Wesley Clark on Face the Nation: CNN accuses Clark of "Swiftboating"
Unbelievable. Wesley Clark just destroys the media narrative that being a prisoner of war is somehow the "experience" necessary to be Commander in Chief, much to the dumbfounding of host Bob Schieffer. It's a fantastic appearance--much like this earlier one that Jesse at GroupNews recounts:
The media simply couldn't argue the POINT, which Clark made clear without saying word one directly about them to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, that they have been lazy goof offs who are brutally biased for McCain, against Obama, and are not doing their damn jobs. Or they would already have reported this obviously well-grounded assessment/interpretation about McCain's national security ability -- "Largely Untested and Untried" -- over which Clark was taking them to school. They couldn't argue the actual point. It was that clear, that obvious, that elegant a takedown. In effect, Clark's hit on McCain took out two targets with one shot.
So how does CNN characterize this tête-à-tête? That Wesley Clark was SWIFTBOATING John McCain!
Rick Sanchez's lead-in to his next segment just now on CNN:
"Wesley Clark tried to Swiftboat John McCain today."
I'm liveblogging. He goes on to say:
"It will reverberate for weeks. Wes Clark tried to diss McCain's military record, that his service doesn't qualify him to be president."
Rick Sanchez is mad.
No, not mad...just a huge partisan hack. Now that "swift-boating" has entered the vernacular, let us remember that the original SwiftBoat Veterans for "Truth" were for the most part neither in their hope to take down Kerry's candidacy. Has Wesley Clark in some way made any untrue allegations in saying that being a POW and a non-combat era fighter pilot does not necessarily qualify you for the highest elected office in the land?
Iraq veteran and political activist Rafael Noboa adds his 2 cents here.
Add Sanchez's name to the list.
Clark is doing well here.
He is a war criminal. Please don't forget that.
But George H.W. Bush was a fighter pilot who got shot down.
George W. Bush was a fighter pilot who didn't go into combat, thereby avoiding being shot down.... Certainly, when 7,000 Air Force members died in combat, GWB did not volunteer.
The Right does believe that being a lousy fighter pilot qualifies you for the Presidency.
I'll be glad to see someone other than McBush in the WH this January.
Swiftboat the Hell out of ''em.
Then get rid of the Bush appeasing networks.
There's your reich-wing MSM at work. It's perfectly fine a bash a true war hero when they are a Democrat, but it's reprehensible to talk about McGrampa's failings as a naval avaitor.
Apparently an intelligent discussion of facts are not allowed. Afterall, having had an incurious joker for President these past 7 1/2 years has dumbed down the media as well as the American people.
The only way this nation will wake up and smell the coffee is if we have another four years of strife and warfare. I guarantee that if the dems take the whitehouse and congress come next January, everyone will just start bitching about how bad they are.
Wesley's was a fantastic comment on the complicity of the media in prepetuating a falsehood. One cannot gain experience simply by having worn the uniform or else you could have a galley line cook running on "military command experience". A person who graduates in the BOTTOM 99% of their class and uses their parents' pull to get themselves prime positions that they don't deserve aren't fit to be President. I mean, haven't we done this before?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Presidency is Not a Mercy Fuck.
So the MSM is admitting that "swiftboating" means lying about a person's service in the military?
Questioning how going into a service where killing is the main job of things (even with rules of engagement, the object of war is kill the enemy so he doesn't kill us) qualifies one for the Presidency is not swift-boating. Questioning how someone could get into that job and then go AWOL and never brought to trial according to the UMCJ is also important. Kerry served in Vietnam, whereas Dubya was in violation of the UMCJ. So, conservatives look to con men, liars as heroes. But then what can you expect from a movement that sees Iran as its boogeyman while simultaneously seeing Oliver North as a hero?
Being a drunken, draft dogging member of the Texas Air National Guard does not qualify anyone to be President either.
Wes Clark a war criminal? really. hmmm. And to think he stopped all that killing in Sarajevo and the surrounding areas.
But this isn't the topic. He was right to say McCain getting himself shot down isn't a qualification for being President.
That's not swiftboating. That's the truth. Where were these twits when they DID swiftboat Kerry.(Crickets chirping)(and still chirping to this day)
Rick Sanchez shows his true colors here. But we all knew that.
The fact that Clark was in the military at the same time as McCain, tells me he has a lot of connections that go way back. He has access to the opinions of men who served next to McCain.
Sooner or later. It will come out. The fake outrage is what will be hard to deal with.
I'm not sure I follow a lot of the commentary here. I think the point is that one's experience as a fighter pilot or as a POW do not necessarily prepare one for the role of President of the United States.
I don't see how that is "swiftboating" anyone, nor is it even disrespecting anyone.
MSNBC has their bloomers in a twist over this, this morning too. This is like the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. If you questioned that you were called a traitor. Now if you question McCain's military service they are trying to make that same assertion.
McCain is not beyond criticism and what General Clark said is the truth. Getting shot down in war does not give you a free pass to be president.
