John McCain uses Swiftboater Bud Day to attack Wesley Clark
By John Amato Sunday Jun 29, 2008 7:00pm
So much for McCain's Truth Squad. What a joke. McCain just trotted out a man who was a leading voice from the Swift boaters against John Kerry, Bud Day.
Sen. John McCain's campaign on Monday launched the McCain "Truth Squad" - a group of political and Vietnam contemporaries who would counter attacks on the Senator's military record. In hopes of nipping any criticism in the bud, the campaign brought on board a man quite familiar with how these types of attacks gain legs: Bud Day, a fellow POW who was part of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that worked so hard to defame Sen. John Kerry's own Vietnam record.
On the conference call, Day - in addition to the other participants - decried comments made by Gen. Wesley Clark over the weekend, in which he questioned whether McCain's war experience really qualified him to be commander-in-chief. Defending McCain's service, Day was quick to personalize his remarks, attack.
That Day would politicize Vietnam in his defense of McCain is not surprising. During the 2004 campaign, he said of Kerry: "My view is he basically will go down in history sometime as the Benedict Arnold of 1971." And after appearing in a national advertisement for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign, Day formed the Vietnam Veterans Legacy Foundation, an extension of the Swift Boat effort.
Asked to compare the attacks he helped launched against Kerry in 2004 to those being waged at McCain today, Day said the defining issue was truthfulness.
This only makes Obama’s remarks about Clark all the more regrettable. What a liar that Bud Young is.. At least he could have said "truthiness"....
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When Obama gets swiftboated does he think McCain will play Mr. Nice Guy?
Does he really think McCain will make a speech about how good-a-guy
Obama is?
NUTS!
Ladies and gentlemen: Just further proof that this country is in rapid decline. More unending bullshit that drains the energy and will of those with a brain.
Anyone willing to bet that America has seen its best days?
The Truth Hurts @ 2:
I don't need further proof. I need people to put the brakes on this slide into oblivion. Wringing our hands over it is not working.
Whatever happened to studying political science and the law
And religious history and philosophy like I did?
Yet all I do is make dirty jokes on blogs.
ysbaddaden @ 4:
No, some of your jokes are not dirty.
The Democrats are punching bags.
Are they self loathing people?
Do they really enjoy being stepped on?
Do they really like the label "spineless pussies"?
I can't help getting pissed about it, they look weak
I would really like to see Dems come out swinging to take Repug heads off!
I would like to see Dems with some chest thumping bravado!
I would like to see a party that has MOXY.
If they followed this advice I don't think they would have to worry about
being viewed as week on the issues of national security.
Bud Day is an old fool who served his country well (or did he). regardless as I dont know, thank you for your service, sir. but please be quiet as no one cares what you think and never did before you swiftboated Kerry in 04. youre only relevance now is to be an antagonist.
Dear Jesus,
Please take the crusty useless evil life of Bud Day.
Thank you Lord.
Amen
weak*
Hey, I understand. Obama plays the nice guy while his surrogate give McLame a bloody nose
xoites defends Constituion @ 5:
And, dirty or not, about half the time your jokes aren't funny.
*ZING!* :D
Its thinking like that, thats makes me like the guy.
Is it me or does that Bud guy looks like Yoda. "Obama young he is."
Day said the defining issue was truthfulness.
Okay, the truth is that McCain was shot down and became a POW. That isn't arguable.
What will always be arguable, and can never be defined as truth, is whether being shot down and captured gives you some extra qualification to be the POTUS.
McCain looks tall and almost healthy next to that guy! I suppose next he'll drag Day around and not have to have his mother on hand. How did anyone that short (McCain is 5'6" or 5' 8" whichever) get in the military anyway!
So getting shot down and captured does qualify you to be President?
Obama should put Wesley Clark on top of his list of nominees as a Vice President.
General Clark is well known and respected general,and what he said about McCain is the truth. Obama should let Clark do the talking..
This sweet talk by Obama of McCain will get him or Democrats nowhere.
These Swiftboaters are ready,just like in all last 5 elections to smear, and Obama now is their target.
Obama should seperate patriotism from qualaifications of McCain to be a president,or he will be in trouble. Nobody questioned the patriostism of McCain, but Clark did question service as criteria to be chosen as a president.
Now we know what Hillary Clinton and Diane Feinstein talked about when Barack met with them. They told him he will need to take techniques from Hillary's campaign strategy in order to win. Didn't Hillary lose? Barack is accepting Hillary's losing approach. Barack won't win now. He's watered down his brand. He's accepted being weak as his campaign approach.
Nice going, Obama. Looks like we got another bonehead
trying to be president. All you people that crabbed about
Hillary will be sorry she isn't the candidate instead of Obama.
Clark should come out for McCain. Obama is a weasel.
11 Andy K Jong Il
I'm not sure if I'm an absurdist (I love Monty Python) or a cynic, or both.
Cynics are oft-times clever, and can turn out a well timed phrase, but not necessarily for a laugh.
Too many people compare satire to parody.
I think I see Karl Rove's arm up McTaint's ass. Look at the puppet go!
