We had quite a discussion among the C&L staff about this yesterday. Some said it's egalitarian to refer to the President of the United States by his first name. I disagree, and though I did call George Bush a few names in the past eight years, I didn't call him George or even, very often, Dubya. How do you feel about the whole "Barack" thing? President-Elect Obama's team uses it in outgoing email.
And this is an open thread, too.
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I would never call Obama by his first name. I think it lacks respect and I think it is too familiar. That's just me.
Check out this video. It is very thought provoking and a great analogy to life today. At first, it will thoroughly piss you off, but watch it through to the end. I think it's amazing.
I would like to wish every person here at C&L a very, very Happy Thanksgiving. I hope each and every one of you has a lot to be thankful for.
We have a competent President Elect that we can be proud of and will instill hope in our democracy again.
And I cannot say just how thrilled I am about it. Our highest elected official able to actually speak in complete and accurate sentences. Wow.
I am so thrilled that he seems calm and thoughtful and doesn't seem to have a personal agenda. But what a huge huge mess he is inheriting.
and he's already at work.
Some stuff you can't make up!
He makes the point well. Reductio ad absurdum.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I kept asking myself...Is this fake? No, this HAS to be fake...doesn't it? Honestly, I thought it was the real deal until the last 45 seconds or so.
How are you? Long time no talk.
I've been in and out for the last 10 days or so. I missed quite a few open threads. I now have 276 non-spam emails to get through. Guess what I'm doing this weekend. I'm actually fine cause it looks like a little personal contact in the field is going to generate some business. On the downside some a-hole broke into my garage while I was gone and boosted my brand new snow-blower. Around here that's not a fashion accessory and damn if I can find another one.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I am so sorry to hear about your snowblower. Pop into Detroit. I bet you can get one there.
And I hope the business generation goes well. That's one reason I won't ever complain about my whacked out travel schedule. I am working and me and the pooch have a roof over our head.
I have no problem calling him Barack. It lends a human dimension to him, sort of an "everyman" kinda thing.
In the same "everyman" vein, I think it perfectly acceptable calling President Bush "idiot."
If the shoe fits....
I have called Bush much worse than idiot. Treasonous criminal, for one.
I'm not wild about the first name familiarity thing either but to deny that it's here is to ignore the ettiquette shift. "Jimmy" Carter,"Bill" Clinton, and , of course "the pair of Dicks" Nixon and Cheney.
Culture marches on.
After all, it's what we New Yorkers do with our elected officials. When Mario Cuomo was governor, you could shout across the street to him, "Hey, Mario, how's Matilda?" And he'd answer that she's fine. You could call all our New York City mayors by their first name, they just understood it was how New Yorkers are. Okay, so you won an election. Don't let it go to your head. It doesn't mean you're automatically "better" than me. You're not the king. Do your job right and we'll be happy with you.
Be good, Barack. Be good.
Fancy meeting you here!!
bakatcha, MsJoanne the Globtrotter!
Some stuff you can't make up!
if the left side of the brain controls the right sid of the body,
then only left-handed people are in their right minds.
:<[)
Some stuff you can't make up!
I loved that! Perfect, perfect, perfect!
I think calling him by his first name is a great idea. Barack.
It brings the concept of POTUS much closer to the people. Finally, perhaps, Americans will have a competent REPRESENTATIVE government, and Barack should highlight the fact.
see below
Some stuff you can't make up!
Wall Street continues to get aroused by a bad economy. Karzai ain't impressed by the U.S. or the U.N. Remember not to abuse MySpace. Yesterday's news, but a judge in FL threw out a state ban on gay adoption. Bush can't tell the difference between Sunni or Shiite or Christians and Jews. Colleges are forced to put out a new cap on student enrollment, because they don't have the funding to teach all of them right now. Not that they have anything useful to teach anyone nowadays, but still...
Mumbai under terrorist attack - will there be an article on this?