I guess we could shrug our shoulders and say Who Cares? The media is comprised of individuals who prostitute any ethics of journalistic integrity for their chance at the gold ring of a network anchor position and they still pander to the bush administration and will continue to do so until they see the wind has changed. Then look for them to switch their position immediately. Can only hope that those in charge next year have a long memory. You could shrug and say who cares, however, since the majority of intellectual middle America (meaning those who can read and have most of their teeth and have moved out of the trailer park) gets their news from the major networks reporting agencies, then this can't be so easily dismissed. It must be fought, and do not expect any help from the media in publicizing the factual background. They are too enthralled with sticking their heads further up. Wesley Clark need to keep speaking out.
You know there is a lot more to being a President than just being a POW and being shot down as General Clark indicated. Many people that served in various other wars can make those same claims. McCain lacks in the other skills necessary to be President. The powers of persuation, judgement, wisdom, steadfastness in his decisions, etc. are what McCain lacks and what the country needs most.
Schieffer's astonished "Really!?" when Clark suggests that getting shot down in a fighter jet is not experience for the presidency is pathetic.
Schieffer is not as bad as most on the tube these days, but jesus that's fricken stupid.
The president is not a mattel action figure. I'll go further. Rescuing babies from a burning building is not experience that helps you be a better president. Leading a team of sled dogs through a blizzard to get the serum through is not presidential experience.
The president is NOT Harrison Ford on Air Force One. He is NOT a bullshit action figure. Get that through your heads, press, and then we won't have to deal with the embarrassing idiocy of a president flying in a fighter jet to a ship just off the shore, wearing a huge codpiece in his pants.
GROW THE FUCK UP, media.
Who the fuck is Rick Sanchez? Anyone who automatically equates military or POW experience with the ability to make intelligent decisions or serve as POTUS, or senator, or rep or mayor is a fool. Just look at Franks, Myers and others and the monumental fuck ups they planned and did not plan for.
One thing I have noticed is McCranky's grandstanding about his military experience every friggin chance he gets.
If the douche bags who murdered thousands of our citizens are all but ignored, and these numbnuts invade Iraq and now are stepping up activities in Iran, what does that tell you about what their real priorities are:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/washington/30tribal.html?_r=1&hp=&adxn...
why don't they refute what he has said with fact rather than just terming it "swift boating." I'm damned mad and I won't take it anymore.
If Clark was "swiftboating" mccain, he would've claimed to be a wingman or a prisoner in close proximity with mccain's "heroics."
That's what the swiftboaters claimed with Kerry, although military documents showed them to be no where in the vicinity, and in some cases within the region but a too great a distance to make the claims they were making. Basically proving them to be liars.
Now other swiftboaters are suing to regain their reputations that they felt was lost by this reichwing propaganda group in 2004.
I didn't see the CNN story, but I did catch Mika Brzezinski over at MSNBC just a few minutes ago. Please put that shameful video up! I was yelling at my TV more than I ever have. Some of these people are just plain retarded. She kept saying that Clarke was attacking his military record, which is FALSE! He praised his service to his country, and merely went on to say that being a POW doesn't give you superior insight on foriegn policy matters. They are trying to turn Clarke into a crazy Rev. Wright type person that Obama needs to distance himself from. The BS is so strong I can't even write anymore!
Rick Sanchez is the dipshit who demonstrated what it feels like to get tasered, and afterwards said "it's hurts!"
Seems like not being a wrong-way mccain, and not being shot down would be a better qualifier.
Geraldo @ 9:
Best comment of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff Boatright
I have never seen you here before, but from your post I'll infer that you are awake with your eyes open, sober and not a republiscum.
McInsane's experience in chasing woman while his wife is home with the kids is probably what his fellow republiscums admire in him, especially the ones that have been caught with their pants down!
pissed off patricia @ 15:
Not to mention McCain signing anti American propaganda.
I'm guessing a lot of vets and present members of the military would agree with what General Clark said. I know my husband who is a vet sure did. He was watching the show yesterday when Clark made his comments. He was livid that Bob Schieffer (sp?) acted so offended by Clark's remarks.
Additionally, since boosh has no real war-time experience, and is additionally a deserter, is the MSM now claiming he's not qualified for office?
I'd say no s**t Sherlock, but not for that reason.
Btw, when you get shot down over enemy territory after bombing civilians, isn't that termed a failure?
I mean the goal is to return to base unscathed.
Am I wrong?
Jeff @ 22:
I just did something I seldom do in the morning. I shut my tv off due to the bs coming from Mika today. I couldn't take it any more and it was making me so fu*king angry.
I'm not fond of Clark's political views for the most part, but he is correct in saying that being locked up in a cell for 5 years doesn't automatically make you presidential material. The reality is that McSame's military career was undistinguished outside of his decision to remain with his comrades as a POW.
MCSame has this personna as a kindly old man who doesn't really have anything bad to say about anyone. Oh yes, he was a war hero as well. He doesn't promore either openly, he allows his staff and supporters to do that. No temper, a former POW, a Crack Navy Pilot. This all needs to be debunked. He needs to be provoked until he shows that infamous temper. We need to see how he would react with his finger on the button. Bring that temper out and say goodbye to any chances of the presidency that he harbors.
And you want a swift boat attack, you're being accused by our wonderful media anyway, then find those who served with him in the service and those who were incarcerated with him in Hanoi, find them and get statements from them. Make the revelations so appealing that the media will pick up on it. And they will do just that, because their mission is not to promote the the truth or what is right (although in this case they will be doing just that), their mission is now and always has been about ratings.