First of all, shame on John McCain. To allow this creep to be at his side is disgraceful. Second, what Wesley Clark said is true of anyone, not just McCain. Being a soldier does not a qualified president make. Period. Simple. We could say that about many categories that one might attach to candidates. Being white, black, male, female; these are not qualities that make one qualified. What makes one qualified is one's experience with the issues, thoughtfulness about the issues, actions on the issues. Shame on McCain for grandstanding on these comments. But, of course, this is no surprise. He doesn't have a grasp of the issues that would qualify him to be president.
well, the repugs insisted that everyone has
the right to own and carry guns.....what
better use could you have than to exercise
that right being crammed down your throat.
remember blackwater is being groomed by
the bush/cheney admin. to take over the
country if obama is looking like a sure win.
Andy K Jong Il @ 14:
From what i can tell being able to look the American People in the eye and lie with a straight face is really the only requirement. If the Media/Industrial Complex refuses to call you on it then Diebold is already working things out to make sure you get elected.
No other bonafides are required.
That guy sure looks OLD!!!
brokaw on 'meet the press' referred to mccain as a war hero again. i don't understand how a pow is a war hero. clark's remarks were gentle and if the msm keeps referring to mccain as a hero, they need to be called out.
McGramp's contemporary?
A caption for the picture above...
Yes my friend, when kids are trespassing on my front rock garden in Arizona, I find it useful to yell, (pretend this is in caps) "Hey you kids, get off of my lawn!"
15 Jusker
I'm 5'3" and served in the Air Force
I may've been 5'4" at the time
But life's hammered me down.
It's hammering time.
This asshole sold out his country for George Bush...Bud's military service (whatever it was) will never make up for that fact. And in 100 years when history looks back it will be Bud Day who is the Benedict Arnold of our time. And actually that's not fair to General Arnold...he was looking to surrender to a hostile military who he may or may not have thought were going to kill each and every man at the fort. Bud, on the other hand, was selling out his country for nothing more in a few bucks, for the tax breaks and other benefits people like Bud enjoy when a criminal Republican administration is in the White House. And for that Bud Day is much much worse.
Ratface @ 19:
You're kidding, right? You don't think that Clark didn't know that Obama would be distancing himself from Clark publically?
What Clark did is known as "taking one for the team".
-------------
ysbaddaden @ 20:
Don't get me wrong, you make me laugh a lot, ysbaddaden, and most of the time you're looking for it, satire, absurdism, observationally, whatever...But you do let some klinkers go.
Me gone now
Time to turn on The Green Hornet
No, not that way
I'm not into insectuality.
Really pathetic and pitiful Obama.
Who is next to be tossed under the bus?
His wife?
I bet Clinton will have the General's back.
Really F*ing Old meets even F*ing older. (You pick)
Google "Songbird McCain" and swiftboat that
Of course Brokaw failed to mention that McOldman destroyed a million dollar jet. Didn't the Bush Administration try to make wounded service people pay for their destroyed armor in Iraq?
The way I see McCain is quite simple. I don't see substantial command experience while he was in the military. And, as a Senator, he seemed to have an "enemy recognition" problem in not figuring out that our fight was with Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, not the Iraqis. Also, a while back, while championing the war in Iraq, he didn't make the distinctions between Shiite and Sunni.
That tells me he want to be a "give them heck" cheerleader, and leave the details to subordinates. And Lieberman slobbering over him tells me that those subordinates are the same neocon idiots that have formulated policy over the last 8 years. I don't see commander in chief credentials here.
Obama was in Missouri today talking about patriotism, and saying he isn't going to challenge anyone's patriotism. That needs to be revisited. I would challenge the patriotism of anyone who deliberately misrepresented a national security threat in order to commit troops to a needless war, resulting in over 4000 US fatalities. I also question the patriotism of those who tolerate these kinds of people.
To that end, since McCain says that, knowing now what he knows, that he would do Iraq again, would he be willing to mislead Congress and the nation again, knowing that a representation that Iraq wasn't a national security threat, would cost over $600B, and was solely a nation building endeavor would never cause Congress or the nation to support the war?
Okay, last thought, Benedict Arnold probably saw no difference in what he did and how George Washington surrendered Fort Necessity, and even signed a paper saying that the French-Indian war was the British's fault (his home team.)
Right now on Countdown, both Obama and Keith Olbermann have stated how McCain's patriotism should not be questioned. Olbermann went so far as to declare how McCain's military service is "sacrosanct." What neither of these two alleged liberals have thought to do is to think critically by wondering whether McCain should have blindly obeyed those orders which told him to incinerate Vietnamese civilians with napalm from 35,000 feet in the air. Apparently just further proof that flag waving liberals will allow their brains to shut down and their chests swell with pride whenever the word patriotism is floated in the air.
Erroll @ 38:
You mean this? This is going on now in Iraq, but the American Networks have blocked showing it to Americans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev2dEqrN4i0
wheeee @ 6:
wheeee @ 6:
#36- NoBuddy,
Agree with you 100%
"...this Bud's for you..."
Bud's been good to McHensleysCommerceCommitteePuppet...
...a budwipe for a budwipe...
...when you say budwiper, you've said it all...
