Build Our Way Out Of Depression, Dems Say
By Steve Hynd Sunday Oct 12, 2008 5:00pm
Democratic lawmakers are planning a massive infrastructure package as an economic stimulus after the November elections.
"Not only is Wall Street frozen, but Main Street is in real trouble. A stimulus aimed at Main Street makes sense," New York Sen. Charles Schumer told CNN.
He said the plan should "get into the guts of the economy" by boosting spending on infrastructure such as roads, sewer and water projects.
Former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, who served under President Bill Clinton, told CNN that an infrastructure plan that could quickly pump money into the economy was the most important action that U.S. authorities could take to help deal with the current economic crisis.
"I would put in place an infrastructure piece... bridges, water systems roads, highways, but not new projects that are going to take a long time to set up," Rubin said. "There are a lot of existing projects where states and cities are having a hard time finding a lot of financing where you could funnel that money right into existing activities where you would be able to act very very quickly."
Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, told ABC he'll be spearheading the House version of the package.
Meanwhile, Republicans are apparently set on "staying the course" on tax cuts, which have failed to prevent the economy getting into such dire straits in the first place.
Rep. Roy Blunt, the Missouri Republican who serves as House minority leader, said he would support a stimulus plan if it did not include massive public works spending and budget bailouts for states that overspent on health care and other social programs.
Not that Republican recalcitrance may have a lot of say in the matter.
Barring a dramatic change in the political landscape over the next three weeks, Democrats appear headed toward a decisive victory on Election Day that would give them broad power over the federal government.
The victory would send Barack Obama to the White House and give him larger Democratic majorities in both the House of Representatives and the Senate — and perhaps a filibuster-proof margin there.
It's all deficit spending now, of course, but as I've said before, which is better - to sit at home because you've only got $5 and a $1,000 dollar debt, throw that $5 at the debt, or to spend that $5 on getting to work and earning a paycheck? Simple "kitchen table" economics?
Crossposted from Newshoggers
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The new and improved...NEW DEAL. ( I'm all for it. )
The New Deal helped many families work their way out of poverty and debt and keep the family homes during the Great Depression, as young men sent their wages home. In my hometown, I can still see parks and bridges other CCC and WPA men built which have lasted to this day. It also helped build the character of these folks, helping them develop a good work ethic, community, pride of group accomplishment and selflessness -- what we sorely need in this polarized, me-me-me culture.
Which sounds better?
Seriously, though -- if we miss this gigantic opportunity to transform our entire economy into a healthier direction, both in terms of global-warming / energy independence aware energy sources and in terms of moving toward an economy that rewards the vast majority instead of just the plutocratic ultra-few -- then we are the biggest idiots EVER and need to just wrap it up and just let some other country take us over.
Surely the Rethugs will be up in arms about it as they still have a psychotic hatred of FDR but this is what we need. We already knew for years that our infrastructure was shit and between fixing that and supplying jobs it's a start to bring us out of the Neo-Con dark ages.
We need to build a massive green public transportation infrastructure based on light and high speed rail. This would put people back to work, expand the consumer base, open new opportunities for small and large business and reduce our dependence on fossil fuels as well as our carbon imprint.
There won't be any freakin' oil to continue our "Happy Motoring" in the not too distant future.
One of the key elements we need to focus on in this country is to update our railroad systems nationally. Right now there are many key cities that are not linked by rail, but have highway systems linking them together. No gasoline/diesel will mean no more semi-trucks bringing strawberries from California to NYC, or Barbie dolls from China to all the Walmarts.
We need to re-think the way we occupy the landscape.
Check out Jim Kunstler's "Clusterfuck Nation Chronicle" tomorrow at Kunstler.com He wrote "The Long Emergency" which deals with Peak Oil and has been a leader in new ways of thinking regarding urban design and sustainable communities. I guarantee you that tomorrow's Clusterfuck will be a doozy.
Can we stop using "Wall Street" and "Main Street" in the same sentence yet? Or not until after the election?
just curious..would this be privatised or the US hiring workers, paying them a living wage and providing benefits?
how well privatization worked in Iraq, so there you go.
Most government sponsored construction contains a prevailing wage cause which madates the contractors use union wage scale.
