Religious right still under the delusion that it's calling the shots
By Steve Benen Tuesday Jul 29, 2008 7:30amFor the first open cycle in a long while, the religious right has had no discernable impact on the presidential race. And yet, the movement continues to believe that it’s powerful enough to start calling the shots when it comes to the Republican ticket, or at a minimum, that the religious right can veto those who fall short of its standards.
In May, the movement let it be known that Florida Gov. Charlie Crist (R) was unacceptable as McCain’s running mate. TV preacher Pat Robertson’s network reported that many “pro-family leaders and activists ... all agree that if John McCain picks Florida Governor Charlie Crist as his running mate, there will be MAJOR dissatisfaction among social conservatives.”
Earlier this month, the religious right said Joe Lieberman was out of the question. “Lieberman’s a great pick for McCain if he doesn’t want to be president,” the Family Research Council’s Tony Perkins said. The Southern Baptist Convention’s Richard Land called a possible Lieberman VP pick “a catastrophe.”
And this week, the movement said Mitt Romney won’t do, either.
Prominent evangelical leaders are warning Sen. John McCain against picking former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney as his running mate, saying their troops will abandon the Republican ticket on Election Day if that happens.
They say Mr. Romney lacks trust on issues such as outlawing abortion and opposing same-sex marriage and because he is a Mormon. Opposition is particularly powerful among those who supported former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee in the Republican presidential primaries earlier this year.
“McCain and Romney would be like oil and water,” said evangelical novelist Tim LaHaye, who supported Mr. Huckabee. “We aren’t against Mormonism, but Romney is not a thoroughgoing evangelical and his flip-flopping on issues is understandable in a liberal state like Massachusetts, but our people won’t understand that.”
The Rev. Rob McCoy, pastor of Calvary Chapel in Thousand Oaks, Calif., who speaks at evangelical events across the country, told The Washington Times, “I will vote for McCain unless he does one thing. You know what that is? If he puts Romney on the ticket as veep.”
This is all terribly foolish.
First, when a guy like Tim LaHaye says, “We aren’t against Mormonism,” it’s not exactly a stretch to think they’re against Mormonism. For many evangelicals, this was a problem during the Republican primaries, and religious right activists haven’t exactly grown more tolerant over the last few months.
Second, this is a largely hollow threat. McCain and his campaign are well aware of the fact that plenty of religious right leaders swore up and down that they’d never support McCain — James Dobson, LaHaye, Phyllis Schlafly, Mat Staver, David Barton, Rick Scarborough, etc. — but they’ve since come around. If McCain picks Romney, he’ll do so assuming that the religious right will remain loyal to the GOP, and he’ll probably be right.
And third, the religious right seems to hold no sway over McCain whatsoever. That these leaders think they have some kind of veto power is absurd. Religious right opposition to McCain was barely a speed bump in January — what makes “prominent evangelical leaders” think they’re in position to call the shots now? What is it, exactly, that these groups have done to gain credibility with the McCain campaign?
McCain & Co. know that these religious right leaders ultimately got behind the Republican campaign in exchange for nothing. McCain largely ignored them, they huffed and puffed, but once the general election campaign began in earnest, the religious right fell in line. If they seriously believe they can block Romney now, by making half-hearted threats, they’re fooling themselves.
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Hey McCain
I dare you to put Romney on the ticket.
Tim LaHaye says, “We aren’t against Mormonism,”
Why not, LaHaye? It's totally contrary to everything Evangelicals believe.
I don't get it, I just don't get it... no, sir, I don't.
Well...they are delusional after all.
The REAL story is that the Democrats are courting the Fundies. Did you read that NYT story last week about that aide to Howard Dead -- YES HOWARD DEAN! -- who is some black female Fundie screaming about "I am ON THE RISE!!!!" and shit like that?
Obama is ACTIVELY courting the Fundies. That's what THIS CRAP is all about.
Watch your back. They've got their knives out.
Luckily for Chalie Crist, finding a beard in florida's easier than finding waterbugs...but the poor baby sacrificed his ALL apparently for naught. With a wife he's not at ALL interested in, he's still not gonna get his national shot....poor baBY
“...but our people won’t understand that.”
As if these meat-heads understand anything.
"We're not against Mormonism" is Seekrit Eeevang'likle Code, of course. Sort of like the "Some of my best friends are black" meme you can still hear from some of the closeted bigots. Or the "I got nuthin' 'gainst gays" line.
Mr. LaHaye's being rather - dare I say it? - presumptuous in his remarks that 'his people' won't understand that Romney's flips on progessive issues were necessary. Why, Timmy? Is it because you think your followers are stupid, or merely just stupid enough for you to lead them?
Great Cthulhu I despise evangelical leaders.
Thus did madness preach
Hmm, let's see, what makes these picks unacceptable:
Crist -- rumored to be a sodomite
Leiberman -- his people killed Christ
Romney -- belongs to Satanic cult
What they seem willing to ignore is that McCain is, as far as anyone can tell, Godless. I actually do think that putting a non-Christian on the ticket might just be too much for them. Remember, these people aren't exactly rational.
But what about the magic underpants? Surely the End of Days wackos can appreciate that bit of mojo?
“McCain and Romney would be like oil and water,” said evangelical novelist Tim LaHaye, who supported Mr. Huckabee. “We aren’t against Mormonism, but Romney is not a thoroughgoing evangelical and his flip-flopping on issues is understandable in a liberal state like Massachusetts, but our people won’t understand that.”