Homage to yousbadd
;-}
obama's comments were oblique not direct....i think it was good strategy on his part it got the discussion out there........i question mcBlame's ability to be commander and chief......i don't question his patriotism.
mccain will be third bush term.....that's been pointed out now the obama campaign has to test the pow theme...many people/the public will identify with mcBlame just because of his past 40 yrs. ago that's not enough for me....that was two generations ago....nonsense has been thrown at obama let's not forget.
mcBlames calendar age is 71-72 but biological i'll bet it's close to 78-79........the world has changed dramatically and will continue change at a speed never experienced before...the world is digital not analog
we need a change this is the transition to that change.
The big win for Obama today would have been for him (personally, not some surrogate) to come out and say, "Well, does getting shot down in a fighter plane qualify someone to be President?"
Obama has chosen a path to losing the Presidential Election of 2008 for the Democratic Party starting today.
McCain has a deeper military record than Wesley Clark? Well, he clearly must have a bigger penis.
John McCain's military record is above scrutiny - John McCain's exploitation of his military record for political gain is not. Is it that hard to note the distinction?
cg @ 46:
Its impossible. McCain has Monster Media Machine (used to be God, this is more powerful) on his side.
Soon McCain will say "Obama didn't serve in the military. He is not patriotic". There will be silence from the media about questioning someone's patriotism. Obama thinks the media will be fair. What a fool.
Nice going, Obama. Looks like we got another bonehead
trying to be president. All you people that crabbed about
Hillary will be sorry she isn’t the candidate instead of Obama.
Clark should come out for McCain. Obama is a weasel.
You really dont think Hillary "McCain is ready day one" wouldnt have run away from Clark's comments in the same way? Please.
WTF is wrong with Obama?... he needs to wake the fuck up!
Anyone with a line to him.. let him know it is ok to be a Liberal.. let him know it is ok to use a gun when stabbed in the back!
Bringing in Bud Day, the next day, shows how the Rovians will continue to play hardball and throw pitches high and hard. Meanwhile, in the tradition of the "Gentleperson Democrat" the stupid Dems (and some in this blog) continue to believe that the electorate will see through dirty Republican strategies. My guess is that they continue to want the Presidency more than the Dems.
The Obama camp cannot take the bait, no matter how tempting, no matter how ridiculous the wingnuts try and make an argument that McLame's time in Vietnam as a POW is relevant to anything. It's not truth that matters to most voters and this is another example of a strategy to avoid a conflagration by speaking it.
I heard from someone who heard from someone who thought he knew someone who might have been someone connected to Bud Day that he likes to molest farm animals.
Everybody needs to chill out on Obama. He did the right thing by denouncing Clark’s comments!!!
Although it is true that being a Naval Pilot and/or being shot down does not necessarily provide any specific experience that qualifies one to be President… It was unwise for Clark to say that McCain was untested and untried and that he had never been in a position where he had to understanding risks, gauge his opponents, or be held accountable. Also, Clark mentions that McCain has never run anything as an executive.
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he has to endure countless comparisons between his and McCain’s testedness, triedness, understanding of risk, experience gauging opponents, experience being held accountable, and experience working as an executive.
McCain’s Media would not allow these comparisons to work out well for Obama nor would they allow them to go away any time soon.
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he irreparably damages his candidacy.
John - you should be savvy enough to recognize this simple truth and stop inciting anti-Obama sentiment.
K.O.'s special comments are right on.
Defending Wes Clark
by
Lt. General Robert G. Gard Jr. (USA, Ret.), 06.30.2008
BIO
As a retired military officer and a soldier, I can tell you that there's nothing in what Wes Clark said about McCain with which I disagree. He has not only stated the facts, he knows something about them.
kerplunk @ 45:
The plan is to attack Obama as not being patriotic by getting him to out McLame as his military service somehow making him qualified of anything. If he does not take the bait and continues to be complimentary the smears wither and die.
kerplunk @ 45:
It was probably AIPAC, but I wasn't certain until FISA.
Clark is on Abrams show right now. I hope he doesn't apologize for his remarks.
Lt. General Robert G. Gard Jr. (USA, Ret.):
Erroll @ 38:
what the fuck are you talking about?
HELLO
America has a few problems to deal with.
America is involved in a war 10000 miles away , with no end in site . which is draining resources , big time.
America's manufacturing sector has been devistated and it will not recover , depite all the political rhetoric.
The sub prime and debt issue that will take another five years to heal and which will make the lives of a lot of Americans very miserable.
A Federal debt of close to $ 10 trillion and it appears that the next president will face a deficit in 2009 of $ 1 trillion.
And I read today that California , is in a financial crisis . What's his name is the Governor there, and he was supposed to be the one that would straighten evrything out.
And these swiftboater types are playing this juvenile game.
" The Truth Hurts @ # 2"
" not the last days" . But the backward slide has started.
Dan is doing his best to get Clark to apologize and kiss McCain's POW ass. So far Wes ain't buying. Good for him.
Ron @ 55:
Only in one respect, as it applies to the immunity aspect of the bill. He totally ignores the new sweeping powers the new bill gives the President. Watch FISA for Dummies and tell me it is ok to vote for this bill.
kerplunk @ 39:
Yes, exactly like that. That iconic image was also featured in the powerful Oscar-winning 1974 documentary Hearts and Minds. It is because of images like this that America has become one of the most hated countries on the face of the earth.
Some interesting Bud Day info at Viet Nam Veterans Against McCain Because I'm an eejit, I'm having trouble linking it...off to my monday night jam session...
