Shorter Jon Kyl: because honestly, we need it.

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Senator Jon Kyl, Republican of Arizona, the other one, is certainly a master of the blah blah blah. Here's a helpful summation:

Kyl: Judge, isn't it true that you think having more women and minority judges in America is...gasp...a good thing? How dare you!

Ya know, after the nation watches these hearings, they might logically conclude that having more women and minorities in the SENATE would be an improvement. I know I do.

Full transcript of Kyl's "question" (?) below the fold.

KYL: Thank you for that. Applying some commonality with his view of the law in judging, it's a concept I also disagree with, but in this respect, it is the speeches that you have given, and some of the writings that you have engaged in have raised questions. Because they appear to fit into what the President has described as this group of cases in which the legal process or the law simply doesn't give you the answer. And it's in that context that people have read these speeches and concluded that you believe that gender and ethnicity are an appropriate way for judges to make decisions in cases. Now, that's my characterization.

I want to go back to -- I read your speeches and I read all of them. The one I happened to mark up here was the Seton Hall speech but it was identical to the one at Berkeley. You said this morning that the point of your speeches was to inspire young people. And I think that there's some in your speeches that certainly is inspiring and, in fact, it's more than that. I commend you on several of the things that you talked about, including your own background as a way of inspiring young people. Whether they're a minority or not, regardless of their gender. You said some inspirational things to them. In [?] the cases your purpose was to discuss a different issue.

In fact, let me put it in your words. You said "I intend to talk to you about my Latina identity, where it came from and gender, race, and national orientation representation will have on the development of the law." And then after some preliminary and sometimes inspirational comments, you jumped back to the theme and said "the focus of my speech tonight, however, is not about the struggle to get us where we are and where we need to go but instead to discuss what it will mean to have more women and people of color on the bench." You said no one can or should ignore asking or pondering what it will mean or not mean in the development of the law. You talked -- you cited some people who had a different point of view than yours. You said I accept the proposition as Professor Resnick explains, "to judge is an exercise of power and there is no objective stance, but only a series of perspectives. No neutrality, no escape from choice in judging," you said. "I further accept that our experiences as women and people of color will in some way affect our decisions."

Now, you're deep into the argument here. You've agreed with Resnick there is no objective stance, only a series of perspectives, no neutrality, which just as an aside is relativism run amuck. But then you say, what the professor's quote means to me is not all women or people of color or in all circumstances, but enough women and people of color in enough cases will make a difference in the process of judging. You're talking here about different outcomes in cases. And you go on to substantiate your case by first of all citing a Minnesota case in which three women judges ruled differently than two male judges in a father's visitation case. You cited two excellent studies, which tended to demonstrate differences between women and men in makes decisions in cases. You said, "as recognized by legal scholars, whatever the cause is, not one woman or person of color in any one position, but as a group we will have an affect on the development of law and on judging."

So you develop the theme, you substantiated it with some evidence to substantiate your point of view. Up to that point, you had simply made the case, I think, that judging could certainly reach -- or judges could certainly reach -- different results and make a difference in judging depending on their race or ethnicity. You didn't render a decision on whether they would be better judges or not. But then you did. You quoted Justice O'Connor to say a wise old woman or wise old man would reach the same decisions. You said I'm not sure I agree with that statement. And that's when you made the statement that's now relatively famous. "I would hope a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion."

So here you're reaching a judgment that not only will it make a difference but that it should make a difference. You acknowledge that they made a big difference in discrimination cases but it took a long time to understand -- it takes time and effort. "In short, I accept the proposition that difference will be made by the presence of women and people of color on bench and my experiences will affect the facts that I choose to see. I don't know exactly what the difference will be in my judging but I accept that there will be some based gender and my Latina heritage." You said that you weren't encouraging that. And you talked about how we need to set that aside, but you didn't in your speech say that this is not good. We need to set this aside. Instead you seem to be celebrating it. The clear inference is it's a good thing that this is happening.

So that's why some of us are concerned, first with the [?] [?] in his speech and then this article. It would lead someone to the conclusion that (a) you understand it will make a difference; and (b) not only are you not saying anything negative about that, but you seem to embrace that difference, in concluding that you'll make better decisions. That's the basis of concern that a lot of people have. Please take the time you need to respond to my question.



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81 comments

have no prejudices, huh?! My a$$!!