Joe Biden certainly was right. Even though this event may not have been to test Barack Obama specifically per se, it will be something he has to deal with. Odds are very high more events like this will be coming somewhere in the world, sadly.
If anything, it'll prove how wrong and incompetent Bush has been all this time about the war. I can't imagine any Republiscum trying to argue that "It proves we're winning" now.
but you can bet that no one is looking for leadership from boosh.
Some stuff you can't make up!
It's up to the editors when they schedule it.
Regards, C
He works for us, after all.
Of course if I ever met him, I would call President Obama just that, or Mr. President; that's just correct etiquette for people who are not his family or personal friends. In my mind, though, I think of him as Obama, as if he had only one name, and it feels like an affectionate nickname. All my friends call him Obama when they mention him in e-mail or conversations -- that, or simply "O."
But I think it's wonderful that people think of him by his first name too, because that also denotes affection for him.
that once Barack is inaugurated, pretty much everyone will be addressing him as Mister President. Trying to address him now is awkward - saying Mister President-Elect just takes too darn long.
But really, I don't care what his preferred moniker will be, as long as he moves our country ahead and instills/restores honesty, integrity
to the office, and our reputation as a good people throughout the world.
Happy Thanksgiving!!
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
... how many of you recall that the Current Occupant insists that even old friends address him as "Mr. President" even though they had been used to calling him George for 30 years or more? Poor insecure little thing.
What a refreshing change that staffers can think of their new boss as, affectionately, Barack.
I hadn't heard that before. How creepy is that. Insecure in spades.
The more the media call him "Barack," the more used to this "foreign" name the American public will get, and that's a good thing.
of parents naming there offspring 'Barack' soon, if it hasn't started happening already.
me-oww!
But within hours of Obama winning, something like six newborns in Africa were named Barack.
dumbfuck, dipshit, shit-for-brains, Preznit numb nuts, dumbya. These are all terms I've used to refer to the current prez. If the up and comer refers to himself using his Christian name, then game on. I really don't give a rats...
Though I do cringe a bit when I hear partisan GOoPers refer to him as 'barack' and not 'our savior who i and my party hath forsaken'. Sorta like when they say the 'democrat' party... only tenfold.
I don't refer to anybody by titles, last name only or Mr. or Mrs. at most. I prefer to talk to everyone at the same level, whether my neighbor or a high muckity-muck.
The biggest asshats I ever meet are those who demand to be called by titles, such as "doctors" and "professors". It shows just how insecure they are. Those who are really knowledgable and mature don't use titles, they've gone beyond them.
Those who demand respect usually are the least deserving of it.
I once heard a radio piece by one of Pres. Clinton's writers. He noted that people who have a chance to speak with the President, even briefly and only once, are afflicted with something like an ultra-polite Reverse Tourette syndrome. They seem to work "Mr. President" into almost every sentence. It's not that it's protocol, or that he needs to hear it, or even wants to hear it. (Present occupant excepted.) It's that they're mentally hugging themselves over the thrill of hearing their own voice saying "Mr. President" to the real guy.
I'd bet a big shiny nickel that if given the chance, you'd do the same thing. I know I would.
The SCOTUS will be looking at the whole birth certificate thing (whether they will specifically address Obama's birth cert, is yet to be determined). Check out this and this.
Oh, and this is today's totally wicked awesome cool ass site.
is being built here in the good old US of A.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Freedom Tower to go up at Ground Zero...and a couple of others.
Both of his names are unusual enough to me, that neither sound too personal. Though if his name was Bob, it would seem weird to me if his staff was sending out mail saying "Bob says..." or "Bob wants to..."
Here are 10 myths conservatives believe about progressives.
It was back in the late 70s when it became politically incorrect to talk about politics at parties or family gatherings. Look where that has gotten us. If we don't talk, nobody will be aware of what's wrong, be it right wing or progressive.
to internalize that there are so many people out there who do not have a clue...or worse yet, have the wrong clue from the likes of Fox or Rush.
Their only source of information because they don't talk about what matters. When I am with my family, I always get critisized for talking politics.
to interject things softly around some people. It's tough getting through sometimes.
