Bush proposes new abortion rules
AP:
The Bush administration on Thursday proposed stronger job protections for doctors and other health care workers who refuse to participate in abortions because of religious or moral objections.
Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt said that health care professionals should not face retaliation from employers or from medical societies because they object to abortion.
Abortion foes called it a victory for the First Amendment, but abortion rights supporters said they feared the rule could stretch the definition of abortion to include birth control, and served notice that they intend to challenge the administration.
The ACLU released this statement:
"It's deeply troubling and unfortunate that President Bush should fire this parting shot at women's access to basic health care in the waning days of his administration," said Vania Leveille, ACLU Legislative Counsel. "Time and time again, he has put political and ideological concerns above the best interests of the American people, and this is yet another example.
"We continue to be very concerned about the scope and impact of this proposed rule. It leaves open the possibility that institutions and individuals can deny access to birth control and permits individuals to refuse to provide even counseling about basic heath care services."
I'm sure the timing of this has nothing whatsoever to do with the upcoming election. It's surely just a coincidence that this wedge issue rears its ugly head just in time to fire up the right-wing lunatics who otherwise would have no reason to come out and vote. It's not like Republicans use the issue of abortion for political gain every four years or anything.
Like anyone wants to hear Bush's new "idea"'s?
PRICK.
Will this country survive anti-science religious bigots?
Just another instance of Bush trying to impose his religious cult ideas on the rest of America, justified in his chemically imbalanced mind by a rigged election. Utterly sad. I am often disappointed that I will not live long enough to see the damage that George W. Bush has done to our country and constitution completely reverse in my lifetime.
The terrorists that bombed The Planned Parenthood Offices in the USA must be amused with Bush's actions.
I expect nothing better from Bush. Half of me is pissed off and the other half wants to sit back with a beer and watch while McCain tries to distance himself, which may be especially difficult after his little pro-life proclamation last weekend.
What a better world this would be if H. W. Bush had used some birth control many years ago. Thousands of people would be alive today that are now instead dead.
Any doctor who refuses sound medical treatment should lose their license to practice medicine. Period. That includes imposing their religious beliefs on their patients in a fashion that can be classified as detrimental to the patient.
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When Religion begins to inform the People's politics...
... You then have the ground work for a Theocracy.
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What is an Ayatollah but a president that dictates Law according to religious scripture?
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Don't want to perform abortions? Don't work somewhere they are performed. That was pretty easy. Don't want to be an abortionist? Then don't work for Planned Parenthood :)
another classic example of faith based tax dodging. life begins at conception and finishes at birth.
Apu @ 3:
I don't know. Honestly, I don't know.
I hope so, because I like my country.
I just wish I could be more proud of it these days.
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Next the Bush Ayatollah will issue the edict that Pharmacists can refuse contraception based on religious beliefs.
Oh... that's in the works.
Well, how about the Bush Ayatollah's edict that Pastors and Priests can refuse to perform marriages between same sex couples?
Oh... that's in the works.
Then will the Bush Ayatollah issue an edict related to fish or pork?
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What Bush meant is: "Preserve the fetus and kill it on the battle field."
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It must suck having these term limits. It does not provide an out if the Presidency is a fail. An epic one. He should have resigned a long time ago.
Four years must seem like a prison sentence for you guys. My sincere sympathy for y'all. Must be rough.
..... along the lines of priests not marrying same-sex couples why not have churches refuse to marry mixed-race couples. There has got to be something somewhere in religious text which would allow someone to object because they believe it would violate the tenets they hold dear. By allowing people to object to LEGAL practises based on religion aren't we opening the door up for much more discrimination based on adherence to this sort of dogma? Bless this country.
No one should ever have to act against the dictates of their conscience. I don't see what is so offensive about that principle...the same one that guides conscientious objectors in the military. I agree that Bush is not really "pro-life" in any deep meaning of that phrase and that Republicans exploit this complex and divisive issue only for political purposes. But as a society, we should honor and protect the primacy of each person's conscience.
This "crackdown" is not really about "religion." Neither Bush nor most of the people who work in the Bush administration and all of the mega-church preachers are actual Christians - they are just pretend Christians. They are power-hungry, arrogant misogynists.
This might be a good time for Hillary to use her popularity/notoriety for good: to speak up and actually ensure that the Democrats come together to keep these neo-con, fake Christians from futher eroding the rights of women and everyone's civel rights.
You think the guy humping the line at GM can oppose his job duties if he thinks GM should make more fuel efficient cars?