Hillary: America Will Rise Again "From The Ashes Of The Bushes"
In a passionate speech introducing Joe Biden at a campaign rally in Scranton, Pennsylvania this afternoon, Hillary Clinton gave a strong endorsement to Barack Obama by celebrating the end of the Bush administration, shouting:
"Make no mistake about it. We've done it before and we will do it again. America will once again rise from the ashes of the Bushes."
Astonishingly (but not really), Congress has been voting against such massive infrastructure rebuilding bills for the past 9 years or so.
When I first heard Obama talking infrastructure in America, I knew he was my man.
What is it about these asshats that they don't understand. If the consumer has jobs that pay well and a decent way of life, they make more profits because people have more money to buy their products.
Because killing countless of innocent civilians, 4500 American soldiers and depleting the US military so Dick Cheney can make 8 million in Halliburton stock is what makes more sense. Use the middle class and our resources for the benefit of the super rich and conservative corrupt elite, country last!
Because killing countless of innocent civilians, 4500 American soldiers and depleting the US military so Dick Cheney can make 8 million in Halliburton stock is what makes more sense. Use the middle class and our resources for the benefit of the super rich and conservative corrupt elite, country last!
I got it the first time.
I hate this new posting. It double posts, you have to scale back to find a previous post and responses, you can't refresh the page, putting in the number 4 every time, it's hard to follow the chain. It sucks. My 2 cents for what it's worth and I don't believe C & L put up a feedback link so who asked me anyway?
You just need to register - there's a box up at the top right of the page. Then you don't have to do math any more, get to use the edit function, italics, bold, and other good stuff, too.
WPA.
Unless we give lots of moolah directly to the wealthy people, how will the money ever trickle down to working people?
We can't ask the wealthiest Americans to support this kind of socialism - everybody benefits!
Let's just give Halliburton the contract. They won't make the mistake of hiring American workers. American workers are the most unreasonable people in the world.
They expect unreasonable benefits such as a liveable wage; they seem to assume that something like "health care" is a human right in a post modern society...has anybody considered the plight of morticians?
The last thirty years have proven that there's gold in them thar taxpayers! Take their pensions; take their jobs!
Might makes right in the Holy name of Jesus, who desires that his servants get whatever they want.
God Bless America!
Coincidentally, I responded today to a question about what I would hope to see from an ascendant progressive majority. I said I would hope for a new "New Deal" combined with a new "New Society."
Further coincidence, in a lecture I'll be delivering tomorrow one of the subtopics will be "public art." And one of the example programs will be WPA support of artists who were creating inspirational works to enrich government offices and provide encouragement to citizens visiting those offices.
Any legitimate recovery package surely must focus on restoring neglected infrastructure while providing jobs to Americans, jobs that cannot be exported. And it must run directly from public to public, directed by a government committed to the common good and forbidden from allowing vampire corporations like Blackwater, Halliburton, KBR from tapping the veins or even arteries of our national vitality before it can nourish the people and the infrastructure on which they depend.
and I've been waiting for someone more powerful than me to suggest this.
create a new "state militia" not unlike the National Guard but unbeholden to the Executive Branch's whims, and unable to be deployed overseas.
create a new system of secondary education for those unable to attend traditional universities.
create a new "green" transportation infrastructure.
create a new team of people to improve existing infrastructure.
create a new set of hubs or "tubes" - create new "internets" - and remove our energy agencies, our finance agencies, our defense agencies... from the same network that houses 4chan, lolcats, and more malicious penetrations.
and so on. and so forth.
this kind of thinking is what saved us from the last depression, and was the foundation to the great economic infrastructure we had in place in the 50's and 60's.
brilliant strategy. now lets wait to see the lobbyists kill it.
And, while we're at it, let's get rid of the Federal Reserve and have a new monetary system!
Amen to getting rid of The Federal Reserve, Amitola!!
Our Founding Fathers would be rolling in their graves if they realized what the Congress allowed to happen on that fateful night in 1913! A financial coup d' etat that is showing the fruits of it's labors right now!!!
But the Dems fall into the trap of being labeled the "tax 'n spenders."
