Tim Kaine?
By John Amato Tuesday Jul 29, 2008 6:00pm
I told you what I thought about the VP spot already, but can someone tell me what Kaine brings to the table? I realize that many people are releasing information to the press that might not be accurate. Does the country even know who he is? Can he really help in VA? We already have Jim Webb to represent. The fact that he's pro-life should disqualify him right off the bat. And should we even talk about his stance on stem cell research?
Yesterday on WTOP's "Ask the Governor" hour, Governor Kaine said that he opposed using taxpayer money for embryonic stem cell research. Kaine said that he believed "there are huge advances that can be made in adult stem cell research" and that "that's the way to go."
It's fine if he wants a milquetoast pick--that's Obama's choice--but I'd like someone that can actually help the Dems win the election... Evan Bayh is just as boring.
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He brings a bad hair day.
Kaine is a good guy, and is really a legitimately dedicated public servant. But yeah, I don't think he would be a good VP pick. He would, however, deliver Virginia.
Attack Dog = Joe Biden
McCain neutralizer = Chuck Hagel
Liberal wet dream = Russ Feingold or Barbara Boxer
Pick Hillary & win in November. Anybody else &
McCain wins. We are dealing with the goofy
American voter here. Be carefull.
i have never heard of this guy and the impression of
him on last night's niteline was not good. he sounded
whimpy. i will reserve judgement until have learned
more about him. i personally still feel hillary is the
stronger choice for vp, but i would like to actually
know who is on the short list for democratic vp.
I think Hillary would bring every slackjawed Republican voter out of the woodwork. I don't mind Kaine if he can bring Virginia. I just want to win.
NO. No, no, no, no, no. NEXT!
Seriously?!?!?!!? I had never heard of Tim Kaine before last week.
Evan Bayh=Slightly less stupid Dan Quayle clone; corporate / telcom lapdog.
Joe Biden, if only to here him attack John McCain for "a noun, a verb, and The Surge"
obama himself said he's more interested in a governing choice more than someone who can help him win....
I want to win, but a pro-life candidate pisses me off, but what chioce do I have? I'm in Pa. and Senator Casey is pro-life, I was dying to vote for him over the smug Santorum.
Clinton.
EVERYBODY shut up already about a VP choice for either candidate...talk about DESPERATION...how about all media (tv/radio/blogs/print) working on actually doing some factual representations of the information that might just actually help people make wise decisions!!! NAH, better to fill up page after page, hour after hour, blog after blog with inanity that MEANS NOTHING...don't think the candidates are glued to media opining on what/who/why they should make one choice over another...like the RACE FOR THE WH piece of crap on MSNBC (might as well put on another LOCKDOWN in prison)...it's all getting nutty...find a good book and READ...expand your mind (here are two suggestions...THE EDGAR SAWTELLE STORY and THE SISTER and/or any of the new mystery or suspense offerings by fine writers out there! GO FORTH and forget this election until after conventions...
HDon@9. I thought Dan Quayle was going to be on "Dancing with the Stars". How classy!
Dhalgren @ 3:
oh yes, Yes, YEEEES!
seriously, i would kill for Feingold as VP...
I would say Clinton but don't want her to be. When Obama losses then I want her to try again in four years.
My problem is I can't think of anyone (who would take the nomination) who would excite me as Obama's running mate.
Can anyone out there name a genuine liberal/progressive who would both want the nomination and help the ticket?
Time saver: don't bother with Biden, Edwards, Richardson, Clinton, or any of the other usual suspects. If the criteria are 1) genuine liberal/progressive; 2) would accept; and 3) helps ticket, then all of the above (and many, many more) are eliminated.
Dancer @ 14:
Relax Francis.
No Stem Cell.............Fuck em!
Bud @ 17:
really?
I live in Norfolk, VA. Tim Kaine has been a very popular governor for the state, and would certainly help swing the state Obama's way.
But the reason Obama is likely to pick him is one that you shouldn't overlook or undervalue. As Jed Bartlett put it concerning why he insisted on his VP on The West Wing, "Because I could die."
Tim Kaine and Obama have had a great relationship. Kaine was one of the first to endorse Obama. Their backgrounds are very similar, both having grown up in the same area of Kansas, both Harvard grads. They are very much simpatico when it comes to their approach to politics, finding ways to work with opposition without caving, and they share an eagerness to express their faith without trying to steamroll those of differing religious views.
It's important for Obama to pick a running mate who he truly trusts and respects, which is why Tim Kaine is the most likely choice (and Hillary Clinton the least likely).
Rachel Maddow has been reviewing some potential VPs with David Bender.
she's ranting about the "ARROGANT!" label they are trying, once again, to stick on Obama. Funny how If McKeatingFive floats anything or anyone, not a ripple.
this Kaine guy may not be the most desirable, but whoever gets chosen will be mistreated as well.
Rachel is ranting right now!
The wheat was separated from the chaff after Obama's FISA vote. Those prepared to vote for the Man From Illinois will do so if Joe Lieberman is on the ticket.
I have said it over and over obama is so conceited he will never pick someone with a personality. Someone who could get things done. He wants a shadow to be in the background so he, obama, gets all the attention.
mudshark @ 20:
By the way, What is Obama's stance on stem cell?
To the best of my knowledge, he's for it.
Any takers?
Just for once I would love to hear from an actual scientist as for what you can and can't do with Adult and Neonatal Stem Cells.
Also, I would like those pro-life people who seem to then take no interest in poor people/foreigners after they are born to the point where we can kill them in their hundreds of thousands in foreign wars like Iraq to explain their seemingly contradictory stance.
Dancer @ 14:
you are more verbos thank anyone so far. evidently
your opinion is more valid than the rest on the list.
so, please take your own advice and stfu. thank you
Obama will make a political calculation in terms of his V.P.
He'll make a good decision politically. He's smart.
We'll get a smart politician as president, who will leave all of us in 8 years wondering why we don't have national health care, a good energy policy, and a better environment.
Vote Obama.
Do it. Because you hate Repubs.
Let's talk in 8 years.
