It's an Anti-Contraception World
By John Amato Tuesday Jul 15, 2008 12:40pmAnd all you ladies just live in it.
In a spectacular act of complicity with the religious right, the Department of Health and Human Services Monday released a proposal that allows any federal grant recipient to obstruct a woman's access to contraception. In order to do this, the Department is attempting to redefine many forms of contraception, the birth control 40% of Americans use, as abortion. Doing so protects extremists under the Weldon and Church amendments. Those laws prohibit federal grant recipients from requiring employees to help provide or refer for abortion services...read on
No matter how many times this is explained to Will Saletan he'll fail to understand, but hopefully we can get the message out to the rest of the population that the "pro-life" movement is adamantly anti-contraception as well.
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Me Im pro choice , however men should not have a say in this till we start having babies .
Don't worry the dems will step up and fight against thi....
Oh wait.. what am I saying?
This is something that feminists have been screaming about for a long time. Now that the right is actually working to make this reality, maybe progressive men will start to take women's reproductive rights more seriously. Because, frankly, women have been going alone in this battle way too long.
If they are against contraception, because the Bible says be "fruitful and multiply" then how can they even justify proposing abstinence to young people?
It is definitely NOT "Pro-Life"...what it is is ANTI-CHOICE!
"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."
-John Kenneth Galbraith
I don't think there's any question about which party is unpalatable and which party is disastrous at this point in history.
Nanny state reich-wingers once again attempting to control the life of others.
They're against contraceptive because they're cretinous ass-backward morons with a personal agenda that includes superstitious misogynist prophecy and a desperate need to breed as many future war victims as fast as possible.
Did I miss anything?
eric @ 4:
That is true. Basically, humans should be getting married at around 15 years old or so and start the baby making.
capnmike @ 5:
It's pro-lie.
eric @ 4:
Or, how can a "pro-life" party also stand for capital punishment? Let's face it, hypocrisy is a wonderful thing.
When a woman becomes pregnant, a parasite is feeding off her body. Abortion is a way to get rid of that parasite before birth. After birth - there is always adoption.
capnmike @ 5:
Bingo
Anti-contraception in case we want to boink our aunties?
Pericles @ 11:
And pro-war, pro-destruction, and pro-torture.
You know that condoms fail 90% of the time say many right wingers...
Really, have you possibly thought about putting it on your pink thing, as opposed to wrapping it around your head and realizing the woman left (happens only 10% of the time.... ladies ?).
Seriously, who are these people in the halls of government nowadays ?
Yuck !
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 15:
They're pro-death and anti-woman.
Let's add to that bill that all the anti-choice people must be compelled to adopt all of the babies and children that are now institutionalized, and all unwanted infants in the future! How could they object? They'd be putting their ideals in action.
eric @ 4:
The Bible does quote be fruitful and multiply to replenish the earth. Well - take a good look at the population explosion. We don't live in biblical times when humanity was scarce. We live in an over-populated society. Are we supposed to fill every square inch of the world with humans?
Its about time people start to call the prolife movement the women-hating movement because that's what it is. It could care less about "life"-- what they care about is keeping women as second class citizens.
Nada @ 17:
And anti-facts, anti-science, anti-reality, anti-civil rights, anti-peace and once you're out of the womb....you're on your own.
Why do they want more people on this planet?
This tiny speck of dust is already crowded to the breaking point.
Do they want to bring on the inevitable Apocalypse of Famine, Wars and Disease?
Models of population growth showed two options 40 years ago -
1) reduce industrial output AND population growth
OR
2) face the inevitable die-off of BILLIONS, the result of starvation, wars and disease.
Looks to me like the Corporatatists have chosen Option #2.
And THEY intend to be the sole survivors in LifeBoat Earth.
Cuz they've done everything imaginable to ramp up industrial production (Americans have a God Given RIGHT to consume) and discourage limiting population growth (for instance refusing $$$ to the UN for programs that include birth control).
I don't think they're just throwing redmeat to their "Christian" base, tho it works that way too.
does this remind anyone of Howard Hughes and how he installed mormons to run all his legal and illegal businesses?
