McCain calls the Social Security system a 'total disgrace'
By Steve Benen Tuesday Jul 08, 2008 7:10pmIt’s possible John McCain decided he doesn’t really want to be president after all. It’s a tough, demanding job, and maybe McCain came to the conclusion he’s just not up to the task. It seemed like a good idea to him last year, but maybe he bit off more than he could chew. It’s too late for McCain to bow out, but he can ensure his defeat by saying the most breathtakingly dumb things imaginable.
Take Social Security, for example, one of the most popular and successful government programs in American history. McCain recently said he supports privatizing the system. Then he said, he doesn’t want to privatize the system. Then he said he would privatize the system, he just doesn’t want it to be called privatization.
Listening to him talk, it sounded as if John McCain, after more than a quarter-century in Congress, simply didn’t know how the Social Security system works. And this week, McCain proved that he simply doesn’t know how the Social Security system works.
OK, let’s take a deep breath here. Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system. Current workers pay into the system to provide benefits for retirees, and when those workers retire, the next generation will pay their benefits. That’s what Social Security is. That’s how it works. That’s how it’s always worked.
If McCain wants to argue that privatization is a good idea, fine. He’s wrong, but we can have the debate (again). But it appears that McCain is desperately in need of some kind of remedial Government 101 education, because he literally described the Social Security system as a “total disgrace.”
At this point, John McCain is starting to make George W. Bush look like a sophisticated policy wonk.
Now, I know what you’re thinking. Maybe McCain just slipped up. He was tired and said something he didn’t mean to say. This couldn’t possibly reflect his feelings on the Social Security system. He knows he’d lose Florida if it got out that he considers the system a “total disgrace.”
But it’s true. Here’s how he talked about Social Security on Tuesday morning:
“On the privatization of accounts, which you just mentioned, I would like to respond to that. I want young workers to be able to, if they choose, to take part of their own money which is their taxes and put it in an account which has their name on it. Now, that’s a voluntary thing, it’s for younger people, it would not affect any present-day retirees or the system as necessary. So let’s describe it for what it is. They pay their taxes and right now their taxes are going to pay the retirement of present-day retirees. That’s why it’s broken, that’s why we can fix it.” [emphasis added]
It’s breathtaking. As Nick Baumann put it, “McCain is saying, again, that the problem with Social Security is that Social Security is Social Security, instead of something else.”
I know many political debates focus on subjective matters of opinion, but let’s make this abundantly clear: what McCain is saying doesn’t make any sense. It’s complete and total nonsense. The poor man is utterly clueless.
As for what happens next, my reaction was the same as publius’:
…I’m hoping that an intrepid member of the press corps will ask John “Details” McCain a simple question: “You said that the way Social Security has been funded for the past 75 years is a ‘total disgrace.’ In your view, how exactly should it be funded?” And if he starts mumbling about private accounts and market returns, the reporter should follow up by asking how he intends to cover the short-term resulting gap.
Quite right. Keep in mind, however, that McCain made his “total disgrace” comment in a town-hall meeting, with a phalanx of reporters in tow, and not one of them reported on his comments in any way. Literally, zero.
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What's disgraceful is this old fart will go on Social Security and draw paycheques from it, even though he has no need for the money.
By "total disgrace" he means a total waste of perfectly good Soylent Green?
We fix it by removing the cap on earned income. Wasn't that easy.
THIS...from a guy who somehow manages a 100% disability from the Navy, a Senator's salary, who will get a senator's pension AND divorced his wife to marry a billionairess. I'm just sooo impressed.
I think he's doing it on purpose. He's in it to LOSE it.
You heard it here first.
I hope people soon begin seeing this clown for what he is a senile pandering old fool. He will say or do anything to get a vote . I especially love the way every day we must hear how he didn't mean that or his words where taken out of context
Rangerk8 @ 5:
I've been saying it for months. Why else would they pick him?
McCain is sounding more and more like a socialist. Two very socialist countries, Chile and Sweden, have "privitized" social security (privitized while run by social democrats). Why haven't the democrats adopted this socialized concept?
So we get to choose between Jesus McFISAguy, and Old crusty McDouchebag.