F that noise. You take the job, you do the work. Plain and simple. If you want to whine and complain because you don't like the work, then quit. Get out of that line of work.
If women are not already doing it, they may want to consider moving to other countries when people are more enlightened. I am researching what it would take for me, my daughters, sisters and friends.
It’s not like Republicans use the issue of abortion for political gain every four years or anything.
yeah, it's not like they had absolute power for 6 years to ram through whatever they wanted, but they never seemed to do anything about their 2 key issues: Gay Marriage and Abortion. no, they couldn't could they? then they would have nothing to talk about except for 9/11 and that's starting to seem like a long time ago.
I just fear the Repug's will be willing to attack us again just to scare the masses to vote for McCain, for whatever reason they would.
robbyhusseinmack @ 17:
A government forcing churchs to act in ways that are contrary to their views would be in gross violation of seperation of Church and state.
robbyhusseinmack @ 17:
Why should priests be forced to marry same-sex couples? I think you go way to far when you start dictating that priests must marry homosexual couples. Way too far, it is not at all like doctors performing a medical operation. Whats next are you going to start dictating who gets communion?
Bush does not care about human life outside of his immediate family, if then. His mother is just the same. In fact, the day after her daughter died she and Bush I went golfing!
It’s not like Republicans use the issue of abortion for political gain every four years or anything.
Every 4 years? More like every four hours.
Now here's a question that might be pertinent.
Are there even any real cases of people being fired or otherwise reprimanded for not taking part in abortion procedures?
I kind of suspect this is a fakeout here. Usually if someone has a problem with such things, they stay out of that area of practice, or work out some kind of accommodation.
This means that businesses that provide health care will have to hire extra people. They will have to have people on staff at all times who are willing to treat everyone, even while there are other people on staff who are only willing to treat those people who adhere to that health care provider's moral/religious code.
Since it will be really easy to make the case that all patients must be offered treatment/services regardless of the personal moral codes of some providers, it's a no-brainer that businesses will be unable to hire employees who are unwilling to treat all patients.
marina @ 27:
I think you're all over it. This is just stirring up the hornets' nest for political reasons. Create the narrative of poor, persecuted, heroically-defiant doctors and such who are being hounded by the rabid left. I tend to agree that most, if not all, health care professionals have already found ways, both personal and professional, to deal with issues such as this.
This smacks of political theater to "fire up the base".
Yes! We should always respect and protect those who claim to know God's opinions. It's just purely coincidental that God's opinions happen to completely match their own.
Amitola @ 19:
That may be comforting for you to believe, but it is dead wrong. Bush and company are without question "actual Christians," who believe what they're saying for religious reasons. That makes them a hundred times more dangerous.
They may well be "power hungry misogynists" (sounds right to me), but that fits nicely with their brand of Christianity. To try to label anyone with offensive beliefs as not really Christian is to deny reality. Christianity isn't some objective set of beliefs; it's what its adherents say it is. Justification for everything they do can be found somewhere in the Bible (OK, maybe not for groping Angele Merkel, but everything else), which is filled with genocide, war, misogyny and on and on. The biggest murderer in the Bible? Why, the Big Guy himself, making the world safe for his chosen people by killing countless men, women, and children of not-so-chosen pedigree.
If you're a woman, John McPOW and George "AWOL" Bush want you to know -- they own your uterus and ovaries and they'll make sure you don't misuse them. And don't forget, they're backed up by a minimum of four religious nuts on the Supreme Court.
--Another public service message brought to you by America's religious fascists.
From the little I've seen of Hillary's dead-enders, they won't be open to rational arguments about the dangers of McCain. They're too busy pouting.
Matt 4:7 "Thou shalt Not Tempt God"
To forbid an abortion when the mothers life is at stake is even worse for you are forcing another to tempt God.
[Deleted. Pick a different permanent name or I'll ban you, because I don't have time to play silly buggers with you-Sitemonitor]
Bush did the right thing for once.
bush is a fine example why an abortion
would have been preferable to letting this
bastard be born. he truly is an abomination
before humanity.
oh really @ 31:
You may believe whatever you want, but there is a clear distinction between "pretend Christians" and real Christians. The Bible says that you will know them by their fruit, as opposed to knowing them by what they claim on TV. Do they bear good fruit? I think by any stretch of the imagination Bush bears bad fruit, and he has all of his life.
