Despite CNN Distortion, Americans Prefer Obama Tax Plan
By Jon Perr Tuesday Aug 26, 2008 1:15pmAs ThinkProgress reported, CNN on Tuesday showed a deceptive chart which wrongly suggests that John McCain's tax plan provides more Americans with greater savings than that offered by Barack Obama. But CNN's upper-crust income brackets, which start at $161,000 and represent only 5% of taxpayers, conceal the inescapable truth that Barack Obama's proposals offer working and middle class Americans steeper tax benefits at every income level up to $110,000. And according to a new Gallup poll released this week, that truth isn't lost on American voters.
By 48% to 43%, Americans surveyed by Gallup say Obama would better handle the issue of taxes than John McCain. And with good reason. As the Washington Post detailed, an analysis by the Tax Policy Center showed:
"Obama's plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy."
Those whose income is under $67,000 - 60% of all American taxpayers - would see substantially larger tax cuts under the Obama plan. While McCain's plan concentrates 58% of its benefits to the wealthiest 1% of Americans, Obama's rollback of the Bush tax cuts above $250,000 produces tax increases for that group.
Sadly, Obama's story is not getting through. In the face of the TPC's analysis showing that 95% of American taxpayers would see savings under the Obama tax plan, 53% of the Gallup respondents wrongly believe their tax burden would increase under President Obama. Meanwhile, despite the same analysis showing McCain's plan to make permanent and expand the Bush tax cuts would produce a staggering $2.8 trillion in red ink for the federal budget, the Republican still claims the mantle of fiscal discipline.
And to be sure, CNN did American voters no favors today.
Crossposted at Perrspectives.
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Well, duh. Only the wealthy prospered in the Bush years. Meanwhile, the middle class is dying. Thanks for nothing Bush!
if obama does get into office.....i hope he doesn't get talked out of this
tax policy. wall street and k-street will work him hard. i'm counting on him and his message.
Well, CNN is certainly has been biased for a long time now. I prefer MSNBC since they seem to actually try to be somewhat neutral. Sure, they have some Republican scumbags on air but they actually get debated and defeated on-air which is more than can be said about the other networks.
By the way, remember all that clamoring for Evangelicals to PRAY FOR A DISASTER during the Democratic Convention, and then their PRAY FOR RAIN during Obama's speech. Well, well, well, God must not like Republicans claiming they represent his Divine Grace.
Check this out from the NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER:
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at2+shtml/143014.shtml?5day#con...
Uh Oh... MAJOR hurricane heading into the gulf and directing its eye at the HEART OF OIL RIG country in the Gulf of Mexico. It also looks like it will menace New Orleans. Hmmmm..... is GOD sending a message he is ANGRY with Republicans? How CONVENIENT and ISN'T IT SPECIAL the hurricane will strike during their convention?
I don't see any hurricanes hitting during the Democratic Convention... God must not be ANGRY with Democrats, huh?
Distortion and CNN have become synonyms. I'm disgusted the way CNN is distorting the sentiment at the Democratic National Convention and will absolutely NOT watch it on their propagandist channel. I'm totally sick of Campbell Brown - the GOP's private attack dog - pretending to moderate the convention in as upbeat a way as possible and then throwing in cynical and sarcastic digs. What was totally repulsive was when she and her cohort took the "unsolicited comments" from some fictitious caller in order to swing the conversation to some GOP "hit" on Obama. This is ridiculous and needs to be stopped.
As for me, I prefer to watch it live on CSpan and without the commentary of button-pushing sensationalists like the CNN commentators. Soon I will boycott CNN entirely - just like Faux News - they've become the reichwing's new megaphone.
What the are doing during this convention is appalling if you ask me. Campbell Brown is not just a pedestrian sycophant; she's the quintessential media whore.
Looks to me like you would only see a tax INCREASE under Obama's plan if you make more than $603,402...I'm hoping my raise this year won't push me into the $603,403 and up crowd! Actually, boss, if you're reading this.....feel free to raise my income to $603,403!
Are there ANY Repug policies that Americans prefer ?
2000 should have been a slam dunk
2004 should have been a slam dunk
2008 should be a slam dunk
what's wrong with the Dems ?
P.D. @ 1:
What George Bush and his cadre of criminals called the GOP have done to the Middle Class of this country is nothing short of "criminal". He will be known throughout history as being the most criminal as well as the most horrendous president ever.
The headline of a Washington Post article read:
"Obama Tax Plan Would Balloon Deficit, Analysis Finds."
But while the headline focused on Sen. Barack Obama, the article itself reported that the Tax Policy Center found that Sen. John McCain's tax plan would add $5 trillion to the national debt while Obama's plan would add $3.4 trillion.
McCaint Remember @ 6:
The "slam dunk" which was indicated by the popular vote was downright 'HACKED' with the help of a criminal named Kenneth Blackwell, State Sup of Elections and head of Bush/Cheney 04 in Ohio - that's what happened with the obvious "slam dunk"....and the bastards are planning to steal the election this time again. Never underestimate the diabolical nature of criminals; these republicans have their lives and fortunes to lose when they are brought down. They will stop at nothing to ensure that McTwinMcSidekick gets into office. Count on it.
osiris @ 9:
And they have corporate, fascist american corporations who have mucho dinero to lose if Obama gets in......you KNOW the frauds will be out in droves in November - doing everything within their power to hack this election.
