Open Thread
By bluegal Wednesday Oct 14, 2009 7:30pmTomorrow is Blog Action Day: this year's topic is climate change. I always find it useful in "debates" over this issue to bring up the topic of "clean air for my children." Global Warming debaters don't know how to counter that one.
Open Thread below....
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Robert Schmidt, Bloomberg here
Maybe the Pope of Hope will wag his finger at them and they'll stay in line.
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Environment News Service here
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Oh brother, the push is on for carbon dioxide capture, they use the euphemism 'sequestration' but there is no certainty of what to do with it. One proposal is to pump it to the bottom of the ocean where in theory it will stay. I think it is a horrible risk. What it does is to encourage us to continue burning fossil fuel at the voracious pace we are at, when that is itself unsustainable. Greed is the primary engine of this folly.
ENS here
This article is way to sanguine about CO2 capture.
Core samples from the GreenLand IceCap reveal an upsurge in the amount of lead in tha atmosphere at precisely the time the Romans were smelting and using great quantities of lead.
Lead poisoning within the upper class - who drank wine from pitchers and goblets made of lead - is one of the factors often cited for contributing to the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.
"Maybe the Pope of Hope will wag his finger at them and they'll stay in line."
Sure they'll stay in line, with their hands out and their armored cars open waiting for the next round of fraud & theft to begin..!
Amitola, I love your mind. Especially when you come along so quickly to make necessary completions in my unfinished thought…
Calvin Trillin here
He forgets to mention the crooks.
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Janet Tavakoli doesn't forget the crooks and nails them pretty well, via Karl Denninger here
With Brian Lamb from 4/20/09 here
With Max Kaiser via Edward Harrison here, he also includes a link to a Steve Keen interview which is informative.
pretty much like all of your posts. Saves me a lot of surfing... Unfortunately, I don't have time to read them all right away or the energy to stay up 'til 2.am. every morning to continue on the open thread.
Trillin's article is 'cute' and you're right he left out the crooks. But, apparently all of them didn't go to Wall Street - I've noticed quite a few of them in insurance companies and oil companies and in and around the halls of Congress, etc.
And, who in their right mind could ever even conceive that dumping CO2 into the ocean could be a good idea??? Yikes!
I was thinking about that for a few more minutes and I had the image of these giant sequestration 'thingies' at the bottom of the ocean springing a leak and belching a guzillion tons of CO2 into the ocean, which would in turn, burst up through the surface and cause a tsunami high enough to wash Washington DC right off the map. Yikes! I can dream....
It's for real!
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/mhalb/nyos/nyos.htm
I'd never heard of that before. Maybe 2012 will get here before they can get started on all these stupid projects, and all the wing-nuts will be raptured away....
it won't be to a good place.
Try to watch the Brian Lamb interview with Janet Tavakoli when you have time, she is really good.
"And, who in their right mind could ever even conceive that dumping CO2 into the ocean could be a good idea??? Yikes!"
What, you've never swept dirt under the carpet? Or, as my daughter used to say when we were teaching her to flush the toilet: Gone-gone! What smatter with you and Alice? Don't you want the CO2 to be gone-gone?
that is effective and carbon neutral/negative is photosynthesis.
You will find that a lot of the AGW skeptics were very aware and keen green fighters on clean air/water/enviroment long before the newbie AGW zealots even knew what green was all about.
Go Google "chemical munitions dumped in coastal waters" for some easy bed time reading.
GW is a very useful smokescreen to distract worried people from the real corporate/gov pollution of OUR environment.
Safe to eat the fish
Expanding the job market
Oct. 14: The U.S. Chamber of Commerce launched its “Campaign for Free Enterprise” Wednesday morning with the goal of creating 20 million jobs over the next ten years. Tom Donahue, president and CEO of group, and Jonathan Capehart of the Washington Post join Morning Meeting to discuss.
Democrats caught hell from the extreme right at Town Halls in August.