[FIFY-Sitemonitor]
breakspear @ 7:
I served in the Riverine Navy in Vietnam about 2 years after Mr. Kerry. While I do honor the miltary service of anyone who served, in the case of Mr. Day and Mr. McCain, I personally think are acting like a couple of old farts. Both are chronically anal-retentive and need a strong dose of Geritol.
Me? Yes, I'm an old fart, but I'm totally cool.
How long will it be when that jackass , Obama
will be telling us what a great guy Day is?
Well, I predicted earlier that Clark would be apologizing before the day was over. I was wrong. Way to go, Wes. He said all the right things and hit the right notes. The guy is good. I'm sure the Rightwing will not let go of this manufactured hitjob. It's going to take on a life of its own and enter the noise machine.
Slowboat Veterans for Dummies.
Not The Same
What Wesley Clark said about John McCain in not Swiftboating. It is an opinion. McCain's folks seem to be "squeezing blood from a tulip" as they try to make something out of nothing.
To say Clark was Swiftboating is proof the Republicans are desperate. They have nothing to build on with McCain, so they are left with trying to take their opponent down. I dare them to put John Kerry's Swiftboating along side of Clark's statement. It would show how misleading the Republicans are. Just to prove what I am saying, I will put the two comments next to each other:
John Kerry's Swiftboating statement - "John Kerry did not earn his medals; he never earned the medal in the way he did."
Wesley Clark's so called Swiftboating statement - " Just because you were a prisoner of war does not make you qualified for president."
You make the call. Don't let the media do it for you. The right-wing conservative media will make everything they can more political then it needs to be, and if they can create a monster lie, they will.
Those of you who know anything about true Democratic morality know we don't do the Swiftboat thing. I am a Democrat, so I am not speaking from a third party perspective. I pretty much know what I am about, and I know why I chose the Party I relate to.
I am sadden by Barack Obama's move to distance himself from Clark. Obama could of help to define what Clark was saying: "just because you fought in a war does not make you qualified for president." That is not Swiftboating.
On the front end of this incident is the media. They defined Clarke's comments comments as Swiftboating. Yet, I bet others would of put those same comments in the perspective they were meant to be in.
Joseph
Joseph
Oh.My.God. Dan Abrams is trying to give Clark ONE LAST TIME to apologize! WTF is wrong with these people?????
xoites defends Constituion @ 64:
I have never said it's okay to vote on this bill. I was referring to the corner Obama has painted himself into.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory Over SCLM and DIEBOLD! @ 61:
Did you watch the program? If you did, then that should have answered your less than intelligent inquiry. Again, both Obama and Olberman have stated that it is a given that McCain's military service is above reproach. As I tried to point out, apparently to no avail, bombing Vietnamese civilians with napalm [I suggest that you click on to Kerplunk's link, which demonstrates the effects of napalm on people] is illegal under the Geneva Conventions and is considered a war crime, which raises the question why John McCain has not been prosecuted at The Hague for war crimes. John McCain should be considered not a hero but rather a war criminal.
For any of you who would like to know what REALLY happened to Bud Day and other prisoners of war, go to http://www.historynet.com/bud-day-vietnam-war... .
Those of you who brutally "want him dead" etc will learn that he has already suffered more hell than any of you could imagine. Shame on all of your hateful comments.
Joseph @ 71:
Wesley Clark's so called Swiftboating statement - " Just because you were a prisoner of war does not make you qualified for president."
I am sadden by Barack Obama's move to distance himself from Clark. Obama could of help to define what Clark was saying: "just because you fought in a war does not make you qualified for president." That is not Swiftboating.
Joseph
Clark also said that McCain was untested and untried and that he had never been in a position where he had to understand risks, gauge his opponents, or be held accountable. Also, Clark mentions that McCain has never run anything as an executive.
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he has to endure countless comparisons between his and McCain’s testedness, triedness, understanding of risk, experience gauging opponents, experience being held accountable, and experience working as an executive.
This would not work out well for Obama!!!
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he irreparably damages his candidacy!!!
Ron @ 73:
Ok, then he needs to unpaint himself. As Olberman said, he is damned (by the Republicans) either way so he may as well do the right thing.
Clark did not back off and I agree with him. He made a statement of fact. If the GOP and the media are going to try to promote McCain as someone that should be POTUS because he is a hero, this should be relevant.
SuperChrist @ 75:
Clark also said that McCain was untested and untried and that he had never been in a position where he had to understand risks, gauge his opponents, or be held accountable. Also, Clark mentions that McCain has never run anything as an executive.
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he has to endure countless comparisons between his and McCain’s testedness, triedness, understanding of risk, experience gauging opponents, experience being held accountable, and experience working as an executive.
This would not work out well for Obama!!!
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he irreparably damages his candidacy!!!
I think too much is being read into Clark's comments. How else can he say McCain's experiences in the War does not give him executive decision experience? There is nothing offensive about what Clark said. I bet you don't have to debate what was done to Kerry. This a media driven attack on Clark and Obama's supporters.
Joseph
Ron @ 77:
This whole flap over what Clark said is the biggest crock of shit yet. There are millions of veterans, hell, there are millions of people in this country who simply are not qualified to be President of the United States and John McCain happens to be one of them.
Dan Abrams is a repug hack trying to make us liberals think he is on our side.