I hope i can remember when election day is this year.
Sorry McNugget, but the thing that is a total disgrace at this point is our entire federal government. All branches are just as bad as the other and we are getting fucked by everyone.
As of today America can no longer call itself all the wonderful things we like to call ourselves because we are no longer the same great nation. We need to outlaw ALL republicans and ALL Democrats and put rules in place that nobody who ever held any ties to either of those partys can ever hold office again.
As long as these two parties who have no respect for what it means to be an American are in power, we will never be free.
I think its rather amusing that he doesnt need a dime of it, yet its a total disgrace. What a disingenuous comment.
Of course he wants to privatize it. The payback for his coffers would probably be pretty sweet. Privatization always comes with a special interest.
Are you people idiots? Don't you know there is NO money in Social security? You call that successful?
I'm sure you think there is such a think as a "trust fund". This so called "trust fund" has no money, it's only a book keeping record indication who payed what and who is owed what. SS benefits are payed by income taxes and government debt during the time the benefits are payed (i.e. there is no savings account with massive amounts of money). Whatever is paid into SS is consumed by the government for government programs you people love so much.
Jesus, wake up people!!
How dare you insult McCain this way! He's a veteran!!! Stop disparaging his brave service!!!!!!!
and :-)
{ Collecting McDollars are we? SiteMonitor}
FUCK OBAMA!! HE VOTED FOR IMMUNITY!!!! LOST MY VOTE!!! RALF NADER WILL NOW GET IT AS THIS IS WHAT AMERICA DESERVES!!!
why hasn't crooksandliars posted this yet?
Even if this were true, the media would still be fawning all over him and pretending that he will be the next Pres. Look what they did to Fred Thompson, even when it was obvious that he would rather stay at home as he fell asleep during rallies due to his cancer treatments.
What a buffoon. Not everyone can get their own retirement plan by marrying a beer heiress or living off of the pension accumulated from years of service in the military and/or Congress.
Social Security rescued thousands of elderly from hunger, hurt and want in old age. It's an insurance policy. It has always been paid for by younger workers... but the kicker is that Reagan made the baby boomers pay for the elderly of the day PLUS their own Social Security --- and raised payroll taxes to do it. I remember. McCain doesn't because he's never had to pay into SS.
And how is this policy different from Bush's Social Security wet-dream?
mccain is in total agreement with bush as far as
privitization of the social security system. the public
didn't like the idea in 2005.. so now mccain is trying a word game.....josh explains/exposes this very well
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/42122-tpmtv-mccain-s-social-security-bambo...
"Whatever is paid into SS is consumed by the government for government
programs you people love so much."
Hey Cheezebox: $12 billion a MONTH for Iraq ain't MY program....
McCain is an idiot. All the people that are voting for him are idiots. I have just got to hope the voters will not do what they did for the last two prez races. Barack was not my first or second choice, but I will never vote for a republican.
Just an Old Lady @ 19:
what about those government programs you love so much homeland security,blackwater,halliburton,kbr,oil subsidies,military industrial complex.......
when you have a moment check out the defecit and the government has grown larger under bush...republican
less government philosophy.. that's bullshxt welcome to corporate welfare
cheezebox, Social Security has a yearly surplus. It is in fact successful. It is not bankrupt.
Bankrupt people spend the surplus, but Social Security is sucessful.
There was a clause that the president get to dip into SS only in special case of the country going into war. Even though the Congress has never declared war, Bush has interpret the authorization to remove Saddam Hussein as an act of war.
Obviously McCain hasn't heard anything about the new lock-box technology.
But I agree with you! wake up people, Haliburton just spent all of our SS funds!
I'll bring this up again, & it's still not related to his age: John McCain does not have the capacity to make rational decisions in the course of living an average life. His mind was destroyed by 5 years of torture. I'm not going to call him names because he is deserving of our pity & understanding, he released his medical records awhile ago but it's obvious he never received the mental healthcare he so thoroughly needed & deserved. The care we take of our damaged veterans hasn't gotten much better since he came home from Vietnam.