The Repugs can stake out the high ground as the "don't tax (but just print up some more green backs that pay for wars, bailouts 'n other stuff) 'n spenders."
This is a better plan than cut taxes and wait for the trickle-down.
100 Days More. How much more damage?
I heard of a bridge in Alaska that needed some funding what was it called again? To nowhere. Oh I guess there may be higher priorities.
It seems like an obvious and workable plan--we need infrastructure improvements, and we need jobs. Wasn't that what FDR did with his Civilian Conservation Corps?
Yes, that is how my father met my mother. He worked for CCC.
What is missing in all this "stimulous" talk is any mention of the concept of labor, labor movement or how about at least the Department of Labor? Why have we not heard someone say they will return that department to labor from employer?
Just wipe ALL DEBT from the face of earth and start over.
It's all an illusion anyway.
I suggested that 2 weeks ago. Gather up all the available White Out on Earth; then, gather up all the offending financial reports and nasty bank statements - and then White Out everything!!
The whole friggin' Ponzi shceme financial system is just numbers on paper anyway - well, I guess now it's number in computers - either way, it doesn't represent anything - money is just an outdated concet.
Exactly right. Country A owes Country B and vice versa. It's a farce. Infastructure jobs? Ya right. So the taxpayer works for themselves? Won't work. Paying taxes in order to pay yourself. Why bother paying taxes at all then? Isn't it bad enough that politicians already consider themselves superior to taxpayers. Wait till they are the only employers in town.
what mcPANDER's new plan will be next week...
the pugs have copied most everything else lately...
Re: Build Our Way Out Of Depression, Dems Say
Sun, 10/12/2008 - 18:25 — ron
I got it the first time.
reply
I hate this new posting. It
Sun, 10/12/2008 - 18:35 — ruthless people (not verified)
I hate this new posting. It double posts, you have to scale back to find a previous post and responses, you can't refresh the page, putting in the number 4 every time, it's hard to follow the chain. It sucks. My 2 cents for what it's worth and I don't believe C & L put up a feedback link so who asked me anyway?
===========================================
I know it has it's drawbacks, but if you register, it's a little more tolerable.
i cringe whenever a grand plan for such rebuilding, even alternative energy, is labelled "manhatten project".
i HATE it, actually.
why not invoke the APOLLO PROJECT instead?
they reference JFK and going to the moon... and then say "manhatten"...
~shudder~
How about the Tomorrowland Project? That was my favorite part of Disneyland when I finally got to visit in 1971.
more tax cuts for the wealthy.
Why even bother asking them anymore?
Taxcuts!?!?!
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Try massive tax increases starting at zero.
We are bankrupt. When the world cuts the dollar loose we are going to be up sh!t creek without a paddle.
The money is there to balance the budget and build infrastructure. Obama would have to cut our obscenely bloated 'defense' budget.
The war profiteers won't have it.
They will put him in power, they will take him out.
If he tries to do it they will block him or they will have him out of there in a box.
It's about god damn time we returned to Keynesianism. And if we get the Apollo project for alternative energy, we won't have the Arabs mucking it up like they did with OPEC.
Our legislators wont pass any healthcare bills, or fix social security, or pass a "massive infrastructure package bill" while we continue to outsource jobs, fight an illegal/unfundable war, during a depression, while we bailout wallstreet banks, and inflate the currency, ...we just can't!
(we dont even have control of the govt)
Christmas ain't coming this year kids...
That will signal what kind of day Wall Street will have.
Any predictions?
Any Guesses?
Anybody?
This stimulus approach makes more sense than the prior stimulus, which is to put money in people's hands to buy imported goods. That last stimulus did as much, if not more, to benefit the country of manufacture as it benefited the country of consumption. Then, again in my mind, is how to pay for the stimulus? Is the largest debtor nation in the world again going to rely on foreign lenders to finance the stimulus?
If we don't have a plan to balance the budget, and instead rely on endless borrowing, foreign lenders are going to realize that the only way we can pay back the loans is to print money. They'll either demand high interest rates, or stop lending altogether. When that happens, the carnage on Wall Street will be of a greater magnitude than what we saw last week. The only way I see to get out of this situation is to live within our means. That means any stimulus program needs to come out of other areas of the budget, and the world's policeman budget would be the first place I would look.
