face now that he's feeling like he's got the presidency locked up.
My personal take on Obama:
He's not too unlike Hillary Clinton, John McCain, George Bush and all the rest of the crowd that needs to be ran out of DC on a rail. Just wait, he's gonna do other things before the election that will completely outrage liberals who supported him to begin with. Obama's just a bunch of theatrics, like any other Beltway member. It's sad, but a new group of people (liberals) have fallen for his shtick, like the conservatives fell for Bush hook line and sinker.

Change? or Changiness?

Just a little walk down memory lane regarding "Dr. Gates"....

Anyone remember the trial of Clark Clifford over the B.C.C.I. scandal?

When Gates testified I'll never forget what he said about B.C.C.I.:

"It was known among intelligence circles as The Bank of Crooks and Criminals International."

God help us.

Ruthless People @ 14:

Republicans turn the Department of Defense into the Department of Offense. Pre-emptive wars we pay for with blood and treasure so they and their corporate and big oil cronies can get rich resulting in making America less safe because we are stretched too thin to handle a real threat.

I agree, keep the Republicans far away from the Pentagon.

But Gates was not involved in the run up to the Iraq invasion. He can't start a war, all he can try to do is manage the hell bush and the administration made out of this one.

Way back when, before the US invaded Iraq, bush's dads old friends tried to talk bush out of invading Iraq. If my memory serves me correctly, Gates was one of those men.

It's not only the Repubs and Independs that he needs to convince. There are Democrats out there who are also concerned about his lack of experience. The only "change" I see him doing right now is turning into a republican. I hope that all the people who fell for his smooth talk are feeling very stupid right now. Or at least ashamed of yourselves.

Bud @ 27:

It's not only the Repubs and Independs that he needs to convince. There are Democrats out there who are also concerned about his lack of experience. The only "change" I see him doing right now is turning into a republican. I hope that all the people who fell for his smooth talk are feeling very stupid right now. Or at least ashamed of yourselves.

Just for you i will feel stupid and ashamed.

Can i go to the bathroom now?

OT, Obama is giving a speech on patriotism.

I'm sure this is just a stroking of the right, kind of like saying "Hillary would be on anybody's short list" as VP. Compared to Rummy, Gates is a rocket scientist.

B-b-but I thought Bush got everything wrong in the Iraq War because of his poor judgement and that the whole purpose of Obama's run for the presidency was to "change" all of that?

"What we've done over the last eight years does not work." - Barack Obama, this month.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/16/obama.bush.mccain/index.html

Sooooo.....now Bush's appointment of Gates as Secretary of Defence WAS the result of good judgement and his policies HAVE worked for some of the last eight years?

I tend to agree with the idea of keeping Gates on through the transition at least. He may say "...not only no, but hell no." Gates has had his ups and downs over the years between his CIA work, Iran-Contra, etc.

I think, though, that he's a smart guy who must want to serve the country. Why else would he take the job he has now? He'd have to know the shit he was going to have to wade through courtesy of the Big Dick Cheney. And I cannot believe he's as bug fuck crazy as Rumsfeld. Let him transition, thank him for his decades of service, and let him then retire peacefully. If Sen. Obama wants a republican, maybe Chuck Hagel could work out.

It's a little soon to worry about it. Let's get President Obama elected first.

I do remember Bill Clinton keeping on people from ghwb. I thought that was a mistake. Look at Greenspan.

pissed off patricia @ 25:

Ruthless People @ 14:

Republicans turn the Department of Defense into the Department of Offense. Pre-emptive wars we pay for with blood and treasure so they and their corporate and big oil cronies can get rich resulting in making America less safe because we are stretched too thin to handle a real threat.

I agree, keep the Republicans far away from the Pentagon.

But Gates was not involved in the run up to the Iraq invasion. He can't start a war, all he can try to do is manage the hell bush and the administration made out of this one.

Way back when, before the US invaded Iraq, bush's dads old friends tried to talk bush out of invading Iraq. If my memory serves me correctly, Gates was one of those men.

No matter what I think about Gates, I can't say that he isn't qualified. In fact, just about everyone that Obama has picked in his Foreign Policy Panel are equally as qualified in my opinion. Obama is one sharp man. He isn't picking Michael Brownes to fill posts thats for sure.

Obama's Foreign Policy Panel:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20127.htm

Supporting FISA, now this?

All part of Obama's "move to the center"?

Bad move.

this isn't a bad move. if you've watched gates on c-span at hearings and briefings, he actually makes sense, isn't a warhawk, and understands what's going on in afghanistan and pakistan and the need to shift resources there from iraq. the marginal (and i stres MARGINAL) improvements in iraq have all been under his watch. plus, defense secretary is a glamourized position, anyway. they just follow the pres's orders most of the time and serve as the fall guy when things get effed up...