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 21:
And anti-facts, anti-science, anti-reality, anti-civil rights, anti-peace and once you're out of the womb....you're on your own.
After they assign you a dollar value of course.
Have you seen a more repressed, backwards place?
Just when this country can't seem to lose any more of my respect, something like this happens and the bar is set even lower.
Honestly, the US is a complete and total joke. A declining, sinking ship. Keep telling yourself how great you are America....because you're the only one who believes it.
oldtree @ 23:
No. That would be a sensible thing to do. It reminds me more of The Wizard installing flying monkeys to supervise all the government departments of Oz.
On the other hand, if you told me that Bush was saving all his urine in old milk jugs in the basement of the NSI building, THAT would be a Hughes parallel that I could believe.
I’m all for this law, as long as It applies to right wing Christians only. All of us here know that the morons that support this policy know in their heart that the law wouldn’t apply to them if they should ever find themselves in that situation. This ‘do as I say, not as I do’ crap has got to stop.
rain @ 19:
Agreed. By all means, keeping pumping out kids. God knows we have all this open, unused space just waiting to be filled...not to mention an overabundance of natural resources. Yup, just endless supplies of oil, food and fresh water.
I wish there was mandatory contraception for idiots.
Ladies, when you go to vote this November, think on which way you want this country to go. If they can restrict control of your conception, pretty soon they'll criminalize any loss of eggs. The jails will overflow with women who have been accused of having periods.
This is gone on long enough!
It's time for every woman to reclaim the rights to her own body.
And especially to reclaim the right to her own vagina and her uterus!
It's up to you to start shaping the future of humanity by having children from men who's
skills and talents you would like to see in society.
It really is that simple.
And that is the battle.... dealing with men's insufferable patriarchal egos.
"Live as if you have diamonds between your legs!"
19 rain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo9LUjjq1VU
I'll admit that I've become complacent thinking, "What the hell, Bush will be gone in 6 months, what more harm can he do?" And then this shit comes along.
190 ZappaFrank
And if you had a population like New York nationwide could you imagine the strain on the economy it would create? Basic needs not being met.
Of course if you found someone literally freezing death, hungry and sick, you could tell them to get a job and go on your merry way
Unless you find yourself that someone.
Additionally by definition abortion is not murder if it's legal, although it could still be called killing
However, it's more accurate to call it destroying, since most states limit it to the first two trimesters when it's going through its zygote, blastocyst and foetus state.
Even in Judaism they had two standards for defining life one coming from Genesis, "Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul," (Genesis 2:7 KJV) which implies life doesn't start until one is breathing.
And the Jews had what they called the period of quickening, when the little bugger starts breakdancing in the mother's womb. Before that they wouldn't consider abortion murder, but possibly abbrogating the father's right to his property (both wife and potential child).
Dear US Government Brain Trust:
Abortion is legal.
Signed,
The Fricking Duh Patrol
Also, up next, Government outlaws periods.
I was up very late one night watching TV and I was surfing the channels and I stopped on the catholic channel (I'm one) to see what they were talking about. There was this couple on and she had an abortion previous to her marriage and her husband didn't know and she finally admitted to her husband. Well you can guess what they were talking about. But after awhile they were talking about birth control and how it really shouldn't be used. Well that got my interest up. I came to the conclusion that the catholic church was trying to stop any form of birth control. They want it to stop all together. You can see it working now where some pharmacies are not going to sell birth control. What I don't understand is how stupid the right not getting they want to take birth control out of your hands. The church wants it stopped all together because they feel it is a form of abortion. I know many good catholics that use birth control and many priests know that. No church should tell people how many children they should have. The right better watch out watch what you pray for. I am personally not for abortion but I feel everyone has that right to choice. No one knows your situation with home and financial worries.
capnmike @ 5:
Said that for years.
Pro life = kill em in the mideast.
rain @ 19:
Ready for one of those black-background billboards that says:
Yo,
Right! You were fruitful! You multiplied! Enough already! Me dammit already!!