Why? Because "your people" are DELUSIONAL MORONS. It's bad enough when the leading so-called "liberal" candidate backs fascist agendas like the FISA bill just to appease the imperialist douchebags that run the show - Romney's flip-flopping was minor in comparison. He's still a dope and a tool, just like the rest of them, but that "your people" won't understand it simply underlines what a bunch of idiots "your people" are.
Can anyone guess the reason why the Religious Christian Right wouldn't like a Lieberman as VP? Considering how much Holy Joe kisses up to Pastor Hagee, I would think they'd see beyond St. Joe's one glaring disability.
cheese-n-rice!
remind me to go into politics
too bad jesse helms is dead... lahaye musta loved him... or maybe pat robertson... jesus may return soon... he´d be a good pick too...
Wow this must be a tough election for America's Bigots. Jews, Negroes, Mormons, Gays, and Catholics are all running for office. What's a bigot to do??
Personally, I'm just glad to hear Tim Lahaye referred to as an "Evangelical Novelist" rather than some sort of qualified representative of Christianity at large.
Gov Crist was on morning joe this morning and joe asked him about the statement that McCain made about Sen. Obama would rather lose the war and win the election. Joe asked him did he think it was true. Crist said he didn't know how Sen. Obama felt about winning the war. Crist is already cheer leading like a good veep candidate.
As for the religious right, if they weren't bitching and moaning they would get no attention at all. They are trying to create their own importance.
A reason for the decline perhaps is the bad leadership
that Bush and his cronies have provided. The squandered
legacy, the bad judgments and appointments and placing
God before common sense all contribute to the erosion
of goodwill to the Christian right.
I'll not mention the cashiered pastors and failed
congregations and wrong-headed prophecies.
Perhaps, the Christian right and the Republicans will
separate and maybe the right will found its own party
and the Republicans can come back to the real world
where they once stood with pride before the days
of Ronald Reagan--who brought about this mess in
the first place.
The Silent Majority is so finished and the evangelical
fervour of 90s is sputtering out to an ignominious end.
Perhaps--once again--right and reason will prevail.
Grrr....
These people need to STFU. They do not, and have not spoke or spoken for the majority of Christians in today's US, much less the global Corpus Christianum. For a reason I can't fathom, the media panders to these people who are only one short step removed from the brutality of the Middle Eastern movements, and proclaims a small number of Christians who are among the nastiest and most fanatical Christians to be the spokespeople for the 78% percent of the US population that is Christian. These people do not, have not, and will not speak for me. They are anathema to the teachings of Christ, and a cancer upon the body politic. If the US wishes to preserve its secular nature, these people need to be shut out of public discourse the way they have already shut out the religious Left and the antiwar movement. Tim Lahaye is a Christian equivalent of a Wahhabist, and deserves nothing but the treatment the Old Christendom dealt out to heretics, in full, same goes for all self-proclaimed leaders of Christendom who are for themselves, and not for Christ.
It's times like this that I think Constantine I made a big boo-boo, but then I look at the religious alternatives of that particular time and I'm not sure that it could have been that much better in the 4th Century. About the only alternatives that Constantine realistically needed in that era to get a jump on traditional structures, particularly since the methods he used to become Emperor were...less than moral, were Manicheanism and Hellenistic monotheism, or Neoplatonicism, both of which shared the same bad qualities of Christianity for today's time, the former especially representing a particularly nasty road not taken. Anyhow, Protestantism, of the various wings of Christianity today, has been vulnerable to this from the beginning. Perhaps a Romewank is needed.
barkin - jesus might be a great pick, only thing is jesus wouldn't be supporting all these wars and jesus would be a "commie liberal". These ignorant, greedy, fundies wouldn't support him either. They have morphed beyond jesus. All they want is more money, more money and more money.
For us Obama supporters, there is Matthew 25
Religion, like ebola only less pleasant.
Tim Pawlenty is an evangelical. Would he please the holy right?
God damn, religious people are hilarious. It's only a matter of time until they're extremist minorities that everyone snickers at.
hardly surprising.
these are the same people who believe the Earth is flat and the Sun revolves around us,
that women are personal property of men because they were created from one of Adam's
ribs, and that non-caucasian types are suitable only as servants.
perhaps they should consider keeping it to themselves rather than infect the rest of us?
It's interesting that some of those "revered" RW loudmouths think Lieberman would be a disaster and/or a catastrophe. Is that any kind of gratitude after Lieberman has been prostituting his self to curry favor with the likes of Hagee?
Torontonian @ 18:
The reason for the decline is that this has been the Third Great Awakening, and like everything in US history, that Awakening is coming to another cycle of fundamentalism asleep. US history is a cycle, and this Great Awakening in particular was extremely disturbing, particularly that the Christian Right could invent doctrines literally out of thin air, paint them in a whitewash of historical Christian doctrine, and then the Christians in their congregations were so ignorant of the history of the Faith in general, and sometimes their denominations in particular, that they believed them.
Nada @ 21:
That sort of eliminationalist talk should not be acceptable. It wasn't for Hitler, it shouldn't be for someone like you.
None of this would have happened if the gods hadn't abandoned Mt. Olympus and left us mere mortals to fend for ourselves.