Right now, I'm on the fence as to whether the credit crunch, aka liquidity problem is going to develop into a solvency problem, generating bankruptcies and mass layoffs.
I am glad that someone finally sees how to get our economy moving again. Give the people a job with decent wages. If you pay people with decent wages then they will go out and buy the goods and the companies will make money and propser and the country will prosper. Who ever said that you underpay the employees that the companies will prosper?
the investment into infrastructure is over due but better late than never. i know this isn't a very popular
opinion but is it wrong for us to hire u.s. citizens for these projects?
It would be really great if they really mean what they're saying. If they do let us hope they don't forget about the public schools that have been under right-wing attack lo these many years. Every major city, and possibly the minor ones too, are laying of teachers, consolidating schools and, as result seeing their class sizes balloon. Studies have shown time after time this leads to a lower quality of instruction. So as part of this jobs/stimulus package how about setting some funds aside to get those teachers working again, opening mores schools are properly outfitting the ones that still remain and lowering our class sizes. It would be of two-fold benefit. First, teachers working in, and contractors rebuilding our schools puts people to work. Second, kids get a better education that gets them further in life which is only good for the economy down the road. We do still think long-term, don't we?
-ep
Please excuse my type-0s once again.
-ep
i played in a playground with an indoor pool built during the new deal...both stand till today
that is what roosevelt did
that is what american ingenuity did
fuck the repugs who say private industry can do better
Government has proven time and time again that they/it cant do shit!
Education sucks, social security has been robbed, we conduct wars of agression overseas, and our country is trillions in debt.
If a teacher or soldier or a national guard troop is a good example of how our govt treats its employees...overworked and underpaid?
you wouldnt catch me dead working for them ...(govt)
That was Ronald Reagan. He held up his hand, took the oath of office and then proceeded to say that government wasn't the solution, it was the problem.
Then he went to work proving it. They have been doing it every since.
government has been systematically overrun with people out to destroy it....."drown it in a bathtub.
We need a good housecleaning of all the deadenders occupying government jobs and give these jobs to people who want to rebuild this nation, not tear it down.
It can be done!
this is such an offensive post. I'm sorry. but it is.
have you enjoyed watching your toddlers get sick after sucking on lead-painted teething toys (made in China) and making them sicker by giving them rat-poison-infested cough medicine (also made in China)?
do you like your mad-cow-big-macs?
are you enjoying watching your economy crater?
Alice X is right. Reagan assured us government couldn't build anything solid, then proceeded to underfund government agencies, to falsely assure us government couldn't build anything solid.
he then began making false associations. government = "public".
meanwhile... the "public" working under retired former president Carter, built some of the best, most stable, most solid, most state-of-the-art.. schools, homes, libraries...
its still being proven. time and again. Linux is a *MILLION* times more robust, and flexible, operating system than Windows or Mac OSX. do-it-yourself clone boxes built from parts run cooler and avail themselves to upgrades a million times better than the crap pushed out by Dell or Apple.
we have a robust foundation of American workers, just itching to work outside the confines of corporate bureaucracy... itching to profit, and to come home proud of tangible accomplishments.
yes - we, the people - can do better than our corporate overlords!
heard of the wpa?
did you know that roosevelt made sure everyone was paid the prevailing wage?
did you know that people gained skills that carried on through the rest of their lives
that buisnesses were created that lasted for years?
that the structures that the wpa built last till today?
so dont work....go blow your brains out
Last week I followed a link, I think it was on another blog, but could've been here. It was a link to a youtube video called The Zeitgeist Addendum. Don't know if any of you saw the Zeitgeist Movies a while back, but this is made by the same folks.
The first part is about the Fed and the monetary system and how it just benefits the bankers and makes the rest of us debt salves. The remaider is about an proposal they have for eliminating money entirely from the human experience. Too much to explain here, but it's worth your time to check it out - if nothing else it will start you thinking and maybe generate a lot of new ideas. Zeitgeist Addendum...
if this gains traction; public acceptance; how long will it be until McSlime claims the idea was stolen from him?