When McShame stands next to Bud Day, McShame actually looks young!
Obama should have never, never, never kicked Clark off the bus. What Clark said was right on. It sure didn't take long for the repugs to get the msm lined up in their camp and try to swift boat Clark.
kerplunk @ 39:
maybe we can update that a bit:
http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/
a reality check on those who blame the volunteer army for their own plight and for those who don't understand the meaning of sacrifice.
WAR IS PERSONAL!
In case I haven't said this before on C&L, MCCAIN IS NO HERO!!! In my heart he will never be a hero. Liar, yes.
liberAL @ 80:
He is a Media/Industrialist Hack who is doing what his bosses tell him to do.
theWalrus @ 72:
Wesley Clark Stands By McCain Criticism
Despite heavy criticism, Gen. Wesley Clark is standing by his statement this weekend that Sen. John MCain's military experience doesn't qualify him to be commander-in-chief.
"I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war," Clark said of McCain on Sunday. "But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded -- that wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall."
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory Over SCLM and DIEBOLD! @ 81:
That makes (i was going to say, "want to" but its too late) cry.
liberAL @ 80:
Right on; I am glad someone sees things my way.
Joseph
"WES CLARK: I MEANT WHAT I SAID"
Got spine?
Obama does not.
getalife @ 87:
Time to stop looking for spine in other people and get one of your own.
Rolls over on FISA. Rolls over on Wesley. But he doesn't "do cower". Okay.. whatever.
Joseph @ 78:
I think too much is being read into Clark's comments. How else can he say McCain's experiences in the War does not give him executive decision experience? There is nothing offensive about what Clark said. I bet you don't have to debate what was done to Kerry. This a media driven attack on Clark and Obama's supporters.
Joseph
He can say just that... that McCain's experiences in the War does not give him executive decision experience.
When he adds not tested, not accountable, no executive experience… he opens up unwanted comparisons between McCain and Obama in these areas.
McCain’s media would slay Obama with these comments if he did not denounce them.
Today, Wes Clark held his ground regarding yesterday's remarks about McCain. Good for him! The teevee hacks must be spinning frantically. They're losing control of the presidential debate. They 're loosing their ability to intimidate. They're loosing their relevance. Hopefully, finally, Democrats will follow Clark's lead and plow through the idiotic hacks on teevee. Good for Wesley Clark!
xoites defends Constituion @ 85:
Anyone who doesn't understand needs a checkup from the neck up! These shits in washDC don't have any family in harm's way, save for webb, whose son's service may have ended after an injury(I'm not sure of details).
mcC*nt is part of the group who fuck them over in the service and wnated to fuck them over after using them up.
I'm sick of it!
SuperChrist @ 90:
simply put, the media is taking this as an opportunity to rally around mcC*nt.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory Over SCLM and DIEBOLD! @ 92:
And he and Bush took credit today for what Webb worked his ass off to create while they fought him all the way. The gall is beyond comprehension.
HB Acker @ 91:
It's a good thing he didn't bring up the carnage McCain caused when he wet started his jet on the aircraft carrier. Whoa, maybe he should have and let McCain lie his way out of that one.
The media didn't say a word outside of Olbermann.
89 xoites defends Constituion
getalife @ 87:
“WES CLARK: I MEANT WHAT I SAID”
Got spine?
Obama does not.
Time to stop looking for spine in other people and get one of your own
________________________________________________________________
To quoth Bart Simpson, quothing the Babylonian Talmud, "May you be as supple as the willow, and not rigid like the ceder."
End quoth quoth.
jim webb had a take on the credit given to mcC*nt
maybe Obama would have benefited from service time. they teach you not to back down, to properly gauge your enemy.
Ron @ 95:
Ron, i have some questions about that story. I saw anther version done by (i think) the BBC. It has an entirely different version of what happened that day. The truth, at this point, seems elusive.
xoites defends Constituion @ 99:
Send me a link later on open thread. I've read simular articles.
Here is what i watched today about the Forrestal, it is in five parts.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory Over SCLM and DIEBOLD! @ 81:
"... for those who don't understand the meaning of sacrifice." Are you actually attempting to say that that poor bastard in that photo ended up being sacrificed for some ambiguous noble cause? No, he was not, he was lied to by his government just as I when while in a place called Vietnam. That soldier ended up as cannon fodder for absolutely no justifiable reason, which is all the more reason why the soldiers today [as the soldiers who participated in the GI movement some thirty five to forty years ago did] should say that they will no longer allow themselves to be used by their uncaring government. Resist, flee, go AWOL, desert. Not does it make absolutely any sense for those in the military today to end up maimed and crippled for the good old USA since the UCMJ states that they have a duty and an obligation NOT to obey unlawful orders [sections 809, 891, 892], which they certainly have been given in Iraq and Afghanistan.
As former Marine Dan Felushko said in the very relevant book by Robert Fantina-Desertion and the American Soldier-1776-2006 [which should, of course, include the present], "I didn't want 'Died deluded in Iraq' over my gravestone."
Correction to comment #100
The last sentence of the first paragraph should read "Nor does it make absolutely any sense for those in the military today..."
The swiftboating of Kerry was a multi-layered program that was much more comprehensive then what we saw developed on the national playing field that Bud Day is credited with.