I saw an interview with George H.W. Bush, where he said that he was so proud of his son, who had read the Bible "three times"! I nearly fell out of my chair. Can you imagine George Bush reading anything that is lengthy and requires careful study? Bush's Christianity is a fabrication by Karl Rove. His reading "three Shakespeares" and a Camus is just as much of a lie. (Oh, how I wished that the reporter would have asked Bush to tell us about what he had supposedly read.)
What I find amazing is how the press and media will actually argue that Bush is a Christian and is guided by his faith. What a joke. Jesus himself spoke in the harshest of terms of these pretend Christians, calling them "whited sepulchres (mausoleums)" all white-washed and clean on the outside, but inside full of every kind of filth, decay, and dead men's bones.
It doesn't take too long to look at George Bush, Tony Perkins, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Bakker, and Ted (I just went for a massage) Haggard to know that the men who proclaim the loudest that they are Christians are nothing of the kind.
Your point about them actually believing they are Christians is well-taken. I don't doubt that many, in their narcissistic delusions, believe that they are the very chosen of God. However, most know that they are charlatans and just use their "Christianity" as a meal-ticket that allows them to get what they want. Case in point: Tom Delay, who says that he is a Christian and prays all of the time. Yeah, Tom. How is that whole, "For as you have done it to the least of these, you have done it to me", thing going? Fed any poor people lately?
someguy @ 23:
WHAT?that must be snark..unless you are saying that churches are not bound by Law but by their views ?...tax exempt status is already govt. sponsorship, but nowhere is it stated that they are not bound by Law,..think about someone you care about in an emergency situation and having to think of whatever religious ideas might play a part in that critical help..what if they are a Jehovas Witness and the time to act on a critical transfusion is too short to 'vet' alternate mythological views ?..damn is it Saturday?..cant call that one either today, 'they' say this isn't the day of the week that 'we' believe it to be, whose 'beliefs' it is that 'trumps'?... . I think you understand the 'separation of 'church and State' as poorly as you spell it. In fact one job of Govt. is to not have itself be a 'theocracy',
entropius @ 13:
i would be impressed if you had shown a backbone somewhere
in this statement and that you are willing to do something....
it appears you, like so many are willing to sit back and just
watch while those who challenge the moronic ignorance
that has taken over the whitehouse and allowed the
reichwingneocons to destroy the Constitution, must face
ridicule and endangerment of themselves and their families/friends.
ronniemitchell @ 37:
I think it is you sir who are wayyy off base on this one. A government should have no right to dictate the religious practices of any particular religion so long as those practices don't physically harm others. If a catholic priests doesn't want to perform a homosexual marriage, why should he have to? Your views seem to be a mirrored reflection of the Bush Co. policies, and that is not a good thing.
Uh, if there is a doctor that is personally against abortions, should that doctor be performing abortions? I don't think they should.
stevo @ 18:
I agree. I also think, as other commenters stated here, it's just a political issue to stir up the base. It's exactly that. I'm sure people in the medical profession have found a way to avoid doing something that conflicts with their conscience or religious beliefs.
JimboSlice @ 39:
Jimbo you explained it so much better than me.
Nothing worse for mainstream candidates than to pander to Evangelists.
Evangelists are already all over Colorado especially the Colorado Springs area. Evangelists are a cult. A cult not unlike Jehovahs Witnesses. Scientology, and Mormonology. All three ridiculous.
Hello you Evangelist cult people who think you know more than anyone else. Happy to see you took over the US Air Force Academy. Nice building you built there. Any Jews allowed inside? Thought not. Oh well.
stevo @ 18:
you really need to sit in a corner
and just spend a lot of time
comtemplating what you just espoused.
where does one man's right interfere
with another man's right.
your statement is a circular argument.
JimboSlice @ 39:
I have no problem with this. In return, they can just give up their tax-exempt status in return for religious practices that violate the law.
cc @ 45:
You better hope a day never comes when the state dictates our faith because when it does it'll be less than a decade till they're burning atheists at the stake.
cc @ 45:
what law are they breaking? The one you just magically created?
JimboSlice @ 47:
I agree with both of you.
cc, they should lose their tax exempt status if they start preaching partisan politics from the pulpit.
But Jimbo's right that government can't be allowed to mandate or outlaw a churches sacramental practices. And while marriage is a sacrament in most religions, the sacrament itself is no legal basis for recognizing a marriage. The legal basis is the secular, government granted marriage license. See the dichotomy there?