My mother is one of the so called 'Christian Warriors'. After bitching about me voting for Kerry in 2004(She thought he was immoral, funny considering she was Catholic) she believed George Bush was going to spread Christianity.(???) Then after 2006, she believed the Democrats would led us to doom. She believed Y2K was when Jesus would come down and deliver us. Now, well if Obama wins, she believes it will be the end. You wonder why these people are so gung-ho for the end of the world?
General_Rennenkampf @ 19:
Don't forget the Gnostics.
Yet incredibly hilarious.
P.D. @ 29:
Does your mother support the adulterer McCain? According to the bible, McCain should be stoned or does that only apply to female adulterers.
I don't care if someone is religious. I just don't like it when they think their religion gives them the right to change things around in my cupboard. They shouldn't be able to write our laws based on their particular religion. From my point of view religion is sort of like a club. Like minded people getting together and sharing their ideas and beliefs.
Christianity - Because the Ultimate Endless Source of the Timeless Universe and Creator of Everything is terribly worried that you might put your pee-pee in the wrong black hole.... whatever...
Cats r Flyfishn @ 32:
It only applies to females. The sky wizard knows that boys will be boys.
Cats r Flyfishn @ 30:
Gnosticism, yes, I know of it, but gnosticism as a whole was more like Scientology today, spreading and insinuating itself into things as radically different as the mainstream Greco-Roman religion, Marcionist and Pauline Christianity, Manichaeism, and some of the more obscure sects of that era. I'm with a lot of people that classical-age religion from 2,000 years ago is ill-adapted to the present-day, and I actually think a better solution might be an increased civil religion in much of the world, adapted to the cultures and languages and all that. Civil religion is much nicer and more pleasant than the barbarities of many other religions.
As a member of the reality-based world, I get pretty sick and tired of religious zealots trying to run the country! When are the deluded religious nutjobs finally going to realize that the republic party has been using them for years. The republics only care about their corporate interests and making money. They don't give two shits about abortion or gay marriage. Zealots, WAKE UP!!!!
Cats r Flyfishn @ 32:
McKeating is stoned? That explains much!
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 35:
That's unfortunately true. The Bible has little to offer feminists of today, which is one reason that religions from 2,000 years ago are ill-adapted to the realities of the 21st Century.
Mick @ 34:
Well....it's not like the older religions prior to Christianity, Judaism and Islam lacked that sort of concern, either. The Old Paganism simply saw it as strange, but no more odd than someone who say, likes Japanese monster movies might be seen today. Judeochrislam introduced an ugly new "innovation" of homophilia becoming worthy of death.
the religious right is like an old tabby cat that's seen better days; flabby, defanged, and constantly pissed off and ill tempered.
sassafra @ 40:
So in other words, the religious right is Grizabella?
Are any of these big name evangelical ministers poor or even middle class? None that I have heard of, so I have to wonder is this about religion or about money? Is this about leading people to god or is it about brainwashing them into giving their money to the church?
Shitt Romney, the phoniest mother fucker in all of politics, would be the perfect choice for Grandpa....the material would be endless.
General_Rennenkampf @ 41:
if the cat fits....
pissed off patricia @ 42:
It's about the money. Some branches of Christianity really mean it, others are just fleecing scams. The big name evangelicals fall into the latter.
sassafra @ 44:
So long as they aren't Macavity.
Clemdog @ 3:
This practically by virtue of being christian evangelicals to begin with.
Romney, the animal abuser, would be a great running mate for McCain. That trashes any chance of carrying MA because they hate him there - but McCain wasn't going to get MA anyway.
*
Why of course she is supporting McCain! What's a good Christian to do? Support a black man who may be Muslim? Actually, my mother is one of the millions who turns to her idiotic beliefs when she has made an err in judgement. Her vote for Bush? He wasn't the Christian I thought he was. McCain's divorce? Everyone makes mistakes. Kind of funny when older people find religion, than cast judgement on those who are younger.
pissed off patricia @ 42:
Oh, it's about money. Make no doubt about it - there is virtually no line between politics and religion. They're both completely about power, money and control. The religion part of it is only a vehicle for same.
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The "Religious Right" may be losing influence with the Pukes, but Obama seems to be making up for it, with his pledges for more 'faith-based' initiatives, his ambivalence about "choice," etc...
General_Rennenkampf
@ comment #36 you state, "I actually think a better solution might be an increased civil religion in much of the world, adapted to the cultures and languages and all that. Civil religion is much nicer and more pleasant than the barbarities of many other religions."
Sounds like another way of saying "Secular Humanism" to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I happen agree - but that's exactly what the evangelicals are fighting. They see it as a threat to their turf. Like Home Depot moving in across the street from a mom and pop hardware store.
Trittydi @ 49:
Religion was invented to rationalize the unequal distribution of resources, back 10,000 years ago. It's been going gang-busters ever since
Trittydi @ 47:
There are rational Christians, you know. Unfortunately, you can't be a good evangelical and be rational. I'm not a good evangelical , and so I'm rational. If you accept the whole hog of evangelicalism, as opposed to merely the chops, you aren't a good ingredient for a First-World democracy. OTOH, if you can read the Bible and become aware that, like the Greco-Roman mainstream used to view the myths, that there's a lot of uncomfortable brutalities and carousings in it, and you can decide that maybe allegorizing it might be better for societies like the US, then someone like me isn't so bad. Someone like Tim Lahaye, OTOH is a dangerous cancer on the body politic, gnawing into its framework to destroy it.