Kyl goes on to show how much prejudice there is... specifically against gender. There are more women in the world and I hope to hell that one day we realize it and act accordingly. We need to unStepford-wife so many of our sisters before we can act en masse... but I swear to the powers that be, it will come to pass.

are through (or can't be through soon enough!!). I know what you mean about un-stepford wifing our sisters. I see them and I just want to shake them and tell them to wake the hell up.

:)

I with you on this ladies!!

what?! totally lost in his blustering, pontificating, blah-blah-blah...

I've been practicing law for 13 years, and I've rarely heard such a rambling, incoherent argument. I mean, get to the point already -- quit wasting time setting up a strawman which you know she's gonna knock down anyway.

I'm half way through and the guy never shuts TFU. She sounds fabulous, based on his quotes!!!!!

...Now finished. To sum up, he beaks off cuz she's not an old white man. What a dick.

It was demagoguing, pure and simple. I can't imagine that they don't realize what they are doing to their already battered brand yet, like lemmings, they just can't stop themselves going over that cliff.

it seems these confirmation hearings are nothing but a chance for the senator d'jour to get out some sound bites for their respective re-election commercials...

... why the likes of Sessions, Graham, Kyl and Cornyn are entitled to share the same Lebensraum with Judge Sotomayor.

Senator Kyl, how the fuck do you explain the historic disproportionate representation of minorites in all branches of government in our nation?

I truly hate these hypocritical, racist to the core mother fuckers.

... seems to be that only white men can exercise judgment in an appropriately objective manner. Or that minorities are too frakkin' stupid to interpret the law.

for perhaps the only time in his professional life, exposed... even if only inadvertently... the bias these creeps have when he lambasted someone because they "threatened the white, male power structure" in this country.

This is what it's all about for cretins like Sessions and Kyl. Protecting the white, male power structure. The amazing thing for me is the number of women, minorities and whites without any power who feed into this bullshit and support and vote for jerks like... well... Sessions and Kyl.

I applaud Judge Sotomayor for dealing with these questions.

these white male Senators who are bloviating so much are certainly feeling emasculate and threatened by the thought of having another female on the Supreme Court, aren't they?

There's an old saying: "A man of quality is not threatened by a woman of equality."

These guys need to examine their lack of esteem issues.

and what you're saying! I'm finding it both interesting and funny (in a strange way) that these "powerful" men are so threatened by women and people who aren't the same race as they are... it speaks volumes about who they are and what they believe. They're totally transparent and we can see right through 'em!

The white men of the GOP are so intellectually and psychologically bereft even their penis envy is dysfunctional.

... one's background and experience become bias when one cannot recognize it, or separate that experience from an objective ruling on the law.

In other words, what is clearly being demonstrated by the White Boys Club.

... like peas and carrots.

Funny how the gist of the GOP attitude is that Sotomayor must be a bigot because she dares having a different background (and possibly points of view) different than theirs. Sometimes, you just can't make up sh*t like that..

self reflection / knowledge is anathema to Kyl et al.

Why doesn't she just answer with . .

"Look sir I'm not that moron lackey Alberto Gonzales we had to put up with so get over it".

... been about the 'wise Latina' comment and 'oh, god, she's gonna take my guns away!' from Orrin Boobyhatch shows the depth of their knowledge as well as character.

)O(

kyl...kyl...kyl...

You're having flashbacks of your Long Dong Silver videos...

You just seriously put a date on yourself, and I did too for understanding the reference.

Ouch, we're both old.

He keeps his Long Dong Silver videos in an empty Coke can.

)O(
)O(

I knew somebody would offer proof that my observation that the fight scenes in the Bourne trilogy were derivative was accurate.

...with a pubic hair on top.

Any time a conservative claims that the party is not a bunch of bigots and racist all you have to do is go to the tape. These hearings will be here forever. Unlike the slowly dying conservative party.

...than have to pay homage to ignorant racist trash like Graham, Kyl, Sessions, etc. The Democrats on that committe need to start kicking some ass.

Judge Sotomayor is an amazing woman.

... I for one find the complete lack of spine from the Dems when dealing with these vermin kind of appalling to tell you the truth.

I just want to see some passion from the Dems when counteracting the venom that these a**holes spout on a daily basis. The rare occasions that the Dems manage to articulate a response, it is so timid as to render it not only useless but actually worse than that, since it provides an undue validation to the GOP talking point. Since, silence sometimes (if not most of the time) can be seen as a tacit form of agreement.