--- God
Additionally, the only thing the Bible has against contraception is the not agreed upon interpretation of the so called "Sin of Onan." Some argue Onan's sin was contraception or birth control (he withdrew early), some say masturbation because he spilled his seed upon the ground, other's say adultery, because he claimed to be following Gods will in boinking a woman not his wife for progeny, and other's claim his sin was disobeying God by not making this other girl pregnant as directed.
But it doesn't.
It is a fact that the entire population of the world could fit into Texas and still have less people per square mile than New York City. There is no population problem in this country.
It's not the land that is the problem...it's the natural resources...clean water, food, etc. And it's only going to get worse.
Eric Almighty @ 29:
Heck, if things keep going in this direction I fully expect to be jailed for NOT bearing a child.
Nada @ 8:
Nope, ya pretty much nailed it to the cross!!
Additionally, I rechecked the subject of the thread: it's about contraception not abortion.
Contraception prevents abortion.
Until a couple of decades into the 20th century many pregnancies ended in still births, dead women, and deaths in childhood.
Wouldn't that make God the ultimate abortionist?
Phil @ 52:
1) No one has been murdered according to your definition. Fact. Abortion is legal. Fact.
3) How do you know? You're making an assumption.
4) So, you do care about money. Liar.
Pharmaceutical contraception is harmful to women.
Pharmaceutical companies have co-opted medical journals from publishing or promoting any studies that expose this.
Medical researchers and practitioners, tied to pharmaceutical control of the health care, are discouraged from pursuing that line of inquiry.
Population control, through contraception is a major policy of the modern era, and has more to do with 'social engineering' that with the rights, health or safety of women.
Many conservatives are not against contraception, there are natural contraceptive methods that are more effective, empowering and ennobling than any artificial methods.
The arguments against artificial contraception make the case that we are handing women over to pharmaceutical companies questionable ethics and practices, and training ourselves (society) to irresponsibility in our personal behavior.
People/Sq Mile is a misleading metric. A person consumes resources, and those resources (food, fuel, clothing,etc.) require some amount of space to be created and transported to the consumer. So NYC has 26,403 people / sq mile - how many sq. miles of farm land and factory floor space are required to provide for each person? How many farms have you seen in midtown lately?
I bet I could get the whole population of the earth to fit in Delaware - too bad no one can breath at that point. But who cares if it helps attempt to prove my flawed position on overpopulation?
Cindy @ 49:
If the next president and Congress voted that one out of every 3 people in this nation were to be murdered simply for the sake of more clean water, more food, more natural resources, would you agree with that? What if that was their argument? Why not, because it is murdering people, that's why you would not agree with that. Another reason to not agree with that is because that takes away 1/3 of all tax dollars flowing into the nation to be used for things like the infrastructure, etc.
The point is that this argument is flawed because not only do more people mean more tax dollars, but it would not justify abortion if it in fact killed babies, which it does.
Phil @ 52:
So, explain how this has effected your life? In other words, fewer people of your generation has effected your life in what way?
Phil,
Abortion is not murder. If a woman does not want to carry a fetus to full term, it is her body and her right to chose not to. No, the fetus doesn't have any rights because it is dependent on the host for survival. Giving that the woman is a living, beathing human being with feelings of her own, her importance trumps the fetuses which is NOT a living breathing human being and cannot even feel pain. Now, for most educated people who believe in the revolutionary idea that women are actual human beings it is a pretty easy concept to grasp. One usually cannot accept this when one thinks women are second class citizens who should be reduced soley to their biological roles.
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 55:
OK, stop w/ the technicalities of the term that I am using, you know exactly what I mean, that they were killed. My point still remains.
I don't know, you're right, but it is possible.
I don't really care about money that much, but that has nothing to do with this argument.
Phil @ 52:
Why would you give up money to stop something someone else does and doesn't effect you at all?
Phil @ 52:
Wow, your logic is... a mess, to say the least. Starting from the bottom, not everybody contributes and some people are more of a burden than a benefit. You're perfectly allowed to say "I don't like abortion as a concept," but these reasons given here? Are bizarre.
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 55:
Phil @ 58:
Phil, a fetus is not a baby. A fetus is not comparable to living, viable human beings. Your argument is the flawed argument.