The world knows that Reslugs are habitually known as liars and can't ever be trusted so, they are only fooling other Stupid, uneducated Reslugs.
Oh come on now! You really can't upset the right wingnuts with the facts! Their heads will explode!
Look, anyone with even a room temperature IQ who is even remotely socially out with others knows without a shadow of a doubt that the polls are definitely NOT 50/50. In fact, since there are only 28% registered republicans at this point (the third party in terms of numbers) how in the hell do they think they're pulling the wool over our eyes with that lie?
Fact: Only an election which "appears" (operative word here) to be a dead heat can be hacked without causing riots in the streets of this country. Fact: It becomes a matter of national security then to present illegitimate poll numbers in order to make the hack not look suspicious.
Fact: If there are 36% registered Democrats and 34% registered Independents, that leaves only 28% registered repukes and 2% undecided. There is NO WAY THIS MATH WORKS.
Do not believe one word of the polling information from here on in. The GOP owned pollsters are "putting in the fix" right now. Then they will go to work like they did in Ohio while we slept and Ken Blackwell ran his tabulations into a server in a bank building in Tennessee where they rigged the results and also rigged the infamous "exit polls" to match those results. BE NOT FOOLED, PEOPLE.
Quick calculations suggest that 33% to 38% of those pro-McBaners are idiots.
No surprise there.
Personally, I don't think the tax increase goes far enough on those earning over the highest mark. Seeing some of the salaries of CEO's approaching $100 million, those people should be taxed at around 70-80%, especially since they are paying their employees squat. Sure it seems like a lot, but if you were making $80 mil, you would still bring home over $6 mil at the 80% mark. I just don't think any of us would have a problem surviving at that yearly income. Plus it would send a message to these new Robber Barons to stop gutting their companies.
Part of the deception of the graphic is from the "average cut" - (the bottom row). To calculate this the authors simply averaged all of the brackets, weighting them equally. If the brackets were weighted according to the number of people in each bracket, a more accurate way to do this, then it would be clear that Obama has the better tax policy.
I quote"but I didn't have a home for 5 1/2 yrs" so you have to vote for me cause I was a pow
I stand corrected: I just checked www.independentvoters.org and discovered that the number of Independents has swelled to 40% now. This means that the I's have even eclipsed the number of registered Democrats and hold the distinction of now being the largest voting bloc.
40% Independents
36% Democrats
24% Repukes
IT'S EVEN WORSE THAN I THOUGHT FOR THE GOP-IGS!
osiris @ 18:
I think the propagandist media needs to supply an explanation here to the american people about the perpetuation of the outright myth that McSame and Obama are tied. It's not statistically possible regardless of how you dice it.
It looks like even Obama's plan is going to result in a decrease in federal revenue. Is that really what they want to tackle these insane debts? His plan is far, far superior, and it goes a ways towards levelling the playing field, but he still has a task ahead of him to design a budget that can accommodate this tax system.
Come on, Stewart/Olberman/Colbert, don't let this slide through the cracks...
a 50/50 race means only one thing since it's a total fallacy - it means that the "fix is in" and our votes will be hacked in November by the criminals within the Republican party.
‘Nightline’ to Air Previously Unseen 2004 Obama Interview - What are they up to???
No wonder the repigs hate me, I'm not freakin' rich.
Another reason might be that I refer to republicans as "repigs."
No wonder the radio talking shills (Limbaugh, Hannity, Weiner Savage, Boortz, Reagan, etc, etc) don't want Obama.
But ... but ... McSenile is a former POW! (Gasp, sputter ...)
More specifically, what are those sneaky fuckers ABC, who were behind Clinton hit-job The Paths to 9/11 and THAT debate, up to??? I smell a rat.
Did anybody see this little gem..
” Republican National Committee Chairman Mike Duncan said the team of nearly two dozen staffers at the opposition headquarters will be “fact-checking” statements made by the Obama campaign and by speakers during the convention.
“Just consider this the Ministry of Truth,” quipped Dick Wadhams, chairman of the Colorado Republican Party. ”
http://www.politicswest.com/28818/republicans_set_war_room_near_downtown
Any of you ever read the book, 1984, by Orwell ????
And of course the higher tax brackets will whine and complain about how the government is steal their money when they still net about 3-4 times more than the average American will gross this year.
Look for McCain supporters to tout the bottom line "average cut" of 2% versus Obamas' .3%, another woefully misleading
"fact" when viewed in the context of the greater number of Americans positively affected.
Zenrage @ 29:
The percentage of the population in the top two brackets are less than 3% and most of them work for corporations.
Democracy is when 3% of the population controls the other 97%. Ones that fail - that is.
Thanks. This is now a handout for my neighbors.