I don't say anything until they bring something up. Then, I can always say, "Hey, you brought it up."
Yeah, it's tough talking politics to some people. I, alone, have managed to piss off an entire little tiny racist town in Northern Texas. For the last year, I've received emails from people in this town with horrible things said about Barack and finally I had enough. I wrote back and said it was really time for them to get past their "back of the bus mentality" and maybe they could see the brilliance in this man. Well, hellooooo, the whole town is not speaking to me because I (whispers) "voted for a black man". To which I respond "Bite me". So much for the intellectual dialogue.
One of the things I love about family get togethers is the loud, often heated discussions about politics, life the universe and everything. It used to take quite a while to break in a new in-law. Of course I have eight siblings so we used to outfit the newbees with hearing protection for the first couple of rounds.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
My ex husband used to always complain that my dad and I were arguing. I kept telling him that we were doing no such thing! We were having a passionate discussion. Not once were my father and I upset with each other. We were just animated and would raise our voices as we got into whatever we were talking about.
He never got it.
His family was just like that. I always got on with them quite well.
Go figure.
to the fourth power you'll have an idea what we have at Thanksgiving and Christmas. It's a riot.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Sounds like a blast! (btw, since you have never heard my deep [dare I say very sexy], and projective voice [speaking before 300 people will do that]...perhaps 3rd power. :) )
Youuuu loooook sexxyyy!
You flatter me greatly. Thank you ever so kindly.
Just being honest dear.
I am wholly average...if that. But I will always accept a very nice compliment. So, thank you again.
And...moving on.
Here's that quiz Peter was talking about. If you didn't take it the other night.
US Civics Quiz (which includes some business questions)
Jeez, I've got some reading to do...
You answered 28 out of 33 correctly: 84.85%
Average score for this quiz during November: 77.9%
Average score: 77.9%
Most of my misses were in the business section, since I've only ever been a wage slave all my life. But I did miss the First Amendment question! (hangs head in shame)
over at Onegoodmove this afternoon. Do you ever go there? It's one of the cooler blogs if you're into books, science or philosophy.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I never heard of it. What is the URL? I tried onegoodmove.com and it didn't work.
On the left. I think you'd like it. Norm has a keen sense of humor.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
and I do so love a good sense of humor!!
so I'm going to say GNA. I see though, I've got some e-mails to catch up on tomorrow. As Arnold would say:"I'll be back"
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Please, don't be a stranger.
Here you go MsJoanne: http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/
Thus far, me likey!
civic literacy test. I missed questions ten and thirty-three. If I wasn't dopey from travel I would have gotten the last question. Not bad for a frostback I think.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Civic Literacy Test (with some business questions thrown in)
I took this test the other day and got, what, four wrong? So, I took it again, and still got two wrong.
WTF is wrong with me??
You answered 31 out of 33 correctly — 93.94 %
Average score: 78.0%
Answers to Your Missed Questions:
Question #4 - on slavery
Question #15 - separation of church and state
AAARRRRGHHHHHH!
I got 73%. I'm a Canadian, but does that still make me dumb?
3 mistakes. Not bad for a furriner.
Regards, C
Myth no. 11: liberals drink Pepsi.
Liberals have a well-developed sense of taste, and therefore overwhelmingly prefer Coke to Pepsi.
Here we go again.
Honey, come talk to me when you acquire some good taste.
(sigh) And to think I once thought so highly of you!
Happy Thanksgiving, MsJoanne!
and yours.
Neither go well with Jack Danials or Crown Royal.
Gross!!
At least on this we agree!
We're not repugs.
I drank way, way too much one night, of way too many different types of alcohol which cured me of ever drinking whiskey or bourbon ever. Even the smell makes me puke in my mouth a little bit. (I have a funny story about an ex boyfriend and our discussion of relationship deal breakers. He drank CR and I gagged at the smell one night. He told me if i puked in his mouth, that was a deal breaker. Heh.)