EJG @ 12:

The Libertarian party is looking better and better.

With Bob "We Just Saved The Treasury From Being Raided" Barr as their nominee? Are you daft?

what is the point, no matter what happens this election cycle is a blow. we had to choose between Clinton a known insider

triangulator and Obama the stealth insider triangulator. Focus on next cycle and getting progressives elected.

If Gates will help Obama win the election and will sign on to a plan to remove almost all troops within two years, then I'm fine with him as Secretary of Defense.

Stopping fourthbranch's third war has to count for something, like a decent transitionary period.

theWalrus @ 42:

Supporting FISA, now this?

All part of Obama's "move to the center"?

Bad move.

don't forget NAFTA and his backtracking

keeping robert gates on would signify that obama would continue the imperial status quo. yes, gates has slowed down the march towards war with iran, but still has a military-empire world view.

i see this as another 'screw the liberals, they HAVE to vote for us, what other choice do they have, mwhahaha'

The Sec of Def is the last place to throw the olive branch to the Repugs. Gate has pretty much been Gonzo lite.

Here's a wonderful little clip showing all of us how wonderful Obama is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scNLxSleuec

Bob Barr, Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader look better and better every day.

Obama is really starting to disappoint. First FISA and now this. Given what's happened over the last 8 years, I would purge every damn one of Bush's cronies as a matter of principle and just start over.

And exactly what has Gates done to piss off the Left? I mean the guy inherited a terrible foreign policy and a terrible war. He is not the Commander-In-Chief so he can't set strategy on his own. And he's publicly stated that he thinks diplomacy is the only way to win the war because the military can only do so much.

So why is the Left attacking him? Is this another game of guilt by association? If you look at what the guy has done since becoming Secretary of Defense, he's been low key and tried to stop the bleeding as much as possible within his means. And he's not out there talking up a Iranian invasion either. But he is not the COMMANDER IN CHIEF and it would be counterproductive for him to flame the President while in that cabinet position.

Once again, this is where I stand in the Center and scratch my head at you guys and gals.

I don't support keeping any Bush appointee, but really, how was he supposed to fix Iraq and Afghanistan? Pretty shallow comment by Nicole without links showing how badly he himself has screwed it up.

here's the problem...

the Bush administration has politicized every federal agency that exists... including the military...

Clinton forfieted the Dept of Defense to the Republicans... which gave them 28 uninterrupted years of military control...

it is the reason the military appears to be Republican...

the military is in dire need of a housecleaning... good, honest general officers were dispatched in favor of politicized officers who would carry Bush's policies forward... including torture, tolerance of civilian contractors in a war zone, etc...

Democrats need to take responsibility...

we have never been so close to a military government...

the Democrats must reach into the military and depoliticize it...

removing officers who condoned torture,

who condoned spying on Americans,

who condoned military tribunals,

who condoned the incarceration of American civilians,

who condoned military operations in areas not approved by congress,

etc.

as someone who has served in the military, i can tell you that it is not legal to obey an unlawful order.

As long as they actually bring in COMPETENT people, I could care less what their party affiliation is. We don't need to continue putting partisan ass-kissers in government if we want anything to actually get done. Take Gov. bush appointees as a negative model for that process.

Bismarck, our thoughts are running along the same path. I hear ya.

Sorry, this is a bad move. Saying he is the best in the bush administration isn't a compliment.

And keeping Gates on only reinforces the myth that Democrats are weak on defense. Ther are any number of qualified Dems for the position.

Is Gates the guy who told Bush that if he attacked Iran he (Gates) and a number of other high ranking servicemen would resign in protest?

CarpeDiem @ 75:

· ESSAY ASSIGNMENT:
1. Please discuss Barack Obama’s bona fides to become Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. (please write a minimum of three paragraphs for full credit)
OR
2. Please discuss John McCain’s bona fides to become Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. (please write a minimum of three paragraphs for full credit)
Which would you pick? Hands down . . .I’d pick Question #2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok...go ahead then. Essay away.

Matt in Texas @ 77:

CarpeDiem @ 75:

· ESSAY ASSIGNMENT:
1. Please discuss Barack Obama’s bona fides to become Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. (please write a minimum of three paragraphs for full credit)
OR
2. Please discuss John McCain’s bona fides to become Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. (please write a minimum of three paragraphs for full credit)
Which would you pick? Hands down . . .I’d pick Question #2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subtle but very important point: the president is NOT the "Commander in Chief of the U.S.;" he is the COC of the U.S. ARMED FORCES. He does not now, nor has he ever been, "commander" of U.S. CITIZENS.