CNN is corporate media and has a vested interest, as they all do, in deceptive presentation of Obama's Tax plan since all of their executives and on-air talent would be effected by Obama's elimination of Bush's tax cuts for individuals making over $250,000 a year.
One area of McCain's proposals that really stands out to me is the part of his energy plan that calls for the building of 45 new nuclear power plants.
At an average costs of $8.5 Billion per power plant his proposed 45 new nuclear power plants would cost about $380+ Billion dollars.
That would leave little for funding alternative fuels sources, not to mention that these plants are usually built with Federal and State tax dollars... yet he says he won't raise taxes!
So where does he propose getting this kind of revenue stream from... more "borrow and spend" national debt spiking borrowing?
Worse yet...
1. Those plants take on average 7 to ten years to build so not one watt of power for a decade.
2. He doesn't say which lucky state gets the waste storage site.
3. The $380+ Billion doesn't account for cost over runs, which these plants are prone to big ones, nor security for protecting these sites from terrorist attacks, nor the decommissioning costs after they have finished their 40 average life span.
Check out ANOTHER gem of deception.
The Census Bureau issued a News Release that has been picked up by the entire MSM.
Here's an example [bold mine]:
MarketWatch: Fewer Americans without health insurance; real income gains
Crunch the numbers:
Median household income adjusted for inflation rose 1.3%
Poverty rate hit 12.5% in 2007, compared with 12.3% in the prior year
(12.5 - 12.3) / 12.3 = 0.016 = 1.6% increase in the poverty rate.
So a 1.3% increase in household income IS significant.
But a 1.6% increase in the poverty rate is NOT.
And, the actual Census Bureau Report (not the "News Release") highlights the FACT that the 1.3% increase in median household income in 2007 ALMOST brings the median household income back up to 1999 levels.
BUT .. every MSM headline trumpets the Census Bureau's "News Release" ..
AND .. what's the REAL reason more Americans now have Health Insurance? Because more poverty level children are on Medicaid & SCHIP, more than compensating for the number of Middle Class Americans who have lost their coverage.
Yes .. it's election season & the ReTHUGs are HARD AT WORK ..
pffffft
I beleive McCain has a secret economic plan:
Marry a Rich Trophy Country...and all our economic troubles will be over...
I'm looking at you, UAE! Let's hook up and you can fix our budget woes and buy our national debt from that bitch, China!
Cheers,
Mike @ 28:
Indeed..and I'm sure most here have...they're actually referencing that book now...wow...these fascists fucks sure are proud of themselves ain't they?
super rich tax cheats. whistle blower working at european bank reveals
major league tax shelters these are the loopholes obama/biden are speaking of
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/47653-super-rich-tax-cheats
cmhmd @ 35:
That is PRECISELY what the "American" Military-Industrial-Complex is doing ..
You nailed it!
Barack Obama wants to give YOU a tax cut. John McCain wants to give HIMSELF a tax cut.
You people are amazing! The more I read the opinions of demoncrats on these blogs, the more I realize that education is the number one problem in this country and these blog comments certainly demonstrate it. Do any of you ever ask why these candidates come up with the policies they do? Not that I am a McCain fan, this diagram only shows you INCOME tax proposals. It mentions nothing of the other forms for generating income or wealth and how each candidate plans to tax those items. There are only 3 ways to generate wealth or income: Land, Labor, & Capital. This means there are only 3 ways for the government to generate revenue. The chart above only shows you each candidate's plan on taxing LABOR. It mentions nothing of proposed taxes on LAND (ie Real Estate or Estate) or on CAPITAL (ie: Capital Gains) taxes. Obama also has a plan (that is not mentioned) to also increase capital gains taxes to their historic maximum of 39%. This represents all dividends, stock , Bonds, and all assets held longer than 1 year. This means those struggling busines owners who happen to have grown their business from nothing to something will have to pay Uncle Sam almost 40% of their profits if they wish to sell their business to someone else. Or how about all those boomer retirees who will be selling their stock 401K/IRA holdings to live on? Or how about all those retirees who will be using their 401K/IRA stock or bond income to live on.....that's 40% to the government, the get what's left.....even if their INCOME tax rate would be lower. Or how about when they die, the government takes 40%! I don't know about you but that doesn't seem fair. What did the government do in this partnership to earn 40%?
I am sure most of you were sick the day they taught economics in high school but I want to let you know that those in the top 3 tiers of income employ the majority of those in the bottom 6 tiers. There is nothing wrong with taxing the wealthy but if you are, make sure you prepare yourself the market/economic reaction when those top 3 tiers decide to move their business (LAND, LABOR, & CAPITAL) to another country or just merely pay the tax rather than employ more people. Additionally, don't you think that the rich will stop paying themselves INCOME and move the assets to CAPITAL or LAND. Remember, the government doesn't earn a dime from anyone that is not working! In fact, the government incurs an expense when people are not working. Less people working means less government tax revenue...which means a higher budget deficiet. If politicians don't have any money to work with, their job is inherently useless.
