Let's get to the big mistake first: Barack Obama should not have agreed to do this. If I were the Senator I'd be looking for a time machine this morning and go back to the day I agreed to show up, change my mind and write this note: "Dear Rick: Thanks for the invitation to appear the same night as my friend John McCain at your church. I get alot of invitations, though, and will be appearing elsewhere that evening."
In other words, Rev. Lynn is advising Obama that it would have been better for him to lie. How Christian. ;)
Bmaz and William Ockham been hitting it out of the park for days now at highly respected Emptywheel's (headed to the DEm Convention) blog over at Firedoglake
Just want to mention that I have been volunteering in Colorado for the last week for the Dems. In the last three days I have met four Republicans (two middle aged women, on WWII Vet and an retired teacher)who have all jumped from the Republicans ship and are volunteering for the Dems in Denver.
Let's keep pushing hard for ACCOUNTABILITY NOW folks the thinking Republicans are pushing too. We have to push the Dems hard too.
I hope most people saw this thing as it was...I tried to approach it with an open mind, hoping that a Christian would have the morals and values that would require he be fair minded and even handed. However I find that most Christians are fake. They say one thing but do something else. The use Jesus as a doormat to wipe their sins on as if it didn't matter.
Me, I'm an atheist and I am very true to my values. I believe (as the myth they call Jesus used to preach) in the Golden Rule. I try me best to treat others as I should be treated, and I forgive the petty shit. I will still stand up for myself when needed but mostly I try to live a humble life.
But these idiots think their better then be "because they have God", the trouble is this same excuse makes them think they can do what they want without consequence.
Its almost obvious now that this "forum" was skewed to make Sen. McCain look smarter than he really is. He doesn't strike me as religious (point in his favor in my book but I don't vote based on faith) but he may very well be the current darling of the Religious Right. The phrasing of the questions and the absence of Sen. McCain from the "cone of silence" threw this whole forum into the trash can and showed, once again that the right (not necessarily the Religious Right but the gestaldt right) will do what ever it takes to win elections but it doesn't give a damn about ethics.
Sorry. As I was saying--PEF @ 3--How do you know Obama wasn't going to be appearing somewhere else that night, like maybe in his own living room? It's false equivalence to insist Barry Lynn stick to the absolute truth, while allowing McCaint's reverend whatsisname to flat-out lie about McC.'s being held where he could not hear the questions or Obama's answers.
Particularly when it was obvious from McC's answers that he had access to the questions in advance. To clarify: Lynn's "lie" was a social white lie, while that televangelist and McCain's lies went to the heart of the entire session.
Cafferty is an equal opportunity hater (as close as you can get to balanced), but he REALLY doesn't like McCain.
Cafferty: Is McCain Another Bush? (Yes)
Transcript
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Russia invades Georgia and President Bush goes on vacation. Our president has spent one-third of his entire two terms in office either at Camp David, Maryland, or at Crawford, Texas, on vacation.
His time away from the Oval Office included the month leading up to 9/11, when there were signs Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, and the time Hurricane Katrina destroyed the city of New Orleans.
Sen. John McCain takes weekends off and limits his campaign events to one a day. He made an exception for the religious forum on Saturday at Saddleback Church in Southern California.
I think he made a big mistake. When he was invited last spring to attend a discussion of the role of faith in his life with Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, at Messiah College in Pennsylvania, McCain didn't bother to show up. Now I know why.
It occurs to me that John McCain is as intellectually shallow as our current president. When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. "It means I'm saved and forgiven." Great scholars have wrestled with the meaning of faith for centuries. McCain then retold a story we've all heard a hundred times about a guard in Vietnam drawing a cross in the sand.
Asked about his greatest moral failure, he cited his first marriage, which ended in divorce. While saying it was his greatest moral failing, he offered nothing in the way of explanation. Why not? Don't Miss
* The Cafferty File: Join the conversation * Jack's book: "It's Getting Ugly Out There" * Analysis: Is McCain finding his way on faith?
Throughout the evening, McCain chose to recite portions of his stump speech as answers to the questions he was being asked. Why? He has lived 71 years. Surely he has some thoughts on what it all means that go beyond canned answers culled from the same speech he delivers every day.
He was asked "if evil exists." His response was to repeat for the umpteenth time that Osama bin Laden is a bad man and he will pursue him to "the gates of hell." That was it.
He was asked to define rich. After trying to dodge the question -- his wife is worth a reported $100 million -- he finally said he thought an income of $5 million was rich.
One after another, McCain's answers were shallow, simplistic, and trite. He showed the same intellectual curiosity that George Bush has -- virtually none.
Where are John McCain's writings exploring the vexing moral issues of our time? Where are his position papers setting forth his careful consideration of foreign policy, the welfare state, education, America's moral responsibility in the world, etc., etc., etc.?
John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899 at the Naval Academy at Annapolis. His father and grandfather were four star admirals in the Navy. Some have suggested that might have played a role in McCain being admitted. His academic record was awful. And it shows over and over again whenever McCain is called upon to think on his feet.
He no longer allows reporters unfettered access to him aboard the "Straight Talk Express" for a reason. He simply makes too many mistakes. Unless he's reciting talking points or reading from notes or a TelePrompTer, John McCain is lost. He can drop bon mots at a bowling alley or diner -- short glib responses that get a chuckle, but beyond that McCain gets in over his head very quickly.
I am sick and tired of the president of the United States embarrassing me. The world we live in is too complex to entrust it to someone else whose idea of intellectual curiosity and grasp of foreign policy issues is to tell us he can look into Vladimir Putin's eyes and see into his soul.
George Bush's record as a student, military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure. And the part that troubles me most is he seems content with himself.
He will leave office with the country $10 trillion in debt, fighting two wars, our international reputation in shambles, our government cloaked in secrecy and suspicion that his entire presidency has been a litany of broken laws and promises, our citizens' faith in our own country ripped to shreds. Yet Bush goes bumbling along, grinning and spewing moronic one-liners, as though nobody understands what a colossal failure he has been.
I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him.
Mon, 08/18/2008 - 14:16 — Liberal AND Proud (not verified)
We are fighting against evil in this election.
The GOP have no soul, no conscience. They are attempting to wear us down, to make us despair, or to overreact to an endless assault of lies, character assassinations, veiled racism, bigotry, insults and contempt for good.
We cannot let them win. We can't stop. We must endure. At the risk of sounding terribly cliched, the night is darkest before the dawn. This can't go on. Daylight will come.
I can tell from some of the posts in the other threads that people are becoming disheartened, angry and resigned to fate.
We can't be that way. It is what THEY want and are counting on.