I don't know why I did not know this, but I learned something new today:
Veteran Affairs
Apr 22, 2008
John McCain gets tax-free disability pension
Sen. John McCain has long said he is in robust health and is strong enough to hike the Grand Canyon, but he also is receiving what his staff Monday termed a "disability pension" from the Navy.
When McCain released his tax return for 2007 on Friday, he separately disclosed that he received a pension of $58,358 that was not listed as income on his return.
On Monday, McCain's staff identified the retirement benefit as a "disability pension" and said that McCain "was retired as disabled because of his limited body movements due to injuries as a POW."
And this billionaire, who has so much property he forgets about his taxes on his LaJolla home, wants to cut our Social Security and Medicare. Unbelievable hypocrisy.
Well, conservatives have a little bit of a problem with Social Security, don't they?
As much as they WANT it to be a "private savings account," it simply isn't and it doesn't make any sense to turn it into one.
Why? Why, my friends? Because, and I know this is weird and difficult to understand but, uh, PRIVATE SAVINGS ACCOUNTS ALREADY EXIST!
I'm no raving libertarian, but it seems to me that there's no particular reason for the government to get into the IRA/401k business. If you want to encourage pre-retirement savings, do what you can to increase limits on deposits to pre-tax savings accounts. That is privatized social security, period.
Now, separately from this capitalist extravaganza, we also have a thing where current young, able-bodied workers pay into a system to provide for the disabled and the elderly as they need it. It's wildly successful, and that's the problem because, not to put to fine a point on it, but, uh, it's socialism.
So, what you have a is a bunch of reliable, elderly, practically single-issue voters demanding that we keep a program in place which conservatives inherently hate.
And that's why conservatives hate America.
Hey Socialist @#8 ! Do you know which corporation is lobbying the hardest to privatized SS? That would be CitiGroup. Do you trust CitiGroup to carefully manage your nest egg? They also lobbied for the deregulation that gave us our "mortgage crisis" which is just another corporate scam.
So - do the trolls show up every day around this time? I'm kinda new here.
Umm, I'm not sure I would call the system a disgrace, but it's clearly not funded properly. The first generation to receive Social Security never paid in, and we've been paying catch-up as the population has continued to grow. You can be against privatization and still recognize that we need to find a more equitable way to run the system.
Danny @ 31:
Remove the cap. No one except the very wealthy, can say that they may need the benefit especially if they become disabled.
Ron @ 32:
My friends I never said that social security was a disgrace.
What I said is that 100 years of tax cuts will pay for it all.
Sure are a lot of Bushtard Trolls out here tonight...
Don't feed them.
What a straight talking blow hard. Lets all not forget that he was one of the Keating Five, who helped swindle retirees out of millions of dollars. He has been in Congress for how long and it is a disgrace.
Oh yea McCain has been making noises like Bush did about linking Soc. Security to the stock market.
Well well....if that was going on now you would see people leaping from tall buildings because it hit them that their screwed with the stock market's numbers more in the red than the black for many months now and with the mortgage crisis, the oil problems, it wont get better for a very long time.
Gee McCain, why dont we just flush our money down the toliet and be down with it. At least we know where its going for sure.
Misty @ 37:
The Bush sewage treatment plant.
But how many Americans know that?
THAT is the problem.
.. oh the ignorant masses ..
Wow. You can practically HEAR the votes flying to the left.
*
Mickxotic @ 30:
Only if they're really, really hard up and/or stupid. They just don't have a lot to blubber about these days. The re-PIG-lics don't have a shred of credibility left. It's almost sad. Almost.
*
The best system in the world that elevated millions of elderly out of poverty and an asshole republican calls it a disgrace. He would rather have had us use the Bush plan and invest in the stock market and lose everything.
Republicans are nothing but liars and thieves who should never be trusted with anything.
What's worse than what McSame was shoveling is the fools who began to clap for this bullshit.
Soc Sec was never a pension plan. It's a guaranteed pay-out insurance plan.
What's the difference? HUGE. If a young couple with kids has an accident and dad is killed, the rest of the family can have a minimum income, even if dad only paid in a few years. If that were a privatized 403B, he wouldn't have put in enough to make any $ for the family.