Look at how the right wing is treating Republicans at Town Halls now:
THE RINO HUNT IS ON!
into at least two separate, but equally useless parties.
"separate, but equally useless" - I like it.
"Sure, her blazer says 'stuffy Republican', but her skirt says 'maybe bipartisan-curious'..."
I hear right afte Snowe voted for the Baucus Bill, the RNC started demanding to see her birth certificate. Many in the RNC believe she was born in Kenya too. /snark
Mock away.
http://www.gop.com/index.php/learn/what_we_be...
I find it funny when I hear or read about people on the right either making fun of environmentalists by calling them "tree-huggers" or other derogatory names because they are trying to protect our environment/trees from needless destruction. I mean, if they hate trees so much then why do they have them (trees) in their yards, try to park under them for shade, like to go camping in the "woods" or other such endeavors? The only reasoning I can come up with is that instead of a brain inside their skull, it's filled with mush or pudding or possibly even human excrement...if you know what I mean?
But people are always too keen to remove that one tree that ruins their view or is awkward for access or drops too many annoying leaves. People play the house hopping game, buying and selling and moving every few years, and wifey or hubby wants that one tree gone, so they chop down that tree that took thirty years to mature, then they move.
So tree become scare in urban streets and peoples front gardens.
positive thing I can say is that the number of "damn tree-huggin' hippy" comments have dropped to nearly zero in the last couple of years. When I first started in the field over 15 years ago, it was almost daily I'd get some sort of comment like that.
Somehow, the message about trees and the importance of preserving the environment is getting through to more people, or else the morons are just learning to shut the f*ck up.
It fascinates me how the words "conservative" and "conservationist" literally mean more or less the same thing, but as political labels designate two groups pretty much opposed to each other.
I imagine there are conservatives who are also conservationists, but I wager their numbers are few.
Anything seen as cutting into profits and power is seen as evil by conservatives. They truly eat their own as is displayed by the Teabaggers going after Sen. Lindsay Graham.
Reagan's Interior Secretary James Watt was completely hostile to environmentalism. It was said he was a born again Christian who believed the second coming was to be then, very soon, so why bother with the Earth. Reagan's EPA director Anne Gorsuch was equally bad.
That is the way some of them think.
Here we are nearly thirty years later.
We have a much better view of the crap hitting the fan, and the fact that it may just too late for our continued well being on this Earth.
Kudos for remembering Watt – one of the original Repub apparatchiks.
This is the guy who banned the Beach Boys because that “rock and roll” attracts the wrong element.
“Drill, baby, Drill” originated from his office, only worse: "We will mine more, drill more, cut more timber."
"I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple.” – referring to his staff.
Watt was a putz.
..I get right in their face and say, "Of course I am, I'm an air breather, and I sure as hell can't survive by trying to breathe the flatuence that spews from your ignorant pie hole".
A treehugger.....
Naughty Pines are my favorite.
I just need something not political and kinda neat after a lot of the horrible crap here today.
Rock Wall in Vegas
undercover cop in drag who first performs the deeds, then busts the johns...
...and ya gotta love that Butters (an his bitches).
I planted two this week!
edit: that was in response to FastFeat, and somehow ended up at the bottom of the thread. I never seem to get the placement right.
Not only that, I got a group of trees designated Heritage trees in my hood, so it's hard to cut them down, and the city has to send an arborist out to take care of them at least once a year.
I've planted 4 trees around my apartment building over the years, and one of the Italian Cypresses started out as a gallon size, and now it's 12-15 ft tall.
My neighbour and I are going to dig up a stretch of concrete down the road and plant some trees there in a few months (Acer 'Sangu Kaku')
American beech here in a nature park that is 40" trunk diameter and about 110' tall and a Southern red oak of similar dimensions at the city cemetery. This town (Suwanee) was incorporated, I think, in the 1850s.
but does more small trees produce more oxogen than 1 large tree or is that large tree just getting old and should die after a certain time on earth.
trees produce more oxygen than ones that have reached maturity, and certainly more than ones that are in decline. This varies by species and the site conditions on which the tree grows. Long-lived, large-growing species like oaks, beech, Ficus (in tropical/subtropical areas) can remain healthy and viable for hundreds of years. Sadly, human encroachment (and subsequent root damage to existing trees) causes most trees to live far shorter lives in urban environments. :(
In an urban environment, it's generally best to have more younger trees than a few big old trees for oxygen generation. Of course, mature, heritage trees are valuable for other reasons as well.