Obama did nothing wrong...He was an honest broker in this rigged bullshit. Warren and the old man cheated: clearly playing with fixed decks. As long as the debates are fair Obama will exact revenge by exposing and humiliating this unworthy fraud.
Mon, 08/18/2008 - 14:19 — St. Paul Scout (not verified)
Just read where NATO is crying about the Russians not living up to some cease fire
terms. I got news for NATO. You put ABM Treaty violating defensive missles in Poland, Russia grabs hold of your oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Basin. I wonder when Europe will tell the Americans to go home. Nato threatens to poke Russia in the eye, Russia grabs them by the balls and gives a good hard squeeze. I wonder how many Russian cruise missles are targeted at Suadi Arabia, Qatar, UEA etc. etc. etc.....
Mon, 08/18/2008 - 14:20 — Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s (not verified)
As the Federal Government moves social services to the FAITH BASED INITIATIVES, the Religious Right moves one step closer to being the Federal Government.
Remember Katrina. Bye FEMA...hello FAITH BASED INITIATIVES...Goodbye Jumbo.
I still think the Bushies blew Katrina so they could turn FEMA over to the theocrats.
Let's get to the big mistake first: Barack Obama should not have agreed to do this. If I were the Senator I'd be looking for a time machine this morning and go back to the day I agreed to show up, change my mind and write this note: "Dear Rick: Thanks for the invitation to appear the same night as my friend John McCain at your church. I get alot of invitations, though, and will be appearing elsewhere that evening."
In other words, Rev. Lynn is advising Obama that it would have been better for him to lie. How Christian. ;)
I totally disagree, pef. Candidates turn down invitations all the time and do wind up appearing elsewhere. Barry Lynn is saying Obama should have passed on this totally fake "debate" where the moderator was clearly biased against him, and also Obama should have made a stand against the church/politics amalgamation that the Saddleback event represented.
The GOP have no soul, no conscience. They are attempting to wear us down, to make us despair, or to overreact to an endless assault of lies, character assassinations, veiled racism, bigotry, insults and contempt for good.
We cannot let them win. We can't stop. We must endure. At the risk of sounding terribly cliched, the night is darkest before the dawn. This can't go on. Daylight will come.
I can tell from some of the posts in the other threads that people are becoming disheartened, angry and resigned to fate.
We can't be that way. It is what THEY want and are counting on.
The only problem here, is that there is no difference between Mccain and Obama. They both answer to the military industrial complex.
And why should we have to wait for anything? We have a sitting President who is blatant violation of countless domestic and international laws, a proven war criminal, and yet our Congress absolutely refuses to act on it. Pelosi needs to be tried for treason herself. How dare she let such blatant criminality run amuck in our capital, and still claim "off the table". She is nothing less than a traitor.
There is no hope. There hasn't been any hope for a very long time.
You want people to feel empowered again? Post the pictures of GW Bush and anyone even remotely associated with him, in orange jumpsuits while standing trial for crimes against humanity.
Then and only then, will people regain trust in gov't.
I have to say, Obama seems to want to bring Georgia into NATO. And I'm a bit worried about that. They were rejected for good reason.
Besides, what the heck is NATO good for anyway? It's outlived its time and should be disbanded. Is the USA _really_ going to go to war over (say) Hungary? They had their moment of truth in that matter back in '56.
And I'd sure as heck give better odds on Greece and Turkey fighting a war against each other rather than with.
After 2+ plus years of an endless campaign I'm completely baffled as to how it is that the American voter is to be comfortable with getting a little over 2 months with the Vice-Presidential choice of either candidate.
It's like a mackerel by moonlight, it shines, and it stinks.
The GOP have no soul, no conscience. They are attempting to wear us down, to make us despair, or to overreact to an endless assault of lies, character assassinations, veiled racism, bigotry, insults and contempt for good.
We cannot let them win. We can't stop. We must endure. At the risk of sounding terribly cliched, the night is darkest before the dawn. This can't go on. Daylight will come.
I can tell from some of the posts in the other threads that people are becoming disheartened, angry and resigned to fate.
We can't be that way. It is what THEY want and are counting on.
The only problem here, is that there is no difference between Mccain and Obama. They both answer to the military industrial complex.
And why should we have to wait for anything? We have a sitting President who is blatant violation of countless domestic and international laws, a proven war criminal, and yet our Congress absolutely refuses to act on it. Pelosi needs to be tried for treason herself. How dare she let such blatant criminality run amuck in our capital, and still claim "off the table". She is nothing less than a traitor.
There is no hope. There hasn't been any hope for a very long time.
You want people to feel empowered again? Post the pictures of GW Bush and anyone even remotely associated with him, in orange jumpsuits while standing trial for crimes against humanity.
Then and only then, will people regain trust in gov't.
No hope? Ok, when are you scheduling the mass suicide?
Posting pictures of GW Bush is not going to affect the method and context of the message that is being sent.
As for Obama and McCain being the same. Sorry, that's too easy. I grant that corporations have power in government, but that has always been tempered by the power of the people. This is America, and we can still demand change and get it...if we really want to.
The Founding Fathers are watching...and so are our children.
Mon, 08/18/2008 - 14:40 — Liberal AND Proud (not verified)
Ok, now you've got me started.
Heads were broken for unions to be formed. Heads were broken for racial equality...and the fight is still going on. I'm not advocating violence, but unfortunately, change is painful, difficult and ugly.
If we are willing to just lay down and take it, then nothing will change.
Mon, 08/18/2008 - 14:42 — bill free (not verified)
Where were the important questions that I wanted asked?
Do you believe that dinosaurs & man walked the earth and lived together a few thousand years ago?
Do you believe that the earth is thousands, millions or billions of years old?
Do you believe that intelligent design should be taught in schools as a science?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Sojourner's Presidential Forum in June of 2007 pretty much outline the faiths of our Democratic candidates well enough?
I realize Obama has had prior dealing with Rick Warren, but this whole Saddleback affair seems more of a red herring in light of this.
As the Federal Government moves social services to the FAITH BASED INITIATIVES, the Religious Right moves one step closer to being the Federal Government.
Remember Katrina. Bye FEMA...hello FAITH BASED INITIATIVES...Goodbye Jumbo.
Let's get to the big mistake first: Barack Obama should not have agreed to do this. If I were the Senator I'd be looking for a time machine this morning and go back to the day I agreed to show up, change my mind and write this note: "Dear Rick: Thanks for the invitation to appear the same night as my friend John McCain at your church. I get alot of invitations, though, and will be appearing elsewhere that evening."
In other words, Rev. Lynn is advising Obama that it would have been better for him to lie. How Christian. ;)
I totally disagree, pef. Candidates turn down invitations all the time and do wind up appearing elsewhere. Barry Lynn is saying Obama should have passed on this totally fake "debate" where the moderator was clearly biased against him, and also Obama should have made a stand against the church/politics amalgamation that the Saddleback event represented.