I think the "why" of Obama's plan is try to equal the forces of wealth and redistribute wealth evenly. I think his fault is that he believes the wealthy will not change their behavior and merley keep the same number of people employed and keep their company moving along. Taxes are an expense boys and girls....expenses are passed along to the consumer in higher prices.
McCain wants to do the opposite. He knows he, or any government body, cannot mandate private enterprise to employ people so he attempts to give them an incentive to do so by lower taxes by lowering their expenses. In turn, he hopes more and more people will be employed earning a living, thereby giving the governement more tax revenues.
Alan Stanwyck @ 40:
This kind of 'supply side' thinking has done nothing except balloon our deficits and national debt. It is "voodoo economics" as the elder Bush called it when he ran against Reagan in 1980. It doesn't work!
Here's a nice graph that proves it:
Alan Stanwyck @ 40:
Well, thank you!
The real story on Obama's plans:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200806120006
Cheers,
Try this for the graph:
http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP.gif
my understanding is that obama's taxation proposal will be a rollback
to clinton years......?
I passed this graphic on to a Republican family member and she was quite surprised. You can copy and paste it into an email message if you'd like. Peace.
Alan Stanwyck @ 40:
What really doesn't seem fair to me is our Republican friends are spending money like there is no tomorrow with only recent oversight by a Democratic congress and leaving the bill to be paid by our children and grandchilder. Let's leave out off the argument about the legitimacy of the occupation. It's $10 Billion dollars a month in borrowed dollars every month. That is $5000 a second. It the time it took me to read your novel, $1.5 millions dollars were spent in Iraq. All these dollars are borrowed with no plans to pay it back other than inflation. So tell me how McSidekick is going to resolve this issue by giving even more away to people who don't need it. I'm sure they will but another Mecedes and that will generate a job or two. It does not solve the problem of our national debt and how weak it leaves our economy.
Alan Stanwyck @ 40:
Lucky you said at the beginning you weren't a McCain fan, otherwise people might have made that completely incorrect assumption. You know, with the usage of words like 'demoncrat', and the drippy paragraph of fluff you closed this laughable diatribe with.
Lucky also that you are able to read Obama's mind so you can reveal his super-secret tax plan. much like you could read the minds of all the 'demoncrats on these blogs', in order to know that they were 'demoncrats'. No doubt you deduced they're all from the USA, as well.
So, Professor Stanwyck, did you gain your considerable economic prowess by using those mind-reading skills on Ben Stein?
MountainMan23 @ 34:
Good Catch!
Bush and Cheney put a "political officer" into every agency and now we are seeing the results. Stalin did the same thing with a "party officer" in every branch of the government and the military.
osiris @ 7:
Then the middle class knows how it must vote, if they want this Bu$h cabal rape and pillage to stop. Suck it up and vote for the Democratic party; plain and simple.
Alan Stanwyck @ 40:
If you are making your entrepeneurial decisions based upon whether the top marginal tax rate is going up 5% or so, then you are, to use the current vernacular, retarded.
For a historical perspective on tax rates, go here:
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
And even Ben Stein has given up on the supply side crapola:
http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2008/03/what-mccain-could-do-about-taxes-ben.html
and here:
http://cmhmd.blogspot.com/2008/02/tax-cuts-dont-boost-revenues-printout....
And TR had some opinions on the passively wealthy:
http://jeffweintraub.blogspot.com/2006/06/teddy-roosevelt-adam-smith-on....
And finally, just to give some perspective on what kind of incomes we're talking about here:
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/hhinc/new05_000.htm
Cheers,
here's a different approach to explaining obama's tax proposal(s)....it's
governor corzine a business person and the former ceo of goldman sachs
especially if you didn't appreciate alan's explaination. alan may know more than corzine but i encourage you to listen to this interview. it's short
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=832826390&play=1
I think 4 MORE YRS of the Republican Crime Syndicate should do the trick!
40. Stanwyck
I haven't seen any proposal to raise the capital gains tax to 39%, Obama's plan will raise it to 28%, and it won't be applied to many small businesses and 401k's.
Why should someone who earns their INCOME from capital gains pay less perecentage in taxes than someone who earns income by their labor? I work full time and pay more than 30% from all my Federal taxes, State taxes, and payroll taxes combined on my income. But some trust fund kid who never worked a day in his life only has to pay 15% on income earned from selling the stocks his father left him. How does that reward hard work?
You guys act like this little tax increase on capital gains will be the end of the world, but it worked just fine back in the 90's. People weren't jumping out of buildings, and closing up shop because they had to pay a little more in capital gains taxes.
Let me teach you about economics. Supply side theory is a failure. A FAILURE!!! The logic behind it was rather stupid. Why would any business increase supply just because they got a tax break? Why would they increase supply if there is no demand? The whole idea was stupid. Demand side economics is what drives this economy. DEMAND SIDE!!! When we (the little people) have more money in our pockets, we tend to spend that money. That increases demand. If any investor worth his salt is smart they would then invest the capital to increase supply to meet that demand. Your argument is that the investor doesn't want to pay a few more points on his taxes so he'll sit on his money. That's stupid. If the demand for goods and services is there someone will come up with the capital because THERE IS MONEY TO BE MADE!!!