Thank you for this nugget of observational sanity, dear SP!
can there be a worse party pooper than bush?
i believe chimpy cares far less about the actual issue of abortion than anyone gives him credit for. he's thrown the religious right under the bus too many times for that to be true. actually he's thrown *everyone else other than himself* under the bus at one time or another. my point is, he's merely using this abortion issue to prove that he *still can influence the election*. he feels lonely that he's gop poison this election is all. do you honestly think " old smirk-face" cares a whit about the millions of women this will affect? or about fetuses? no it's all about him and only him. he's that much of a jerk. that's what i see when i look into those piggy eyes in that smirky face.
sorry...didn't mean to carry on...
It’s not like Republicans use the issue of abortion for political gain every four years or anything.
They don't. They use the issue of homosexuality every four years. But that won't be enough in 2008, will it?
bryancri @ 50:
Not really.
I imagine not even the pro-life crowd enjoys his trying to associate himself with them.
why should someone have to perform an abortion if they don't want to? i am in favor of it being legal, but personally find it abhorrent. i don't want to pay for someone else's abortion. of course anyone who disagrees can *agree* with me if they just use this logic: if you're opposed to war, why should you have to pay for it? see. why should you pay for mass murder if you're opposed to it? i am sure most of the people who disagree with bush here would probably state that someone should not have to *actively participate* in mass murder (ex: the draft) for any number of reasons.
it's a great idea, and it is called freedom!
Apu @ 3:
NO! This nation is done. We are now hanging by a thread.
bryancri @ 50:
Multi-Mansion McCain
They impose their own religious beliefs into our government. "Save the blessed fetuses, for they are nothing less than a sheer miracle!" Then, later on, after a few years, KILL 'EM ALL, any way you can, when they grow up to be in what they consider, a highly, too overpopulated planet. It is actually mentioned, repeatedly, in their NWO plans. They swear to an oath, on "the" bible, the book of all books, the true word, the meaning of it all, then do "exactly" the opposite of what that oath clearly states, without batting an eyelid, or any hesitation whatsoever. Why not just leave the swearing-in part, to God, out? It's a waste of our time and intelligence, and Gods too. It's one thing to lie, but, to lie directly to their God, with millions witnessing it? With their hand on "his" book of truths? That means it's a far, far worse a fate for us, if they can so EASILY LIE to their own God, who WILL smite them, and banish them,...forever and ever.
They imposed their corporations into our governments. Even stronger than their religion. Then, their same corporations eliminate their workers jobs over here, and hire them much cheaper, over there, then they even move the entire corporation over there, to avoid paying taxes on the record profits they make over here. We must somehow pay for their record debts, they created. Yet they knowingly, for more profits, in their pockets, eliminated the only way we have to try and pay that debt, and then, they take away whatever we have left, that we own, such as the very roofs over our heads. Homelessness isn't booming. Right? Or do I see it all wrong? For some reason I cannot figure out, I cannot simply believe it, when they keep saying "All's Well!" with the economy. Whose economy? Ours or theirs? They loose track of what they own, like we loose our remotes??!! Oh yeah! Their REALLY in touch with what we are feeling. Really?
They steal from us repeatedly. A few billions here. A few trillions there. They cannot, will not, and have not accounted for none of it. What do they have to fear? Another "investigation to nowhere"?
They gave themselves the powers to start wars and actual "illegal" occupations, on their terms, the way they want it. Nobody is stopping their war based on pure lies. There is no opposition, and it is working for them. It makes them real good money. Record m-o-n-e-y! Let's...$urge away! Only surge I can see, is in their PROFITS. Many, we are not even allowed to see or have any clue as to how much it really is. It's a shhhhh!...secret!
They illegally destroy any and all evidence they feel like, without batting an eye. Right in front of our eyes. Why? Cause nobody is even trying in the least, to stop it. The rest is just so easily classified a secret, even though it has absolutly nothing to do with national security. Why bother with any of this? Nobody is challenging anything, and the legal system is stacked to the hilt. Pardons are a simple pen stroke away.
They have secret budgets, which fund black projects, without oversight. Don't even think about questioning it's morality or reasoning. The main culprits that are caught, are untouchable and move on to even be rich celebraties. Arms deals, wmd deals, drug deals, pipeline deals, overthrowing of leaderships, etc., are not what's in their true agendas and are not to be spoken about. They are doing it all, just for "us". Our betterment. It's just the left wing "wacko" conspiracy nuts who ever think of this shit as any other agenda, as history has proven. Right or wrong?
