Confirmed: Maliki's Timetable Endorsement NOT Lost In Translation
By SilentPatriot Tuesday Jul 22, 2008 11:45am
We already knew that the Maliki "clarification" came only after pressure from the White House & CENTCOM, and that that "clarification" largely just reaffirmed his point that Obama's time frame is more in line with the views of the Iraqi government. We also already knew that the original translation was done by Maliki's official translator, not Der Spiegel. Well, now TNR is reporting that Maliki's office personally reviewed the translation and signed off on it.
But it turns out that Maliki actually got a copy of the interview before it was printed and had the option to make any changes. A writer at Der Spiegel sent us this tidbit of info:
The reason the magazine scores so many high level interviews is that the editors agree to allow the subjects to "authorize" the interviews before they go to press. It wasn't just a slip of the tongue, in other words: Maliki not only endorsed Obama's plans for withdrawing from Iraq, but his office then explicitly approved the endorsement before it was printed. The denials, then, were doubly facetious. Spiegel couldn't say so, though, without revealing its embarrassing authorization policy.
We can all debate Der Spiegel's policy of allowing it's subjects to "authorize" what gets published, but the fact that Maliki enorsed Obama's position is now, unequivocally, beyond dispute.
Just so we're clear, the sovereign government of Iraq explicitly embraces the idea of withdrawing US troops by the end of 2010 -- directly in line with the plan put forth by the so-called "unexperienced" Barack Obama. The only conclusion that can be drawn from the entire episode, besides that Maliki wants US forces out of his country, is that George Bush and John McCain want the opposite, despite any rhetoric to the contrary. It's hard to overstate how monumental a game-changer this all is, but Matthew Yglesias does a pretty good job of summing it up.
[McCain had] spent, several weeks with the main theme of his campaign being, quite literally, to criticize Barack Obama for not having been physically present in Iraq recently. This (of course) got Obama to go to Iraq, thus setting up a dilemma. Either Obama would survey the "progress" in Iraq and change his position, thus making him a flip-flopper, or else he would refuse to change his position, thus making him obstinate and out of touch with reality.
But instead of either of those things happening, Obama went to Iraq and Iraqi leaders said he'd been right all along! That's about as close to "game, set, match" as you get in terms of real world events influencing your political campaign. What's more, given the domestic situation and John McCain's inability to talk about domestic issues persuasively, he can't afford to play for a draw on Iraq.
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Frist
All aboard the McCain express to crazy fail land!
I can hardly wait for the next right wing spin.
if you love and support the troops then bring 'em home, NOW
The biggest terrist in Iraq is Dick Cheney..
tjb @ 3:
Yes! I want to ask when does the sixteen month countdown begin?
Kerry redux "how do you explain this to the last Iraqi to be KILLED by US troops what their loss means", 16 months from now or 16 months from 1-21-09 ?
Does that dude ever smile? NO! He's got Bush's hand up his ass!
Sorry, this is going to be off-topic:
There's an article on Yahoo's home page that says, "Economists think McCain better for Wall Street." which is funny considering Wall Street has performed better for the last 50 years when a Democrat is in the White House.
But, but, but, the Administration said Maliki mis-spoke and he didn't, what a shock!
amygdala blog () has more of the maliki interview. it reinforces and expands on the sound bite.
see "why is iraq calmer?" july 22, 2008
http://amygdalagf.blogspot.com/
McCain is in a pretty tough spot on this one. It absolutely shows that the Republicans are either lying, ignorant, or not listening to the Iraqi government. How long till they start pushing the 'characters' who think the Maliki government isn't good for the Iraqi people to the forefront? I'm thinking it should start happening before the weekend.
this is an iraqi time table.....they want us out
if i remember correctly didn't bush something on
the order if they want us to leave will leave
it's difficult to trust this administration they will
essentially cheat and lie
This scares me because I have to wonder what the administration is going to do to counter it. I hope Malaki has great guards around him at all times.
But is anybody paying attention out there? The right wing lies [spin] will continue while people who have lost their jobs are too busy looking for work and trying to feed their families to hear the news. They barely know who the candidates are. Sad.
I am all for declaring victory, getting the hell out, and letting the Iraqi's figure out their own future course. McCain wont leave until the big hand is on 100years and that what the Iraqis say is what they really mean, only he knows what they really mean.