Plus, I don't want a president who betrayed his country by making propaganda films for the enemy. I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same, but I think that should disqualify me from the presidency.

I guess that would make the essay tester unqualified for his chosen job, wouldn't it?

Every day, in every way, Obama is getting more right wing.

But this tends to happen to politicians soon after they start costing up to Rupert Murdoch.

andy @ 1:

well he's got Madeliane "500 thousadn Iraqi children dead was worth it" Allbright on his foreign policy team, one more mass murdering liar won't do any harm.

What? I thought Albright was one of the good ones...now I'm all discombobulated.

Adm. Fallon was our firewall in the middle east. He had spent years developing relationships and respect in the region, only to be removed for his unwillingness to poke Iran in the eye.

I read the Esquire story right before he got canned and it was illuminating to say the least.

I really respect Gates as a person. Many of you may not know what job he left to take on this thankless job that would last only about 2 years. He was President of Texas A&M and by all accounts he had stated many times that it was the best job he had ever had. He walked away from a cushy job that he truly loved to walk into a shitty situation, with impossible tasks and having a giant bullseye painted across his chest and he took it anyway. He knew that whatever he was able to accomplish, he probably would not get credit for it and that he would get blamed for a lot of things that were put in motion long before he got there. He also knew that he would have the job for a little over two years and would not be able to return to the job he loved. How many of us would do that? I may disagree with a lot of his politics and positions but I have to give the man credit for putting service to his country before his own needs. I am also a Longhorn, so sticking up for an Aggie republican is not easy.

Do I think he would be a great fit for Obama and his cabinet? I am not sure, but of all of Bush's appointees he is one that deserves at least a second look and always our respect.

Gates is probably the only thing keeping Chimpy and his wingnut crew from invading Iran. He's not a blindly loyal, borderline retard...something we usually see in the Chimpy Administration.

I have no issues with him.

Marvin El Canucki @ 86:

CD @ 5:

Gates seems to have a handle on the situation and he seems to be just following orders from the top and doing his best to keep Bush from going to crazy on Iran and the rest of the world. I think this move would be a telling one by Obama that he values experience over party affiliation which is something I think the American people can appreciate. Unless Gates drums up anything before the elections I don't see this as a bad rumor.

Oye.

Gates got handed a shit sandwich by Rummie, Cheney and Bush and was told to eat it.

Look at the fucking mess the guy got handed and he appears to be trying to keep things from at least getting worse.

Well he eats shit sandwiches and is ready to follow his boss to hell. Great, now how do you spell T-O-A-D-Y?

Chuck Hagel for Sec of Defense.
Joe Biden for Sec of State.

Secretary of defense, Robert Gates should be shown the door like the rest of the Bush crowd. I don't mind if Senator Obama wants to have a bi-partisan cabinet, but he should pick a Republican with few, if any, ties to Bush.

LibertyLover @ 94:

How about hiring the best person for the job regardless of party label?

That's not possible because the Far Left doesn't want unity to lead to actual results that the Republicans can also take credit for......the Far Left wants disunity on their own terms.

Lib in Texas is right. When Gates came to A&M, I thought "Great, another Bushie Republican". But his performance surprised me. A&M often would do things by the seat of their pants and Gates brought in expectations of professionalism and doing things by the book. He really improved the university. We were sad to see him go in some respects, but were hopeful he could have some influence with W and Cheney. He's done the best he could with the power that he has. I think he really and truly cares for this country above party label, and that's why he left a job that he loved. (Plus, he reportedly is disgusted with our governor, Perry, as is 61%+ of the Texas population. That alone, in my book, shows excellent judgment.)

Mister Anderson @ 97:

LibertyLover @ 94:

How about hiring the best person for the job regardless of party label?

That's not possible because the Far Left doesn't want unity to lead to actual results that the Republicans can also take credit for......the Far Left wants disunity on their own terms.

coming from the resident expert on the "Far Left", bwahahaha

next

liberalDAPoJUSTICEmoderation @ 98:

Samson- @ 90:

liberalDAPoJUSTICEmoderation @ 83:

andy @ 1:

What? I thought Albright was one of the good ones...now I'm all discombobulated.

if you like neoliberalism, sure.

if, like me, you find it a pox on the world, then not so much.

Yeah...not so fond of words that start neo, and end in ism...usually means bad things.

otherwise known as 'the washington consensus'

and, yes, bad, very bad. think neoconservatism without the military invasion. or, better yet, think slavery without taking people out of their own country. economic neocolonialism for the benefit of market fundamentalists and corporations.

Samson- @ 55:

theWalrus @ 42:

Supporting FISA, now this?

All part of Obama's "move to the center"?