58 Phil
That's an illogical argument because for any politician to order one to murder one of three people that automatically implies their alive which is not so in the case of gestation,
And two it's no longer a choice if it's ordered.
ysbaddaden @ 54:
God still is the ultimate abortionist; something like 90% of all fertilized ova are washed out of the woman's body without ever implanting in the uterus.
If there were such thing as drive-thru abortion clinics, republicans would be lined up in droves.
signed,
ashamed to be an american
Calling blastocysts, zygotes and foetuses babies is like looking at a pile of wood on the ground and some nails and calling it a house.
Makes me wanna go out and buy me some contraceptives, just for the heck of it. Keep your effin' laws off my body, dammit! And quit coming between me and my doctor!
These
peoplesheep can't get out of office soon enough for me.Makes me wonder, why do the Republicans like the fetuses so much? They can't vote.
Forge @ 68:
Good point, that why I could never understand any of the arguments against RU-486.
It’s an Anti-Contraception World
By: John Amato @ 10:40 AM - PDT
And all you ladies just live in it.
yea... lucky us... and still no viable MALE contraception... wonder why that is...
We were warning everyone that the anti abortion movement isn't just about nixing abortion, even when the morhter's life is at stake - it's about taking away contraceptives for all (not just the un-married)... the first step is wrongly calling some oral contraceptives "abortofactents" (sp) .... and one by one contraceptives will be be taken away, even the condom.
If you want to NOT vote because of FISA, because Clinton didn't win the nod -- or you're going to vote McCain get ready to loose the ability to decide how big your family should be, or whether you should have children at all . . . . or you can just give up sex all together.
Many thought we were kidding, being alarmist or paranoid 20 years ago when we warned about this . . . . . think we are so tin foil hattish now?
Watch for it guys,
The Right to Life federal troopers will soon arrest us for masturbating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ay0hOPN_Oc
The Republicans are the forced birth / force pregnancy, in your panties, in your bedroom, up your ass party.
See this is why republicans like to stay clear of the whole issue
And bugger young alterboys and pages.
Pericles @ 26:
You know when he goes to Europe. etc. he takes a special potty that collects and saves all his urine and crap which is brought back to the US. They do this because they are paranoid that someone will hack into the sewer systems and collect his waste and analize it.
Makes you wonder what they will find.
anybody wanna bet #44, whomsoever he is, won't roll this back, if it gets promulgated and widely spread?
I'll give 9-2 against...
Abortion on demand, without explanation or apology.
Don't like it, don't get one.
Otherwise, none of your fuukin bidness, moron!
It seems simple to me - if you personally think abortion is wrong/immoral/sinning, then lead by example and don't get an abortion. Otherwise, stay out of another woman's business.
And regardless of when you thinks life begins, it's not before the egg gets with the sperm. Contraception is NOT abortion. You can't abort something that hasn't started. To suggest that the two are somehow equivalent is absurd.
Additionally, since this thread is about contraception, something not touched upon is disease control.
But when you boil all the anti-choice, anti-contraception, anti-sex education, anti-funding of groups that might only MENTION birth contol on foreign shores, and even anti-homosexuality (a whole subject in itself) it's clear what this is about is other people wanting
CONTROL
of other people's most private decisions. We had enough of that with the forced sterilization of the retarded and insane in the early 20th century.
My Letter to HHS:
ysbaddaden @ 111:
Yes, you hit it right on the head. It is about control.
And just a quick question to think about- if the government can force you to carry a fetus to term, then whats to stop them from not allowing you to reproduce at all? This happens in every "pro-life" society. Even in our country before Roe. If you give up control over your own autonomy, then anyone in power can do anything to you.
It's sad when a woman has an abortion.
But that's not the real issue.
the "family" has been destroyed by patriarchal rule.
It is a crime to me that all children, any child, is not welcomed with joy and love into a society, village or community.
In one of the oldest ancient Goddess cultures, there was no such thing as an orphan.
Think of that for a moment...
No such thing as an orphan.
Every child always welcome, wanted, and provided for..
And a woman only aborted if there were problems, disease, or some extreme need.