God you Republicans are the dumbest creatures to walk this earth. Your theories have failed, and yet you want to keep trying them. Some people would call that insanity.
People can't help it. This is how Walmart tells them to vote. Are you trying to suggest that WALMART IS WRONG!?!
Suz in KS @ 39:
I highly contests this statement above.
"Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, reported assets of between $456,000 and $1.1 million, making it unclear if he is a millionaire. He and his wife had total income of $984,000 in 2006, including $567,000 in royalties for two books he has written. In 2005, Obama received a $1.9 million book advance."
Alan Stanwyck @ 54:
Oops, you forgot to make a point, professor.
listen to that corzine interview....except for alan he doesn't need the info.
his mind is decided.
We have really got to start hit the MSM real hard, showing their biases,then we go after Hannity and his join at the hip with white supremacist Hal Turner, and we need to bring to the attention of the public that Joe Scarbrough was having an affair with an intern who then turn up dead in his congress office, come on people it's time to take the gloves off.
How is McCain going to pay for his across the board tax cut and please dont say trickle doen theory
Karl Rove @ 58:
How is McCain going to pay for his across the board tax cut and please dont say trickle doen theory
Easy, Karl. McCain is going to pay for his tax cuts by starting a war with Iran, in addition to his stated plan to occupy Iraq for 100 years.
sdv @ 16:
Absolutely, that was the first thing my roommate looked at when i showed it to him, i had to explain why it was misleading, and anytime you have to do that there is some questioning in the persons brain, which makes it seem like we are the ones distorting the facts...
PS - Why aren't there tons of videos about the protests on the front page. Have you people been watching the vids coming out on youtube and other places? It's atrocious. Oh, and awesome speech by Kucinich, god i love that man.
Trickle down economics, baby.
Good luck finding it.
Alan you just described Ronnie Regans trickle down theory and it didnt work so you should have slept through that part of economics. $01 k can be with drawn over a 10 year period and tax burden would be lessened and there is no way they tax 40% anyway back to school with you Alan
ObamaTaxCut.com is a site I made with a tool to calculate the tax cut you'll get from Obama (and what you'll save vs. McCain).
Alan Stanwick has made up for our missing one day of high school economics by giving us the equivalent of one high school-level economics lesson. Which has as much to do with economic reality as high school-level physics has to do with physical reality ("for this problem, imagine a frictionless universe").
But I was amused at how business owners went from "struggling" to "the top three tiers" ($227K and up) in the space of one paragraph. It's the American dream!
Keep those meatballs comin', Al.
ALAN you just described Regans trickle down theory and it don't work. Any incentives given to corporations to hire would just be tax breaks so they can set up shop outside the USA with cheaper labor. There goes your labor tax plan
Nobody goes far enough.
There should be a 90% wealth tax on every dollar of individual income over $3 million, received from any source. There should be NO hereditary fortunes in a democracy... Maximum inheritance, past the spouse: $1 million. Everything else, every penny not consigned to a bona fide charity by the estate reverts to the State, which supplied the conditions necessary for the accumulation of any fortune, in the first place.
And another thing:
"THE TAX BITE
The tax you owe on your traditional IRA withdrawals is figured at your regular tax rate. That's why some experts advise keeping investments you expect to grow in value, such as higher-risk stocks and mutual funds, "
This is not taxed at the capital gains rate.
Say "Uncle!"
Cheers,
constituent @ 51:
if you haven't seen/listen to this interview take a few minutes. it's positive.
Dear Alan...with the use of the nonsensical "demoncrats" you identify yourself as fatally biased and any valid points you
make are likely lost in the invective. I'm sure I've done the same in the past so I'm not trying to be righteous. It just seems
a shame that you would so effectively negate your own apparently well thought out argument with such a meaningless appelation.
Alan Stanwyck @ 40:
It's not so simple. John Kenneth Galbraith would have disagreed with you (maybe you skipped that day in economics?) The rich have everything to gain and nothing to lose from libertarian policies. For the middle class it's debatable. For they underprivileged there's nothing to gain by lowering taxes of the rich. But here's something to think about. If high taxes kill economies, why is the EU kicking our butt?
Heh, heh , hehhh....
I'll bet Billionaires for
BushMcCain head will be popping all across America on this one.kdaddy @ 70:
Don't worry, kdaddy. It actually turned out not to be well thought out.
alan stanwyck, you had me at "demoncrats". who pays you ?
To AS@40,
I agree with you on the Cap gains. This should really be taxed as normal income, screws up the tax code anyways and you can generally avoid paying taxes, like the ultra-rich do, by reinvesting.
On taxing the really wealthy, how many of these people actually own their own business. More than likely, they are rockstars, movie stars, or CEO's making obscene amounts by outsourcing jobs or paying low wages to their workers. If you want to see really successful companies, please look at Japan where the CEO's generally do not make over $1 million.