What does Kaine brings to the table? Bugger-all. He's not even that popular in Virginia, nevermind guaranteeing the state,
Someone on another blog summed Kaine up perfectly:
Kaine is a Terrible choice. I and Most of the Virginia Democrats I know are hoping and praying that Kaine isn't the pick.
Firstly because Virginia Democrats are HORRIFIED at the prospect of Tim Kaine abandoning his post. If he becomes the Vice President, an extremely conservative Lieutenant Governor will inherit the Virginia Governor's mansion. Virginia will be saddled with the terrible, terrible Bill Bolling for a full Two Years! As much as VA Democrats want Obama to win, they don't want Bolling to inherit the Governor's mansion. Some independents may even use this as rationale to vote against an Obama Kaine ticket.
As for Kaine's political ability, he truly has a tin ear to populist politics. Kaine was largely blamed for a horribly designed (and horribly regressive) speeding fine system put in place two years ago. It was so poorly thought out that first offenders found going as little as 10 miles over the speed limit could face a massive $1000 fine. The system became so unpopular that barely a month after its passage many state legislators started plans to repeal the bill. Kaine didn't get on board with the repeal. He completely ignored the issue. He signed the repeal, but never got credit for it. Yes, in the big picture it was an inconsequential issue. That doesn't change the fact that it was probably the single most covered state political issue last year.
How bad is Kaine's tin ear? The new highway bill he endorsed this month included an INCREASE in Virginia's Gasoline Tax! Yes, he endorsed an increase in the gas tax just as gas surged above $4 per gallon... A small increase, but an increase none the less. Personally, I think he was set up by Republican state legislators. Which is yet another reason not to go with Kaine. He has continually been played by Republican legislators. He's also terrible at getting his own legislation enacted. He's championed a ban on smoking in restaurants for the past two years, on each occasion he was shot down.
Thirdly, Kaine just isn't a very good speaker. I suppose he's better than McCain, but that isn't saying much. Compared to Obama's speaking skills, Kaine is a rank amateur. Most of the '08 Democratic presidential hopefuls are better speakers than Kaine. I've seen Kaine speak in person, for that reason alone I wouldn't pick him for VP.
Worst of all, I don't think Kaine will have any meaningful influence on Virginia's presidential vote. The major factor for Obama in Virginia is getting out the black vote. Virginia is 20% black. Tim Kaine is unlikely to influence that metric in any meaningful way. Obama should focus a huge Get Out The Vote effort in Virginia, he doesn't need a Virginian as VP.
I think Obama is tempted to pick Kaine for a number of bad reasons. Obama and Kaine seem to truly get along. Both their families are from the same small town in Kansas. Kaine was (I think) the first Governor to endorse Obama. Kaine REALLY wants the job because if Kaine isn't chosen as VP, his political career will likely end in two years time. VA Governors are term limited and each of our Senators are likely to be Democrats in 2010. Kaine will have no where to go.
None of those are good reasons to pick Kaine as VP. Obama should promise Kaine a cabinet position when his gubernatorial term expires in 2010. He doesn't need Kaine as VP.
My shortlist for VP
Wesley Clark
Brian Schweitzer
Joe Biden (if going for a hard-nosed Cheney-like attack dog)
What people won't mention about his VP pick options is so annoying? I made a youtube video about it b/c it is just so frustrating to me and takes some time to explain.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIYeovC_Bs
I live in Virginia, and am happy to have Kaine as my governor, especially considering the competition. But I'm not thrilled about the prospect of him being VP. One, it'd open up the possibility of a Rethuglican becoming Governor. Two, I'm not at all convinced he'd help Obama carry Virginia--Kaine is popular, but not that popular. Three, Kaine isn't particularly progressive, as you pointed out. And four, he's not a very good campaigner or speaker, and I don't think he'd excel at the VP role of attack dog.
Kaine isn't pro life. you should change this article and actually do some fact checking before you post - http://mediamatters.org/items/200511100006?f=s_search
Kaine spoke more extensively than he has previously about abortion, which he said is a "critical issue" in the race because of the changes on the high court, which has protected abortion rights.
"Jerry Kilgore believes that you can't be anti-abortion unless you want to make abortion a crime, and I fundamentally reject that," Kaine said. "I've always opposed making it a crime -- outlawing a woman or a doctor for participating in an abortion. And you don't have to criminalize women or their doctors to be anti-abortion."
Believing that abortion is wrong doesn't make you crazy. Some people are religious and the left would do well to respect their views. Not every Democrat is pro-choice (although I am).
"...but can someone tell me what Kaine brings to the table?"
You're kidding...Right? White?, Southern?, "Moderate"?.
But wait. "In an interview taped in London for NBC’s “Meet the Press”, Tom Brokaw asked Obama about the “old rules” of picking a ticket mate based on electoral strength in some region...
Obama said, "I want somebody who I’m compatible with, who I can work with, who has a shared vision, who certainly complements me..."
Maybe in order to "complement" him he needs to chose someone who is actually against:
-NAFTA,
-Nook-ular power,
-Corn-based ethanol and coal,
-Immunity for telecoms,
-Widening the war on "terror" in Afghanistan and
-Taking impeachment off the table
Good luck, Senator.
I think Tim Kaine is a red herring. The Obama campaign is too smart for that.
I'll bet Obama doubles down and goes with someone who reinforces his brand of politics. That eliminates Hillary and everyone else with too many years in congress. I'll bet he goes with either Sebelius from Kansas or Schweitzer from Montana.
Marge @ 25:
I disagree Marge. I think the guy is pretty damn smart.
Time will tell. There are times when he comes off as being ( how should I put this?) Self Righteous? No, That's not the word I'm looking for. Indignant? No, that's not it either. Conceited? Ummm, Maybe. But not much imho. Arrogant? No, not that one either.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm????????
Strong? That depends on how you define the way the term is being used.
All I know, Is I agree with him on some issues, and disagree with him on others.
Thats better than disagreeing with the candidate across the board.
I'm still for HRC for VP. There two peas in a pod.