Actually, placing people who are psychologically scarred in charge of the
countrylunatic asylum is ideal. We can finally feel like one big nutty family while we have fun tearing the world a new asshole.Seeing this clip reminds me that I did the right thing in cancelling the cable and giving the teevee the heave ho three years ago. It looked like Shieffer was absolutely dumbfounded at the idea that Gen. Clark doesn't worship at the alter of McRambo's HEROISM. Where the **** were these bampots when Kerry was being dissed? Oh yeah, they were busy helping Shrubya hide his AWOL records...It's Obama vs. McHero/RNC/ProfitMedia
I just watched the video, and laughed at the part where Schieffer is surprised that Clarke doesn't agree that getting shot down in a plane qualifies as experience in national security!
Andrea Mitchell was all aghast over Clark's comments too. She said he had gone too far and this would backfire on the Obama campaign.
First of all this isn't swiftboating, this is simply saying that just because he was shot down doesn't mean that he has what it takes to be president. Just like a policeman shot in the line of duty doesn't necessarily have everything it takes to be president either.
When you look at his resume outside getting shot down he's a minor league George Bush. He got into the academy because of daddy, graduated because of daddy, had a very mediocre military career. Has never shown any interest in or capacity for grasp of issues, and has always slid on the path of least resistance.
This is just another legacy brat that is in position because of careful media manipulation. The biggest difference between bush and Krusty? Krusty is mentally unbalanced.
If McGrampa ever does a "mission accomplished" carrier landing/photo-op, there is a significant chance he'll crash the plane.
(hussien)moondancer @ 38:
He was also a very cooperative POW who frequently and willing submitted the enemy.
Wesley Clark is more of a "War Hero" than McCain will ever be. Clark was wounded in combat and refused to leave his men. And in doing so, won the battle and saved the lives on many of his men.
I could be wrong about this, but doesn't that qualify more as a "War Hero" than someone getting shot down, and signing anti American propaganda?
Mickxotic @ 35:
When the swiftboaters were smacking Kerry, all these stations were showing the swiftboater's ads over and over for free, as they discussed Kerry's story. I dare say they got more free ad time than time they had to pay for.
34 PassedPawn Says: Actually, placing people who are psychologically scarred in charge of the country lunatic asylum is ideal. We can finally feel like one big nutty family while we have fun tearing the world a new asshole.
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCuZ8O1eK3M&feature=related
Hey! I'm a retired firefighter. I was seriously injured in the line of duty. Is it my turn to be POTUS yet? sheesh....
What the HELL?
Getting shot out of the sky doesn't qualify you to be President?
Is Clark inside his mind?
If Wesley Clark wasn't a retired general they'd never get passed a lack of military credentials.
Full press Corporate Media Swiftboating and Clark will never be asked on again.
ok, McCain's war experience may not be needed as a qualification but at least he traveled ---- that has got to count for something. The other guy is planning his first trip to Europe --- so at least you gotta say McCain is better traveled than obama --- whose travel experience is similar to bush's(before he got elected, that is) ---- nada.
The news media is incapable of critical thinking. I suppose these are the same people that booed Ron Paul at the Republican debates.
What F-ing children!
I was really hoping Clarke would be Obama's VP, but now he'll be thrown to the lions for not blindly following McSame's twisted logic.
Clark is right, of course. Being a POW doesn't qualify McCain to be president, no matter how much his captors appreciated his lovely singing voice.
Bush is a pretend fighter pilot. Apparently Sanchez likes those credentials.
Sanchez should stop on air auditions for Fox Nooz.
Wesley Clark is far and away the best VP choice Obama can make! He eliminates any military and foreign policy bullshit the GOPer's are going to try to use, and he graduated first, not last in his class! He's as cool and composed as they come, and he makes the MSM and wingnuts look like the blithering idiots they are! All while keeping an air of composed competence, intelligence, and confidence.
Top of his class Supreme NATO commander on one side, senile fuck-up who can't remember what he said yesterday, on the other.
Douglas @ 48,
Are you serious? My brother in law travels around the world every week on his job. Nice guy, but not the sharpest tool in the shed, and certainly not presidential timber; unless you are a republican!
douglas in oklahoma@48Says:
What are you kidding?
You just make up facts as you go about your day?
The world does not fit your view so you come up with your own reality?
Go look up some facts and try not to panic when you find them. I know it will be a new experience for you.
douglas in oklahoma
Obama has no travel experience? Are you serious? He was traveling overseas even before his 10th birthday.
I don't recall Kerry's attackers acknowledging his heroism or honoring his service as Clark clearly did for McCain. Chickenhawks who mocked Kerry's service without such concern are suddenly coming down with the vapors over the idea of anyone suggesting that combat service or injuries are an unassailable political credential.
Clark:
"I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war".
Just an Old Lady @ 6:
They are paid to dumb down Americans.
Geraldo Says:
" I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: The Presidency is Not a Mercy Fuck."
True words. I can never remember if that's in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
Clark is absolutely right that McBush with his temper is not qualified to shine shoes.
Wesley Clark was gold Sunday morning... makes me proud to be an Arkansan.