Bad move.

don't forget NAFTA and his backtracking

keeping robert gates on would signify that obama would continue the imperial status quo. yes, gates has slowed down the march towards war with iran, but still has a military-empire world view.

i see this as another 'screw the liberals, they HAVE to vote for us, what other choice do they have, mwhahaha'

Sounds familiar. Bill Clinton anyone?

ConcernedCanuck @ 105:

porter melmoth @ 88:

Dump Bob Gates, then draft Wes Clark for Defense.

Clark? The war criminal? Nice. Meet the change you expected!

Anyone else notice that almost every person behind the scenes for BOTH of these "nominees" has been around for quite some time? Change you can sure take to the bank, huh?

Well, if I had things my way, there would BE no Defense Dept. But idealism usually goes right out the window. The degree of compromise in the leaders of today is mind-boggling. There are no wholly virtuous leaders, but some are less offensive than others. Gruesome, but true.

Gates is certainly an improvement over his predecessor and well above the norm for Bush cabinet secretaries. He's held higher ups accountable firing a Secretary of the Air Force and its Chief of Staff for the Taiwan missile affair and the general in charge of Walter Reed. This is much better than the heck of job Bush gives out.

And I do agree that he (and the Pentagon) is blocking an attack on Iran.

Keeping him on during the transition may not be a bad idea unless Obama has a rock star to replace him. I think Sam Nunn has always wanted it, but whether he would do anything with is another matter.

I've thought myself on more than one occasion that keeping Gates on might not be the worst idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfQG0I9eTWk

xoites defends Constituion @ 29:

Bud @ 27:

It's not only the Repubs and Independs that he needs to convince. There are Democrats out there who are also concerned about his lack of experience. The only "change" I see him doing right now is turning into a republican. I hope that all the people who fell for his smooth talk are feeling very stupid right now. Or at least ashamed of yourselves.

Just for you i will feel stupid and ashamed.

Can i go to the bathroom now?

Just remember to put the toilet seat down. I was at my friends house this weekend and I didn't put it back down and she kinda fell in. It was her birthday and she was just a little tippsy. Ooops!

Mister Anderson @ 97:

LibertyLover @ 94:

How about hiring the best person for the job regardless of party label?

That's not possible because the Far Left doesn't want unity to lead to actual results that the Republicans can also take credit for......the Far Left wants disunity on their own terms.

What does that mean... the Far-Left? eh? Describe it for me, will you. Because I talk to all sorts of people and they have all sorts of opinions on all sorts of things. I rarely meet anyone who is so far left that they are at the tiny end of that bell curve or contrarily, on the other end of the bell curve to the right. Most people's views are thoughtful and reasoned based on their world view.

So please, tell me what the so-called "Far Left" looks like, will you? Because I sure as heck haven't seen it and I doubt that you have. Or Bill O'Reilly either for that matter, who is the only flippin' person that ever uses that term on a regular basis. And if you choose to get your news from him, then you deserve the "news" you get from him.

The perception that Obama is willing to consider Gates at DoD is important. Actually having Gates at DoD come Jan. 21st, 2009 in not so important.

This is a feint, just like all those prospective VP candidates the Repubs love to toss at Obama. No ex-Bushies in the "changed" administration though. If it needs to be said.

bushco must go, period!

Hollman you make a good argument, but I have to go with texasbob on this one...
For every 100 pieces of shit Bushie appointed, he may have mistakenly appointed a gem.
So I think we see how he does without BushCo before we just write him off.

if he keeps gates i wont be voting for him a 2nd time around.

texasbob @ 120:

Gates by all accounts is a capable manager, a responsible, moderating and reasoning force within the otherwise dysfunctional Bush regime.

He's certainly been capable and responsible for the past couple of years in helping to cover up the many, many flaws and disasters of the Iraq/Afghanistan war policy for his friends in the Bush administration. I can't think of a better person to help keep those things under wraps during an Obama administration.

All of this happy horseshit about Gates preventing a war with Iran sure doesn't mesh with what Seymour Hersh's article in the New Yorker this week says. Apparently Gates has been overseeing covert military operations in a country we're not at war with. Yet.

If Obama keeps him on, at least the new war with Iran that will be launched before the nomination will have a smooth managerial transition.

xoites defends Constituion @ 6:

Personally i think Bill Gates is probably the best Republican in Bush's Cabinet. The proof lies in the fact that he has not yet fucked things up beyond all repair. This, of course, does not qualify him for the job.

Bill Gates is the Microsoft guy. Robert Gates is whom they were referring to. I mean, I'm pretty sure.

WTF!!!

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And we're the idiots for voting for Nader? Haha, wasted vote, tell me about it.