And to top it all off he hit a trio of perfect 3 pointers....swish........swish..........Soo-wish.
Take that Gramps.
So the woman in the rape joke wants the gorilla out and off. I don't think anyone could have anticipated that.
All this talk about Obama's inexperience in foreign affairs. Just exactly what was George W. Bush's "experience" in foreign affairs before he was elected President?
What's more, if this Administration has experience in foreign affairs, this is the kind of experience this country cannot afford.
Frankly I find Bush's Manichean cowboy view of the world simplistic, and completely out of touch with reality.
We need a new perspective.
Even after the fan has been unplugged it keeps spinning for a while. We will continue to pay for the damage we have done in Iraq and the the damage we have done to our own military and the damage we have done to our standing in the world community for a long time to come. SHIT!!
AndrewK @ 10:
You can just hear the hamsters running in the wheel inside William "The Bloody" Kristol head right now, cant you. We know it wont be Robert "I didn't even see him your honor" Novak wont be writing it, he had a senior momement behind the wheel and hit some 60 yr old guy this morning in DC.
“That’s about as close to “game, set, match” as you get in terms of real world events influencing your political campaign.”
Real world events gets em every time.
pissed off patricia @ 12:
Patricia, why you gotsa do me like this?! I was so happy until you reminded me that they're not above retribution killings... I'm gonna cry now! ;-(
Let's hope that does not happen.
Its all about the oil stupid! We will never leave there without control of it, and the 35 year old soccer mom's are O.K with that. Give me my gas for my SUV to protect MY children in. Its the "mother bear" syndrome. Watched it for years, absolutely hated PTA meetings. had to see all of the "my children are better (and somehow more important) than yours" crap.
On People, I can't call it mother bear syndrome.
Mother bears haven't forgotten the instinct that keeps the bear population down. Mother bears will occasionally even reprimand one cub by hurting it, to serve as an example to the rest of the childer that 'shit like that'll getcha killed'. And mother bears don't drive SUV's, and take only what they can carry. Mother bears? WAAYYY more up the evolutionary scale than soccer-moms.
((but humor aside it's a good point))
If this is true why is McPain so close to Obama in the polling 42%/45% respectively. I can't figur eout why Ole Johnny McPOW hasn't been blown out of the water yet. It is that they're holding out for Divine Intervention for the God-loving, Bible-thumping, Family Values Rethuglicans?
ALEJCARO @ 17:
Bush was already a concubine for the House of Saud.
do you people seriously want more of this
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/46430-mccain-conjures-a-border-between-ira...
All of this would be very compelling if anybody but political junkies were paying attention.
These narratives are too complex to catch the attention of the Tiny American Mind. McCain-War-Hero versus Obama-Weirdo is the one that really resonates.
President McCain. Get used to it.
Clearly, this is yet another bit of evidence that Steve Guttenberg is with the terrorists.
My non-sequitor fu easily defeats your facts and reality-based observations, liberal scum!!! Hahaha! Hahaha! Hahaha!
[WHOOSHWHOOSH! WAAAPIIIISHT!]
Once again, the reich-wing is on the wrong side of yet another issue.
Big Red Will, I can't back this up at all, but I'm extremely skeptical of polling... it's just like voting, but without half of the scrutiny. There's psychological aspects about how to ask the question, where you are doing your 'random' polling, how the answers are interpreted (if they require interpretation, it's a bad sign, too), etc. Don't trust the polls, ever. Even if they are in your opinion's favor. I still think that (again, I can't prove it) somehow the results are being skewed in the polling about Bush's 20-ish%'ers. Somehow I think that number lives on fairydust and lies alone; people only continue to believe it because they continue to see that number, and feel like their faith or what-have-you should put them in the same position. How else can the polls about Congress go lower than the President who started this mess, and who is also responsible for not letting anything decent get through to law when the Congress does something? How can 20-something% roughly still be happy with that, and yet hate Congress more? Nope, FUCK the polling, the more mainstream and accepted poll it is, the more skeptical I am of its answers.
John Doheny @ 27:
You...you are right! [SOB! WEEP!] I will give up right now! And then I will vote for McCain in November so that I can be in the winning side an' I can scream, "SCOREBOARD, MOTHFRAKKER!!!!", in the faces of all my friends and family and passing strangers and babies!