He would do more for this country and the world as Secretary of Defense.
Marko@30 says:
"Btw, when you get shot down over enemy territory after bombing civilians, isn’t that termed a failure?
I mean the goal is to return to base unscathed.
Am I wrong?"
Good point, otherwise the Right has to start proclaiming Carter a brilliant tactician for having the helicopters crash in the desert during the failed hostage rescue.
douglas in oklahoma @ 48:
I thought trolls did not wake up before sun down.
Anyhow, first the right talking point was that since Obama lived in South East Asia (Indonesia I believe) that he must obviously be a covert muslim agent. To prove it, the right used all those pics from Obama's trip to Africa where he wore those funny hats that look like turbans, which means he must be indeed a Muslim terrah-ist.
You idiots understand that South East Asia and Africa are not in the US of A, and that it takes a shitload of air miles to get there, right?
Bravo to General Clark for telling the MSM to fcuk off about Forrestal McWetstart Gumps Hero pilot bullshit.
But will it really matter when Johnny makes This Rovian prediction?
"McCain Predicts ‘Underdog’ Win in Final 48 Hours"
The media will chew on this just as they chewed on Senator Obama's campaign finance decision. They feign being all hot and bothered by it, while the rest of the country goes about their business.
pissed off patricia @ 37:
So how would this backfire on Obama? Good Lord, I'm so tired of the MSM taking any criticism of McCain as 'underhanded' or "swiftboating" and try to throw it back at Obama.
Apparently you are not allowed to make a sane, rational truthful comment in this country anymore.
Recent history shows that Veterans have not faired well in presidential elections:
GHW Bush lost to B Clinton
B Dole lost to Clinton
A Gore lost to Bush (with assistance from Florida Governor and SEc of State)
J Kerry lost to Bush (with assistance from Ohio Sec of State-voting records illegally destroyed)
J McCain WILL lose to Obama
I am not sure what to make of it, but it seems that Veteran experience is not an advantage.
"ok, McCain’s war experience may not be needed as a qualification but at least he traveled —- that has got to count for something. The other guy is planning his first trip to Europe — so at least you gotta say McCain is better traveled than obama — whose travel experience is similar to bush’s(before he got elected, that is) —- nada."
Woo-hoo! Since I've traveled to Europe and Central America, that means I'm qualified to be President and Obama isn't!
Then again, I haven't killed people, wrecked U.S. government property, cheated on my wife, and betrayed my country, so I'm not as qualified as McCain.
Because these media hacks have SOOOO much more military experience than Clark. He should listen to them more often.
Diebold everyone, Diebold.
From my perspective as an outsider, I think these kinds of attack on McCain are just as disgusting and abhorrent as I thought the ones on John Kerry were 4 years ago. With democrats and Obama supporters engaging in the same type of "swiftboating" and that is all it is plain and simple, then you place youselves in a position to be considered on a level playing field with the same ones who attacked Kerry, and which all democrats seemed to rally against. There are enough other reasons you can attack McCain on rather than this one. And this appears to be the same type of thing that we saw in the run up to the candidate selection - Obama says one thing but his surrogates go out and claim another while Obama keeps quiet. This is not a new kind of politics at all. This is a dem repeat of a conservative action that everyone I know thought was disgusting. If it wasn't okay to trash John Kerry about his military service then why is it okay for you to trash McCain?
Gretchen @ 65:
Mitchell and Mika said that General Clark is a spokesperson for Obama's campaign so in their opinion anything Clark says reflects on Obama. They were suggesting the Obama campaign should make a public statement refuting what Clark said.
My personal opinion is that Clark was absolutely right to say what he said and it should be said more often. How the fu*k does being shot down in a plane give you presidential experience? The two just do not connect at all.
douglas in oklahoma @ 48:
That's always the first think I look for in a qualified candidate. So let us compare, shall we?
McCain: bottom of his class at USNA, served in SE Asia, took vacations abroad...
Obama: education includes Columbia and Harvard Law, lived in Indonesia as a child...
Wow, this is so close I don't even know how to call it....
/snark off
pissed off patricia @ 37:
I value the political opinion of Andrea Mitchell-Greenspan as much as the opinion of her husband..........not!
Foreigner,
What the right was saying about Kerry were blatant lies. All Clark is saying is that while he honors McCain for his service, being a POW doesn't automatically give him presidential credibility. Clark ISN"T saying McCain is lying about his war record, as the swiftboaters were saying about Kerry.
foreigner @ 70:
In the case with Kerry, the swiftboaters were denying that Kerry won his medals, they accused him of shooting unarmed people in the back and more.
No one is denying Sen. McCain did any of the things he says he did. General Clark simply said what happened to McCain does not give him special credentials to be president.
pissed off patricia @ 71:
Clark is a spokesperson for the Obama campaign? So when did that happen?
How dare they suggest Obama refute those comments! Someone politely tells the truth, with no disrespect, and suddenly its something that needs to be retracted or else?
Something happened and we're not living in America anymore.
Dear foreigner,
The swiftboaters attacked Jiohn Kerry's military service, saying he was anything but honorable. They called him a liar, they practically called him a traitor, etc.