P.D. @ 29:
They don't want anyone having fun if they're not around to make them feel guilty about it.
*
For your religious bemusement:
http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/v/9042818
The evangelicals aren't going to go away, but their very desire for political relevance/prominence reveals a grubby, greedy side to their faith. Christ didn't go chasing after Caesar's title, or seek high office or a religious title - he went among the poor and sick, in humility.
Another problem is that when your platform is based on the dictates of an invisible sky daddy, he tends to support those things you want, and promise vengeance/punishment for those things you don't like/don't want.
We should be asking how a candidate will address the critical issues facing our country, not how they say their prayers (or even whether they say them or not).
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 51:
Now that you mention it, yes, that is what I'm getting at. Unfortunately, the species needs to frogmarch itself forward even in large areas of the First World, much less the Second World or Third World, before such a civil religion has a prayer (pun not intended) of working without fundamentalists of all religions trying to sabotage it.
woody, tokin librul @ 52:
I don't think you can point to civilization as the origin of religion, societies like Indigenous Australians who had no organized states have religion. Now, religion of the sort like Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, or Islam does require an organized state to develop.
LOL. The religious right won't back Lieberman as the Republican Veep, huh. This is what I've been saying all along -- Now that Senator Joe-mentum has gone rogue, no one wants him. I'd actually love to see Lieberman get the VP nomination, if only to see him be even more of a drag on McCain's campaign then he was for Al Gore. Being on the losing ticket for two presidential elections, for BOTH parties? I can't think of anything else that would more permanently clip Lieberman's political wings and send him to the private sector faster than you can say "lobbyist."
It's all total BS. Fundamental Christians will vote the Republican ticket. Period. Abortion! Abortion! Abortion!! That and gay marriage send them over the edge. They will never vote Democratic. So whatever they say, makes no difference. And the GOP knows it. So the party listens to their bluster, files it under ha, ha, ha, and goes about business.
“Lieberman’s a great pick for McCain if he doesn’t want to be president,” the Family Research Council’s Tony Perkins said.
---------------------------------------------------
Ok, I know that statement was made as an order to McCain not to pick Lieberman. But let's pretend McCain actually has a shot at being president regardless of whom he picks.
The statement is above even if the fantasy of McCain being elected were real. Nobody like Lieberman except McCain and I'll bet McCain can't stand him either. He just thinks Lieberman is helping him.
Want to know who Lieberman is? He is John McCain's Dick Cheney.
Romney is a flip-flopper?? So if McT-Rex chooses him, will it be Flip/Flop '08?
ysbaddaden @ 55:
Mmmmmmm. Cheeeesus.
What time do you guys get up?
By the time I saw this thread there were already 50 comments.
Those money hungry fucks will change their mind when Romney tempts them with his fat cash cow. Romney loves to show his wallet and evangelicals love the smell of money...just like Jesus!
ysbaddaden @ 64:
I may be in a different time zone or something. It's almost 9 in the morning where I am.
General_Rennenkampf @ 53:
As a recovering catholic, I have no personal use for religion - but I do know many intelligent and sensible people who consider themselves christians and I have no argument with that. Live and let live. I'm a lot less tolerant of those christians who don't believe in the "... let live" part of it. They don't deserve my respect.
*
Oh that's alright. The religious right made those same kinds of noises about McCain being the nominee too, and we see where they are now. They are just making noise. They will go along, happy or not, because they have no other choice. Their hands would snap off their wrists if they voted for a democrat.
It is truly amazing how many people want us to have a government based on lies and fairytales.
I wonder if we can get McCain to nominate Romney as VP and Liebermann as like, secretary of lying assholes or something so the Evangelicals will stay home.
Let McCain pick Romney! A Mormon who drove across the country in a station wagon with the family dog in a carrier on the roof of the car is a wise choose!
These are people who probably don't follow the Bloomberg financial bulletins, and their experience of a cratering economy may only be the rising cost of cigarettes and beer.
capnmike @ 69:
As opposed to the one we currently have........
capnmike @ 69:
Don't we already have that, though? I mean, Bush's whole Administration has been an attempt to have a fairy-tale Presidency, except that the fairy tale is Animal Farm, not Snow White.
LA@72, I guess I have to give up my vices!
capnmike @ 69:
But they're comforting...The sheeple are distraught, confused, and nervous. It wouldn't take much to set off a fascistic stampede. We should probably encourage MORE of 'em in their delusions, as long as they are more or less kept harmless by big-screen TV, mega-churches, beer and pizza...
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 63:
Reminds me of a joke my father told me.
A boy was walking down a sidewalk with his snack of cheese and crackers. He tripped and dropped them in the mud.
Annoyed, the boy exclaimed, "Jesus Christ, God Almighty!!!"
Looking up he saw his minister looking shocked who asked, "What did you say young man?"
The boy replied, "Cheese and Crackers got all muddy."
E in MD @ 70:
Put LIEberman in charge of Faith Based Initiatives. The jeebus campers would go nuts thinking he'd use the office to try to turn them Jew.
The reason why the for-profit-religious-snake oil salesmen-right wingers are objecting to Crist is because he's a "life long bachelor" (these "rumors" were uncovered by one of his fellow Repugs in the primary for Gov). Can't have that in the benevolent party of Jesus! As for LIEberSellout & Romney...well they pray differently than those quoted above, so they're OBVIOUSLY going to Hell...right?