And last, we have seen the effects of trickle down economics and the end results from both Reagan and Shrub. Because of this economic policy, the US economy has gone into recession, only a few are well off, the national debt has ballooned under each, and in the end it took a Democratic President to right the ship.
We have had two 8 year periods of Trickle down over the last 30 years, and all it has done is destroy the overall economy.
Alan Stanwyck @ 55:
You're right! He should have said:
"Obama wants to give you a tax cut, and raise taxes on himself and John McCain... whereas, John McCain wants to give himself (his wife) a tax cut and Obama a smaller one.
There, that should do it. :-)
Speaking of distortions, why did C&L pull the video segment it had up earlier with the title "Caroline Kennedy Punks Wolf Blitzer"? That was funny as hell - and she did punk his sorry a$$.
Why did you take it off C & L ??
[We didn't take it off, RickMack. We're having server issues. I'm running the video as I type. Try going back to the front page, and if you don't see it, refresh the page. Thanks. Site Monitor]
Alan Stanwyck @ 40:
McCain and his primary economic adviser Phil "Foreclosure" Gramm are just more of the same... Bush's policies...
Worst Housing market in 50 years
Highest Number of Bank Foreclosures since the Great Depression.
Record number of home foreclosures...
Worst Credit crisis since the Great Depression
Millions of jobs lost to over-seas firms
Collapse of the Dollar's value and soaring inflation rate
Four dollar gas (it was also Phil Gramm who deregulated the commodities market where oil speculators have driven oil futures sky high)
Hmmm... Think I'll take a pass on McCain's economic policy!
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080611/NEWSB...
bushflipflops @ 52:
Copy this chart, print it 2,000,000 times, and hand it out to everyone you know. Obama's campaign needs to run this over and over and over until the GOP gets laughed out of the room.
Excellent graph. Very easy to read, very easy to see the glaring differences in policy. I've printed out a copy to put up in my cube at work, and I'm e-mailing the pic to everyone I know.
cmhmd @ 42:
MEDIA MATTERS?? OMG....yeah....that's real unbiased news commentary. They make the LA and NY Times look down to earth.
Stanwyck.
Your double taxation argument against capital gains taxes is stupid. Every tax could be argued as double taxation. I get taxed on my income, then get taxed again by sales taxes, so by your logic we should eliminate all sales taxes because it's double taxation. And for the trust fund kid, his INCOME was never taxed. Whether the Father had to pay taxes in the past or not doesn't matter, because we are talking about the kids income.
Your understanding of Keynesian demand side economics is laughable. How does putting more money into the workers pockets translates into telling them what products they can or can't buy? It has been proven in the past that the common man is the engine of this economy. They make the goods and provide the services, and they buy the goods and services. More money in their pockets means more money being spent in the economy. This means more demand for goods and services, which leads to more jobs to meet that demand. If a business sees an increase in a demand for a certain good and doesn't invest in increasing supply because the tax rate is a little higher, then someone else will and their business will increase market share. Tell me why any business will hire more people just because they got a tax break, when demand for their product hasn't increased? Explain that fallacy of supply side economics.
As for why TV's are a dime a dozen, it probably has to do with our government allowing companies to use slave labor in authoritarian countries to make them so cheaply, and ship them back here. So yeah, you'll get cheaper crap, but you'll lose manufacturing jobs and lose billions in trade deficits that allow authoritarian governments to become wealthier.
Let them leave -- just be sure to relocate the company's headquarters to whichever country they choose, along with the board and management, too.
What? The CEOs and their families LIKE living in America?
Tough choice, that.
McCaint Remember @ 6:
What's wrong is when asked about tax policy, like they were last night, they don't bring this up. They talk about "well, the rich can pay more" or "Americans are okay with higher taxes." They don't tell viewers that Obama's plan will lower their income tax, and McCain's plan will balloon the national debt. The Dems should plaster this chart (or at least the lower-income part of it) all over TV, billboards, radio, etc. They should also talk about how McCain's proposal has been in full effect for the last 6-8 years, and did nothing for the economy. If lower income taxes on the rich were a panacea, we'd be in a boom right now.
Alan Stanwyck @ 82:
Here's how this works in the age of reason: You read the media matters post and find facts to refute it and post them here.
Cheers,
Alan Stanwyck @ 82:
Yet they've demonstrated superior economic prowess to you.
""I am sure most of you were sick the day they taught economics in high school but I want to let you know that those in the top 3 tiers of income employ the majority of those in the bottom 6 tiers."
that's the funniest thing i've ever heard. they are rich because of us. we are not "employed" because of them.
if they want to leave the country, then GET GOING. go to europe...oh they have taxes there..uhm russsia...the mafia would destroy them... south america... not a chance....well there is always canada.
we employ ourselves. we have the capability to create our own work. build our own homes and grow our own food. we are not scared, if the rich want to run away ..BYE BYE.
we will get off their power grid and build solar plants and wind farms. we will build intelligently. we will educate the children.
1.) Can someone please tell me why Barack Obama and most democrats have such disdain for someone who perceived as rich or wealthy?
2) Can someone please explain to me the difference between socialism and Obama's economic plan?