I have brown eyes. (See next post.)
Now I'm gettin' outta here before the blue eyes get me. (tee he he)
See next post. Then go to PBS and read about it. Very cool.
This is simply Keynesian economics. If unemployment is on the rise, it is perfectly reasonable, and possibly a really great idea, for the gov't to step in and create new jobs during an economic downturn.
Basic economic theory recommends that the government spend more money in a down cycle, even if its deficit spending, in order to stimulate the economy when it is weak. Of course, the flip side of this is that the government should cut spending, create a surplus, and save money during an economic boom (so that they can later finance the deficit spending). We saw the start of this with Clinton who did create a surplus during a boom. Sadly, somehow Republicans have the insane ability to grow the debt exponentially even during the boom years, thus making deficit spending even that much harder.
Nonetheless, is it better to have a bunch of unemployed and no debt? Or get lots of people building and have some debt? The latter is what most reasonable economists would say. Considering that many of the unemployed may be coming from the construction industry due to the collapsing residential and commercial real estate market, new construction jobs on infrastructure maybe be a very nice fit.
"Basic economic theory recommends that the government spend more money in a down cycle, even if its deficit spending, in order to stimulate the economy when it is weak. Of course, the flip side of this is that the government should cut spending, create a surplus, and save money during an economic boom"
But what happens when you haven't saved money during the boom - what happens then? In our personal lives, if we had tapped all of our credit during good times, and then needed money during a layoff, or so forth, we would be out of luck. In the case of the government, it'll initially try to borrow the money. But, the government might have to resort to printing the money, particularly if foreign lenders stop lending because they think they'll be paid back in a severely devalued dollar. The devalued dollar will devalue further, and due to lack of a credible fiscal policy, may loose reserve currency status. These circumstances may negate the benefits of deficit spending (but to be truthful, who knows). It's a brave new world if the dollar looses its reserve currency status, where the outcome is hard to predict - which is why we're not already there.
But people still succumb to the Republican line of "tax cuts" without considering where the difference is going to be made up from. In my area, a Republican is running against a Democrat, citing that Democrat's support of Clinton's tax hike as a reason to vote against the Democrat. As we all know, Clinton's tax hike led to the budget surpluses, and projections for the end of the deficits - and if we had stayed the course, instead of cutting and running with Bush, we would then have been in a superb position to finance any stimulus programs.
This type of package would contain the very same spending proposals McSame wants to cut - unless, of course it contains proposals for infrastructure spending in Iraq or corporate welfare.
I just hope that after President Obama, with our new veto-proof majority pass the infrastructure package, that they employ legal American citizens to do the 'hands on" work at a fair wage.
train them to be plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc. FREE. A government run trade school where, after training, the worker spends 2 years "giving back" to rebuild this country and then be able to get a union job with full benefits.
And the idea of working on mass transit that was mentioned is a great one. We need railways.
First off i am a certified welder and steel framer, work in construction my whole life, and lets not kid ourselves no one wants to work in any skilled trades job. train them, I am sorry I see so many kids wash out of union apprenticeships, after they realize... "O MY GOD this is work..."
Any infrastructure plan proposed by any congressman is just them looking for a way to funnel even more money from the taxpayers to their cronies. They issue contracts for shit like that, companies line up to over charge for everything because, after all, it is patriotic to get the best of the government.
Sounds pretty similar to the plan Kevin Rudd announced yesterday.
Democrats have ideas.
Republicans hate speeches.
O/B*08
Not only do we need a massive rebuilding project for the jobs that it will generate, but we just plain need a massive rebuilding job. Our bridges are falling apart, and many of them are approaching or past their useful lifespan. The next big windstorm is going to wipe out the floating bridge here in Seattle, and the ferries look like something that you would see in a third world country. (No kidding, one of the ferries that I used to ride was built in 1927; they removed it from the line last year when an inspector put a hammer through the hull.) We have a viaduct that the engineers say is most likely going to collapse, but we can't get money to fix it and people are driving on it today. (Read this report from the WSDOT and tell me that you would feel good about your loved ones driving this thing: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/viad...) This is a major road.