LOL!
For me, the deal breaker would be if I was asleep and you puked in my mouth.
Not a nice way to wake up...
I have much better (and fun) ways to wake a man up!! And a rainbow shower is NOT in the top 1 million.
Damn it woman.
HI -yo!! In the name of science, please elaborate.....
....you sultry wench, you.
FYI, a tasty winter treat is Kahlua and hot chocolate...
Some things are best experienced. I couldn't possibly tell all of my secrets. (Now all I need is a guy to practice on!! Practice makes perfect, donchano.)
A standard Groucho Marx joke:
One night Groucho was traveling with his secretary and due to a mixup, their hotel only had one room left, but it did have two beds. At one point in the night, his secretary complained about being cold because the window was open. Groucho replied, "For just tonight, how would you like to pretend you were my wife?" When the secretary said she'd like that, he said, "Great! Get up and close the damn window yourself" and went back to sleep.
She should have said, sure, then crawled into bed with him and put her freezing cold feet all over him. :-)
BRRRRRR! Have you been trading secrets with my wife?
It is in the girl contract!
I KNEW it! Sort of like the "You must put the toilet seat down, but I NEVER have to return the car seat to the position that allows you to get in the car without major contortions" memo.
If you know too much, she will have to kill you.
Be afraid...be very, very afraid!
Uh oh...I'll just have to feign ignorance (fortunately, not a difficult task!)
Hey, here we go with that "amazing shrinking reply box" phenomenon...
I'll just have to feign ignorance (fortunately, not a difficult task!)
Well, of course. You, uhm, ARE a man.
(running, ducking and LMAO)
It's called "blissful ignorance." The truest male statement is the bewildered, "What??" For incredibly funny - and dead on true - explanations of "guyness," read Dave Barry's Complete Guide to Guys. He says (and I quote): "For all those women who wonder just what is going on in the mind of their guy, it can be summed up in two words: not much." I think women secretly envy the inherent simplicity that is guyhood. "Huh?" is a perfectly acceptable contribution to conversation among us.
I love Dave Barry. But I gotta say, my dog pretty much does that, too.
..and that's why a dog is man's best friend!
Woman's too!
Uh-oh, I could be revealing the Secret "Man's code" - that is, if any guy is actually monitoring this and not out looking for beer or thinking up new fart jokes.
Wow, it's late. Good night, MsJoanne! Have a great Turkey Day!
and yours, dear. Have a wonderful day.
I, too, am going to hit the sack.
I like a good fart joke! I still giggle like a kid.
Txt bx 2 sml 2 cmnt
Perhaps this holiday season would be the time to try enjoying a cup of invigorating, healthy spicy chai tea, instead of the carbonic acid infused sugar water.
And I only drink diet PEPSI...and tons and tons of coffee...the true elixir of life.
The only thing that is the true elixer. Coffee, coffee, coffee.
indeedy!
Does Kahlua count as coffee? (Man, I'm seeing a sad pattern....)
as is Amaretto and Baileys...preferably all three mixed with a little Godiva chocolate liqueur and if i am feeling especially martiniesqe, I will toss in some Chambourd.
Love coffee, but switched to munching cacao nuts (raw chocolate.) Nicer buzz, super nutritious. Food of the gods!
Actually, my preferred beverage is fermented grain. That way I can rationalize drinking lots of it (hey,it's organic AND I'm supporting American farmers!)
But when I try to articulate this, it usually comes out like, "Hey...izz orgrownich and Iamm sporting murrcan fommoz....ASSHOLE!"
So, yeah, I don't make many diplomatic points.
Nice. You must be fun at parties, eh?
...only when I draw political figures on my kneecaps and do "the Washington Ballet."
No, real liberals drink Cokes from Mexico that use REAL sugar and not that high fructose corn syrup shit.
...As far as soda and Crown Royal, use Trader Joe's Italian blood orange soda. I call it the "Bloody Crown". Fantastic drink, if a wee bit expensive.