Image where we'd be if it wasn't for these evil SOBs and the repressive forces of most man-made organized religions? Probably in some Star Trek Utopian future by now I'd guess.
Trittydi @ 67:
I agree with you. Christians like that don't deserve anyone's respect. The same idea goes for Muslims or Buddhists or Shintoists or Hindus or Rastafarians (OTOH, smoking pot for salvation sounds kinda...cool/weird). Humans, period should be able to live and let live.
These nut balls will fall right in line come Nov. no matter who McSame picks for a VP. Repugs learned along time ago how to win elections. Vote in lock step, cheat, steal and rob. Democrats have never learned how to win hell, they can't even get their own house in order. You have all the puma blogs out there doing repugs work for them while repugs rally around McSame.
General_Rennenkampf @ 66:
It is here too. I've been on site off-and-on since 7:20. I musta been on other threads.
I'd like to send all of the rabid Fundies off to meet Jebus, like, right now.
I'm sick and tired of people who sincerely believe in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus
trying to convince me that the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus are REAL.
let 'em believe, I say - but STFU as far as trying to convert others to their little
fantasies.
ysbaddaden @ 64:
We were up for morning prayer.
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ysbaddaden @ 82:
Prob'ly. Good morning, BTW.
Americans turning into Vegetables
The Southern Baptist, evangelicals and the republcan party are ONE-IN-THE-SAME: they feed off each other and BOTH share the reponsibility for the current conditions of this nation. Rest assured those religious hypocrites are bombarding the south with emails calling Senator Obama, "Mulsim"; "anti-christ"; "sworn into office on the Quran". The most recent (we've recieved it 5 different times in 3 days) "attacks the patrotism of the Muslims" and SAYS "THE MARINES WANT THIS EMAIL PASSED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY". McCain condemned these emails last fall, and, Dec 17, 2007 Fox did an aticle acknowleding these emails..."an inability to verify their accuracy". FOX...THEIR NEWS NETWORK! The Conservsative Christain Right passes these LIES ANYHOW while telling our friends (young) grandchildren "you and your family are going to BURN IN HELL for all eternity because your Catholics. (THIS IS PROESSIONAL, GROWN MEN AND WOMEN doing this) and "unless you come to the (Local) FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH to confess, repent your sins, and join our church, then you'll be lost and BURN IN HELL" These groups are out of contro! Let them go to the White House, congreess, the GOP national offices and do some "soul saving". It scares me the power, influence and pompus, condensenting judgemental attitudes/beliefs the christan right and the republican have over this nation. THAT's the reason we've left the republican party after OVER 40 years. THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST and EVANGELICALS are out with a passion this time and they will DO and SAY anything to keep a liberal out of the White House. However, it's okay to be part of a rumor mill of lies, deciet, dshonest when its for the party (which is the voice of the christians...and the christians are the BULL HORNS for the GOP)...its just a "Mis-statement" to lie for their cause. But Catholics who tell the truth brun in hell and its okay for them to scare, terrify and intemidate young children. God save us from these fanatical Pharisee's
Any real reason to believe that they aren't calling the shots?
Afterall, so-called Opposition Party, the Democrats, have caved at every critical issue - even when in the majority, or when able to use the filibuster that the President, or the Republican wing presents them with a chance to rubber-stamp some legislation they want.
then again.....
at what point do you realize that perpetual caving in is just a denial form of saying that they are cooperating - or in some machiavellian method - IN ON IT?
I think the ideal running mate for McCain is Fred Phelps Sr. of Westboro Baptist. He seems to fill the religious right wing agenda perfectly.
Joe Debartolo @ 87:
My friend, here's a word for you to learn: "Paragraphs." Just looking at that, no matter how true it is, caused my eyes to bleed.
Darth Hater @ 79:
Yeah, but we'd all be wearing the same, dorky outfit so no thanks.
I love the empty threats of the so called "leaders" of the religious extremists. Like they're going to vote for Obama if McCain picks the wrong running mate? Get a grip. McCain could pick Hellboy and they still wouldn't switch and vote for Obama.
Here is the dilemma for McCain. The worst that can happen is that a few of the fundies stay home on election day because of his pick. It will be a small crowd because these people tend to be a demographic that votes. Anyone McCain picks who would excite this small group enough to not stay home will be so far right as to scare off an equal number of center-leaning Republicans…so it’s a wash.
The problem the religious right has is that if McCain picks someone they don’t like, and wins anyway, their influence vanishes completely from the halls of politics.
Interestingly, the only play for the religious right would be to not endorse McCain and hope that he loses. Then the fundies can dance around the Republican National Office saying…”see, we tried to tell you…you can’t win without us.”
BTW, my money is now on Charlie Crist. Suddenly I've seen him all over the news channels. I think the McCain camp is doing a test drive to see how he plays across the country. They're hurting in Florida despite that anti-marriage amendment down here...so I think they're going for Crist to shore-up Florida.
Pat Riot @ 83:
I'm convinced that many of these nut-jobs realise( at some level) how silly their fairy tale beliefs really are. That's why they have to force their beliefs on others: so that they won't be the only ones who look like loonies.