All this comparison of decades of Soc Sec vs decades of paying into a pension plan till the worker is 65 or 70 is absurd propaganda. Compare what happens to families when things go WRONG, not just when it goes one way.
And of course we are all free to come up with our own 403B plans, whether Soc Sec changes or not.
Resist the propaganda. Soc Sec is not just a pension plan, it's an insurance plan.
OK so mccain and obama are both doing their damndest to lose the election. And they're both trying their damnest to push the country as far right while they are at their little lose contest. So what the hell are WE going to do about this strange situation???
I can't help but wonder what this terrible market would have done to all of our savings if dubya had gotten away with funneling our social security earnings over to his corporate buddies.
The fact that these greedy, lying, bastards run this greedy old bastard tells you everything. McSame is a third crime family administration in the waiting.
These criminal idiots have to say things like this because they've bankrupted our nation and have stolen all the money allocated for Social Security and spent it in Iraq.
I've known ever since I started working 25 years ago that I would never see a freaking dime of my Social Security contributions because of assholes like McInsane.
And moron Amurikcans will never get it. Even when they're being ushered off to the detention centers they still will not believe it. Well morons, believe it. The people that lead you hate you and are going to try to kill you off with any and all methods at their disposal.
All of your rights have been eradicated, and now they are going to absorb every penny of capital you own while they destroy your currency. Then they're going to jail you for rioting in the streets because you're starving to death.
Actually, you still have the right to vent your spleen in a blog's comment section.
For now.
The problems with Social Security started when Ronnie Reagan started using the dollars in the general fund. All problems in this country can be traced back to deregulation and Reagan declaring war on the middle class.
kasinca @ 50:
That's at least partially true. Between Reagan, HW, Clinton, and W there is literally ZERO money left in the Social Security fund because of their nefarious actions. OUR money has been stolen by criminals. The checks that people receive for SS right now is borrowed. The organized criminal Federal Reserve Bank keeps telling the Treasury to print more money. And we can no longer pay the interest on OUR DEBT. Our currency is WORTHLESS! We are burnt toast! Done! Financial collapse is imminent.
constituent @ 18:
I like this plot line. He doesn't seem to have his heart in it. He's in it, but doesn't want to be: he doesn't want to be president. Hence he just says whatever pops into his tired old head.
So much for the senior vote - that would be the millions of baby-boomers ready to retire - Oh, John - you are soooo lame!
Go take a nap!
There is a problem with the social security system. I don't know the exact figures, but when the system was first created there were something like 16 workers paying in for each person drawing money. Today that ratio is extremely low, and as we boomers begin to retire and draw our SS, the fund will deplete rapidly.
Obama is right, remove the cap on the tax. Tax every American's income. I suggest a sliding scale, the more you make, the smaller the percentage. But you pay on what you earn, end of story.
Let's privatize it so we can all invest our future in the stock market.
The good news for Krusty- he solidified his props with the Club flor Growth. The bad news he lost the election.
Steve,
I favor Social Security.
Your headline is quite misleading.
McCain did not call the program a disgrace. He called the financing methodology that's been employed a total disgrace.
Who allowed this methodology? Ronald Reagan, Alan Greenspan, and a number of Congressional representatives, including John McCain.
Since the Reagan era, the government has raided the Social Security trust fund to finance tax cuts for the wealthy. That's the message here.
McCain did not call for the end to Social Security; instead, he said that the financing method must be addressed. McCain, among many others, is responsible for the problem. Hold him accountable for that.
But don't use some half-assed headline to assert something else.
Save Social Security. Start with accuracy. On this blog.
McCain has a way to solve this disgrace. After he "smokes" out them I Rain Eons, he's gonna start sending a pack of smokes a day to seniors.
Mark, on a serious note, I think McCain called the basic financing principle put into place under FDR a disgrace. The raiding of the surplus has nothing to do with paying benefits out of tax receipts, which is what McCain called a disgrace. Raiding the surplus is theft, but then so is the whole finance system of the U.S. government. We'll fix it with the oil from Iraq. Or was it atomic energy that will make electricity too cheap to meter. My memory is a disgrace.