Americans are used to thinking that they have the most advanced country in the world, but if you spend any time at all in Europe then coming home is a bit of a shocker. Even the Canadians have surpassed us.
They need to build tens of thousands of environmentally friendly factories. They need to make them all employee owned. Just building roads and bridges is not going to move us back to a production based economy. This service based economy is the problem. Millions of Americans go to work everyday in little cubicles or flipping burgers. It's all busy work. None of it is meaningful. Our 2 biggest industries are cooking food and paperwork. No wonder our standard of living falls every year. An economy actually needs to produce things in order to support its standard of living.
I donnoo... if the gov't is constantly in debt and borrwin money from banks, that would hurt private business from getting the loans they need to create jobs in the future.
Oh, no!
We could never do anything so sensible as building up our infrastructure.
That's crazy talk, I tell ya.
Lord, can you imagine, paying people a good living to pave roads or get our bridges in shape? Next thing you know, there may be some people pulled out of slave wages working at the local burger barn.
I don't know if I can live in an America where my corporate overlords don't have full control of everyone's lives. That would be un-American.
THE SITTING DECIDERS, the notorious BUSH regime and backed by his WALL STREET backed administration; is at it again.
a) BUILDING or should I say manipulating an INTERNATIONAL CONSENSUS with the help of MEDIA backed propaganda that is "selling" a PSYCHOLOGY of CONFIDENCE to the gullible battered market and investors, that somehow ALL of this inevibitably precipitous (steep downfall) of credit crisis and loss of investment value will somehow REVERSE itself out of the abyss by simply saying "WE WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN and USE EVERY AVAILABLE TOOL AT OUR DISPOSAL" will magically RESTORE market's CONFIDENCE. WHEN TRUST AND CREDIBILITY is LOST; (and in this case; the credibility of BUSH and his ADMINISTRATION and COHORTS) it is LOST. It would be BEST to remove such administration or WAIT until they are GONE and in the PAST before market will BEGIN TO GAIN CONFIDENCE.
FOR ANYONE to THINK that this administration can accomplish such goal, LATE IN THE GAME.....OTHERWISE....is on the contrary....VERY NAIVE.
CONGRESS gave them a $700 billion POWER and $85 billion to AIG; WHILE BARNEY FRANKS is being scrutinized by ethics due to CONFLICT-OF-INTEREST issues linked to HIS long-time PARTNER connected to Fannie May and Freddie Mac mortgage scandals.
WHILE PELOSI wasted the opportunity to END the lawlessness of BUSH PRESIDENCY by taking IMPEACHMENT "OFF-the-table" supported by her cohort Rahm Emanuel.
AMERICAN HAS BEEN SWINDLED and while the immenent collapse of WORLD ECONOMY is at it's BRINK.
This GOVERNMENT continue to loot and exploit the WORLD COMMUNITY at it's most FRAGILE TIME IN OUR HISTORY. THE EMPERORS and their FRIENDS has NO CONSCIENCE. THAT HEARTLESS has COST THE PUBLIC TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of diminished WEALTH and counting.
STABILIZING the ECONOMY will NOT BE ACCOMPLISHED until this ADMINISTRATION is SECURED BY THE 2008, NOVEMBER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
IF YOU AMERICA, ALLOW THE MEDIA TO INJECT a dose of public MANIPULATION and BUY INTO THIS DECEPTION; then YOU DESERVE a BIGGER LOSS that will follow from such a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.
The problem is fiat currency and fractional reserve banking, the system is flawed. Until this nation gets on a true 1 for 1 gold standard we will always have these problems. Not a 40% gold exchange bogus gold standard like we had in the 30's but a true gold standard.
We borrow every dollar into existence and we pay debt on every dollar created since 1914 and pay interest on it. When the FED drops a half point it is this interest they are dropping or raising. This is a retarded on a biblical level, every fiat currency in history has failed, ALL OF THEM. It is mathematically impossible to pay the national debt down because of this. Our government created income taxes to pay the interest.
This nation has better grasp this truth or we are screwed for now and doomed to repeat this mistake again and again. Ron Paul was 100% correct on this point, the constitution needs to be followed. The Constitution only provides for the US treasury to coin gold or silver and all payments can be settled with raw gold and silver, it prohibited creating notes of credit (a.k.a. Federal Reserve notes). The FED is not constitutional and must be abolished; the people do not need a central bank controlling our government.