Clark called John McCain a hero, and said everything you've heard about John McCain's service is true and honorable.
He's merely saying that McCain's service does not neccessarily make him experienced in matters of foriegn policy.
The media assumes that we turn to them to find out what we should think. They get us mixed up with the viewers of Fox News.
This whole thing with Clark's comments is much ado about nothing. Clark stated the very most obvious and the media went into defense for McCain. The big question is why?
Matt in Texas @ 67:
I have been to Europe, Canada, and Mexico, and have vacationed twice in Washington DC.
Plus I once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express because the Motel 6 was full.....I can be your VP!
I better see a few "Worst Persons" over this tonight on Olbermann!
Anyone catch that first line of the video?
Bob: "Joe Lieberman said that Barack Obama is simply more ready to be president than Barack Obama."
Gen. Clark: "Well, I think Joe has it exactly backwards here."
I agree. And that's when my nose started bleeding.
Rick Sanchez:
Born July 3,1958 in Guanabacoa,Cuba, migrated to the states in the early '60's! Attended two colleges, never graduating from either college. He's just like Limpbaugh,Hannity, Trace Gallagher, and Boortz all of which are just high school graduates!
No where in his bio does it mentioning becoming a naturalized citizen!
One would think he would be proud of becoming a citizen, and have it listed in his bio at Wikipedia!
Here we go. Man, those nutjobs on the Right are really savvy. They are jumping on this made-up story (that Clark somehow "swiftboated" McCain) in order to justify and begin their own swiftboating of Obama, which is just getting ready to gear up. Then they can say "Well, they started it first!" It's Rove 101.
I just hope Clark doesn't take the bait and go out and apologize, thereby making it appear that was he said *was* some kind of swiftboating.
Gen. Clark did not attack McCains' military record like the Swiftboaters did. All Clark did was question whether being shot down and held as a POW was a reason for him to be qualified to be commander and chief. He has an excellent point, and he should know. Gen. Clark has made decisions on sending troops into battle and when and how to drop bombs, McCain has not done these things. I believe McCain did finish next to last in his class at the Naval Academy. No small fete considering his fathers position at the time. I'm sure he was given every chance to do better and evidently could'nt or didn't. Makes one wonder.
Maldoror @ 10:
The news media is LYING about John McCain by "omission." Have they not failed to report that, while a prisoner in North Vietnam, John McCain did a propaganda video for the North Vietnamese, praising his captors and stating that America was the enemy.
THAT is not swift-boating. it is simply a fact based on reports, tightly held by the US Government.
John Mc Cain finished at the BOTTOM of his class at West Point. 887 out of 994 or something close to that.
He flew 5 jets that crashed. Four of them not war related. Just an inept pilot? Looks that way doesn't it. How many other pilots ruined millions of dollars of military equipment when not in combat and was allowed to continue flying.
His father was an admiral, think that had anything to do with his being allowed to fly at all after his demonstrated incompetance? The only good thing he has demonstrated is his ability to eject from a fighter jet. He had plenty of practice. In all honesty? He should be called "ejection seat Mc Cain". The only question is? Is he better at pulling the ejection seat or pulling the wool over the eyes of the American People?
Mc Cain made 32 or 33 propaganda broadcasts for the North Vietnamese after being captured. I for one would like to listen to them. Anybody have the tapes?
These qualities make him a candidate to be Commander in Chief?
wesley clark is right. he actually served as opposed to enjoying life under the family crest. the press is acting as predicted and defending lying airhead McSame, rather than dealing with his irrational pursuit of all the boosh/chainey/neocon.
it's forcing them to reveal their true colors.
foreigner@70 Says:
From my perspective as an outsider, I think these kinds of attack on McCain are just as disgusting and abhorrent as I thought the ones on John Kerry were 4 years ago. With democrats and Obama supporters engaging in the same type of “swiftboating” and that is all it is plain and simple, then you place youselves in a position to be considered on a level playing field with the same ones who attacked Kerry, and which all democrats seemed to rally against. There are enough other reasons you can attack McCain on rather than this one. And this appears to be the same type of thing that we saw in the run up to the candidate selection - Obama says one thing but his surrogates go out and claim another while Obama keeps quiet. This is not a new kind of politics at all. This is a dem repeat of a conservative action that everyone I know thought was disgusting. If it wasn’t okay to trash John Kerry about his military service then why is it okay for you to trash McCain?
The Swiftboating that was done to Kerry was a little different than Clarks comments. Clark made comments respecting his service and heroism, and gave his opinion. Kerry was accused of lying and war crimes. He was accused of being a traitor for speaking out about the war. It was suggested he was not actually in Vietnam when the combat took place. Similar comments made about Kerry would be one thing, but there was a novel length fictitious novel that was passed off as truth saying what a horrible person he was.
I agree with Clark, that veterans, especially one who went through hell like McCain did, certainly deserve respect. McCain's service should be counted in his "plus" column. Kerry's service was smeared enough that it was used to tar him.
I appreciate the perspectives of foreigners, and really feel that Obama would be a more appropriate representative than the current guy. And no weird back rub attempts.
It's amazing how broad the definition of "swiftboating" becomes when the person in question is a Republican.
Stuff like this is just one more example I can throw in someone's face the next time I hear that worn out canard "Liberal Media".