I thought him going would be good for people to see his faith
He is more spiritual than McCain
But on issues that touch religious beliefs like abortion is never good for any democrat.
Bottom line, i hoped he would show he's not someone to be feared or that he's the anti-Christ and least give him some respect.
After that night i felt good and but also bad about it.
But today i think it was the best thing ever!
This cheating scandal builds up the questions of McCain's character.
Just one disgusted viewer of this GOP/ religious shame brings another Democratic voter to the table
Let's get to the big mistake first: Barack Obama should not have agreed to do this. If I were the Senator I'd be looking for a time machine this morning and go back to the day I agreed to show up, change my mind and write this note: "Dear Rick: Thanks for the invitation to appear the same night as my friend John McCain at your church. I get alot of invitations, though, and will be appearing elsewhere that evening."
In other words, Rev. Lynn is advising Obama that it would have been better for him to lie. How Christian. ;)
I totally disagree, pef. Candidates turn down invitations all the time and do wind up appearing elsewhere. Barry Lynn is saying Obama should have passed on this totally fake "debate" where the moderator was clearly biased against him, and also Obama should have made a stand against the church/politics amalgamation that the Saddleback event represented.
I thought him going would be good for people to see his faith
He is more spiritual than McCain
But on issues that touch religious beliefs like abortion is never good for any democrat.
Bottom line, i hoped he would show he's not someone to be feared or that he's the anti-Christ and least give him some respect.
After that night i felt good and but also bad about it.
But today i think it was the best thing ever!
This cheating scandal builds up the questions of McCain's character.
Just one disgusted viewer of this GOP/ religious shame brings another Democratic voter to the table
You can't question McCain's character! He's a war hero! When I see him...people want to sing...I want to SING!!!
Gawwwwwwwd Bless A..murrrr...ica...Laaaaand that I loooooooooove....
That forum wasn't a mistake for Obama - he went to what was essentially a McCain convention, and showed them he's not that bad. If this election is a referendum on Obama (as the right wing hacks want you to believe, for some crazy reason), then he proved himself to be quite palatable.
As the Federal Government moves social services to the FAITH BASED INITIATIVES, the Religious Right moves one step closer to being the Federal Government.
Remember Katrina. Bye FEMA...hello FAITH BASED INITIATIVES...Goodbye Jumbo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD4cGH44Ngc
Damn straight. Kurt had it right. What's with the blonde chick...is she there just for eye candy? That's so not alternative music.
80% of the people think the country is totally screwed up, and blame it on Bush. Meanwhile, nearly half the country supports McCain! Same party, same policies, same stupid rich guy, just less hair.
Where is the disconnect? Only in politics would that many people be so oblivious.
I thought him going would be good for people to see his faith
He is more spiritual than McCain
But on issues that touch religious beliefs like abortion is never good for any democrat.
Bottom line, i hoped he would show he's not someone to be feared or that he's the anti-Christ and least give him some respect.
After that night i felt good and but also bad about it.
But today i think it was the best thing ever!
This cheating scandal builds up the questions of McCain's character.
Just one disgusted viewer of this GOP/ religious shame brings another Democratic voter to the table
You can't question McCain's character! He's a war hero! When I see him...people want to sing...I want to SING!!!
Gawwwwwwwd Bless A..murrrr...ica...Laaaaand that I loooooooooove....
Yes, but his response was "Blah blah blah POW"
People are seeing his pattern of exploiting his POW. Veterans are very upset about this.
Have you read my prior posts about our soldiers overseas.
I hope he continues to piss off regular army grunts and veterans.
I totally disagree, pef. Candidates turn down invitations all the time and do wind up appearing elsewhere. Barry Lynn is saying Obama should have passed on this totally fake "debate" where the moderator was clearly biased against him, and also Obama should have made a stand against the church/politics amalgamation that the Saddleback event represented.
I thought him going would be good for people to see his faith
He is more spiritual than McCain
But on issues that touch religious beliefs like abortion is never good for any democrat.
Bottom line, i hoped he would show he's not someone to be feared or that he's the anti-Christ and least give him some respect.
After that night i felt good and but also bad about it.
But today i think it was the best thing ever!
This cheating scandal builds up the questions of McCain's character.
Just one disgusted viewer of this GOP/ religious shame brings another Democratic voter to the table
You can't question McCain's character! He's a war hero! When I see him...people want to sing...I want to SING!!!
Gawwwwwwwd Bless A..murrrr...ica...Laaaaand that I loooooooooove....
Yes, but his response was "Blah blah blah POW"
People are seeing his pattern of exploiting his POW. Veterans are very upset about this.
80% of the people think the country is totally screwed up, and blame it on Bush. Meanwhile, nearly half the country supports McCain! Same party, same policies, same stupid rich guy, just less hair.
Where is the disconnect? Only in politics would that many people be so oblivious.
As the Federal Government moves social services to the FAITH BASED INITIATIVES, the Religious Right moves one step closer to being the Federal Government.
Remember Katrina. Bye FEMA...hello FAITH BASED INITIATIVES...Goodbye Jumbo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD4cGH44Ngc
Damn straight. Kurt had it right. What's with the blonde chick...is she there just for eye candy? That's so not alternative music.
Got to figure some video producer threw her in for the visuals. Got to admit I pretty much had other things to do during the rise and fall of MTV,etc, so I haven't kept current on the video shit. Waterboys and WP were great; too bad they didn't catch on more in the US.
Think about something the next time you watch our very own "state sponsored" news broadcasts here in the U.S.
Any station you watch that is still claiming "Russia invaded Georgia", well that is White House propaganda.
CNN, MSNBC are both now guilty of this, and clearly taking their marching orders from Washington.
This country makes me sick, even sicker that a vast majority of our population buys into all this crap as if it were fact.
At this point in time, I believe there is no hope whatsoever for the future of our country.
We all stood by and did nothing for the past 7 years, and now we will have to sleep in the bed we made.
good post. Its all Mockingbird on steroids.
Last night on the evening news there was a live report from Georgia. In the background, someone spray painted "STOP RUSSIA" in English.
Kinda strange, eh?
80% of the people think the country is totally screwed up, and blame it on Bush. Meanwhile, nearly half the country supports McCain! Same party, same policies, same stupid rich guy, just less hair.
Where is the disconnect? Only in politics would that many people be so oblivious.
The disconnect is quite simple. People love war stories, and stories about the birth of our nation. They love to listen to them in the comfort of their home or apartment, in front of their big screen tv, making believe that they are "making it" and that all is right with the world, so long as the brown people know their place and they're little jobs are safe.