I think it's REALLY unfortunate that you'd say something like "The fact that he’s pro-life should disqualify him right off the bat."
This guy is PERSONALLY pro-life because of his Catholic faith. There is nothing wrong with that. He is also opposed to the death penalty for the same reason. Note that he has NOT intervened as the governor to stop any executions that have happened while he's been in office. I take this to mean that he is able to separate his own personal, moral beliefs from his role as a representative of his constituents. This is the kind of person that I wish there were more of in public service. It's certainly a lot better than "Oh my god he's pro-life! Burn him!"... or the Republican equivalent of "Oh my god he's pro-choice! Burn him!"
I think there are a lot of people out there who are personally pro-life but who would not want to see Roe vs. Wade overturned and who respect the fact that other people should not have their rights infringed on due to the personal beliefs of others. Right? Amazing huh? A nuanced grey-zone in the debate... a lot like what Obama brings to the table. I think he seems like a fine choice.
If people would REALLY rather keep the full on black & white argument that we don't want to see anyone in the mix that disagrees with any of us on any issues, then Obama's campaign is sadly one big futile experiment in maturity in a country full of political infants.
Amato say:
"The fact that he’s pro-life should disqualify him right off the bat."
Does this mean Democrats should be pro-death?
Tim Kaine would be a great pick to confuse the old people, who would see that name on the ballot and accidentally vote for him instead of McCain.
The fact that he’s pro-life should disqualify him right off the bat. And should we even talk about his stance on stem cell research?
Litmus Test or sanity check?
PorridgeGun @ 30:
Awww what did Joe do to get compared to that awful vile excuse for a man?
3 names should be considered if Dems really want to win (in case the Bush administration decides that the terror alert level has to be elevated during the election which it will):
Jim Webb, Wesley Clark, John Kerry
Nuff said -- the names of the VIPs circulating in the media make us look like softball players. You know it, I know it, the republicans know it, just waiting for that VP "Harry Reid" - Lieberman, Edwards ... why not finish with this nonsense and use heavy cannons for once?
Dhalgren @ 3:
Kaine does nothing for me. Too conservative. Too vanilla. Plus, he's not tremendously well liked in Virginia. So there's certainly no guarantee he could deliver that state for Obama.
I don't see Biden as a legit option. I'm sure those plagiarism charges would resurface in a heartbeat. Plus, he loves the sound of his own voice way too much. A little of Biden goes a long way.
Billary? No thanks.
Feingold or Boxer? No chance. With Obama already fighting the "too liberal" label, neither will get the nod.
Hagel? No. If you want a McC*nt neutralizer...I'd STRONGLY consider Wesley Clark. He has the military chops. He's smart. Well versed on the issues. Can go on the attack. And he's a Dem.
afterburner @ 40:
The latter.
casper46 @ 19:
WHOA! NICE "Stripes" reference!
Obama is New World Order globalist. He will bring us more of the same left-right fraud. Wake up people!
Ron Paul is our only choice!
Evan Bayh IS boring, but he might not be a bad nominee, for statistical reasons. Years ago, I worked for a small Indianapolis publisher which put out a small book of Indiana trivia used as a supplemental text in grade school state history classes. One factoid I had to check was that every major party candidate who had a Hoosier in the VP slot was elected president. The only exception (and after my time) was Dan Quayle, running for a second term.
Average Guy @ 46:
Riiiiigggggghhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttttttttttttttt!
Sure lets just breakdown the govt till theres chaos.
Somehow, I thing the demolition of the Dept of Education isn't such a good idea.
I dunno, Maybe it's just me.
Wesley Clark, yes! That would be awesome! I'd love Edwards too, or Gore, but now I'm dreaming.
What I don't get is why anybody would choose a running mate for how they "govern," since a VP doesn't really govern anything, until maaaaybe eight years later if his president has two terms, allowing him to run for president him/herself.
At this point, I think Clinton would be an okay choice for VP, but Clark sounds like a good one. Oh, second choice, Richardson.
Kaine isn't that boring (least on paper) he's also from a swing state, has a degree in economics, and has been elected to command a medium state.
Bayh would be a good pick to through.
Does he have good public speaking skills?
maybe Obama knows something we don't. I hate the choice of Kaine, but agree that if it helps Obama win in this brainless flock of sheep country, let him in and then we can press him.
also, I think it is important (not picking nits) to point out that we progressive do ourselves a disservice even by using the phrase Pro-Life.....anti-choice is what it is. (among other things.)
Average Guy @ 38:
I was wondering if I was going to be the first to mention that "pro-life" crap word. We should never use it ourselves; we should always describe abortion opponents as "anti-choice."
Heh, heh,
HRC is looking better now isn't she?
No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No no no no No No no no No no no no No no No No No no No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No no No No No No No No No No No No No NO!!!!!!!!
Bring back Hillary. it's time to forgive and forget. !8 million strong. I still think Obama will select Hillary no matter how much the MSM tries to take her out of his short list.
Obama/Clinton '08 is unstoppable!
I'm hoping he picks Yo Yo Ma. Obama/Ma 2008
Chaos is what we already have with these Democrat and Republican traitors. What has your government done for you?
Why send your money to the Dept. Of Education just so they can blackmail your local schools by withholding the money you sent them in the first place? It's a useless bureaucracy. I think you could educate your children better than people you've never met. I have woken up that schools are nothing more than indoctrination facilities. Snoop on your parents is the new education being dealt.
mudshark @ 48:
Pro life, stem cell research, gays and gay marriage should not be the criteria we should be looking for in a candidate. We should only be considering getting our country back on track and restoring our democracy. We need to get back our constitutional rights.
It's impossible not to like this guy
FWIW - Rachel Maddow has been saying some intriguing and good things about Kaine -- that he's more progressive and a better politician and fighter than the conventional wisdom would suggest. I agree, though, that the stem cell research position doesn't sound particularly progressive.
Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0i9o-ThOPM
I didn't know Kaine was pro-life. The Democrats need to be more receptive to pro-life voters. If Obama picks Kaine, he's going to kick McCain's dried apricot looking nuts into orbit.