That may have been true in the 70's, but our media is so Pro-Corporate, and Neo-Conservative that they just make me sick. Liberal Media my ass..
Wesley Clark, from Oct. 2006:
"I live by a simple rule. If you wore the uniform, if you served your nation with honor, and especially if you fought and were wounded in battle, then you have earned the right to be treated with respect.”
“That’s why I am so outraged that the Republican party has systematically attacked the wartime service and patriotism of veterans who are running for office as Democrats. It is despicable — the sign of a party more concerned about hanging onto power by any means possible than with giving veterans the respect they have earned.”
Disgraceful and pathetic. And not smart at all.
89 Catster Says: It’s amazing how broad the definition of “swiftboating” becomes when the person in question is a Republican.
__________________________________________________________
And especially when the questioner's a republican broad.
We got tricked into this war by Generals who might as well have been called Pentagon puppets.
And Sanchez goes after Clark a General that didn't participate in the tricking?
Mad world.
McCain made over 30 tapes for North Viet Nam. He managed to get all of them sealed Forever. We will never be able to hear.
dennis @ 91:
Good thing General Clark gave McCain the respect he deserves, then. Or perhaps you'd like to point out exactly where Gen. Clark disrespected McCain?
Way to prove Clark's point, stupid drooling media fuckbags.
91 dennis
Gen Clark treated his history in the military with respect, but just continues to say that doesn't necessarily qualify him to be the Nations leader.
That's different then trying to turn a heroic rescue of fellow soldiers into an unverified shooting of a kid, who was nothing but, in the back, although he wasn't shot in that area by "witnesses" that weren't in the immediate area, and of shooting oneself to get medals, encouraging repugs to go to their conventions in purple-heart bandaids, thus disparaging our veteran wounded and dead. And this was all in the defense of an AWOL and eventually deserter incumbent.
Why do you hate our veterans?
dennis @ 91:
It is easy for republicans to attack Veterans when few Repugs have made the sacrifice of military service.
By this logic, the only person Obama should consider for VP is the guy Cheney shot in the face.....
Thank you SassySandy!
McCain did indeed get his propaganda tapes made for the North Vietnamese sealed.
Perhaps it is time for the MSM or the American people to ask him to release them?
Let us hear them. We all heard Rev. Wright. What about McCain in his own words?
McCain's service doesn't qualify him to be President. There is no requirement of military service for the office.
I would like to see an analysis on how many Naval Academy grads, who finished at the BOTTOM of their class, were given flight school placement. I suspect McCain's plum placement was due to his father's influence.
We've done 7.5 years of a spoiled, rich, intellectually limited, frat boy, with a father who greased his way. This country cannot withstand another.
To paraphrase Socrates
An unexamined life history is not worth considering for votes.
Alexander Cockburn is not known for understatement.
But he's seldom been shown to simply make up shit.
Check this out.
Bombin' Johnnie's whole "hero" mythos is a LIE.
I don't know how CNN came to this conclusion that Wesely Clark's words tranaslates to 'swifboating'.
What Clark said is true...being a pilot does not qualify someone to be a president,just like being a politician does make one a pilot.
If this criteria is applied, then we have tens of thousands of pilots in this country that can make it to be presidents...but that's not the case, and that's what Wesely Clark was saying...but CNN and other networks tried to make it more than what it is.
This morning on MSNBC, Andrea Mitchell was also making it sound like what Clark said was something horrible about McCain 'the hero',but in fact Clark was responding to Bob Schieffer of CBS that being a pilot does not make you a president.
I Accuse CNN of 'Swiftboating' General Clark
I have a couple of questions.
If McCain was made to make propaganda tapes for the North Vietnamese due to torture?
Should he not remember the horror of being tortured?
AND!
Why is he all for torture now?
My penis is part of my plumbing
But does playing with my penis qualify me to be a plumber?
"I believe McCain did finish next to last in his class at the Naval Academy. "
Bullsh*t!! He was fourth from the bottom. Quit lying about his record!
/snark off
Pooche @ 107:
because he wasn't tortured.
he received his injuries in the crash of his A-4 into a north Vietnamese lake, from the wreckage of which he was saved by North Vietnamese militia men, who pulled him--not gently--from the wreck to save his worthless life. he was treated by NVN doctors without anaesthesia because the North Vietnamese didn't have very much of it and saved it mostly for their own wounded. he later called that torture, and never once thanked th GOOKS for rescuing him.
McCain is a war-pig. Nothing more or less. He's dog-shit...
ysbaddaden @ 97:
McCain spoke out against the Swiftboat Veterans, ysby. That seems to be lost in all this. The Swiftboaters were not politicians, certainly none criticizing Kerry's service were former presidential candidates nor potential VP running mates.
No matter how he says it with 'all due respect', it's obvious what the intention of Clark and the Obama campaign is, and that is a concerted effort to demean McCain's military service. In May, it was Bill Gillespie, another Obama backer in Georgia and a candidate for the House. In the same month, Senator Tom Harkin questioned McCain’s mental state for having willingly served in the military. In April, Jay Rockefeller accused McCain of being more or less a coward for being a military pilot, and again in May the New York Times quoted unnamed Senate colleagues of McCain suggesting that he didn’t understand the Vietnam War because he didn’t fight on the ground and spent most of it lounging around Hanoi in a POW camp.