Things are not bad enuf. People don't want to see what's wrong. They are afraid of it. They are afraid of the status quo being changed. Look at fuel...over $4...the country was reeeeal unhappy. Where is fuel now? At $3.50 - $37? High enough to keep the oil companies happy and low enough to stop the public bitching. Hmmm...funny how that worked out. Huh.
We are a country of stupid people. We are fat, lazy and ignorant. Unless the pain gets worse, they will stick with what they know. The media is changing what they know....slowly and methodically...at the behest of the masters. The public is being conditioned to accept declining living standards. They are being conditioned to not care about their neighbors, so long as they're own children are fed and their homes heated. They are conditioned to see anyone who is not "them", as the enemy.
It's all around us, and it is happening because people don't WANT to see that it is happening. It's too painful, to scarey. So, I'll just put on American Idol.
80% of the people think the country is totally screwed up, and blame it on Bush. Meanwhile, nearly half the country supports McCain! Same party, same policies, same stupid rich guy, just less hair.
Where is the disconnect? Only in politics would that many people be so oblivious.
I don't think it's a disconnect as much as it is good ole fashioned irrationality based on ignorance, fear and stupidity.
I hope most people saw this thing as it was...I tried to approach it with an open mind, hoping that a Christian would have the morals and values that would require he be fair minded and even handed. However I find that most Christians are fake. They say one thing but do something else. The use Jesus as a doormat to wipe their sins on as if it didn't matter.
Me, I'm an atheist and I am very true to my values. I believe (as the myth they call Jesus used to preach) in the Golden Rule. I try me best to treat others as I should be treated, and I forgive the petty shit. I will still stand up for myself when needed but mostly I try to live a humble life.
But these idiots think their better then be "because they have God", the trouble is this same excuse makes them think they can do what they want without consequence.
Secular humanists, Sermon-On-The-Mount Christians and most atheists and agnostics take the Golden Rule as the foundation of our interactions with others.
Magic-Word-Christians ("I-said-the-magic-words-and-now-I'm-saved") are amoral; they are "saved" regardless their behavior here on Earth. They expect their reward elsewhere and many of them have no qualms about creating Hell On Earth if it furthers their agenda.
To their credit some Magic-Word-Christians also take the Golden Rule as the foundation of their interactions with others. But in my experience most of them limit their practice of the Golden Rule to "their own" - their own family, neighbors, fellow church members, race or nation. The "other" is still "other" to them, and killing (or lying or cheating, etc) is OK if it furthers their agenda.
Last night on the evening news there was a live report from Georgia. In the background, someone spray painted "STOP RUSSIA" in English.
Kinda strange, eh?
Targeting their audience, the American people? Weird.
Last night on the evening news there was a live report from Georgia. In the background, someone spray painted "STOP RUSSIA" in English.
Kinda strange, eh?
Targeting their audience, the American people? Weird.
I'm surprised it didn't say "President McCain, Help Us!"
10 Weeks of Hell: Afghanistan Death Rate Exceeding Highest of Iraq War
Afghanistan is now deadlier than Iraq ever was.
When the Iraq War reached its deadliest peak during a 10-week period in April, May, and June of 2007, 308 coalition troops died. That was 1 out of every 575 troops on the ground at the time.* It was a terrible period in which even the most die-hard Bush supporters began to question the sense in continuing the occupation. By contrast, 105 coalition troops have died in Afghanistan during the past 10 weeks. But because there are only 52,700 troops in Afghanistan, this represents 1 out of every 502 troops on the ground.
The war in Iraq--at its most violent peak--was never as dangerous for our troops as Afghanistan now is. In the past 10 weeks, three American soldiers have been captured, killed, and chopped up. Nine American soldiers were killed in a single instance when their outpost was overrun by Taliban militants. And today, the violence only intensified: 10 French soldiers were slaughtered in an ambush, with four of them being captured and subsequently executed. Around the same time, Afghan insurgents launched a coordinated attack on a major U.S. base.
The fatality rate in Afghanistan during the past 10 weeks would be equivalent to 353 deaths in Iraq at the same time--a rate not even seen during the bloody crescendo of 2007.
This is a crisis.
* = The surge reached its peak in early summer 2007 and there were at least 177,000 coalition troops present.
80% of the people think the country is totally screwed up, and blame it on Bush. Meanwhile, nearly half the country supports McCain! Same party, same policies, same stupid rich guy, just less hair.
Where is the disconnect? Only in politics would that many people be so oblivious.
The disconnect is quite simple. People love war stories, and stories about the birth of our nation. They love to listen to them in the comfort of their home or apartment, in front of their big screen tv, making believe that they are "making it" and that all is right with the world, so long as the brown people know their place and they're little jobs are safe.
Things are not bad enuf. People don't want to see what's wrong. They are afraid of it. They are afraid of the status quo being changed. Look at fuel...over $4...the country was reeeeal unhappy. Where is fuel now? At $3.50 - $37? High enough to keep the oil companies happy and low enough to stop the public bitching. Hmmm...funny how that worked out. Huh.
We are a country of stupid people. We are fat, lazy and ignorant. Unless the pain gets worse, they will stick with what they know. The media is changing what they know....slowly and methodically...at the behest of the masters. The public is being conditioned to accept declining living standards. They are being conditioned to not care about their neighbors, so long as they're own children are fed and their homes heated. They are conditioned to see anyone who is not "them", as the enemy.
It's all around us, and it is happening because people don't WANT to see that it is happening. It's too painful, to scarey. So, I'll just put on American Idol.
Mon, 08/18/2008 - 15:20 — Move on people, nothing to see here. (not verified)
I am just irritated by the need for candidates to establish their moral chops though "Jesus". and his teachings (or those that have been ascribed to him over the millenniums.
I learned everything I needed from my Dad and some other very good men who took the time to talk to (invest in) in me as a young boy/young man. Roughly ten very different men had a major impact on me and taught me how to respect/treat others as you respect yourself, or to live as a "man". None of them, to my knowledge, were particularly religious, at least that is not how they presented themselves. This does not mean that women did not have an impact, I'm just highlighting the men that did. So when I get that question from anyone, "If you could have lunch with anyone in world history", it would be my Dad who passed away when I was 27, to tell him simply "Thanks, what you taught me has taken me through life well, didn't even notice you doing it".
If you have a chance to tell someone that now, do it now.
Heads were broken for unions to be formed. Heads were broken for racial equality...and the fight is still going on. I'm not advocating violence, but unfortunately, change is painful, difficult and ugly.