There's just way, way too much shit to try and fathom anymore, and try to straighten out. JFK was killed for trying, and he was at the time the most powerfull person in the world. Who are we...all divided up,...sacrificing to the hilt, trying to exist paycheck to paycheck, to try and stop them? We can only make posts and blogs about all that we find that is very seriously wrong, and have to worry about our own jobs, our own futures, loosing our own homes (I know for a fact, I only own one), our own lack of health care, and even just having a darn country left, to even do all this worrying in.
I thought doctors choose their own specialty. If you oppose abortion then why would you choose a specialty that includes performing abortions? Seems like a non-issue to me.
If a doctor told me he didn't want to do my shoulder surgery because he's philosophically or otherwise opposed to it I wouldn't sue him. I'd find another doctor who would do the surgery.
This is pretty much all anyone needs to know about the anti-abortion crowd.
Arbitrary laws effecting policy should not be written unless there is prrof that there is a problem. This is being written to create a remedy where no substantial controversy existed.
You know this kind of bullshit will be swept under the rug in a couple of months and forgotten. No, I'm not talking about elections, it just seems that every time Bubu proposes anything that creates contriversy, his own party ends up ignoring him.
joe! @ 34:
the only thing bush did right was changing daylight saving
If a pharmacy or clinics makes a DIME of profit from the governments programs Medicare and Medicaid then they should be forced to offer any and all services that are still legal.
Bush administration wants birth control to be labelled as a form of abortion.
Bush administration wants providers to be protected from not having to provide abortions.
Which is to say... Bush administration want to protect providers from having to provide birth control.
Not famliar with all the details. Just my personal opinion that medical workers who object to abortion certainly shouldn't be forced to perform procedures.
I'm taking it there is a lot more to it than that however.
The monkey in the WH is a "non-factor" at this point. Just tar and feather him and toss him out the back door...anytime before January 21, 2009.
How capitalistic to enforce protection for the medical workers that refuse to do a procedure. Why would a hospital hire you if you don't want to do the necessary work? If refusing to do the procedure has negative repercussions, live with it.
as a side note, i don't care what Obama does with the issue. If he bends over backwards to keep everyone happy on it, then fine. Its a pointless issue, not even an issue a federal government ought to legislate. Really, Obama should be pressing that Bush is going beyond his authority here for this legislation.
So if doctors get to decide who they will/will not treat and refer to other doctors based on patient's behavior, religious and political beliefs, why stop at doctors and health care providers? Why should an evangelical or conservative catholic fireman have to respond to a fire at an abortion clinic or even a hospital or medical practice that provides birth control or abortion services/advise/referal...what about drug stores, or mainstream and more liberal churches. "Let them Unitarians burn now rather than later." Police officers should then get to make choices of services provided based on their religious leanings. Why should a catholic officer have to respond to a hold up of a 7-11 or Rite Aid that sells condoms and morning after birth control that the pope opposes and increasingly the anti birth control evangelicals? Talk about a slippery slope!
Let us slide a bit more. Have evangelicals and conservative catholics set up private church run hospitals with absolutely NO taxpayer funds to provide services based on old testement beliefs and centuries old papal decisions. Let them hire medical providers that refused to submit to medical lisencing boards or take heathen oaths from an ancient non Christian Greek. Let them serve only their fellow believers and ignore modern medical science and intellectual enlightenment to their hearts content. Let them become the medical equivalent of the Amish, while the rest of us get services based on modern science without theological interference or judgement from lisenced professionals. Where we get to decide what we believe and what we want or don't want for services. The biggest problem would be the innocent children harmed by their parents ingnorance, otherwise...?
End the Global Gag Rule!
Religious believes do not belong in government. How can Bush just decide on this change in the law? ? I thought Congress made the laws, not the president.
My grandmother died at the age of 28 from a back alley abortion when they were illegal. She would have lived had she not been forced to go to a non doctor. A life lost for no reason except the government in Washington, DC decides on who lives or dies based on laws they pass. There are consequences to everything.
I doubt any doctor in America is doing abortions against their will. This is aimed at pharmacists and other medical personal that do not want to dispense birth control pills. One would only hope there would be as many that refused to fill the republic party's Viagra RX. They would not like that one little bit.
The republicparty only thinks of the life of the zygote, not the Mother. Go to HELL Mr. Bush and take those other republiCONs with you. Tony is waiting on all you guys and he's got the temp up nice and high.
Looks like your attempt to force atheism on other failed again trolls.
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