Catholics are itching for a way to vote for Obama and satisfy their consciences. They aren't even looking for a pro-life president... they just want one is serious about reducing the 1,000,000 + abortions a year. And many are willing to consider welfare, child care, health care, and education as a means to reduce that appalling figure by providing more actual choices for women, beyond the "choice" that is offered right now.
Kick ass! I bet my mom might even vote for him (And she's been boycotting the dems for decades).
Beef Jerky @ 56:
Yo Yo ma?????????
Sorry, Not in to punk rock./
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Theres a story behind that comment above. And it's pretty damn funny.
Beef Jerky @ 56:
How 'bout the Dalai Lama? Obama/Lama '08
Obama has been trying to pull in independents and republicans. How about he try to keep his base. Why can't Democrats just tell the people where they stand and let the so-called independents choose what kind of America they want, Bush world or a rational, reality based world. Why is it Democrats try to blur the differences on social issues with Republicans to try and win elections. You don't see Republicans playing this kind of kabuky dance with the public. They just tell people where they stand, like it or not. Good luck on anything changing if Obama is elected. I personall don't see a damn thing he believes to his very core, as he seems to be walking back from all positions he took in the primary. Gore learned the hard way to just say where you stand and let the people have a real choice in elections. If Democrats are ever to walk America from the cliff these conservatives have put it on, we need to offer real alternatives, not Republican lite. I guess it is asking too much to have a real adult running for president, someone who is willing to tell Americans what they need to hear, and not to play to peoples fears. And yes, Obama is playing to Americans fears on social issues, which is why he refuses to take firm stands on the issues. Selecting Kaine as his running mate just verifies he is making the "safe" choice for VP. Kaine signals to pro-lifers and right wing religious conservatives his lack of a firm position on Roe-v-Wade. His attacks on the black family serves to show whites in the South and Appalachia he is not Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton. He is mushy on gun rights and separation of church and state. I don't want another stubborn, beligerent Bush, but I do want to know the candidate I want to support has some real firm principles he believes in with the proviso he may have to compromise in the end.
I mean't Governor Schweitzer....link didn't work.
oh really @ 18:
Bill Bradley. Remember him? Is he Progressive?
mudshark @ 53:
I don't think Obama would ever pick someone he isn't comfortable with personally. The weirdness between him and Hillary is palpable when they are together. He's said a number of times that a VP in his administration will do heavy lifting. You do have to get elected, but you also have to govern. The tension that would build with Hillary as VP in his administration would be a major distraction and he knows it.
Jo @ 66:
Then they could play one-on-one in the White House basketball court.........
The more I think about Schweitzer, the more I like him on the ticket.
Change…then list establishment candidates and surround yourself by the DC quo advisors. Why not bring someone in that has interesting and new ideas, someone that thinks differently than Obama and can counter some of the advice he’ll be getting from the Wall Street friendly economists and status quo foreign policy team he has surrounded himself with?
Did anyone who was really excited about the whole “change” slogan really want real or change or did it just sound good to the ears?
The only thing I want from my government is to be left alone. I want property and privacy rights respected. That's it. Nothing more. I can protect myself, work for myself and educate myself. It's called liberty. Why can't we have that anymore.
Why does everyone want the government to do things it was never supposed to do? I think the attitude of most Americans is apathetic and shameful. The Constitution is virtually all but gone and Obama has said nothing about restoring it let alone defending it. Where are the brave patriots we love to sing about?
Average Guy @ 57:
What has my govt done for me.
Well, for starters, since I'm a Vet they helped me buy my first home. And I can get another one any time I like. I work my ass off.
Well, we could also get into Fire ,Police( which I would understand your reluctance to agree with that one.)
Civil issues, Social issues. I support alot of these issues. Which have been provided by the Dems.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
Shall I go on?
I let myself answer a rather long phone survey a couple nights ago talking to a guy on a VoIP line with challenged bandwidth about who should be each candidate's VP. From the bio paragraph he was reading from, this guy seemed the weakest. But, then, the options were Biden, the Governor of Kansas, and -- geez, I can't remember now.
Maybe he _wasn't_ the weakest.
To be honest, I didn't think any of the choices were that exciting.
Kaine adds nothing to Obama's chances to win. If anything, his chances are diminished as people who already have a concern with an "unknown" Obama's find him paired with an unknown Kaine. I hope his name is being floated around as a red herring. Speaking of red herrings -- Pawlenty, Romney and the rest of the possibilties being named as McCain's pick are nothing more than misinformation, so that when McCain announces he's choosing Colin Powell, the media and public will be rocked. If it is Powell, then there's absolutely nothing Obama can do, short of naming Ronald Wilson Reagan as VP, to win in November. Powell = President McCain.
Madprogressive @ 64:
Maybe its not a kabuki dance. Maybe Obama is what he says. Maybe he wants to bring as many people to the table as possible. Maybe he wants to expand the democrats' appeal beyond the failing coalition of identity groups. You can't win by relying strictly on feminists, gays, African-Americans, and socialists... even if each group has an important contribution to make to the freedoms we enjoy... The democrats need to articulate a positive vision that is more than just a bunch of promises to activists. They need coherence. I think Obama's going for it.
unfrozencaveman @ 67:
I disagree. Their both Professional politicians. I think they would get along very well.
They know what their doing. Their playing the game. I know no one likes to hear it said like that.
But it is THE Game .
Can anyone tell me what a "Hoosier" is?
And please don't tell me "someone from Indiana."
call me @ 73:
Sure, you think that people will forget about Powell's performance at the U.N. that helped lead us into an invasion of Iraq? NOT!
mudshark @ 71:
I will! How about protecting some of our beautiful, fragile, and unique natural resources through the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service? No private company can or will do as good a job; they're all in BUSINESS for a buck. Disney? Maybe, if you want to pay $75 a person to get into a National Park - for one day. More importatnly, these lands belong to ALL Americans, not just ones who can afford it. It's actually a national shame these agencies are so underfunded they've had to start charging entrance fees and other fees. They should be FREE to all Americans.
taller ghost walt @ 76:
I'm not sure, But I think you can find them down by the airport.