I can't believe the party of people like Wayne Morse has devolved into the current collection of timid corporate lackeys pretending to be liberal. Ugh...

Instead of stepping up to the plate and saying, "This is wrong, and it's time we move away from these outdated sentiments," they inevitably quail for fear of the old Republican, "Nyah! But Democrats do it, too!"

Right Way: Slavery is wrong.
Wrong Way: Say nothing, because, y'know, even Thomas Jefferson owned slaves.

)O(

Sessions just spoke to the press and he's all a fluster because he's sure the Judge will probably come and take all the guns plus she might work with foreign law and heaven only knows what she has in store about that.

Colbert had a funny line last night. He talked about all the times the republicans mention Estrada. He said what they are saying is they do like hispanics, just not this one (Sotomayor)

I'm so sick of the repubs trying to ask gotcha questions that I can't watch it any more. They're just making fools of themselves and no one is better at that than Sessions and Graham. Graham asked her yesterday how she felt on 9-11 and did she know who was responsible for those attacks. I wish she could have answered, What the fu*k are you talking about? How the hell do you think I felt?

... got hundreds of calls telling her to vote against Sotomayor because she is an activist.
Just the use of that term tells me that those were repugs making those calls.

So?

Feinstein might as well BE a Repug.

They had to be. That's their scary word.

hurl . . . . .

Maybe instead of electing our officials we need to have a committee and ask them questions where they stand on the issues. Then hold their feet to the fire it they go against our wishes. Then maybe they will listen to the people and not the corporations. Maybe we would get people who really care about this country and not their pocket book. Term limits are looking better all the time.

... honest-to-goodness pumpkin time. Your term is up, your pay goes back to whatever you were making in a real job in the real world, you get no special benefits for having served as a legislator.

The only reason we have a bunch of rich thugs sucking at the corporate teat in office is because we let them stay there.

We need to get the money out of lobbying, the public financing of elections, do away with the electoral college and install instant run-off elections.

If you have term limits, the same problem (money) is still there.

Question? What question? I don't see where he asks an actual question.

... there's no correct answer. You just end up with horseshit all over your boots and hands trying to make sense of it.

)O(

Petitio principii uncertain whether or not it's a statement?

... it is just another example of Republicanus Taurofecalum

)O(

Is Taurofecalum any thing like coprolites?

My fragments of Latin are telling me you're saying an even better version of my bovine excreta.

... resembles an aeolipile

)O(

Maybe you need some Beano.

.

And as to his long-winded prologue, if this is about how race and gender affect the development of the law, all you need to do is point to the Fourteenth Amendment, which wouldn't exist if not for the incidence of discrimination against former slaves in the several states.

What a waste of taxpayer money. All those resources, all that staff, and these are the best questions they can formulate?

It’s what’s for breakfast. Choke on it, repugs.

John Kyl has become over the last few years a real, ugly pain in many rear ends especially as he's enabled by McSame, Cornyn, Sessions and Graham. Gifts of burning crosses in his neighbors yard and hand written notes from David Duke's folks lending support for his racist agenda...

He has proven over and over and over he can be an obstructionist and a weasel and as far as we can tell never had to confront emasculation before, but is now....I hear a whaaammm-bulance coming to pick him up....

It is as if Sotomayor believes women and ethnic minorities have the right to express legal opinions that differ from those of white men!

Catastrophe! Disaster! Diversity!

"Senator Jon Kyl, Republican of Arizona, the other one...."
Is there another Arizona?

rings a bell?

Tyler, my question was a rhetorical one, and directed at the poor sentence structure.

"the President is going to seek nominees.... that he is comfortable with... a practice I'm uncomfortable with... blah blah blah"

In other words, Senator Douche Cannon Kyl thinks Obama should choose nominees he is Uncomfortable with and who he Disagrees with... leaves one to wonder what Kyl would do in his place... lol.

Republicans are such frauds.

And how often did we hear, 'the president deserves counsel he feels comfortable with' when they were packing the place with war criminals and graduates of cereal box-top law schools?

Will you remember who you work for?
Will you abandon your race/culture?
Will you rule empathizing with the daily struggles of white males?

OT

Part of Health care passed in Committee, including Public option. It is just one of five pieces to make up the total. Obama got what he wanted.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31921017/ns/polit...