Yup. Look at Europe. No, seriously. Look at Europe. Sad fact is, more than anything, Americans (right or left) have been indoctrinated to believe that nothing can (and in some cases, should) change. Part of that indoctrination is the fact that in American politics, you can't look at Europe. Because it's 'unpatriotic'. Or because 'it wouldn't work here'. Because 'Europeans are different'. Or perhaps because 'It doesn't work there'. The impending demise of the European welfare state is a standard in American punditry. Europe's been 'doomed' for decades. (Yet.. their economies look a lot better than ours right now) Even progressive reporting on Europe is plagued with the spoken or unspoken assumption that It wouldn't work here.
As if the current state of affairs in Europe 'just happened'. Like mushrooms out of the ground. As if their progressives and left-wingers didn't fight, strike and vote for their systems for decades. Or as if it were a matter of culture. As if Germany had a more liberal history than the USA.
In my view, the fight for change must go alongside the fight against American Exceptionalism. We've got to take off the blinds and realize that, yes, change is possible - it's happened elsewhere, why not here? We've got to realize that the challenges facing the US may in fact have been solved elsewhere. The USA has a great history of being a bright example of the virtues of democracy and freedom in the world. But that does not mean we're allowed to rest on those laurels. It doesn't mean there isn't something we might be able to learn from someone else.
That's my view. If we want change, we've got to fight those who refuse to believe in change. And that also means fighting those who ignore the examples of change from other parts of the world. And those people exist across the political spectrum in the US.
Did Georgian troops fight with smuggled German guns?
Elite Georgian soldiers fighting in South Ossetia were illegally armed with German HK G36 assault rifles, according to reports.
The ‘Report Mainz’ programme, made by German public broadcaster ARD, showed images of Georgian soldiers with German-made assault rifles slung over their shoulders.
It’s not clear how the guns ended up in the war zone. All arms export in Germany must meet certain criteria to be approved by the Government. Its laws state that exporting arms to conflict zones is banned.
But the German Economics Ministry insisted it never issued a permit for the arms export to Georgia and suggested they must have been supplied illegally.
The weapons producer Heckler & Koch refused to comment
Truth or a lie but currently just a Rumor but conspiracy theorist heads are exploding
Bugged Telephone Call Reveals Shocking NATO Involvement...Georgian President Praises Financial Times’s Role In Propaganda War
Ukrainian press got ahold of secretly recorded telephone conversations between Ukraine's pro-Western president Viktor Yuschenko and his pro-Western counterpart in Georgia, Mikhail Saakashvili about current events
Truth or a lie but currently just a Rumor but conspiracy theorist heads are exploding
Bugged Telephone Call Reveals Shocking NATO Involvement...Georgian President Praises Financial Times’s Role In Propaganda War
Ukrainian press got ahold of secretly recorded telephone conversations between Ukraine's pro-Western president Viktor Yuschenko and his pro-Western counterpart in Georgia, Mikhail Saakashvili about current events
What gets me is McCain saying his biggest moral lapse "was the failure of my first marriage". The marriage didn't fail. Cindy and he killed his first marriage, by cheating on his wife and going for Cindy (what half sister?). Cindy the whore went along with it. He made it sound like his first marriage was failing on it's own but he could have done more to save it but didn't. It's all such a crock.
I hope most people saw this thing as it was...I tried to approach it with an open mind, hoping that a Christian would have the morals and values that would require he be fair minded and even handed. However I find that most Christians are fake. They say one thing but do something else. The use Jesus as a doormat to wipe their sins on as if it didn't matter.
Me, I'm an atheist and I am very true to my values. I believe (as the myth they call Jesus used to preach) in the Golden Rule. I try me best to treat others as I should be treated, and I forgive the petty shit. I will still stand up for myself when needed but mostly I try to live a humble life.
But these idiots think their better then be "because they have God", the trouble is this same excuse makes them think they can do what they want without consequence.
man, i just want to say 'amen' to that.
i just came across this article in the austin american statesman:
i thought i remember keith saying he was a dem a long time ago but there was recently a story here at C&L reporting that he was a 'lynching' advocate and suggesting a link to obama somehow...
now, i'm in no way a fan of toby keith's music, but i guess i can now go back to being happy about all the rednecks he can convert.
(btw, didn't read the whole thread, apologies if this is old news...;)
Be very careful about this. Since that moron bigot Carter, who is always in the running with Bush for worst President, has endorsed Obama, many might think that this card is an anti-Obama slogan.
...and how about the obvious set-up with the question regarding vast amounts of orphans.
Has anyone heard of this disasterous problem mentioned before during this campaign?
The question was asked in order to present old man Mcsame as a compassionate, orphan toting, kind man.
I suppose if the fossil could get an erection, he wouldn't need to buy his political accessories.
Let's get to the big mistake first: Barack Obama should not have agreed to do this. If I were the Senator I'd be looking for a time machine this morning and go back to the day I agreed to show up, change my mind and write this note: "Dear Rick: Thanks for the invitation to appear the same night as my friend John McCain at your church. I get alot of invitations, though, and will be appearing elsewhere that evening."
In other words, Rev. Lynn is advising Obama that it would have been better for him to lie. How Christian. ;)
Get a life asshole. You don't like what you read and you attack. There is no suggestion to lie, like McCain usually does. Just a polite way to say fuck off.
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Great pic!
heh heh heh :)
Barry Lynn says:
Let's get to the big mistake first: Barack Obama should not have agreed to do this. If I were the Senator I'd be looking for a time machine this morning and go back to the day I agreed to show up, change my mind and write this note: "Dear Rick: Thanks for the invitation to appear the same night as my friend John McCain at your church. I get alot of invitations, though, and will be appearing elsewhere that evening."
In other words, Rev. Lynn is advising Obama that it would have been better for him to lie. How Christian. ;)
Glenn Greenwald hits it out of the park today. Well almost everyday
Condi "mushroom cloud" Rice speaks. Who listens?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/19/rice/
Bmaz and William Ockham been hitting it out of the park for days now at highly respected Emptywheel's (headed to the DEm Convention) blog over at Firedoglake
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/
Just want to mention that I have been volunteering in Colorado for the last week for the Dems. In the last three days I have met four Republicans (two middle aged women, on WWII Vet and an retired teacher)who have all jumped from the Republicans ship and are volunteering for the Dems in Denver.
Let's keep pushing hard for ACCOUNTABILITY NOW folks the thinking Republicans are pushing too. We have to push the Dems hard too.
Think about something the next time you watch our very own "state sponsored" news broadcasts here in the U.S.
Any station you watch that is still claiming "Russia invaded Georgia", well that is White House propaganda.
CNN, MSNBC are both now guilty of this, and clearly taking their marching orders from Washington.
This country makes me sick, even sicker that a vast majority of our population buys into all this crap as if it were fact.
At this point in time, I believe there is no hope whatsoever for the future of our country.