Thanks! I feel so much better now!
wait........rezzz-oh-naaates.....gotta go look that word up now...I'ma so stoopid!
Hm, is it so unusual for serious print news publications to have interviews checked and signed off on by the person interviewed to make sure it accurately reflects what was said? I can understand that not being the case in TV, but in print? Really? I worked for Der Spiegel in New York and later in Hamburg (many years ago, not as a journalist), and never considered that policy to be unusual. It seemed merely a matter of courtesy to me, especially when Der Spiegel really has an excellent reputation and frequent interviews with experts and well-known personalities in a wide variety of fields - and often in different languages of origin, as well. It is not difficult to make a mistake in the transcription from an audio file, which I sometimes have to do in my work as a translator, and which Der Spiegel's staff usually handles - or did at that time, anyway. So I think your statement "We can all debate Der Spiegel’s policy..." is beside the point. I assume bloggers check their work, too, before they post it. So what is the difference? I love C&L, don't get me wrong, but I really disagree with this (admittedly minor) criticism. PS: I live in Germany and would love to be in Berlin tomorrow, but that isn't possible.
OT:
Robert Novak runs down a pedestrian in DC, tries to run for it, gets caught.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11985.html
John Doheny @ 27:
McGrampa is the furthest thing from a war hero.
President Obama....Get use to it
Annoyed Canuck @ 33:
He'll be on faux news tonight claiming this is a librul conspiracy.
I have only two words for McCain, and they are follows:
HA HA!
Right On, Woodstock... I found that a little odd, as well. I'd like to understand that policy better, myself. Does that mean that if the person doesn't sign off on the content, they can still print it as 'unauthorized' and not use direct quotes? Or what? Are the interviewers allowed to disagree if the person interviewed doesn't like, say a gaffe they made in the middle of the interview, and wants it removed? Somehow, I don't think this practice, however you slice it up, really tends to discredit them, so much as show professional courtesy though. Kinda like a big neon sign saying 'just so you can see it coming...'
Big Red Will @ 24:
Is it a CBS poll?
wow. talk about comma splices in my posts! it's too early for me to try to connect so many thoughts coherently. ;P sorry for the choppy reading.
Dr. Hussein Matt @ 35:
Cited for failure to yield to the RIGHT of way, soooooo many ways to take that staement.
For a more in-depth perspective on this, check out my blog today:
[Deleted-Sitemonitor]
Big Red Will @ 24:
Because the MSM is doing everything it's power to keep McGrampa in this race.
I am glad that this story has become more mainstream as it will be important to show that Obama`s foreign policy dwarfs Mc Bush`s.I never doubted the Der Spiegel report because I am half German ancestry and I know how meticulous my German half is.My Irish half wanted to know what such an article was doing in the Spiegel Catalogue.
Dubyah's war was always a disgrace, now it's up to Obama to put in the time table and restore some dignity to this country.
Bush and Maliki agreed in principle last November to sign a Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq by the end of July to set the basis for a US troop presence beyond December this year when the UN mandate runs out.
But discussions appeared to be deadlocked last month amid strong opposition from Iraqi politicians both Sunni and Shiite, with some Shiite leaders denouncing the proposed agreement as "eternal slavery."
Shiite radical leader Moqtada al-Sadr, who has a broad popular base among the Shiite poor in cities across central and southern Iraq, has been particularly outspoken in his demands for a US withdrawal timetable.
Iraqi politicians have not only bristled at the duration of any continuing defence pact with the United States. They have also expressed reservations about how many bases Washington should retain, what powers the US military should continue to hold to detain Iraqi civilians, and what immunity US troops should have from US law.
Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari has said that Washington has agreed to one key demand from Baghdad, the scrapping of immunity from prosecution in Iraq of the tens of thousands of foreign security contractors operating in the country.
Wise_Fool @ 30:
I'm not sure of the poll, it was on MSNBC so it was Rasmussen or some such nonsense. While I am also skeptical of polling and their "random samples", how is it that they still manage to find people who support McCodger? Are they that enamored with seeing headlines like President Yells at Cloud, Complains of Difficulty Chewing Corn in the near future? Statistically speaking, with the whole country snapping back to the center after being pulled to the right for years, how is it that 42% of the people would vote for someone who is exactly like the person receiving 20% approval ratings?! Either polling is f-ed up (yes!) or more people get their news from Faux than anyone thought.