NEVER was a child not wanted or welcomed... until Man took control of a woman's womb.
Time to take back ownership of your own body...
You decide who goes in..... you decide who comes out!
So if a woman has a miscarriage, is that involuntary manslaughter?
Even before Roe v Wade abortion laws were a pastiche across the United States. Some states allowed to varying degrees, some didn't and they were linked to the whims of the electorate and who could buy the most votes.
The more comfortable if they lived in a state where it wasn't allowed could easily go to the state or foreign country where it was allowed. That's when Cousin Susie was sent to foreign boarding schools.
But the poor and less advanted were singularly affected.
So Roe v Wade was built partially on the basis of medical availability and quality (as well as the privacy rights derived from the penumbra rights of the IX amendment as per the prescedent case of Griswold v Connecticut. Interestingly, the Griswold case concerned a Connecticut law against the sale of contraceptives that were challenged by a MARRIED couple.
clytemnestra @ 118:
Your boys listen to Alice Cooper?
[Consider this an open message to all of you who took Phil's bait: The topic here is CONTRACEPTION, and how DHHS would like to classify it as abortion. The topic isn't abortion!!!!!! Apologies to those of you caught up in the mass deletion. Let's get it back on topic, please. Thank you. Site Monitor]
ysbaddaden @ 94:
They'll have to pry my lathered hand from my cold dead ****.
ysbaddaden @ 122:
Well not much, except for "Schools Out" - stupid Republican has little or no clue about rock's history in politics OR that any pop music at any time has been deeply embedded in politics
117 clytemnestra
Well not much, except for “Schools Out” - stupid Republican has little or no clue about rock’s history in politics OR that any pop music at any time has been deeply embedded in politics
Speaking of which
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jggm7VWqhLs
ysbaddaden @ 87:
Yeah, guess he forgot that ... it amazes me at how Republician rockers like Alice Cooper, Kid Rock, etc. are everything that the right wing hates
79 ysbaddaden Says: [Consider this an open message to all of you who took Phil’s bait: The topic here is CONTRACEPTION, and how DHHS would like to classify it as abortion. The topic isn’t abortion!!!!!! Apologies to those of you caught up in the mass deletion. Let’s get it back on topic, please. Thank you. Site Monitor]
You aborted our side-conversation?
I am delighted when the no-choicers are exposed. They have been against contraceptives for many years. And they are going to be the people to choose who lives and dies. Because, the (gag) pro-lifers believe in the death penalty also. So, they should be called the deathers.
That's because navyswan doesn't know what they're talking about. Nothing said here makes any sense.
*
None of this is new - it's been their goal for a very long time. They just think they can get this passed by pushing for it now for some reason.
Don't forget "The Handmaid's Tale"
THIS IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO THESE TROGLODYTES . . .
You can have our contraception when you pry it out of our cold dead hands. And you'll have to get past our husbands to get to our corpses.
*
As I said which got caught up in the mass deletion .. when you make abortion and contractives illegal (because many are being misleadingly and wrongly called abortifactants (which the right wing says an IUD is too)
YOu need to understand what an Abortifacient is and why they are using the term and misleading/mislabeling some oral contraceptives as such. It is the word that HHS is using to redefine 40% of contraceptives.
Becasue HSS and the right is using the word "Abortifacient" I disagree with the site monitor - it is part of this controversy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortifacient
Hormonal contraception refers to birth control methods that act on the hormonal system.
Currently, all hormonal contraceptives are designed for use by women rather than men, though research on a male hormonal contraceptive (“the male Pill”) has been underway for some time.
Hormonal contraceptives may be introduced into the woman’s body in many different ways, among them orally, vaginally, transdermally, or through injections or implants. The oral method was the first and most famous of these; within a few years of its introduction in 1960, "the Pill" became one of the most popular contraceptives in the United States and elsewhere, and it remains so today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormonal_contraception
Once these abortifacient are impossible to get, what contraception method will they next target and what term will they use?
Making abortion and contraception illegal does not effect the rich, who will only go outside the country where it's legal to get them.