For the Religious Right the repub party is the only game in town unless they want to go all "Ralph Nader" on them and basically campaign themselves off into nonexistence.
After the 2004 election a major behind the scenes conservative (I'm sorry I forgot his name but his comment stuck with me) said, "This is the beginning of the end for the Conservative Movement and the Republican Party because it will no longer be possible to keep the various competing and diametrically opposed factions happy under the banner of the republican party."
I think that is what we are witnessing now......... the wheels are starting to come off the wagon.
Trittydi @ 84:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf6wZFMWJeU
Unrepentant Liberal @ 94:
Thank God there's no new Bill Buckley to piece it back together again.
Lily @ 89:
Not Tony Perkins or this guy? He's a self-made man.
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2084/herman4.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=act6JIFZG-M
L.A. Confidential @ 86:
When I eat "Liberty" fries I baptise them by immersion into ketchup.
ysbaddaden @ 98:
Malt vinegar is an accepted baptismal liquid as well.
Ammucchiate....Italian word (femine noun) meaning: 1) orgy: 2) political alliance. The word comes from the verb "ammcchiare" which means "to heap up". The second meaning of the word, i.e. "political alliance", is a derogatory term used to indicate practices used in Italy, by political parties, not to loose party.
Yellow Elephant Safari @ 91:
No shit...didn't you ever see Capt Kirk CONSTANTLY pullin his shirt down...when he wasn't ripping it off that is...
No polyester for this guy, thanks!
General_Rennenkampf @ 27:
LOL!
There isn't a damn good thing about religion. Period.
It's 100% evil and I feel bad for people who need it.
Does the imaginary sky fairy disapprove of my opinion? I'll tell you what, when jebus shows up and spanks me I'll stop saying it, k?
Thanks for the laugh.
liberalMcSuuuurgeNmoderation @ 99:
Only when I have my fish & chips washed down with a pint o' Guiness.
Just no mayo or cheesus.
McCain's running mate must wear a white sheet over his head, then the reich wingers and the Christ-o-fascists of the GOP base will be satisfied.
General_Rennenkampf @ 80:
But these people who have no control over their own lives can't let a day go by without trying to control someone elses.
ysbaddaden @ 103:
what about tartar sauce?
General_Rennenkampf @ 27:
Umm....Hitler didn't outlaw religion he merely used it's trappings of high-church like processions of banners, flags and standards, and making them loyal to the fuhrer and preaching loyalty to the fuhrer much to Diedrich Boenhoffer's dismay.
Growing up I saw something much like it every 4th of July in church.
Nada @ 102:
So, there's absolutely nothing good? It's all black and white?
Wrong, my friend, the world is shades of lighter or darker grey. Religion's got more than enough ills, but the longest-surviving totalitarian movement of the 20th Century was not the religious fascism, but the atheistic Communism. I'd take the theocratic Medieval France over Napoleon's France any day, or the Taoist-Buddhist-Confucianist Qing Dynasty over the atheist PRC of Mao's day. You're correct in that religions from the Classical era are increasingly out-of-date for today's date, which is why a civil religion would work better, one that validates a culture and its unifying principles without the brutality and cruelty associated with the older religions.
liberalMcSuuuurgeNmoderation @ 106:
Mmmm fish 'n' chips!
If you 'baptize' them in vinegar will they feed the multitude? Or do you have to wait for the by one get one special on the weekend? ;)
Ruthless People @ 104:
Him?
http://www.partydomain.co.uk/d-commerce/media/04_24822.jpg
ysbaddaden @ 107:
That's true, but Hitler's hatred of Jews was rooted in no small part from his ultramontaine Catholic upbringing in the Habsburg-era Waldviertel. Besides, referring to what you disagree with as a germ is a hallmark of eliminationalist thinking, usually engaged in by people at the moral level of Bolsheviki or Sturmabelitung. I'm prone to that sort of thinking myself about Tim Lahaye's brand of Christianity, so I know of what I speak.
liberalMcSuuuurgeNmoderation @ 105:
No, they can't, and that sort of religion needs to go the way of the dinosaur. The world has changed drastically in 2,000 years, and we need to find something new to appeal to those instincts, as opposed to religions from the era of the Maurya Dynasty or Constantine.
liberalMcSuuuurgeNmoderation @ 106:
That's how we defeated the Tartars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFydzXFcA-Y
111 General_Rennenkampf
Tim LaHayes annihilationist theology is non-Biblical, yet strangely popular in America.
I really wish all these Fundies would go smite themselves.
If ultramontaine is a form of the Montanist heresy, would ultramontaine Catholicism be an oxymoron?
General_Rennenkampf @ 108:
100% crap. No reason to blah blah blah about it. The world is not black and white. Religion is. It's about maintaining control of people. Sad, misguided superstitious people. You can have all the spirituality you like. Sing and dance and pray. Go nuts. But organized religion is a giant steaming crock of stinking shit. Period.
ysbaddaden @ 113:
He's a John Bircher. What do you expect? Lahaye's a perfect example of proto-fascism, as he's too old to be the leader of the real thing. Lahaye sucks, both figuratively, and probably literally. How this guy's garbage sold as well as it did, considering the writing is absolute crap as well, is also a mystery. Hitler wrote better than he did. Yes, I read Mein Kampf, not out of Nazism, but more out of an idea of understanding how he could write all this hateful shit and nobody take him seriously. But when as godawful a writer as Hitler is better than Ol' Tim, you know something's messed up.
taller ghost walt @ 114:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvVZtiTTvWI&feature=related
BJohnM @ 92:
Well, of course McKeating will pick Charlie Crist. Just add an H and you've got Christ,
for Crist's sake!!