I vote for the "attack dog", Joe Biden. He has foreign policy experience to match
mccain. Kaine does not guarantee Virginia, no more than Edwards did N.C.
You know that the bush/rove/mcain machine is going to go negative, big time. Biden's the guy that can slam back at their lies.
anti-abortion
anti-war
anti-death penalty
anti-euthanasia
PRO-LIFE defines me to a tee. I should take my support elsewhere?!?
call me @ 73:
All the Dems would have to do is play the tape of Colon Powell at the UN lying about the "threat" from Iraq.
taller ghost walt @ 76:
Kurt Vonnegut is your only hope.
taller ghost walt @ 76:
Have you ever tried lookomg things up for your self?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier
King of Kings @ 81:
Nope, we've got a big tent here. My objection is to those who use "pro-life" when discussing abortion, yet are avidly for the death penalty and sending Americans into disastrous wars for a pack of lies.
BushCo certainly is NOT "pro-life."
King of Kings @ 81:
This defines me.
As for you taking your support elsewhere? = Choice.
I would choose somebody like the governor of Michigan, I think, who's proven to have a great deal of talent, politically. Kill the feministas' objections, and get a twofer, the first black president and the first female VP. The Dittoheads would shit their pants, too, which is always a plus (not for their dry cleaners, though).
Someone up above said Kaine has two more years as governor of Virginia. That is incorrect. Virginia elects its governors every fourth year on odd years. Kaine was elected in 2005, so his last year would be next year. As a Virginian, I'm not happy about Kaine vacating his position for even one year, because as the poster said, the lt. governor is a crazy right-winger. I'm also not happy about the prospect of Mark Warner as a VP choice, because I'm not sure there's a Democrat who is popular enough to run in his place for the Senate slot he is seeking -- unless Tim Kaine steps in.
Tim Kaine has been scientifically proven in numerous laboratory tests to not be Hillary Clinton. This is the most important qualification for any possible candidate for Vice President. Also, he guarantees Virginia, as mentioned. Not just Virginia, but he should play similarly well elsewhere in the south. Did I mention that he's not Hillary Clinton?
General_Rennenkampf @ 86:
Can't, unfortunately. She was born in Canada.
Just heard this guys name the other day.... And how he would deliever Virginia... Sorry, I still don't care...Who the fuck is this dude anyway and what's his big claim to fame other than someone who can apparently magically deliever one state to the dems... ONE state??!!! Oh come on... I'm trying really hard to get past this FISA shit and all the rest of that weakass b.s. with your name on it Obama... Playing the triangulation game ain't the way to make me feel any better.... Jesus, you fuckers at DNC central are gonna have to do better than this shit... And I thought Bobby Jiggles or whatever his name is was bad enough but didn't really give a shit, since I figured the more repubs shot themselves in the foot, the better off I felt the nation would be in the long run.. But not if you dem morons are going to try and outbore the repukes... What is this, some kind of race to the most anonymous name either party can come up with??? At this rate, Cindy Sheehan is going to end up looking like a better pick for something... Actually I'm going to vote for her to kick Nancy's appeasing ass to the curb if I have to write it in myself.. But I digress, that's another rant for another time......JD
hillary clinton's bizarre statements during the primary regarding bobby kennedy & the summer of '68 should automatically disqualify her for any consideration.
the negative ads she made against obama, which, in the "youtube age" will be replayed endlessly, should also automatically cross her off the list. sorry, hill... ya reap what ya sow, don'cha know?
obama is gearing up for a genuine battle of ideas w/ mccain over the war in iraq. has hillary admitted her vote was a mistake? has she apologized?
obama's already indicated he's looking for someone who can govern. what has hillary ever governed? health care reform in the early 90's? her campaign this year?
has hillary even been truly vetted? could someone please provide me w/ a link to the clinton library donors? or the presidential records of her days as first lady? how about her college thesis?
and finally, perhaps most importantly, obama doesn't need his interns worrying about being chased all over the white house by bill. don't like the reputation, bubba? sorry, you created your own reality.
mudshark @ 75:
Ain't gonna happen. Obama surrounds himself with no-drama types and the Clintons are a drama machine. Besides, how disingenuous would the "change" slogan become if you were personally responsible for extending the Clinton-Bush national ticket streak to at least 30 years? I'm convinced that Obama is going to pull a surprise pick. Keep your eye own Brian Schweitzer, he's not on the radar yet but I think he will be.
casper46 @ 21:
We'll simply stop her. Again.
Christ, a more qualified, likable woman better hurry the hell up and make a splash in the party so we can prove to these Clinton supporters that it's not because she's a woman, dammit.
mudshark @ 75:
Speaking about the games, here's a spam I've just received : Subject: "It is time to DRILL DRILL DRILL" http://www.freedomworks.org/petition/drill/ Today Hawaii Democratic Congressman spoke something about 10 man bi-partisan group that's discussing how to proceed with the Off-shore Drilling legislation. Let's see. The bi-partisan team will be led by an outspoken Congressman from a state living from tourism exactly why? As we know, there are now 9 years and 11 months left before America is 100% green (The Gore Challenge) and what our government is doing must make every liberal, environmentalist, progressive democrat really, reeeeeealy happy.
If Senator Obama thinks this guy will bring in the centrist vote or the independent vote. He's sadly mistaken. He'll lose more of his base just by picking this guy.
Just pick HRC and get it over with already.
Who said she was too divisive? The Media. That's who.
( Shaking my head)
Isn't Jack Murtha pro-life?
Frankly both Kaine and Bayh are on the same level.
Both are from red states both are governors.
Bayh has been governor longer but Kaine isn't a fake Christian like Cheney.
Don't forget the VP doesn't vote or anything except when the senate is tied.
Other than that he's basically an advisor and a advisor that holds many views dissimilar to that of the person he's advising can be adventagious.
unfrozencaveman @ 92:
Well then, Please enlighten us on his positions. Tell us where he stands on the issues. Stem Cell, Choice, Drilling, Foreign affairs. Please, tell us.