"...but does more small trees produce more oxogen than 1 large tree or is that large tree just getting old and should die..."
Sounds like a question only an Obama Death Panel could answer.
... that the trees and other plants assure that we have oxygen to breathe?
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I know...
... Let's cross check it then.
IF CO2 IS LIFE...
... TRY LIVING FOR 24 HOURS WITH A PLASTIC BAG OVER YOUR HEAD.
Then we'll talk about the trees!
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(or large trees), try working with schools in your neighborhoods. They've often got lots of open, unshaded areas, but usually with irrigated turf, that will assure trees get at least some water. Plus, getting kids involved in the planting process helps
indoctrinateget kids interested in the environment. There's likely to be some bureaucracy involved (some areas are more restrictive than others--SoCal sucked, Miami area was great), but nothing motivated C&L'ers probably couldn't handle...of the trees. We're getting a plaque and having a party in the spring. It's a Lombardy Poplar and 2 or 3 weeping willows. This is where Boeing started out.
You planted the big trees? How long ago?
I got them protected, so the people whose views are blocked by them can't petition to have them cut down. I think the Poplar is probably 80 years old, older than me by a long shot.
to see how big they were in the 30s
I won't put the map location of my place and my trees, because I don't want all y'all showing up for coffee, or asking to use the toilet. No offense... :D. any way, google did this a year or two ago, and my tree has grown a lot bigger since.
non-pay toilets to get me to come to Seattle this time of year. Maybe a couple of big king salmon...:)
it's the REST of the internet I'm worried about.
trash trucks and street sweepers don't rip low branches off though. Better to have them pruned with a a saw than a semi...
Eighty seems a little old; poplars (and willows) are pretty short-lived (but fast growing). Forty to fifty years is pretty typical lifespan for both. But they look good now. Congrats on your efforts :)
Gotta hit it; up for work in four hrs. GMA...
those and big leaf maples. the trunks are gnarly though, and that would be about right for the hood, that area...
The willows are younger. They would be allowed to be planted today with the city's rules. I for one am glad. I'm all for right tree right place.
Had lots in Portland area as well. Will never make the mistake of trying to pick seeds of that tree without gloves again...
I have trees all over the place. I planted several growing up; maples, sunburst locust, blossoms. Some of them are about 50' tall now. I had a potted maple in Korea, which I passed along. I've planted elms and pines and spruce, and lots more that weren't "mine". They're in 3 different cities. I like to go back and see them-- so big now!!!
Eighty-five thousand Iraqis died just from the civil war. So much for Redstone being in better economic shape after supporting Bush over Kerry. So it's ok to allow a weight-loss pill which causes heart attacks be available over-the-counter, but the FDA will be damned if it lets Nyquil put Vitamin C in its cough syrup. One billion people around the world are hungry. R.I.P. Windtalker. Brown loves endless war. Waddya know? Insurers lie. A watchdog group says Geithner did a heckuva job at oversight. Female inmates in Oklahoma claim the governor's servants raped them. How "safe" is Pakistan? Colorado decides to lower minimum wage rates in response to deflation, while Obama wants seniors to get an extra $250 for social security. A federal judge gives the ok for the lawsuit against Prop. 8 to continue. The lack of jobs at home mean more people signing up to be targets, er troops. The Senate's the only hold-out on anti-homophobic hate crime laws. What rebound? Is it really just another bubble? Good bye to the Arctic ice in 2029. Stalin's grandkid would make a good neo-con. Ford now has to recall 4.5 million vehicles which can start fires. The Nobel jurors explain their decision on the peace prize. Teachers and laborers benefited most from the stimulus. Suck-ass thinks that his health care bill and our system aren't "broke". Obama will make sure the DOJ enforces gay rights. Perry continues to be a dick. No wonder the Bushies didn't want to criticize Dubya. They were hoping for book deals.