I was running a Democratic Campaign headquarters in a small north Idaho community during the 2004 campaign in which we were subjected to a bizarre attack that still irritates me and showed what scumbags the repukes really are.
A fellow accompanied by an Asian women came into our headquarters. The town was small enough that we knew everybody that lived there just about - and they were strangers, for sure. He was carrying a map of the Viet Nam area professionally mounted on a piece of plywood. The map showed the waters that were patrolled by the swift boats during the war. The fellow started a rehearsed rant about Kerry and his patriotism, his service etc. he got quite personal and kept saying that he was a swift-boater and that he resented Kerry. I let him rave for a couple of minutes then told him that if he had a point to make - it was lost on us, and escorted him from the headquarters. They jumped in their waiting vehicle and went on to the next town 30 miles away and repeated the performance. He wasn't old enough to have served in Viet Nam nor she old enough to have been married there during the war. Tricks like that tell a lot about an opponent - and I sure as heck hope that Obama's people know what lays in store for them.
Any Vietnam combat veteran knows damn good and well that the medals he bled for 35 years ago wouldn't buy him a cup of coffee then, and theirs won't buy a veteran of our latest foreign misadventure one now. The whole "we honor your service" and "we support the troops" is bullshit. American soldiers are muscle for imperialism, armed labor, nothing more. On those dark nights of the soul when starring into black nothingness from a fox hole or a roof top or a sandbagged bunker in somebody else's country... they know it.
Have obviously been working too-long hours today at the computer. That heading looked like Swiftboater Pud Day
This doggone phony show is terrifying to watch. Old men acting out roles. Is this all the shameless Republicans can muster? I was starting to feel sorry for the codgers but then i began seeing the smirk, the one that knows something you don't. Whenever fascists start losing public support they call up an army of old men, grampas with lots of medals, with that been dere dun dat twinkling charisma and the inevitable smirk behind it all. Meanwhile the machine keeps rolling while everyone is distracted by the latest golden promises and muddy nostalgia. It's terrifying to watch a Nation being played so ugly.
Day mispronounced the defining issue. It's 'truthiness', not 'truthfulness'.
sulphurdunn @ 105:
Very well said. It is hard to comprehend that Olbermann has been deluded into falling for all this patriotic idiocy, as when he claimed that McCain military service was "sacrosanct." Olbermann may wish to ask the peasants in Vietnam if they believe McCain's service to be "sacrosanct."
Timmy_D11 @ 8:
ROFLMAO!
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 110:
He has a purpose my son. He makes Krusty the candidate look a little younger...
--------------God
2,500,000 Americans served their country in Vietnam. More than 58,000 of them lost their lives and another 304,000 were wounded. How many Vietnam survivors will even talk about what they experienced in Vietnam let alone voluntarily tell others they were there? I don't believe Gen. Clark was criticizing John McCain for his Vietnam service. He was simply being truthful in stating that he didn't believe McCain's Vietnam experience necessarily qualified him to be president. I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is someone trying to exploit their Vietnam service for personal political gain. McCain and or his surrogates have insisted on making his Vietnam service a campaign issue by repeatedly implying it qualifed McCain to be president. I am very uncomfortable with a Vietnam vet who feels the need to constantly remind everyone he was in Vietnam. Over the last 35 odd years I haven't met a Vietnam vet who wasn't proud of the fact that he was there, but I also haven't met one who tried to exploit that he was there. Well, not unless you consider accepting the offer of a cold beer exploitive.
Again it shows the absolute desperation of the lowlife, hate-filled Reslugs using all their oldest liars being McBush's age.
I agree with Obama on the McCain vs Wesley Clark issue. I get nauseous when a fellow veteran denigrates the service of another vet. McCain flew 22 successful bombing missions over Vietnam before he got shot down on his 23rd. He was a squadron leader as a Navy pilot. He was not just "riding" in an airplane.
Bud Day is the real traitor.
In attacking John Kerry's war medals, by attacking the U.S. Navy Department's issuance of these medals, Day not only called into question any medals he may have been issued, but also called into question any medals ever issued by the U.S. Navy Department to anyone in the long history of the U.S. Navy Department.
Hey, if the Navy Department screwed up in issuing medals for valor to Lt. John Kerry, then one has to ask if the Navy Department makes a habit of fraudulently issuing medals?
To get to Sen. John Kerry, to smear his war record, the Swift Boat Liars had to also smear the U.S. Navy Department, and how they issue medals.
Three week before the 2004 election, the U.S. Navy Department issued a statement in which it was stated that the Navy Department stood behind their medal awards process, since multiple witnesses are required, and that they stood behind the medals they issued to Lt. John Kerry, as well as all the medals they've ever issued to naval personnel for wartime heroics.
Of course, I happened to find this press release on the internet. The MSM didn't deem it important enough, apparently, to report that the Bush White House's U.S. Navy Department stood up for John Kerry. Go figure. What really griped my butt, though, was that no one in the Kerry campaign apparently recognized the political dynamite that this Navy Department press release represented, and so close to election day. Otherwise, they'd have run ads constantly through election day, with Sen. John Kerry standing before an American flag and defending the issuance of medals to all U.S. military personnel, including any awarded to the duplicitous members of the Swift Boat Liars. Once again, go figure. (Heckuva job, Bob Shrum).