Matt in Texas @ 89:
...Dammit. Well, what about somebody else who might heal the rifts caused by the Clinton-Obama primaries? Like Kathleen Sebelius for instance? She's got as much to offer as the Michigan governor does.
Same goes for Evan Bayh. What the heck does he bring to the table, except the Repubs and Beltway Bobbleheads mantra that the Dems need to "reach across the aisle"? In other words, all I see is a useless right-wing Blue Dog who enabled the Bush/Repub catastrophes that we have had to endure.
Bud @ 17:
She'll be as old as McPapen is now. If McPapen loses, then Hillary will have that same stigma he did.
mike @ 96:
Hawaii. Hmmmmmmm?
Drilling Offshore in and around Hawaii.
I dunno, something about 50-80 ft open ocean swells just makes me say nope. + they do get bigger.
smart
taller ghost walt @ 77:
Its one of the best sports movies ever made...as for the word, knows for sure what it is.
taller ghost walt @ 77:
Google "Hoosier" and you'll find definitions ranging from white trash to hard-working to a alumnus of Indiana University.
mudshark @ 99:
You have google and youtube at your disposal. I will say he has a great grasp of our energy problems and he speaks arabic. He's a risky choice but has way more upside than anyone else. I think the Obama campaign has him on the list but he's tucked away out of view. Why do you think Obama spent the 4th of July in Montana? Obama made a risk by going on the high profile overseas tour and I think he'll take another risk in his VP choice. We'll see.
Make that "an alumnus"
Jeon Ji-Yung @ 95:
No, its because she's not "likable".
We'll never learn I guess. "Likeable" is what got us in this mess.
Good grief.
unfrozencaveman @ 106:
Please don't pull that you google him bullshit on me. Your the one who suggested him. You provide the info on him.
Or just don't bother if your not willing to back up your assertion that this is the man.
(sigh)
too many people think about picking a vice president for some demographic, or to "balance" the platform's message.
i jab bill clinton a bit on this threads, but it was pretty brilliant when he tapped al gore. i think this is the best model -pick someone who's like another you -in gore's case, he was actually better than bill.
the 2nd best model ever was when george w. bush picked cheney -it guaranteed no one would ever assassinate him; bush will surely make it out alive.
and really think about it: the ONLY reason we have the vice presidency at all is, aside from the senate tie-breaker, is to give the president an adequate replacement, should the unthinkable occur.
many presidents in the 1800's didn't even HAVE vice presidents.
so obama needs to pick someone who doesn't represent an agenda much different from his own. there needs to be absolutely NO strategic advantage for any would-be conspiracy.
this is where jfk got it wrong, in my opinion. lbj was a TERRIBLE choice. we're not supposed to dig too deep into conspiracy theory on this site (google: e. howard hunt / rolling stone or the history channel's banned documentary, "the men who killed kennedy", if you're interested and looking for a place to start, on your own).
so, i'll make this point without my tin-foil hat: look at who lbj's friends were, where he was from, his kbr ties, the rumor jfk was going to dump him in the '64 campaign and then look at what happened for the next 12 years in vietnam. even assuming oswald acted alone, many powerful people who hated kennedy greatly benefitted when he was gone.
obama can't make that same mistake of letting a swarm of vultures circle above the white house.
my top picks:
john edwards -no corporate $$$
kathleen sebellius -successful governor in red state (and saying hillary alone deserves to break that ceiling is ridiculous -by that logic obama should tap geraldine ferraro)
bill richardson -successful governor in red state
tim kaine -successful governor in red state
King of Kings @ 82:
"Anti-abortion." I don't know anyone who is "pro abortion". Its taking a life, no doubt.
But that's not the issue. Its simply none of my bizness nor the government's to tell a woman and her doctor what decision she must make.
Ever.
Otay @ 101:
Bayh brings Indiana, which O is slightly leading. But his vacated senate seat would be filled by a Republican appointee.
Other than that, Bayh is a DLC Blue Dog alright, even if he did vote against Roberts and Alito.
Why not Richardson? Too much melanin on the ticket vs. too much melanoma(McCain)???
(I'm a member of a biracial family so that's p.c.)
The VP selection is one of the most overrated things in politics. John Edwards didn't help or hurt Kerry anymore than Cheney helped or hurt Bush in 2004.
Kaine is a good pick because he's a Washington outsider and he does no harm. He's a bad choice because he lacks anything meaningful in his brief career. I think they're just fishing him to gauge the response. I agree that Bayh is like a poor man's Gore before Gore was cool
I prefer Biden even though he can go too far with his mouth at times. But when he's on the attack, he's DAMN GOOD! He won't carry a state for Barack, but he'll bleed the hell out of McCain and make a joke out of Romney.
PorridgeGun @ 112:
But Obama sez he won't choose based on geography.
Uh, huh. Riiiight.
Fox News Alert @ 105:
A Hoosier is any person who thinks Bobby Knight is the cause and solution to all of life's problems.
mudshark @ 87:
Add serial killer to the death penalty one and you have me.
The stem cell issue isn't necessarily as damning as it once was. There have been remarkable advances in adult stem cell usage. A guy at MIT has cured sickle cell anemia in mice using adult stem cells. They are very promising. I would, however, fully support govt. funded research into both embryonic and adult stem cells.
I don't necessarily have a problem with you having a "personal" view on any issue, as long as you can separate that from your responsibilities to the general population and the greater good i.e. not interfering with my choice, and not interferring with advances in science.
bullfrog @ 110:
Boosh didn't pick Cheney. Cheney picked Cheney.
Fanon @ 117:
Agreed.
And Thank You for saying it so well.
John:
I think we need to all grit our teeth and admit that Hillary is the best choice to help Obama win. Edwards and Gore won't accept.
Marge @ 25:
After 8 years of Cheney getting things done, why wouldn't anyone want a VP who was completely invisible unless they are needed? Who was LBJ's vice President? How much did FDR work with Truman?