I think it's a supernatural sign that he's meant to be the VP, before he's revealed as the savior, and McPain will emerge from behind that pasty skin and become: ????
Nada @ 116:
Unfortunately, the world doesn't seem to understand yet that 2,000 year-old religions are badly adapted to the present-day. It may require an utter clusterfuck for it to do that. And tell me, do you seriously think that ideology is much of an improvement over religion in terms of maintaining control over people?
ysbaddaden @ 115:
Ultramontaine refers to Catholics who want to jump right back into the Medieval age. The Catholic version, basically, of Al-Sadrism or Bob Jonesism.
Nada @ 116:
SOME religious extremists see the world in B&W...not all, and not the General.
I can agree that organized religion on the whole is a bad thing, but not every one who is religious is an extremist. There are good things about any religion. Just lately, the bad stuff is making the news.
And I'm an agnostic, borderline atheist. And I used to believe it was all crap too.
That being said, I still think religion should have absolutely no say in politics.
pissed off patricia @ 33:
Christianity should be people who are living their ideas and beliefs, not yapping about them. Whenever I see an evangelical going on and on, hoping for one more convert to their credit, I just want to tell them to shut up. If these guys really knew the Scripture they like to quote bits from they would know it tells you to live their lives, not flap your jaws. It tells you to fast and pray in private in a manner that does not draw attention. And it teaches you that money and power are idols that come between a person and God. Yahweh does not care for idols.
If these people were concerned with living by God's laws they wouldn't care about the laws of our country. Nobody is forcing me to get an abortion just because we have a law that says I have a choice. If we allow gay marriage it doesn't bother me either - I'm not gay and no one is forcing me to consider that lifestyle. This is a concept most evangelicals today haven't had time to grasp because they're too busy condemning everyone else.
Even "fundies" can be OK, you know. But then again, my kind is in the minority.
Nada @ 102:
You never heard of the 7 Wonders of the World?:
Great Pyramid of Giza
Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Statue of Zeus at Olympia
Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
Mausoleum of Maussollos at Halicarnassus
Colossus of Rhodes
Lighthouse of Alexandria
Only the 2nd and the last might be considered secular.
Then there's Renaissance art and architecture.
Personally I prefer the sacred hierodules of the Caananite Great Mother.
General_Rennenkampf @ 111:
Well, ya had me until Maurya Dynasty....I know a little about Constantine, but Maurya...nada.
But yeah...those types of religion are archaic at best.
General_Rennenkampf @ 120:
What ideology? The clusterfuck? Is that an ideology? Just asking.
"evangelical novelist"
That's funny
ysbaddaden @ 123:
I prefer "green eggs and ham" It's a lesser known religious text if you're not a seussian.
"God" has ruined mankind for over 5 Millenia.. will this shit ever stop?
All your gods are fucking fake, deal with it.
http://dannymckay.blogspot.com/
Michael Mock @ 16:
Qualified representatives of Christianity are relieved, but qualified novelists are pissed.
Nada @ 125:
No, I'm thinking of things like Marxism or nationalism. Both represent outgrowths of certain ideas already present in their respective catastrophes, and both led to utter clusterfucks. Marxism created the USSR and the early PRC, nationalism the two World Wars. Today's religions are definitely archaic, and adapted to entirely different subsistence frameworks and cultural ideals, but people need to be careful with what takes their place.
liberalMcSuuuurgeNmoderation @ 124:
The Mauryas were an Indian nationalist dynasty that arose and created the first unified India, one of which, Asoka, became the Buddhist Constantine, legalizing the religion and authorizing expansion of it through borders some 500 years before Paul the Apostle.
Well, I have to agree with these religious whackos on one thing...and that's that Romney should NEVER, EVER be allowed in the White House as anything more than a guest!
Romney would be the Talibangelicals' wet dream, actually, as there is no group he wouldn't sell down the river to curry their favor and votes! Likewise, however, if he ever became VP or--God forbid President--you would see a looting of America that would make what Bush did in the past 8 years look really fiscally responsible!
General_Rennenkampf @ 129:
Well I'll be damned...I done larnt me somethin today!
ysbaddaden Says @ 97:
hee hee! Terrorist chest bump at ya!
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/29/article-1022718-01693FA6000005...
On the way home yesterday, some idiot was preaching to a young woman who I couldn't tell was interested or not. I moved to the back of the bus,which had the noise of the moter; I was wearing earpllugs and I could still hear the idiot. It sounded for the most part like personal testimony scattered with Biblical snatches taken out of context. And not quite the snatches I'm interested in.
ysbaddaden @ 133:
Good thing it was you and not me. I probably would have told him to shut up. I have zero patience for these clowns and they're giving the rest of us a bad reputation, even when we've never said a word.
My pastor did just that once on a flight. He actually said "Dude, shut up" to a guy that was 'testifying' to the man seated next to him. The guy got pretty pissed off when he learned a fundie pastor had told him to shut up.