When the truth hurts, make shit up. That is the GOP way.
#114
Are all the POWs from Vietnam qualified to be POUSA? The point is that there were over a million of us who served in Vietnam and that does not qualifiy any of us to be President. If it is so damned important, how did we get a drunken AWOL and a five deferment coward in the leadership role to start this illegal and immoral war in the Middle East.
Obama did the right thing. This election should be about the issues.
McCain pulling a Swifboater out of mothballs to stick up for him is a tremendous irony and one that the press should look into.
Obama is going to win this one. The GOP is going to pull all kinds of shit before it is over. But America is going to win this one fair and square.
You can expect the entire GOP to destroy itself over a chance to tarnish their opponents. In the end, we will pay a sad price for the GOP's ruthless ambition, but I think people will be scared away from the GOP for good.
They remind me of a strung out junkie trying to shake down his own mother. First they start talking really sweet (Hey mom, I wanted to go pick up some groceries for you. Do you have a few bucks and can I borrow your?) If that doesn't work, then they act desperate, try to scare her into handing over her purse (Mom, you have to help me. They'll kill me if you don't help me!). Then they start threatening. And, finally, they turn physically violent and wind up in prison.
BigT @ 118:
I agree. What Clark says is music to my ears. But, the reality is it's an absolutely hot bed of controversy that would be capable of dogging Obama for the weeks and months to come. You can bet your sweet ass that members of the media would be pounding their fists wondering why Obama won't address Clarks statements, while they anecdotally drum up the Rev. Wright. This is politics. There is a still a large portion of the electorate that will see attacking McCain's service record as cowardly and dirty no matter how legitimate those attacks are. You have to stop legitimizing what the dirty game scoundrels play to win elections by saying "OMG! we're gonna lose" every time your team refuses to play it.
Watching Mika and Andrea Mitchell and their love affair with their fabricated war hero John McCain was embarrassing… And they appeared to be searching for any guess on Morning Joe to be as outrage as Mika and Andrea appeared to be.
Mika and Andrea would question General Wesley Clark a man who truly dedicated his life to the military and to this country, how outrageous. This man was shot four times…. Four times in a time of actual war but neither of these women honor that but their praise is for John McCain, the man who believed in honor so much he abandoned his first wife for the Barbie Doll. Their thought process is so superficial and it shows in their journalism.
It’s funny how you come across as if you got the major story whether it’s Reverend Pfleger or General Wesley Clark pointing out something you and the media failed to do…. Why wasn’t there any mention of the McCain’s not paying the property taxes… if this were The Obama’s how would you have covered this, one quick answer, repeat
Apparently regular Citizens has do the media Job for them.
It's amazing how we have so many idiots as journalist starting with Mika and Andrea I am married to the man who endorsed John McCain, Alan Greenspan Mitchell.
A black presidential candidate who is a non-veteran cannot successfully denigrate the military service of a white candidate who served his country with valor and distinction in combat. It is a horrendous political strategy and will prove disastrous in the general election. Obama is extremely wise not to go down that road.
orcas @ 121:
True enough, but Clark was right. Being a veteran does not qualify you to be President.
Actually, being born in the United States, being over 36 and getting elected does, but that is not what he meant.
orcas @ 121:
You mean, a guy who was at the bottom of his graduating class in Navy. Who crashed more planes than a fourth grader trying to get his first paper glider off the ground. Whose dumb ass almost sunk the USS Forestall. The asshole who got to sing all those defaming anti-American papers and who left the wife --who stood loyally by him during his captivity-- as soon as he could find a better looking/wealthier model... a guy who does all that shit gets to be "sacrosant" because he wore a fucking uniform.
If you ask me, McCain is a fucking hack, getting shot down seems to be the best thing to ever happen to him... he sure seems to be milking those years of captivity for all that has been worth. Good grief, he was so fucking incompetent that he couldn't even eject properly... if it hadn't been for the Vietnamese he would have drowned.
The fact that McCain was in the navy and got shot down doesn't qualify for Presidential duty. If anything the possible PTSD the rat bastard must have suffered does disqualify him automatically from the highest office of the lad. That and the fact that he is too old, incompetent, etc... etc...
. And I am tired about military service being used as a cloak against criticism. Military personnel are a reflection of society, some of them are great, others are rotten individuals. McCain happens to be one of the rotten ones.
General Clark was right on point with this one and I think Obama would do well to support him and I hope he does not back down.
His words were taken out of contex by the usual media thugs and oh what a shame.
I do agree with Obama about getting right back in the face of these cheap thugs, when they get out of line, but he should not continue to jump each and every time they come of with these sick attacks on him and his team.
StCyrlyMe2 @ 124:
Well stated, both posts.
Bud Day disgraces the Medal of Honor using it as a cheap prop in a cheap shot political way. McCain was the bottom of his class at USNA and got his wings because of his father and grandfather being Admirals. A second rate pilot that lost five aircraft three through incompetence.
After the past going on eight years and the promise of four more from McCain bodes well for anyone but Bushlite McCain.
Bring it on...........................
Here's the truth about John McCain as substantiated by known facts:
He graduated near the bottom of his Naval Academy class,
His career as a Navy pilot wasn't distinguished by any particular heroic action; he took off, flew to the target, dropped his bombs and scurried back to the Officer's Mess.