I can see his argument that the evil rich are already well off and should pay higher taxes. That works with the wealth envy crowd as demonstrated on this commentary blog. Why is it that democrats believe that the federal government should take on the responsibility to "equalize" wealth of individuals of this nation? Would anyone on this blog agree that there are similarities between Barack Obama and Robin Hood? I don't mind Robin hood...I just don't think it should be the federal government.
From the Media Matters.org article...
Obama said, "[K]eep in mind on all of these proposals, what I have said is, let's make sure that we define the well-off so that we're not hitting the middle class. I generally define well-off as people who are making $250,000 a year or more, and that means, for example, if we raise the capital gains tax, I would exempt people who are essentially small investors, and really capture the -- those who have done very, very well over the last two decades."
Is he saying that if you are successful enough to earn $250K a year, you will be penalized by a higher marginal tax rate because its Fair? I don't think there is any job or career out there in the entire world where someone should be paid $5 Million or more a year. But I say hey, if the market is willing to pay them that, then Kudos to them. Amen to Lebron James, Bill Gates, Alex Rodriguez, and Tom Cruise. I don't think they should be penalized by a higher tax rate because those who are less fortunate don't have it. Perhaps we should transfer this policy to our educational system.....those students that get "A's" will have to forgo and give a portion of their grade to those who received F's, D's & C's becasue its not fair. I think Obama's plan is seeking equal outcome rather than equal opportunity.
But since you gues like facts.....Lets see what "fair" is:
New data released by the IRS offers interesting insights into the distributional spread of the federal income tax burden, new analysis by the Tax Foundation shows. The new data shows that the top-earning 25% of taxpayers (AGI over $62,068) earned 67.5% of the nation's income (GDP), but they paid more than four out of every five dollars collected by the federal income tax (86%). The top 1% of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned approximately 21.2% of the nation's income (as defined by AGI), yet paid 39.4% of all federal income taxes. That means the top 1% of tax returns paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the entire bottom 95% of tax returns.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/ff104.pdf
If the top 1% pays more in taxes than the entire bottom 95% of tax payers, woudln't you agree this is unfair?
Michele Obama said some really good things the other night.
"Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life.....Because we want our children - and all children in this nation - to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."
I thought these were great comments...I just don't think it reflects in their policies...
BELOW IS DIRECTLY FROM THE OBAMA WEBSITE....looks like more spending and more entitlements.
Jumpstart the Economy
Provide Additional Tax Rebates to American Workers: The economy has continued to weaken significantly, despite congressional action to provide immediate tax rebates to American consumers. Stimulus: $20 billion.
Establish a $10 billion Foreclosure Prevention Fund: Given the downturn in the economy, Obama is calling for immediate creation of his Foreclosure Prevention Fund that will dramatically increase emergency pre-foreclosure counseling, and will help families facing foreclosure to responsibly refinance their mortgages or sell their homes. Obama’s plan will not help speculators, people buying vacation homes or people that falsely represented their incomes. It is meant to help responsible homeowners through this difficult period. Stimulus: $10 billion.
Provide $10 billion in Relief for State and Local Governments Hardest-Hit by the Housing Crisis to Prevent Cuts in Vital Services: Because of the housing crisis and the weakening economy, many state and local governments are facing significant revenue shortfalls. Barack Obama believes that in the areas hardest-hit by the housing crisis we should provide immediate, temporary funding to state and local governments so that the decline in property values does not cause them to slash critical public services and cut vital infrastructure spending. Stimulus: $10 billion.
Extend and Expand Unemployment Insurance: Barack Obama believes we must extend and strengthen the Unemployment Insurance (UI) program to address the needs of the long-term unemployed, who currently make up nearly one-fifth of the unemployed and are often older workers who have lost their jobs in manufacturing or other industries and have a difficult time finding new employment. Expanding UI is one of the most effective ways to combat economic turmoil; every dollar invested in UI benefits results in $1.73 in economic output. Obama is calling for a temporary expansion of the UI program for those who have exhausted their current eligibility. Stimulus: $10 billion.
Just read parts of Alan #79 and teh stupid hurts!
Alan, why don't you go over to Wikipedia (since you don't like Media Matters - as if that effing matters!) and teach those rubes economics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_side_economics
Cheers,
kep306 @ 46:
Recent "oversight" by the democrats hasn't fixed anything. This proves that there isn't much difference between R's and D's... they both are wreckless in their spending and lax in their responsibilities. It further proves that when Obama is elected president (and at the same time perhaps even more R's get voted out of the Legislature and replaced with D's) that things will not change . Voting for Obama isn't voting for change, not real change. And how could it? He is coming from our current legislative branch of government! You know, the group that spends recklessly and is lax in their responsibilities. Sure, they aren't all bad apples, but Obama hardly stands out as one that has done much of anything. Kucinich on the other hand... but, nooooo... the democrats didn't like him. Further proof that when it comes to the populace in general D's are just as dumb as R's.
89:
1.) We like rich people whose entire skeletal systems are not composed of selfish bones. The Kennedys, Warren Buffet, George Soros, Bono, etc.