Here's what is wrong with American defense policy. They take my taxes. And they use it to pay the salaries and buy the bullets used in wars being fought right now. I want some of my taxes set aside and invested in future wars. We can pay for present wars by bundling mortgages, giving them investment grade ratings, and let Phil Gramm sell them to his Chinese buddies.
DON'T MISS THIS POST
Steve I hate to differ with you and I'm certainly not endorsing McCain's comments but this is on issue Ron Paul was dead on about it and few heeded his words.
From our Government Accountability Office
Fiscal Stewardship GAO-07-362SP
The federal government’s financial condition and fiscal outlook are worse than many may understand. … Further, as of September 30, 2006, the U.S. government reported that it owed (i.e., liabilities) more than it owned (i.e., assets) by almost $9 trillion. In addition, the present value1 of the federal government’s major reported long-term “fiscal exposures”—liabilities (e.g., debt), contingencies (e.g., insurance), and social insurance and other commitments and promises (e.g., Social Security, Medicare)—rose from $20 trillion to about $50 trillion in the last 6 years.
If you read the report, take a close look at the fine print on Social Security and the US mail and you will discover that they are "off budget items", in other words “officially kept off the books” and does not have to be reported. The GAO refers to current course as being unsustainable.
It’s how politicians get say the economy is doing great and “technically not lie”, try that private sector and see what happens LOL! The government doesn’t have to follow its own rules. Our government has treated our tax dollars and foreign capital with the reverence an irresponsible teenager does when handed their first credit card.
Just this April the GAO updated their long term fiscal outlook (doc GAO-08-317) stating in the first sentence in preface “Our updated simulations continue to illustrate that the long-term fiscal outlook is unsustainable.” Know the truth, Democrat or Republican it won’t matter, this is a problem 30 plus years in the making and now it’s time to pay the piper. Social security is dead and likely Medicare and Medicaid if we like it or not.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08783r.pdf
Lastly if you have a 401K, you may want to do a little research into why ERISA passed into law in 1974 will play a big part in the largest crash in history.
Paul @ 55 ,
Whoa nellie , did I read you right " the more you make the less you pay " , a sliding scale , seems I just read about W Buffet paying 17% , while his sec paid 35 % , bottom line if you make that kind of money you have tax attorneys and shelters , no me I love the sch C , however if you are a wage earner you get fucked without getting kissed .
re: the SSI " pay as you go " ,
Well Ive been paying into this for 43 yrs , so I dont think many snot nose's will be paying my share ( if it still there next year ? ) and if I had choice between SSI and the lottery , I take the lottery hands down .
Socialist @ 8:
Who are you going to trust with your life savings? The US Govt or the next Enron? During the depression, during the S&L Scandal, the LBOs, the Junk Bonds, time and time again private companies have squandered or stolen life savings. Banks close. Companies go under.
The US Govt has NEVER run out of money. Who do you trust? JP Morgan?
Absurd to talk of the "bankruptcy" of Soc Sec. It is the ONLY PROGRAM that actually has a guaranteed revenue stream to cover it years in advance! You can't say that about the military $1 Trillion/year (the figure if you add all the mil programs outside the DoD allocation to the $700B DoD).
Soc Sec will run surpluses for some years yet! What other govt program can say that???
The money will always be there, if we elect legislators support the program, just as it will for stupid wars or any other govt. expenditure.
Can we manage to elect legislators that represent the people who paid in?
You know what we need? A big budget surplus, that's what we need. That way, we could lower taxes and shore up Social Security in order to meet the commitments of the future......oh wait, the Republicans had a budget surplus and the President gave it away so we could make a monthly credit card payment and buy a toaster. Then, when we needed even more money because some "individuals" flew planes into buildings and a field, we had to borrow all sorts of money from China and screw up the GWOT. Then after all the screw-ups by the Chimp-in-charge, the people responsible for oversight give him a free pass. He's got a free pass! Now, some guy who's out of touch on virtually every issue in front of him wants to fix the "disgrace" that is Social Security(?), huh????
The only disgrace here today is the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of the government of the United States.
Sen. Obama is still better than the alternative, that's what I think at the moment, but I'm not about to send any money to him today after the vote in the Senate yesterday.