The GOP used the evangelicals and the religious right for years. They paid lip service to abortion and gay rights...all rhetoric, but never did anything at the federal level, bills or legislation, to limit homosexual marriage or abortion. They threw it back at the states and played politics with it. The religious right has no where else to go BUT to the GOP, as they cannot tolerate, nor appear to be accepting of, the diverse groups that make up the DemocraTIC Party.
By playing to these "family values" issues and by waving the flag, the GOP was able to secure all of the religious vote and eek out election after election. Puleeease trolls...don't start. The GOP landslides are due to the electoral map. When you look at the popular vote, particularly at the national level, the GOP barely won and often lost.
McCain HAS to move more to the center because....wait for it...wait for it....average Americans are coming to realize that social programs...what the GOP calls SOCIALISM...benefits them. The center is shifting left again. The average American is becoming more liberal, particularly with regard to jobs and the economy. This is, of course, causing heads to spin with evangelicals and so-called "free marketers".
The Democratic Party made a big mistake by shifting to the right, and trying to become "Republican-lite". It has split the base on their side, and alot of time has been spent shoring up broken fences. THAT is why this race appears to be so close. BUT, at the end of the day, I believe that there is more unity on the democratic side, that the so-called independents will vote their economic interest and thus vote Democratic, and the right wing of the GOP will be neutered.
Trittydi @ 47:
Unfortunately, Mitt Flopney carried MA in the GOP primaries!
127 Nada Says:
I prefer “green eggs and ham” It’s a lesser known religious text if you’re not a seussian.
__________________________________________________________________
Praise Bob!!!
I take it you're not kosher.
Anyone who eats green ham must be eager to meet his maker.
I'm on the make.
I would give all the money I have for him to choose Mike Dumbfuckabee. Talk about shooting fish in a barrel.
Let's try that terrorist chest bump thingy again...
The Religious Right has done more to undermine Christianity in the United States in the past 8 years than decades of teaching evolution in schools was able to do. I hope they're proud of that.
134 Gretchen
I found wondering how they justify their public nuisances of "testifying" with the scriptural injuction, "The lest you do unto your brothers you do unto me." I also wondered if he even ever heard of the Beatitudes (John, Paul George & Irving.)
pissed off patricia @ 33:
Some of the best people I have ever known were deeply religious. They spent their lives helping the less fortunate, and never once did I ever hear one of them judge somebody else. In fact, they often said "that was up to God!"
Interestingly, they were also Democrats, and liberal! And they also did not care fro the way evangelicals (religious right) operated in the name of Jesus!
Lily @ 139:
I do so hope your a terrorist.
Religious right still under the delusion that it’s calling the shots
Maybe if they practiced Safe-Sex they wouldn't need so many shots.
was the religious right ever calling the shots? they seemed more like political puppets than masters
This morning on CNN something was said about how Americans historically do no not vote for the Vice President. That is a candidates running mate is not considered when making a decision on who to vote for. Well considering the eight year nightmare of Cheney/Bush Regime, one should start considering the candidate's running mate into their decision. Darth Cheney has collected unprecedented powers and dangerous precedences in general into the office of the VP. It's bad enough that the office of the President of The United States has taken on an imperial flavor. The Cheney/Bush Regime has been allowed to get with innumerable crimes against Our nation, it's Constitution and even the world. One can only imagine what the next President would do with all that unprecedented, unusual and broad powers that have been collected into the Executive Branch. Am I the only one that notices the present candidates from our two-party system does even speak to this? Our country and the core values of government as set forth by our Constitution are being changed right before our eyes, which of course was the reason behind the installation of Bush Administration. If and when you do vote, and if the election already hasn't been decided, it might serve well to take a long look at who would be the Vice President also.
Today’s Republican Party is a freak show of hate-filled sociopaths, immoral religious and social extremists, insecure, overcompensating, irresponsible, dangerously incompetent, war-mongering imperialists and greedy, exploitive corporate anarchists. Just look at the odious and inadequate carnival barkers and snake oil salesmen the Republican Party had competing to be their presidential candidate. Republicans tacitly welcome homophobes, misogynists, racists, anti-Semites and messianic fundamentalist nut jobs into their party and inherently incorporate their values into their moral fabric and political objectives. Being a child of poverty raised with four younger siblings by a single mom, I’ve never agreed with social conservatives, but compared to Bush’s Republican Party, Eisenhower’s Republican Party was a liberal bastion of social and economic enlightenment and pluralism. Defending the actions of today’s Republican Party is advocating ignorance and evil over common sense and common decency. It would be hard to imagine that any presidential administration, Republican or Democrat, could have been as malicious, polarizing, undemocratic, corrupt or destructively pernicious to the founding causes and defining principles of our republic than George W. Bush’s. I am surprised that I am ashamed for the “good” Republicans, only because I could not have possibly imagined how “bad” some Americans were capable of being.
It was reported when Romney got into the race that his advisors came from the Bush administration. Romney will be the pick because he is the Bush administration's pick for the White House. I firmly believe the neocons of the Bush administration who will rig this election are planning on McCain not making it through a full term in office. Then they get their "boy" Romney in his place. McCain is such an idiot no one could really believe he could make it this far without selling out to the neocon powers that be who control the media. Mark my words, Romney will be the pick. He was always going to be the pick. These people don't care about the religious right, they already know they are the hard core 28% who still support this administration. They are already in the pocket, so Romney as VP choice is not a risk.
the checks in the the mail. he will change his tune when it arrives.
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