... that it is high time:
'Finally fed up with Orly Taitz's repeated frivolous and conspiracy-ridden filings in a Birther lawsuit, the judge in the case has fined the crusading attorney $20,000."
TPM
What's interesting is the judge was a Bush appointee.
but I think the clean air has to be for all of us. Using children as an excuse doesn't cut it with me. Using, "For the children," is a lousy excuse for cleaning up our acts and is misused in too many other extremes like, "No abortions or contraceptives, you gotta save the children."
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W H Y
D O N'T
A M E R I C A N S
D E S E R V E
A F F O R D A B L E
H E A L T H
C A R E
?
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I hope that within tomorrows needed coverage of CLIMATE CHANGE, there is at least a thread about the Weiner Amendment Vote that is occurring.
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Not really surprising, but Klebold's mom indirectly admits she was an idiot. China's better off than us. Arnie's even more unpopular than before. Foreclosures went up. Unsafe abortions kill 70,000 a year. McCain's ex-adviser doesn't think much of Palindrone, but continues to defend picking her as a running mate.
Reminds me of how much I miss George Carlin. Kudos to you. Well said.
Don't fuck with people during hard times. About 7,500 people turn themselves in as tax cheats. Bush refused to believe in global warming, even when his rigged EPA agreed with the scientific evidence for it. Obama's administration claims to be neutral on Bush-era wire-taps, even as it challenges lawsuits against it. Obama visits New Orleans.
Being a hapless resident of the southern half of Bobby Jindal's state -- the half that elected and probably will reelect, David Vitter -- I am struck with the irony in all those folks being disappointed by "the brevity" of the President's visit. Did I say irony? I meant hypocrisy! Bad, bad socialist, gimme, gimme, gimme!
PS--That goes for Mississippi too.
National Organization of Wombats?
( and if you ever tell anyone that i will kick your g/d ass ) ,
Desiree Jennings and her flue shot , heartbreaking pure and simple , what a travesty .
With age comes the understanding of sorrow .
It is as plain as day. Harry Reid can add a robust Public Option on his own to the Health Care Bill. Then the Senate will need 60 votes to REMOVE the Public Option from the bill. If Harry Reid leaves the Public Option out then it will take 60 votes to put it in. The whole Public Option concept depends on what Harry Reid does. Call Harry Reid's office right now and tell him he needs to include a robust Public Option concept in the final Senate bill since the Public Option concept will control health care costs for the consumers. Without the Public Option Harry Reid has sold out the average American. It is all dependent on Harry Reid's actions!
Harry Reid is trying to hide from this responsibility. Do not let him off the hook!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMSAnZR2Q8Q
one group was standing in front of that tree to protect it.
and one group was screaming "jobs not trees".
Over the centuries that followed a hard lesson was learned.
No kind words for Geitner, Congress and the WH.
Go get 'em Eliot
NessSpitzer!No shit!
I recall hearing Chomsky say that in fact when we overthrew the Taliban is when Afghanistan again became a leading exporter of Opium. The Taliban were actually banning such production. Here are two references, one from Michael Rupert, who is kind of out there with some of his 911 theories but still does some good research:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_...
and a US State Department analysis:
http://www.state.gov/www/regions/sa/facts_tal...
his not getting his Rams ownership deal today, coplaining it was all part of a WH plan to involve itself into collective bargaining process. And of course, they're all a bunch of bitter, hateful people just picking on rush, self-described as "NFL's biggest fan." ROTFLMAO!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/colu...
it with vitamin C makes benzene, a know carcinogen. That is why vitamin C cannot be in most cough syrups. It should not be in soda, either, but it is. Chemicals. The next war.
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