The financial sector would love to get its’ hands on all the loot that flows into
Social Security, which would not be in the shape it is today if the politicians and the government agencies they control would keep their hands off the receipts. Those that would have us believe that after seventy five years of successful achievement, the only way to fix the S. S. system is to privatize it, are ceding control of taxpayers’ future financial security to the excesses, greed, and poorly regulated ambitions of self- serving interests. The Republicans are not interested in the general welfare of the population. They are interested only in controlling the cash flow, and putting it to their own uses (while skimming a goodly portion off in fees and commissions), or failing that, dismantling the “socially anachronistic” system. Whether McSame believes what he says is irrelevant. He is only doing the bidding of those who support and control him. And if elected, he will do all in his power to repay them.
If being tortured for 5+ years by the North Vietnamese qualifies McCain to be the president then there are more then 250 current and former Gitmo detainees from Afganistan who are qualified to be the next Afgan president. MZ
cheezebox @ 12:
YOU need to do some reading up on how SS works. and on the prognostications for when SS's "trust fund" would be bankrupt. that's decades in the future even if nothing were done to alter how it's funded--which will have to happen as baby-boomers retire. and everybody knows that.
.
Can we manage to elect legislators that represent the people who paid in?
no. you can have Rahm Emmanuel, though.
Someone help me out, doesn't McCain draw Social Security plus Senator pay and some sort of disability?
Does anyone really believe the crap that comes spewing forth everytime McCain speaks? He's so full of it.
SS seems to be the only government service that isn't broken! Why not let McCain get a crack at it after junior failed to do it after his 2004 mandate. HEH.
McCain is 100% disabled and still receives his Senator's pay. How is that possible that he has been breaking the law for years? Is there some sort of government loophole he wrote in there for himself?
How is this possible?
72 VietVet67 Says: Someone help me out, doesn’t McCain draw Social Security plus Senator pay and some sort of disability?
Yes he does.
Good thing SS reform didn't pass in 2004 afrer chimpy's mandate. Othersie, we'd have it going tits up along with CITI when they were bought by the chinese!
How would you like your social security run by China? Or sold in bits and pieces around the world like bad subprime loans?
Sounds like a real speculators wet dream.
mc claim is the “total disgrace”
12 cheezebox
I can't believe how much I have to explain this.
Social Security is not a savings account.
It's more of an insurance.
What we're paying for right now is current retirees, as they did their elders.
When we retire it'll be a succeeding working generation paying for ours.
Additionally, if we were allowed to withdraw what we paid into the system it wouldn't be nearly as large as what is paid out. The government matches and then some.
Money left over in the Social Security accounts can then be used for other programs. It's the law, part of the government not being allowed to profit. Unfortunately, for the last 25 years or so this overrun has been used to help make the deficit appear less severe.
The Repubs hate SS like poison and have since day 1. It represents The New Deal, (Transfer of Wealth! Socialism!) and they aren't repped by an elephant for nothing.
Here's a story:
1930's New York.
Every day for years, a Wall Street swell buys a newspaper from the same stand, looks at the front page and throws it away in disgust.
For Years.
Finally the newsie asks him why he does that and the blue-blood says he's looking for an obituary.
Newsie says, but you never turn to the obit page.
Mr Wall Street says, "The death notice I hope for will be on the front page."
Unfortunately despite everyone saying the social security plan is perfect- its true that there really is no money in the fund because the money that's collected doesn't go or stay there. Its all been spent and the Fed needs to devalue the currency through inflation to pay for all those social security obligations(since raising taxes is a more direct way of stealing money). Look at the stimulus checks, the gov't didn't have the money for that either.
Its ridiculous how some of you are saying 'THE US GOV'T WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF MONEY' - guess what buddy it already has. We've only been borrowing or printing all the money up to this point to finance all of our domestic and foreign spending programs.
On another note, if you like social security- that's fine. But what if I don't like it, and don't want to depend on it for my own retirement? I should be allowed to opt-out if this is a free country afterall. The people who support social security should be free to put more money in to make up for it. I mean you do care about the elderly right?