His piloting skills weren't good enough to avoid being shot down.
He forgot everything he learned in escape and evasion class and was quickly captured.
He blew off the militarty's code of conduct that requires prisoners to continually attempt escape and to assist others in their attempts. He never did any of that.
Therefore, Wesley Clark was 100 percent on target. Getting shot down and captured requires no intellectual, decision-making or executive ability.
Being president does.
What General Clark said consisted of two things:
1.McCain's military service.
2.His military service vs. his presidency qualifications.
Clark did not question No. 1 , in fact he praised McCain's service,if you go back and read what Gen.Clark said
Clark questioned No. 2, which is McCain's qualifications in relationship to his military service.
But the media ignored No.2,and remembered only No.1 claiming that General Clark attacked McCains military service - as a hero..
CNN even went more to call Gen. Clark's words..'Swiftboating of McCain'...which is not the case and that's not what Gen. Clark said.
Other networks and many talking heads saw General Clark's words as an attack on McCain patriotism...which is not the case either.
As usual ,the news media found themselves something to chew on with this story.
Randys right we know who owns the Media, But Wes was right being shot down and being a prisoner of war does not qualify you for the presidents job
Bud day a typical republican scum bag. What a lying S.O.B.
Isn't Bud Day that thing from under the bridge that terrorized those poor goats?
Colonel Day against General Clark. I think Clark outranks him.
Joe Pasetto @ 131:
I thought a Bud Day was that piece of plumbing prostitutes used to wash out their money-makers.
Oh, sorry, that's a BID Day . . .
Never mind!
(hussien)moondancer @ 111:
(hussien)moondancer @ 111:
Oopsie
http://www.die-simpsons.de/subs/krusty/pics/Bilder/krusty14_gif.jpg
Who denigrated McCain's military service? Who?
No one. Clark went out of his way to honor McCain's service. He simply pointed out what should be obvious to anyone with a brain the size of a sunflower seed: being a POW does not confer executive military experience.
It was the media - and Obama playing inside their frame - who turned this into a "patriotism" thing.
Well, Clark was wounded in combat. He took four bullets as a young man (and still led his company to victory over the Viet Cong). He spent a year learning how to walk again. If McCain is a war hero who deserves deference then so is Clark. He doesn't deserve to be treated like shit either. And yet he's getting it not only from the media but from the man whose honor he was defending - Barack Obama.
So why doesn't Clark's military heroism count for anything with the bobbleheads? Why don't they offer the deference to him that they do to McCain?
Oh yeah, Clark is a Democrat. See Kerry, John; Cleland, Max.
Where's all this new politics I keep hearing about from Obama?
Did I not hear correctly? Was he saying "neutered politics"?
John McCain was not in any way, shape or form responsible for the tragic fire aboard the USS Forrestal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire
Obama will be shaking in his boots now that McCain has Patches O'Houlihan as a suragate. I don't know how Obama is going to be able to counter-attack the rhetoric of Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.
Give that little dwarf a big flag to stand in front of, some shiny medals, and plenty of empty nationalistic rhetoric to believe, and he's happy. Under different circumstances he would have been a perfect Nazi.
What rank did day achieve?
Clark became a general.
Did day leave after Vietnam?
Clark made a career of the military.
132 John
Now I seize you.
Obama's comment on Clark's excellent points about McCain really shouldn't be taken to seriously. It was pretty much a good way of killing any BS from fools like Lieberman or any other McCain stooge, who would claim that it is Obama making "attacks." Obama merely distanced himself from it and Clark hasn't appeared to rescind any of his comments. So, McCain's camp is basically left to deal with a very ugly truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlmmui8iq50&feature=related
The Swiftboat Vets were never proven to be anything but follow comrades telling their side of a story that was being systematically squashed and distorted by the Lame Stream Media to further their thinly-veiled political agenda. Using the usual par-for-the-course logic, lefties turn any attempt at fairly telling both side of a story as being somehow unfair. This illuminates which side is actively dividing this country. "No-one is allowed an option that disagrees with us". Damming, demonizing and silencing those whose only desire is to have a hearing of all sides, is a Fascist trait. I am saddened to observe the level of discourse to which both sides have sunk. I am watching the greatest nation the world has ever known commit societal suicide and enjoy the process. It disgusts me to read the way you all dehumanize your perceived enemies. Understanding this is exactly how all the armies in the history of man trained their soldiers to dispassionately slay their query. Happy murdering you-all, I'm not playing any more.
I'm not sure who's more out of their mind McSame or Dud Bay.
Wesley Clark was right, Mr. Magoo. Being a bad pilot and a POW doesn't make you presidential material. Now how many planes did you wreck?
SuperChrist @ 75:
I would like to further advance the argument with an " according to" analogy. According to your point anyone serving in the armed forces automatically has what it takes to be president. It is absurd if not a shallow inclusion to what makes a president. Lets face it this was so hyped to hurt the Obama camp.
Joseph
hey BUD..your daddy shoulda used a condom.....the world would be better off now....
Bud Day, untill he can prove otherwise, should be considered a pedophile. He also didn't earn the medal he is wearing. He is a communist simpathizer, unionizer, inter-racial love slave to a large black man named Ubangee. He should not be trusted......
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