2.)Socialism. Try that wikipedia thing again.
"If the top 1% pays more in taxes than the entire bottom 95% of tax payers, woudln’t you agree this is unfair? "
LOL. First, reread your own post and quote there, pal. Second, NO! You haven't figured this out yet? What percentage of WEALTH does that 1% control? What proportion of societal benefits accrue to them? (FAA, the Courts, our armies to protect their wealth-as opposed to defending America, highways, transportation,the tax code, subsidies for their industrises.)
Don't be such a total rube, man!
TR again: "The man of great wealth owes a particular obligation to the state because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."
And finally, why do people like you reject all religious and mainstream philisophical thought. What school advocates "every man for himself"? - Buddhism? [That's a shout out to the Fish Called Wanda fans!]
Cheers,
Ooh! Found it! That wikipedia thingie:
Cheers,
well said
Let me understand this, McFraud wants to give his Fat Cat Cronies $269,364 average, per year.
He wants to give l'il me $19.
McStooge is the one for me, no question.
And I'm an astronaut.
cmhmd @ 92:
I know what socialism is...Do you? I just wanted to see if any of you brain children could advise me of the DIFFERENCE (that means compare and contrast or distinguishing characteristics) between Barack's economic policies and Socialism. HINT: This means you must know what socialism is.
"cmhmd" - this may be difficult for you since the best references for definitions you can give me are mediamatters or wikipedia.
[Alan, it's nice that you know what socialism is, but please study up on how to close your blockquotes, hmm? FIFY, but we're not always here to lend a hand. Most sites won't give you the hand-up on matters such as these. :D Site Monitor]
Alan Stanwyck @ 96:
OK, how about Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
I know your type thinks anything akin to morality, helping the least among us, doing unto others and that kind of stuff is pure socialist bullshit, so let's just agree that you are a selfish conservative (or, excuse me, maybe you're an Ayn Rander - that would explain a lot! LOL) and leave it at that.
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
- John Kenneth Galbraith.
Alan Stanwyck @ 96:
Sorry, but you haven't demonstrated a knowledge either of economics or of socialism. Hence you are able to create such fanciful social systems yourself, such as "a communist socialistic society".
Perhaps that is why you are having such tremendous difficulty telling an economic plan from an entire system of political and social organization.
Alan Stanwyck @ 96:
So what particularly, in your expert opinion, is incorrect about the Wikipedia definition?
To anybody who's watching the convention--
WTF? Where was this John Kerry 4 years ago !?!?
The numbers for the top bracket are a bit deceiving. They represent incomes of 2.87 million and UP--not my tax bracket, BTW.
I'm sure many people taking a quick glance at this would think that people earning just $2.87 million will be paying 700K more under the Obama plan. That is NOT the case. They would be paying in the neighborhood of $325,000 more. The problem is by making not capping income limit you get those pulling down a BILLION in the same group as those merely pulling down millions.
Of course, according to McCain you're not quite rich if you're only bringing in $2.87 million.
A a Democrat, I hold no grudge for a one that succeeds in life as a result of an environment that gave him that chance. However I do have a problem with the
one that succeeds and then pulls the ladder up after himself, thus changing the rules and
removing the very same opportunities for others that he had. The ones that pull up the ladder are the conservatives. The Democrats want the ladder to be available to all who want to use it.
CNN ....... The new Faux Lite. Card carrying member of the Korporate Media!
Socialism isn't a complete disaster if run halfway properly.
Yours Sincerely,
Shan
Resident of the Soviet Socialist State of Australia since 1974.
(Look! Is that *free* health care over there?)
PorridgeGun @ 23:
I'm sure it will be a replay of when he said he wouldn't run for prez. Old news. Things change.
Hey Alan, if you're still around: did you know the government allows a tax deduction for capital losses?
Just wonderin
Rusty "One House" Shackleford @ 105:
Rusty, any relation to Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson?
;-)
Cheers,
[Deleted. Spam. Alan Stanwyck/Neil Boortz, don't post the same comments on multiple threads. That is considered spam. And pick a name and stick with it. We don't tolerate sock-puppeteers, either. Thank you. Site Monitor]
I doubt Obama will decrease taxes. He might increase due to the bad economy and deficits. Politicians promise just to get elected. Folks, wake up!
Edited by l'il me, scroll for the full blather.
Alan Stanwyck @ 89:
I will tell you what socialism is in this country, it is the continued bailout of the greedy fat cats.
They want no government regulation, but then when they have bilked the country of every last red cent, and when through greed and incompetence they have gone bust, they want a government bailout.
In this country they get it, it is fat cat socialism.
Use the rhetorical slime of the hated in this country, word socialism.
It is Corporate Welfare and it is Fat Cat Socialism.
Die a thousand deaths.
Bastards!
"Fat Cat Socialism" can be shortened to "Fascism"
A lot of people got it wrong here. whose money is it? the individuals' or the government's? And wealthy do pay their fair share... but again, why am I arguing here? it is like wrestling with pigs: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Maxine Waters knows a thing or two about socialism
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