My dad, Federal Judge Carl A. Muecke was a liberal Federal Judge who rose to be the Chief Federal Judge of AZ...hated by the right, and feared by lawyers...he was tough, fair and very well grounded in law...

KYL: If I could just interrupt, I think you just contradicted your speech because you said in the line before that, enough women and people of color in enough cases will make a difference in the process of judging.
Next comment, the Minnesota Supreme Court has given us an example of that. So you did cite that as an example of gender making a difference in judging.
Now, look, I'm not -- I -- I don't want to be misunderstood here as disagreeing with a general look into question -- into the question of whether people's gender, ethnicity or background in some way affects their -- their judging. I suspect you can make a very good case that that is true in some cases. You cite a case here for that proposition.
Neither you nor I probably know whether for sure that was the reason, but one could infer it from the decision that was rendered. And then you cite two other studies.
I am not questioning whether the studies are not valuable. In fact, I would agree with you that it's important for us to be able to know these things so that we are on guard to set aside prejudices that we may not even know that we have.
Because when you do judge a case -- I mean, let me just go back in time. I tried a lot of cases, and it always depended on the luck of the draw, what judge you got; 99 times out of 100 it didn't matter. So what we got? Judge Jones, fine. We got Judge Smith, fine. It didn't matter, because you knew they would all apply the law.
In federal district court in Arizona, there was one judge you didn't want to get. All -- all of the lawyers knew that, because they knew he had predilections that was really difficult for him to set aside. It's a reality. And I suspect you've seen that on some courts, too.
So it is a good thing to examine whether or not those biases and prejudices exist in order to be on guard and to set them aside. The fault I have with your speech is that you not only don't let these students know that you need to set it aside; you don't say that that's what you need this information for. But you're almost celebrating. You think -- you say, if there are enough of us, we will make a difference, inferring that it is a good thing if we begin deciding cases differently.
Let me just ask you one last question here. I mean, can you -- have you ever seen a case where, to use your example, the wise Latina made a better decisions than the non-Latina judges?

None of this is working, though. I think Sotomayor is handling them beautifully - especially Sessions. She talks to him like a parent trying to explain something to a not-so-smart child, which is what he is.

where's the outrage?!?

the man did not have on his suit coat jacket on during those proceedings!

imagine if that had been a dem...

(truly, i do not give a damn)

)O(

Imagine if he didn't have his shirt on.

He'd have to pin his American flag to his nipple.

No problem there. He would just attach it to his nipple ring. It may be difficult for him to decide which ring but he'll manage.

>

for Sotomayor.

)O(

Better than coming out of the zippers.

Just can't understand how anyone would want to be a insensitive, racist, stupid -Ass, Reslug???

I'm just sorry that Sen. Kyl didn't give us the full monte and completed that ridiculously closed minded diatribe by pissing himself.

for men his age. His breasts are tender though.

As a white boy and one who lives in a fairly diverse part of the US, I am incredibly amazed what the Repubs are doing to themselves demographically. They are painting themselves into an ever tightening voting base corner. It appears that Repubs only want White Male Voters to vote for them. You know, the certain white guys who feel threatened by strong independent women, the economically depressed, foreign speakers, and people with darker shades of skin pigment -- the Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck/Sarah Palin cult crowd.

This small "White Boy" base is being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Kyle is nothing but a turd floating in the swimming pool of humanity.

has a 100% approval rating from Focus on the Family.

He also led the charge against a statement condemning the lynchings that were common in the USA until fairly recently.

Remember that one?

I dunno bluegal. Republicans really set the bar during the Thomas proceedings.

As someone who will become an old white man (sooner rather than later) I take notes from people like Kyl.

I find they are useful reminders: DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

These fuckin' white pig-bigots can't STAND the idea that anybody could, can, will or ought to have anything except them.

how the republicans use denial to justify just about anything? The very idea that objective truth is always reached through subjective experience just causes their brains to melt. They claim SUPERIOR impartiality, just one of the many claims of SUPERIORITY over minorities. It is disgusting to behold.

Does the republican party now consist entirely of wealthy, older white men from the South with white hair? Every time I hear something outrageous on the TV, I look up and there's that shock of white hair and the Southern drawl. Look kids, a republican!

What is it that makes Arizona choose such knuckleheads as their senators? Something about the place is screwing up their judgement. Oh well...if Virginia could come to its senses and turn blue, maybe maybe there's hope for Arizona.

81 comments

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