There've been hundreds of slanderous posts here that have gone way over the line attacking McCain's military service, and you, a military man, have never spoken out against a single one, no matter how awful it was, and there have been many. So please don't ask me why I hate our veterans.
BUT HE FLEW IN A FIGHTER PLANE AND GOT SHOT DOWN!
BUT HE FLEW IN A FIGHTER PLANE AND GOT SHOT DOWN!
BUT HE FLEW IN A FIGHTER PLANE AND GOT SHOT DOWN!
BUT HE FLEW IN A FIGHTER PLANE AND GOT SHOT DOWN!
BUT HE FLEW IN A FIGHTER PLANE AND GOT SHOT DOWN!
BUT HE FLEW IN A FIGHTER PLANE AND GOT SHOT DOWN!
"Wesley Clark, from Oct. 2006:
“I live by a simple rule. If you wore the uniform, if you served your nation with honor, and especially if you fought and were wounded in battle, then you have earned the right to be treated with respect.”
“That’s why I am so outraged that the Republican party has systematically attacked the wartime service and patriotism of veterans who are running for office as Democrats. It is despicable — the sign of a party more concerned about hanging onto power by any means possible than with giving veterans the respect they have earned.”
Disgraceful and pathetic. And not smart at all."
And just WHERE did Clark show McCAin disrespect? He said he honored McCain's service, but said his time as a POW didn't automatically give him the ability to be president.
I know, I know - don't feed the trolls!
Hell...members of McBain own state GOP don't care for him...
Check THIS out!
liberalDAPoJUSTICEmoderation @ 114:
Ummm...might actually WORK better if I post the damn link huh?
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/29/95355/8277/439/543658
Is it friday yet?
What Clark said was NOT "Swiftboating". If he had brought up the TRUTH that John Hussein McCain committed WAAY more TREASONOUS acts against the United States than Barack Obama has (who committed a grand total of NONE), that wouldn't be "Swiftboating" either. McCain DID sign confessions admitting war crimes and made propaganda films for the North Vietnamese. That's a fact,JACK!!!!
"By this logic, the only person Obama should consider for VP is the guy Cheney shot in the face….."
LOL. Thanks, MedfordTim, now I get to spend the next hour or so cleaning the Diet Coke from my keyboard, since it came spewing out of my nose when I read the above.....
The main issue is that none of these wonderful, insightful, observations will ever get asked of the media mouth pieces. We have no voice, it is a one way conversation. That needs to change.
Do you mean CNN Anchor Rick "I should have called a cab" Sanchez?
MIAMI HERALD
February 12, 1991, Tuesday
TEST: SANCHEZ DROVE DRUNK
BYLINE: BY DON VAN NATTA JR
Blood tests reveal that WSVN-Channel 7 television news anchor Rick Sanchez's blood level exceeded Florida intoxication levels when his car struck and critically injured Jeffrey Smuzinick in mid-December 1990; Sanchez insists test's results are mistaken; Smuzinick remains in coma; photo (M)
==========
MIAMI HERALD
February 16, 1991, Saturday
SANCHEZ CHARGED, WILL STAY ON AIR
BYLINE: BY DON VAN NATTA JR
Miami (Fla) WSVN-Channel 7 news anchor Rick Sanchez will maintain regular on-air work schedule, despite recent charge of driving while intoxicated and leaving the scene of an accident; station says it 'stands behind him'; Sanchez declines comment (S)
I admit that I didn't read all 100+ comments, so maybe someone ele remarked on this, but Bob Schieffer's opening comment was that "Barack Obama is simply more ready to be president than Barack Obama." Helloooo, is anybody listening to what he said? I'd have to agree with that.
Pay attention, folks.
It all comes down to McCain flip flopping.
There is a whole lot less flip flopping at a beach resort than McCain's talking points.
I was against torture when they did it to me, although not proven.
I am now for torture because I don't think anyone will find out the truth.
An Average Joe @ 120:
I live in South Fl...that guys a total douchebag.
Just read this....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/us/politics/30swift.html
I am going to the beach now. I am wearing my flip flops until I get to the sand and I will then remove them and walk on the heads of those with their heads buried in the sand. I need to get to the ocean. I feel safe with the MSM lapping at my toes.
Radically Moderate @ 98:
Amen! Now is the time to rerelease the incredible list of Democrat's military service (and decorations) vs. Republican military service. I was amazed how large the Repub chickenhawk list is. No wonder they celebrate true honorable vets like George H. W., BobDole, some others and now McSame. They are few and far between, but the chickenhawks always have lots to say.
I will admit I am not sure where McCain finished in his class. I have heard next to last, fourth from last, 887 out of 994. Anyway, it evidently was somewhere at the Bottom.
So whatever happened to Sanchez re: the drunk driving charges?
Mush as I believe Wes Clark to be a posturing triangulator, preening and peacocking around for a job in the next administration, he does make a good point especially right back in their (Decepticons) faces. It's all BS!
The nonsense about Repubs being exclusively pro-military is a myth propogated post-Vietnam. It just isn't flying anymore, along with the fear factor trick.