Matt in Texas @ 52:
Not a crapword, "pro-life" is much, much worse -- it's a pernicious propaganda term so slick that even we are confused. We could just as easily have co-opted the expression for ourselves for, for instance, being against the death penalty or for nuclear arms control, but I think generally we don't find that our beliefs require the serial use of euphemism.
But as long as the euphemism exists, and even if the will to fight it is not there, Matt in Texas is right. To use it is to play their game by their rules.
Ron @ 78:
Granted, that's a BIG negative against Powell, but it's probably his only negative. Not sure if McSame would even consider Powell, but if he did, they'd be very hard to beat in November. No one's has exactly held Bush's feet to the fire on the war, and I believe that a lot of the public would be very willing to forgive Powell.
Joe Tseng @ 120:
Cheney was the best choice for Bush to win. Too bad that governing as President is actually more important than running for President. I'm sorry, but I don't want Hillary or Bill anywhere near the White House.
mudshark @ 109:
Now I remember why I stopped commenting on this site. Came back today to C&L to check out the comments, but I guess it's still kindergarten over here.
unfrozencaveman @ 125:
Right. sure thing.
Your the one dodging here.
see ya.
Stanton Hope @ 123:
So you havn't read about Powell's coverups for the killings of Vietmanese villagers either.
Both John McCain and Colin Powell are in their 70s. I think it's safe to assume he'll pick someone not born in the 1930s. And besides, wasn't Powell giving Obama foreign policy tips at one point? He even said in an interview he supports Obama's policy towards Iran.
When I read things like this I begin to believe the folks who say the dems are trying to lose this election.
This isn't a case of "Hey let's find someone who makes our guy look like a star". You've got a star. We don't need a dan quayle here. Find someone worthy of the position or prepare to lose in november.
The election will be decided by old ladies playing bingo in Ohio. At this point, Obama can't win no matter who he puts on the ticket.
Brian Schweitzer would be an interesting choice. He kinda breaks the mold.
Rancher scientist, speaks fluent Arabic, pro women's right to choose, very popular in a red state.
Would be nice for a change to have someone from the Rocky Mountain states who isn't an asshole like shotgun or widestance or Alan (Homer) Simpson.
http://www.theleftanchor.com/2008/05/vice-presidet-1.html
Brian Schweitzer would be interesting.
He breaks the mold.
Rancher/scientist/fluent in Arabic/pro choice/wide popularity in a very red state.
It would be nice to have a national rep from the Rockies not an asshole like shotgun, widestance, Dirk Diglar-Kempthorne, or former Senator Alan (Homer) Simpson.
I'm also not crazy about Kaine. But, what he brings to Obama can be summed up in one word "VIRGINIA".
hmmmmm
Joe Biden.
DoctorRobert @ 133:
This is nuts. What states do you think HRC will bring in?
Mudshark,
I see your point, but you earned that house. The governement didn't give anything you didn't earn. As far as I'm concerned all Veterans should not have to pay a single cent in taxes... ever. Our government has routinely shown us they don't count wounded verterans or first responders as a priority when they return from the front lines.
As far as fire, police and such. These things should be done at a local level. I don't need a police man to do for me what I can do for myself. I can defend myself and we can defend my community just as good if not better. You seem to forget that everything the federal government gives you was yours to begin with? I'm just saying that freedom comes with a lot of responsiblity and it also has it's dangers. The danger has shown it's face. Criminals in OUR government both Republican and Democrats are set to destroy that which, you yourself, served to protect. This should give you pause at te very least.
FEMA has shown us during Katrina what federal beuracracy is all about. They were turning away trucks full of water and food sent by the private sector. They were cutting down phone lines in Mississippi and Luisiana. Ever wonder why they did that? Local sherrifs had to draw down on them in order to stop them for Go's sake.
Let us not forget 9/11. There are potentially 50,000 people who will die from respratory disease and other ailments caused of the toxic dust. OUR lovely EPA said the air at ground zero was safe to breathe. They new it wasn't. There are your tax dollars at work. The first reponders are being denied even the most basic medical care. Individuals citizens and philanthropic orginizations, like churches and foundations can do far more than big brother ever will.
They tax us merely to have an existance. As soon as we realize we don't need them then we will become much more prosperous and living the life the Founders envisioned.
mudshark @ 72:
I like Hagel for many a reason: He is quite known in Virginia (no need for Kaine) and might bring Nebraska also. Has foreign policy experience, has actually sat down with Iranians and "talked" not threatened, won a Purple Heart in 'Nam, has worked with Biden and other Dems and on and on. And of course he is a Republican (when being a Republican didn't make me spit) but not of the Repuke variety.
I can dream.
He is not "prolife" as you suggest, rather anti-choice!
Average Guy @ 137:
Uh, huh. What happens in anarchy when government transportation shuts down? When most people aren't farmers and can't grow their own food? What happens to the disabled? Crime? All those lovely little facets of civilization will go haywire without government and hundreds of millions will die. Unless you're like one anarchist I know who thinks survival of the fittest will prevail, a rather Niezschean, dare I Godwin it, way of thinking.
Mike Johnson @ 37:
Excellent points. If someone's against abortion, the death penalty, and war (except in genuine national self-defense), *then* they can call themselves "pro-life". Anyone else is just plain anti-choice and needs to STFU and mind their own business. If Kaine's consistent on those points, then I'll give him props for that, even though I don't agree with him on all counts.
But the stem cell opposition is a genuine concern, because if someone can't make the mental distinction between an undiversified collection of cells and a full-fledged human being, then they will more than probably oppose most (if not all) forms of contraception. And then you see public funding for contraception (at home and abroad) slashed. And brace yourself for a whole 'nuther round of the travesty of abstinence-only (ahem!) "education." Nuh-uh.
As far as a running-mate goes, I'd think that Gen. Clark or Bill Richardson would be the no-brainer picks. (Granted, I'd looooove to see Feingold shred the GOP's veep in the debates, but...) My bet's on Clinton getting tapped for Secretary of State as her consolation prize.
Average Guy @ 137:
By all means, Vote for Ron Paul.
respectfully,
mudshark.
Good Night folks.
Be well.
And Yes, that means you too AverageGuy.