Wow, thank you for posting this link, MsJoanne. What a wonderful article! Nobody raised their voice in my family; they never learned how to disagree without hating or totally rejecting the other person. (And these were lifelong Democrats.) It took me decades to learn this. I'm forwarding this link to friends of mine who have conservative family members and could use tips on how to handle disagreements.
You are quite welcome. Happy Turkey Day!
And, were they saying this was a bad thing?
Absolutely not!! Calling the next president by his first name shows a total lack of disrespect. Don't get me wrong, I am glad for our new president-elect, but even during the campaign, it should've been Senator Obama or Mr. Obama, but never by his first name. When a person achieves high office, there is a distance that's created by virtue of the title.
Sorry. There's no virtue in having a title, nor high office. The Emperor's New Clothes is more like it. Or CEO's New Private Jets. If no offense is given, then no offense need be taken.
"a total lack of disrespect"???
So that would be a total presence of respect, right? Cause that's what that phrase means.
Whatever.
Oh man...tears, tears.
h/t: They gave us a republic. There are a couple of other great news stories at the last link (just above). Check them out...especially the one about the two Iraq vets who were made by local police to lick what was supposed to be urine off the street. Sick, sick shit. I wish them luck in their lawsuit.
I was going to post my Michael Reagan email on this thread but now I think I'm just going to sit back and think about what a wonderful person Monique White is and wishing I had the means to do something like that.
Putting up a letter from Michael Reagan after that post just somehow doesn't seem appropriate.
I put it in the Michael Reagan thread down stream (on the main page).
And you are welcome. :-)
Using a president's name rather than saying "the President" or President So-and-so is a matter of preference, even when it comes to journalism.
Theodore Roosevelt was called "Teddy" by nearly everyone. He absolutely despised the nickname, but he almost never grumbled about it in public.* It was a battle he couldn't win and he knew it.
* A journalist once shouted "Teddy! Teddy!" to him and his response was, "Outrageous impertinence!"
One of my favourite movies is "The American President" with Michael Douglas & Annette Benning. It's a movie with a story for anybody contemplating the highest office in the country. Your life is not your own.
The President and his Chief of Staff are playing pool. The President plays a good shot and the following happens...
"Good Shot Mr. President..."
"Good Shot Mr. President? You won't even call me Andy while we're playing pool? You were best man at my wedding fer christ sake...call me Andy!"
"I will not do it playing pool,
I will not do it out of school,
I do not like Green eggs and ham
I will not do it Sam I am"
It's called respect for the office and the person presiding over that office. Something that's respected by most everybody that understands what goes with the position of the most powerful person on the planet.
Having said that....Dubya is a fuck-knuckle.
:)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
This entire election has been about change and part of that change is how one sees their president. This "president elect" wants us all to have a stake in the future of this country. We all do of course but thus far he is the only one sticking his neck out.
I submit that it is actually a sign of support to call him by the less than his first name. Ike didn't mind after all.
He says, "This is Barack." Great! It's up to him.
If I met him, I'd say, Mr. President, because of his office. If he says, "Call me Barack," I'd say, "Yes, sir, Barack. Mr. President."
Please don't get into a crazy fit about this. It's not worth it.
comfortably call him Barack. I would do what you said, but probably say something like "Ok, Barack, sir." And then just stick with sir.
I am pretty old fashioned in some of my thinking (yeah, yeah, yeah...I know what many of you who "know" me are thinking...but I am.)
And you are quite right about hi calm demeanor. He is just what we need right now.
Historically using a first name for a Black MAN was a "polite" way of calling him "boy"...it wasn't so long ago that Jesse Jackson was ALWAYS referred to as Jesse and never Jackson...then there's the whole Dr./Nurse(a female profession by-and-large) Hmm, Hilary...that's complicated, since Clinton was already "taken" No, wait that's pre 9-11 thinking...
Oh please....calling him "Barack" is merely humanizing him and making him seeingly more approachable.