Remember all fiat currencies throughout history have failed, all of them.
Now you know why people like Ron Paul never get elected. If we did get rid of the federal reserve the Neo-Cons would only turn around and scare the sheep and cattle on wall street and say it is necessary to keep the FED.
To see a bunch of desk jockeys out on the road with shovels in their hand
The devil will be in the details.
So please keep a very wary eye on Robert Rubin, since he was one of the architects, along with Greenspan and Summers, of the present unregulated derivatives bubble.
Check it out.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/DeS...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/business/ec...
We have a structural problem and it's not INFRAstructural. If the gov't borrows money from China to create jobs, a chunk of those paychecks goes back to China for cheap thrills and we end up paying China interest on the paychecks (and the stuff in our landfills). Moreover, around here at least, most of the INFRAstructure work apparently is performed by illegal aliens: a chunk of their paychecks goes to Mexico or wherever, so we the taxpayers would then be paying interest to the Chinese for the greater good of Mexico.
Our structural problem lies in the fact that many American jobs don't really produce anything of value, anything we can export (except arms and airplanes). We sit at computers, shuffling bytes. We sit around conference tables, shuffling printouts. We sit in showroom cubicles, shuffling through a Rolodex. We flip burgers. We flip real estate. We talk and talk and talk.
The only reason the whole charade hasn't collapsed already is foreigners still accept our paper as money. If they stop doing that, Katy bar the door.
It's time for a paradigm shift: any suggestions?
This isn't the 1930's. I hate to say it but, most people these days (if you are under 40 yrs. of age) don't know what a real 'hard' days work is anymore. Folks don't know how to do the simplest things for themselves like we did way back when. We're all so used to cooking premade meals in the microwave and buying cheap goods manufactured in China. Speaking of manufacturing, this country actually had a strong manufacturing base then. Now it's practically nonexistant. Most of our factories are either vacant and deteriorating or have been torn down and replaced with Malls and parking lots Most of our raw manufacturing materials come from you know where...China.
First thing is to get off this 'global' credit based economy crap, abolish the Federal Reserve and start using 'real' money that's backed with something real and tangible...like gold (thanx VegasRage). Yeah it's damn good idea, but is the AmeriKa of today up to the challenge?
For $850 Billion...We could have completely re-built our rail system with high speed electric trains.. providing million of jobs and spawning news industries like A UPS or FedEx. Duhhhh?
Well it worked in the 1930s, why wouldn't it work again?
Is that the best the Democrats can do. hell, the Republicans scare me but Obama and his crew with their wizard's hats from which they can always pull another bunch of cliches scare me a lot more.
Wow, this sounds like New Deal '08. That's really awesome. The next administration might be a very historic one in that regard.
About time!
Y'all need to give up the gold standard idea. It's toxic, benefiting only the wealthy. People who work for a living can tolerate a little inflation because their paychecks go up. The populists of the early 20th century talked about how the farmer and the working man were "crucified on a cross of gold." That's because gold's in limited supply, it can't expand with the economy so it acts like a brake on growth. Look at it this way: as long as the population is increasing, you need new money to pay the new workers entering the workforce. If the money base is fixed, which is the idea behind gold, then the available pool of money per worker shrinks over time. This is what causes recessions and depressions. Roosevelt took gold out of circulation in the '30s precisely because it was hampering recovery from the Depression. Gold is a drag.
As for Fed, agree that it has abused its trust. However, what is the alternative? After all, it is in the bankers' interest to have a stable economy so that loans get repaid. Would you give the power to create money to the politicians? Might as well move to Zimbabwe.
We need to reform our monetary system. The debt-based system is unsustainable.
I think everyone should look into the type of system advocated by Richard C. Cook and others.
An Emergency Program of Monetary Reform for the United States
and
Monetary Reform and How a National Monetary System Should Work
Thanks for posting that link. I had heard of this theory, but had not found an explanation as lucid as Mr Cook's.