Exactly, Big Red... exactly. I really think that polling is just a putty-knife for public opinion, and if you know how to use it well, you can shape the populace up any way you want, and make them think it was actually what THEY wanted to be and do.
Big Red: Have you noticed how many online polls tend to come out very differently from the traditional polls, only to be attacked as being 'unscientific' and very not serious? It's really not that hard to take a scientific poll.... ask a question. let random people answer it. collect/compile/review the data... publish conclusion.
any schoolboy knows that is in fact the very scientific method. Anyone who would believe that science requires a veil of secrecy and is owned by big business or it's 'non-serious' is bush-whacked.
a couple good gems in this short article...iraqi's don't want
"eternal slavery" why isn't this in the media
http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/33483
A 'shoe in' for 'boots out'
I don't think there's anything wrong with that kind of policy, if you use it sparringly.
I did the same thing a while back and it just blew my editor's mind that I would allow an interview subject to read the story before it went to print.
There were a few corrections and a couple of "I don't think I meant to say that"... All in all, the story came out pretty well. (It was about subject I knew very little about). I didn't sacrifice my integrity or voice (style).
It's that darn librul biased reality!!
We must demand equal time for conservative unreality!!
Fair and Balanced... Dammit!!
Wise_Fool @ 48:
Or they've been taught the Scientific Method as it pertains to (un)intelligent design.
One could argue that online polling is not random as a poll hosted here on our own C&L would provide different results as an identical poll held at Drudge due to the people navigating to the site. While polling in theory is not difficult, getting the "random" sampling across 300million people and several distinct geographic/socio-economic areas with <2000 people cross section is downright impossible. But, until something better comes along polling is what we've got, much like the internal combustion engine and oil.
Now what will be interesting is for Iraq to turn around and accuse Bush & cheney of war crimes and take it to the ICC for prosecution. After all, each Iraqi who was killed in this highely "illegal" occupation could be considered a "war crime". This was all done on the orders of the POTUS and the buck will stop on him.
The reichwing MSM has their panties in a wad every day - running interference between McLame's incoherency and lack of intelligence of material facts (his brain is his own worst enemy) and Obama's incredible popularity abroad. The world is reaching out to Barack Obama and I haven't seen anything like it in my lifetime.
I was young during Kennedy's election but this rivals even that because of the international support and incredible respect they seem to have for him.
The fascist reichwing media will soon find themselves out of a job. They're fascist owned and the people will put them out of business. Newspaper cancellations are at an all-time high with people blocking the MSM channels - and boycotting their advertisers.
Let's face it: The only advertisers (also whores) out there are Big Pharma .I am still waiting for Schering Plough/Merck to announce their latest findings on statin drug therapy (Vytorin: Combo of Zocor and Zetia) which was found to cause cancer of all types in a mere 4 year study. The study was abruptly stopped and their stock fell. Of course, we haven't heard about how these drugs are "actually killing us" on MSM, have we?
It's 5 days since it was released......and counting....
Looking at the world through the sunset in your eyes,
Traveling the train through clear Moroccan skies
Ducks, and pigs, and chickens call,
animal carpet wall to wall
American ladies five-foot tall in blue.
Sweeping cobwebs from the edges of my mind,
Had to get away to see what we could find.
Hope the days that lie ahead
bring us back to where they've led
listen not to what's been said to you.
Wouldn't you know we're riding on the Marrakesh Express.
Wouldn't you know we're riding on the Marrakesh Express,
they're taking me to Marrakesh.
All aboard the train.
All aboard the train.
OF COURSE.... YOU COULD JUST GET IN A HANDBASKET AND TAKE THE STRAIGHT-TALK EXPRESS....
They've also found that NO FEMALE of any age or MALE OVER 60 benefits at all from taking cholesterol drugs. Fascinating, isn't it since the majority of people taking it fall nicely into this category. THEY HAVE FOUND NO CORRELATION BETWEEN LOWERING CHOLESTEROL AND THE LESSENING OF HEART DISEASE & HEART ATTACK.
It's all been a numbers game. If someone asked you if you'd like your numbers lowered (assuming the propaganda about having low numbers was accurate in the first place - which it is not - since they also found that people with higher TC and higher LDL lived longer lives) at the expense of serious health problems (memory loss (notice the rise in dementia in the past 20 years??) and now cancer??). That would be a no brainer.