We all stood by and did nothing for the past 7 years, and now we will have to sleep in the bed we made.
I can't wait to send the Ramadan cards to my Muslim friends!
I hope most people saw this thing as it was...I tried to approach it with an open mind, hoping that a Christian would have the morals and values that would require he be fair minded and even handed. However I find that most Christians are fake. They say one thing but do something else. The use Jesus as a doormat to wipe their sins on as if it didn't matter.
Me, I'm an atheist and I am very true to my values. I believe (as the myth they call Jesus used to preach) in the Golden Rule. I try me best to treat others as I should be treated, and I forgive the petty shit. I will still stand up for myself when needed but mostly I try to live a humble life.
But these idiots think their better then be "because they have God", the trouble is this same excuse makes them think they can do what they want without consequence.
Its almost obvious now that this "forum" was skewed to make Sen. McCain look smarter than he really is. He doesn't strike me as religious (point in his favor in my book but I don't vote based on faith) but he may very well be the current darling of the Religious Right. The phrasing of the questions and the absence of Sen. McCain from the "cone of silence" threw this whole forum into the trash can and showed, once again that the right (not necessarily the Religious Right but the gestaldt right) will do what ever it takes to win elections but it doesn't give a damn about ethics.
Sorry. As I was saying--PEF @ 3--How do you know Obama wasn't going to be appearing somewhere else that night, like maybe in his own living room? It's false equivalence to insist Barry Lynn stick to the absolute truth, while allowing McCaint's reverend whatsisname to flat-out lie about McC.'s being held where he could not hear the questions or Obama's answers.
Particularly when it was obvious from McC's answers that he had access to the questions in advance. To clarify: Lynn's "lie" was a social white lie, while that televangelist and McCain's lies went to the heart of the entire session.
Cafferty is an equal opportunity hater (as close as you can get to balanced), but he REALLY doesn't like McCain.
Cafferty: Is McCain Another Bush? (Yes)
Transcript
We are fighting against evil in this election.
The GOP have no soul, no conscience. They are attempting to wear us down, to make us despair, or to overreact to an endless assault of lies, character assassinations, veiled racism, bigotry, insults and contempt for good.
We cannot let them win. We can't stop. We must endure. At the risk of sounding terribly cliched, the night is darkest before the dawn. This can't go on. Daylight will come.
I can tell from some of the posts in the other threads that people are becoming disheartened, angry and resigned to fate.
We can't be that way. It is what THEY want and are counting on.
Obama did nothing wrong...He was an honest broker in this rigged bullshit. Warren and the old man cheated: clearly playing with fixed decks. As long as the debates are fair Obama will exact revenge by exposing and humiliating this unworthy fraud.
Just read where NATO is crying about the Russians not living up to some cease fire
terms. I got news for NATO. You put ABM Treaty violating defensive missles in Poland, Russia grabs hold of your oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Basin. I wonder when Europe will tell the Americans to go home. Nato threatens to poke Russia in the eye, Russia grabs them by the balls and gives a good hard squeeze. I wonder how many Russian cruise missles are targeted at Suadi Arabia, Qatar, UEA etc. etc. etc.....
As the Federal Government moves social services to the FAITH BASED INITIATIVES, the Religious Right moves one step closer to being the Federal Government.
Remember Katrina. Bye FEMA...hello FAITH BASED INITIATIVES...Goodbye Jumbo.
I still think the Bushies blew Katrina so they could turn FEMA over to the theocrats.
Very funnee pic but kind of scary when you think of all those doe-in-the-headlight types...
peaceful easy feeling @ 3:
I totally disagree, pef. Candidates turn down invitations all the time and do wind up appearing elsewhere. Barry Lynn is saying Obama should have passed on this totally fake "debate" where the moderator was clearly biased against him, and also Obama should have made a stand against the church/politics amalgamation that the Saddleback event represented.
Liberal AND Proud @ 12:
The only problem here, is that there is no difference between Mccain and Obama. They both answer to the military industrial complex.
And why should we have to wait for anything? We have a sitting President who is blatant violation of countless domestic and international laws, a proven war criminal, and yet our Congress absolutely refuses to act on it. Pelosi needs to be tried for treason herself. How dare she let such blatant criminality run amuck in our capital, and still claim "off the table". She is nothing less than a traitor.
There is no hope. There hasn't been any hope for a very long time.
You want people to feel empowered again? Post the pictures of GW Bush and anyone even remotely associated with him, in orange jumpsuits while standing trial for crimes against humanity.
Then and only then, will people regain trust in gov't.
senate roll call to increase vet. medical care funds.
mccain n.....obama y
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...
Everyone who didn't vote for Al Gore in 2000 needs to apologise to the nation and then the rest of the world.
See what you went and did here?
Rick Warren, the Glen Beck of mega churches, just smarter.
I have to say, Obama seems to want to bring Georgia into NATO. And I'm a bit worried about that. They were rejected for good reason.
Besides, what the heck is NATO good for anyway? It's outlived its time and should be disbanded. Is the USA _really_ going to go to war over (say) Hungary? They had their moment of truth in that matter back in '56.
And I'd sure as heck give better odds on Greece and Turkey fighting a war against each other rather than with.
I'm BUSHED.
Anthrax & Public Enemy - Bring The Noise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoLkaGcpJFA&feature=related
Help Show the World.. www.CindyforCongress.org
After 2+ plus years of an endless campaign I'm completely baffled as to how it is that the American voter is to be comfortable with getting a little over 2 months with the Vice-Presidential choice of either candidate.
It's like a mackerel by moonlight, it shines, and it stinks.
~Nyc
SlaveryIsFreedom @ 17:
No hope? Ok, when are you scheduling the mass suicide?
Posting pictures of GW Bush is not going to affect the method and context of the message that is being sent.
As for Obama and McCain being the same. Sorry, that's too easy. I grant that corporations have power in government, but that has always been tempered by the power of the people. This is America, and we can still demand change and get it...if we really want to.
The Founding Fathers are watching...and so are our children.
Ok, now you've got me started.
Heads were broken for unions to be formed. Heads were broken for racial equality...and the fight is still going on. I'm not advocating violence, but unfortunately, change is painful, difficult and ugly.
If we are willing to just lay down and take it, then nothing will change.
Where were the important questions that I wanted asked?
Do you believe that dinosaurs & man walked the earth and lived together a few thousand years ago?
Do you believe that the earth is thousands, millions or billions of years old?
Do you believe that intelligent design should be taught in schools as a science?
The list goes on.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Sojourner's Presidential Forum in June of 2007 pretty much outline the faiths of our Democratic candidates well enough?
I realize Obama has had prior dealing with Rick Warren, but this whole Saddleback affair seems more of a red herring in light of this.