McCain knows damn well how it works, and more importantly, the people who will be operating him if he becomes president know damn well how it works. They want to destroy SS because they want to destroy all popular confidence in the ability of government to do what the people want it to do. Just as these GOPers and neocons have methodically set out to destroy every successful program and institution in OUR government, so do they also see Social Security as an intolerable success that must be nullified.
To the extent that We the People have faith and confidence in the institutions that we permit our elected representatives to establish on our behalf, so do we also have faith and confidence in ourselves and in our ability to govern ourselves. To the extent that that faith and confidence can be disrupted and undermined, so do we lose confidence in ourselves and our ability to govern ourselves and so do we lose confidence in the institutionsthat we have established for that purpose. And, thereby do we lose faith in democracy. Thereby are the skids greased that facilitate the emergence of a "strong leader" who will so helpfully relieve us of the odious burden of taking care of ourselves and taking care of business. Enter the despots.
They are never going to stop attempting to destroy Social Security, precisely because it works, just as they've done everything they can to destroy the VA and inummerable other similar agencies and programs. Part of the "Social Security is broken" meme is a Big Lie that they deploy and repeat incessantly as part of their agenda to destroy the program. True, they find as anethema the idea of retired Americans not living in need, but their deeper purpose is the subversion and destruction of government that derives its sole authority to exist and operate from the Sovereign Will of the People. So long as some vestige of faith and confidence remains, they are thwarted in theirs dreams of a totalitarian takeover our our country.
Just one more point- people need to stop acting like the Social Security program is completely beneficial for all americans. Low income people(especially those in inner cities), have a lower average lifespan than do higher income people. So essentially, doesn't that mean social security is transferring from the poor to the rich? Since the advent of the social security program, national savings has also dropped dramatically(both from the actual seizure of money through taxes and because of people relying on social security for the future so they spend more of their money at present).
Not that I support Bush's "privatization" of social security- because instead of ACTUAL privatization, his plan is a real beaurocratic and managed mess which would be much worse.
Again I say if you support those programs- that's fine if that's what you believe, but why do you wish to force people(by the barrel of a Gun if they don't pay in), into the program? Doesn't anyone believe that people can decide how to live their lives on their own?
smchris @ 2:
"Soylent Green is people!"
McSame is a nitwit - only goes to show how little he understands how SS works and has worked for the last 70 years.
ysbaddaden @ 79:
By design the SS never runs out of money (most people do not live long enough to recoup all the money they put it, so there will always be money in the fund). The GOP sees the surplus as a "waste" because it is money "doing nothing," and they way they think about it, it belongs to them because FDR took it from their entitled asses.
The thing is that the GOP has tried for decades to make "public" a bad word. But public and socialized mean that those are services that belong to every American, and every citizen has a right to benefit from. I gotta hand it to the GOP marketing guys who are convincing the average American to not only work proactively against their own interest, but to defend to the death the same people who are sucking them dry while laughing all the way to the ban.
Viktor @ 86:
That is the thing I find most shocking. Ever since Raygun, I have seen GOPers telling me how to fix the SS, but once their open their mouths it is clear they have no clue about how SS works.
What I find more appalling is the fact that NO ONE in the M$M did ever point the obvious:
a) What exactly is wrong with SS?
and
b) How can a person who does not understand how SS works propose how to fix it.
Do you just make this stuff up? Your analysis of social security financing has no basis in reality. YOU ARE FLAT OUT LYING. You are either willfully lying, in which case you are dishonest, or are lying out of a sort of stupidity and/or misguided and pathetic desire to fool people into thinking you actually know something, in which case you are a fool.
social security started out as the pensioners plan which entailed selling treasuery notes to cover the future expenses It did so well that the goverment started to transfer SS funds into the general fund and then broke the system
Ponzi Schemes like SS are soooo super awesome! I honestly think we should provide ALL goods and services that way :)
Why the hell are most Ponzi Schemes illegal anyway? It makes no sense to make Ponzi Schemes illegal and then have the excellent super fabulous SS in place. Consistency, people!
What do we want? Ponzi! When do we want it? Yesterday!
I disagree with most things related to this site, but "Details" McCain is about the best nickname I have heard, maybe ever.
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