.GN.
There is only SINGLE digit lead that Obama over McCain right now.
There are certain folks WATCHING to see what Obama will DECIDE to appoint as his VP running mate.
I can definitely see the MAJORITY of women voters and the OLDER FOLKS who still CONSTITUTE the bulk of the voting public (and who overwhelmingly voted for Hillary), switching to VOTING for John McCain the day Obama picks anybody other than Hillary.
.
What is wrong with some of us on the left? This is NOT rocket science.
Don't some of us STILL REALISE that this PAST DEMOCRATIC primary was effectively a TIE?
A SIGNIFICANT portion of Hillary's people who DON"T RELATE to Obama, will VOTE for McCain in November and effectively hand over the White House to the GOP.
Barrack and Hillary APPEALED to DIFFERENT DEMOGRPAHICS in the Party. That is the problem that will cost DEMS in November if these two, do not form a joint ticket.
Duh.. by the way asking Hillary and Bill to campaign across the country for Obama will NOT solve the problem. A lot of those folks will be seriously PEEVED if Obama does not do the right thing for himself more than anyone else.
Asking Hillary and Bill to campaign hard for him is NOT GOING TO ASSUAGE those folks if she is not on the ticket. Some of those people STILL FIRMLY BELIEVE that she was "MUSCLED" out of the primaries.
O Democrats always snatching DEFEAT from the jaws of victory.
We are going to scew it up again simply because we STILL don't understand the MINDSET of a significant portion of the American people.
We have had only two Democratic Presidents in over 40 years to show for ourselves and we still haven't figured out why.
WAKE UP!!
Sebelius or Biden.
Selbelius for continuation of "Change" or "New".
Biden for "Experience", "Defense", "We'll kick their ass!"
I'll live with either. Christ! I'd live with Kaine. But, I'd never vote for him for anything else except VP.
There is only SINGLE digit lead that Obama has over McCain right now according to most polls.
There are certain folks WATCHING to see who Obama will DECIDE to appoint as his VP running mate.
I can definitely see the MAJORITY of women voters and the OLDER FOLKS who still CONSTITUTE the bulk of the voting public (and who overwhelmingly voted for Hillary), switching to VOTING for John McCain the day Obama picks anybody other than Hillary.
What is wrong with some of us on the left? This is NOT rocket science.
Don’t some of us STILL REALISE that this PAST DEMOCRATIC primary was effectively a TIE?
A SIGNIFICANT portion of Hillary’s people who DON”T RELATE to Obama, will VOTE for McCain in November and effectively hand over the White House to the GOP.
Barrack and Hillary APPEALED to DIFFERENT DEMOGRPAHICS in the Party. That is the problem that will cost DEMS in November if these two, do not form a joint ticket.
Duh.. by the way asking Hillary and Bill to campaign across the country for Obama will NOT solve the problem. A lot of those folks will be seriously PEEVED if Obama does not do the right thing for himself more than anyone else.
Asking Hillary and Bill to campaign hard for him is NOT GOING TO ASSUAGE those folks if she is not on the ticket. Some of those people STILL FIRMLY BELIEVE that she was “MUSCLED” out of the primaries.
O Democrats always snatching DEFEAT from the jaws of victory.
We are going to scew it up again simply because we STILL don’t understand the MINDSET of a significant portion of the American people.
We have had only two Democratic Presidents in over 40 years to show for ourselves and we still haven’t figured out why.
WAKE UP!!
General,
You ask.
"Uh, huh. What happens in anarchy when government transportation shuts down? When most people aren't farmers and can't grow their own food? What happens to the disabled? Crime? All those lovely little facets of civilization will go haywire without government and hundreds of millions will die. Unless you're like one anarchist I know who thinks survival of the fittest will prevail, a rather Niezschean, dare I Godwin it, way of thinking"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
All these things could be taken by you and I and our fellow freedom loveing Americans. You seem to equate resposibility and freedom with Anarchy. I ebelive in our Constitution as the basis for our social contract with one another. I think there are far more honorable people than you may imagine.
Well as they say you can lead ahorse to water and you can also bring a man a fish. In the case you offer as choas I see as an oppourtunity to learn to do for ourselves. Why not grow a roof top garden? Why not meet your neihgbors and develope relationships and talk about those potential emergencies. I personally feel outraed when I see Blackwater mers and UsS military drawing down on my fellow citizens. Natural emergencies are being used to instil Martial law these days.
When push comes to shove teh governement will not be there for you. Just ask the people in Luisiana who tried crossing a bridge to another township. Walking on a public road they had shotgums pointed at the face, there children and there families. I take offence to that and all that represents... which is simply tyranny.
"Uh, huh. What happens in anarchy when government transportation shuts down? When most people aren't farmers and can't grow their own food? What happens to the disabled? Crime? All those lovely little facets of civilization will go haywire without government and hundreds of millions will die. Unless you're like one anarchist I know who thinks survival of the fittest will prevail, a rather Niezschean, dare I Godwin it, way of thinking"
Wonderland @ 145:
Huh...Wahhh. Dammit. Why did you wake me?
I was having a great dream. The U.S. wasn't a police state, the icecaps weren't melting and we were smart enough not to elect a lying corporate shill as our faux leader.
Ahhhhhh.
Tim Kaine is a good governor of a state that is doing well. He's a good manager. Yes, he's a moderate. Would I like my governor to be more left wing? Yes. But there are lots of other people here in Virginia who have different ideas than I do and our Tim Kaine gets along with most everybody. And Virginia is doing pretty well.
He's a decent person, too.
PorridgeGun @ 30:
no, the Virginia legislature, as at that time run completely by the GOP, were to blame for that speeding fine fiasco. so you got that wrong. it was something they thought of and passed with many lawmakers, including Dems, foolishly not knowing what they were voting on. it was a public relations mess and perhaps, in some ways, enabled the Dems to win control of the state Senate last year.
EVERYBODY is "pro-life", especially people who want to keep abortion safe and legal. The term you should have used is "ANTI-CHOICE".
Please do not use the "framing" of our opposition.
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