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 14:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD4cGH44Ngc
bluegal @ 17:
I thought him going would be good for people to see his faith
He is more spiritual than McCain
But on issues that touch religious beliefs like abortion is never good for any democrat.
Bottom line, i hoped he would show he's not someone to be feared or that he's the anti-Christ and least give him some respect.
After that night i felt good and but also bad about it.
But today i think it was the best thing ever!
This cheating scandal builds up the questions of McCain's character.
Just one disgusted viewer of this GOP/ religious shame brings another Democratic voter to the table
john j @ 30:
You can't question McCain's character! He's a war hero! When I see him...people want to sing...I want to SING!!!
Gawwwwwwwd Bless A..murrrr...ica...Laaaaand that I loooooooooove....
Moby & Public Enemy - Make Love Fuck War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUPrvqnBxHM&feature=related
*After that night i felt good but also bad about it.
That forum wasn't a mistake for Obama - he went to what was essentially a McCain convention, and showed them he's not that bad. If this election is a referendum on Obama (as the right wing hacks want you to believe, for some crazy reason), then he proved himself to be quite palatable.
fastfeat @ 30:
Damn straight. Kurt had it right. What's with the blonde chick...is she there just for eye candy? That's so not alternative music.
SlaveryIsFreedom @ 5:
good post. Its all Mockingbird on steroids.
Large US bank will collapse soon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7569903.stm
Canadian casualties in Afghanistan
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/14/f-afghan-analyze.html
There are 11 weeks left before the election.
Do you know where your candidate is?
The end of "Freddie" and "Fannie" will signal the end of universal home ownership in America.
L & P @26,
80% of the people think the country is totally screwed up, and blame it on Bush. Meanwhile, nearly half the country supports McCain! Same party, same policies, same stupid rich guy, just less hair.
Where is the disconnect? Only in politics would that many people be so oblivious.
john j @ 41:
Have you read my prior posts about our soldiers overseas.
I hope he continues to piss off regular army grunts and veterans.
Liberal AND Proud @ 32:
Yes, but his response was "Blah blah blah POW"
People are seeing his pattern of exploiting his POW. Veterans are very upset about this.
moveon.org putting big money in this ad
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/08/moveon_sinking_5...
Now dishonesty is a virtue they call hard-ball.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 41:
And a majority of people think God's intervention can revive the dying.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/ap_on_he_me/med_god_vs_doctors_7
I don't think it's a disconnect as much as good ole fashioned irrationality based on ignorance, fear and stupidity.
"Tell the Children the Truth Right Now" ~ Bob Marley
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 36:
Got to figure some video producer threw her in for the visuals. Got to admit I pretty much had other things to do during the rise and fall of MTV,etc, so I haven't kept current on the video shit. Waterboys and WP were great; too bad they didn't catch on more in the US.
Truth B Told @ 37:
Last night on the evening news there was a live report from Georgia. In the background, someone spray painted "STOP RUSSIA" in English.
Kinda strange, eh?
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 41:
The disconnect is quite simple. People love war stories, and stories about the birth of our nation. They love to listen to them in the comfort of their home or apartment, in front of their big screen tv, making believe that they are "making it" and that all is right with the world, so long as the brown people know their place and they're little jobs are safe.
Things are not bad enuf. People don't want to see what's wrong. They are afraid of it. They are afraid of the status quo being changed. Look at fuel...over $4...the country was reeeeal unhappy. Where is fuel now? At $3.50 - $37? High enough to keep the oil companies happy and low enough to stop the public bitching. Hmmm...funny how that worked out. Huh.
We are a country of stupid people. We are fat, lazy and ignorant. Unless the pain gets worse, they will stick with what they know. The media is changing what they know....slowly and methodically...at the behest of the masters. The public is being conditioned to accept declining living standards. They are being conditioned to not care about their neighbors, so long as they're own children are fed and their homes heated. They are conditioned to see anyone who is not "them", as the enemy.
It's all around us, and it is happening because people don't WANT to see that it is happening. It's too painful, to scarey. So, I'll just put on American Idol.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 41:
I don't think it's a disconnect as much as it is good ole fashioned irrationality based on ignorance, fear and stupidity.
Liberal AND Proud @ 40:
As a renter, I had been living in my own universe for so long. Looks like it's gonna get crowded...
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 7:
Secular humanists, Sermon-On-The-Mount Christians and most atheists and agnostics take the Golden Rule as the foundation of our interactions with others.
Magic-Word-Christians ("I-said-the-magic-words-and-now-I'm-saved") are amoral; they are "saved" regardless their behavior here on Earth. They expect their reward elsewhere and many of them have no qualms about creating Hell On Earth if it furthers their agenda.
To their credit some Magic-Word-Christians also take the Golden Rule as the foundation of their interactions with others. But in my experience most of them limit their practice of the Golden Rule to "their own" - their own family, neighbors, fellow church members, race or nation. The "other" is still "other" to them, and killing (or lying or cheating, etc) is OK if it furthers their agenda.
raye @ 48:
Targeting their audience, the American people? Weird.
Brad @ 53:
I'm surprised it didn't say "President McCain, Help Us!"
*Really Bad From VoteVets
10 Weeks of Hell: Afghanistan Death Rate Exceeding Highest of Iraq War
Afghanistan is now deadlier than Iraq ever was.
When the Iraq War reached its deadliest peak during a 10-week period in April, May, and June of 2007, 308 coalition troops died. That was 1 out of every 575 troops on the ground at the time.* It was a terrible period in which even the most die-hard Bush supporters began to question the sense in continuing the occupation. By contrast, 105 coalition troops have died in Afghanistan during the past 10 weeks. But because there are only 52,700 troops in Afghanistan, this represents 1 out of every 502 troops on the ground.
The war in Iraq--at its most violent peak--was never as dangerous for our troops as Afghanistan now is. In the past 10 weeks, three American soldiers have been captured, killed, and chopped up. Nine American soldiers were killed in a single instance when their outpost was overrun by Taliban militants. And today, the violence only intensified: 10 French soldiers were slaughtered in an ambush, with four of them being captured and subsequently executed. Around the same time, Afghan insurgents launched a coordinated attack on a major U.S. base.
The fatality rate in Afghanistan during the past 10 weeks would be equivalent to 353 deaths in Iraq at the same time--a rate not even seen during the bloody crescendo of 2007.
This is a crisis.
* = The surge reached its peak in early summer 2007 and there were at least 177,000 coalition troops present.
Liberal AND Proud @ 49:
And don't forget to go shopping.