Methinks you doth protest too much, .....Dr./Mr./Sir Irishdave3
I wasn't complaining..merely pointing out the "historical' fact of Racism in Murica...BTW, the only other time I have been accused of "protest(ing) too much in writing was by Ben Bradlee when I pointed out that Mike Echanis was a CIA operative in Nicaragua...lol you can call me Dave....we Irish(O'Bama) are very informal, in that way
OK guys! Why do we keep talking about Barack the guy? C'est un fait accompli! It's doen he got there where we wanted him. Did anybody ever said, Bush the white guy? I said something like: That dumb ass. Anyway the man is in. I love him. I was crazy about Hillary. My son talked some sense into me. I thank him for that. And I wish all the luck you deserve: Mr. President.
The Obama family doesn't want their daughters to be like those in the Bush family.
He broke down the wages and benefits of the UAW workers.
First story right here. http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/
..now that you have achieved the office of President of the United States of America-- and earned it.
From now on, I will call you "Mr. President".
But it's all in the way it's said and by whom it's said. What has bothered me for a while is "Barry." It started as a put down by the Hillabots but it's gained traction through the McCain campaign and onward through the haters.
But to heck with it. I gave no respect whatsoever to "President" Bush - but President Elect Barack Hussein Obama was actually elected by the people. Go figure...
And I absof#%$inglutely love using his middle name.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
especially when talking to a wingnut. Reminding them over and over that Barack Hussein Obama is going to be THEIR PRESIDENT!
That just doesn't get old --- I think I'll still be doing it on his last day in office in January 2017. After that I'll just keep telling them how great THEIR PRESIDENT Barack Hussein Obama was (and that his popularity was XX% higher than Dubya's).
i dont care what his team does. calling him egalitarian is wunderlust. he hasnt done anything yet and insisting on his future is lying to yourself. let the man be before you make names.
Our Founding Fathers had a very similar debate about how to address the President. The Vice President John Adams felt that the President should be addressed as "His Highness" to show respect. President George Washington wanted to be addressed as "Mr. President". It was a shockingly informal way to address a leader of nation, during that time. It would of been scandalous and dangerous to address the King of England as Mr. King; yet, addressing the President as Mr. President was acceptable to Americans.
the president as mr president and not fuck youl, you monkey
love how the wingnuts are saying that the al quaida message and today's attack are all about testing obama
as far as i can tell...HE HASNT BEEN SWORN IN YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I HATE THE WINGNUTS WITH A PASSIION...AND IF THERE IS A GOD, THEY WILL ALL GET FOOD POINSONING TOMMOROW AND DIE HORRIBLE, PAINFUL DEATHS
Let them live with President Barack Hussein Obama for a while. Can't really think of a better punishment.
BTW, when will my spellcheck finally recognize "Barack" or "Obama" (it seems to recognize "Hussein" just fine).
Oh, and test him (no, that isn't "bring 'em on"). This President has a brain. He'll do fine.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I may have to be the turkey tomorrow.
Have a very Thanksgiving!!
This is just so fucking cool!
:D
fuck that xoites. let me see him handing it out to people who really need it, but then, when its on rewind, it is kinda mesmerizing huh 8P
No one shows up to get food who does not need it. The "cs" in your name should be changed to "t."
Hey, note to "Crooks and Liars": OK, the Republicans were awful. Just about as bad as could be imagined.
But not all Crooks and Liars are Republican.
There are Democratic crooks and Democratic liars too.
Now that the Dems are in power, in order to deliver serious reporting, it *is* important to look into their Crookedness and Lies too. Or else you risk obsolescence.
OK... Mr. Barry "Change" Obama has appointed a whole pungent mess of stale Washington D.C. glop for every post in his whole cabinet. I mean, keeping Bush's Secretary of War? Are you serious?
Yeah, it's good he can put together a coherent sentence. Now let's see what that whole "change" thing is about.
As I see it, the country was run by corporations under Bush I, Clinton, Bush II. If we are still run by corporations, then the "change" is 100% superficial.
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