You tu quoque doesn't work here.
A blog is not a public site like a TV channel.
It's more akin to speaking within friends.
Here's the oath I took:
I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God.)
In case you've forgotten the freedom of speech is one of the Constitution.
Additionally, when mccain was released from imprisonment wasn't he examined by military doctors to determine the extent of any torture? What were the results? If insufficent, yet documentation exists that he aided and abetted the enemy shouldn't that be examined?
I would push for these examinations and consider Clark's mild and measured.
Dole has a bum right arm due to the war, but the voters didn't consider him as best qualified for the office either.
Anybody got a link to that video of pasty white pudgy college republicans talking up the Iraq occupation, but they had something better to do?
Bob Schieffer could have come back with:
"But McCain graduated from the Naval Academy in Annapolis. Did Obama do that?!? And his ranking out of 899 graduates was 895. Oops . . . nevermind.
Barack Obama is more qualified to be president than Barack Obama?
Fruedian slip, Mr. Schieffer?
The people of San Francisco have put on their ballot a question of whether to name their sewage treatment plant "the George W. Bush Sewage treatment plant".
The irony is bad stuff goes in and good stuff comes out.
Perhaps the intake valves should be named after George W. Bush?
Although it may be off topic, I've also defended the military's need for proper psychological, medical, and economic care against the deserter's attempt to wage a non-declared war on the cheap (too late for that now, he shoulda listened to Paul O'Neal), against guys who try to prove their liberal chops, by just blanket accusing them of being thugs and murders.
It's illogical to the extreme to assume because one hasn't seen something, than it never occurred.
isn't the network that has first dibs on the YoGuva Been Lying tapes?
dennis @ 111:
Hiya Dennis...so you're saying...that no one can question his record, no one can criticize his military service, because why exactly? Because he's republican? Because he's a veteran?
Because he's your party's nominee?
Regardless of the mans past. Presently, he is not qualified to be president. He's not CAPABLE of being president. He constantly changes his position to what he thinks is the most politically expedient. The man has more flip flops than the entire state of Florida.
The last thing the world, and this country needs, is a hot-tempered old man, with a spotty memory, a hair trigger and his finger on the button.
Is 895 out of 899 correct? Well, after living under almost 8 years of stupid, I would like something a little smarter than that.
For the list of Republican military chickenhawks etc. Google: "Republican politician military service" and check on "Who Served" and other sites. I couldn't believe the comparison, in light of GOP claims re. their alignment with the military.
Talking heads "strategize" about not getting busted on their own bullshit
As Politico.com points out, many guests on cable news who are described as "political strategists" are actually nothing of the sort. Apparently, networks don't care about misleading viewers by calling a guest a "strategist" even if they've never strategized about anything in their lives. Politico makes the analogy that the practice is like someone who's not even an astronaut talking about what it was like when they were on the moon.
Who are these faux-strategists? 23/6 has identified some fairly high profile "fake astronauts" appearing on the cable news networks.
I just hate the crap that is going on. Mika cut Clark off last week- so horrified she was that he would question McCain.
I would elect Obama in a heartbeat just because he can string words together in a coordinated sentence.
This is what it comes down to hungering for a president who speaks English.
The BS has hit the fan! McCain's going to give a press conference in response to Clark's remarks and it seems as though every news person is acting like Clark was out of line. I swear to God if Obama denounces Clark or if Clark backs down, I will lose all faith in the democratic party. Where the F*ck are all the sane journalists!!
Bob Schieffer things getting shot down is a qualification for president????
How about deserting your military commitment in Alabama, BOB?
Amazing!!!!
133 Dookiestix Says: Barack Obama is more qualified to be president than Barack Obama?
Fruedian slip, Mr. Schieffer?
____________________________________________________________
Freud was into ladie's lingerie?
Oh Rick of course you served your country When??? Just to let the people know that you speak from experience
Bob: "Most people think, he'll stop off in Iraq - where he hasn't been in two years."
You have to marvel at the rightwing mastery of the pundit class. Bob is literally doing the campaign's work reflexively.
The only trips to Iraq by American politicians have been under unbelievable security such as McCain's stroll through the Bagdad market with flackjacket. I cannot think how anybody can see McCain's Bagdad photo op and hear his description of it and think that qualifies one to make judgements. Quit believing your lyin' eyes.
“It will reverberate for weeks. Wes Clark tried to diss McCain’s military record, that his service doesn’t qualify him to be president.” Rick Sanchez
That's right. It doesn't qualify him to be president. Should it? According to republicans, being a veteran qualifies John McCain but didn't qualify John Kerry, while being a military deserter didn't disqualify George Bush. The fact that republicans and their propaganda puppets are such masters of hypocrisy would be comical if it weren't so pitiful.
McCain as has been documented called his wife the "C" word, and it was not Christian.
His wife commented on his thinning hair in front of others.
"Ejected John"?
He said:
"At least I don't cover my face in makeup like a trollup, you cu*t".
So is the possible future first lady a cu*t?
I noticed that dennis didn't quote any of the republican comments about mccain's violent temper and may've lost his mind in a POW camp during the 2000 primaries. Wasn't there something about his having a black baby as well?
dennis has a selective outrage.
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