Al Franken interviews Brent Mydland of the Grateful Dead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oBwGzGlTlY&feature=related
Jerry Garcia Interview by Al Franken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KldqYNV2Hwg&feature=related
Al Franken - Help Jerry's Kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZiy0A1eEU8&feature=related
Grateful Dead trivia question - Al Franken and Tom Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alO2cUYs-6g&feature=related
I'm leaning toward voting "Independent".
Neither of those Militaristic, corporate, Financial controlled
whores will get my vote.
I sleep well at night.
I am just irritated by the need for candidates to establish their moral chops though "Jesus". and his teachings (or those that have been ascribed to him over the millenniums.
I learned everything I needed from my Dad and some other very good men who took the time to talk to (invest in) in me as a young boy/young man. Roughly ten very different men had a major impact on me and taught me how to respect/treat others as you respect yourself, or to live as a "man". None of them, to my knowledge, were particularly religious, at least that is not how they presented themselves. This does not mean that women did not have an impact, I'm just highlighting the men that did. So when I get that question from anyone, "If you could have lunch with anyone in world history", it would be my Dad who passed away when I was 27, to tell him simply "Thanks, what you taught me has taken me through life well, didn't even notice you doing it".
If you have a chance to tell someone that now, do it now.
Liberal AND Proud @ 27:
Yup. Look at Europe. No, seriously. Look at Europe. Sad fact is, more than anything, Americans (right or left) have been indoctrinated to believe that nothing can (and in some cases, should) change. Part of that indoctrination is the fact that in American politics, you can't look at Europe. Because it's 'unpatriotic'. Or because 'it wouldn't work here'. Because 'Europeans are different'. Or perhaps because 'It doesn't work there'. The impending demise of the European welfare state is a standard in American punditry. Europe's been 'doomed' for decades. (Yet.. their economies look a lot better than ours right now) Even progressive reporting on Europe is plagued with the spoken or unspoken assumption that It wouldn't work here.
As if the current state of affairs in Europe 'just happened'. Like mushrooms out of the ground. As if their progressives and left-wingers didn't fight, strike and vote for their systems for decades. Or as if it were a matter of culture. As if Germany had a more liberal history than the USA.
In my view, the fight for change must go alongside the fight against American Exceptionalism. We've got to take off the blinds and realize that, yes, change is possible - it's happened elsewhere, why not here? We've got to realize that the challenges facing the US may in fact have been solved elsewhere. The USA has a great history of being a bright example of the virtues of democracy and freedom in the world. But that does not mean we're allowed to rest on those laurels. It doesn't mean there isn't something we might be able to learn from someone else.
That's my view. If we want change, we've got to fight those who refuse to believe in change. And that also means fighting those who ignore the examples of change from other parts of the world. And those people exist across the political spectrum in the US.
Nothing was ever accomplished from the seat cushion of a La-Z-boy.
Did Georgian troops fight with smuggled German guns?
Elite Georgian soldiers fighting in South Ossetia were illegally armed with German HK G36 assault rifles, according to reports.
The ‘Report Mainz’ programme, made by German public broadcaster ARD, showed images of Georgian soldiers with German-made assault rifles slung over their shoulders.
It’s not clear how the guns ended up in the war zone. All arms export in Germany must meet certain criteria to be approved by the Government. Its laws state that exporting arms to conflict zones is banned.
But the German Economics Ministry insisted it never issued a permit for the arms export to Georgia and suggested they must have been supplied illegally.
The weapons producer Heckler & Koch refused to comment
tx @ 63:
Link?
Truth or a lie but currently just a Rumor
but conspiracy theorist heads are exploding
Bugged Telephone Call Reveals Shocking NATO Involvement...Georgian President Praises Financial Times’s Role In Propaganda War
Ukrainian press got ahold of secretly recorded telephone conversations between Ukraine's pro-Western president Viktor Yuschenko and his pro-Western counterpart in Georgia, Mikhail Saakashvili about current events
Condi basically came out today with a statement that fell only thisshort of calling Georgia a NATO ally.
Of course, 75% of the American public doesn't know what N.A.T.O stands for, and a majority of the remaining 25% can't spell it.
Jerry Garcia & David Grisman - Two Soldiers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8GZvoWY9yo&feature=related
wheeee @ 66:
That was awesome. Thanks.
What gets me is McCain saying his biggest moral lapse "was the failure of my first marriage". The marriage didn't fail. Cindy and he killed his first marriage, by cheating on his wife and going for Cindy (what half sister?). Cindy the whore went along with it. He made it sound like his first marriage was failing on it's own but he could have done more to save it but didn't. It's all such a crock.
Liberal AND Proud @ 61:
Before the internet. Since then.. Dan Rather was taken down. Among other numerous things.
Orangutan. @ 67:
:)
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 7:
man, i just want to say 'amen' to that.
i just came across this article in the austin american statesman:
http://www.austin360.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Recordings/People_Ke...
i thought i remember keith saying he was a dem a long time ago but there was recently a story here at C&L reporting that he was a 'lynching' advocate and suggesting a link to obama somehow...
now, i'm in no way a fan of toby keith's music, but i guess i can now go back to being happy about all the rednecks he can convert.
(btw, didn't read the whole thread, apologies if this is old news...;)
.
Iraqis buy billions in U.S. arms
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2008-08-18-iraqtanks_N.htm?loc=int...
Who paid for the developement, research, and building of these tanks?
Who gets to keep the money off of these sales?
What's the tax charged on these sales?
Will we need BETTER, more expensive tanks, to defend ourselves from these, "hell, everybody's got "em now" war machines?
Did'nt we sell to O.B.L.? Sadam?
Is this profitable sale in any way going to the Carlsyle Group?
Are any politicians directly or indirectly profitting?
This NWO stuff is so complicated. It's like brain "shock and awe" to figure out.
The verdict is in: The Verdict is out. Rachel Maddow will replace Dan Abrams next month with her very own MSNBC show.
Those 'someecards' are a hoot.
Rachel Maddow gets her own show now? This day just keeps getting better and better.
Be very careful about this. Since that moron bigot Carter, who is always in the running with Bush for worst President, has endorsed Obama, many might think that this card is an anti-Obama slogan.
Jimmy Carter is a moron bigot ? Sorry, rj, I respectfully disagree with you.
...and how about the obvious set-up with the question regarding vast amounts of orphans.
Has anyone heard of this disasterous problem mentioned before during this campaign?
The question was asked in order to present old man Mcsame as a compassionate, orphan toting, kind man.
I suppose if the fossil could get an erection, he wouldn't need to buy his political accessories.
peaceful easy feeling @ 3:
Get a life asshole. You don't like what you read and you attack. There is no suggestion to lie, like McCain usually does. Just a polite way to say fuck off.
exactamundo...no more bushies or bush-lites, or mcsames....no more neocons, EVER.
Hi all!
G'night
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