So in effect you are making sex only enjoyable for the rich.
and you thought they couldn't take THAT away from the poor
Well this sucks .. I just posted a whole big thing about Abortifacients - what they are and why HHS is using the word ... but it's not up ... hopefully it's in moderation
because I can't redo it ... I have to take son to tae kwon do
years ago, i saw the head of the Pro-Life organization (don't remember his name) on TV actually admit that their ultimate goal was to get rid of birth control pills. oh, he didn't WANT to admit it, but, when pressed, that's what he said.
oh, and, yes....it was a man.
thank god we have such men standing on the sidelines ready, willing and able to make our birth control decisions for us!
ysbaddaden @ 73:
BINGO!!
*
errr...i meant Right to Life.
The next 6 months is going ot be very distructive as the right wing and the Republicans push everything and try and dismantle everything reasoning that they may never have this chance again.
I'm getting my uterus removed and mailing it to the pro-life douchebags.
Jackie @ 75:
Actually, you did bring up a good point, If a country can force you to carry a fetus to term, then they can also force you to terminate the fetus if it is in the best interest of the state, no? Think... Marianas islands and forced abortions there or ... say... China? Ring any bells?
And hey! I thought all these guys are free-marketers... the free market should sort this out, no? no need for government intervention.
Feminist Daily News Wire
July 16, 2008
Bush Proposal Threatens Women's Health
A memo released Tuesday outlines a Bush administration proposal that would drastically limit women's access to abortion and contraception. The rule change would deny federal funding to medical providers who will not hire doctors or nurses that object to abortion. It significantly expands the definition of the procedure.
The proposal radically redefines abortion as "any of the various procedures -- including the prescription and administration of any drug or the performance of any procedure or any other action -- that results in the termination of the life of a human being in utero between conception and natural birth, whether before or after implantation," according to Reuters. This would falsely label several types of birth control, including IUDs, the pill and emergency contraception as abortion.
Hospitals, clinics, researchers, and medical schools would be required to sign "written certifications" to uphold this rule in order to receive funds from the Department of Health and Human Services, reports The New York Times.
"This proposed rule will put women’s access to birth control and the information they need to make health care decisions at risk," said Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood in a written press release. "As a result, women's ability to manage their own health care is at risk of being compromised by politics and ideology."
Media Resources: The New York Times 7/15/2008 via RH Reality Check; Reuters 7/15/2008; Planned Parenthood 7/15/2008
http://feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=11147
Roe v Wade is just the start. Griswold is the real objective. Any Hillary supporters who in a fit of pique, vote for McCain, must not have daughters or granddaughters.
for those who don't know what missmarple (I love agatha too) is referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut
oh and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenstadt_v._Baird
Gretchen @ 42:
Yeah, it has come to that point. I get strange looks when I say I don't want kids, like I've just taken a dump on their carpet or something. Spare me from these nuts who want all women to be "breeders".
If anyone wants to take my birth control pills away, I'd say it's about time to exercise my right to the Second Amendment.
clytemnestra @ 69:
That most of the chimps in the Austin zoo can sue for paternity?
I wonder how many women George Bush got pregnant
and then had to have his family get them a 'hush hush'
abortion?
But they don't want us to have a choice because later
on they'll need our kids to fight, kill and or die in their wars.
It's all part of the class war system. We the masses must
provide these mutants with future cannon fodder and
worker ants.
LibertyLover @ 62:
they are future cannon-fodder for the never-ending wars that the repubs want.
It's "Contraceptive", not "Contraception".
Those Christofascists must think that "sex is the devil!".
Trittydi @ 87:
I am sorry that you are so obtuse as to not "get" my comment earlier. My point, I thought, was pretty clear: If the right wingers think abortion is murder, then wouldn't a miscarriage, by their definition, be involuntary manslaughter? It points out the ludicrousness of their argument.
Reasonstein @ 107:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luobOzreRq4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oehko4X2XZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXc8lxXP59c
http://193.8.230.138/etexts/www/Bible/Song_of_Solomon.html
Forge @ 34:
****coffee spit****
missmarple @ 99:
Yep. I wish more people understood this.
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