Reform is needed, and something along the lines of "social credit" might fill the bill. Then again, aside from the inflation argument which Mr Cook debunks (I guess), there's the so-called "moral hazard": if people don't have to work, many won't; if there are too many slackers, the productivity gap disappears and with it, the social dividend.
One can also question the viability of a system based on the accuracy of government statistics. Take Social Security, for example. Since it's indexed to inflation, the government under-reports the CPI to keep the payout down. (A sad commentary on the state of our so-called democracy.) The figures for GDP and national income are, fundamentally, estimates. Yet the social credit would be based on these.
A simpler way to close the gap between income and output might be raising the minimum wage substantially while cutting taxes on the middle class. As a package deal, the proposal might get through as the howling from the businessmen would be drowned out by the hurrahs of the much more numerous working poor. We could also try taxing the 1% who control 60% of the nation's wealth to reduce the national debt, but we'd probably have to invade Abu Dhabi to chase them down. :-)
Ah there they go again down at the GOP HQ. They want to continue tax relief for the wealthy top 1% of Americans and want to watch it trickle down to you and me. Worse ... They want more tax cuts for corporations that manufacture and send our jobs overseas.
I just wish that one of these tax reduction packages would eliminate "death" taxes (Estate Taxes) on farmers whose farm value is under $3,000,000 dollars. That would be farms of 100 acres that are being bought up by developers paying over $30,000 per acre. It is happening all across America and the children cannot afford to keep the farm in the family. That is sad!!!
This disgusted Republican is voting for Obama and I could give a damn less what color he is.
The democrats created and nurtured the financial crisis through their home ownership entitlement program. Obama was right in the middle of it in CHicago, pushing lending institutions to lend to unqualified borrowers. $700B in the U.S. and untold billions worldwide so far is just the tip of iceberg. The damage done by the Democratic/Obama financial entitlement effort already exceeds the impact of the Afghan and Iraq wars by more than 10 times with no end in sight. If elected, Obama will generate countless give-aways to the "entitled" and rob the responsible Americans blind while he sits on his wealth. NObama, no-way, not now, and not ever. I for one will only buy necessities and only those made in America by 100% American workers.
All the bad subprime loans could have been "rescued" for about $100 billion. They were the first domino, but not the biggest by a long shot. ... You obviously don't like Democrats, but please don't forget, the GOP has controlled either the executive or the Congress or BOTH since 1980. The only time the budget was under control was under Clinton. The problem facing our nation is that both parties are working for the "money power" as it was called in the 19th century, not the taxpayers.
Your mom always told you don't spend more then you have and if you don't have don't put it on credit because somebody has to pay it back.
Great idea. Although we need to make sure that these programs aren't larded up with pork.
Financial Crises and the Way to Recovery
The term “shocking” can’t even come close to describe the severity of the financial crises that we are faced with. According to Barack Obama, the only way we can get out of this mess is for this country to adapt socialistic values and enforce socialism by gaining control of all three branches of government. I’m sure that the mountain of money his campaign has collected from domestic and foreign donors, names the Obama campaign won’t disclose, will be used for that purpose. As soon as total control is gained, organizations like ACORN will have a green light to further abuse the law to suppress free speech, control the outcomes of elections and brain wash children in schools to believe that socialism is the answer to all of our problems. With total control of the government, and help from people like Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright and Antoin Rezko, who will probably be pardoned, achieving the ultimate goal, “a life of sexual confusion and moral collapse” will become a strong possibility.
The proof that socialism, or spreading the wealth around does not work can be seen by examining ACORN and its accomplishments by manipulating bancs to make loans to minorities with bad credit. By using charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansions, ACORN and Obama already contributed to the crises we are in today and finding new ways to distribute the wealth will only make the situation much worse. His idea to put a three-month moratorium on foreclosures will further weaken the already fragile banking industry and only benefit delinquent homeowners by allowing them to live rent-free.
In order for our economy to start prospering again, we first need to elect an honest leader who is determined to stamp out the corruption in government and to stop the leftist movement from destroying the middle class. The hard working people can no longer be expected to keep giving until they themselves have nothing left to give.
Cybercorrespondent
http://cybercorrespondent.blogspot.com
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