The drug companies have been on the fascist teet of this country far too long. It's time to "say no" to them as well. And sue their a$$es off if you're taking one of their poison pills.
[I didn't see where cholesterol levels and meds were addressed in this "Confirmed: Maliki’s Timetable Endorsement NOT Lost In Translation" thread. Could we stick a bit closer to the topic addressed in the beginning? Thanks-Sitemonitor]
Bonkers @ 31:
How you got "vote McCain" out of my post is an absolute mystery to me. The thought of McCain as president is horribly depressing to me, and I'm saying that in all earnestness and completely without irony.
I now that's not the preferred method of communication here in smart-ass-internet-land, but there it is.
Could you imagine any of our major newspapers or broadcast propaganda organs showing that much dedication to factual reporting?
When are you all going to understand that this is all nothing but scripted theater? The votes are counted before they are cast.
And the winner is......Israel.
Wise_Fool @ 37:
Well, I don't quite understand why this is an issue at all, tbh. Why would someone not be able to see or have a say in a finished product that he/she was directly involved in? As a translator, I edit my work before I submit it, and I'd also like to know if a client changes anything, especially if it is intended for publication or a website. Bloggers edit their work, I assume, too, so what is the difference? As far as I know - as I said, I worked there over 20 years ago, they normally accepted any revisions the person interviewed made, and why shouldn't they? Der Spiegel is not into "gotcha" games, and analysis is done in the very long, in-depth articles they write and print. The interviews are for information and insight, and are what they are. End of story. I remember an interview Rudolf Augstein, the founder and publisher, did with Henry Kissinger in New York around 1982. The New York Spiegel office was responsible for transcribing the interview (I don't recall if it had to be translated or not), Mr. Kissinger got the final printed version for his ok, and it was teletyped and sent to Hamburg in those pre-fax days. How could it possibly serve anyone's interest, be it Mr. Kissinger's or Der Spiegel 's, or anyone else's for that matter, to print something inaccurate or not signed off on by the person interviewed? It wouldn't. The fact that this type of thing seems to be even questioned is a sad statement about the US media, which I find mostly shockingly superficial. That's why I read the blogs, instead... or go to Der Spiegel. Here is a link to their English online version:
"Der Spiegel... editors agree to allow the subjects to “authorize” the interviews before they go to press."
I like that.
The subject gets a fair chance to correct any misunderstandings, and looses the unfair chance to claim, "I never said that, I was misquoted..."
We get a better interview.
John Doheny @ 57:
I got what you meant, but I am not about to buy into some kind of crybaby surrendering just yet. Frankly, when someone like you keeps basically posting "It's over" I see a repug troll signing in to discourage people.
Am I concerned? With the stakes this high, you bet your ass. Do I think the dying GOP beast is doing everything they can to take Obama down? Oh yes indeedy. Am I certain that failing all of their relentless lying propaganda working they want it to that they will go to plan B and just try to STEAL the election, point some rifles at us and tell us to just eat it? Yeah.
I actually didn't really disagree with the rest of your post, just the last sentence. You want to lie and down and die, go ahead, but try not to drag the rest of us down with you.
Sr. Dan Senor, famous White House spokesperson, says Maliki is pandering to the Iraqi electorate. He's right of course, and in doing so demonstrates the need for the steady hand of the Bush administration to cradle the nascent Iraqi ship of state. Everyone here knows how foolish it is for Mr. Maliki to pander to his own people by giving an interview to a German magazine. Iraqi's do not read English!
Does Maliki read German?
Der Spiegel is after all in German.
But but but Obama won't say the surge is a success.
LOL
Republicans are funny.
Der Spiegel started their English online version in 2004, and it sometimes has different articles than the German one, but the Maliki interview is available in both http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,567006,00.html and http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,566852,00.html. The two interviewers are German,
but educated Germans usually speak very good English, and some Iraqis do, too. A friend of mine here in Germany is Iraqi, married to a German and her English is quite good. Americans sometimes forget how many people have knowledge of or speak other languages besides their own. It's often just a matter of geography. From where I live in central Europe, I can
fly to Italy, Holland, Austria, France, Switzerland, England, and several other countries in an hour or two, longer by rail or car, obviously.
jeff @ 40:
Right on!
SilentPatriot -
Great catch, thanx!
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